Guild Wars 2

Hi all,

My 1st maiden post – before I begin, would like to touch briefly on GW1 in order to provide the context for my post.

GW1:
Most of my friends (WOW players) felt GW1 was crap. One of my friend got sick of WOW and tried GW1, only to declare GW1 was bullkitten and returned back to WOW. His main gripes were low max level of 20, skinny PvE content (which he completed in hours) and lack of end-game content. He complained that he wasted his dollars on the game.

Ironically, I on the other hand played GW1 for years. The reason why GW1 didnt work for him was that he thought GW1 was WOW – it isnt!

The PvE content was actually a “tutorial” – familiarizing new players with the game mechanics kitten to prepare them for the game itself – Player Versus Player.

The strategies (personal build and team build), the outstanding PvP gameplay, the heart-stopping adrenaline was the value he paid for but missed out.

Moving onto GW2:
I was initially surprised that GW2 would be more mainstream MMORPG oriented – openworld concept, heavier PvE content, max level of 80.

I thought Anet was going to make another WOW and that made me put off the game – till I tried it and realize that nothing has changed from GW1.

The way to see GW2 as it is – would be to see it as Battlefield / Counterstrike with a meaty story / campaign mode.

The lack of end-game content (bored of dungeons) and no new incentives to continue playing PvE (except to farm for your cosmetic lengendary) points to this – moving players to WvW and PvP where the heart of the game is.

I anticipate there would be players who would come out saying they are PvE-only players and what Anet is doing to PvE is unfair for this group of people who has paid good money for the game.

In response, I would respectfully point out that – you bought the wrong game – akin to gamers who had bought counterstrike where they would be better off playing Crysis or Far Cry.

I do agree that sPvP needs massive improvements/make-over but that doesnt derail the fact that WvW and sPvP is the game itself.

Also, if you look at it, we paid 60-70 bucks for a game (with no subscriptions) but offers us 3 different game modes – emphasizing on 1 aspect (PvE) would prevent you from extracting the full value out of the game.

On legendaries:
A legendary is absolutely not necessary for a player to play the game. Not having a legendary does not in any way disadvantage you against other players. This is different from WOW (where they have to keep you paying the subscription) – where you have to farm for that l33t item in order to have a leg up against other players or bosses.

Legendary is a choice – if you want it bad enough, farm it.

This is what I like about GW – where skills matters instead of say 1000 hours of gaming.

On living story:
A nice gesture by Anet – providing fresh content – keeping players entertained when they are done by levelling to 80, off hours from PvP or WvW.

If this game really was about WvW and (God help us all) sPvP, let me ask you the following two questions:
1) Why have ALL of the content patches not included ANY WvW additional maps, buildings, areas or equipment (apart from traps, which are a gimmick at best)? There have been minor changes, no focus on it by the developers at all.

2) Why has every single content patch included new PVE instances, events and areas?

You just WANT what you are saying to be true…but sadly I think you bought the wrong game.

Edit: there was an announcement that they are making some changes to the way WvW rewards people….but nothing about new content.

This is a good post…but I don’t completely agree with it.

When Guild Wars 1 started out (and I probably played it as much as you), it was exactly what you said it was…but it wasn’t what it became.

Originally Anet had put a lot of effort into PvP, but as the years passed, more and more effort was put into PvE. Nightfall and Eye of the North, the last two products made, did almost nothing for PvP. There was a reason for this. Anet saw that very loyal, die hard following of people who never PvPed at all…or hardly ever anyway. I was one of them.

I played Guild Wars 1 PvE for five years (a bit more actually, since I went back to help guildies get their 30/50 in the HoM). I have GWAMM and 50/50 in my HoM, but my main focus was PVe. In addition, I didn’t care about “end game” in PvE. I didn’t care about The Underworld or FoW or DOA. Sure I did everything once (including the Deep and Urgoz’s Warren) but I didn’t enjoy that style of play.

Instead I was an altoholic and I really enjoyed making new characters and just taking them through the games. I know most people would be bored silly, but I wasn’t and a lot of other people, apparently, weren’t also. Because there were four games out, there was plenty of content for me and then the Z quests kicked in, that was a big help. Then War in Kryta, which was actually sorta fun (the first few times anyway). I didn’t mind Hearts of the North, but Winds of Change was super meh. lol

The point is Anet moved away from the PvP end game, because people DO like PvE and even in other games, the percentage of people that raid are actually very small. Look at how popular games like Skyrim are. No PvP at all and no real end game..but they’re popular as hell. Why? Because more people like to muck about in the open world than most people suspect.

Anet barely spoke about PvP for an entire year when the game was annouced. Why? Anet said because Guild Wars 1 had a reputation for PvP and they wanted to break people of that prejudice (paraphrased, but it’s what they said).

