Guild Wars 2

There has been some talk of wanting to remove or change the map completion requirement attached to WvW here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-Remove-Map-Completion-from-PvP-Areas/page/3#post4436081

But beyond that discussion (and some debate) there is another point that I see coming up:

Should Legendary items require more than one game mode for you to get them?

Keep in mind that due to the number of Legendaries for sale, they already only require any game mode that will get you currency over time; you can then, eventually, buy one.

But if you want to do the crafting process yourself (we’ll leave precursors out of this discussion for now) you have to get ahold of the Gifts that are involved in making your Legendary. Briefly, using Twilight as an example, you need Gift of Battle, which costs 500 Badges of Honor and World Rank 14 or higher; Gift of Exploration, which requires full completion of the World Map in both open world and WvW; and Gift of Ascalon, which requires 500 Ascalonian Tears (dungeon tokens).

Those are the most distinctively “go into this game mode to acquire the item” parts of the process. And it means you need to go spend some time in all 3 of WvW, Open World, and Dungeons.

So the question for debate here is: Why or why not should the crafting process require you to go into 3 distinct game modes to craft your Legendary?

One reason that I feel it should not require different game modes is that some players help keep certain areas of the game vibrant and active by playing them exclusively. The legendary process – which undoubtedly appeals to some of these players – is out of reach within their game mode and thus discourages them from playing their one mode exclusively; it actively pulls them away from their core loyalty to one game mode, which can hurt player activity in certain areas.

What is your position? Let me know!

P. S. Yes, I realize that they already have a system in place and it may never change. This is a hypothetical discussion.

I believe the requirement of multiple game modes in order to complete a legendary has encouraged some people to sort their way out with the Great Sellers , like me, and as a result got scammed. So I would say the grind is a bit too much, and require too much time outside of my work hours.

Dothl Lai.5829:

I believe the requirement of multiple game modes in order to complete a legendary has encouraged some people to sort their way out with the Great Sellers , like me, and as a result got scammed. So I would say the grind is a bit too much, and require too much time outside of my work hours.

So, you bought gold from a third party, knowing it was not only against the ToS but also likely not safe. And you’re trying to say that was Anet’s fault somehow. Nice.

Personally, I think that Legendaries should require you to participate in pretty much every sort of content in the game. Having a Legendary should be a status symbol, and I think it’s a great gating mechanism to show you’re dedicated enough to the game that you’d go through so much for a Legendary.

Because, let’s be honest here, most people going for a legendary know they aren’t doing it for the stats. It’s because it looks pretty. And if they wanna do that for a pretty chunk of pixels, more to them.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Dothl Lai.5829:

I believe the requirement of multiple game modes in order to complete a legendary has encouraged some people to sort their way out with the Great Sellers , like me, and as a result got scammed. So I would say the grind is a bit too much, and require too much time outside of my work hours.

So, you bought gold from a third party, knowing it was not only against the ToS but also likely not safe. And you’re trying to say that was Anet’s fault somehow. Nice.

If you would like to frame it that way, go ahead. I don’t even bother to explain.

Off to top of my head: Ideally, legendaries “should” require an effort in every single part of the game, from levelling to personal story to living world to WvW – all of it should be an element. In practice however…as long as you can buy a legendary off the TP with no effort of your own except waving your credit card…I don’t really see the point.

(Has no legendary and wouldn’t want to buy a finished one).

I think the current process is fine. The only requirement outside of PvE is getting wvw map completion, as everyone gets plenty of badges of honor through achievement chests. One change that could be made is to allow a player to complete wvw or eotm maps. Eotm is basically a PvE champ train, most PvE players could easily complete the map.

I would like to see them add some sort of requirement from PvP, so that crafting a legendary truly requires all game modes.

@Cassandra: The trading post thing was rattling around in my head the whole time I was writing my post. I agree completely, but I can’t see the Legendaries suddenly becoming Account Bound for no reason.

I mean, I thought they always should have been from the start. This is the only MMO I can think of where the “ultimate tier” weapons are buyable/tradable…

I wish they would make Legendaries untradeable again after a lengthy warning period so that people don’t get stuck with Legendaries they don’t want.

