Guild Wars 2

Alright this is one of those situations which really has to be addressed.

Sure it is nice to be able to kick people from a party, but please change the functionality a bit so that a reason has to be specified and leave the party chat open so that the people kicked can actually address the issue if there is a case of abuse.

I see people getting kicked from parties all the time by others who think they “play wrong” because this or that ability was not used in a specific fight.

Now luckily I am not on the receiving end of this in general, and I will often vote against a kick because someone is trying to play the game the way they want to play it and really doing their best to contribute to the group.

What really gets to me is this silly attitude that you have to play your class in a very specific manner and use a specific skill set for every encounter, and if you somehow fail to do this, you are a bad player and deserves to be kicked.

This rant is a result of being on the receiving end recently, what happened is this:

Person a and b advertises for prople for fractal lv 38 (I am lv 41, and play guardian) I join this group along with a very close friend of mine, and we start off fine killing stuff, moving to the second fractal.

Person c also joins.

On an encounter in the second fractal person a and b are busy doing what person a and b wants to do, and not very communicative in general, then after I fall, and my friend falls, only person c has the sense to contribute to group dynamics and get us up again.

Now after the encounter person a and b really quickly kicks my friend and myself from the group, because apparently I am playing Guardian wrong….

Now let me get this straight, I am not a newbie guardian, and I do change skills as needed, how ever some people seem to think that all they have to do is run around hitting stuff, while they expect the guardian to keep them alive, hit stuff and keep himself alive on top.

This I am just going to do damage and if I die it is the guardians fault attitude stinks and either people need to change mentality, which I have no hope for, or the kick option needs to be improved to require at least 50% in favor of kicking, which means in a group of 5 it would take 3 votes to kick someone, not just 2.

I don’t really want to play with people of this attitude at any rate, but it would be a benefit to not allow this behavior, as they would simply get other people to help them complete what you already contributed to, force them to rage quit instead, so they actually also stand to lose something.

I can’t even be sure that they kicked because of mistakes, or if they simply had two other guild mates they would rather take with them, in effect taking advantage of me and my friend until we were not needed any longer.

No secret that I really hate shatter mesmers in PvE – worse still shatter mesmers in lvl 50 fracts with no Feedback. Some builds really cannot be justified especially in the harder dungeons.

Didnt kick the guy but I just RQed the pug because of this guy and another player who insisted mesmer bring DPS when party already has 4 warriors.

The kick function is fine – if people don’t want to play with you it’s their right to do so.

If you don’t want to lose the time you’ve invested in content then be the instance opener and all your troubles are fixed.

Ideally – play with guildies or people you know.

Harper.4173:

The kick function is fine – if people don’t want to play with you it’s their right to do so.

If you don’t want to lose the time you’ve invested in content then be the instance opener and all your troubles are fixed.

Ideally – play with guildies or people you know.

Not an option unless u belong to a large guild that run dungeons on fixed schedules. Anet should reward PUGing instead. And its good for people complaining GW2 being too easy – you should be able to carry a mediocre PUG to success then and enjoy the challenge in doing so.

Harper.4173:

The kick function is fine – if people don’t want to play with you it’s their right to do so.

If you don’t want to lose the time you’ve invested in content then be the instance opener and all your troubles are fixed.

Ideally – play with guildies or people you know.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/What-s-wrong-with-people/page/2#post4240883

As you can clearly see from this topic the function is not fine.

Jeskelech.4152:

Harper.4173:

The kick function is fine – if people don’t want to play with you it’s their right to do so.

If you don’t want to lose the time you’ve invested in content then be the instance opener and all your troubles are fixed.

Ideally – play with guildies or people you know.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/What-s-wrong-with-people/page/2#post4240883

As you can clearly see from this topic the function is not fine.

Not a single version of any kind of vote kick system is ever going to be fine, it’s the reality of the situation that no matter how it’s implemented there will be abuse and there will be excessive whining about it.

It doesn’t matter if you need many votes to kick, few votes to kick or just allow certain people to kick or no kicking at all.
Someone out there, alone or in a group, will abuse it to annoy people.

The system as is in GW2 is fine, it’s not perfect but it’s the best compromise you can get in a vote kick system without making it a complicated convoluted mess.

Harper.4173:

The kick function is fine – if people don’t want to play with you it’s their right to do so.

If you don’t want to lose the time you’ve invested in content then be the instance opener and all your troubles are fixed.

Ideally – play with guildies or people you know.

If people don’t want to play with you its their right, where I 100% agree with you on this, its no ok to USE someone to get threw a high level fractal or do a dungeon, then decide on the final boss you don’t want to play with them no longer, and kick them out, then sell the path/fractal or get a buddy who has just logged on in,

Sadly as broken as it is, I don’t know how they can fix it, clearly when they designed this feature and it was “tested” everyone on the dev team got along, and they just imagined that everyone in game will get along.

Ok I Did It.2854:

Sadly as broken as it is, I don’t know how they can fix it, clearly when they designed this feature and it was “tested” everyone on the dev team got along, and they just imagined that everyone in game will get along.

