Guild Wars 2

This is not a critique, post. I’m intending this as a question. “Is Guild Wars 2 beginning to feel like it is in a severe decline?”

Here’s my reasoning behind the question:

Guild Wars 2 is a follow up of Guild Wars 1. It is also a product line. If I go to the store and buy a microwave, then discover that I like this particular brand very well I’m inclined to buy it again in the future. Guild wars 1 was much like this. Each expansion was its own stand alone game. Each expansion used the same overall mechanics, but the size of the expansions were very large, very good, very unique, and very much the same size.

Guild Wars 2 by comparison has no expansions, nothing really going on, and feels like it is on a huge strangling budgetary constraint that is driving the game into an early grave.

We’re getting new maps now, but we’re not actually seeing any improvement to the game as a whole. Yes, the game is maintained, but that’s not to say improved or expanded upon. Guild Wars 1 was released in 2005, Factions 2006, Nightfall 2006, and Eye of the North 2007. By comparison Guild Wars 2 has released…

…
…
…

So there’s a bit of a discrepancy here. Each expansion of Guild Wars 1 produced distinct new lands and new armors entirely unique to that expansion. With those came new character models, new classes, and new skills. By comparison, Guild Wars 2 has produced…

…
…
… new healing skills…
… a few token armor models: most you have to purchase via gem store

If fans are upset, it should be entirely obvious why. Everything used up until Scarlet Briar came to town was recycled content. The exception to this was the Mad King’s Clock Tower and Super Adventure Box. 2012, and 2013 content for the Mad King’s Clock Tower were unique, but 2014 was a copy and paste of 2014. Super Adventure box was released in 2013, April and again in September of the same year. Since then and despite player demand it has not returned. This is somewhat more important as Guild Wars 2 released Gem Store items that were only relevant to playing in the Super Adventure Box. Effectively, removing the thing from future content is like scamming your players. “Buy this item so you can play more in this content!” …“We removed the content, ha-ha!”

So, now we’re seeing new maps. Dry Top and Silverwastes, Glint’s Lair… But, they are half the size of normal maps and really aren’t going anywhere fast. That is, we’re still not seeing the same level of development or content creation as Guild Wars 1.

Finally, the sense of character and class uniqueness has completely left Guild Wars 2. There’s no Monk, Ritualist, or other sort of healer type class. That appears to have been a mistake now. While I appreciate the rezzing from others and certainly go out of my way to help others (quite literally as soon as the little downed arrow appears on mini-map) I don’t feel that same sense of closeness and intimate partnership as I did when I could hit Healing Breeze.
Further to emphasize, look at the list of skills to chose from in Guild Wars 1. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_monk_skills
Formerly we could build our characters to how we wanted to play. Guild Wars 2, by comparison, is “You are a cookie.” There isn’t even a cookie cutter sheet to reference. You have one meta option and that’s it. That’s your class. A cookie.

Anyone else feel the lack?

Going back to the microwave example; it is as though I thought I had bought a microwave, but was instead sold the shell of one. I have the basic definition of the product, but the pairs and pieces are not included. Nor are they being sold.

So… At this point I feel the game has gone no-where long enough. It’s time to ask the question, “Is this game heading for its grave?”

Anyone else feeling the severe sense of decline?

For me, it’s the Healthy and Appropriate vibe that is chipping away at my characters. I don’t care about them much any more. It doesn’t feel like it’s so much about being equal as deliberately having something taken away from me. Guess choices and options are only extended for some things.

Eirdyne.9843:

Anyone else feel the lack?

A lot of us do.

It’s gotten to the point that some of us have stopped even bothering to say “These are the things we’d like to see!” to “Just tell us what, if anything, is on the way.”

Feels weird having to beg an MMO developer to just mention the barest of plans for the future. Asking for hope feels…pathetic.

While “the game is dying” posts often get leapt upon, and I won’t make any general claims or extrapolations, I have noticed a significant drop in enthusiasm and time played from people I know in game since about August.

Starting to feel a sense of decline ?

Heh… try hopping over on to WvWvW for a while. Then you’ll get to know what a “sense of decline” really feels like.