After that, they should change the current process so that it requires actual effort. Make the WvW gift requirement much, much more brutal. Bump up the required WvW level and tie it to the WvW seasons somehow. After that, add an element that requires lengthy amounts of time in sPvP.

Basically, make a Legendary what it should be: A sign of someone who has done all that the game has to offer.

Olba.5376:

I wish they would make Legendaries untradeable again after a lengthy warning period so that people don’t get stuck with Legendaries they don’t want.

After that, they should change the current process so that it requires actual effort. Make the WvW gift requirement much, much more brutal. Bump up the required WvW level and tie it to the WvW seasons somehow. After that, add an element that requires lengthy amounts of time in sPvP.

Basically, make a Legendary what it should be: A sign of someone who has done all that the game has to offer.

It should only require participation in the modes you can the legendary to. You can’t with sPvP. So the requirements shouldn’t have it. PvP should get some really nice looking skins to work for as their legendary weapons.

There is only One game mode required to get a legendary. The Farming Mode.

So saying that getting a legendary should require playing all facets of the game is somewhat naive.

You farm… you get gold… you buy on the BLTP.
Now if you are not a fan of that:
You purchase gems with cash… you convert to gold… you buy on the BLTP.

My point is it does not require you to even play the game to get one so calling out what modes should be required is a moot point.

Now that said. If you could get one by only doing openworld PvE I would be fine with it. But alas they currently require dungeon tokens and I don’t do dungeons and a Pre which the RNG Fairy has yet to bless me with, so looks like no legendary for me.
Oh and as for cash. The Bifrost has increased in price (the last time I looked) by 1000gp in a years time. Just it’s inflation increase is more money than I possess.

I have to agree that ANet really “cheapened” legendaries in most players’ minds because they can be sold/traded.

I personally feel more for those players who only want to play WvW and must slog through tremendously large PvE maps to make a legendary. I mean really, for PvE players, if they simply spend time getting things they need in WvW, maybe need to spend a total of 1-2 hours in there to get all the POIs and Vistas, whereas it would take what, a hundred hours to get PvE map completion?

I think that if you really want a legendary, you will do what you need to do. Personally, I’m glad that actual PvP is not a requirement! I suck at it.

All that said, should it require 3 game modes? I ask, why should it require less? Something called legendary shouldn’t be obtained in a matter of hours. Even if you’re going to buy one with RL cash, you’re not earning $700/hr, I assume. You’ve gotta work for it somewhere along the line.

No. I think you should be able to play the content you like and get all the rewards.

Seera.5916:

Olba.5376:

I wish they would make Legendaries untradeable again after a lengthy warning period so that people don’t get stuck with Legendaries they don’t want.

After that, they should change the current process so that it requires actual effort. Make the WvW gift requirement much, much more brutal. Bump up the required WvW level and tie it to the WvW seasons somehow. After that, add an element that requires lengthy amounts of time in sPvP.

Basically, make a Legendary what it should be: A sign of someone who has done all that the game has to offer.

It should only require participation in the modes you can the legendary to. You can’t with sPvP. So the requirements shouldn’t have it. PvP should get some really nice looking skins to work for as their legendary weapons.

You can use your legendary (skin) in PvP now. And you can also get dungeon tokens via the dungeon reward tracks as well. So some of the requirements can be obtained through sPVP. I don’t see why the few sPvP points of interest aren’t included in map completion. I personally don’t like sPvP but would be quite okay with some token of PvP being required for a legendary since you can use your legendary there now too.

I agree with others that have said that a legendary should be a prestige item showing that you have done something of every single part of the game. I also believe that the legendary should be account bound on acquire and not sellable on the trading post. I have no idea how they would be able to change that without a huge backlash from people who make them only to sell them.

For those of you who are saying a Legendary should be a sign that you’ve done all the game has to offer, can you expand a bit on why? Keep in mind that a process requiring only one game mode wouldn’t necessarily be any less time-consuming in theory (that aspect is all in the design).

(Same question for those who are saying it should only require one game mode – what are the most distinctive reasons you believe it should be that way? If you have already given reasons, I’m not referring to you, so don’t worry.)

I’m seeing a lot of people saying that they feel tradeable Legendaries cheapens/hurts the experience. I know one person suggested a warning and then making them account bound. What are some other ways you would go about fixing the buy/sell issue? Or do you think it’s worth fixing at all?

