Selling dungeon runs?
How is it a scam?
It is legal. You can only report them for scamming if they sell you a run and don’t deliver. You can always start your own LFG post to find players that are interested in running the dungeon the way you wish to.
Hi everyone,
Just posting to inform you all that selling dungeon runs its NOT against the rules. People are free to do so. Please, exercise extreme caution to avoid getting scammed.
Thanks for your understanding
The Burninator
It’s completely legit and shouldn’t be reported unless you get scammed or you can see that the seller used exploits to do the run.
Best tip: join a guild that has a ton of people in it that run dungeons…then ping guild chat when you want to run.
Some people don’t want to bother doing the content themselves, or tire of it, and wish to just get the rewards. I myself spent several hundred gold buying paths in Arah because I hate that dungeon.
It’s a thing. We all like to have things. I used the thing. No regrets.
Kreejaffa [Ferguson’s Crossing]
Leader of Looking For Gandalf [LFG]
Worst Commander of Ferguson’s Crossing (Self Proclaimed)
Leader of Looking For Gandalf [LFG]
Worst Commander of Ferguson’s Crossing (Self Proclaimed)
I have nothing against selling a run, as long as what is promised is delivered. It is part of Guild Wars history to have runners that take you to new towns/outposts, or run you through a dungeon.
Selling a run is perfectly legal; don’t report it. Selling an exploited run is not; please report that. Pretending to sell a run and scamming people is also not legal; please report that.
If you’re looking for a group and don’t see one posted, try posting one yourself. Don’t be so lazy that you can only join groups other people have started.
Zui is right, you can post your own and fill very quickly. The ones you see are the ones that don’t fill in seconds.
Just be clear what you’re looking for. If I post for a dungeon path I will always include “not speed” in there so I don’t get the impatient shavers of microseconds.
How is it a scam?
- Selling something you don’t own is fraud. How did these sellers get into the position where they are selling the path anyway? Did the seller secure their position by being the instance owner, almost complete the instance with the help of party and then kick them out?
How is it a scam?
- Selling something you don’t own is fraud.How did these sellers get into the position where they are selling the path anyway? Did the seller secure their position by being the instance owner, almost complete the instance with the help of party and then kick them out?
Again in case you missed it
Hi everyone,
Just posting to inform you all that selling dungeon runs its NOT against the rules. People are free to do so. Please, exercise extreme caution to avoid getting scammed.
Thanks for your understanding
The Burninator
How is it a scam?
- Selling something you don’t own is fraud. How did these sellers get into the position where they are selling the path anyway? Did the seller secure their position by being the instance owner, almost complete the instance with the help of party and then kick them out?
Many paths can be done solo, or with small groups
I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<
How is it a scam?
- Selling something you don’t own is fraud. How did these sellers get into the position where they are selling the path anyway? Did the seller secure their position by being the instance owner, almost complete the instance with the help of party and then kick them out?
You sell the service of soloing the dungon up to the last boss, so the customer doesn’t have to run the instance himself (for tokens/dungeon master/experience).
Legit sellers will have soloed it instead of kicking the party, I have actually never experienced that myself.
(Doesn’t need to be solo, can be duo/trio etc. just to clarify)
Anet has confirmed they are okay with selling and as others have mentioned it can be beneficial for the community. Just dont buy the runs and learn the dungeon, it can be hard and painful but i found it rewarding to do it myself when i was first starting.
How is it a scam?
- Selling something you don’t own is fraud. How did these sellers get into the position where they are selling the path anyway? Did the seller secure their position by being the instance owner, almost complete the instance with the help of party and then kick them out?
The same reason I can assume you’re actually the person who bought the account Zenith.6403 and not some hacker who got on and is now impersonating you.
(logic, common sense, and probability, in case you weren’t sure)
Content in this game will always seem
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
How is it a scam?