All this content coming out every week or two is far more about PvE than PvP. Even the minigames are more geared toward less structure and more just having fun. It might be PvP, but it’s PvP where you can’t team at all, so everyone is on their own. Not the organized PvP of Guild Wars 1.

Anet learned what I’d suspected for a long time. A lot of people play MMOs and neither PvP nor do end game PvE. They just sort of enjoy mucking around in the world with friends.

Why? I have no idea. But I can tell you in all truth, if PvP was the focus, there’s be a lot less focus on the living story.

pricer.5091:

If this game really was about WvW and (God help us all) sPvP, let me ask you the following two questions:
1) Why have ALL of the content patches not included ANY WvW additional maps, buildings, areas or equipment (apart from traps, which are a gimmick at best)? There have been minor changes, no focus on it by the developers at all.

2) Why has every single content patch included new PVE instances, events and areas?

You just WANT what you are saying to be true…but sadly I think you bought the wrong game.

Edit: there was an announcement that they are making some changes to the way WvW rewards people….but nothing about new content.

Hi Pricer, you have correctly pointed out #1 and #2 – which I agree.

In my view, PvE content is different from PvP and WvW. PvP & WvW’s fun factor comes from killing and pwning players – every match is different. Running CoF 100 times is mechanical while playing PvP on the same match 100 times gets you different results.

Hence, the urgency to provide fresh PvE content to pacify the PvE-ers.

PvP does seem to be in need of a major haul-over. Anet has pointed they are going to do something about it on many occasion. I’m giving them time given that balancing / re-making PvP is going to be much more tricky than providing fresh living story content.

Edit: I’m still very much in love with the game and I enjoy all aspect of it – PvE, PvP and WvW =)

Edit 2: There’s also Crab Toss and Dragonball who are PvP oriented in the living story content… I suspect Anet is using these to test out some new PvP mechanics which they could implement in upcoming PvP changes….(hopefully)

Vayne.8563:

This is a good post…but I don’t completely agree with it.

When Guild Wars 1 started out (and I probably played it as much as you), it was exactly what you said it was…but it wasn’t what it became.

Originally Anet had put a lot of effort into PvP, but as the years passed, more and more effort was put into PvE. Nightfall and Eye of the North, the last two products made, did almost nothing for PvP. There was a reason for this. Anet saw that very loyal, die hard following of people who never PvPed at all…or hardly ever anyway. I was one of them.

I played Guild Wars 1 PvE for five years (a bit more actually, since I went back to help guildies get their 30/50 in the HoM). I have GWAMM and 50/50 in my HoM, but my main focus was PVe. In addition, I didn’t care about “end game” in PvE. I didn’t care about The Underworld or FoW or DOA. Sure I did everything once (including the Deep and Urgoz’s Warren) but I didn’t enjoy that style of play.

Instead I was an altoholic and I really enjoyed making new characters and just taking them through the games. I know most people would be bored silly, but I wasn’t and a lot of other people, apparently, weren’t also. Because there were four games out, there was plenty of content for me and then the Z quests kicked in, that was a big help. Then War in Kryta, which was actually sorta fun (the first few times anyway). I didn’t mind Hearts of the North, but Winds of Change was super meh. lol

The point is Anet moved away from the PvP end game, because people DO like PvE and even in other games, the percentage of people that raid are actually very small. Look at how popular games like Skyrim are. No PvP at all and no real end game..but they’re popular as hell. Why? Because more people like to muck about in the open world than most people suspect.

Anet barely spoke about PvP for an entire year when the game was annouced. Why? Anet said because Guild Wars 1 had a reputation for PvP and they wanted to break people of that prejudice (paraphrased, but it’s what they said).

All this content coming out every week or two is far more about PvE than PvP. Even the minigames are more geared toward less structure and more just having fun. It might be PvP, but it’s PvP where you can’t team at all, so everyone is on their own. Not the organized PvP of Guild Wars 1.

Anet learned what I’d suspected for a long time. A lot of people play MMOs and neither PvP nor do end game PvE. They just sort of enjoy mucking around in the world with friends.

Why? I have no idea. But I can tell you in all truth, if PvP was the focus, there’s be a lot less focus on the living story.

Hi Vayne,

Good to see a loyal and old-time GW player! Please don’t get me wrong – I have no quarrel with PvE players who genuinely enjoy the game. My post is targeted at players who seem to see GW through a WoW / Korean hardcore grinding MMO lens.

To fault GW for what it is not – would be unfair in my view.

Agree with your thoughts on fresh content being PvE focused. Kindly see my reply to Pricer.

Evangelion.1732:

to see it as Battlefield / Counterstrike with a meaty story / campaign mode.

moving players to WvW and PvP where the heart of the game is.

WvW and sPvP is the game itself.

