Guild Wars 2

Terrible idea, the TP is a godsend for the usual churn and getting a hold of whatever isn’t bound.

I do agree with others though, I wouldn’t mind the -additional- option to do direct trades like in GW1. I have guild mates I’ve run with a long time, but if a precursor dropped and they wanted to buy, I don’t -know- they wouldn’t stiff me on a mail based trade (nor do they know I wouldn’t), so we’re forced to go TP and burn a chunk of coin on the middleman for what should have simply been a direct barter.

cyn.2157:

Terrible idea, the TP is a godsend for the usual churn and getting a hold of whatever isn’t bound.

I do agree with others though, I wouldn’t mind the -additional- option to do direct trades like in GW1. I have guild mates I’ve run with a long time, but if a precursor dropped and they wanted to buy, I don’t -know- they wouldn’t stiff me on a mail based trade (nor do they know I wouldn’t), so we’re forced to go TP and burn a chunk of coin on the middleman for what should have simply been a direct barter.

On the other hand scams of that nature still occurred in GW1 with that trading system. How do you propose a foolproof way of avoiding that?

Silent The Gray.3091:

I agree with OP, player to player trading would be a godsend, it would level out the prices on things which Anet tries so hard to micromanage.

which prices of which items are they micromanaging?

TL;DR: I came here to post my support for direct player-to-player trading and realized while typing out my thoughts that the trading post is a far superior system in nearly every way.

Putting aside the fact that it will never happen, I don’t think removing the trading post is a good idea. I think the majority of players who use it regularly are happy with the safety of each transaction. It has effectively removed the possibility of player trading scams.

I’ve thought about this a bit over the last day or so and initially I came here to post support for including both player-to-player trading and the trading post. Trouble is, every time I put my thoughts into writing and re-read what I’d written, it didn’t make logical sense. Here are the counters to my own arguments that I was about to make:

1.) I had originally wanted to say that direct player-to-player trading could help alleviate those who get a high ticket item and don’t want to pay the TP fees to list it or wait the long period of time for the item to sell. But! Those TP fees are good for the economy since they act as a gold sink to help keep inflation in check, and regarding the long wait time? I’m keenly aware of just how long you have to wait and how much you have to spam map or trade chat in GW1 when you want to sell something. I do not miss those days of idling in Kamadan trying to sell a few rare minis from birthday presents. The time spent spamming trade chat every few minutes and waiting for a buyer vastly outweighs the time it takes for an item to sell on the trading post, but more importantly: you can post the item on TP and go do something else.

And regarding those TP fees? Well, they don’t look so bad anymore when you consider that after a few hours of trying to sell something in GW1 you’ll inevitably have to lower your asking price (sometimes considerably) to finally pique a buyer’s interest and finally rid yourself of this item you’ve been trying to sell for so long (sometimes weeks or months).

2.) Wanting a player-to-player trading system so you can exchange equipment or items with random players you meet in the world. While it might be convenient to have a relatively safe direct trade window, the simple counter for this is that you still have that option. Mail the item directly to the player you want to trade with and they can mail you directly as well. There you go. Trade complete. But what if you don’t trust that other player to hold up their end of the bargain? Then you have a perfectly safe system to use—the Trading Post. If you’re concerned that another player is going to scam you and run away with your gold, why would you want to trade with that person in the first place? If it’s a guild member or friend you want to trade with, why would you be concerned at using the mail system? And if you are that concerned—once again, using the TP will solve your problem.

3.) I’ll admit, there is an excitement that comes from “shopping” player stalls in an MMO and stumbling across someone that’s selling something that you either really want or something that they’ve severely underpriced. There’s a similar excitement to running your own shop and leaving yourself logged in overnight only to find that in the morning, all of your stuff has sold. That was great. But the convenience of having every tradeable item at your fingertips vastly outweighs the excitement of bargain hunting in player shops, and you can still get the same excitement from watching your stuff sell on the trading post. When you have something listed for several hundred gold and someone finally buys it, that little exclamation point over the TP icon can put a quick grin on your face.

Khisanth.2948:

On the other hand scams of that nature still occurred in GW1 with that trading system. How do you propose a foolproof way of avoiding that?

Scams of that nature literally could not occur in GW1 with the trading system, because the confirmation prompts acted as an escrow system – exactly what was being traded was visible before the trade was finalized, so if I approved a trade without them offering the money – that’s really my own fault.

Assuming you’re referring to the “inexpensive item that uses the same icon” trades, I personally chock that up to someone not being careful – but seeing as anything you trade -could- be similarly placed on the TP – I guess I would load the TP price up and have a prompt that says “you saved X gold over selling this on the TP” / “you saved X gold over buying this on the TP” – simple enough.