Many of things you are talking about are part of the design. No healers is a positive element of the original game. It is not a sign of decline in any way, shape, or form. You can go sit in LFG waiting for a healer in a million different MMOs. Do so if you wish.

All MMOs suffer from lack of content unless they put a gear grind into place that players never finish. GW2 certainly does need new content but at least we only have to wait a fortnight instead of waiting another 9 months.

Your list of things added to GW2 is deficient.

I don’t know if this is because you are ignorant of the full list or if you are intentionally limiting it in order to underhandedly try to make an invalid point look valid, but until you do an actual apples to apples comparison you will not have a valid point.

I did an apples to apples comparison. Do you see new content to the extent of Guild Wars 1 or at pace with Guild Wars 1? I’d quiet whether or not you were paid to ask that question of intentionally limiting it because very seriously, I can do a one to one comparison. And as a matter of fact, I did. Guild Wars 1 released as Prophecies. It is the map we are currently playing in by and large. Then came Factions. Do you see Cantha on the map? I don’t. Do you see Elona on the map? I don’t. Do you see the variety and quantity of skills and character builds we had in Guild Wars 1? I don’t. So no, I made my post to address these questions. If you feel I didn’t speak to enough things lacking or found go make your own post and try not to troll others.

I’d quiet wonder* whether

Eirdyne.9843:

I did an apples to apples comparison. Do you see new content to the extent of Guild Wars 1 or at pace with Guild Wars 1? I’d quiet whether or not you were paid to ask that question of intentionally limiting it because very seriously, I can do a one to one comparison. And as a matter of fact, I did. Guild Wars 1 released as Prophecies. It is the map we are currently playing in by and large. Then came Factions. Do you see Cantha on the map? I don’t. Do you see Elona on the map? I don’t. Do you see the variety and quantity of skills and character builds we had in Guild Wars 1? I don’t. So no, I made my post to address these questions. If you feel I didn’t speak to enough things lacking or found go make your own post and try not to troll others.

You’ve answered the question. You are an intellectually dishonest person who is cherry picking the data you like in order to present provably false statements as truth in order to give the appearance of support to your invalid premise.

Good day.

Yep, you’re a troll. Have fun.

4pm eastern.

PvP SoloQ servers: 10 not empty, 5 had 1 player each.

I would have to say that’s pretty sad.

Eirdyne.9843:

Yep, you’re a troll. Have fun.

I’m inclined to agree with him though. Unfortunately you are comparing apples and oranges based on your own assumptions. The only things gw1 and 2 share are lore and developer. So going to the fruit example, is like wanting an orange to taste like an Apple because they come from the same farm. It’s just not going to happen.

So, while i think he was trying to sound smart, you can’t compare how each game’s content is released when they both have a very different take on how they were designed.

I agree with OP, and this LS model is just isn’t cutting it, especially this last one. It needs an expansion like GW1 to maintain players interest. Just going by my guild, people are logging in less and less.

GW1 and GW2 aren’t really comparable for new contents. The LS model and the expansion one are really hard to line up.

However, with that said, the thing I appreciated most about the expansion, new lands to explore and new classes to play are missing from GW2. Yes we’ve seen some small new areas opened up and I do appreciate those, but overall, the LS model has been a failure in my eyes.

Judge for yourself.

Souto.2716:

Unfortunately you are comparing apples and oranges based on your own assumptions.

To be honest – I think he have every right to do so. He compare apple to orange, only because he bought apple and got orange instead. It’s not his fault that Anet on many ocasions (prior to release) said things like “everything You love from Guild Wars with everything You love from open world MMO” (more or less).

I don’t know about OP, but I bought GW2 because it was supposed to be sequel to GW1 and I’m still in love with that game. Based on promises and reassurance from Anet I paid for a product that actually never existed.
Don’t get me wrong – poor or biased reviews sold to me many, oh so many games I would never buy otherwise (Dragon Age 2 – I’m looking at You!), but it’s one thing to get overhyped about something, and other to buy apple and find orange in the bag. Really tasty orange to do it justice, but still – it’s not an apple.

Wizzlock.3492:

He compare apple to orange, only because he bought apple and got orange instead.

argh…..indeed…..but why did you bring it up….it’s like salt in a wound. It will never heal since they never apologized for the bait and switch and merely tried to explain it away….