- Selling something you don’t own is fraud. How did these sellers get into the position where they are selling the path anyway? Did the seller secure their position by being the instance owner, almost complete the instance with the help of party and then kick them out?
1. The many legit sellers got into that position by starting a solo run, and doing the path on their own (or, in the case of particular bosses, by enlisting help from friends or other players). They simply run the paths enough to know the mechanics of each encounter and, thus, learn to solo it all.
2. There isn’t an Instance Owner anymore. And more often than not, the path is not one that was stolen from another player/players.
A guild I’m in makes a fair amount of money selling runs. I can’t speak for anyone else doing it, but the folks I know take a rather particular pride in being quick, efficient and honest about it. Makes money for the guild coffers, funds the fun raffles and events we have going on in-guild every month and many people have gotten the things they wanted at reasonable, reliable prices.
They typically charge 3g a person, and some of them are quite pro at soloing certain paths. Duoing almost anything is their norm. Most of them are happy to explain the mechanics and boss fights to the clients and help them get confident in putting their own runs together.
There’s nothing fraudulent about it. They’re selling their service and their time in a way that leaves everyone happy. Happy players that got what they wanted is good for Anet, no?
One is only the smartest person in the room if they are alone.
15. BAN FOR DUNGEON SELLING[+] Arguments in favour:
- If ANet wanted people to sell dungeons, they would’ve made it a game mode.
- Dungeon sellers should be banned because asking money for playing the game is bad.
- Dungeon sellers are exploiting the game by soloing/duoing dungeons which were desinged for parties of 5 players.
- It is not fair that people solo dungeons and get more money for it than normal players.
- We cannot complete content because people are asking money for it.
- We cannot find a group because LFG is filled with path sellers.
- Dungeon sellers are scammers.
- We will join dungeon sellers in groups and kick them. We know we are right, and that way we’ll bring justice.
[-] Arguments against:
- Creating separate systems for every single aspect of player interaction is not cost-efficient. ANet has stated that dungeon selling is not against the rules:
Please understand that you are allowed to trade outside of the BLTP – but you will not receive replacements for lost items or gold. The same goes for selling dungeon runs. CS will not suspend or terminate you for selling runs.
- Dungeon sellers are providing you a service, and as any service, it has a price. This service is not fundamentally different from taxiing people through zones in other games. What dungeon sellers are actually doing is converting their time into gold, while if you buy a path, you’re saving your time by paying gold. It is a win-win deal where dungeon sellers can solo/duo a dungeon by using their skill and enjoy the game, and dungeon buyers get experience for low-level characters and tokens and save time to go and enjoy the game in a different place.
- There is no rule which says that you cannot solo content if you have enough skill, and as such, soloing cannot be considered an exploit. Dungeons are trivially easy for veteran players in organised groups, so for many, soloing is the only challenging content left in the game. If players do find an exploit in a dungeon and use it to solo content and sell paths, they can and should be reported. GMs are also logging into dungeons like Arah to check if the solo was legit, and real exploiters have been banned by ANet.
- If people have enough skill to solo a dungeon designed for 5 people, they deserve their reward. If you cannot, then you don’t and either complete in parties or buy paths. This is fair.
- Dungeon sellers are not blocking your progress. You can complete content since dungeon instances are completely independent from each other. Just go and post your own LFG with your own rules (including no rules at all).
- You’re drawing wrong conclusions from your observations. LFGs for casual runs fill in minutes, LFGs for popular runs fill in seconds – so obviously, you cannot see them because they’re already doing the dungeon, while dungeon sellers indeed have to wait for customers. Solution: post your own LFG.
- Any not officially supported player interaction has scam potential, it’s not limited to dungeon selling. If you have been scammed, you should report the person, and they will be suspended/banned, which will make the game a safer place for everyone.
- If you grieve legit dungeon sellers, you will be the one who is reported and suspended/banned. All players have the right to play the game how they want, but grieving others for their preferences will have consequences:
Basically, you steal, cheat, or be a general baddie and I’m coming with my Account-Focused Stun-Lock Cannon.