That way, for e.g., if you went to buy The Anomaly from someone but they offered up a Crystal Core – when you entered your 225g purchase (or whatever), and they offered up an item that’s worth less than a silver, the trade window could get real nasty and ugly looking and warn the user that they’re severely overpaying – or prevent the trade entirely, I suppose.

Lack of a trading post is what led most of my friends who tried GW1 to eventually abandon that game. Removing the TP from GW2 would likely kill the game off entirely.

no, no, and no.

also, no.

cyn.2157:

Khisanth.2948:

On the other hand scams of that nature still occurred in GW1 with that trading system. How do you propose a foolproof way of avoiding that?

Scams of that nature literally could not occur in GW1 with the trading system, because the confirmation prompts acted as an escrow system – exactly what was being traded was visible before the trade was finalized, so if I approved a trade without them offering the money – that’s really my own fault.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scam

By definition a scam will take advantage of another persons good faith, inexperience, hurry or any other type unfortunate reason why someone fell for it.

A person being unattentive is no ground of basis to call something impossible. It’s improbable but as long as it’s possible, people will fall for it. Scams on the TP are possible too but since there is a middleman, very much harder to pull off.

There is a very famous idiom:

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me

- https://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/fool+me+once+shame+on+you+fool+me+twice+shame+on+me.html

It literally states that if a person gets taken advantage of more than once, it’s their fault. This does not mean the scam did not happen though.

tl;dr: a system is only scam proof if there is literally no way to take advantage of another person no matter how gullible they are. The GW1 system was NOT scam proof.

When I remember those good ol’ days of hangin’ around in Kamadan or LA for hours only to buy this or that and then, as a casual, never knowing if that one person had just put me over the barrel… I’d rather stick with the current system, thank you.

Cyninja.2954:

tl;dr: a system is only scam proof if there is literally no way to take advantage of another person no matter how gullible they are. The GW1 system was NOT scam proof.

In fact, the other side didn’t need to do any shenanigans to scam you. All that was needed was for you to be unaware of what the other, more experienced players would pay for the item.

Remember, that one of the good sources of income was buying dyes from new players in presearing. New players were unaware that the droprate in the rest of the game was much worse, and that dyes were worth a lot more than they were being offered. With a gamewide TP taking advantage of those players that way would have been much, much harder.

Basically, any system that doesn’t allow you to easily compare prices ingame is a system that promotes scamming.

Astralporing.1957:

Cyninja.2954:

tl;dr: a system is only scam proof if there is literally no way to take advantage of another person no matter how gullible they are. The GW1 system was NOT scam proof.

In fact, the other side didn’t need to do any shenanigans to scam you. All that was needed was for you to be unaware of what the other, more experienced players would pay for the item.

Remember, that one of the good sources of income was buying dyes from new players in presearing. New players were unaware that the droprate in the rest of the game was much worse, and that dyes were worth a lot more than they were being offered. With a gamewide TP taking advantage of those players that way would have been much, much harder.

Basically, any system that doesn’t allow you to easily compare prices ingame is a system that promotes scamming.

Agreed.

I had absolutely forgotten about dyes being bought up and having lower drop rates due to bigger loot pools later on in the game.

Cyninja.2954:

Astralporing.1957:

Cyninja.2954:

tl;dr: a system is only scam proof if there is literally no way to take advantage of another person no matter how gullible they are. The GW1 system was NOT scam proof.

In fact, the other side didn’t need to do any shenanigans to scam you. All that was needed was for you to be unaware of what the other, more experienced players would pay for the item.

Remember, that one of the good sources of income was buying dyes from new players in presearing. New players were unaware that the droprate in the rest of the game was much worse, and that dyes were worth a lot more than they were being offered. With a gamewide TP taking advantage of those players that way would have been much, much harder.

Basically, any system that doesn’t allow you to easily compare prices ingame is a system that promotes scamming.

Agreed.

I had absolutely forgotten about dyes being bought up and having lower drop rates due to bigger loot pools later on in the game.

I got caught out by that one.

I got a black dye in pre-searing and since I didn’t want it I went to sell it to a merchant. I asked why it was only worth 1g (equivalent to 1 copper in GW2) and someone said it is a shame they’re not worth much but they’d generously give me 10g for it since I was new.

I later found out they almost certainly sold it in post-searing for a few thousand gold.

Silent The Gray.3091:

Plautze.6290:

When I remember those good ol’ days of hangin’ around in Kamadan or LA for hours only to buy this or that and then, as a casual, never knowing if that one person had just put me over the barrel… I’d rather stick with the current system, thank you.

