Guild Wars 2

Ayrilana.1396:

And what are the chances of it being rolled out and almost everyone praising it after realizing that they were just overreacting? It’s not like something like that has happened before…

indeed, most of the time people just deal with the fact of getting screw over only couse others and others and others said is ok, lest wait and see

Hexalot.8194:

Bah !!

As long as the Silver Wastes chest train keeps chugging along pumping out gold like there is no tomorrow, they can nerf salvaging/dungeons to the ground for all we care !!

Quickly edit your post before Anet finds it and nerfs SW. :P :P :P (I agree, btw!)

So glad I’m set for materials and what not before this post went out.

First, thank you John Smith for being upfront; own it, don’t sugar coat it.

Sounds as though they expect a significant reduction in the demand for materials used to craft legacy precursors. If salvage rates/ faucets remained as they are now, the TP value of many mats would plummet. Hopefully, their goal is to keep TP values close to where they are now (across t5-t6). Hopefully this also means that the average player doesn’t have to work harder than they do now for Ascended gear. Conscientious objectors to the TP may not be winners.

Economic/currency activity is an important aspect of GW2.

edit:

“This shifts the power from the supplier of a rare good to the buyer, because the buyer now has the option to refrain from buying and still achieve goals, which is what we wanted.”

John Smith on map rewards

Conscientious objectors of the TP are not left out in the cold either.

I feel like 90% of the people in this thread didn’t even read the blog post…

I’m quite excited for the changes. Looking forward to seeing what happens!

Particularly like the mentions of fixing the broken markets.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

I can understand some items, like Elder Wood, Mithril and even Thick Leather. But everything above T1 and below T5 is generally rather scarce, especially the leather and cloth parts.

I’ll take some rare material any day from salvaging some green lvl80 item over wood or mithril… But I hardly get T4 stuff and as you cannot harvest the cloth and leather, you’re dependent on getting a low enough drop that doesn’t salvage into wood or metal… That’s pretty rare in the first place…

T2-T4 mats are in short supply because they are in level over country because leveling is fast and random drops are based on your level which determines the mats you get from salvaging them. You can only get them from level specific bags. Which means farming them, either you or someone else who is then selling them on the TP.

And that’s the primary problem. Sure I understand if you are a level 80 in Bloodtide Coast, any level 50 item is worthless to use by you but so are blue/green level 80s. They are all salvage fodder but one gives you T4 while the others T5 and maybe T6, rarely.

Does anyone think that the ecto slots were added to pump up the price of ectos? And since ectos are one of the cornerstones of the economy that ecto salvage is going to get changed up?

The Sky is falling!

Hexalot.8194:

Bah !!

As long as the Silver Wastes chest train keeps chugging along pumping out gold like there is no tomorrow, they can nerf salvaging/dungeons to the ground for all we care !!

Unless I am missing something here, SW will be indirectly nerfed into oblivion. About 75%+ of the money made with SWs are from salvaging the crap in the chests. Depending on the salvaging nerf, it will decimate Sws farming and make it a huge waste of time. For those that played GW1, the best comparision were the dunes farming, when Anet decided that those critters wouldnt drop anything anymore..

I really wish they would have announce this earlier. Being mainly a solo player, they completely and utterly just said ‘get out, we don’t want you playing our game.’ Salvaging mats is the only real way to make money if your not into dungeons/raids/fractals.

Let’s just change “John Smiths” word “seller” to “long time player”, and “buyer” to “new player”.

Still seem fair?

Wanze.8410:

Looks awesome, cant wait for all the changes.

For someone that lives off TP, that is probably a good thing. I assume there will be thousands of golden opportunities for people that will be fast on the uptake and will react in time for the market changes.

For those that actually play the game however, it is completely opposite.

Labjax.2465:

To me, it sounds like what he’s saying is, there is going to be some reduction of more common mats (such as leather, ore, and cloth) along with an increase in rare materials. So instead of seeing (pulling these numbers out of my yahoo) 30 ore for every 1 vial of powerful blood, you might see 15 ore for every 1 vial of powerful blood.

It sounds like a change in ratios. In terms of profit, it should remain roughly the same once things balance out.

You do realize, that it would mean a nerf to silk, right? At the point when they not so subtly suggested everyone shoudl be gearing themselves in ascended (because it will be the go to gear for both raids and fractals, and dungeons are getting axed).

Ayrilana.1396:

And what are the chances of it being rolled out and almost everyone praising it after realizing that they were just overreacting? It’s not like something like that has happened before…

You are right. It’s not like most times when anet was talking about “rebalancing” it ended up being a significant nerf.
Oh wait…

(to answer your question, the chances of almost everyone praising it, based on past experience, are very close to zero).

mulzi.8273:

Hexalot.8194:

Bah !!