The reason I think having a legendary should including the major game modes is because I see it as a reward for mastering all aspects of the game. Leaving out the buying and selling aspect (which I never agreed with), I think that the idea of crafting it, and showing that you’ve got the gift of battle and the gift of magic…it’s all the aspects of being a hero.

There are rewards for playing different aspects of the game already. A legendary should transcend those.

Well I just don’t see anything changing on game modes because let’s face it, if a WvW only person wanted to get a legendary without stepping foot into PvE, it would probably take about 4 years to get all the stuff needed, since drops and reward in WvW is dismal. So, since they are “forced” into PvE to get the stuff they need, why shouldn’t PvE’ers be “forced” into other areas? Just sayin…

Vayne.8563:

The reason I think having a legendary should including the major game modes is because I see it as a reward for mastering all aspects of the game. Leaving out the buying and selling aspect (which I never agreed with), I think that the idea of crafting it, and showing that you’ve got the gift of battle and the gift of magic…it’s all the aspects of being a hero.

There are rewards for playing different aspects of the game already. A legendary should transcend those.

This is worded better than I could have done myself. I completely agree.

Yes, legendary should require multiple game modes. The WvW part of it is so simple it’s not even funny. All you had to do is login every weekend and go to WvW and get the needed stuff from the area that you are. If your color didn’t change then wait it out. Map completion in WvW should not be the very last thing you wait to do when going for 100%.

As for the badges of honor and rank 14…. nothing but a big LOL there cause if you run with the zerg in EoTM while smashing your face on your keyboard you will fly by rank 14 and have way more than 500 badges. It literally takes such minor dedication to get this done.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Well I just don’t see anything changing on game modes because let’s face it, if a WvW only person wanted to get a legendary without stepping foot into PvE, it would probably take about 4 years to get all the stuff needed, since drops and reward in WvW is dismal. So, since they are “forced” into PvE to get the stuff they need, why shouldn’t PvE’ers be “forced” into other areas? Just sayin…

Fyi WvW is considered as PvE according to ANet.

Vayne.8563:

The reason I think having a legendary should including the major game modes is because I see it as a reward for mastering all aspects of the game. Leaving out the buying and selling aspect (which I never agreed with), I think that the idea of crafting it, and showing that you’ve got the gift of battle and the gift of magic…it’s all the aspects of being a hero.

There are rewards for playing different aspects of the game already. A legendary should transcend those.

Thanks.

See, I think this looks great on paper, but I’m concerned about how it looks in practice. As we have seen with the current system, you don’t need anything close to mastery in all aspects of the game. You just need (if you do the crafting process yourself) to participate in a few distinct aspects of the game; namely, WvW, Open World, and Dungeons.

What say you to that?

Labjax.2465:

Vayne.8563:

The reason I think having a legendary should including the major game modes is because I see it as a reward for mastering all aspects of the game. Leaving out the buying and selling aspect (which I never agreed with), I think that the idea of crafting it, and showing that you’ve got the gift of battle and the gift of magic…it’s all the aspects of being a hero.

There are rewards for playing different aspects of the game already. A legendary should transcend those.

Thanks.

See, I think this looks great on paper, but I’m concerned about how it looks in practice. As we have seen with the current system, you don’t need anything close to mastery in all aspects of the game. You just need (if you do the crafting process yourself) to participate in a few distinct aspects of the game; namely, WvW, Open World, and Dungeons.

What say you to that?

I wouldn’t have minded higher requiresments in some areas, and less farming in other areas, but it’s very hard to get the balance right for everyone.

But let’s say they raise the requirement to level 100 in WvW and 6000 badges of honor. At that point it just becomes more grinding anyway.

When the legendaries were first designed, the WvW part was harder. It was harder to get badges of honor and getting 500 of them meant playing (which is how I did it). It wasn’t until achievement point chests started handing them out that the value of that changed. And then EotM on top of that makes the requirement negligible, but that’s not how it was first designed…and I did it the hard way.

I think they should require an even time frame into all of the game modes. It would promote diverse play which cuts down on burnout, farming, and elitism. This way no one group of players feels left out (pve, wvw, pvp).

