Guild Wars 2

Anet introduced Essence of Luck to solve their Magic Find dilemma. But once we have maxed out MF it seems a reasonable expectation that there is a secondary use for the essences. Note* – please don’t give us another busy work treasure hunt for a geegaw or a collection that uses Sam……

Zet.9130:

Anet introduced Essence of Luck to solve their Magic Find dilemma. But once we have maxed out MF it seems a reasonable expectation that there is a secondary use for the essences. Note* – please don’t give us another busy work treasure hunt for a geegaw or a collection that uses Sam……

It doesn’t seem like a reasonable expectation to me. It takes an extraordinary amount of luck to max MF, so much that it will never be maxed without going far out of your way to do so: buying stuff on TP or farming ToT bags etc.

Put another way: I see how adding additional uses would benefit the tiny subset of players who have 300% MF-from-luck. I don’t see how it benefits the community as a whole.

Perhaps my perspective is wrong. I’d have thought that more than “a tiny subset” of players would have maxed MF by now. Either way I think it short sighted to introduce a single use currency (of which I have an overabundance). I’m running out of storage space and it seems a waste to delete them.

Well I salvaged ALL of my greens and blue since introduction and I am at 225% MF (BASE)….

Leaving me 75 * 30000 luck shy of 300 % MF (2.25M luck) which in the present amount for me when playing is about 225-300 days or so… (7500-10k Luck a day)

SO I really do not think this should be a problem atm.

I suggest:

For our 4th birthday we get a luck eater giving only blues and greens in return ENJOY ! Of course only exotic luck will do as it’s picky. Call it Puck, Puck for Luck

The real concern is how pointless MF is now with event based loot rewards. Luckily MF will stay relevant in Fractals/Dungeons/Raids.

So what if it’s a “tiny subset of players?”

I’m nowhere near 300mf and I think it is completely reasonable to want another use for essences. It might even be nice as an alternate for those who don’t care to max their magic find.

It’s already a crafting ingredient, so maybe it can be used to make some actual potions and gear (aside from just upgrading the ram backpack) using crafting or the MF.

And a luck eater the functions like Mawdrey II, Princess or The Star of Gratitude, seems like a perfectly fine idea.

Why not?

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Zet.9130:

Anet introduced Essence of Luck to solve their Magic Find dilemma. But once we have maxed out MF it seems a reasonable expectation that there is a secondary use for the essences. Note* – please don’t give us another busy work treasure hunt for a geegaw or a collection that uses Sam……

It doesn’t seem like a reasonable expectation to me. It takes an extraordinary amount of luck to max MF, so much that it will never be maxed without going far out of your way to do so: buying stuff on TP or farming ToT bags etc.

Put another way: I see how adding additional uses would benefit the tiny subset of players who have 300% MF-from-luck. I don’t see how it benefits the community as a whole.

I also dont see why it would be a bad thing. At least then, people know what to expect, once they max it out.

I think there are armor skins that you start obtaining at 30k+ AP, which is also for a tiny subset of players.

Nope, tiny subset, while I’ve obviously not talked to every player in the game I ask around a lot, I’ve met only a handful with 300% (in game, here’s different, forums tend to have a higher percentage of more hardcore players, so a higher % of forum users will have max than in game, from my observations).

Essence of Luck really needs to not have another use.
You and the rest of the 300%ers made a choice to grind out to max MF, knowing there was no other use for it. Why should you be given another use for it now that you’ve reached the logical conclusion of your actions?
Why should you be rewarded on top of the reward that is having max MF??
Max MF was your reward for maxing it.

There is nothing wrong with a single use currency. (though in truth there are crafting recipes that use essence of luck, so its already not truly single use)
It’s served its purpose, and now its done and you no longer need it.
Either save it in teh hopes of a future up to the max MF (unlikely), save some for crafting mawdrey/future legendaries, and scrap the rest.
It’s not a waste, once you hit 300% its no different than the vendor trash you get from everything, except you can’t sell it.

