Guild Wars 2

The living story has had its second shot at our hearts, and for me I feel like quantity wise, there still isn’t enough content to be matched by what could with an expansion. In the 1st half of the living story, we had 1 very big first patch followed by 3 much smaller patches. So far for the 2nd half, it seems to be the same story. If each patch could be matched equally in quantity, then I think things would be very significant for season 2.

After 6-7 months of having the living story, we will have had 2 new maps from what I can see. Is that really enough? The world of Tyria is enormous, dozens of maps, yet in the games history we’ve only ever had 3 released. Anet still seems to be very focused on getting us to play the same content we’ve had for the last 2.5 years rather than giving us lots of new content to do.

I also think a very good and bad point of the second season are the living story instances. They are good bits of content to put in the game. They explain lore very well, and have lots of nice imagery. However the replayability factor is completely absent after you’ve done the achievements.

I think its incredibly sad we haven’t yet and perhaps won’t see any new fractals/dungeons for the duration of the living story. I think the game needs a change, the living story clearly isn’t enough. We need a mix of expansions or either a new content cycle for the living story.

I find it a bit premature to claim it was not enough before it is actually over.

The living story isn’t going to be “expansion worthy” until all of those journal entries add up to roughly $60 (that’s if we’re lucky). Each entry costs $2.50 to unlock if you missed it. There will be 8 entries before the end of the year (from Gates of Maguuma → present). That’s only $20. It will probably take till this time next year for $60 worth to be released. If they keep with the same format the whole time, it will be missing things like new dungeons, raids, playable races, skills, weapon types, classes, etc.

So far story wise there has been HOURS of content added just with the story instances. Couple that with the replay ability and yeah it could be Expansion worthy. Just because its trickled in doesn’t negate it. When the season is over you can put it all together and play it all at once… most people consume Expansions in a couple of weeks… it doesn’t take that long.

Paradox.1380:

So far story wise there has been HOURS of content added just with the story instances. Couple that with the replay ability and yeah it could be Expansion worthy. Just because its trickled in doesn’t negate it. When the season is over you can put it all together and play it all at once… most people consume Expansions in a couple of weeks… it doesn’t take that long.

Well unless we’re talking Reaper of Souls, which could be consumed in a single night except for the endless types of content added in it.

But, naturally, I recall MMO expansions from the eras previously being consumed to “endgame” within a week, and within a month walkthroughs and strategies being posted. (Ah Safehouse, how I loved you for that.)

So, I’m curious… why exactly is everyone assuming there won’t be a new dungeon/raid/etc. introduced via Living World?

I mean, they’re clearly moving us towards a confrontation with Mordremoth, and assuming they follow the method they used for Zhaitan, there will eventually be a new dungeon.

Paradox.1380:

So far story wise there has been HOURS of content added just with the story instances. Couple that with the replay ability and yeah it could be Expansion worthy. Just because its trickled in doesn’t negate it. When the season is over you can put it all together and play it all at once… most people consume Expansions in a couple of weeks… it doesn’t take that long.

You could consume all of season 2 in as little as 8 or 10 hours, even with taking the time to read dialogue and not rush it. People expect a lot more out of an MMO. As I said, so far there’s been less than $20 of content released in season 2 so far (add up the gem costs for those that missed it). When it reaches $40+ we can start judging it for expansion worthiness.

Thing is, we can pretty much extrapolate with some simple math. If it took me 10 hours to clear $20 of stuff, logically it would take me 20 hours to clear $40. Now for a $40-$50 game, 20 hours is pretty standard. But for an MMO? Idk.

Quantity wise?.. no its not enough. Quality wise?.. also no, while there were some nice environment, the story writing is as terrible as always and the content is way too easy.

Also i don’t know why people thinks the dollar value is the same or less than expansion. People mostly care about the time it took for adding such content. 1 Year for such minuscule amount of content that can be finished in less than a day is pretty sad. Ofc the biggest update is always the gemstore and its “shinies” because thats where the real end game is right?

Ykfox.3825:

So, I’m curious… why exactly is everyone assuming there won’t be a new dungeon/raid/etc. introduced via Living World?

I mean, they’re clearly moving us towards a confrontation with Mordremoth, and assuming they follow the method they used for Zhaitan, there will eventually be a new dungeon.

I think a lot of people are rather cynical about the direction of this game nowadays. A lot of glass half empty. From the player perspective, the game moves at a snails pace, and the communication is just not there.

- Raids might be a pipe dream
- Zhaitan was a terrible fight that no one wants to see repeated
- thus far the story has only come in ~2 hour bite sized pieces
- each episode feels like a promotional release alongside gem store items
- the cool new maps seem to be the one most redeeming element in GW2’s future

People are starved for some kind of really big, amazing thing that (from past experience with other games) only an expansion would bring. Can you honestly see an entire new profession, continent, or playable race added through the living story? The scope of each episode is much too small to accommodate those things.

