Guild Wars 2

As a Guild Wars player, I feel like one of the things that made Guild Wars feel so huge is the lack of waypoints in the game. You can only travel to outposts in Guild Wars, so to travel throughout zones it would be quite a challenge.

I believe that one of the reasons the game feels a bit smaller than it should be is because the waypoints give you quick and easy access to everything. Maybe it’s to be casual friendly? I don’t know, I feel like the game is too casual friendly but that’s a completely different discussion.

Should Guild Wars 2 have fewer waypoints?

Edit: grammar, oops.

Fewer, not less waypoints, by the way

I think if it’s gonna have a waypoint system, this set up is good. For the lowbie zones, waypoints are rarely contested, so you can get where you want. BUT before you can ever get to one, you have to walk there first.

Walk speed is slow, and particularly as you level up, the zone design has so many unclimbable hills and maze-like construction that it can take you a mile of running to travel to a point that’s 50 ft away as the crow flies. So we need waypoints, cuz no one should have to walk thru these gawd awful zones more than once.

mulch.2586:

Fewer, not less waypoints, by the way

I think if it’s gonna have a waypoint system, this set up is good. For the lowbie zones, waypoints are rarely contested, so you can get where you want. BUT before you can ever get to one, you have to walk there first.

Walk speed is slow, and particularly as you level up, the zone design has so many unclimbable hills and maze-like construction that it can take you a mile of running to travel to a point that’s 50 ft away as the crow flies. So we need waypoints, cuz no one should have to walk thru these gawd awful zones more than once.

The zones aren’t all that bad at all. I guess Guild Wars wouldn’t be your type of game then.

As far as I’m concerned, there’s far too many of them. A lot of the time, they’re also very close to each other.

“Should Guild Wars 2 have less waypoints?”

No.

Might be so people can get to dynamic group content, makes it easier and faster.

How was the inventory space situation in GW?

I could deal with it. Probably make the game seem larger. There really are too many in some zones. SoD comes to mind.

Nope, I like them. I don’t want to spend 20 minutes getting to a place that I’ve been to 5 times already. I also wish they were free. It might get more people out in the world.

Yes, i hated this in Rift (it had loads aswell as mounts). At least the cost stops me using them as much in GW2 though.

One thing that always annoys me with the “running” option is that if I get into combat for any reason, my run speed is immediately slowed to a snail’s pace even if I have swiftness. I’m not sure why this is the case, but it’s absolutely frustrating as if I’m being forced to fight the mob…. which in lower zones might not be a big deal, but in any Orr map is an absolute pain.

Also if you lower the number of waypoints, you should lower the number that can be contested. It’s always lovely to check any Orr map to see all the points contested except for one that’s completely nowhere near your desired location.

I think players don’t realize running through a world means that they will encounter more random DEs and will make the world feel much larger.

dimgl.4786:

I think players don’t realize running through a world means that they will encounter more random DEs and will make the world feel much larger.

True, but at the same time if the rewards (karma, loot, monies) are kinda meh, then folks are gonna skip it.

dimgl.4786:

mulch.2586:

Fewer, not less waypoints, by the way

I think if it’s gonna have a waypoint system, this set up is good. For the lowbie zones, waypoints are rarely contested, so you can get where you want. BUT before you can ever get to one, you have to walk there first.

Walk speed is slow, and particularly as you level up, the zone design has so many unclimbable hills and maze-like construction that it can take you a mile of running to travel to a point that’s 50 ft away as the crow flies. So we need waypoints, cuz no one should have to walk thru these gawd awful zones more than once.

The zones aren’t all that bad at all. I guess Guild Wars wouldn’t be your type of game then.

GW wouldn’t be their type of game because of what they said? WOW, fanboi much? I guess you must be new to mmo’s and this is your first. Welcome to the mmo community! Yeah an entire mmo game must not be their type of game because they didn’t like certain zones. Some people truly amaze me. I think they have very valid points.

Nah, but I think for our waypoint money thing.
Waypoints should cost by DISTANCE and not level.
If they do it, then sorry didn’t realize it because I’m huffin’ it a lot because of the costs are almost 1 silver now for me.
:c

“Should Guild Wars 2 have less waypoints?”
No.

“Should Guild Wars 2 have less waypoints?”
HELL NO.

