Yes, they should. In GW1 they were incredibly easy to obtain and the only thing you had to work hard to obtain was cool skins. By making max stat gear available early on, the game allows players to progress as players instead of as characters. Character progression should be about playing well, not being a few points better.
Yes, I see no reason for it to be exceedingly difficult to obtain. A lot of people do not like grinding mindlessly to aquire gear and for the one’s who do enjoy such things (or just working hard for a goal) there are legendaries and skins for them to go after. Increasing the difficulty in getting your basic exotics, would not increase player retention imo, which is already an issue depending upon who you ask. I suppose I should point out that I do not currently feel exotics are difficult to obtain. I think there is a fairly nice balance atm, in that regard.
Please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion.
Let’s not bicker and argue over who killed who.
Lilcoffeebean~Yak’s Bend~Perfect Dark [PD]
Yes they should, number 1 thing I loved about Guild Wars and what was Guild Wars 2…no gear grind, no worrying about “If” I’m going to get that drop or not…now it’s turned into do you have the latest gear, do you have max stats. Sorry…this isn’t the game I bought and played for months through the beta’s and up to this patch…This isn’t the game at all..
I feel that the idea that it’s easy to obtain is a big of a red herring. To quote a post I made in the gigantic thread:
Exotic items were/are “easy to obtain” if, and only if, you:
1) Refuse to play more than one character.
2) Refuse to play more than one build on each character.
3) Refuse to use anything other than the cheapest (profession-crafted) Exotics in the game.
For players who have a lot of time to play the game and still have pent-up desire for advancement, there are release valves built into the game’s design everywhere. It’s like that old joke about a slowly drowning man, only in this case the punchline is replaced with “Yeah, I guess you’re right. I’ll fix that for you.”
For the rest of us, it is not easy to outfit yourself with the Exotics you need. I play four characters at level 80, and two of them have two completely separate builds that require two completely separate sets of gear. I also like to use moderately nice looking gear, instead of awful looking Pearl weapons. That means it costs at least200g to 250g to be outfitted in Exotic equipment. That is one hell of a grind to max out, with “easy to get” Exotics.
It will be impossible for me to max out with Ascended equipment, unless I stop playing everything except one build, on one character. Ascended equipment eliminates 83% of the game for me, in one fell swoop.
Catering to players who refuse to play the game except in one specific way, forever, should not be a priority.
There are plenty of ways to reward players other than better gear.
Exotics were fine, in a middle ground between not too easy (so that you’d still feel some sense of accomplishment when getting your full set) and not too hard (so that even the most casual players had a chance to get them).
GW2 should focus on all these other ways (i.e. horizontal progression). Some are already in-game (skins, title, achievement, etc), and a lot more have been suggested during the last few days. I’ve actually seen such good ideas that, if ArenaNet decides to rollback the recent changes and implement these ideas, it might be the best thing to happen to the game (for instance, on top of my head, unique dyes with special effect/gradient).
Absolutely. The only reason to make it difficult to obtain is that you’re lazy and can’t design content that people want to play without carrots.
If the content is good, people will play it, and Guild Wars used to be proof of that.
I disagree with lazy. There is plenty of content in GW2 that does not reward carrot-seekers. The issue is that it is spread throughout the game, and across multiple servers. People are doing this content, you just don’t always see large concentrations like you do for one-time events or dungeons, since everyone looking for a dungeon party goes to the same place.
Yes. That was my favorite feature of GW1. It was what made that game so unique and special. ANYONE had access to the best gear with minimal effort. It was skills that separated the players. Now, in PvE, it is just another game, with just another gear treadmill. I am so disappointed.
If you play a game for a long time, and don’t increase your skill in that time, why should you be given a handicap against players that simply haven’t played as long as you, or who haven’t played the specific, oftentimes considered boring, grindy content that you did?
Constantly being bumped down to unoptimal stats as punishment for not grinding is not how many people like to play a game. Also, it kills variety in builds and play styles, since that variety would become incredibly expensive to pay off the gear treadmill upkeep… as every extra armour/weapon set will need to be upgraded every time the treadmill pushes you back.
Yes, as was the original plan that drew so many to this game. As was implemented in GW1 that so many players loved. No one should have to grind content, be forced into doing repetitive, narrowly-focused things, just to get their character’s base statistical effectiveness on par with everyone else.
