Guild Wars 2

What is with the spamming of “legendaries” for sale on the LFG the past couple of days? Come on folks, that’s no place for that.

That has been going on for a while. Just report them for LFG abuse.

Yeah, Anet have stated before that selling items in LFG isn’t allowed, report them.

I really wish there was more information available on stuff like this instead of having to search pages and pages on google.

I recently tried it to sell a pre, simply because I didn’t know it was against the rules (I thought only scamming was)…especially when you see a bunch of other people doing it.

Ended up someone was really abusive to me so in the end I figured it was better to just avoid it and put it on tp.

Maybe before report you should just whisper them letting them know that its not allowed?

How in the world would you think a looking for group tool was okay for selling items? Oh, because you saw others doing it. LOL The very nature of the LFG should have told you enough that you should not be using it as means for trading. It isn’t called Looking For Group and Trades. I will report them every time I see them without warning. It’s called using common sense and if people can’t do so, then they get reported.

People sell dungeon runs also, that is apparently fine. Just thought anet didn’t promote it because of scams, didn’t see anything about it being against the rules..

People that are selling dungeon runs are inviting people to their group to do so. Thus looking for a group of players willing to join and pay for the run. They are not using the LFG tool as a grey market.

Julian.3791:

People sell dungeon runs also, that is apparently fine. Just thought anet didn’t promote it because of scams, didn’t see anything about it being against the rules..

Yeah, dungeon runs and stuff like it are fine because it still involves grouping with people. Selling items is, just that, it has no business being in LFG.

You are still just selling something in-game over lfg.

When you sell/buy an item, you are looking for a group to talk about selling/buying item.

That is similar to selling a dungeon port to me.

Also, I still think there should be a clearer message on what is condoned. Especially with an influx of new players completely new to mmos. If they seen stuff like that etc. I would think they wouldn’t question if it was wrong to buy or sell on lfg.

Julian.3791:

You are still just selling something in-game over lfg.

When you sell/buy an item, you are looking for a group to talk about selling/buying item.

That is similar to selling a dungeon port to me.

Also, I still think there should be a clearer message on what is condoned. Especially with an influx of new players completely new to mmos. If they seen stuff like that etc. I would think they wouldn’t question if it was wrong to buy or sell on lfg.

That is not similar even slightly. Selling dungeon runs is just selling a group, so therefore it is still relevant to Looking For Group. Selling items is not relevant at all, as it is not called Looking For Item.

Julian.3791:

You are still just selling something in-game over lfg.

When you sell/buy an item, you are looking for a group to talk about selling/buying item.

That is similar to selling a dungeon port to me.

Also, I still think there should be a clearer message on what is condoned. Especially with an influx of new players completely new to mmos. If they seen stuff like that etc. I would think they wouldn’t question if it was wrong to buy or sell on lfg.

No. Give it up. You learned your lesson, don’t use the LFG tool to sell items. It is that simple. There doesn’t need to be a clearer message. It is common sense. The LFG tool is for finding a group of players to join you as a group in game play. It isn’t to sell items or discuss the sale of items. It really is just that simple.

We will just have to agree to disagree then.

I think if there was like tips in the loading screen:

Trading items over lfg is not allowed.

This would help a lot imo. Other ones such as scammer warnings and stuff would be good too.

Julian.3791:

You are still just selling something in-game over lfg.

When you sell/buy an item, you are looking for a group to talk about selling/buying item.

That is similar to selling a dungeon port to me.

Also, I still think there should be a clearer message on what is condoned. Especially with an influx of new players completely new to mmos. If they seen stuff like that etc. I would think they wouldn’t question if it was wrong to buy or sell on lfg.

There is a huge difference. The LFG tool was designed to find players to do content with, which is what players selling dungeon/achievement runs are doing: playing the game together with others.

You can’t justify using the LFG tool to “group” with someone just to sell them an item because you are not playing the game together doing dungeons, living story, or any other kind of content.

I can see the point in that it could just become spammed with sellers/buyers, other than that it doesn’t really affect or bother me how people want to group with other people whether to buy or run a dungeon or whatever.

I seen a funny lfg the other day. Some guy just posted LFG to talk to some1. Could that be considered abuse because it’s pretty much the same thing as lfg to talk about selling an item :P

Julian.3791:

I seen a funny lfg the other day. Some guy just posted LFG to talk to some1. Could that be considered abuse because it’s pretty much the same thing as lfg to talk about selling an item :P

It can be considered spam at the very least.