As long as the Silver Wastes chest train keeps chugging along pumping out gold like there is no tomorrow, they can nerf salvaging/dungeons to the ground for all we care !!

Unless I am missing something here, SW will be indirectly nerfed into oblivion. About 75%+ of the money made with SWs are from salvaging the crap in the chests. Depending on the salvaging nerf, it will decimate Sws farming and make it a huge waste of time. For those that played GW1, the best comparision were the dunes farming, when Anet decided that those critters wouldnt drop anything anymore..

I really wish they would have announce this earlier. Being mainly a solo player, they completely and utterly just said ‘get out, we don’t want you playing our game.’ Salvaging mats is the only real way to make money if your not into dungeons/raids/fractals.

Really ?

Then I guess I’m not doing it right then because I never bother with salvaging anything but yellows (green and blues that don’t sell on the TP I just end up NPCing) for the Ectos. Still make more money there on a per hour basis than anywhere else I can think of, LOL.

Astralporing.1957:

Wanze.8410:

Looks awesome, cant wait for all the changes.

For someone that lives off TP, that is probably a good thing. I assume there will be thousands of golden opportunities for people that will be fast on the uptake and will react in time for the market changes.

For those that actually play the game however, it is completely opposite.

Labjax.2465:

To me, it sounds like what he’s saying is, there is going to be some reduction of more common mats (such as leather, ore, and cloth) along with an increase in rare materials. So instead of seeing (pulling these numbers out of my yahoo) 30 ore for every 1 vial of powerful blood, you might see 15 ore for every 1 vial of powerful blood.

It sounds like a change in ratios. In terms of profit, it should remain roughly the same once things balance out.

You do realize, that it would mean a nerf to silk, right? At the point when they not so subtly suggested everyone shoudl be gearing themselves in ascended (because it will be the go to gear for both raids and fractals, and dungeons are getting axed).

Ayrilana.1396:

And what are the chances of it being rolled out and almost everyone praising it after realizing that they were just overreacting? It’s not like something like that has happened before…

You are right. It’s not like most times when anet was talking about “rebalancing” it ended up being a significant nerf.
Oh wait…

(to answer your question, the chances of almost everyone praising it, based on past experience, are very close to zero).

It’s not the same as class balancing. With map rewards, there will need to be balancing done. The overall effect could likely be praised. Of course we can’t make any reliable assumption until we have more information.

I get most parts and it may not be as nefarious as it sounds (Anet want to nerf leather drops? Yeah, they can keep their kittening leather). However…

Map rewards are specific, tangible rewards you receive from playing on a map. They allow players to balance overpriced items as well as seek specific materials for their personal goals without constant uncertainty. Map rewards are pretty great but are a constant enemy of scarcity. Map-reward materials can no longer be overpriced for any extended period of time because players now have the power to push the supply when needed. This shifts the power from the supplier of a rare good to the buyer, because the buyer now has the option to refrain from buying and still achieve goals, which is what we wanted.

Can someone post an English translation please? :/

I’m fairly certain this is not directed at F2P, but the Core game itself.

It will remain playable. Just not profitable.

Just another way to push HoT purchasing. Understandable from a business standpoint, sure. Good business.. I don’t think so.

Calm down.

They are nerfing salvage because they are moving resources to a less RNG system: Map rewards.

Need silk? In stead of doing whatever it is you do to get 5000 worthless greens and hoping some of them are cloth, and getting frustrated when they are not, you in stead open your map and go “okay, today there’s cloth in brisban wildlands”

And tomorrow, you play a different zone for cloth, and the next day yet another different zone.

On top of that you’re still getting some RNG drops for stuff you’re not specifically after, and selling that for profit.

It will sell for less profit because people can farm for it themselves, but you also need less money because you can reliably farm for stuff yourself.

In the end the change is that in stead of finding the one best farm in terms of loot quantity and doing it for months on end coughsilverwastesandbalmcough you get to determine your objective, and do different content every day in pursuit of it.

How is that not an improvement?

mulzi.8273:

Hexalot.8194:

Bah !!

As long as the Silver Wastes chest train keeps chugging along pumping out gold like there is no tomorrow, they can nerf salvaging/dungeons to the ground for all we care !!

Unless I am missing something here, SW will be indirectly nerfed into oblivion. About 75%+ of the money made with SWs are from salvaging the crap in the chests. Depending on the salvaging nerf, it will decimate Sws farming and make it a huge waste of time. For those that played GW1, the best comparision were the dunes farming, when Anet decided that those critters wouldnt drop anything anymore..

I really wish they would have announce this earlier. Being mainly a solo player, they completely and utterly just said ‘get out, we don’t want you playing our game.’ Salvaging mats is the only real way to make money if your not into dungeons/raids/fractals.