Gear is part of leveling. You have not reached max level until you have attained max gear. What does leveling do? It adds stats. What does gear do? It adds stats. Just as people would throw a kittenfest if Anet decided to increase the level cap to 85, but leveling past 80 will only be doable in Fractals of the Mists, and experience will be rewarded on a random basis that gets a little better every time you advance, but won’t really kick in until past level 10, oh by the way you have to be at least 82 to play level 10 and up; so also are players pissed off that that’s essentially what they’ve done with gear. I should not have to grind and grind and grind and grind and grind and grind and grind ad nauseum just to FINISH my character statistically. That’s a forced elongation of the game through unappealing and unenjoyable content. I was perfectly happy with my exotic gear, working slowly towards my cosmetic goals, and enjoying all aspects of the game equally while not being forced into any one in particular. Now? Not at all.
Yes it should. People are now getting turned down from group for not having full exotic gear.
This is the sort of mentality that is killing online gaming. Getting full exotics is about as difficult as installing GW2. If getting a full set actually required time and dedication, that would be a different story. Even then I wouldn’t see it as a problem.
Easy isn’t the word I would use for max stat gear availability. Max stat gear should be available by several methods, as it the current case with exotics. As long as max stat gear is available via event rewards, crafting, random drops, and/or the TP, I have no problem with it taking some effort to obtain. What I would object to is max stat gear only being available via one route, like dungeon running, or cash.
Absolutely. The only reason to make it difficult to obtain is that you’re lazy and can’t design content that people want to play without carrots.
If the content is good, people will play it, and Guild Wars used to be proof of that.
I disagree with lazy. There is plenty of content in GW2 that does not reward carrot-seekers. The issue is that it is spread throughout the game, and across multiple servers. People are doing this content, you just don’t always see large concentrations like you do for one-time events or dungeons, since everyone looking for a dungeon party goes to the same place.
In the old dungeons, you’re right. My comment was purely in the direction of the ‘ascended tier’, which aims more at lazy. Even worse is i would have played the heck out of fractals had they not shoehorned in a crap stat bump.
Skif F Galco (War) | Bas Flaith (Thf) | Rawr Doomshot (Rng) | Cheshire Glamourclaw (Mes)
Yes, I don’t want to spend all my time grinding for stats rather than doing what I actually feel like doing at the time and it’s better to have everyone on even footing gear wise. I especially don’t want to be grinding when when I have multiple characters and multiple builds on those characters (which is what I thought A-net was suppose to be encouraging with their there multiple path personal story and more than one zone to level). Alternatively they could make a difficult challenge which rewards you with max stat gear so it’s not “easy” but at least you only have to do it once. I do actauly like the dungeons but I don’t want to be repeating them over and over again for gear.
Grinding is not difficult; it’s just boring and takes a long time. I’m fine with doing it for titles and look because then I can do it at my own pace when i want to and it doesn’t effect anything else.
Easily obtained max-stat gear:
-Encourages playing different professions and different builds within a profession
-Prevents gear checks/gating on content
-Prevents old content from being obsoleted when new gear comes out
-Prevents elitism in grouping (e.g. must have full exotics)
-Keeps game accessible for new players
-Keeps game accessible for players with limited time to devote to gaming
GW1 had plenty of endgame, none of which revolved around getting higher stat gear. Besides a well-developed PvP system, there was an abundant amount of PvE endgame:
-Elite dungeons
-Vanquishing and cartographer
-Campaign missions, which included time and other bonus conditions to challenge players
-Acquiring armor and weapon skins for cosmetic value
-Grinding for titles. This was fine, because titles didn’t actually increase your stats (with the exception of PvE skills linked to faction reputation…an unfortunate deviation from the tenets of GW1)
What I appreciate is that the stats don’t matter much in this game at all. One of my 80s’ magic find set has 3 pieces of rare in it. I hardly notice that from his full performance (not mf) exotic.
Sure, I like max stat gear. Not that it makes me powerful or anything.
NO! Gear should be insanely hard to get! Can’t you see people, if you have lives and jobs you’re doing it wrong, you need to be in fractals 24/7 to get the best infusion for the PRIVILIDGE of farming fractals and more all the future content! Those of you that support us in WvW are doing it wrong! Those of you that like to gather herbs are doing it wrong! It’s all about the fuschia man, and there’s nothing else to it. Now get to fractals for the next 22 hours until your finger bleed with boredom or L2P nub!
