Guild Wars 2

Currently, the DPS and utility offered by the #1 skills on different sets varies way more significantly than it should. I get that Anet doesn’t really like autoattacks, but that isn’t an excuse for them being horribly imbalanced with regard to one another because they represent the way the weapon is used at the most basic level and play a disproportionately large role in determining how well a weapon set performs in general.

Weapons with weak autoattacks are not only usually much harder to play well, but they are usually objectively inferior (especially in PvE) to weapons with strong autoattacks outside of certain highly specific roles simply because you usually can’t maintain good sustained DPS with skills that use cooldowns or initiative. I don’t know if that’s intended or not, but to me it seems like the single biggest profession/weapon balance problem in the game.

I think that the balance team needs to figure out exactly what DPS/utility value all #1 skills should possess then do a comprehensive review of every set in the game to make sure that none of them are either too strong (like Warrior Sword #1) or too weak (like Ele Earth or Water Staff #1) relative to others in the game. Only then will fine-tuning of other skills and traits really be worthwhile in a lot of game modes.

Elementalists are a pretty good example of this profession-wide. The idea that you’re expected to attunement-dance to keep accessing new long-cooldown attacks is an excuse for many of the #1 attacks to border on wasted finger-movement. Versatility isn’t a profession feature for them. It’s a mandatory activity to maintain any semblance of outgoing damage.

Outside of elementalist, I find most weapons that are worth using on most classes to feature the use of the #1 skill a vast majority of the time. A friend and I were discussing this yesterday, and I found myself thinking about shooters. In the ones I’ve played, I spend most of the time shooting, kind of like using a #1 skill in GW2.

Why is shooter play fun, and GW2 combat less so? In both, I spend most of my time just shooting (stabbing/smashing/etc.) with occasional weapon switch or other actions. The answer is that in a shooter, it requires some skill to aim, particularly if the shooter offers more damage for hitting small, vulnerable spots on targets. GW2 lacks this, except that attackers need to stay in range.

My friend put it this way, “In GW2 combat is mostly ‘Turn on skill #1, and strafe, and every once in a while switch weapons or use 2-10.’ Since using the #1 skill requires no thought or effort on my part, the game devolves my role down to strafing.”

IndigoSundown.5419:

Outside of elementalist, I find most weapons that are worth using on most classes to feature the use of the #1 skill a vast majority of the time. A friend and I were discussing this yesterday, and I found myself thinking about shooters. In the ones I’ve played, I spend most of the time shooting, kind of like using a #1 skill in GW2.

Why is shooter play fun, and GW2 combat less so? In both, I spend most of my time just shooting (stabbing/smashing/etc.) with occasional weapon switch or other actions. The answer is that in a shooter, it requires some skill to aim, particularly if the shooter offers more damage for hitting small, vulnerable spots on targets. GW2 lacks this, except that attackers need to stay in range.

My friend put it this way, “In GW2 combat is mostly ‘Turn on skill #1, and strafe, and every once in a while switch weapons or use 2-10.’ Since using the #1 skill requires no thought or effort on my part, the game devolves my role down to strafing.”

Yes, that is the difference between MMO genre and FPS genre.

I’m not sure if you are saying Ele has the worst auto attacks or the best.

I’m hoping its best though, because they really are pretty awesome. I do wish other classes had awesome #1’s too though.

LoreChief.8391:

I’m not sure if you are saying Ele has the worst auto attacks or the best.

I’m hoping its best though, because they really are pretty awesome. I do wish other classes had awesome #1’s too though.

What class has the same skill 1 as other classes? There is no skill that is just a single target dmg ability with nothing more then a swing of a wepon. All the 1 skills are very class related.

There’s a school of thought that I’m gradually warming too, though I admit isn’t perfect. There’s the idea that the #1 skill should be your damage skill and the others should be skills that you use when appropriate. If the appropriate time is “as soon as it cools down” then there’s a design problem.

I’m half onboard with that. I admit that there is utility in a well-timed burst, though there are weapons that do not fit even this idea. Ranger greatsword comes to mind. #2, Maul, is the weapon’s main source of damage. You’re actually better off setting #2 as your auto-attack and timing your #1 presses to better utilize the evade on the third strike in the chain.

Thief’s Pistol/Pistol #3, Unload, also creates this dilemma. Unload is the main source of damage. With no condition-on-crit traits that deal damage available to the thief, it is purely a power-based attack. Yet, the #1 is bleed-heavy and slaps like a wet noodle. Your damage is all #3. You’re not going to click #2, #4 or #5 because #1 can’t carry your damage through the down time while your initiative regenerates.

I didn’t say anything otherwise, other than all the #1 auto attacks for Ele are cool.. But since you’re asking;

• Guardian & Warrior Greatsword attacks are pretty much identical.
• Engineer & Thief Pistol attacks are the same.
• Necro & Thief Dagger attacks are the same
• Warrior and Engineer Rifle attacks are almost the same, and are pretty much the exact same with traits.
• Thief, Warrior, Guardian and Mesmer Sword attacks are all the same

I think the point presented by the OP is that skills 4-5 are all pretty cool and unique, whereas #1 is always pretty generic. “These are all skills where I do something cool. This skill is the one I see my character do 90% of the time and they pretty much just take the weapon and swing it around. Oh, they also have a nifty little secondary effect sometimes like a stack of vuln or a bleed.”