All I see is a bunch of QQ’ing.

“I don’t want to run around EB or a BL and grab POIs and vistas”

“I don’t do dungeons, so I can’t earn tokens”

If you poor lazy folks can’t manage to complete some really simple content in order to work towards a greater goal, then you don’t deserve to ever craft a legendary.

Also, someone mentioned a pvp requirement being added, I think that’s a great idea! Making a legendary should require participation in all areas of the game.

I’ll add in that they should also require people to hit a high fractal level – I think 50 would be great. You would sure see a lot less people wielding legendaries that’s for sure.

Stand The Wall.6987:

I think they should require an even time frame into all of the game modes. It would promote diverse play which cuts down on burnout, farming, and elitism. This way no one group of players feels left out (pve, wvw, pvp).

This I disagree with. Because some games modes are more limited/repetitive than others..and where do you draw the line.

Some people only like to run dungeons. It’s all they like. Should be make people spend 100 hours just doing dungeons?

From polls we see about 30% of players play WvW. But considering that most WvW people probably look at forums from time to time, that’s probably higher than the actual percentage. So why make 70% of the players do something they don’t enjoy. Bad enough for the 30%, but WvW is a much more limited set of activities. It doesn’t bear out countless hours. PvE is more varied.

In truth, there’s no good way to do this that would be fair to everyone.

While i don’t think i’ll need to worry about map completion anytime soon, I really feel the pain of WvW players having to do map completion. I also feel the pain of people in PvP needing to do the same, it’s not on equal ground, not even remotely. They either need to sort it out equally, by adding a PvP requirement (a lengthy one at that) or make it attainable in individual modes, separately. Overall however, i think the latter would be more well-received than the former.

As far as the account bound thing. I’m not sure the technical limitation to this, but if they flipped them to account bound on acquire, then the ones already up for sale would just become account bound at purchase, i would assume.

calyx.9086:

All I see is a bunch of QQ’ing.

“I don’t want to run around EB or a BL and grab POIs and vistas”

“I don’t do dungeons, so I can’t earn tokens”

If you poor lazy folks can’t manage to complete some really simple content in order to work towards a greater goal, then you don’t deserve to ever craft a legendary.

Also, someone mentioned a pvp requirement being added, I think that’s a great idea! Making a legendary should require participation in all areas of the game.

I’ll add in that they should also require people to hit a high fractal level – I think 50 would be great. You would sure see a lot less people wielding legendaries that’s for sure.

Uuuuhhhh… I said I was glad there was NO actual PvP requirement LOL.

I think the legendary has to be at a “place” where it’s still attainable for people. Many people (i.e. most) will never have even the time to do fractals, much less to level 50. As far as I know, they take a lot of time to complete, plus you then need ascended and agony and all that stuff, which is truly just out of reach for most of the player base. If ANet puts the main goal of the game out of reach of, say, 80% of its players, then they will lose players. A lot of them. Legendaries should be tough, not impossible.

I played since headstart and after reaching lvl 80, geting my legendary was my big goal.
The process made me try alot of different content that i normally wouldnt have tried.
So for me, it was a good idea from the devs to implement legendary crafting like this.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

calyx.9086:

All I see is a bunch of QQ’ing.

“I don’t want to run around EB or a BL and grab POIs and vistas”

“I don’t do dungeons, so I can’t earn tokens”

If you poor lazy folks can’t manage to complete some really simple content in order to work towards a greater goal, then you don’t deserve to ever craft a legendary.

Also, someone mentioned a pvp requirement being added, I think that’s a great idea! Making a legendary should require participation in all areas of the game.

I’ll add in that they should also require people to hit a high fractal level – I think 50 would be great. You would sure see a lot less people wielding legendaries that’s for sure.

Uuuuhhhh… I said I was glad there was NO actual PvP requirement LOL.

I think the legendary has to be at a “place” where it’s still attainable for people. Many people (i.e. most) will never have even the time to do fractals, much less to level 50. As far as I know, they take a lot of time to complete, plus you then need ascended and agony and all that stuff, which is truly just out of reach for most of the player base. If ANet puts the main goal of the game out of reach of, say, 80% of its players, then they will lose players. A lot of them. Legendaries should be tough, not impossible.