There can be a possible solution be removing the idea of “instance owner” completely and implementing AI to take control over disconnected player’s characters. Here’s a scenario showcasing the suggestion:

Player 1 opened instance and invited others but gets kicked out for whatever reason. Rather than everyone getting ejected, player 1’s instance is simply separated from the rest of the party. Player 1’s party now consists of 4 other characters… controlled by AI…signified by their names changing from xyz to (AI)xyz in party log with gear/skills/traits etc remaining identical. Same thing in the other instance… player 1’s character will have a name change and be controlled by computer.

This way, both parties can either choose to continue on with their new robotic companion or have it replaced with someone else. Additionally, characters wont just stop and stay still anymore whenever connection is interrupted; party can continue moving forward and player experiencing problems can join back in utilizing re-connect feature. Name change will alert others to what transpired and from there they can either wait or continue or replace. AI companions can be programmed to follow a single person (something like a ranger’s pet or henchmen from GW1).

I’m sure someone somewhere already did suggest this earlier. Nor is this some perfect or original idea. It can still be abused by joining someone much farther into instance and force/kick but considering whats currently happening, its a little better. Potential griefing can be hindered somewhat by requiring more votes. Dungeon runners can invite players one at a time to safely accept payment or pay before join.

It will not alienate the community as only way to acquire non-human party members will be via disconnect and since their attributes cannot be changed/controlled, it will be somewhat of a disadvantage.

Harper.4173:

The kick function is fine – if people don’t want to play with you it’s their right to do so.

If you don’t want to lose the time you’ve invested in content then be the instance opener and all your troubles are fixed.

Ideally – play with guildies or people you know.

I agree that people have the right to play with who they desire — but the kick function is blatantly open to abuse. The people doing the kicking could also be playing with guild members or people on friends’ list. They don’t own the PuG function any more than any other demographic. PuGging is a convenience and a privilege, it is not a right.

I suppose they could improve it so that it automatically kicks people who aren’t in your guild right before the final boss.

I experienced this for the first time just last night. I was running S/F on my Mesmer in AC, and I was kicked without warning because I “wasn’t stacking tight enough.”

There could implant a system where :
If you participate in 5 istances in the row at that week , and you havent voted for a person to kick from the group , you get 50 points of ‘’Goodstanding Citizen’’ coins (max 150 points per week) . You need 600 to unlock a specific set or reward you for 300 gems .
Also on the LFG tab you see in purple colors the ppl that voted to kick you from the group from the last 3-4 weeks (so from now on you avoid them and dont join their party) .

Edit: In the other hard , too many kicks may reduce to MF > then you gold you take from the istance-boses > then you cant vote to kick a players for the next 3 weeks (something like the forums privilages)

Edit2: If you dont like the backfire , then YOU MUST create a full party of your guild , leaving aside noobs from joining your party

Edit3: Theres still the problems with Afkers ….
They can easily create an afk-system or too many reports of afks can lead to banned account

If kicking becomes backfiring, trolls will abuse that to intentionally punish you.

The current system is fine. If you get kicked often, make sure that you are the instance owner, by entering the instance and then listing for LFG.

No player with a sane mind will kick the instance owner, no matter what.

In my opinion, the LFG Tool is completely inappropriate for dungeons. “If you don’t like it, start your own group” is the completely wrong paradigm.

• There should be no such thing as a “dungeon opener” or an entitled feeling like you “own” a dungeon and everyone else joined “your” group.
• There should not be an opportunity to ascribe comments or demands to a dungeon in the LFG listing. There should not even be an LFG listing, where you choose a party — you should blindly queue for a random party, like in most other MMOs. “5k AP zerker warrior only” is not a request that deserves to be recognized or enforced
• There should be no one who is immune from being kicked. Anyone should be able to be removed from the group, as long as 4 out of 5 group members agree. If you can’t come to a consensus about whether an individual is causing a problem, then you probably don’t have a good reason to kick in the first place. Maybe an exception can be made if other players are left AFK for a while.
• There is no reason to wipe the party chat log after you leave a group or are kicked. That makes no sense at all, and makes it a lot harder to report legit cases of griefing, harassment, offensive language, etc.

They can start with something really simple. Make the votes needed for kicking proportional to the players in the party. Something like this :
- To kick someone out from full party- 3 instead of 2 ;
- To kick someone out from 4/5 – 2 party members have to vote it;
- To kick someone out from 3/5 – still 2 people ;
- Last- kick each other ;

Usually when someone is harassing, not playing good enough for the group standards they cripple the group as a whole so if someone is really a pain in the kitten then everyone else just kicks him off and party continues normally.