I wouldn’t mind if there were fewer waypoints. I like the idea of having to explore far and wide along with that added suspense of possibly being killed far from home…or waypoint. Add a whole new level to adventuring.

bojangles.6912:

dimgl.4786:

mulch.2586:

Fewer, not less waypoints, by the way

I think if it’s gonna have a waypoint system, this set up is good. For the lowbie zones, waypoints are rarely contested, so you can get where you want. BUT before you can ever get to one, you have to walk there first.

Walk speed is slow, and particularly as you level up, the zone design has so many unclimbable hills and maze-like construction that it can take you a mile of running to travel to a point that’s 50 ft away as the crow flies. So we need waypoints, cuz no one should have to walk thru these gawd awful zones more than once.

The zones aren’t all that bad at all. I guess Guild Wars wouldn’t be your type of game then.

GW wouldn’t be their type of game because of what they said? WOW, fanboi much? I guess you must be new to mmo’s and this is your first. Welcome to the mmo community! Yeah an entire mmo game must not be their type of game because they didn’t like certain zones. Some people truly amaze me. I think they have very valid points.

What are you talking about? I play all types of games, including World of Warcraft… and I’ve been playing MMOs since Everquest… I don’t understand what your point is.

I said Guild Wars. Not Guild Wars 2. In Guild Wars, zones are immense and are only seperated by usually one outpost at a time. I think I’m going to just stop coming to these forums.

For sure. Or, the other way is to up the cost of porting to x2 it is now.

Actually there shouldn’t be ‘waypoints’ in the sense of teleporting. If you are going to do something, then it should be a ‘fly/travel’ from point X to Y that you actually experience.

When you start doing these ‘teleports’ , it destroys the world and the community…just ask WoW and their flying mounts debacle and then the Dungeon Finder. There is nothing cooler then seeing a zone from above and traveling it to see the scope and scale and size. When WoW nixed that for the DF, you lost all sense of travel to the dungeons (and world PvP). When flying mounts were added, that killed any ground travel and encounters.

People in the world traveling is a GOOD thing. If it takes time, then it TAKES TIME.

Ryth.6518:

Actually there shouldn’t be ‘waypoints’ in the sense of teleporting. If you are going to do something, then it should be a ‘fly/travel’ from point X to Y that you actually experience.

When you start doing these ‘teleports’ , it destroys the world and the community…just ask WoW and their flying mounts debacle and then the Dungeon Finder.

People in the world traveling is a GOOD thing. If it takes time, then it TAKES TIME.

I don’t agree. Huge waste of my time flying to places. Always hated that about World of Warcraft.

Endymion.2369:

“Should Guild Wars 2 have less waypoints?”
HELL NO.

This, pretty much.

dimgl.4786:

Ryth.6518:

Actually there shouldn’t be ‘waypoints’ in the sense of teleporting. If you are going to do something, then it should be a ‘fly/travel’ from point X to Y that you actually experience.

When you start doing these ‘teleports’ , it destroys the world and the community…just ask WoW and their flying mounts debacle and then the Dungeon Finder.

People in the world traveling is a GOOD thing. If it takes time, then it TAKES TIME.

I don’t agree. Huge waste of my time flying to places. Always hated that about World of Warcraft.

You quoted Mulch though who was talking about GW2. The OP said he played GW1. Mulch, whom you quoted, never said anything about GW1 and was talking strictly about GW2 ports. And so you tell him GW wouldn’t be for him like he cares being he is playing GW2.

But even so the OP said he came from GW1 so obviously why would GW1 not be for him if he has already been playing it?

He wasn’t “complaining” bojangles. Just relax and read the text again without a sarcastic undertone. The other poster said, I quote:

So we need waypoints, cuz no one should have to walk thru these gawd awful zones more than once.

To that the answer was GW might not be your thing, because you have to run even more. (edit for emphasis: thru these gawd awful zones)

I don’t mind the running per se, but in this day people don’t want to sit and wait 15 minutes until some more people show up to do some group content. Of course this could also be addressed with a “summoning” system.

The other points for me would be inventory, bank, and BLTC access.

With regard to flying to places in WoW (via the flight routes)… While I agree the flight time was asinine, the cost was not.

No. Fewer waypoints can be bad.
It would be harder to reach the dynamic events when someone asked for help on the map.

Rouven.7409:

Might be so people can get to dynamic group content, makes it easier and faster.

How was the inventory space situation in GW?

Sounds great, but if there’s an event near the waypoint said wapoint is usually contested.