Clockwork Bard.3105:

Thief’s Pistol/Pistol #3, Unload, also creates this dilemma. Unload is the main source of damage. With no condition-on-crit traits that deal damage available to the thief, it is purely a power-based attack. Yet, the #1 is bleed-heavy and slaps like a wet noodle. Your damage is all #3. You’re not going to click #2, #4 or #5 because #1 can’t carry your damage through the down time while your initiative regenerates.

Yes, I’ve crusaded about precisely this problem since launch on the Thief boards and how it’s the major reason P/P feels so gimpy and horrible. Vital Shot needs a substantial buff so that it can carry the set’s DPS well enough to allow you to be more flexible with your Initiative.

LoreChief.8391:

I didn’t say anything otherwise, other than all the #1 auto attacks for Ele are cool.. But since you’re asking;

• Guardian & Warrior Greatsword attacks are pretty much identical.
• Engineer & Thief Pistol attacks are the same.
• Necro & Thief Dagger attacks are the same
• Warrior and Engineer Rifle attacks are almost the same, and are pretty much the exact same with traits.
• Thief, Warrior, Guardian and Mesmer Sword attacks are all the same

I think the point presented by the OP is that skills 4-5 are all pretty cool and unique, whereas #1 is always pretty generic. “These are all skills where I do something cool. This skill is the one I see my character do 90% of the time and they pretty much just take the weapon and swing it around. Oh, they also have a nifty little secondary effect sometimes like a stack of vuln or a bleed.”

Well lets look at the compassion that you make for 1 skills.

War vs Guardian GS
War
½ Slash your foe. ½ Slice your foe.
½ Hit your foe with a final brutal strike.
Guardian
½ Strike your foe. ½ Strike your foe again.
½ Attack with a final, powerful strike that applies might for each foe you strike.
The War being more of a pure dmg dealer will hit harder with there 3 hits combo where Guardian being more of a magic class will buff them self. These attks are not the same.
Engineer vs Thf
Pistol
Engineer
½ Fire a shot that bleeds the impacted target and then explodes, dealing damage to nearby enemies.
Thf
½ Bleed your foe with a shot to the vitals.
1 Sneak attack with rapid fire from your pistol and make your foe bleed.
The Eng is more about doing aoe dmg and bleeds with there attk a very strate forwarded type of attk where the Thf is more about single target dmg with the added effect of having more tricks coming out of stealth. These attks are not the same due to how these classes play.

Any way i do not want to do them all you can look them up your self but the thing is just by the way the class plays changes up how the 1 skill works that makes the 1 skill important to the class type ontop of that the 3 hit combo being part of the 1 skill is a major part of the type of class your playing all of this makes the 1 skill a very unique skill for each class you play as.

Eng pistol has the worst aa in the game. That’s a big reason why so many take IP to make up for that. So ofc they are nerfing IP for build diversity since so many are taking it >.<

JMar.3254:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Outside of elementalist, I find most weapons that are worth using on most classes to feature the use of the #1 skill a vast majority of the time. A friend and I were discussing this yesterday, and I found myself thinking about shooters. In the ones I’ve played, I spend most of the time shooting, kind of like using a #1 skill in GW2.

Why is shooter play fun, and GW2 combat less so? In both, I spend most of my time just shooting (stabbing/smashing/etc.) with occasional weapon switch or other actions. The answer is that in a shooter, it requires some skill to aim, particularly if the shooter offers more damage for hitting small, vulnerable spots on targets. GW2 lacks this, except that attackers need to stay in range.

My friend put it this way, “In GW2 combat is mostly ‘Turn on skill #1, and strafe, and every once in a while switch weapons or use 2-10.’ Since using the #1 skill requires no thought or effort on my part, the game devolves my role down to strafing.”

Yes, that is the difference between MMO genre and FPS genre.

Thing is, in most MMO’s, players use a rotation to get the best damage. Autoattacks are generally a negligible part of damage. Some (many?) GW2 weapons don’t offer a rotation, and thus using them is more like shooter play than standard MMO play.

Elementalist AAs aren’t lacking for interesting (except for water scepter; that’s just lame). What they lack, in most cases, is oomph.

The staff generally gets a pass because its #1s are all functionally useful and the weapon as a whole is never taken for its raw single-target damage potential. It would’ve been nice if one of the attunements was focus-fire oriented, but that’s a topic all its own.

When it comes to dagger and scepter, there are problems. Both earth attacks and fire scepter have damaging condition riders, which are almost universally bad. The necessity of dancing into attunements without damaging conditions makes gearing for them pretty much pointless. Dagger fire does hurt, but sometimes requires you to straddle your target’s leg to do so. It’s an odd design choice for the “area damage” attunement and probably should have at least had piercing shots. Water barely tickles, though at least it has a purpose on the dagger by offering a semi-ranged option.

That mainly leaves it a one man show starring Air if you want sustained damage from your #1, which is probably why Fresh Air is such a popular trait. It’s why I find my elementalist so uncomfortable to play. It feels like I need to swap to the appropriate attunement for the situation, blow the cooldowns, then get back to air as fast as I can.