Right now the system allows a lot of griefing to be done :
1. Guild members or people playing together play with 3 people to progress the dungeon/ fractal and then with coordination they can kick out quickly everyone else to add friends/ sell the path.
2. I don’t want to get into a discussion of the moral dilemma "Should there be dungeon paths sellers and if that is okay? " , but I will say this- someone doing it properly without exploits has the full right to sell the dungeon path to someone that only needs it for tokens/ progression to the “Dungeon master” title or quick daily run. Someone else coming in and kicking that said person just to ruin their effort is just pathetic and deserves to be punished.
3. If 2 people don’t like you for some reason they get to kick you out and you lose all progression. What happens if a third person is owner, then 2 guildies decide that you aren’t cool/ good enough to play with them and they kick you out? Third person might or might not keep playing but you lose all progression.

Also to add to things I would like to see something like this :

Let’s say you do play and you get kicked for some reason or you disconnect and you can’t get back on time. Dungeons/ fractals should be able to have some sorf of a save button in that case so you can just go back to where you stopped at. That would only be for the new instance owner. That way people don’t lose everything and it doesn’t punish as much players that can’t continue due to real life, connection issues or the above scenarios of 2 people taking over the instance sort to speak.

Just my two cents.

And to add to things- Why the flying kitten party chat gets removed? There is no way I can know the names of the players if I get kicked out for a reason i find reportable… Makes no sense to me, sorry Anet….

Fyrebrand.4859:

In my opinion, the LFG Tool is completely inappropriate for dungeons. “If you don’t like it, start your own group” is the completely wrong paradigm.

• There should be no such thing as a “dungeon opener” or an entitled feeling like you “own” a dungeon and everyone else joined “your” group.
• There should not be an opportunity to ascribe comments or demands to a dungeon in the LFG listing. There should not even be an LFG listing, where you choose a party — you should blindly queue for a random party, like in most other MMOs. “5k AP zerker warrior only” is not a request that deserves to be recognized or enforced
• There should be no one who is immune from being kicked. Anyone should be able to be removed from the group, as long as 4 out of 5 group members agree. If you can’t come to a consensus about whether an individual is causing a problem, then you probably don’t have a good reason to kick in the first place. Maybe an exception can be made if other players are left AFK for a while.
• There is no reason to wipe the party chat log after you leave a group or are kicked. That makes no sense at all, and makes it a lot harder to report legit cases of griefing, harassment, offensive language, etc.

Quoted for emphasis. Instance ownership is silly design. Every other self respecting game does it better. Anyone (and I do mean anyone) who wants a specific type of group should be required to assume kittening responsibility for their desires and build a flipping friends’ list with like-minded people.

Fyrebrand.4859:

In my opinion, the LFG Tool is completely inappropriate for dungeons. “If you don’t like it, start your own group” is the completely wrong paradigm.

• There should be no such thing as a “dungeon opener” or an entitled feeling like you “own” a dungeon and everyone else joined “your” group.
• There should not be an opportunity to ascribe comments or demands to a dungeon in the LFG listing. There should not even be an LFG listing, where you choose a party — you should blindly queue for a random party, like in most other MMOs. “5k AP zerker warrior only” is not a request that deserves to be recognized or enforced
• There should be no one who is immune from being kicked. Anyone should be able to be removed from the group, as long as 4 out of 5 group members agree. If you can’t come to a consensus about whether an individual is causing a problem, then you probably don’t have a good reason to kick in the first place. Maybe an exception can be made if other players are left AFK for a while.
• There is no reason to wipe the party chat log after you leave a group or are kicked. That makes no sense at all, and makes it a lot harder to report legit cases of griefing, harassment, offensive language, etc.

Thank you Fyrebrand,

For dissecting my thoughts and putting them down so easily readable and right to the point.

Many answers seem to be on the “deal with it” line, how ever that is never even close to constructive.

The majority consensus is definitely a must have as well as the removal of the instance owner as there is nothing at this time preventing the instance owner from simply quitting and leaving everyone else high and dry.

Ettanin.8271:

If kicking becomes backfiring, trolls will abuse that to intentionally punish you.

When you kick some and join your istance over and over again ?
Then he cannon join the same istance-leader party

When he joins and he sais : ‘’Report me i am going afk’’ ?
Simple report it and bann his account > he will forced to buy a new 1 (if the anti-afkmechanic doesnt work)

Edit : Yeah i see the problem with keep pulling mobs to mess up the istance …. sorry …
He can be reported for exploit (if more that 15 ppl report him for that reason) >bann … but … too much hassle for the devs…..

Khal Drogo.9631:

Harper.4173:

The kick function is fine – if people don’t want to play with you it’s their right to do so.

If you don’t want to lose the time you’ve invested in content then be the instance opener and all your troubles are fixed.

Ideally – play with guildies or people you know.

Not an option unless u belong to a large guild that run dungeons on fixed schedules. Anet should reward PUGing instead. And its good for people complaining GW2 being too easy – you should be able to carry a mediocre PUG to success then and enjoy the challenge in doing so.

I only enjoy challenge that’s also rewarded equitably. It’s not my job to carry PUGs in dungeons.
I’ll carry random pugs when they decide to pay 1-2 gold each at the end of the dungeon.
If you’re not party of a guild that runs dungeons on fixed schedules maybe you should try joining one.
Or just find people that are good and just run with them.
Make your own LFG by adding skilled friends.

