Guild Wars 2

Update

We already knew that GW2 could not fulfill the expectations in China in regard to player numbers. KongZhong performed now several server merges in one of the three districts. In last consequence they removed one entire district with nine Servers. Now there are 24 servers left. This will help the WvW over there, that is more unbalanced than EU/NA.

http://gw2.kongzhong.com/announce/20141217/2179.html

kitten already? Not enough grind even for the chinese?

People complain about server mergers and/or megaservers like its a bad thing. Either they add too few servers at launch and there are insane queues or they add a ton of servers and 6 months later every server is dead except two. The best solution is obviously to have sufficient servers at launch with a planned consolidation later when concurrent userbase diminishes.

Why are people in China leaving the game? What is it they complain about? Do we have any information about this? It is the same things we complain about, or do they have different issues?

hybrid.5027:

People complain about server mergers and/or megaservers like its a bad thing. Either they add too few servers at launch and there are insane queues or they add a ton of servers and 6 months later every server is dead except two. The best solution is obviously to have sufficient servers at launch with a planned consolidation later when concurrent userbase diminishes.

I think you are absolutely right and I am glad they didn’t drag their feet with consolidating. I think many people would welcome a server consolidation of the NA and EU servers.

Silmar Alech.4305:

Why are people in China leaving the game? What is it they complain about? Do we have any information about this? It is the same things we complain about, or do they have different issues?

Just imagine our issues ten times worse and twenty times more expensive, that would sum up the chinese versions problems.

Schwarzseher.9873:

Silmar Alech.4305:

Why are people in China leaving the game? What is it they complain about? Do we have any information about this? It is the same things we complain about, or do they have different issues?

Just imagine our issues ten times worse and twenty times more expensive, that would sum up the chinese versions problems.

Nomen est omen!

I think GW2 doesn’t follow the typical gear grind forumal and asian love that! WoW is a huge success in China for example.

Do they mention how many servers they had and now after the merge? I just wonder. I read in some older news that it was worse than expected from NCSoft.

hybrid.5027:

People complain about server mergers and/or megaservers like its a bad thing. Either they add too few servers at launch and there are insane queues or they add a ton of servers and 6 months later every server is dead except two. The best solution is obviously to have sufficient servers at launch with a planned consolidation later when concurrent userbase diminishes.

That is assuming a diminishing userbase is something normal and expected. It’s not. Not that fast at least. I mean GW2 has been out in China for how long now? 6 months or something?

The fact that GW2 survived the first 3 months in China is a good sign. It means GW2 isn’t a dying MMO like Wildstar Online is. But having to merge servers at the 6 months mark is not a good sign. That means GW2 preformed more poorly in China than Anet/NCSoft expected it to preform.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

That is assuming a diminishing userbase is something normal and expected.

Every single game ever released have a diminishing user base from the moment it is released.

GW2 doesn’t have “servers” like most other MMOs, so merging doesn’t exactly mean what it would mean in another MMO. GW2 has always basically had a single server, which all characters are stored on. The world you choose in GW2 is basically just a search filter, grouping you with others who have chosen the same, yet you were never restricted to that world like you would be in other MMOs.

The only reason to merge servers is for WvW, which, last time I saw a score in China, it was incredibly lopsided. I’m guessing it’s simply not popular, hence the merger.

In the future, I wouldn’t be surprised if ArenaNet got rid of worlds altogether and went with a system that allowed you to represent something within the game for WvW.

lordkrall.7241:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

That is assuming a diminishing userbase is something normal and expected.

Every single game ever released have a diminishing user base from the moment it is released.

I’ve never experienced server merges being spun as a sign a game is healthy. Ever.

They don’t have the population they expected if they’re merging servers after six months.

lordkrall.7241:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

That is assuming a diminishing userbase is something normal and expected.

Every single game ever released have a diminishing user base from the moment it is released.

Orly?

Pretty sure LoL has way more players now then when it first came out, just to make another example

Edit: oh, and EVE online.

Oh and Skyrim too now that I checked steamcharts.com (did that to prevent people from going the B2P vs Subscription route).