I’ll admit I’m the type of player that gets a goal and works hard at reaching it. I maxed MF by buying greens and salvaging them for the essences. What I found is that it could be a profitable process and have continued doing it.

Thus the stacks of Essences of Luck in my bank. We all play our own game I’m just hoping that someday there will be an additional use for this currency.

They should simply write a little “if then else” code that salvaging no longer produces
essences of luck as soon as you have reached 300. Problem solved.

And give a green item instead for the daily login rewards ^^

The problem is that the purpose of Luck is to increase MF on an account.
If Anet gave Luck any other beneficial use, then players that have not maxed MF would always have to choose: Do I want to increase my MF? Or do I want to use this Luck for something else? And that would completely kill Luck’s original purpose.
So, if Anet decides to give Luck any other uses, they can only be ‘one time only things’, or uses that are far, far inferior to adding Luck to your account MF, so that people wouldn’t even consider keeping their luck as long as they can still increase their MF with it.

Some of you are missing the bigger picture.

A game like GW2 will be played for a decade, perhaps longer. Making common rewards with a finite usefulness is short sighted.

There should be a secondary use for luck – probably one that is relatively trivial and not an competing incentive compared to using it for magic find. I would like to suggest 5 lucks from the masterwork, rare and exotic tier plus 1 ecto = 1 spirit shard.

There are a lot of things that could be done with it, but it needs a secondary use.

When this system was first implemented, it gave blue and green drops more than just trivial value. Well, try selling those items now – nobody is buying them.

I think they should also consider increasing the cap on magic find. Make 400 take 40k at a time and 500 take 50k at a time to level.

AzureSky.3175:

The problem is that the purpose of Luck is to increase MF on an account.
If Anet gave Luck any other beneficial use, then players that have not maxed MF would always have to choose: Do I want to increase my MF? Or do I want to use this Luck for something else? And that would completely kill Luck’s original purpose.
So, if Anet decides to give Luck any other uses, they can only be ‘one time only things’, or uses that are far, far inferior to adding Luck to your account MF, so that people wouldn’t even consider keeping their luck as long as they can still increase their MF with it.

Not at all. Luck has a definite purpose. Giving player a choice only extends the usefulness of the luck items.

I mean even if there were several great ways to spend luck, using it to add MF only results in you finding more items that salvage into luck items…so its immensely useful, even more useful if there is a reason to use luck past MF cap….

So adding secondary uses only makes MF more useful, as well as providing extended need to salvage items for more than materials.

It’s something worth considering. As the population ages, more of us will reach that 300% max. It doesn’t even necessarily warrant an “eater,” but some other way to expend them without feeling like a waste.
Agreed with the above idea on expanding their use as crafting material. Perhaps a new recipe that fuses several exotic lucks into spirit shards. (I think I recommended that in the other thread too. :P)
Or perhaps a once/day vendor that uses several exotic luck and a payment of gold and returns some kind of MF-enabled chest. Or something akin to the skritt vendors, without the silly ecto-gambling that (briefly) disrupted the market.

We’ll probably a use for luck currency in the future. Just on the forums, we generated plenty of ideas, but ANet is obviously going to be more careful about it.

AzureSky.3175:

The problem is that the purpose of Luck is to increase MF on an account.

Exactly, AzureSky states it clearly. The reality is that Magic Find has a cap. So what use does Anet propose for this currency after the cap has been reached? They keep giving it to me as a daily reward!

AzureSky.3175:

The problem is that the purpose of Luck is to increase MF on an account.
If Anet gave Luck any other beneficial use, then players that have not maxed MF would always have to choose: Do I want to increase my MF? Or do I want to use this Luck for something else? And that would completely kill Luck’s original purpose.

This is a significant reason why it’s not better for the community as a whole.

Dreamslayer.7659:

A game like GW2 will be played for a decade, perhaps longer. Making common rewards with a finite usefulness is short sighted.