I dont think the SW train chucks out alot of gold, as direct gold drops are pretty limited to the couple of silver dropped from embroidered coin purses.

Astralporing.1957:

You do realize, that it would mean a nerf to silk, right? At the point when they not so subtly suggested everyone shoudl be gearing themselves in ascended (because it will be the go to gear for both raids and fractals, and dungeons are getting axed).

I did think of that, which is why I’m probably off on my interpretation. I don’t seriously believe that JS would knowingly nerf silk on purpose, right when people are going to be clawing for ascended gear.

He may be blunt, but I don’t think he’s sadistic.

PopeUrban.2578:

Calm down.

They are nerfing salvage because they are moving resources to a less RNG system: Map rewards.

Need silk? In stead of doing whatever it is you do to get 5000 worthless greens and hoping some of them are cloth, and getting frustrated when they are not, you in stead open your map and go “okay, today there’s cloth in brisban wildlands”

And tomorrow, you play a different zone for cloth, and the next day yet another different zone.

On top of that you’re still getting some RNG drops for stuff you’re not specifically after, and selling that for profit.

It will sell for less profit because people can farm for it themselves, but you also need less money because you can reliably farm for stuff yourself.

In the end the change is that in stead of finding the one best farm in terms of loot quantity and doing it for months on end coughsilverwastesandbalmcough you get to determine your objective, and do different content every day in pursuit of it.

How is that not an improvement?

Well its not an improvement if you play sPvP or WvW… but then again that’s buisness as usual, we already know Anet only care about PvE.

Dawdler.8521:

I get most parts and it may not be as nefarious as it sounds (Anet want to nerf leather drops? Yeah, they can keep their kittening leather). However…

Map rewards are specific, tangible rewards you receive from playing on a map. They allow players to balance overpriced items as well as seek specific materials for their personal goals without constant uncertainty. Map rewards are pretty great but are a constant enemy of scarcity. Map-reward materials can no longer be overpriced for any extended period of time because players now have the power to push the supply when needed. This shifts the power from the supplier of a rare good to the buyer, because the buyer now has the option to refrain from buying and still achieve goals, which is what we wanted.

Can someone post an English translation please? :/

Map specific drops, drops based on the level of the map rather than the level of the character. Items like loot bags where the RNG selects from a list of mats that are map level specific.

I think.

Dawdler.8521:

I get most parts and it may not be as nefarious as it sounds (Anet want to nerf leather drops? Yeah, they can keep their kittening leather). However…

Map rewards are specific, tangible rewards you receive from playing on a map. They allow players to balance overpriced items as well as seek specific materials for their personal goals without constant uncertainty. Map rewards are pretty great but are a constant enemy of scarcity. Map-reward materials can no longer be overpriced for any extended period of time because players now have the power to push the supply when needed. This shifts the power from the supplier of a rare good to the buyer, because the buyer now has the option to refrain from buying and still achieve goals, which is what we wanted.

Can someone post an English translation please? :/

Once HoT launches each map will have map specific rewards. Every event, JP, world boss, etc thing you complete will fill up a counter. Once that counter is full you get a bonus chest. That bonus chest has a map specific reward to it. There are 40 tiers of rewards for each map, on an 8 week cycle. Each week the map gives slightly different rewards.

The first beta had the rewards listed:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/9881fm8dndqsbow/maps.html

For instance, cursed shore:

if you complete all 40 tiers of rewards on week one you would get a total of:

50 T6 fangs
10 Piles of Vile essence
5 Giant eye

Then the next week you get T6 totems, Gossamer and Corrupted lodestones.

Dawdler.8521:

I get most parts and it may not be as nefarious as it sounds (Anet want to nerf leather drops? Yeah, they can keep their kittening leather). However…

Map rewards are specific, tangible rewards you receive from playing on a map. They allow players to balance overpriced items as well as seek specific materials for their personal goals without constant uncertainty. Map rewards are pretty great but are a constant enemy of scarcity. Map-reward materials can no longer be overpriced for any extended period of time because players now have the power to push the supply when needed. This shifts the power from the supplier of a rare good to the buyer, because the buyer now has the option to refrain from buying and still achieve goals, which is what we wanted.

Can someone post an English translation please? :/

Basically it means people aren’t forced to buy, which is somehow a bad thing to them. The thing is though we are forced to buy if we wanna make things in a reasonable time. Take charged lodestones, they are that expensive because of how rare they are, yet you’d need 350 of them for Mjolnir (250 charged lodestones plus 100 for the gift of lightning) or 250 for infinite light. People who don’t wanna make these or already have them sell of the lodestones, but due to the ludicrously low droprates it’s unrealistic for a player to farm all the way for these things. Even Crucible of Eternity doesn’t drop one every time.