LucosTheDutch.4819:

lordkrall.7241:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

That is assuming a diminishing userbase is something normal and expected.

Every single game ever released have a diminishing user base from the moment it is released.

Orly?

I would say its more like “every hyped MMO” .. and hyping new MMOs started
more or less after the success of WoW.

Else … Server merges say nothing in a game where servernames in the end doesn’t
mean more than just grouping players for WvW.

Beldin.5498:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

lordkrall.7241:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

That is assuming a diminishing userbase is something normal and expected.

Every single game ever released have a diminishing user base from the moment it is released.

Orly?

I would say its more like “every hyped MMO” .. and hyping new MMOs started
more or less after the success of WoW.

Else … Server merges say nothing in a game where servernames in the end doesn’t
mean more than just grouping players for WvW.

WoW itself got hyped plenty before it got released.

Every MMO has its peak and after reaching that peak the userbase will start to dwindle until it settles at a certain level, IF it settles at a certain level. It is therefor to be expected that at one point servers need to be merged. However that usually happens after 1 or more years after release. Merging servers after 6 months is not a good sign.

Now I wouldn’t say that GW2 in China is dying, a dying MMO usually losers players a lot faster (around the 3 month mark) but GW2 is not doing really well in China either. I think Anet/NCSoft will have to settle with a small niche position in China. That’s the most GW2 in China will be.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Beldin.5498:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

lordkrall.7241:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

That is assuming a diminishing userbase is something normal and expected.

Every single game ever released have a diminishing user base from the moment it is released.

Orly?

I would say its more like “every hyped MMO” .. and hyping new MMOs started
more or less after the success of WoW.

Else … Server merges say nothing in a game where servernames in the end doesn’t
mean more than just grouping players for WvW.

WoW itself got hyped plenty before it got released.

Every MMO has its peak and after reaching that peak the userbase will start to dwindle until it settles at a certain level, IF it settles at a certain level. It is therefor to be expected that at one point servers need to be merged. However that usually happens after 1 or more years after release. Merging servers after 6 months is not a good sign.

Now I wouldn’t say that GW2 in China is dying, a dying MMO usually losers players a lot faster (around the 3 month mark) but GW2 is not doing really well in China either. I think Anet/NCSoft will have to settle with a small niche position in China. That’s the most GW2 in China will be.

Without knowing numbers in China, it still can just mean that the chinese players
simply don’t like WvW.
Without WvW we could merge ALL servers into one in the end because Megaserver
is in the end one single server for all, no matter how many players we have.

Beldin.5498:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Beldin.5498:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

lordkrall.7241:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

That is assuming a diminishing userbase is something normal and expected.

Every single game ever released have a diminishing user base from the moment it is released.

Orly?

I would say its more like “every hyped MMO” .. and hyping new MMOs started
more or less after the success of WoW.

Else … Server merges say nothing in a game where servernames in the end doesn’t
mean more than just grouping players for WvW.

WoW itself got hyped plenty before it got released.

Every MMO has its peak and after reaching that peak the userbase will start to dwindle until it settles at a certain level, IF it settles at a certain level. It is therefor to be expected that at one point servers need to be merged. However that usually happens after 1 or more years after release. Merging servers after 6 months is not a good sign.

Now I wouldn’t say that GW2 in China is dying, a dying MMO usually losers players a lot faster (around the 3 month mark) but GW2 is not doing really well in China either. I think Anet/NCSoft will have to settle with a small niche position in China. That’s the most GW2 in China will be.

Without knowing numbers in China, it still can just mean that the chinese players
simply don’t like WvW.
Without WvW we could merge ALL servers into one in the end because Megaserver
is in the end one single server for all, no matter how many players we have.

It’s not that simple. 1 mega server wouldn’t work for multiple reasons, unless the player base is super small, then it might perhaps work. Anet would never merge ALL servers into one not even in the worst-case scenario.

WoW is subscription based so people are less inclined to stop playing so suddenly. LoL was very small at the start and its completely f2p so its a bit different. Plus its not an MMO. MMO’s these days tend to have huge numbers right after release and then a large portion drop off after a couple of weeks/months. It happened in GW2 when people got to 80 and didnt know what to do. And it happened on a huge scale for Archeage recently.