Welcome to GW2, where new players get punished for being new. All it takes is 2 people to kick, and the moron who decided that was a good thing should never design again. It should require 4 out of 5 people, no exception. 2 years later, and Anet hasn’t fixed it, or addressed it as an issue (from what i know). Also, the group is dependent on the person who starts the dungeon, because they leave, everyone else gets kicked. Again, who at Anet designed this crap? It’s no wonder that GW2’s dungeons are regarded as some of the worst experiences in MMOs.

Just bring back the GW1 instancing of dungeons, and everything gets solved. With every update, ANET is taking step backwards in the core issues.

Harper.4173:

The kick function is fine – if people don’t want to play with you it’s their right to do so.

If you don’t want to lose the time you’ve invested in content then be the instance opener and all your troubles are fixed.

Ideally – play with guildies or people you know.

No, it’s not fine. If people don’t like the group, they can leave and start their own. They shouldn’t be allowed to kick anyone unless they are the group leader. All it takes is 2 people to kick everyone out, which is actually griefing.

What about a invisible system that can track ppl (if they are in the friendlist-or have the same guild(even if they are not representing it now)) ?

2 guild members/friends that tries to kick 2 randoms = HUGE backfire
2 guild member + 1 random = small back fire for the guild /no punish for the random-for the first 5 times per day
1 guild member + 1 random = no punishment for both -for the first 5 times per day
2 random ppl , that tries to kick a random = no backfire -for the first 5 times per day

Also create a ‘’Instance Block ’’ list , where you can store 20 trolls names (ppl that you jugde are really troll) and by voting to kick them you dont EVER VER EVER get a punishment backfire.

If you need more space you have to manually remove a ‘’troll name’’ and replace it with an other (it need 1 hour to be autorized by the system – so you dont : remove a person > add the newer name to the ‘’istance blocked’’ > then kick him .

And the 15 top ‘’charts of trolls players ’’ each week will be reviewed by the company

Ok I Did It.2854:

Harper.4173:

The kick function is fine – if people don’t want to play with you it’s their right to do so.

If you don’t want to lose the time you’ve invested in content then be the instance opener and all your troubles are fixed.

Ideally – play with guildies or people you know.

If people don’t want to play with you its their right, where I 100% agree with you on this, its no ok to USE someone to get threw a high level fractal or do a dungeon, then decide on the final boss you don’t want to play with them no longer, and kick them out, then sell the path/fractal or get a buddy who has just logged on in,

Sadly as broken as it is, I don’t know how they can fix it, clearly when they designed this feature and it was “tested” everyone on the dev team got along, and they just imagined that everyone in game will get along.

That’s fair and true. However i’ve had situations in which we carried people through all 3 fractals but them not being up to snuff made it impossible to progress further.
We had no choice.

I’ve also had situations in which it was possible to temporarily replace them with a friend and reinvite them before the final reward.

Harper.4173:

Ok I Did It.2854:

Harper.4173:

The kick function is fine – if people don’t want to play with you it’s their right to do so.

If you don’t want to lose the time you’ve invested in content then be the instance opener and all your troubles are fixed.

Ideally – play with guildies or people you know.

If people don’t want to play with you its their right, where I 100% agree with you on this, its no ok to USE someone to get threw a high level fractal or do a dungeon, then decide on the final boss you don’t want to play with them no longer, and kick them out, then sell the path/fractal or get a buddy who has just logged on in,

Sadly as broken as it is, I don’t know how they can fix it, clearly when they designed this feature and it was “tested” everyone on the dev team got along, and they just imagined that everyone in game will get along.

That’s fair and true. However i’ve had situations in which we carried people through all 3 fractals but them not being up to snuff made it impossible to progress further.
We had no choice.

I’ve also had situations in which it was possible to temporarily replace them with a friend and reinvite them before the final reward.

How are you so sure that you and your buddies carried the pug through the early fractals? And even if you did, what gives you the right to kick them for the final fractal (even if it’s Mai Trin)?

By kicking a pug, you have essentially proved that you are a bad player yourself and that you need to be carried by others. Remember that this game has reached a stage where the really skilled players can do the hardest content solo (even Mai Trin at level 50)

In other words, use the opportunity of a weak pug as an excuse to push yourself even harder and show how it’s done. Everyone was bad at this game at one time, so pass on the torch of pro skills if you have one.

Good karma may not bring good rewards, but it does feel good when doing the right thing.

mage.3570:

Harper.4173:

Ok I Did It.2854:

Harper.4173:

The kick function is fine – if people don’t want to play with you it’s their right to do so.

If you don’t want to lose the time you’ve invested in content then be the instance opener and all your troubles are fixed.

Ideally – play with guildies or people you know.

If people don’t want to play with you its their right, where I 100% agree with you on this, its no ok to USE someone to get threw a high level fractal or do a dungeon, then decide on the final boss you don’t want to play with them no longer, and kick them out, then sell the path/fractal or get a buddy who has just logged on in,

Sadly as broken as it is, I don’t know how they can fix it, clearly when they designed this feature and it was “tested” everyone on the dev team got along, and they just imagined that everyone in game will get along.