It’s to early to QQ about it and none of you have access to the numbers ANet has. Also you don’t take in consideration the plethora of changes that are taking place in HoT including map specific rewards and so on.

It’s way to early to QQ about this honestly. You talk based on your experience now..but the economy will completely change with the new maps, rewards, mats and so on that will be added on top of the map rewards. You have yet to experience or know how those will impact anything at this moment.

I am not saying you are wrong..i am saying you aren’t right because you just don’t have what needs to make a decision on this topic (right or wrong).

So does this effect the usefulness of the copper and silver salvagmatics?

Dawdler.8521:

I get most parts and it may not be as nefarious as it sounds (Anet want to nerf leather drops? Yeah, they can keep their kittening leather). However…

Map rewards are specific, tangible rewards you receive from playing on a map. They allow players to balance overpriced items as well as seek specific materials for their personal goals without constant uncertainty. Map rewards are pretty great but are a constant enemy of scarcity. Map-reward materials can no longer be overpriced for any extended period of time because players now have the power to push the supply when needed. This shifts the power from the supplier of a rare good to the buyer, because the buyer now has the option to refrain from buying and still achieve goals, which is what we wanted.

Can someone post an English translation please? :/

It means that every material or item, that will be obtainable via map rewards, is easily target farmed by the player base, so its easier to counter price spikes or times of additional demand.

Depending on which map the currently most expensive mats are dropping for map rewards on any given day, thats where the players will go in order to farm.

Dawdler.8521:

I get most parts and it may not be as nefarious as it sounds (Anet want to nerf leather drops? Yeah, they can keep their kittening leather). However…

Map rewards are specific, tangible rewards you receive from playing on a map. They allow players to balance overpriced items as well as seek specific materials for their personal goals without constant uncertainty. Map rewards are pretty great but are a constant enemy of scarcity. Map-reward materials can no longer be overpriced for any extended period of time because players now have the power to push the supply when needed. This shifts the power from the supplier of a rare good to the buyer, because the buyer now has the option to refrain from buying and still achieve goals, which is what we wanted.

Can someone post an English translation please? :/

He is trying to walk a tight rope. John Smith et al wants scarcity but also wants players to have access to items without turning to the TP. Map rewards will reward players with specific and predictable rare rewards; that limits scarcity (drives down the price by increasing the supply) but also means players won’t have to turn to the TP for those rare items.

edit: lol I think between all the replies we covered it

Dawdler.8521:

Well its not an improvement if you play sPvP or WvW… but then again that’s buisness as usual, we already know Anet only care about PvE.

And I only really care about PvE too.

SRoode.7318:

Let’s just change “John Smiths” word “seller” to “long time player”, and “buyer” to “new player”.

Still seem fair?

Sounds even more fair. Most players, especially gathers, want a buyer’s market.

Hexalot.8194:

mulzi.8273:

Hexalot.8194:

Bah !!

As long as the Silver Wastes chest train keeps chugging along pumping out gold like there is no tomorrow, they can nerf salvaging/dungeons to the ground for all we care !!

Unless I am missing something here, SW will be indirectly nerfed into oblivion. About 75%+ of the money made with SWs are from salvaging the crap in the chests. Depending on the salvaging nerf, it will decimate Sws farming and make it a huge waste of time. For those that played GW1, the best comparision were the dunes farming, when Anet decided that those critters wouldnt drop anything anymore..

I really wish they would have announce this earlier. Being mainly a solo player, they completely and utterly just said ‘get out, we don’t want you playing our game.’ Salvaging mats is the only real way to make money if your not into dungeons/raids/fractals.

Really ?

Then I guess I’m not doing it right then because I never bother with salvaging anything but yellows (green and blues that don’t sell on the TP I just end up NPCing) for the Ectos. Still make more money there on a per hour basis than anywhere else I can think of, LOL.

I think you need to reassess that routine. The sum of the mats you get from salvaging the blues/greens from the purses goes well beyond what you get from salvaging a few yellows.

side thought, atleast increase luck from salvaging.

What do you think will happen with Loot Bags ?
It is better to open them now or later ? I was keeping them because maybe Anet will introduce new mats, and Heavy Loot Bags will contain them, but what it Loot Bags will be nerfed too ?

Dawdler.8521:

PopeUrban.2578:

Calm down.

They are nerfing salvage because they are moving resources to a less RNG system: Map rewards.

Need silk? In stead of doing whatever it is you do to get 5000 worthless greens and hoping some of them are cloth, and getting frustrated when they are not, you in stead open your map and go “okay, today there’s cloth in brisban wildlands”

And tomorrow, you play a different zone for cloth, and the next day yet another different zone.

On top of that you’re still getting some RNG drops for stuff you’re not specifically after, and selling that for profit.