This is the first comment I’ve seen addressing why it’s better for the game to introduce additional uses. Even assuming I’m right to think that only a tiny subset of people have maxed MF today, Dreamslayer correctly points out that eventually, lots of people will max it out, simply by playing the game. And I’m persuaded that it’s, in general, a poor strategy to create a substance that accumulates without end and that eventually will have no use.

I think ANet might have dug itself a hole: AzureSky points out that newer players would be forced to choose between maxing MF and the secondary purpose (or would feel forced to max MF so they could take advantage of the secondary purpose). And Dreamslayer is correct that, eventually, a large part of the population is going to suffer this issue.

However, there are still other possible approaches to dealing with this:

• Simplest: create a toggle to prevent luck from dropping from salvaging blue|green|ecto.
• Less simple: accounts with max luck get slightly better salvage rates (and no luck). Not enough to make it worth maxing MF more quickly; just enough so that people feel they are still getting something.
• Less simple: add additional tiers of MF, growing exponentially, so that it’s never possible to max MF. Each person can decide on their own personal diminishing returns. Could also work with a toggle, for those who don’t want to deal with luck any longer.
• Complicated: adding new uses for luck, since those would have to be balanced for the economy and overall reward system.

I think that adding additional uses for essences is a good idea for the following reasons:

1) eventually, at least in theory, everyone will max out their Luck/MF but essences continue to drop.

2) rewards in game seem to be shifting in a manner that reduces the utility of MF. An alternate means of using essences might help reduce the negative effect on maxed MF of the apparent current trend in reward systems.

3) choices in rewards are generally a good thing IMO.

Thank you.

I mentioned in another thread and it was mentioned here. Luck is 1/7th of your daily rewards.

I’ve been forging some of my greens into rares with a mystic forge conduit. That’s neater but I’m not sure whether it’s a net loss due to the loss of crafting mats, it probably is and I’ve taken to only forging the leather items.

There are some other, similar issues in the game – not as severe, but account bound minis that cannot be forged, account bound mail carriers in BL Chests and a very small percentage of us are still very disappointed that our 3rd year birthday gift is, so far, not usable for people with all dyes unlocked.

a luck eater would be nice.

in the mean time, I make use of the luck for it’s current secondary use :P well, at least the blue ones.
lucky great ram lantern = lucky ram lantern + 250 blue luck + 25 lunar new year fireworks + 20 bottles of elonian wine
usually gives about a 3g profit, so 1s20c per luck
unfortunately, you can’t downgrade luck. I stopped trying to get luck around 270% mf, and now only use green and higher to actually add luck.

StrangerDanger.3496:

Not at all. Luck has a definite purpose. Giving player a choice only extends the usefulness of the luck items.

…but kills the purpose.

StrangerDanger.3496:

I mean even if there were several great ways to spend luck, using it to add MF only results in you finding more items that salvage into luck items…so its immensely useful, even more useful if there is a reason to use luck past MF cap….

So adding secondary uses only makes MF more useful, as well as providing extended need to salvage items for more than materials.

You need 150 exotic Essences of luck to get from 218%MF to 219%MF.
As soon as a ‘luck eater’ or anything else will give you more profit for 150 exo Essences than this 1% MF difference will give you in the next three years, nobody will use luck to increase MF anymore.
So, the profit that can be earned using luck needs to be incredibly small.
Or it needs to convert luck into something that a player can never turn into gold directly or indirectly.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I think ANet might have dug itself a hole: AzureSky points out that newer players would be forced to choose between maxing MF and the secondary purpose (or would feel forced to max MF so they could take advantage of the secondary purpose). And Dreamslayer is correct that, eventually, a large part of the population is going to suffer this issue.