And for the record, selling dungeon runs in the appropriate place, ie selling an Arah run under the Arah tab, is fair enough, but trying to sell dungeon runs in the “open world content” tab is also LFG abuse and will be reported as such. Arah is not open world content.

Julian.3791:

I recently tried it to sell a pre, simply because I didn’t know it was against the rules (I thought only scamming was)…especially when you see a bunch of other people doing it.

Ended up someone was really abusive to me so in the end I figured it was better to just avoid it and put it on tp.

I think I might have actually seen this happen- not anything on LFG, but shouting in Rata Sum? That, or the exact same thing just happens a lot. Entirely possible.

Anyway, if that was you, I sympathize. I personally wouldn’t trust anyone I didn’t know well enough to buy a precursor outside of the TP, but the person who was yelling at you was way out of line.

stop watching what others do and play the game

Conaywea.5062:

stop watching what others do and play the game

By that logic hacking would be okay.

There’s a difference between looking for group and looking for buyer. If the LFG ever has a LFB tab put in, people can feel free to post trades there. Until then, it’s group content only to play the game.

Conaywea.5062:

stop watching what others do and play the game

How would you like us to do that, by not using the LFG tool completely? This is similar to those abusing the top demanded items category on the TP home screen. Which leads me to say, “Amen” to the quote below. Players need to start using the LFG better and place dungeon runs (selling is fine to me) under the proper dungeon tabs.

Ohoni.6057:

And for the record, selling dungeon runs in the appropriate place, ie selling an Arah run under the Arah tab, is fair enough, but trying to sell dungeon runs in the “open world content” tab is also LFG abuse and will be reported as such. Arah is not open world content.

DeWolfe.2174:

What is with the spamming of “legendaries” for sale on the LFG the past couple of days? Come on folks, that’s no place for that.

they can’t afford the listing fee,(or don’t want to pay it)
so they use lfg and mapchat…

it’s wrong and foolish…I hope each one of them gets scammed.
you want to sell to strangers? be legit and pay your taxes/

I have a question.

I know using the LFG as a “look for buyer” is unapproved and unsupported by ANet. Does this mean that it’s actually a reportable offense? I hesitate to report if it’s not actually reportable (tying up support with reports that are not their province).

Can someone show an actual post where a Dev/staff said that this is reportable?

Astral Projections.7320:

I have a question.

I know using the LFG as a “look for buyer” is unapproved and unsupported by ANet. Does this mean that it’s actually a reportable offense? I hesitate to report if it’s not actually reportable (tying up support with reports that are not their province).

Can someone show an actual post where a Dev/staff said that this is reportable?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/bltc/Selling-items-to-players-for-in-game-currency/first#post4464679

To me that reads it is a reportable offense.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Astral Projections.7320:

I have a question.

I know using the LFG as a “look for buyer” is unapproved and unsupported by ANet. Does this mean that it’s actually a reportable offense? I hesitate to report if it’s not actually reportable (tying up support with reports that are not their province).

Can someone show an actual post where a Dev/staff said that this is reportable?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/bltc/Selling-items-to-players-for-in-game-currency/first#post4464679

To me that reads it is a reportable offense.

Wanze.8410
“You can trade your legendary over mail but you are not allowed to use the LFG Tool to advertise your sale because its not the intended purpose of the LFG Tool.”
John Smith.4610:
“I agree with you. The LFG tool is not a grey market tool.”

It’s close and can be read as such. Wanze said that it’s not the intended use and John Smith said he agreed that it’s not a place for a gray market. However he didn’t say that it’s a reportable offense.

There’s a difference between something being used in an non intended way and being reportable. (Not trying to be difficult or argumentative here. I just want a clear statement that it’s reportable as I see a difference between the two).

Astral Projections.7320:

It’s close and can be read as such. Wanze said that it’s not the intended use and John Smith said he agreed that it’s not a place for a gray market.

Wanze said it was not the intended use after he said it was not allowed and John agreed.

Wanze.8410
“You can trade your legendary over mail but you are not allowed to use the LFG Tool to advertise your sale because its not the intended purpose of the LFG Tool.”

John Smith.4610:
“I agree with you. The LFG tool is not a grey market tool.”