Also, if you look at it, we paid 60-70 bucks for a game (with no subscriptions) but offers us 3 different game modes – emphasizing on 1 aspect (PvE) would prevent you from extracting the full value out of the game.

for me, after trying out gw2 during beta weekend. i always tell others that gw2 is 3 in 1 games

1. open world PvE – skyrim with friends.
2. WvW – dynasty warriors, romance of the 3 kingdoms
3. sPvP – team fortress 2

unfortunately, nc soft realized that only the #1 group of players are farm-able. hence nc soft ordered anet to please the #1 group of people only.

another problem with the #1 group of players is that they absolutely refuse to try out game modes #2 and #3.

pesky carebears they are. pffft.

pricer.5091:

If this game really was about WvW and (God help us all) sPvP, let me ask you the following two questions:
1) Why have ALL of the content patches not included ANY WvW additional maps, buildings, areas or equipment (apart from traps, which are a gimmick at best)? There have been minor changes, no focus on it by the developers at all.

2) Why has every single content patch included new PVE instances, events and areas?

You just WANT what you are saying to be true…but sadly I think you bought the wrong game.

Edit: there was an announcement that they are making some changes to the way WvW rewards people….but nothing about new content.

this is due to nc soft realizing only PvE focused people are more likely to spend real dollars on gems.

hence, nc soft ordered anet to focus on PvE content in order to farm the PvE focused people.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Evangelion.1732:

to see it as Battlefield / Counterstrike with a meaty story / campaign mode.

moving players to WvW and PvP where the heart of the game is.

WvW and sPvP is the game itself.

Also, if you look at it, we paid 60-70 bucks for a game (with no subscriptions) but offers us 3 different game modes – emphasizing on 1 aspect (PvE) would prevent you from extracting the full value out of the game.

for me, after trying out gw2 during beta weekend. i always tell others that gw2 is 3 in 1 games

1. open world PvE – skyrim with friends.
2. WvW – dynasty warriors, romance of the 3 kingdoms
3. sPvP – team fortress 2

unfortunately, nc soft realized that only the #1 group of players are farm-able. hence nc soft ordered anet to please the #1 group of people only.

another problem with the #1 group of players is that they absolutely refuse to try out game modes #2 and #3.

pesky carebears they are. pffft.

Agreed – we actually paid for 3 games and I do all 3 for the complete GW2 experience. I hope I don’t come across as bashing all PvE players. If they enjoy a pure PvE experience, by all means go for it. My grip, as mentioned, is with players who bought the game thinking its WoW only to find out its not.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

pricer.5091:

If this game really was about WvW and (God help us all) sPvP, let me ask you the following two questions:
1) Why have ALL of the content patches not included ANY WvW additional maps, buildings, areas or equipment (apart from traps, which are a gimmick at best)? There have been minor changes, no focus on it by the developers at all.

2) Why has every single content patch included new PVE instances, events and areas?

You just WANT what you are saying to be true…but sadly I think you bought the wrong game.

Edit: there was an announcement that they are making some changes to the way WvW rewards people….but nothing about new content.

this is due to nc soft realizing only PvE focused people are more likely to spend real dollars on gems.

hence, nc soft ordered anet to focus on PvE content in order to farm the PvE focused people.

I’m guilty of this haha. I bought 800 gems in order to provide a level speed boost (through crafting) for one of my alts.

I’m with Vayne. Most people don’t PVP and don’t do hard-core PVE either. Most people just play because they want to burn an hour or two in the evening, and they want it to be fun. They play an MMO because interactions with other people are more fun than playing strictly single-player RPGs.

GW2 is a game that offers the RPG adventure of Zelda, Fable, Elder Scrolls in an MMO world. It’s the game really for people who play a single player game and wonder what it’d be like as an MMO.

sPVP in this game is awful. Probably the worst PVP since people were playing against each other over modem. Custom arena glory exploits are laughable as get out and spectating and joining a match at the end with the winners? Boring cookie cutter bunker builds and broken skill/mechanics. What’s not to love?

There is a simple caveat I take into every new game I go to. “Play the game that you came to play and not the one you left behind”.

Follow that and you will never have a problem adapting to a new game. Fail to follow it and you will always be looking backwards saying “but <insert game> had this!”

What a joke post… Skills matter? in GW1 u needed skill,, In GW2 u don’t. There is no skill in GW2. I could play blind and still defeat any boss in the game. I saw an Anet video about a new dungeon and they said it was going to Soooo hard content. When they released it, i saw people 3 manning it without a problem… What a joke.

GW1 was great, so was WoW. Both had their own style. I didn’t really like WoW because of the grinding, but i still think it’s one of the best mmo’s ever made. GW1 was perfect for me. I loved the instanced & skilled play. Going into GW2, the game was just bad. The game felt grindish (cus it is (legend.)) and i missed ALL the aspects of the original gw. No deck-building, no skill, no instances & high level numbers making 90% of the map useless.

At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how you look at a game. A game is what it is, if it’s too easy, it’s too easy. If you don’t like it, you don’t like it.
Just play a game that you like. Games are 4 fun anywayz.