It will sell for less profit because people can farm for it themselves, but you also need less money because you can reliably farm for stuff yourself.

In the end the change is that in stead of finding the one best farm in terms of loot quantity and doing it for months on end coughsilverwastesandbalmcough you get to determine your objective, and do different content every day in pursuit of it.

How is that not an improvement?

Well its not an improvement if you play sPvP or WvW… but then again that’s buisness as usual, we already know Anet only care about PvE.

Did you miss the bit where sPvP and WvW have shiny new drops that they can sell to PvE heads, because the PvE heads need those drops to build their legendaries?

PopeUrban.2578:

Dawdler.8521:

PopeUrban.2578:

Calm down.

They are nerfing salvage because they are moving resources to a less RNG system: Map rewards.

Need silk? In stead of doing whatever it is you do to get 5000 worthless greens and hoping some of them are cloth, and getting frustrated when they are not, you in stead open your map and go “okay, today there’s cloth in brisban wildlands”

And tomorrow, you play a different zone for cloth, and the next day yet another different zone.

On top of that you’re still getting some RNG drops for stuff you’re not specifically after, and selling that for profit.

It will sell for less profit because people can farm for it themselves, but you also need less money because you can reliably farm for stuff yourself.

In the end the change is that in stead of finding the one best farm in terms of loot quantity and doing it for months on end coughsilverwastesandbalmcough you get to determine your objective, and do different content every day in pursuit of it.

How is that not an improvement?

Well its not an improvement if you play sPvP or WvW… but then again that’s buisness as usual, we already know Anet only care about PvE.

Did you miss the bit where sPvP and WvW have shiny new drops that they can sell to PvE heads, because the PvE heads need those drops to build their legendaries?

Cool. Then those of us that pvp and wvw can get rich. Oh, wait…

PopeUrban.2578:

Calm down.

They are nerfing salvage because they are moving resources to a less RNG system: Map rewards.

Need silk? In stead of doing whatever it is you do to get 5000 worthless greens and hoping some of them are cloth, and getting frustrated when they are not, you in stead open your map and go “okay, today there’s cloth in brisban wildlands”

And tomorrow, you play a different zone for cloth, and the next day yet another different zone.

On top of that you’re still getting some RNG drops for stuff you’re not specifically after, and selling that for profit.

It will sell for less profit because people can farm for it themselves, but you also need less money because you can reliably farm for stuff yourself.

In the end the change is that in stead of finding the one best farm in terms of loot quantity and doing it for months on end coughsilverwastesandbalmcough you get to determine your objective, and do different content every day in pursuit of it.

How is that not an improvement?

No, they are nerfing salvage, because of all the naughty people salvaging and opening bags with their lvl 53 characters. Because god forbid them to get money with linen scraps.

Celtic Lady.3729:

PopeUrban.2578:

Dawdler.8521:

PopeUrban.2578:

Calm down.

They are nerfing salvage because they are moving resources to a less RNG system: Map rewards.

Need silk? In stead of doing whatever it is you do to get 5000 worthless greens and hoping some of them are cloth, and getting frustrated when they are not, you in stead open your map and go “okay, today there’s cloth in brisban wildlands”

And tomorrow, you play a different zone for cloth, and the next day yet another different zone.

On top of that you’re still getting some RNG drops for stuff you’re not specifically after, and selling that for profit.

It will sell for less profit because people can farm for it themselves, but you also need less money because you can reliably farm for stuff yourself.

In the end the change is that in stead of finding the one best farm in terms of loot quantity and doing it for months on end coughsilverwastesandbalmcough you get to determine your objective, and do different content every day in pursuit of it.

How is that not an improvement?

Well its not an improvement if you play sPvP or WvW… but then again that’s buisness as usual, we already know Anet only care about PvE.

Did you miss the bit where sPvP and WvW have shiny new drops that they can sell to PvE heads, because the PvE heads need those drops to build their legendaries?

Cool. Then those of us that pvp and wvw can get rich. Oh, wait…

Maybe?

Linfang.1087:

So does this effect the usefulness of the copper and silver salvagmatics?

Unlikely. The ‘usefulness’ of salvagematics is determined by measuring against other salvage kits. That won’t change. If the drop rate of salvageable gear is reduced it will take longer (measured in hours not salvages) for a salvagematic to pay for itself.

PopeUrban.2578:

Celtic Lady.3729:

PopeUrban.2578:

Dawdler.8521:

PopeUrban.2578:

Calm down.

They are nerfing salvage because they are moving resources to a less RNG system: Map rewards.

Need silk? In stead of doing whatever it is you do to get 5000 worthless greens and hoping some of them are cloth, and getting frustrated when they are not, you in stead open your map and go “okay, today there’s cloth in brisban wildlands”

And tomorrow, you play a different zone for cloth, and the next day yet another different zone.