When someone from ANet agrees that is not allowed I see that as a reportable offense. Anet, “You are not allowed to do X” If said person does X then it is a reportable offense. That seems pretty clear to me.

I know you are trying to play devil’s advocate AP, and this is all in good fun. I like you and always appreciate your posts.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Astral Projections.7320:

It’s close and can be read as such. Wanze said that it’s not the intended use and John Smith said he agreed that it’s not a place for a gray market.

Wanze said it was not the intended use after he said it was not allowed and John agreed.

Wanze.8410
“You can trade your legendary over mail but you are not allowed to use the LFG Tool to advertise your sale because its not the intended purpose of the LFG Tool.”

John Smith.4610:
The LFG tool is not a grey market tool.”

When someone from ANet agrees that is not allowed I see that as a reportable offense. Anet, “You are not allowed to do X” If said person does X then it is a reportable offense. That seems pretty clear to me.

If the person you want to convince that they can’t use the LFG to sell items reads it, they can also read it as

Wanze.8410
“You can trade your legendary over mail but you are not allowed to use the LFG Tool to advertise your sale because its not the intended purpose of the LFG Tool.”

John Smith.4610:
I agree with you. The LFG tool is not a grey market tool.

Where he agrees it’s not the intended use (because ANet does not support gray market trading) but he is not saying it’s a reportable offense. The difference is which part of Wanze’s statement is he agreeing with. All of it or just the part about the gray market (his specialty).

I know this is spitting hairs but if it’s actually a reportable offense and not simply an unintended use, I wish ANet would come right out and say, using the LFG as a platform to sell items is a reportable offense, as I don’t feel comfortable reporting people where it may not actually be a reportable offense.

Of course another red post would clear things up but I doubt we will see that. The only way to work with what we know at this point is to report people that are abusing the LFG to sell items. It is pretty obvious that the LFG tool was never made to trade items. If it is not a reportable offense then nothing will happen to them and there is no harm in reporting them. It isn’t like reporting them is an abuse of the report system since it seems to be a grey area to some. Report abuse only affects people that are spamming reports on people to grief or troll them. Honest reports out of concern for upholding the integrity of the game will not harm the person reporting.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Of course another red post would clear things up but I doubt we will see that. The only way to work with what we know at this point is to report people that are abusing the LFG to sell items. It is pretty obvious that the LFG tool was never made to trade items. If it is not a reportable offense then nothing will happen to them and there is no harm in reporting them. It isn’t like reporting them is an abuse of the report system since it seems to be a grey area to some. Report abuse only affects people that are spamming reports on people to grief or troll them. Honest reports out of concern for upholding the integrity of the game will not harm the person reporting.

That’s true. But it also affects the advice and information given on the forum. If someone is asking whether or not using LFG as a LFB is reportable, then I want to be both sure and accurate when I say that it’s a reportable offense and I want a post I can point to that says this, unambiguously.

If all ANet has said are statements that it’s unintended and has not clearly said it’s reportable, then I don’t feel we should be flatly saying that it is and I don’t personally feel comfortable tying up support’s time with possibly erroneous reports.

However those are my thoughts and feelings and obviously others can read the same posts from the Devs and see a clear statement that is reportable and not merely unintended.

Well, I’ll keep on reporting people that use LFG to try to sell items. I have no fear that I’ll be banned for doing so. Nor do I think it will take resources from support. It doesn’t confuse me one bit when I see someone using the LFG tool to sell, as I know that isn’t the purpose of the LFG tool. I see it as spam and someone trying to work around the system. When I open the LFG tool I expect to find people that are looking to group with me. I don’t expect to find people that are trying to sell things to me.

If you choose not to report sellers using the LFG tool that is up to you. However, I will report them every time I see them to promote the integrity of the LFG tool.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Well, I’ll keep on reporting people that use LFG to try to sell items. I have no fear that I’ll be banned for doing so. Nor do I think it will take resources from support. It doesn’t confuse me one bit when I see someone using the LFG tool to sell, as I know that isn’t the purpose of the LFG tool. I see it as spam and someone trying to work around the system. When I open the LFG tool I expect to find people that are looking to group with me. I don’t expect to find people that are trying to sell things to me.

If you choose not to report sellers using the LFG tool that is up to you. However, I will report them every time I see them to promote the integrity of the LFG tool.