Speaking of new continents, at the rate Anet is releasing new maps, it will be 2035 by the time we make it to Elona or Cantha.

Ykfox.3825:

So, I’m curious… why exactly is everyone assuming there won’t be a new dungeon/raid/etc. introduced via Living World?

I mean, they’re clearly moving us towards a confrontation with Mordremoth, and assuming they follow the method they used for Zhaitan, there will eventually be a new dungeon.

Because they fired their dungeon team more than a year ago .

Xenon.4537:

Ykfox.3825:

So, I’m curious… why exactly is everyone assuming there won’t be a new dungeon/raid/etc. introduced via Living World?

I mean, they’re clearly moving us towards a confrontation with Mordremoth, and assuming they follow the method they used for Zhaitan, there will eventually be a new dungeon.

I think a lot of people are rather cynical about the direction of this game nowadays. A lot of glass half empty. From the player perspective, the game moves at a snails pace, and the communication is just not there.

- Raids might be a pipe dream
- Zhaitan was a terrible fight that no one wants to see repeated
- thus far the story has only come in ~2 hour bite sized pieces
- each episode feels like a promotional release alongside gem store items
- the cool new maps seem to be the one most redeeming element in GW2’s future

People are starved for some kind of really big, amazing thing that (from past experience with other games) only an expansion would bring. Can you honestly see an entire new profession, continent, or playable race added through the living story? The scope of each episode is much too small to accommodate those things.

Speaking of new continents, at the rate Anet is releasing new maps, it will be 2035 by the time we make it to Elona or Cantha.

I can honestly see a new race being added through the living story. Hell Edge of the Mists was added through a living story so why not a new race?

Csele.1647:

Ykfox.3825:

So, I’m curious… why exactly is everyone assuming there won’t be a new dungeon/raid/etc. introduced via Living World?

I mean, they’re clearly moving us towards a confrontation with Mordremoth, and assuming they follow the method they used for Zhaitan, there will eventually be a new dungeon.

Because they fired their dungeon team more than a year ago .

They didn’t fire the dungeon team. One guy left the company, the rest of the team is still working there, but they’re no longer a dungeon team.

Since the dungeon team has been disbanded, dungeons have been added to this game.

Let’s keep the misinformation at a minimum.

Vayne.8563:

I can honestly see a new race being added through the living story. Hell Edge of the Mists was added through a living story so why not a new race?

Well I got halfway through a rebuttal before changing my mind. I do have some reservations though. I don’t personally believe Anet has any plans in the near or far future to add a new race via the living world, and here’s why.

Let’s use Tengu as an example. If Anet were to somehow introduce them as a playable race, they would have to draw them in to the story in a huge way. It would probably require an entire arc, if not an entire season to do it justice. Here’s how I see it happening:

Pre- Season X
- Tengu are mentioned more and more
- the story hints at Tengu involvement in the future

Season X
- episode 1: something big happens causing Tengu to be dragged in to the fight against the elder dragons, the become a playable race. This opens a starter zone for players to bring their Tengu in to the world in the proper context of the story having Zhaitan and Scarlet defeated, etc etc.
- episode 2: The Tengu are still new to the alliance against the dragons and political drama ensues. New content is added/revamped to a low-mid level zone allowing for intermediate Tengus to progress as characters.
- episode 3, 4, 5, 6, 7: Tengu continue to develop as a race in the story and establish their place among the other races. New content is added for every 10 or so levels up to 80 to allow fresh Tengu players to progress through a story similar to the personal story.
- episode 8: Season finale. The Tengu as a race establish their roll alongside the other races as a powerful force to fight the dragons. Tengu players are expected to be 80 by the time they play this episode.

The reason I see it happening this way is because it would make little sense to just throw Tengu into the old personal story. Releasing them via the living world means they should take center stage in the story. What kind of story would the Tengu have, and how could it possibly be condensed into anything less than a whole season with multiple episodes? Or at least one very big episode? But then it might as well be an actual expansion.

Anyway, I would love to see it happen, but chances are Anet is going to just keep churning out the same thing they have since season 2 started: ~2 hour story bites with a nifty new map and some armor/weapon skins to work towards.

Ykfox.3825:

So, I’m curious… why exactly is everyone assuming there won’t be a new dungeon/raid/etc. introduced via Living World?

I mean, they’re clearly moving us towards a confrontation with Mordremoth, and assuming they follow the method they used for Zhaitan, there will eventually be a new dungeon.

About the 4:20 mark what you take out of it is dependent on what your definition of what a meaningful piece of dungeon content is (My personal standard for a dungeon addition is a story arc scenario + explorable mode with different playouts and a dungeon represented gear set selection to be in line with the production values of current instanced dungeon content outside of FoTM).

Although it can mean anything depending on what your own definitions are, it can imply for some people like myself to not look forward to high production value dungeon content (EDIT: Akin to the design model of current dungeon content with explorable mode access)for future releases.

Xenon.4537:

Vayne.8563:

I can honestly see a new race being added through the living story. Hell Edge of the Mists was added through a living story so why not a new race?