On top of that you’re still getting some RNG drops for stuff you’re not specifically after, and selling that for profit.

It will sell for less profit because people can farm for it themselves, but you also need less money because you can reliably farm for stuff yourself.

In the end the change is that in stead of finding the one best farm in terms of loot quantity and doing it for months on end coughsilverwastesandbalmcough you get to determine your objective, and do different content every day in pursuit of it.

How is that not an improvement?

Well its not an improvement if you play sPvP or WvW… but then again that’s buisness as usual, we already know Anet only care about PvE.

Did you miss the bit where sPvP and WvW have shiny new drops that they can sell to PvE heads, because the PvE heads need those drops to build their legendaries?

Cool. Then those of us that pvp and wvw can get rich. Oh, wait…

Maybe?

Maybe.

Might end up just being a big money shuffle for those people as they sell their mode specific items in order to have enough gold to purchase other components they need. Just depends on how the prices balance out.

Lévis.5489:

PopeUrban.2578:

Calm down.

They are nerfing salvage because they are moving resources to a less RNG system: Map rewards.

Need silk? In stead of doing whatever it is you do to get 5000 worthless greens and hoping some of them are cloth, and getting frustrated when they are not, you in stead open your map and go “okay, today there’s cloth in brisban wildlands”

And tomorrow, you play a different zone for cloth, and the next day yet another different zone.

On top of that you’re still getting some RNG drops for stuff you’re not specifically after, and selling that for profit.

It will sell for less profit because people can farm for it themselves, but you also need less money because you can reliably farm for stuff yourself.

In the end the change is that in stead of finding the one best farm in terms of loot quantity and doing it for months on end coughsilverwastesandbalmcough you get to determine your objective, and do different content every day in pursuit of it.

How is that not an improvement?

No, they are nerfing salvage, because of all the naughty people salvaging and opening bags with their lvl 53 characters. Because god forbid them to get money with linen scraps.

Except for that part where you can go to a level 50 map and, you know get the scraps from map rewards

They’re moving in the direction of Earning>Trading.

Up to this point it’s been a seller’s market. You don’t reliably acquire all the mats you need for thing X, so you sell most of your acquisitions, and buy them from the aggregate farming power of the entire player base, and they do the same from you.

That sucks. It means the only way to get practically anything is from the market.

The system they’re moving toward is, basically, allowing you to choose whether you focus on farming for the thing you need, OR buying it.

Options are good. Right?

Aretak.3826:

Anet has always prioritised ‘the economy’ too much, to the extent it destroys how players interact with the game. Most gameplay is so horribly unrewarding compared to effort put in, and those with the most money are TP manipulators that rarely even touch actual content. It creates a huge barrier between players, things they might need and rewards they’ve earned.

One of the best comments around the topic.

There once was a game, let’s call it “Devil 3” for a second. It was sold a gazillion times because players liked its predecessor, but somehow it never really was really fun to play. Then the dev company decided for a brave step: instead of forcing players to farm for in game money (or even spend real money) to buy overpriced items they did not receive as loot drops because of crappy drop rates for “economy reasons”, they complete removed that auction house, more or less removed trading as a whole and then increased the loot drops so that you finally had a chance to receive the items yourself. And Bang, suddenly the game started to become fun again.

Personally, in my future gaming life, I am quite sure I will forgo games with an “economy” or someone specially taking care of it. It seems to be a safe sign for an unrewarding, un-heroesqe gaming experience.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

PopeUrban.2578:

Celtic Lady.3729:

PopeUrban.2578:

Dawdler.8521:

PopeUrban.2578:

Calm down.

They are nerfing salvage because they are moving resources to a less RNG system: Map rewards.

Need silk? In stead of doing whatever it is you do to get 5000 worthless greens and hoping some of them are cloth, and getting frustrated when they are not, you in stead open your map and go “okay, today there’s cloth in brisban wildlands”

And tomorrow, you play a different zone for cloth, and the next day yet another different zone.

On top of that you’re still getting some RNG drops for stuff you’re not specifically after, and selling that for profit.

It will sell for less profit because people can farm for it themselves, but you also need less money because you can reliably farm for stuff yourself.

In the end the change is that in stead of finding the one best farm in terms of loot quantity and doing it for months on end coughsilverwastesandbalmcough you get to determine your objective, and do different content every day in pursuit of it.

How is that not an improvement?

Well its not an improvement if you play sPvP or WvW… but then again that’s buisness as usual, we already know Anet only care about PvE.

Did you miss the bit where sPvP and WvW have shiny new drops that they can sell to PvE heads, because the PvE heads need those drops to build their legendaries?