If it’s not a reportable offense then it absolutely should be. Having sellers there not only clogs up the LFG but some players are going to think its a supported option and get scammed. (Currently on LFG, there is someone selling Spark and another one calling him out as a scammer).

I would never try to convince another person not to report as I could very easily be wrong about my reading of this. I’m mostly saying that I would like a definitive red post and that what they have said so far is ambiguous.

As far as being a reportable offence, and not even getting into how terrible an idea it is, there is a report option for LFG abuse. If posting something into the LFG tool that doesnt belong, such as personal hook ups (outside of roleplaying) or troll postings, than selling items can be reported as well.

Edit: while it may not strictly be prohibited, I personally feel that open advertisements about getting together in real life outside of the game to be widely inaproppriate. If you meet someone and want to meet in real life, keep it between yourselves.

At the end of the day, there’s two reasons why we don’t have a player-to-player trading system:

1. So we don’t have the chat flooded with WTB/WTS (Spamadan was hell)
2. To remove the risk of scamming

So why does it seem like a good idea to reopen the flood gates by clogging up the LFG tool for high risk trades? Just pay the trading post fee and be done with it.

Maybe you should introduce a trading system like every other MMO out there. It boggles my mind that this game doesn’t even have such a basic feature.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Selling items using the LFG Tool is a very bad idea. The tool was not intended for that purpose, and those who use it are not protected from scams, rip-offs, and general heartbreak.

Not to be picky, but this doesn’t answer if lfg-selling is prohibited by the almighty banhammer or if it only gets you the evil eye.

From Gaile’s comment, I read the following:

As it stands at the moment, selling on the LFG tool is not forbidden, but it is very frowned upon. (Probably the same stance ANet has on dungeon selling.) From a game design perspective, this is probably more urgent since if players start bypassing the TP to sell on grey markets, it will result in one of the game’s major gold sinks being neutered, as well as result in increased requests to Support to deal with scammers.

Thus, while this means that those currently selling their wares aren’t reportable, but action may need to be taken in the very near future if people start doing it more and more often, to the point where they start to clog up the LFG tool.

Zaxares.5419:

From Gaile’s comment, I read the following:

As it stands at the moment, selling on the LFG tool is not forbidden, but it is very frowned upon. (Probably the same stance ANet has on dungeon selling.) From a game design perspective, this is probably more urgent since if players start bypassing the TP to sell on grey markets, it will result in one of the game’s major gold sinks being neutered, as well as result in increased requests to Support to deal with scammers.

Thus, while this means that those currently selling their wares aren’t reportable, but action may need to be taken in the very near future if people start doing it more and more often, to the point where they start to clog up the LFG tool.

ANet doesn’t frown on dungeon run selling at all. As long as it isn’t an exploited run. They’ve said in other threads that it’s fine to do.

They do however not give money back if you get scammed. But if there is evidence that the seller scammed you, then the seller will be punished.

In other words, from what Gaile has said, selling on LFG is not a reportable offense and reporting is a waste of time, both for us and Support.

/sigh

Good to have that point cleared up.

/shrug

I just report every one of them as LFG Abuse. Unless I read otherwise from Gaile, or another Anet employee, I’m going to assume each sell listing falls under being eligible to be reported.

I’m reporting it anyways. And will unless anet comes out and say I should stop. I’ve wanted a clear answer on this, and still want it. They should not be doing it at all. It is clogging up lfg, and is abusing it’s purpose. Same thing for guild recruiting on there. both are using it for something besides what it was intended.

Seera.5916:

Zaxares.5419:

From Gaile’s comment, I read the following:

As it stands at the moment, selling on the LFG tool is not forbidden, but it is very frowned upon. (Probably the same stance ANet has on dungeon selling.) From a game design perspective, this is probably more urgent since if players start bypassing the TP to sell on grey markets, it will result in one of the game’s major gold sinks being neutered, as well as result in increased requests to Support to deal with scammers.

Thus, while this means that those currently selling their wares aren’t reportable, but action may need to be taken in the very near future if people start doing it more and more often, to the point where they start to clog up the LFG tool.

ANet doesn’t frown on dungeon run selling at all. As long as it isn’t an exploited run. They’ve said in other threads that it’s fine to do.

They do however not give money back if you get scammed. But if there is evidence that the seller scammed you, then the seller will be punished.

