Guild Wars 2

I used to play this game for fun.

I play the dungeons for fun. The rewards are great, but it’s not my only motivation to play them. I have thousands of dungeon tokens in my bank now (not exaggerating at all). I don’t find dungeons a chore, I enjoy them, so I keep doing them.

I made time for the Halloween one-time event, all I got was a cut-scene, and it was worth it. I felt good about the whole thing because that was what one-time events should be—a treat for those who came for it, but no loss for those who couldn’t.

I made time for the first two Lost Shores events too, and they were great too. A cut-scene, dynamic events, and typical dynamic event awards. A little painful because of the lag, but it felt good because, again, it was a treat for those who came, but it was okay for those who couldn’t.

Dungeons and events used to be fun. I did/attended them because I enjoyed the experience. I was intrinsically motivated to do them. (Intrinsic motivation: “refers to motivation that is driven by an interest or enjoyment in the task itself” – Wikipedia.) And I would have continued to do them for a long time, because there isn’t an end-goal or a limit to fun.

Now, I do the Fractals for the loot, and I endured the final Lost Shores event for the loot.

The Fractals would have been fun by themselves. But my focus shifted to acquiring Ascended gear (as much as I am against them) instead of the experience of the dungeons themselves.

I endured the tedium of the Lost Shores finale, because there was a chance of getting great loot. I wanted to get it over and done with, and get to the final chest as soon as possible.

All of a sudden, my motivation for the game has became extrinsic (“refers to the performance of an activity in order to attain an outcome” – Wikipedia). I do the dungeons and event for the goal of loot.

This change in motivation has eroded the intrinsic enjoyment I was getting out of the game. And unlike intrinsic motivation, which keeps one going, extrinsic motivation ends with the attainment of the outcome. That is why, in many games, there has to be a continuous supply of new and more powerful item tiers—to keep players extrinsically motivated.

I can already feel the shift in what motivates me to play the game. The last three days have cast a shadow over how I feel about the game, not only about dungeons and events, but over the whole game. I don’t care much for items, and I don’t think this new extrinsic motivation can hold my attention for long.

TLDR: Used to be intrinsically motivated to play the game (playing game for the enjoyment of game itself), now extrinsically motivated to play the game (playing game to get loot). Extrinsic motivation doesn’t last, requires continuous supply of carrots.

Thanks for saying this. I’ve been feeling the same way, but wasn’t able to describe it so well.

/off topic
I shouldn’t be amazed, yet I continually am, at the intelligence and insight I keep running into. I realize that gamers have a bad reputation (most people seem to think they’re either teenagers playing endlessly in Mom’s basement, or asocial adults playing endlessly in Mom’s basement).

But here’s more evidence that many are thoughtful, well educated people.

Sorry for the almost-threadjack. I’ve just been seeing some very well thought-out and (in some cases) poignant posts here and there.

axiology.5807:

TLDR: Used to be intrinsically motivated to play the game (playing game for the enjoyment of game itself), now extrinsically motivated to play the game (playing game to get loot). Extrinsic motivation doesn’t last, requires continuous supply of carrots.

This is a brilliantly succinct way to describe what’s happening. Nice job on that.

axiology.5807:

Used to be intrinsically motivated to play the game (playing game for the enjoyment of game itself), now extrinsically motivated to play the game (playing game to get loot). Extrinsic motivation doesn’t last, requires continuous supply of carrots.

That’s quite interesting.

If you didn’t need any reward but the enjoyment of gameplay before, and the gameplay hasn’t changed, why does the extra reward matter now? Is it instead your perceptions of the same gameplay or the game itself that have changed, and if so, did they change before or after the patch was released?

Is it possible you were also extrinsically motivated before, which is why changes to ‘maximum’ stats, gear and power levels matter at all?

Welcome to the skinner box that is vertical gear progression. It trains you to do things you don’t want to do by generating a need for the rush of getting a treat at the end. In common terms, we call that “addiction”, because even though you don’t really “need” it, your brain treats it as a “need” and you find yourself pursuing the treat to the detriment of all other considerations.