I wasn’t necessarily responding to you there, someone else mentioned and I was just agreeing with them.

Anyone who has time to run around and do world bosses or stand around in LA has time to do a fractal. It’s about setting priorities. You don’t need ascended armor, rings and trinkets and neck are enough, just load them up with AR infusions.

Maybe 50 is a tad too high, how about lvl 30. Set a goal and work towards it and it’s easily achievable.

Personally I think making a legendary should require at least somewhere in the range of the equivalent of 200-300 hours of gameplay, dedicated to working towards requirements for that legendary, and not just the byproduct (mats/gold) that you earn from playing your preferred content.

I also think they should be gated behind moderately difficult solo content. Can’t complete it? Then you aren’t legendary material and don’t deserve one. Spend your free time practicing and perfecting your game and you will get there eventually.

the focus is heavily on pve

you dont need ANY pvp
you need a bit of WvW (not even much fighting just exploring… and runnign with the blob a bit for the few ranks you need to buy the gift of battle .. the badges can be aquired easily from AP chests)

i think its good so people try out every content…
i mean if they didnt even reach rank 14 in wvw yet … means they didnt even try it out so they cant say they dont like it ….

Vayne.8563:

In truth, there’s no good way to do this that would be fair to everyone.

I’m inclined to agree that by including multiple game modes, there is no fair way to do it. Which is another reason why I wonder if multiple paths is not a better idea.

A system where you can “be legendary” within your favorite game type.

Labjax.2465:

What is your position? Let me know!

My position is this: I’d rip the current legendary system out of the game by the roots and burn it in a fire, and then I’d make it so that when you successfully reach the end of the Personal Story (or attain some equivalent rank or standing or whatever in WvW or SPvP), you would be given a choice between the two weapons your character used most (yay metrics) on his or her way to one (and only one, your choice) of those milestones, and that weapon would be that character’s one and only Legendary weapon – legendary because the character had attained legendary status by virtue of his or her deeds, not because the player grinded (ground?) for it or bought it. You choose the stats, and the weapon is soulbound to that character.

No grind, no gold, no nonsense.

Personally all i would change about Legendary weapons would be make them Account bound on craft.
After making 10 legendary’s and currently working on 11 and 12 ( Number 12 will be a in guild prize) Honestly all it takes is a few hours a day of dedication.

For the past year i had been apart of a hard core wvw guild and the hardest thing for me was the open world / PVE map completion as it took so much time and alienated me from my guild but i sucked it up and did it because i had a goal. And now i’m doing it again for the 6th time.

I understand that people are off put by completing the WvW maps but honestly it is only 4 little maps compered to 25 pve maps and don’t stress if you get killed it’s only a game.

On a side note i have in game friends that only play sPvP who would love a legendary just imagine how daunting the whole process is for sPvPers. And be grateful that sPvP is not a requirement to craft a legendary.

I believe the “correct” answer would have been, "No!’ back at launch. Any longevity gained by “forcing” people into PvE or WvW was more than balanced by longevity lost because the only long term goal in the game was locked away from people who just really disliked either mode and said, “To kitten with this.”

Unfortunately, that ship has sailed. Changing horses now would likely cause an uproar among all those who went through the process. So, now, the answer is, “Yes.”

IMO no, ideally it should be possible to get in any game mode. If you like PvE get it through that, or through WvW or through sPvP. And of course it should be equally hard to get in which ever game mode you prefer playing.

I’ve been playing for more than 3k hours and I have yet to reach rank 100 in WvW. If there were higher requirements for gift of battle I’d just farm the gold to buy the finished product off the TP to be honest. IMO no one should be forced into a game mode they dislike.

From a design perspective, yes, Legendaries should require doing a bunch of various in-game activities, although this doesn’t necessarily mean that PvE/PvP should be included in that. I like the current system of Legendaries requiring a whole bunch of different components acquired from various parts of the game, but there should also be freedom for players to acquire those components by a variety of ways. (As an example, Badges of Honor for the Gift of Battle can be acquired through WvW or just through AP chests.)

And of course, if you have the cash, you can just buy it up front. I’ve never believed in cosmetics being a prestige item, so if a player wants to give ANet a whole bunch of money to look pretty, why not?