So… exactly like real life? What’s wrong with that? It teaches people to educate themselves before making a purchase or trade.

What’s right with that? This isn’t EVE online — people aren’t here to become shrewd at trading; they came to play an epic RPG and trading is incidental.

It can be fun for a game to copy parts of RL; it’s not fun for it to mimic all aspects .

I’ve never hated a suggestion more. Do Not Want.

The only people that would benefit from this would be those who don’t want to sell for fair market price.

The all-knowing wiki states this:

“A role-playing video game (commonly referred to as role-playing game or RPG, and in the past also known as computer role-playing game or CRPG) is a video game genre where the player controls the actions of a character (and/or several party members) immersed in some well-defined world.”

How is GW2 not an RPG?

Silent The Gray.3091:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Silent The Gray.3091:

Plautze.6290:

When I remember those good ol’ days of hangin’ around in Kamadan or LA for hours only to buy this or that and then, as a casual, never knowing if that one person had just put me over the barrel… I’d rather stick with the current system, thank you.

So… exactly like real life? What’s wrong with that? It teaches people to educate themselves before making a purchase or trade.

What’s right with that? This isn’t EVE online — people aren’t here to become shrewd at trading; they came to play an epic RPG and trading is incidental.

It can be fun for a game to copy parts of RL; it’s not fun for it to mimic all aspects .

again with the RPG nonsense, there is no single component of any other RPG in the world that this game has, GW2 is an MMO, not an RPG

halfwrong gw2 is a mmorpg. Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. unless you are actually a hero of tyria and fight dragons irl this is in fact a rpg also. if i wanted absolutely horrible trading that took a entire lifetime to amass wealth i would just do it irl and make tons of money with that gamble. i play games for fun not for a headache of realism.

When I was much, much younger, many years ago, this is how I used to buy gold from gold sellers. (And ill probably get infracted for saying that too). This is a terrible idea, leave the TP as the gold sink that is.

Silent The Gray.3091:

Plautze.6290:

When I remember those good ol’ days of hangin’ around in Kamadan or LA for hours only to buy this or that and then, as a casual, never knowing if that one person had just put me over the barrel… I’d rather stick with the current system, thank you.

So… exactly like real life? What’s wrong with that? It teaches people to educate themselves before making a purchase or trade.

Because there isn’t a way to find the current price of items in gw1. At best you can find what other people hope to buy or sell it for. There’s no good way to find out what it’s actually selling for. And who wants to spend time researching the price on every single item they have when
1) they may never sell it no matter how long they spend spamming /wts and
2) they’re there to have fun killing stuff. Not scan through pages of trade chat.

sophiewhite.3149:

Silent The Gray.3091:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Silent The Gray.3091:

Plautze.6290:

When I remember those good ol’ days of hangin’ around in Kamadan or LA for hours only to buy this or that and then, as a casual, never knowing if that one person had just put me over the barrel… I’d rather stick with the current system, thank you.

So… exactly like real life? What’s wrong with that? It teaches people to educate themselves before making a purchase or trade.

What’s right with that? This isn’t EVE online — people aren’t here to become shrewd at trading; they came to play an epic RPG and trading is incidental.

It can be fun for a game to copy parts of RL; it’s not fun for it to mimic all aspects .

again with the RPG nonsense, there is no single component of any other RPG in the world that this game has, GW2 is an MMO, not an RPG

halfwrong gw2 is a mmorpg. Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. unless you are actually a hero of tyria and fight dragons irl this is in fact a rpg also. if i wanted absolutely horrible trading that took a entire lifetime to amass wealth i would just do it irl and make tons of money with that gamble. i play games for fun not for a headache of realism.

GW2 is more like a Massively Multiplayer Online Battle Arena than RPG.

Silent The Gray.3091:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Silent The Gray.3091:

Plautze.6290:

When I remember those good ol’ days of hangin’ around in Kamadan or LA for hours only to buy this or that and then, as a casual, never knowing if that one person had just put me over the barrel… I’d rather stick with the current system, thank you.

So… exactly like real life? What’s wrong with that? It teaches people to educate themselves before making a purchase or trade.

What’s right with that? This isn’t EVE online — people aren’t here to become shrewd at trading; they came to play an epic RPG and trading is incidental.

It can be fun for a game to copy parts of RL; it’s not fun for it to mimic all aspects .

again with the RPG nonsense, there is no single component of any other RPG in the world that this game has, GW2 is an MMO, not an RPG

Again, without addressing the substance of someone’s remark

“epic RPG” is the style of the game; it’s how the world refers to the genre, not necessarily how you or I might think of “RPG.” So forget about my use of the phrase “epic RPG” and try to address my question:

What is so great about allowing scamming to happen more easily that makes it worth ANet’s time to add it to this game? How will it improve the game for existing players? Will it encourage more people to buy the game? Will it make it more fun for the vast majority to trade?

