Guild Wars 2

Every salvage kit states that it has an “X% chance for rarer materials.” However, does anyone know what this suspicious claim actually means?

I used to think this applied to items that could yield a +1 mat from standard salvaging (for example Hardened Leather over Thick for L80 medium armor). But…

My recent ~4k salvagings using Mystic kits on L80 blue/green medium armors attests otherwise. That result was 9.25% chance to yield Hardened Leather over Thick, which just so happens to be pretty close to my earlier testing using Basic kits which came in at 8.25% over ~3.5k results. This smells like any kit may have the same, or similar, chance to get a +1 tier mat. My sample sizes are large enough to reveal the gulf between the 25% claim (if it even applies here) and actual results, if not showing total accuracy. I also broke results up into 500 unit batches (before combining them for a final number) to ensure there were no oddities. No batches exceeded 11.5% chance.

In addition, a small sample of about 120 exos salvaged over a several month span using Black Lion Kits which claim a 50% chance for rarer materials only produced 18% T6 mats from strictly L80 exotics. Higher than Mystic/Master’s, but nowhere near 50%. It’s unlikely a massive sample would make up such a huge difference. Especially as the presence of a large gap between the claimed chance and my actual numbers remains regardless of the kit.

So, in my experience, it seems safe to say the chance for rarer materials does not apply (or is not correctly applied) to simple salvaging of gear that has a chance to yield a +1 tier mat.

So what does that leave? Ectos and dark matter.

Well, that might be something if not for the fact that you will not see a 25% chance of ectos salvaging rares using a Mystic/Master’s kit. Rather, you’ll see something closer to 60%. Using Black Lion kits on exotics also doesn’t convey a 50% chance to get 1+ ectos or dark matter, but rather something closer to 75% for ectos (i.e. 3 of 4 salvagings will yield 1 or more ectos) and ~50-55% for dark matter. It’s obvious the kit quality affects this, but it is nowhere near in line with the kit’s claim for rarer materials unless, perhaps, you confine it dark matter, but then again, the kit % claims far pre-date the advent of dark matter, so that can’t be done, anyway.

So, I reiterate: WTF does “X% chance of rarer materials” MEAN? It doesn’t appear to apply to ANYTHING.

Is this the parasitic twin of the problem kits had with upgrades where the stated chances were completely unrelated to reality? That was eventually fixed, though it took years to get to it.

Kruhljak.2705:

Every salvage kit states that it has an “X% chance for rarer materials.” However, does anyone know what this suspicious claim actually means?

I used to think this applied to items that could yield a +1 mat from standard salvaging (for example Hardened Leather over Thick for L80 medium armor). But…

My recent ~4k salvagings using Mystic kits on L80 blue/green medium armors attests otherwise. That result was 9.25% chance to yield Hardened Leather over Thick, which just so happens to be pretty close to my earlier testing using Basic kits which came in at 8.25% over ~3.5k results. This smells like any kit may have the same, or similar, chance to get a +1 tier mat. My sample sizes are large enough to reveal the gulf between the 25% claim (if it even applies here) and actual results, if not showing total accuracy. I also broke results up into 500 unit batches (before combining them for a final number) to ensure there were no oddities. No batches exceeded 11.5% chance.

In addition, a small sample of about 120 exos salvaged over a several month span using Black Lion Kits which claim a 50% chance for rarer materials only produced 18% T6 mats from strictly L80 exotics. Higher than Mystic/Master’s, but nowhere near 50%. It’s unlikely a massive sample would make up such a huge difference. Especially as the presence of a large gap between the claimed chance and my actual numbers remains regardless of the kit.

So, in my experience, it seems safe to say the chance for rarer materials does not apply (or is not correctly applied) to simple salvaging of gear that has a chance to yield a +1 tier mat.

Is it possible that the % chance of rarer materials means a bonus % off the base chance? For example using round numbers, let’s say the base chance of getting a +1 tier mat is 8%, and you use a Mystic Salvage Kit that gives you a 25% chance at rarer materials… then it’s a 25% better chance off the base 8%… meaning you now have a 10% chance.

That’s the best reasoning I can come up with off the top of my head.

~EW

That would work like Magic Find. Seems reasonable.