That’s fair and true. However i’ve had situations in which we carried people through all 3 fractals but them not being up to snuff made it impossible to progress further.
We had no choice.

I’ve also had situations in which it was possible to temporarily replace them with a friend and reinvite them before the final reward.

How are you so sure that you and your buddies carried the pug through the early fractals? And even if you did, what gives you the right to kick them for the final fractal (even if it’s Mai Trin)?

By kicking a pug, you have essentially proved that you are a bad player yourself and that you need to be carried by others. Remember that this game has reached a stage where the really skilled players can do the hardest content solo (even Mai Trin at level 50)

He died on almost every encounter. Normal mobs killed him. There was literally no boss fight where he wasn’t dead ( not downed).

That’s how I know we carried him.

Also what gives me the right?
If we’ve tried it 4-5 times and can’t progress because he’s not pulling his weight then yes – a kick is needed. I have the right to play with whomever I want.
In this case – he didn’t participate at all and also wouldn’t listen not only not helping but impeding our progress.

By kicking a pug I’ve proven I don’t have infinite patience.
It has nothing to do with being carried – the moment we got a decent 5th person we all breezed right on through the content.

I agree that the really skilled players can do really amazing stuff – but I don’t care. I’m here for fast rewards and 5 really skilled players will always get rewards faster than less than 5 really skilled players.
It’s that simple.

If I wanted to prove something by soloing I would probably sell dungeons/fractals. I don’t. I want my rewards fast and clean.

Also – if kicking pugs is an example of “being bad” how about the pug that we had to kick in COF P1 because he could not be made to understand to stay near one of the braziers so the door would open?

There was no way we could progress without him doing it -and for a good 5 minutes despite us writing and explaining he would not do it.

Does that mean we’re bad? Did the content prove that we are unskilled?

vote must change to 3 make no mistake about it.
party chat must remain visible for like 20min after members left the party so people can report abuse of all kind including verbal.
this will solve many issues.
that being said.. anet is a lazy company. they are slow to address many thing from bug fix to quality of life improvement, so if you are playing this game deal with it.
it has no sub fee anyways so who cares.

Harper.4173:

The kick function is fine – if people don’t want to play with you it’s their right to do so.

If you don’t want to lose the time you’ve invested in content then be the instance opener and all your troubles are fixed.

Ideally – play with guildies or people you know.

I don’t know if i have ever been kicked but I can say that I have seen the instance owners kicked on multiple occasions towards the end of dungeons for no reason whatsoever. A lot of progress lost.

However, I don’t see this at all as a major issue. Everyone that is having trouble with being kicked from groups, you need to: A. join guilds and B. make friends. Being a social person and player will get you far in MMO’s. If your guild isn’t reliable for dungeons then you need to join a different guild. You can join up to 5 at a time. There are plenty of great guilds out there that do not require 100% representation.

If you need a guild that does PVE, PVP, and WvW regularly then feel free to whisper me in game and we can talk. If you are a begger, spammer, anti-social, or selfish then you should not message anyone and should play First Person Shooters or Offline Games.

mage.3570:

How are you so sure that you and your buddies carried the pug through the early fractals? And even if you did, what gives you the right to kick them for the final fractal (even if it’s Mai Trin)?

By kicking a pug, you have essentially proved that you are a bad player yourself and that you need to be carried by others. Remember that this game has reached a stage where the really skilled players can do the hardest content solo (even Mai Trin at level 50)

That is after many tries. I am not sure if bosses scale to the number of players; even they didn’t other teammates positioning would affect the boss’s attacks and even the lag of the instance itself.

Even in a guild, everyone has different schedules and want to run different dungeons at different times. And most guilds need a high rep percentage. Everyone says to build a friend list – how do u build a friend list (or indeed a block list) based on non troll/stupid/hyper elitist dungeon PvErs if you don’t PUG in the first place?

On the other hand helpful guildies are more than willing to help people to get “dungeon master”. A shoutout would usually do the job; if not an appointment.

Ok I Did It.2854:

Harper.4173:

The kick function is fine – if people don’t want to play with you it’s their right to do so.

If you don’t want to lose the time you’ve invested in content then be the instance opener and all your troubles are fixed.

Ideally – play with guildies or people you know.

If people don’t want to play with you its their right, where I 100% agree with you on this, its no ok to USE someone to get threw a high level fractal or do a dungeon, then decide on the final boss you don’t want to play with them no longer, and kick them out, then sell the path/fractal or get a buddy who has just logged on in,

Sadly as broken as it is, I don’t know how they can fix it, clearly when they designed this feature and it was “tested” everyone on the dev team got along, and they just imagined that everyone in game will get along.

Here’s how u can fix it. The person who creates the group is the party leader, full stop. That leader is marked somehow in the group for eg: has an asterisk against his portrait so everyone knows who the leader is. The only person who has the right to kick anyone is the leader. if you don’t like the leader then leave the group. If the leader gets dc.d the leadership automatically goes to the next most senior player in the group, ie: one that got invited first by the leader.