Chuo, Crater, you two are too kind!

Sigh, how I wish I was wrong about the Ascended items, how I wish I was too distracted with the game. Instead I just feel strangely reluctant to log in.

Well said OP.

Before overhauling their 7 year design vision, Arenanet leaders felt the same way. Just the statement they made about creating a game for fun and not a carrot on a stick shows they understood intrinsic motivation.

Now someone within their organization has decided that does not work, or is too hard to maintain, or just is not the way they would do it. Bam, plenty destruction of its core product feature. Bam, create destruction of its brand and company reputation. Many people bought this game because they knew it would not have gear progression. Only time will tell how many will leave because of this change?

Worse, because they significantly changed the product after purchase, there could be real grounds for product deception filings with your federal authorities. There is way too much video and written evidence by Arenanet stating that they never intended to introduce gear stat progression into the game. They repeatedly stated that gear progression would be cosmetic only.

Whether you like this change or not, is not the issue. It is an issue of brand cannibalization, erosion of consumer trust, and potentially deceiving a paying customer.

Roven Leafsong.8917:

axiology.5807:

Used to be intrinsically motivated to play the game (playing game for the enjoyment of game itself), now extrinsically motivated to play the game (playing game to get loot). Extrinsic motivation doesn’t last, requires continuous supply of carrots.

That’s quite interesting.

If you didn’t need any reward but the enjoyment of gameplay before, and the gameplay hasn’t changed, why does the extra reward matter now? Is it instead your perceptions of the same gameplay or the game itself that have changed, and if so, did they change before or after the patch was released?

Is it possible you were also extrinsically motivated before, which is why changes to ‘maximum’ stats, gear and power levels matter at all?

The fact is that how a player perceptions a game is important.

Does one stops to resurrect someone just because of the XP reward?
No, but the reward being there certainly helps – the game is acknowledging that you are playing it correctly.

Likewise mobs being shared, loot for everyone, etc, creates an environment of no competition and that pushes it to cooperation.

The game gives bigger rewards to those playing fractals.
What does that tell you?

Well I have pretty much no motivation to play the game. I’ve barely logged in since the announcement of ascended.

Chuo.4238:

/off topic
I shouldn’t be amazed, yet I continually am, at the intelligence and insight I keep running into. I realize that gamers have a bad reputation (most people seem to think they’re either teenagers playing endlessly in Mom’s basement, or asocial adults playing endlessly in Mom’s basement).

But here’s more evidence that many are thoughtful, well educated people.

Sorry for the almost-threadjack. I’ve just been seeing some very well thought-out and (in some cases) poignant posts here and there.

Also, do not want to hijack this thread, but you are dead on. Studies have shown that the average age of gamers is in the 30s now. Many of these people have real life responsibilities that reduces their play time. They are often called “casuals” although I do not necessarily agree with that characterization. The point is that they are more mature and intelligent that many gaming companies recognize. This has been to some of those companies detriment (cough Bioware not expecting ppl to notice the flaws in ME3 cough).

Gaming marketing analysts need to update their studies and begin to recognize the shift in the reason the average gamer buys/plays. For many, they just want a game that is fun and not one that feels like a job or obligation.

Roven Leafsong.8917:

axiology.5807:

Used to be intrinsically motivated to play the game (playing game for the enjoyment of game itself), now extrinsically motivated to play the game (playing game to get loot). Extrinsic motivation doesn’t last, requires continuous supply of carrots.

That’s quite interesting.

If you didn’t need any reward but the enjoyment of gameplay before, and the gameplay hasn’t changed, why does the extra reward matter now? Is it instead your perceptions of the same gameplay or the game itself that have changed, and if so, did they change before or after the patch was released?

Is it possible you were also extrinsically motivated before, which is why changes to ‘maximum’ stats, gear and power levels matter at all?

It is very possibly a matter of perception. However, I don’t think I was extrinsically motivated. Items simply did not exist as an issue in my mind previously—they were so accessible, you could get them by doing whatever you wanted. I didn’t have to consciously think about them because there were no obstacles to acquiring them. Items were not on my mind (if that makes sense).