“No no no, don’t look over there, look over HERE! flash of light fluffy smoke fills the screen seizures begin to fade

“See, this is the game we were working on, you were merely confused!”

Eirdyne.9843:

This is not a critique, post. I’m intending this as a question. “Is Guild Wars 2 beginning to feel like it is in a severe decline?”

TLDR: No, it feels more vibrant than ever.

Eirdyne.9843:

Here’s my reasoning behind the question:

We’re getting new maps now, but we’re not actually seeing any improvement to the game as a whole. Yes, the game is maintained, but that’s not to say improved or expanded upon. Guild Wars 1 was released in 2005, Factions 2006, Nightfall 2006, and Eye of the North 2007.

I just want to define an “expansion”: where in that you have to buy the original game to use it. By that definition:

Factions == standalone game, not an expansion but did tie into Prophecies if you had it.
Nightfall == standalone game, not an expansion but did tie into Prophecies and/or Factions if you had it.
Eye of the North == expansion, could not be used if you didn’t have one (or more) of the proceeding games.

By this reasoning there was only one true expansion, and it came out 2 years after the original game. I know many will disagree but it’s simple fact.

Eirdyne.9843:

By comparison Guild Wars 2 has released…

…

EotM
Ascended Weapons and Armor (debatable if that was great but meh, I’m ok with it)
40 new Traits
16 new skills (all healing though)
Living Story 1 – epic battle and environment changing results (ah how I remember the green forested hills of Kessex Hills and the beauty of Lions Arch at night!)
Living Story 2 – 1 new area that is constantly expanding, new loot and shinies.
Tons of new achievements for vet players to unlock (some a bit easier than others)
Feature Pack (ok, NPE is 50/50, other changes can be argued but it IS an addition to the game)

I’m probably missing some, these are just off the top of my head.

Personally I hope their next big push is for PvP and WvW. They really need to refresh those areas of the game. I’m mostly a PvE player and even I know something needs to be done for those parts of the game. The addition of a PvP only armor skin tract is a good start but it’s only a start, more serious work needs to be done.

Eirdyne.9843:

So there’s a bit of a discrepancy here. Each expansion of Guild Wars 1 produced distinct new lands and new armors entirely unique to that expansion. With those came new character models, new classes, and new skills. By comparison, Guild Wars 2 has produced…

… a few token armor models: most you have to purchase via gem store

{snip}

This is somewhat more important as Guild Wars 2 released Gem Store items that were only relevant to playing in the Super Adventure Box. Effectively, removing the thing from future content is like scamming your players. “Buy this item so you can play more in this content!” …“We removed the content, ha-ha!”

Okay, we get it you have an issue with them earning a living. The business model of in game purchases instead of charging $40 a head for the same in a box just rubs you the wrong way. Okay we get it. It’s not like they are selling level ups, I mean who would do that … oh right, Blizzard. Where you can go to level 90 for the cheap price of $60.

Yeah, I’ll pass and keep this a good game that isn’t P2W like WoW has just become.

Eirdyne.9843:

{snip a bunch of really worthless fodder}

So… At this point I feel the game has gone no-where long enough. It’s time to ask the question, “Is this game heading for its grave?”

Anyone else feeling the severe sense of decline?

Reading through this all was like wading through a cesspool. Yeah had the hip waders on but the smell!!!

Either you are a shill or just have never really played the game (isn’t that the same?) and just compiled your info from the wikis. Saying it over and over is not going to make it true. GW2 is busier that I’ve ever seen it. More needs to be done for sure but heading to the grave?! Dying?! Nope not seeing it.

Many may disagree and as I said PvP and WvW need serious help, but I’m happy with how GW2 is evolving.

Peace.

Rose tinted glasses…all of the ‘new’ armors in the gw1 expansions were redskins of prophecies…and a lot of the new skills were just duplicates.

2 years in gw2 still has more than gw1 did at this stage.

Sube Dai.8496:

Rose tinted glasses…all of the ‘new’ armors in the gw1 expansions were redskins of prophecies…and a lot of the new skills were just duplicates.