GW2 Profits list the following rates

Basic Materials Salvage Drop Rates:
- Crude has 10% chance of higher tier
- Basic/Infinite has 12.5% chance of higher tier
- Fine has 13.75% chance of higher tier
- Journeyman has 15% chance of higher tier
- Master/Mystic has 16.25% chance of higher tier
- BLSK has 22.5% chance of higher tier

http://www.gw2profits.com/basic_salvage.php

Behellagh.1468:

GW2 Profits list the following rates

For reference, I’m going to list those side by side with each item’s stated rate

• Crude: 0% listed | 10% ‘actual’ — 2.13 copper/use
• Basic: 10% listed | 12.5% ‘actual’ — 3.52 (3 for Copper-Fed)
• Fine: 15% listed | 13.75% ‘actual’ — 11.52
• Journeyman: 20% listed | 15% ‘actual’ — 32
• Master/Mystic: 25% listed | 16.25% ‘actual’ — 61.44 (60 for Silver-Fed, 10.5 Mystic)
• BL Sal: 50% listed | 22.5% ‘actual’

I don’t see on colbymg’s site that they’ve explained how they determined the ‘actual’ rates. Earlier research has shown that “chance of higher material” depends on the target item’s rarity and level. My own data on salvaging ‘salvage items’ shows a wide variance, such that I’m not sure that 1000 or even 2000 salvages is enough to be sure about the drop rates.

In particular, there seems to be a big difference between the rate differential from T3→T4 compare to T5→T6

The way I handle the discrepancy is by ignoring the stated number and simply noting that the cost per kit generally suggests that it’s not worth bothering. Unless one kit gives 50% more of the next tier, the extra cost outweighs the value.

Notable exceptions are using Silver/Mystic to salvage rare gear for ecto, ecto for crystalline dust, and (currently) salvaging for T6 leather (although I lack the data to prove the last).

tl;dr my rule of thumb is progressively more expensive kits do drop progressively more Tx+1 mats, but not enough to make it worth the cost. I use Copper-Fed/Basic because it’s convenient for everything except rare 68+ gear and ecto itself.

Kruhljak.2705:

That result was 9.25% chance to yield Hardened Leather over Thick, which just so happens to be pretty close to my earlier testing using Basic kits which came in at 8.25% over ~3.5k results. This smells like any kit may have the same, or similar, chance to get a +1 tier mat. My sample sizes are large enough to reveal the gulf between the 25% claim (if it even applies here) and actual results, if not showing total accuracy. I also broke results up into 500 unit batches (before combining them for a final number) to ensure there were no oddities. No batches exceeded 11.5% chance.

This is a whole other thread. Leather salvaging has been nerfed (not going to debate this issue btw) and shouldn’t be used as an example for any returns imo.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

That would work like Magic Find. Seems reasonable.

It’s possible depending on the actual underlying base numbers, but if so, the descriptive text is misleading as the rates for rarer mats and upgrades is expressed identically, and upgrade retrieval rates are provably accurate as flat rates.

Even this could be sussed out over time with a mix of kits and enough samples, but I haven’t got the stamina to do it myself.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Behellagh.1468:

GW2 Profits list the following rates

I don’t see on colbymg’s site that they’ve explained how they determined the ‘actual’ rates. Earlier research has shown that “chance of higher material” depends on the target item’s rarity and level. My own data on salvaging ‘salvage items’ shows a wide variance, such that I’m not sure that 1000 or even 2000 salvages is enough to be sure about the drop rates.

In particular, there seems to be a big difference between the rate differential from T3->T4 compare to T5->T6

I can verify this on my side, as well.

The way I handle the discrepancy is by ignoring the stated number and simply noting that the cost per kit generally suggests that it’s not worth bothering. Unless one kit gives 50% more of the next tier, the extra cost outweighs the value.

For the most part, I’ve found crude kits/copper-fed generally work as well as anything up to Mystic/Master’s in terms of end profits when salvaging blues/greens. The variance is, indeed, too small in the long run to worry about.

tl;dr my rule of thumb is progressively more expensive kits do drop progressively more Tx+1 mats, but not enough to make it worth the cost. I use Copper-Fed/Basic because it’s convenient for everything except rare 68+ gear and ecto itself.

Yep, pretty much my plan, as well. In the long run, it seems reasonable to ignore a kit’s claim about rarer materials since it doesn’t relate very well to any typical salvaging routine a player’s going to experience.

I still wonder under what circumstances will a kit’s stated numbers re rare materials actually bear out? If ever. Could be the underlying salvaging process has gone through enough revisions that these numbers are literally fantasy by this point.

This is a whole other thread. Leather salvaging has been nerfed (not going to debate this issue btw) and shouldn’t be used as an example for any returns imo.

Any chance you have a pointer to this statement/info? I definitely missed it.

I did some research with a couple of thousand salvages for each kit back in the when the old crafting and bltc subforums were still active and came to the same conclusion most other posters came.
There seems to be a basic chance to get a higher tier common mat (t5 instead of t4) associated with each salvageable item on which the % stated in the tool tip of each salvage kit gets applied to.

IIRC (feel free to browse my post history to look for that thread and detailed data) basic chance was about 10% (with crude kits) and it went a couple of overall percentages up with hier tier kits, i had something between 16-18% for master kits.