Now, I perceive them to be something that I have to go out of the way to get, and I just want to get them as quickly as possible so that I can move on. The motivation shifted from being an intangible enjoyment of the game to a specific, tedious, but short-term goal. I hope this makes sense.

You were able to come to some heavy philosophical conclusions on the future of the game within like 2 playable days after this update. I have to say that they seem quite familiar, as if those same concerns were posted here over and over ever since the update was announced.

I’m sure that predisposition to strongly held belief had no influence on your insight, but as humans, we can never be sure, can we.

How does this make sense? The gameplay has changed.
What was a game where you could hit max-stats (PvE) with ease, without much effort, without the average-mmo-i-have-to-spend-x-hours-or-i`m-drasticaly-behind-thingy, has become a WoW-clone.
Before this new carrot-on-stick-mechanic, everyone could get the max-gear in the way he wanted and since it was max, the player wasn`t forced to do it with/in x amount of time.
Now it has become what every other MMO is out there, do dungeon x, x times, x amount of time to get max stats, with new updates → the same thing all over again.
The only reason to grind dungeons before was cosmetic, it had no impact on the way you could play the game or go trough content.
The argument that your not forced to get max stats is invalid aswell, cause you have to get there if you want to get all content..it`s the core essence of the carrot-on-stick-average-WoW-clone-MMO.
So a game which you could just play if you wanted to, hop in and out without gettin “behind” has turned into a gear-check-grind-fest-again.

So yes Roven, the gameplay has changed. Instead of beeing a skill/build-game it`s now a WoW-geargrind-make-dates-in-your-calender-to-get-x-gear-in-x-time-game.
This is not a subjective feeling, this is literaly what`s all over Anet`s-Statements.
The dissapointment many GW1-players and players in general (myself included) vocalize around forums might come from the fact that there are already 100000 WoW-clones out there.
And don`t argue bout the combat-system, every WoW-clone has a diffrent little tweak and that`s it.
I bet half my salary that most people who complain bout this crazy new change in design-philosophy have already played games like this. They are not complaining cause they are not “leed”, not “skilled” enough or fear to get behind in e-pen-size…they complain cause they don`t want the same boring game all over again.

Runes of Magic is much better grinding game then this

After yesterday’s event I’ve developer a sudden aversion to bosses with grossly overinflated healthbars to compensate for any real difficulty to them. It’s put me off 90% of the level 80 content.

Maybe it was the masses of champion Karka that did it.

Mr Crazy Moose.5760:

After yesterday’s event I’ve developer a sudden aversion to bosses with grossly overinflated healthbars to compensate for any real difficulty to them. It’s put me off 90% of the level 80 content.

Maybe it was the masses of champion Karka that did it.

Psh, any aversion can be cured with the chance of Dusk dropping.

I think this is the new normal, to be honest.

Whole guilds, heck whole zones of people, commenting about how they felt the final Karka event was terrible; be it the lag, the fact that it was just constant wipe after wipe to an army of mobs no one could see due to rendering/culling, the “reinforcements” phase that lasted 45 minutes, the seemingly complete lack of random drops on the island other than crab meat. In the end, everyone I knew was just trudging through the event (or AFK just out of death range) waiting for it to end so they could get their chance at precursor RNG.

“There better be good rewards at the end, because I haven’t been having fun for 2+ hours” was the mantra of the night. Once someone reported you could get precursors, people perked up and it became “I hope I get good loot to make this worth it, because this is just painfully bad.” This weekend’s events, and the island, felt very much like hurdles to jump just for the chest at the end.

The FotM dungeon is definitely fun, at least a few times. Sadly, it has turned people that used to group up and do content for fun and to help each other, and maybe for dungeon tokens to buy gear or gear out alts, into difficulty-level-counting-monsters. The ease of getting groups has declined, even amongst friends and guildies for many, as no one wants to “waste their time” redoing a FotM tier they already finished … everyone has eyes on “better drops at higher difficulty” and Ascended.