Archeage actually made a big mistake with their release. There was not enough servers so they had to open up several later on (It was packed full on early access, actual release was a joke). And they took too long to do so. When they finally added some servers many players had already given up due to 3 hour queues or being left behind. Its better too have more than enough on release than to have too little.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Beldin.5498:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Beldin.5498:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

lordkrall.7241:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

That is assuming a diminishing userbase is something normal and expected.

Every single game ever released have a diminishing user base from the moment it is released.

Orly?

I would say its more like “every hyped MMO” .. and hyping new MMOs started
more or less after the success of WoW.

Else … Server merges say nothing in a game where servernames in the end doesn’t
mean more than just grouping players for WvW.

WoW itself got hyped plenty before it got released.

Every MMO has its peak and after reaching that peak the userbase will start to dwindle until it settles at a certain level, IF it settles at a certain level. It is therefor to be expected that at one point servers need to be merged. However that usually happens after 1 or more years after release. Merging servers after 6 months is not a good sign.

Now I wouldn’t say that GW2 in China is dying, a dying MMO usually losers players a lot faster (around the 3 month mark) but GW2 is not doing really well in China either. I think Anet/NCSoft will have to settle with a small niche position in China. That’s the most GW2 in China will be.

Without knowing numbers in China, it still can just mean that the chinese players
simply don’t like WvW.
Without WvW we could merge ALL servers into one in the end because Megaserver
is in the end one single server for all, no matter how many players we have.

It’s not that simple. 1 mega server wouldn’t work for multiple reasons, unless the player base is super small, then it might perhaps work. Anet would never merge ALL servers into one not even in the worst-case scenario.

But it works already. Ok 2 Servers … one for US and one for EU ..

LucosTheDutch.4819:

lordkrall.7241:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

That is assuming a diminishing userbase is something normal and expected.

Every single game ever released have a diminishing user base from the moment it is released.

Orly?

We all know that WoW is on a league on its’ own and honestly speaking, not only because of the circumstances it had but also because it was the better game back in time.

Otherwise, it is really normal with today’s MMOs to see the population sink. No, server signs is never a good sign, but I have also never heared of a big MMO title that increased its’ active-playersbase since what… perhaps 7-8 years.

Beldin.5498:

But it works already. Ok 2 Servers … one for US and one for EU ..

That’s not how it works… they still have a lot of servers. They just dynamically create and destroy map instances as players come and go, and don’t restrict players to any particular server.

If the game is already merging servers in china, obviously the game format is showing major trouble on keeping players interested in GW2. In a corporate point of view, the numbers is the end game! I fear, no matter what Anet do, unless major changes to the game format from what it is to something similar to WoW, the game will never reach out to a newer player base. Even if the game is sold for free & has new content! For the last 3 years they put there theories into practice, some works… but in the end, the answer is right here right now. Players are leaving & are leaving for good. I only got one thing to say….Anet.. do something intelligent!!!

I think a little perspective matters. GW2 is a niche game in china, fine.

Do you know how big even a small niche in china is?

It’s merging to fix WvW issues, no? Doesn’t mean there’s a game-wide population issue.

butch.8136:

It’s merging to fix WvW issues, no? Doesn’t mean there’s a game-wide population issue.

It does mean something…figure it out..wink wink!

unless im completely blind, there’s nothing in that announcement that says anything about wvw.

FFXIV: AAR came out on a similar time is sub based and had rising numbers. But well, it’s hard to compare anyway.

Vieux P.1238:

Players are leaving & are leaving for good.

Yes, it’s a shame they can’t ever come back, or their entire family will be killed.

I would welcome some server merges finally for EU/NA.

After two years, you ablutely feel that the player density is everywhere alot lower, than naturally at the release of the game.
Events, that are untouched for an half eternity.