Cool. Then those of us that pvp and wvw can get rich. Oh, wait…

Maybe?

Maybe.

Might end up just being a big money shuffle for those people as they sell their mode specific items in order to have enough gold to purchase other components they need. Just depends on how the prices balance out.

You know what needs to happen with these? More drops for winning in higher ranked games in sPvP, or higher ranked server win bonus chests in WvW. Thus, the players that are regularly winning, and in higher ranked play would potentially be getting rich, which the newbies are making a little money, and the guys in the middle are basically just money shuffling around the average income of non-insanity farm PvE.

I’d give way more of a kitten about the score if my server winning meant my participation chest could buy me more shinies, or more of a kitten about my sPvP rank if ranking up and winning meant making substantially more money.

Halvorn.9831:

Aretak.3826:

Anet has always prioritised ‘the economy’ too much, to the extent it destroys how players interact with the game. Most gameplay is so horribly unrewarding compared to effort put in, and those with the most money are TP manipulators that rarely even touch actual content. It creates a huge barrier between players, things they might need and rewards they’ve earned.

One of the best comments around the topic.

There once was a game, let’s call it “Devil 3” for a second. It was sold a gazillion times because players liked its predecessor, but somehow it never really was really fun to play. Then the dev company decided for a brave step: instead of forcing players to farm for in game money (or even spend real money) to buy overpriced items they did not receive as loot drops because of crappy drop rates for “economy reasons”, they complete removed that auction house, more or less removed trading as a whole and then increased the loot drops so that you finally had a chance to receive the items yourself. And Bang, suddenly the game started to become fun again.

Personally, in my future gaming life, I am quite sure I will forgo games with an “economy” or someone specially taking care of it. It seems to be a safe sign for an unrewarding, un-heroesqe gaming experience.

And once you have everything now that you can quickly get what you want? How rewarding will the gaming experience be then?

Halvorn.9831:

Aretak.3826:

Anet has always prioritised ‘the economy’ too much, to the extent it destroys how players interact with the game. Most gameplay is so horribly unrewarding compared to effort put in, and those with the most money are TP manipulators that rarely even touch actual content. It creates a huge barrier between players, things they might need and rewards they’ve earned.

One of the best comments around the topic.

There once was a game, let’s call it “Devil 3” for a second. It was sold a gazillion times because players liked its predecessor, but somehow it never really was really fun to play. Then the dev company decided for a brave step: instead of forcing players to farm for in game money (or even spend real money) to buy overpriced items they did not receive as loot drops because of crappy drop rates for “economy reasons”, they complete removed that auction house, more or less removed trading as a whole and then increased the loot drops so that you finally had a chance to receive the items yourself. And Bang, suddenly the game started to become fun again.

Personally, in my future gaming life, I am quite sure I will forgo games with an “economy” or someone specially taking care of it. It seems to be a safe sign for an unrewarding, un-heroesqe gaming experience.

lol funny how “name redacted” Entertainment wanted to copy the monumental success of “Devil 2” when said game got by just fine with a direct barter system to the point that gold had no purpose other than repairing gear.

It’s interesting how that also applies here.

Ayrilana.1396:

And once you have everything now that you can quickly get what you want? How rewarding will the gaming experience be then?

I am not suggesting that Game A should copy the exact strategy of Game B.

I am just saying that I can think of long-term rewarding gaming experiences without an “economy”.

Halvorn.9831:

Ayrilana.1396:

And once you have everything now that you can quickly get what you want? How rewarding will the gaming experience be then?

I am not suggesting that Game A should copy the exact strategy of Game B.

I am just saying that I can think of long-term rewarding gaming experiences without an “economy”.

More RNG and/or grind. Just think about playing this game but without using the TP at all. Think about making ascended equipment but without using the TP. How about legendary weapons/armor? You’ll now have to farm all of those materials directly.

Ayrilana.1396:

And once you have everything now that you can quickly get what you want? How rewarding will the gaming experience be then?

lol somebody’s never played the Diablo series of games if you seriously think “getting the drop” = “getting the best version of that drop”

Halvorn.9831:

Aretak.3826:

Anet has always prioritised ‘the economy’ too much, to the extent it destroys how players interact with the game. Most gameplay is so horribly unrewarding compared to effort put in, and those with the most money are TP manipulators that rarely even touch actual content. It creates a huge barrier between players, things they might need and rewards they’ve earned.

One of the best comments around the topic.

There once was a game, let’s call it “Devil 3” for a second. It was sold a gazillion times because players liked its predecessor, but somehow it never really was really fun to play. Then the dev company decided for a brave step: instead of forcing players to farm for in game money (or even spend real money) to buy overpriced items they did not receive as loot drops because of crappy drop rates for “economy reasons”, they complete removed that auction house, more or less removed trading as a whole and then increased the loot drops so that you finally had a chance to receive the items yourself. And Bang, suddenly the game started to become fun again.