Actually, if you read between the lines, they very much do not approve of dungeon selling. It’s not illegal, but also not something they really support or condone. Their core stance (and one I agree with) is that to get the rewards, players should actually do the content. Paying someone to run you through the content is “not how the game was meant to be played”. ANet won’t punish players for doing it, but it’s also why, if you get scammed, you’re on your own.

Selling a high cost item on the TP costs a lot and is definitely not a “small price” to pay. Like a guild member could not actually afford the 50g (!) TP listing fee to sell a precursor he got from a lucky drop. Which isn’t to say you don’t run a risk of getting scammed, just that not everyone doing this is out to scam you.

As for why it’s happening now, with the announcement of new legendaries and the precursor scavenger hunt hoarders are probably just panicking and trying to get rid of their stuff before prices drop.

Gaile Gray.6029:

and I pay the fees, and darn it, it’s a small price to pay — literally — to avoid the ripoffs that happen when someone decides to take a risk to avoid the fees.

yeah but that’s the problem, people want to maximize their profits (even if it’s only a few gold) so badly that they’re willing to loose hundreds of gold.

Lifestealer.4910:

Maybe you should introduce a trading system like every other MMO out there. It boggles my mind that this game doesn’t even have such a basic feature.

But GW2 does have a trading system. Quite a good one, in fact. It’s not Anet’s fault that some players do not want to use it.

Shinzan.2908:

Selling a high cost item on the TP costs a lot and is definitely not a “small price” to pay. Like a guild member could not actually afford the 50g (!) TP listing fee to sell a precursor he got from a lucky drop.

I never sit on a lot of cash, so I would be in the same boat in the unlikely event I get a very expensive item.

Let’s take Dawn for example:
Lowest selling offer is 899 gold, highest bid is 790 gold. If I sell at highest bid, I get 671,5 gold, if I undercut the highest selling offer, I can potentially make 763,3 gold. Since I cannot come up with the 44,9 gold needed to make that listing, I try a different approach.

I put on LFG that I’m willing to sell Dawn for 850 gold. I find my buyer, he puts his bid on TP, I sell to the new highest bid, we’re both happy: I make an extra 51 gold, he saves 49 gold.

Risk of getting scammed? None at all. 127,5 gold was paid for this safe service. I wouldn’t call that “a small price”, but it’s still better than losing everything.

JustTrogdor.7892:

People that are selling dungeon runs are inviting people to their group to do so. Thus looking for a group of players willing to join and pay for the run. They are not using the LFG tool as a grey market.

ok, so i can make a COF 1 run and after we kill the Efigy, the party gets to bid for a precursor. How cool is that?

Anet being overzealous about trading and the TP is really shady. They could have implemented a mailing system that allowed for scamless transaction, but decided to cheat players out of their hard earned gold. that’s not cool at all.

LFG to help carry my huuuuge heavy twilight sword…price is negotiable… XD
#trollmode

But seriously..use the appropriate tool for the corresponding actions…or get burned

Well, it’s easy. Whenever I use the lfg tool to get a group for some pve action and see someone posting a “selling item xyz” (not selling dungeon path) in the category I’m looking for a group, I report it for abuse. It’s misplaced there. It does not belong there.
It’s not the intended use of the tool and will fill it up with useless entries if used widely, rendering the lfg tool useless on the long run. I will not want to browse through pages of spam in the future, so “kill it before it grows”.

If this report is acted upon I don’t know, but as long as I don’t see a “don’t report lfg abuse for item sellers, because it’s not abuse” from Arenanet in the forum, I will continue doing it.

It’s also not intended for guild ads, or for “how do I do this” questions. There’s a time and a place for everything. The lfg tool is to find teams and exactly that.

Aenesthesia.1697:

JustTrogdor.7892:

People that are selling dungeon runs are inviting people to their group to do so. Thus looking for a group of players willing to join and pay for the run. They are not using the LFG tool as a grey market.

ok, so i can make a COF 1 run and after we kill the Efigy, the party gets to bid for a precursor. How cool is that?

Anet being overzealous about trading and the TP is really shady. They could have implemented a mailing system that allowed for scamless transaction, but decided to cheat players out of their hard earned gold. that’s not cool at all.

You’re paying for a service for a group-based activity in regards to selling dungeon paths. That’s much different than paying for something that could be bought off the TP. I don’t see how someone can confuse what the LFG system is as craigslist.