I also think it wouldnt be wrong to merge EU Servers with NA Servers, cause this would at least solve for WvW the coverage problems, because when one side is sleeping, is the other side awakened and replaces the sleeping side

I thinkl the concept of language based servers is outdated. Every server needs to be international and we simply need to get back only the district sysstem back
outside of towns can people always make new map zones, into which people can then taxi people, which speak only the same language, so that creating a language flagged LFG could be seen only by players, that have set their game to the same language.

However, Anet does it in the future, I strongly belief, this is an issua, from which anet can’t run away permanently. The time will come, where they absolutely need to do something about the servers for EU/NA too with merges.

Andred.1087:

Vieux P.1238:

Players are leaving & are leaving for good.

Yes, it’s a shame they can’t ever come back, or their entire family will be killed.

Be realistic here. Most of them won’t. The guild I started playing GW2 with have all left. None of them have returned to the game. It would take a major overhaul or a lot of new content released to get them to come back. And this was a guild focused on WvW, an aspect of the game that has received zero attention since release.

Amroth.2170:

Andred.1087:

Vieux P.1238:

Players are leaving & are leaving for good.

Yes, it’s a shame they can’t ever come back, or their entire family will be killed.

Be realistic here. Most of them won’t. The guild I started playing GW2 with have all left. None of them have returned to the game. It would take a major overhaul or a lot of new content released to get them to come back. And this was a guild focused on WvW, an aspect of the game that has received zero attention since release.

Amroth.2170: It’s not the only guild that has left Gw2. I was part of 2 majore guilds that has left has left the game for good for something else. Ps: Andred.1087, Say goodby to ur family….Dho! …..

Consolidation to a megaserver is likely due to the fact that implementation of content there and here will be much simpler to do with the systems being the same. It also leads one to speculate if it is being done to accommodate something for both sides of the pond at the same time, like say and expansion.

Here’s an article outlining the GW2 release in China: http://seekingalpha.com/article/2734155-kongzhong-after-a-rough-q3-whats-next

Monthly users and revenue are down QoQ in that market: http://seekingalpha.com/article/2713005-kongzhong-q3-fy2014-results

ANet has acknowledged this already.

Let’s call a spade a spade people. The release in China didn’t go as well as planned. Depopulated servers are not indicative of a healthy game.

Vieux P.1238:

If the game is already merging servers in china, obviously the game format is showing major trouble on keeping players interested in GW2. In a corporate point of view, the numbers is the end game! I fear, no matter what Anet do, unless major changes to the game format from what it is to something similar to WoW, the game will never reach out to a newer player base. Even if the game is sold for free & has new content! For the last 3 years they put there theories into practice, some works… but in the end, the answer is right here right now. Players are leaving & are leaving for good. I only got one thing to say….Anet.. do something intelligent!!!

The chinese playerbase and the western playerbase has totally other needs. I highly doubt the chinese players have the same issues as us.

Also, please stop the talking about major guilds leaving.
It is so childish and shows such an ignorance towards the nature of MMOs that I don’t even wanna comment about it anylonger.

hybrid.5027:

People complain about server mergers and/or megaservers like its a bad thing. Either they add too few servers at launch and there are insane queues or they add a ton of servers and 6 months later every server is dead except two. The best solution is obviously to have sufficient servers at launch with a planned consolidation later when concurrent userbase diminishes.

Don’t be blind! Merging servers means only ONE thing, people leave the game.. Not interested in it, there for Anet is forced to merge servers to get decent amount of people in one map…

Sad to see, i hope now they will start working harder on the game…
Comparing to GW1 they are slacking A LOT!

Doesn´t look like the NPE did was it was supposed to do . . .

To be fair, as far as I know, the Chinese version has a lot more aggressive gemshop and Kongzhong received a lot of bad feedback for that and on other issues from their side.

I found a site where I could see how servers are assigned to districts.
http://www.gw2sns.com/wvw/list
The 2nd telecom districts does not exist any longer. The players will be transferred to servers of the 1st telecom district. Nine server were dissolved and 24 are left now.

Well the only positive side to this is that maybe with China not doing well they’ll concentrate on getting us a lot more meaningful content and before 2016! I’ll bet they start talking to us again pretty soon in the new year. It’ll be interesting to see how they try to win many back after treating us like pariahs for almost a year.