Silent The Gray.3091:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Silent The Gray.3091:

Plautze.6290:

When I remember those good ol’ days of hangin’ around in Kamadan or LA for hours only to buy this or that and then, as a casual, never knowing if that one person had just put me over the barrel… I’d rather stick with the current system, thank you.

So… exactly like real life? What’s wrong with that? It teaches people to educate themselves before making a purchase or trade.

Because there isn’t a way to find the current price of items in gw1. At best you can find what other people hope to buy or sell it for. There’s no good way to find out what it’s actually selling for. And who wants to spend time researching the price on every single item they have when
1) they may never sell it no matter how long they spend spamming /wts and
2) they’re there to have fun killing stuff. Not scan through pages of trade chat.

Welcome to economics 101, I know it is hard to grasp, but this is how you find the price of items in the real world, unless you just pay whatever people charge without a second thought.

Good thing I have the internet, stores selling items both new and used, libraries, government statistics, newspapers, etc in real life to research prices.

Tell me, what resources do players in a game have to find current prices of goods in a game with no trading post such as gw1? If current prices aren’t available, does economics 101 even apply?

Haishao.6851:

sophiewhite.3149:

Silent The Gray.3091:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Silent The Gray.3091:

Plautze.6290:

When I remember those good ol’ days of hangin’ around in Kamadan or LA for hours only to buy this or that and then, as a casual, never knowing if that one person had just put me over the barrel… I’d rather stick with the current system, thank you.

So… exactly like real life? What’s wrong with that? It teaches people to educate themselves before making a purchase or trade.

What’s right with that? This isn’t EVE online — people aren’t here to become shrewd at trading; they came to play an epic RPG and trading is incidental.

It can be fun for a game to copy parts of RL; it’s not fun for it to mimic all aspects .

again with the RPG nonsense, there is no single component of any other RPG in the world that this game has, GW2 is an MMO, not an RPG

halfwrong gw2 is a mmorpg. Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. unless you are actually a hero of tyria and fight dragons irl this is in fact a rpg also. if i wanted absolutely horrible trading that took a entire lifetime to amass wealth i would just do it irl and make tons of money with that gamble. i play games for fun not for a headache of realism.

GW2 is more like a Massively Multiplayer Online Battle Arena than RPG.

No, it’s a Massively Multiplayer Online Party Platforming Game.

EremiteAngel.9765:

…will remain there while I afk…

…This makes the game more interactive….

Lol.

Silent The Gray.3091:

again with the RPG nonsense, there is no single component of any other RPG in the world that this game has, GW2 is an MMO, not an RPG

Gw2 has plenty of components that exist in both role playing games and massively multiplayer online role playing games.

From Wikipedia:

A role-playing game (RPG and sometimes roleplaying game¹²) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting.

Also simply taking from the knowledge of,rpgs of the top of my head, GW2 has the following in common with many rpgs:

A story with some choices (however minimal the impact of those choices are)
A consistent world
Several races and classes/professions/crafting disciplines
A combat system
Leveling up, gear progression (not treadmill)
Some aspect of exploration
Interaction with characters
A system that progresses the story

Here’s some stuff GW2 has in common with mmorpgs:
Raids/dungeons/instances content
Large number of players interacting and playing with each other on the same maps
Guilds
The ability to specifically form groups of specific sizes to accomplish more difficult tasks
A world that is consistent even when you are offline and progresses regardless of your presence
Seasonal festivals/activities

So really, you are objectively wrong for saying that GW2 has no component of any other rpg. Objectively, GW2 shares components with rpgs and mmorpgs.

As for the topic at hand, the trading post does not need to be removed. It can definitely be improved, but scrapping it entirely is one of the worst things you can do to GW2 (which was designed from the ground up with the trading post in mind, so you’d have to do a planet sized amount of work to restructure and rebalance the game to accommodate for the new system. The amount of work surrounding a drastic change like that alone would be enough to create an expansion, maybe two).

So as much nope to the suggestion as there exists nope in the universe.

Wow worst idea I’ve ever seen on the forums.

I just felt the need to come in here and echo the others who have said this is probably the worst idea in GW2’s history.

Trading stalls belong in hardcore RP games where there aren’t systems of any kind and the whole world runs on the player’s imaginations.

For people who want to play a game though, it’s akin to asking ArenaNet to remove all the skills and just make a game where we have to pretend what each of our keyboard keys do.