I wouldnt be surprised, if there would be more variables associated with the rate and higher tier common mat output on salvages, for example:

The level of the salvaged gear, a level 43 light glove of common rarity might yield t4 instead of t3 cloth more often than a lvl 42 light glove of common rarity.

The rarity of the item itself, a lvl 20 masterwork glove might yield more or better mats than a lvl 20 fine glove.

The faucet of the item, a lvl 80 exotic scepter that came from an enemy drop might yield less t6 mats than one that was crafted or is a named weapon. A named weapon from dungeon tokens might yield less than one from the mystic forge.

Muusic.2967:

This is a whole other thread. Leather salvaging has been nerfed (not going to debate this issue btw) and shouldn’t be used as an example for any returns imo.

Bold claims need to backed up by evidence. The items that I track to salvage leather drop just as much as they used to. Regardless of whether you want to “debate this” or not, a statement of fact requires proof.

Here is something else I’ve noticed but unsure if it’s true. I’ve seen a lower salvage rate from items that can be created by crafting Vs those that can’t and are simply dropped. GW2BLTC notes which items can be crafted when you mouse over items.

About the leather, I used to be drowning in hardened, and now I hardly ever get them. This is with a mystic kit salvaging everything that comes out of the WvW tracks and champ bags.

Nothing but mithril and thick leather.

Behellagh.1468:

Here is something else I’ve noticed but unsure if it’s true. I’ve seen a lower salvage rate from items that can be created by crafting Vs those that can’t and are simply dropped. GW2BLTC notes which items can be crafted when you mouse over items.

There’s some old research that documents this and I doubt ANet’s ever normalized things (it’s one of those changes they should make, but never get around because it’s labor intensive, prone to error, and it’s very hard to explain why consistency matters that much to the community).

Similarly, salvageable gear bought from NPCs has yet another rate of salvage.

Before “salvage all” was a thing, I mostly ignored this inconsistency, because it just wasn’t worth buying in bulk and salvaging stuff one-at-a-time. Currently, however, it might be worth noting any important differences, as there might be some substantial arbitrage possible in certain tiers. However, it would be a nightmare to collect the data — we’re basically assuming that it’s important to keep track of every single item, regardless of name, and get data on 500-1000 salavages and ensure a statistically meaningful difference (if there is one).

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Behellagh.1468:

Here is something else I’ve noticed but unsure if it’s true. I’ve seen a lower salvage rate from items that can be created by crafting Vs those that can’t and are simply dropped. GW2BLTC notes which items can be crafted when you mouse over items.

There’s some old research that documents this and I doubt ANet’s ever normalized things (it’s one of those changes they should make, but never get around because it’s labor intensive, prone to error, and it’s very hard to explain why consistency matters that much to the community).

Similarly, salvageable gear bought from NPCs has yet another rate of salvage.

Before “salvage all” was a thing, I mostly ignored this inconsistency, because it just wasn’t worth buying in bulk and salvaging stuff one-at-a-time. Currently, however, it might be worth noting any important differences, as there might be some substantial arbitrage possible in certain tiers. However, it would be a nightmare to collect the data — we’re basically assuming that it’s important to keep track of every single item, regardless of name, and get data on 500-1000 salavages and ensure a statistically meaningful difference (if there is one).

Tell me about it (stares at meta data of 30K salvage).

Behellagh.1468:

Here is something else I’ve noticed but unsure if it’s true. I’ve seen a lower salvage rate from items that can be created by crafting Vs those that can’t and are simply dropped. GW2BLTC notes which items can be crafted when you mouse over items.

I haven’t collected much data from salvaging crafted items, but I can say with certainty that crafted item yields use different yield tables (for lack of a better term).

For one, they tend to yield mats that are one level group (i.e. the block of item level ranges that would produce a mat one tier below as it’s “common” yield) below that of other items of the same level. For example, where dropped L50 light armor would guarantee linen, crafted L50 armor will yield cotton (though they may yield linen sometimes as a +1 “rarer” mat, I just haven’t salvaged enough to have that happen, if it can). At L80 this may not be the case, and I haven’t done much of any salvaging of L80 crafted armor to find out. IIRC, weapons were a mixed bag of sometimes lower tier as compared to dropped, and sometimes not, depending on item level.

For another, some weapons that are crafted entirely of wood can yield metal ore. For instance, low level wooden bows will yield copper ore instead of green wood. This may not be consistent (again, limited data on my side) as item levels rise, but I have many examples of this in the past. It’s possible this has been corrected more recently, though. It’s also possible the quirk with armor has been changed recently as I haven’t salvaged any crafted armor for a long while.

The rules for crafted items vis a vis salvaging are clearly separate from those applied to dropped items. It would be interesting to investigate it just for kicks, but I’m not up for it these days.

Not talking quality tier but quantity.