Since the abuse of kicking people at the final boss battles seems rife in this game, the party leader cannot kick anyone during the boss fight and till everyone loots their chest. Simple isn’kitten

Tiger Ashante.1792:

Here’s how u can fix it. The person who creates the group is the party leader, full stop. That leader is marked somehow in the group for eg: has an asterisk against his portrait so everyone knows who the leader is. The only person who has the right to kick anyone is the leader. if you don’t like the leader then leave the group. If the leader gets dc.d the leadership automatically goes to the next most senior player in the group, ie: one that got invited first by the leader.

Since the abuse of kicking people at the final boss battles seems rife in this game, the party leader cannot kick anyone during the boss fight and till everyone loots their chest. Simple isn’kitten

You are being constructive at least, but this is quite possibly the worst solution you could come up with, since this allows the party leader to kick everyone at any time he pleases, only to proceed with other people as he pleases.

A system like this would be even more open to abuse than the current one.

mage.3570:

In other words, use the opportunity of a weak pug as an excuse to push yourself even harder and show how it’s done. Everyone was bad at this game at one time, so pass on the torch of pro skills if you have one.

Good karma may not bring good rewards, but it does feel good when doing the right thing.

I like the way you think, as stated in my original post I very rarely support a kick, unless it is really bad, and the one time I felt like kicking someone on the Arch Diviner, we talked to him after and explained about AR, he was not happy about it, but he decided to leave on his own, after he realized there was no way the group could finish with him.

@Harper

If someone is really that bad it should not be a problem to get majority of group support to kick them out.

This topic is not about making kicking impossible, but about how the system can be improved in order to minimize abuse.

As it is now, if two guildies are trying to invite people to a PUG you have to think twice before joining, as it is very easy for those two to agree on kicking people for what ever reason, no reason,, or just because…

If you ask people to join you for content, and they decide to spend their time with you doing that content they are in fact giving you their time as much as you are giving them yours, there seems to be no respect for this.

All people write is it is my right to kick anyone if I don’t want to play with them at any time through a Dungeon or a Fractal.

Everyone asks that their time is respected and explains how they won’t waste time on people who make a few mistakes, where as they in turn do not have to respect the time given by the same people, and in fact waste the time of the people who joined in., when kicking them out half way through a fract or a dungeon.

Sure there are examples of justified kicking, and good reasons, but unfortunately those are the rare cases.

That said those rare cases should be easy enough to resolve as it should not be a problem to get a third or even a fourth vote in favor.

For all of those who always write the response to this issue with something along the lines of:

It is not my job to carry a PuG

I can only say, if you look for a PuG or join a PuG, then it is your job to carry a PuG, or at least help carry a PuG within reason!

It is the people with this attitude, of it not being my job who should be looking for large dedicated “elite guilds” not the other way around, as it seems to be the general attitude.

People who play for a bit of fun and a dungeon or two in PuGs, use this system for a reason.

Maybe they don’t have time to be in a big Guild, maybe they don’t even desire to be in a guild.

There is a reason the PuG system exists, and that is to encourage this play style too, not so everyone can tell others that it is not their job to play with them or carry them and they should just find a guild.

To put it pretty simple….

If it is not your job to carry a PuG, don’t advertize for one and don’t join one!

Jeskelech.4152:

Tiger Ashante.1792:

Here’s how u can fix it. The person who creates the group is the party leader, full stop. That leader is marked somehow in the group for eg: has an asterisk against his portrait so everyone knows who the leader is. The only person who has the right to kick anyone is the leader. if you don’t like the leader then leave the group. If the leader gets dc.d the leadership automatically goes to the next most senior player in the group, ie: one that got invited first by the leader.

Since the abuse of kicking people at the final boss battles seems rife in this game, the party leader cannot kick anyone during the boss fight and till everyone loots their chest. Simple isn’kitten

You are being constructive at least, but this is quite possibly the worst solution you could come up with, since this allows the party leader to kick everyone at any time he pleases, only to proceed with other people as he pleases.

A system like this would be even more open to abuse than the current one.

Not if the kicking would still ask 3 out of 5 votes too.
In other games you also got a cooldown on kicking within the instance and atleast 5 minutes have to be passed before you can actually can request kick, out of combat has to be required too. Though this only solves 3 problems, kicking ppl just becuz of their class/AP (just the first 5 min of the instance? or after he/she joins?), kicking during combat, kicking multiple ppl in a row.

Fyrebrand.4859:

In my opinion, the LFG Tool is completely inappropriate for dungeons. “If you don’t like it, start your own group” is the completely wrong paradigm.