Personally, in my future gaming life, I am quite sure I will forgo games with an “economy” or someone specially taking care of it. It seems to be a safe sign for an unrewarding, un-heroesqe gaming experience.

“Devil 3” also destroyed the value of its in game currency with sloppy currency controls. I am a conspicuous gather (the opposite of a conspicuous consumer) and have mixed feelings about this business of being a hero. However, a game developer that monetizes its in-game economy and then employs zero or ridiculously feeble monetary policy is NOT the equivalent of a game developer that monetizes its in-game economy and employs sound monetary policy.

PopeUrban.2578:

You know what needs to happen with these? More drops for winning in higher ranked games in sPvP, or higher ranked server win bonus chests in WvW. Thus, the players that are regularly winning, and in higher ranked play would potentially be getting rich, which the newbies are making a little money, and the guys in the middle are basically just money shuffling around the average income of non-insanity farm PvE.

I’d give way more of a kitten about the score if my server winning meant my participation chest could buy me more shinies, or more of a kitten about my sPvP rank if ranking up and winning meant making substantially more money.

I can agree with getting more for winning high ranked pvp matches. Sort of. There is a personal skill component there, which does in itself deserve rewarding.

I can’t necessarily agree with the WvW example though. There is too much outside of one’s personal control there, and it would encourage further server stacking in order to get those rewards. We need to find a better way to implement things for that game mode. Something that rewards individual skilled play, while still encouraging the group play. However we don’t want it to encourage the server stacking which just results in screwing over people that don’t server jump, nor do we want to encourage servers to intentionally throw matches. I don’t have any suggestions, but I’m still mulling it over.

Psientist.6437:

Dawdler.8521:

I get most parts and it may not be as nefarious as it sounds (Anet want to nerf leather drops? Yeah, they can keep their kittening leather). However…

Map rewards are specific, tangible rewards you receive from playing on a map. They allow players to balance overpriced items as well as seek specific materials for their personal goals without constant uncertainty. Map rewards are pretty great but are a constant enemy of scarcity. Map-reward materials can no longer be overpriced for any extended period of time because players now have the power to push the supply when needed. This shifts the power from the supplier of a rare good to the buyer, because the buyer now has the option to refrain from buying and still achieve goals, which is what we wanted.

Can someone post an English translation please? :/

He is trying to walk a tight rope. John Smith et al wants scarcity but also wants players to have access to items without turning to the TP. Map rewards will reward players with specific and predictable rare rewards; that limits scarcity (drives down the price by increasing the supply) but also means players won’t have to turn to the TP for those rare items.

edit: lol I think between all the replies we covered it

No. The TP is a necessary evil to control the money supply. What JS wants to do is liberate supply from the few who are willing to do a particular type of content (Giant Eyes, some T6 mats) and making a killing on the TP because of it by introducing another reward system that a player can obtain these extremely rare/costly mats on their own without the onerous grind for the mat or the grind to raise the gold to buy them.

Ayrilana.1396:

More RNG and/or grind. Just think about playing this game but without using the TP at all. Think about making ascended equipment but without using the TP. How about legendary weapons/armor? You’ll now have to farm all of those materials directly.

I’ve made all my ascended euipment without using the TP and that with the current crappy drop rates. What could be worse than that? I wouldn’t have enjoyed a run-in-circles money farm more than that. I want to play a game and be rewarded for my actions in game in a direct way.

I have received one precursor drop from a chest reward in game directly. That was the best moment in three years of playing. It is completely uncomparable to 3 years of money farming and buying from the TP.

Substance E.4852:

Ayrilana.1396:

And once you have everything now that you can quickly get what you want? How rewarding will the gaming experience be then?

lol somebody’s never played the Diablo series of games if you seriously think “getting the drop” = “getting the best version of that drop”

I’ve played both Diablo and Diablo 2. My previous posts had nothing to do with that series. Thanks.

Halvorn.9831:

Ayrilana.1396:

More RNG and/or grind. Just think about playing this game but without using the TP at all. Think about making ascended equipment but without using the TP. How about legendary weapons/armor? You’ll now have to farm all of those materials directly.

I’ve made all my ascended euipment without using the TP and that with the current crappy drop rates. What could be worse than that? I wouldn’t have enjoyed a run-in-circles money farm more than that. I want to play a game and be rewarded for my actions in game in a direct way.

I have received one precursor drop from a chest reward in game directly. That was the best moment in three years of playing. It is completely uncomparable to 3 years of money farming and buying from the TP.

I’m not implying there is anything worse than what you said. In fact, that’s exactly what I was suggesting things would be. All materials would have to be gathered directly (including silk).