2 years in gw2 still has more than gw1 did at this stage.

Agree about skins, hard to agree with anything else.
To be honest it feels more like – 1 year and GW1 had more than GW2 has in twice longer time. But it’s rather subjective, don’t You think?

GW1 maps were very small and simple compared to GW2 maps. You can’t expect the same schedule at in GW2 for map releases and especially if their main focus isn’t necessarily in pumping out new maps.

Ayrilana.1396:

GW1 maps were very small and simple compared to GW2 maps. You can’t expect the same schedule at in GW2 for map releases and especially if their main focus isn’t necessarily in pumping out new maps.

Agreed and they were often very linear. There was no going in whatever direction you wanted to, you had to follow the “paths” as laid out in the map. Prophecies was was not as bad but it started getting worse and this was especially true with EotN maps.

Peace.

Castrin.8972:

Ayrilana.1396:

GW1 maps were very small and simple compared to GW2 maps. You can’t expect the same schedule at in GW2 for map releases and especially if their main focus isn’t necessarily in pumping out new maps.

Agreed and they were often very linear. There was no going in whatever direction you wanted to, you had to follow the “paths” as laid out in the map. Prophecies was was not as bad but it started getting worse and this was especially true with EotN maps.

Peace.

Yeah. Remove all of the textures and highlight just the walkable areas. You essentially have a bunch of rooms connected by various hallways. Only a few would be what I would consider open like GW2 maps.

Here’s the bottom line.
2000 to 2005.
From 3 to 170 employees have produced GW1

2005 to 2007
12 months later the full campaign Factions
6 more months later Nightfall campaign.
10 months later the expansion Eye of the North.
During those 10 months they even had been working on Utopia which they dumped
in favor of Eye of The North.

2007 to 2012
From 170 to 370 to produce GW 2.
August 2012 release date.
3 months later a new map “Southsun Cove” which had nothing to do with the storyline but where your character can now take a vacation…WoW
Labyrinthine Cliffs July 2013 not an official map based on wiki still fun after 2 festivals but getting old.
Dry Top 1/8 of a map July 1st.
Dry Top 1/8 of the same map, at this rate Dry Top will be completed and the same size Wildlands by the end of October.
Don’t get me wrong I still love the game but this is not the same Anet as GW 1’s days with 2 very important founders and some staff gone some of which I’m sure didn’t like the direction the company was taking, nothing new here it happens everywhere but Anet is no longer the quality company it used to be. Yeah you might even say I’ve stopped being a fanboy and I’m now simply a dissatisfied player.

The rumor is for an expansion pack for 2015 at the rate things are going it better be a good and big expansion or Anet won’t last another 3 years and that would be sad. I still love this game don’t get me wrong, I still clock a solid 30 minutes a day instead of 7 hours a day then it’s Assassin’s Creed Unity time a good time that is.

Lucky are we Caithe said she will bear our pain of a 40 minutes LS ride on the 18th.
MMORPG said they did it 31:59. One more thing most players and the Anet staff don’t realise, when and if an expansion comes out most of those who left won’t ever come back.
Why do I say this you ask?

The number one reason is when you apply the law of silence and indifference like a dictator people loose faith.

i’m sure they’re aware of the issue and looking into it and appreciate your feedback
expansion in 2016, turns out to be pvp map the size of southsun cove
decline, what decline?

Sube Dai.8496:

Rose tinted glasses…all of the ‘new’ armors in the gw1 expansions were redskins of prophecies…and a lot of the new skills were just duplicates.

2 years in gw2 still has more than gw1 did at this stage.

As far as I remember, there were no (or at least very few) reskins of Prophesies armor in Factions. Nightfall did have a few, but most were not. Only GWEN had substantial reskins, in part because it was basically the salvaged remnants of a larger game, and still there were plenty of armor that weren’t reskins.

Well.. what do the metrics say?
Whether or not the game “feels” like it’s in decline doesn’t matter.
As long as the metrics show that people are logging in, all is well.
This includes those that log in quickly just to see who else is on.. or just to do the daily… or just to check on something on the TP… and then log off for the night.
The metrics show that people are logging in… that’s all that’s important.