No I think it’s fine. You just have to stop using them, if you want the world to feel bigger. The only time I use waypoints is when other players are waiting for me at a dungeon, or when I am defeated. Other then that I always run from place to place, and collect mats/nodes on the way.

Agemnon.4608:

Rouven.7409:

Might be so people can get to dynamic group content, makes it easier and faster.

How was the inventory space situation in GW?

Sounds great, but if there’s an event near the waypoint said wapoint is usually contested.

I know eh, not for all but often for the really big guys.

No I think it’s fine. You just have to stop using them, if you want the world to feel bigger. The only time I use waypoints is when other players are waiting for me at a dungeon, or when I am defeated. Other then that I always run from place to place, and collect mats/nodes on the way.

With travel costs approaching absurd as your character levels, that’s exactly how I approach the game now. Waypoints are for getting to events, meeting people, and last-resort reviving. I’ll use the free asura gates for city-to-city travel sometimes. Otherwise, I run.

I kinda miss the idea of getting from A to B in Guild Wars, which could be a challenge unto itself sometimes. Don’t know how many times I made a low-level suicide dash to Lion’s Arch from Ascalon, or from Beacon’s Perch to Drok’s. Eh, could be just the nostalgia talking, but the “instant-access-to-everywhere” in GW2 is a bit of a downer even with its practical uses.

Why do people like time sinks? If there were no waypoints the game wouldn’t feel bigger, just more tedious and annoying. What’s fun about running across a zone full of mobs? I never really understood this way of thinking.

Why do people think you need to travel anywhere instantly?
Games with long travel times aren’t immediately “tedious and annoying”. Look at EVE. No fast travel at all unless you make use of clones (which can get expensive and are very limited in quantity).

Yet, because you can do anything you absolutely have to do from anywhere (make contracts, fight stuff, etc), only being able to quickly reach a handful of systems wasn’t a problem. It meant that when you met people, they were actually travelers or neighbors. Not just zounds of people randomly doing content.

Yes, waypoints can be a good thing (especially with dungeon content in specific zones).
Yes, this game is not EVE, and even dropping to 1 waypoint per zone would be overkill.

However, I do agree that this game has too many of them. They’re everywhere. If you have the money to spend, you can even do all your dailies with almost zero running.

Look at WvW. Waypoints matter. There just aren’t that many of them. Now, imagine if each WvW map had 18 waypoints intead of 6-7 (1 home wp for each shard, 3 keeps, and EB has the castle). You would start to attack a tower, and 90 seconds later the entire enemy would zerg you.

I would say drop about 1/3 to 50% of the waypoints. Use waypoints in key travel locations. IE, every zone change should have a waypoint (one side, or the other, not both like it is now). Every instance should have one right outside. Every zone should have one near its center. And then any quadrant of the map that doesn’t have one near its center (from filling the other criteria) should get 1. This would be a maximum of 3 (map connections / 2) + 1 (center) + 4 (quadrants) +1 (instance) = 9 waypoints. Then add another 2-3 waypoints to any zone that has waypoints that are often contested. Done.

Rick.1378:

Why do people like time sinks? If there were no waypoints the game wouldn’t feel bigger, just more tedious and annoying. What’s fun about running across a zone full of mobs? I never really understood this way of thinking.

It’s not that I’m so thrilled with time sinks. It’s just that I’m thrilled less by money sinks. Waypoints fees are tedious and annoying.

As mentioned above, I did enjoy the necessity of running to many major locations in Guild Wars, but GW2 is a different game with an entirely different mode of exploration and travel. Fewer waypoints would likely have a direct and severe [negative] impact on how players come together for dynamic events and such.

@ Viro, nobody is forcing you to use the waypoints, I’m not sure why they are an issue. If I’ve already seen the content I don’t have much of a desire to see it again and again, but if you do then feel free to run through it without using the waypoint as often as you like. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely loved running thru the zones the first time, GW2 is such a cool game to do that with. I can’t argue with you on WvW, although I have mixed feelings about that. On one hand I think less waypoints are better because there should always be a danger you will get ambushed or not make it to your team, but at the same time playing WvW it seems like at times there is absolutely nobody around and I’m running across a very large map, tedious and annoying.

@UndeadRufus Yeah I agree, money sinks for the waypoints are annoying, but I would think that having them be a moneysink would appease the people who don’t want them. If you need to travel so badly then you are going to spend the money.

I just remember on the times when Dragons landed in certain zones and the waypoints helped to ensure I was there, with an event that only happens a few times a day it’s kind of important that I don’t get stuck running all day.