This is in regards to the recent increase in players joining a group in a pair; booting the legit players at a boss to troll or holding the party at ransom (Pay or we’ll kick). That’s a behavior we’re not cool with.
[=] Current state of affairs:
- Dungeon sellers are allowed to exist in the game. Actual scamming/exploiting/grieving from any side (seller/buyer) will result in suspension/ban. This policy has recently been enforced and will ensure that dungeon selling service is more secure for both sides.
20 level 80s and counting.
How is it a scam?
- Selling something you don’t own is fraud. How did these sellers get into the position where they are selling the path anyway? Did the seller secure their position by being the instance owner, almost complete the instance with the help of party and then kick them out?
I assume you have heard of selling services in the real world. And if you have something against path selling, well, don´t buy that service.
i love it when people complain about dungeon selling, do these same people complain about restaurants selling people cooked meals?.. oh how everyone should only cook for themselves or it will devalue the accomplisment of cooking food.
(edited by Lifestealer.4910)
I tried to search for party to do a dungeon path with, and in the LFG tool everything I saw was players selling a run. Now I didn’t buy this game to have someone else play it for me, but it got me thinking is this kind of thing legal according to EULA? Can I report the sellers for scamming players?
Just a day or two ago, an AC P1 group I was with was kicked by 2 guildies just before the boss. They then proceeded to list the instance in LFG and asked for 90s per person joining. I reported them of course. First, each individual for ‘scamming’ and then to support with a screenshot.
Speaking to someone who joined them (and later left that party and joined my re-run) I was informed the scammers claimed they duo’ed the dungeon.
Before this incident I always believed that it was not wrong to sell a legit dungeon run. However, I am starting to consider that its just not possible to distinguish between the legit and scam ones and if selling dungeon runs was made bannable, then the incentive to hijack dungeon runs would also be removed.
For now, I am just gonna write off that bad experience as a one off in AC and I hope A-net will take firm action against such instance-hijackers/scammers.
(edited by justkoh.4073)
i love it when people complain about dungeon selling, do these same people complain about restaurants selling people cooked meals?
- Of course not. This is a complaint why a “looking for group” section is not actually used by people looking for group, but those attempting to exploit the dungeon rewards system for their own benefit.
Buying a dungeon run is like buying a Where’s Waldo book where Waldo is marked with black circle on every page.
Make your own group.
It’s easy.
i love it when people complain about dungeon selling, do these same people complain about restaurants selling people cooked meals?
- Of course not. This is a complaint why a “looking for group” section is not actually used by people looking for group, but those attempting to exploit the dungeon rewards system for their own benefit.
What’s the exploit?
Buying a dungeon run is like buying a Where’s Waldo book where Waldo is marked with black circle on every page.
Buying a dungeon run is like paying a maid to clean my house. I could do it myself, but not as well or thoroughly and I’d rather just pay someone else to do it.
I know who I am, do you know who you are?
(edited by hybrid.5027)
i love it when people complain about dungeon selling, do these same people complain about restaurants selling people cooked meals?
- Of course not. This is a complaint why a “looking for group” section is not actually used by people looking for group, but those attempting to exploit the dungeon rewards system for their own benefit.
Buying a dungeon run is like buying a Where’s Waldo book where Waldo is marked with black circle on every page.
1. Create your own groups. You will be amazed at how quickly your problem with the LFG has been resolved. Normal groups fill within seconds which is why you see sellers most of the time. They have to wait a lot longer.
2. If people want to buy Where’s Waldo books with Waldo marked in black circles then they are free to do so. Someone needs to provide that service/version for them. People do want to buy dungeon paths for various reasons. Sellers are simply providing the service. Noone is forcing anyone to buy if they dont want to.
(edited by spoj.9672)
i love it when people complain about dungeon selling, do these same people complain about restaurants selling people cooked meals?