Andred.1087:

Beldin.5498:

But it works already. Ok 2 Servers … one for US and one for EU ..

That’s not how it works… they still have a lot of servers. They just dynamically create and destroy map instances as players come and go, and don’t restrict players to any particular server.

But that is exactly how a megaserver works. Of course you can’t do that without dynamic creation of zone. Having just one of each zone is the old dedicated server model.

Without WvW we could simply remove all servernames and call the servers Megaserver US and EU .. because for PvE it simply doesnt matter at all on what server you create your characters.

Also it doesn’t matter if we have 1000 or 10.000.000 players .. beside that for bigger
numbers the hardware has to been upgraded.

Given the timing since the Chinese release of the game it looks like those that came on board hit level 80 and then found the lack of vertical progression was not their cup of tea. China is a fast growing, evolving society more concerned on bettering themselves and moving upwards in society versus wearing fancy clothes but staying at the same level. Does this translate into the type of game they prefer to play? Would the addition of vertical progression to the Chinese game bring some of those players back?

It is going to be interesting to follow.

Belenwyn.8674:

Update

We already knew that GW2 could not fulfill the expectations in China in regard to player numbers. KongZhong performed now several server merges in one of the three districts. In last consequence they removed one entire district with nine Servers. Now there are 24 servers left. This will help the WvW over there, that is more unbalanced than EU/NA.

http://gw2.kongzhong.com/announce/20141217/2179.html

And it hasn’t even been a year. It took a year and a half for a server merge on this side, but on their side one was required in less than a year. That is very concerning.

I just don’t think the game is grindy enough for it to really take off in China. Especially when it comes to power progression. I could be wrong, but it seems like that’s the type of game that works out well there.

3 million copies sold at release in China, we don’t know the number since then or how many are still active…and this is out of a population over 1 billion, of course I’m sure their gaming population is only around 100 million or so, give or take a few million.

So, let’s ask the real question: If grind sells over there, and not over here, then which way will ANet go?

We’ve already seen our version of the game get hosed over for the China version, so it doesn’t look good for us.

Palador.2170:

So, let’s ask the real question: If grind sells over there, and not over here, then which way will ANet go?

We’ve already seen our version of the game get hosed over for the China version, so it doesn’t look good for us.

Well considering they have a new Lineage coming out my bet is they’ll hedge their bet on that for China and push Anet to win back NA/EU. Of course that’s a logical course of action and I’m not certain that’s been the path this last year. You know honestly the most amazing thing in all of this, GW2 had the most successful launch in gaming history and this will be the legacy they’re going to be left with if they don’t a miracle out of that studio in the next few months. Who would have thought we’d be here in August 2012, it would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad.

Palador.2170:

So, let’s ask the real question: If grind sells over there, and not over here, then which way will ANet go?

Where are you getting your facts at? It has bin proven that grind sales as well over here if not only there. WoW is not the only game to have proven that.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Palador.2170:

So, let’s ask the real question: If grind sells over there, and not over here, then which way will ANet go?

We’ve already seen our version of the game get hosed over for the China version, so it doesn’t look good for us.

Well considering they have a new Lineage coming out my bet is they’ll hedge their bet on that for China and push Anet to win back NA/EU. Of course that’s a logical course of action and I’m not certain that’s been the path this last year. You know honestly the most amazing thing in all of this, GW2 had the most successful launch in gaming history and this will be the legacy they’re going to be left with if they don’t a miracle out of that studio in the next few months. Who would have thought we’d be here in August 2012, it would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad.

Since when Anet acts logical? I bet they are soo greedy they simply move more reesources on the chinese market to revive that dead body even tough it was born dead. If I knew that things would develop like this in august 2012 I would have spend that money in CoD instead of this game.

kitten China. Guild Wars is an Western game series. If they want grind they can go play the billions of Korean and Asian MMOs out there that are nothing but grind.

Zaklex.6308:

3 million copies sold at release in China, we don’t know the number since then or how many are still active…and this is out of a population over 1 billion, of course I’m sure their gaming population is only around 100 million or so, give or take a few million.

Way less than 100 million.