However, there are still other possible approaches to dealing with this:

• Simplest: create a toggle to prevent luck from dropping from salvaging blue|green|ecto.
• Less simple: accounts with max luck get slightly better salvage rates (and no luck). Not enough to make it worth maxing MF more quickly; just enough so that people feel they are still getting something.
• Less simple: add additional tiers of MF, growing exponentially, so that it’s never possible to max MF. Each person can decide on their own personal diminishing returns. Could also work with a toggle, for those who don’t want to deal with luck any longer.
• Complicated: adding new uses for luck, since those would have to be balanced for the economy and overall reward system.

This sums it up perfectly.

What it doesn’t need is a use that would compete with using it for MF.

Basically, creating any incentive for players that haven’t maxed their MF would throw off the economic balance of blues and greens.

I’d suggest adding a repeatable achievement for it in stead, similar to agent of entropy. once you max MF, you unlock the achievement. Now every X amount of luck consumed grants 2 AP, say whatever the number is for the last 1% of MF.

The trick here is to not make the amount so low that people can supercharge their AP overnight, but low enough that occasionally they’ll see that AP gain. After all, having 300% MF and continuing to eat luck seems pretty in line with other repeatable achievements.

Now you still have a reason to consume luck, but you’re not really that much more incentivized to acquire it than you were when you were getting MF for it, and since achievement points are already designed as a sort of capless total, luck retains its status as a thing that’s generally useful and desirable, but not so much more useful and desirable than simply selling or using the things you had to salvage to get it.

PopeUrban, that’s a pretty good idea.

I think the biggest issue for me is the idea, that if I ever reach 300% MF, 1/7 of my daily log in rewards become useless. Economy imbalance would be a problem, but maybe add something where combining four exotic essences of luck in the mystic forge gives you a chance for a mystic forge stone or some other limited, but relatively useful item, or a low chance for runes/orbs/doubloons, etc.

I would be ecstatic if it just didn’t give it to me I just leave a stack of each type on my character and throw it away once it caps off. But maybe an option could become available to not receive luck / minor sigils and runes. Also no one wants grey items and an option to not autoloot them would help tremendously

waterlemon.6574:

no one wants grey items

Grey items pay for my WP habit.

PopeUrban.2578:

What it doesn’t need is a use that would compete with using it for MF.

Basically, creating any incentive for players that haven’t maxed their MF would throw off the economic balance of blues and greens.

I’d suggest adding a repeatable achievement for it in stead, similar to agent of entropy. once you max MF, you unlock the achievement. Now every X amount of luck consumed grants 2 AP, say whatever the number is for the last 1% of MF.

The trick here is to not make the amount so low that people can supercharge their AP overnight, but low enough that occasionally they’ll see that AP gain. After all, having 300% MF and continuing to eat luck seems pretty in line with other repeatable achievements.

Now you still have a reason to consume luck, but you’re not really that much more incentivized to acquire it than you were when you were getting MF for it, and since achievement points are already designed as a sort of capless total, luck retains its status as a thing that’s generally useful and desirable, but not so much more useful and desirable than simply selling or using the things you had to salvage to get it.

You are consistently spiffy, Urban.
Very well thought out idea.

re: though in truth there are crafting recipes that use essence of luck, so its already not truly single use – The only crafting use I can see for essences of luck is to refine them to higher tier essences of luck:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Essence_of_Luck

What other recipes are there?

its used in the creation of both grow lamps

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Essence_of_Luck_

What about putting stacks of Exotic essence into the forge and get a BL ticket out or a token of some description that can be used to forge a precursor?

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

For our 4th birthday we get a luck eater giving only blues and greens in return ENJOY ! Of course only exotic luck will do as it’s picky. Call it Puck, Puck for Luck

We already have a luck eater. It is called the Mystic forge.

zxstanyxz.8769:

its used in the creation of both grow lamps

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Essence_of_Luck_

The lamp is of little use. One of the materials used in crafting is time gated so every 10 days a lamp can be crafted. It takes a lower level essence, because of space all my Luck has been refined into exotic stacks. The lamp is no solution.