Well I got halfway through a rebuttal before changing my mind. I do have some reservations though. I don’t personally believe Anet has any plans in the near or far future to add a new race via the living world, and here’s why.

Let’s use Tengu as an example. If Anet were to somehow introduce them as a playable race, they would have to draw them in to the story in a huge way. It would probably require an entire arc, if not an entire season to do it justice. Here’s how I see it happening:

Pre- Season X
- Tengu are mentioned more and more
- the story hints at Tengu involvement in the future

Season X
- episode 1: something big happens causing Tengu to be dragged in to the fight against the elder dragons, the become a playable race. This opens a starter zone for players to bring their Tengu in to the world in the proper context of the story having Zhaitan and Scarlet defeated, etc etc.
- episode 2: The Tengu are still new to the alliance against the dragons and political drama ensues. New content is added/revamped to a low-mid level zone allowing for intermediate Tengus to progress as characters.
- episode 3, 4, 5, 6, 7: Tengu continue to develop as a race in the story and establish their place among the other races. New content is added for every 10 or so levels up to 80 to allow fresh Tengu players to progress through a story similar to the personal story.
- episode 8: Season finale. The Tengu as a race establish their roll alongside the other races as a powerful force to fight the dragons. Tengu players are expected to be 80 by the time they play this episode.

The reason I see it happening this way is because it would make little sense to just throw Tengu into the old personal story. Releasing them via the living world means they should take center stage in the story. What kind of story would the Tengu have, and how could it possibly be condensed into anything less than a whole season with multiple episodes? Or at least one very big episode? But then it might as well be an actual expansion.

Anyway, I would love to see it happen, but chances are Anet is going to just keep churning out the same thing they have since season 2 started: ~2 hour story bites with a nifty new map and some armor/weapon skins to work towards.

Possibly. But we know the Tengu were there and closed their doors. What if the Tengu were simply attacked and our response, in spite of their past refusal to side with us, is to help rescue them.

It really could be that easy. It doesn’t require a big build up. You can have a big build up, or you can simply use the shock of something unexpected. Both are valid dramatic tools.

Vayne.8563:

Possibly. But we know the Tengu were there and closed their doors. What if the Tengu were simply attacked and our response, in spite of their past refusal to side with us, is to help rescue them.

It really could be that easy. It doesn’t require a big build up. You can have a big build up, or you can simply use the shock of something unexpected. Both are valid dramatic tools.

I could see it both ways, such as after we kill Mordremoth (it’s coming soon and you know it) Primordius is the next to step up to the plate and invades the Dominion of Winds . . . forcing the Tengu out, and the Pact has to push back in to destroy the beachhead of the Destroyers coming to the surface en masse.

Afterwards, the Tengu grudgingly side with the races of Tyria during the first break of LS3 and everyone gets a new character slot free and access to Tengu as a new race. They also bring with them new training methods which produce new skills which can be learned through Skill Challenges inside the Dominion of Winds and the tengu lands.

Boom. There you go, new race, new skills, and the break can be used for players to adjust to the new offerings before going back to the story.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

Possibly. But we know the Tengu were there and closed their doors. What if the Tengu were simply attacked and our response, in spite of their past refusal to side with us, is to help rescue them.

It really could be that easy. It doesn’t require a big build up. You can have a big build up, or you can simply use the shock of something unexpected. Both are valid dramatic tools.

I could see it both ways, such as after we kill Mordremoth (it’s coming soon and you know it) Primordius is the next to step up to the plate and invades the Dominion of Winds . . . forcing the Tengu out, and the Pact has to push back in to destroy the beachhead of the Destroyers coming to the surface en masse.

Afterwards, the Tengu grudgingly side with the races of Tyria during the first break of LS3 and everyone gets a new character slot free and access to Tengu as a new race. They also bring with them new training methods which produce new skills which can be learned through Skill Challenges inside the Dominion of Winds and the tengu lands.

Boom. There you go, new race, new skills, and the break can be used for players to adjust to the new offerings before going back to the story.

But even if it’s possible, I still believe they’re working on an actual expansion. I’ll take it either way.

Vayne.8563:

But even if it’s possible, I still believe they’re working on an actual expansion. I’ll take it either way.

I don’t believe they are, if only because it doesn’t seem like it. What it seems more like is they’re looking at a redesign of PvE experience (with the new AI specialist) and possibly working on raids (CDI and the apparent hiring of people to handle that), so . . . expansion? I don’t see it in the cards.

Something big? Well, we’ll see.

Personally, whatever happens I expect the forums to be storming the doors with pitchforks and torches anyway.

It would be nice if LS updates were more substantial but, not pointlessly (running in a circle) so. An update every two weeks is nice but… Well, I guess I’d rather pay for more content. Maybe I’m just expansion hungry. But if we do get an expansion, I still want LS on top of that because I’m greedy. And if the expansion is good, I would really like to have several of them without having to wait 2 or 3 years between each one.