• There should be no such thing as a “dungeon opener” or an entitled feeling like you “own” a dungeon and everyone else joined “your” group.
• There should not be an opportunity to ascribe comments or demands to a dungeon in the LFG listing. There should not even be an LFG listing, where you choose a party — you should blindly queue for a random party, like in most other MMOs. “5k AP zerker warrior only” is not a request that deserves to be recognized or enforced
• There should be no one who is immune from being kicked. Anyone should be able to be removed from the group, as long as 4 out of 5 group members agree. If you can’t come to a consensus about whether an individual is causing a problem, then you probably don’t have a good reason to kick in the first place. Maybe an exception can be made if other players are left AFK for a while.
• There is no reason to wipe the party chat log after you leave a group or are kicked. That makes no sense at all, and makes it a lot harder to report legit cases of griefing, harassment, offensive language, etc.

+100 on this already. This will get rid off all the trolling around with kicking and the “5k ap or kick” behaviour.

Jeskelech.4152:

Tiger Ashante.1792:

Here’s how u can fix it. The person who creates the group is the party leader, full stop. That leader is marked somehow in the group for eg: has an asterisk against his portrait so everyone knows who the leader is. The only person who has the right to kick anyone is the leader. if you don’t like the leader then leave the group. If the leader gets dc.d the leadership automatically goes to the next most senior player in the group, ie: one that got invited first by the leader.

Since the abuse of kicking people at the final boss battles seems rife in this game, the party leader cannot kick anyone during the boss fight and till everyone loots their chest. Simple isn’kitten

You are being constructive at least, but this is quite possibly the worst solution you could come up with, since this allows the party leader to kick everyone at any time he pleases, only to proceed with other people as he pleases.

A system like this would be even more open to abuse than the current one.

Strange u think that, coz i play other games that have had this type of system in for years and i’ve played tons of dungeons in those games, yet i’ve never, ever experienced what ur describing. Perhaps it’s what the player base has become in this game. In these other games i play, I always got the sense that the leader felt responsible for the group with some pride and took that position seriously.

But I know exactly what it feels like. I’ve experienced a sort of being kicked way back when as a result of the group leader leaving b4 everyone collected their chest and hence everyone being kicked out of the dungeon b4 getting their reward. I imagine being grief kicked would be even worse.

Since those incidences that happened to me, i’ve heard of many nasty ones and a bad culture being developed in dungeons in gw2 sadly. But I for one will not be playing the dungeons in this game until they fix the problem. tbh, i can live without the b/s.

Khal Drogo.9631:

Everyone says to build a friend list – how do u build a friend list (or indeed a block list) based on non troll/stupid/hyper elitist dungeon PvErs if you don’t PUG in the first place?

You get off your dead kitten and make posts in the guild forum saying what you’re looking for, or in the dungeon forum, or on Reddit or Guru. You type in game chat. The same way people would build friends’ lists before LFG tools were created. You be social in a social game.

It should not be possible to kick the instance owner. Period!

Other day I joined an ac p2 party. That specified only wars and one ele. (I don’t mind, I was an ele, wasn’t many lfg’s so jumped in.)
They died on spider, and one left, I quickly put up the lfg again, but edited it to say p2, lv80.

A thief joined and one member in the party gave out to me for changing the ad. and tried to kick the thief. ~rolls eyes~

A reason should ALWAYS have to given. (this could help anet check people who abused the kick system or not.)
And the instance owner should have the ‘end’ choice vote. ..basically, if someone says yes to kick, but instance owner says no, it’s not a kick, simple.

If you don’t like the instance owner, leave the party yourself.

meh, I’m sure anet knows the kick system needs an overhaul, I’d be happy with people having to give a reason. and for you to get a message like “kicked by [name] & [name], for xyz”.
And for the party of have a similar message.
“player [name] was kicked by [name ] & [name] for xyz”.

So far I would like to thank all contributors to this thread for sharing their stories, and contributing over all constructively to the discussion, let us try to keep it in this spirit.

I changed the topic title since I believe we have moved from a rant and a loose idea to something which is actually possible for ANet to consider and make use of if they desire to improve our quality of life.

Honestly, if the developers thought there was an issue with the party kick system they would have changed it by now. And seeing how they haven’t, they are not interested in improving the dungeon participation rate of the community. The metrics must be acceptable to them.

I see no reason to continue this thread other than to allow players to vent because it is obvious the party system in place is here to stay and suggestions to change it are falling on deaf ears.

Audrey.7246:

Honestly, if the developers thought there was an issue with the party kick system they would have changed it by now. And seeing how they haven’t, they are not interested in improving the dungeon participation rate of the community. The metrics must be acceptable to them.

I see no reason to continue this thread other than to allow players to vent because it is obvious the party system in place is here to stay and suggestions to change it are falling on deaf ears.

I really like your complete dismissal of this whole thread on behalf of the developers!

I believe I was just thanking people for contributing to a constructive thread.

But of course your authority is absolute and you can dismiss the whole thread based on YOUR opinion, rather than adding to it.

If ANet states that this is useless garbage so be it: but you do not represent ANet and there fore you do not have the authority to dismiss this on behalf of ANet.

In other words if you can not add something constructive, please refrain from posting.

Taygus.4571:

A reason should ALWAYS have to given. (this could help anet check people who abused the kick system or not.)