- Of course not. This is a complaint why a “looking for group” section is not actually used by people looking for group, but those attempting to exploit the dungeon rewards system for their own benefit.
Buying a dungeon run is like buying a Where’s Waldo book where Waldo is marked with black circle on every page.
And it doesn’t prevent you from buying the version without the black circle. Which is much much cheaper.
And a book isn’t a service which is what dungeon selling is. A service.
A book is a product. Analogy isn’t perfect.
Don’t like dungeon selling, then don’t buy runs. The legit sellers are skilled players and they deserve the extra reward for soloing the content meant to be done in a group of they so choose to sell the run.
In fairness “deserving” doesnt even come into it. They are providing a service using their own time to do so. They can charge whatever they want for that service. If you dont like the service or the price then dont buy.
What’s the exploit?
- That dungeon rewards are not given for completing the dungeon from start to finish, but when the last boss dies or last cutscene is played. Since rewards are scaled based on how difficult the dungeon path is, I believe the reward is intended for full completion.
What’s the exploit?
- That dungeon rewards are not given for completing the dungeon from start to finish, but when the last boss dies or last cutscene is played. Since rewards are scaled based on how difficult the dungeon path is, I believe the reward is intended for full completion.
Think about what you are suggesting for a minute.
What happens when a regular group has a player that needs to log off halfway through but they still need 5 players to complete the dungeon?
What’s the exploit?
- That dungeon rewards are not given for completing the dungeon from start to finish, but when the last boss dies or last cutscene is played. Since rewards are scaled based on how difficult the dungeon path is, I believe the reward is intended for full completion.
You are entitled to your definition of exploit, but people have already provided links to dev quotes that show arenanet does not consider it one. Now you can choose to remain annoyed by something you don’t want to happen but can not change, or ignore it because you realise it does not matter for your enjoyment of the game.
What’s the exploit?
- That dungeon rewards are not given for completing the dungeon from start to finish, but when the last boss dies or last cutscene is played. Since rewards are scaled based on how difficult the dungeon path is, I believe the reward is intended for full completion.
Other people in the thread have posted links that show the devs of this game do not consider dungeon selling or buying to be an exploit.
Based on his responses, I’m now convinced OP is just trolling.
Think about what you are suggesting for a minute.
- I haven’t suggested anything so far. Inserting reward trigger on last boss’ death is certainly a normal way to code a game. I don’t think the coders anticipated that party composition would rapidly change at this point in the instance and that selling services outside trading post would become a social phenomenon for dungeons. It’s using three systems (freely joinable parties in LFG tool, gold transfer with mailing and dungeon reward) to gain unintended advantage.
Think about what you are suggesting for a minute.
- I haven’t suggested anything so far. Inserting reward trigger on last boss’ death is certainly a normal way to code a game. I don’t think the coders anticipated that party composition would rapidly change at this point in the instance and that selling services outside trading post would become a social phenomenon for dungeons. It’s using three systems (freely joinable parties in LFG tool, gold transfer with mailing and dungeon reward) to gain unintended advantage.
Since this exact thing (dungeon selling) happened in GW1, what makes you so sure the developers didnt think it would happen here? You sound really informed about the topic you evidently care so much about.
I know who I am, do you know who you are?
Think about what you are suggesting for a minute.
- I haven’t suggested anything so far. Inserting reward trigger on last boss’ death is certainly a normal way to code a game. I don’t think the coders anticipated that party composition would rapidly change at this point in the instance and that selling services outside trading post would become a social phenomenon for dungeons. It’s using three systems (freely joinable parties in LFG tool, gold transfer with mailing and dungeon reward) to gain unintended advantage.
I took what you said as a suggestion that the end reward should only be given to players who who have been in the instance since the beginning. Because thats one of the only solutions to the problem you have with the current system.