Makes no difference to me, I hardly ever use them anyway.

They’re fine as they are, considering that at times they can be contested (this is extremely apparent in Orr zones), I just wish the ones in the capital cities were free to travel to no matter where you are.

Would save a couple of load screens going from WvW to LA to The Grove, for example. Cost is still zero so I don’t see why not.

No.

No, it shouldn’t have fewer waypoints.

If you don’t like waypoints then don’t use them. It’s that simple. Their very presence doesn’t force you to jump around with them. It’s an option.

I have a real problem with people complaining that I shouldn’t be able to play the way I want to because community!

These posts basically come down to, “Please, ANet, remove other people’s options. I’m so terribly concerned with what they are doing. I want them to be forced to play the way I do, otherwise my experience is not fulfilling.”

I think it’s perfectly fine but I don’t care either way because I never use them, I’m just too much of a cheapskate.

I also played GW1 and have done so a couple times since launch (despite already finishing my GWAMM). I feel like GW2 is larger than GW1. I actually feel like WP travel in GW2 is considerably worse and less convenient than map travel. Going back to GW1 map travel is a truly free and convenient feeling. The places I can travel to are less (only to outposts, missions and cities) but I can do it freely. Sure if I want to go from an outpost to a quest location or look at a certain piece of lore or a landmark I’d need to walk across the entire zone, but in GW2 I still have to do that, only the first time.

To be honest, I found I barely used waypoint travel at max level aside from the stuff I would have used it for in GW1 (travelling across entire maps). The cost is way out of line with the money you get from playing the game normally that if you used it the same way you use it at lower levels, you would lose money. It’s one of my bigger issues with the GW2 design philosphy and to me it changes the way the game is played once you reach max level compared to lower levels. Going back to low level areas with bad loot, it feels awful running all over the map because waypoints cost so much, but unless you want a low level area to become a gold sink, it kind of has to be done.

To this end I actually don’t care for the number of waypoints because tbh, they are so expensive I barely use them for what they were intended to be used for. I found GW1 map travel much more convenient because it was free. If anything, I think more waypoint should be added in dungeons to make players repeatedly run the same content less and remove something which only acts as a time sink.

Actually to be honest, I feel like way points are great, and they are fine in number currently, but what should be adjusted is price.

Waypoints I feel should be most expensive when starting out, sa they should be only used to get from one place to another if necessary, but otherwise force the player to actually go through the content between the two way points. Once we hit 80, were more or less goign about doing exploratory functions and other things, and should be relatively cheaper. Once you are 80, you arent going to need to explore content youve already cleared, but hte cost can be a bit high if you are jumping all over the place via waypoitns.

You know, I don’t like the cost of the way points at all.I know they are sup. to be money sinks but that stinks to me.The world is fairly large and its going to get larger.If you don’t like using way points,then don’t.If you do then great. I honestly wouldn’t mind less way points if we could get mounts. Yes i said the dirty word, mounts.Either style would be fine flying or ground given they ran/flew faster than we can on foot.

Played many a game with them and never had an issue.To each their own though.I just know i wouldn’t want to walk all the way from one major city to an area on the other side of the map.

I find it more important that you can get to DE’s fast with the current amout of waypoints. This way I arrive in time when someone is asking for help in map chat. So no, I wouldn’t like having fewer waypoints.

If they are going to charge an arm and a leg for them then I think yes, less waypoints would be preferable. To compensate I think they could buff the duration of movement enhancing skills by 3-5 seconds each.

not without giving us mounts.. no they shouldn’t.

I don’t see how mounts could fit in the world of GW2, there areas just are not big enough for 1 thing.

And with such dense mob populations you’re gonna get knocked off your mount every 3 feet anyways.

I’ll admit, sometimes I come across a way point and I’m like, “WTF is a way point here??”

Fewer way points isn’t a bad idea. And I’d like to see some other changes.

All way points should be in some form of base or town or city. And this also means there should be some type of merchant and some type of repair ability by EVERY way point.

Fewer way points; more merchants and repair.

Repair is such a big deal in this game I can’t understand why there are not more places to repair.

I’d say no. More waypoints are good for meeting up with friends. I use them for that. If I’m soloing stuff then I don’t use them as much.

Nope. Its the exact right amount of Waypoints. The game world is still meaningful without much downtime by walking distances.
One of the things I absolutely love about Guild Wars 2 is the travel system.