This is just paying lip service to combating the problem, but it has no teeth. People already are abusing the kick system without fear of consequences from ANet — making them select a vague “reason” for their kicking is not going to deter anyone. We do not need weak half-measures after the fact. The only thing that will reduce kick abuse are features built into the game which actively prevent frivolous kicks before they occur.

One of the root causes of kick abuse is very simple: one or two individuals have the potential to ruin things for the entire group. There is no good reason to kick anyone from a dungeon party, unless the majority can agree on it. If it’s just one or two people who want someone kicked, then it probably is not a good reason. Most people seem to agree that at least 3 people should be required to agree on a kick, though personally I would rather 4, with a few exceptions.

Taygus.4571:

If you don’t like the instance owner, leave the party yourself.

There is no reason to even have a dungeon “owner” — it serves no function or benefit to the game at all, and exacerbates the problem of not only griefing but also this “5k AP zerker warrior Lv.80 only” nonsense that should not even be happening at all. It has resulted in the LFG tool being virtually ignored by anyone but max-level speed run groups and dungeon sellers.

Audrey.7246:

Honestly, if the developers thought there was an issue with the party kick system they would have changed it by now. And seeing how they haven’t, they are not interested in improving the dungeon participation rate of the community. The metrics must be acceptable to them.

I see no reason to continue this thread other than to allow players to vent because it is obvious the party system in place is here to stay and suggestions to change it are falling on deaf ears.

Well the reason, dear friend, is that if we as players write about it – it makes it obvious that people aren’t exactly happy with the current system and they as a company want to keep us (customers) happy so they can get to function as a company.
I’m also sure that more QoL patches will follow so the more suggestions about what we want changed the better. Just because they haven’t said anything (not that they do often anyway) doesn’t mean that they themselves think the party LFG system is good and perfect and can stay that way.

The LFG tool is not bad, but it definitely needs improvement. I don’t find it good or justifiable to have 2 people running the whole show and abuse the weak points.

This won’t do us much good past the second page!

I am writing to bump this back up, and once again ask people to please contribute constructively to this discussion as there are already a lot of simple but good ideas here as for how things could be made better.

Ideas and reasoning for them would be the best way to show ANet that this is a real issue, and that all the current LFG tool manages to do along with so so group management is to make the game a bad experience for everyone at one time or another.

Everyone has experienced the instance owner rage quitting for various reasons.
Everyone has experienced a sudden unexplained kick from a party at one point or another.

Griefing is bad for any game, a system which more or less encourages it is worse, unless the game is EVE online.

Let us play the game as intended; for fun, not for speed farming dungeons, and you suck comments all over the place if your character is not of a class and skill set according to the meta.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Khal Drogo.9631:

Everyone says to build a friend list – how do u build a friend list (or indeed a block list) based on non troll/stupid/hyper elitist dungeon PvErs if you don’t PUG in the first place?

You get off your dead kitten and make posts in the guild forum saying what you’re looking for, or in the dungeon forum, or on Reddit or Guru. You type in game chat. The same way people would build friends’ lists before LFG tools were created. You be social in a social game.

All that is still pretty much PUGing. Sure you could blindly join Guilds, but those people are still strangers to you at first.

My suggestions for the kick system:
- Set votes to true majority – that’s three votes for a full party of five.
- Keep Party chat. Period. We can create and edit quite a few chat tabs, so nobody can really say they’re annoyed by old Party chats. Or at least make it like every other chat and be wiped on logging.
- Set event checkpoints and rewards for them. Divide the instance end rewards among the instance’s encounters so that if one has to leave group (for whatever reason), they still get something for their time/effort. This could have the added effect of getting people to skip less.
I do see the issue with Fractals having such a weighted Boss Fractal reward. I’ve never like the Fractal system, so I’m at a bit of a loss for suggestions there. The only thing I could think of would be some kind of token system to let one come back and only play the Boss Fractal.

Another interesting experience with group kicking system, spent about an hour and a half for a level 49 fractal, the two advertisers for a PUG are guildies, and this is sort of a red flag I know, but everything seems to be running fine, until…..

A full fractal run, where no one essentially says anything, and just before the end boss on the 4th fractal, the two initial party members decides to kick one of the group members from the group because of “lack of skill”!

It i worth noting here that one of the initial members spent more time, downed or dead than anyone else in the entire group.

Needless to say I don’t want to play with that sort of people, so I left the group on my own, but I really feel like I wasted my time, but at least I chose to leave, where as the other party member was forcibly kicked, and had nothing to show for time spent playing the style they wished to play and actually in my opinion contributing more than others to the success of the group.

Now my BIG question to ANet here, is how come you can fix the Blix farm train because it is creating a toxic environment; and at the same time pretend that the group mechanics are working as intended, this environment is far more toxic than the map chat, at least you can ignore that, here you are directly affected by one or two people at a whim.

The dungeon/fractal owner is safe, no one can kick that person, and if he has a friend, well then together they can essentially kick most of the group at the very end just to get other people in, or sell the run.