Good troll OP. Unfortunately for you ANET has no dungeon team and it’s not obvious they are capable of simple bug/exploit fixes that have been in the game since launch.
It also seems that even though they compiled a list of bugs/suggested changes for dungeons months back, they have reneged and have no intention of ever acting on said suggestions.
So, even if your post had merit, which, let’s be clear, it doesn’t, you’re still out of luck.
I also hate people who do things I can’t.
Those kittens.
How is it a scam?
- Selling something you don’t own is fraud. How did these sellers get into the position where they are selling the path anyway? Did the seller secure their position by being the instance owner, almost complete the instance with the help of party and then kick them out?
He is selling a service. That is not fraud. My CPA doesn’t own my tax return, but I sure as heck will pay them to do it for me.
I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
Before this incident I always believed that it was not wrong to sell a legit dungeon run. However, I am starting to consider that its just not possible to distinguish between the legit and scam ones and if selling dungeon runs was made bannable, then the incentive to hijack dungeon runs would also be removed.
Continuing to report such people, who WILL eventually be banned if they keep it up, is the incentive to hijack runs.
As to the rest, there’s far easier solutions to fix the problem. It’s a bit easier than you expect.
Before this incident I always believed that it was not wrong to sell a legit dungeon run. However, I am starting to consider that its just not possible to distinguish between the legit and scam ones and if selling dungeon runs was made bannable, then the incentive to hijack dungeon runs would also be removed.
Continuing to report such people, who WILL eventually be banned if they keep it up
I heit those people even more.
i love it when people complain about dungeon selling, do these same people complain about restaurants selling people cooked meals?
- Of course not. This is a complaint why a “looking for group” section is not actually used by people looking for group, but those attempting to exploit the dungeon rewards system for their own benefit.
Buying a dungeon run is like buying a Where’s Waldo book where Waldo is marked with black circle on every page.
Its also just as optional as choosing to buy a book in which Waldo is circled…or not to.
Show us where the run sellers grabbed you and made you do things you didn’t want to do?
One is only the smartest person in the room if they are alone.
Just to clarify we’re talking about buying dungeon runs for gold not money, right? I think selling the service for money might be? But maybe not? But selling for gold is quite legit.
Just to clarify we’re talking about buying dungeon runs for gold not money, right? I think selling the service for money might be? But maybe not? But selling for gold is quite legit.
Yes. The dungeon run sellers that charge XX gold for runs are what we’re discussing.
Anyone trying to sell runs for realworld money should be reported just like any other goldselling variety of RMT shmoe.
One is only the smartest person in the room if they are alone.
Selling something you don’t own is fraud. How did these sellers get into the position where they are selling the path anyway? Did the seller secure their position by being the instance owner, almost complete the instance with the help of party and then kick them out?
Possibly, but why would you automatically jump to that conclusion? There are people in the game who can legitimately complete a fractal or dungeon with less than a full group.
Yes, it’s direct trade, which means that there’s potential for scams etc. It’s not against the rules, and if people do get kicked out of a run so that the run can then be sold, then it’s up to them to report it.
I do agree to a point with the idea that players being able to get dungeon completion credit without doing a whole dungeon is a problem to a point.
However, as has already been discussed, enforcing that players actually run dungeons in full in order to claim credit would create a worse problem, because it would almost invalidate the work done by people who complete dungeons partially and make it difficult for groups to replenish their numbers part-way through. It would lead to genuinely worse experiences in many cases.
A possible solution might be to have a system something like this in place:
- To claim path completion, you must obtain special tokens that prove completion of each of the significant intermediate objectives in that path.
- If a group completes an objective while understrength, 12 “evidence” tokens for that objective per missing player are generated, and evenly distributed between the players who were present.
- Proof of completion tokens are account bound. Evidence tokens are not.
- 12 evidence tokens for an objective plus an amount of karma/laurels/skillpoints can be converted into a proof of completion token for the same objective.