“In the old dungeons, you’re right. My comment was purely in the direction of the ‘ascended tier’, which aims more at lazy. Even worse is i would have played the heck out of fractals had they not shoehorned in a crap stat bump.”
I agree, I probably wouldn’t have stopped playing and been doing fractals a lot if ascended wasn’t around. All I’d have asked if the ability to bump allies up to your max difficulty, but now I’d consider that to be a hand-off type fix.
Absolutely. The only reason to make it difficult to obtain is that you’re lazy and can’t design content that people want to play without carrots.
If the content is good, people will play it, and Guild Wars used to be proof of that.
I disagree with lazy. There is plenty of content in GW2 that does not reward carrot-seekers. The issue is that it is spread throughout the game, and across multiple servers. People are doing this content, you just don’t always see large concentrations like you do for one-time events or dungeons, since everyone looking for a dungeon party goes to the same place.
In the old dungeons, you’re right. My comment was purely in the direction of the ‘ascended tier’, which aims more at lazy. Even worse is i would have played the heck out of fractals had they not shoehorned in a crap stat bump.
Carrot-on-stick has always been the sub-retention formula favored by MMO designers, as it’s the only way to get the locusts to repeat anything, and programmers cannot program fast enough no matter how industrious they are. No sub here, but there is something going on. I currently favor the tinfoil-hat theory of interference from Nexon over them being lazy.
I started a thread in the dungeons forum asking if people would play FotM without Ascended Gear. With 14 responses, yes over no by a good margin. Of course, the locusts could all be in the dungeon…
Yes. So far as PVE goes, stats/progression is just an illusion, anyway, I’d prefer it over and done with ASAP, so I could focus on actually playing. Naturally, when it comes PVP, a stat imbalance is horrible.
Yes in general. But especially in any game where you can buy in game currency with real money and exchange it for some or all of the things needed to create the best gear in the game.
“…we don’t expect you to be forced into dungeons at endgame.”
When i purchased this game i was under the impression that i was getting a pvp based game where stats on my gear was never going to be the focus of play.
if i thought i was purchasing another pve treadmill then i would say no otherwise whats the point, however that is not how this game was sold to me.
My dream MMO is one which lets me instantly create any number of max-level, max gear toons at the click of a button so I can actually focus on the fun part of the experience.
Easy isn’t the word I would use for max stat gear availability. Max stat gear should be available by several methods, as it the current case with exotics. As long as max stat gear is available via event rewards, crafting, random drops, and/or the TP, I have no problem with it taking some effort to obtain. What I would object to is max stat gear only being available via one route, like dungeon running, or cash.
This is what I agree with. Multiple routes to get them is perfect, which is what Exotics are.
This is what I agree with. Multiple routes to get them is perfect, which is what Exotics are.
I agree, too. No one would’ve really batted an eye at ascended if it was released available the way exotics are. Put in all the uber raid gear you want, as long as the rest of us can get it from crafting/events/PvP, too.
Shouldn’t that be the definition of pleasing everyone? I’ve never understood that about MMORPGs: if one is to take the (cynical and erroneous) view that people only play for more shinies… how exactly is restricting access to them supposed to keep everyone playing?
People would be more willing to chase the carrot if they didn’t have to jump through hoops.
No, it should take some time to earn or acquire. Love the game but the guys I started playing GW2 left when they hit 80. They bought their exotics when they were lvl 60ish, and bought skins before lvl 10 so once they hit 80 they didn’t feel the desire to play any further. We all bought the game knowing what the end game consisted of so it’s not like any of them were surprised. They enjoyed their trip to lvl 80 and it was back to LoL for them.
I stayed because I enjoy exploration and I’m a crazy altaholic. But my friends like to work for gear that sets them apart (stat wise) and in some cases the harder to earn or more rare the item the better. I’m personally somewhere in between. I don’t mind gear grind at all, like farming for low drop rate armor sets or weapons, would love to even see some 1 of a kind drops in the game, but also like how accessible the various features of the game are to new players.
i need it 3 weeks to get full exotic set and weapon from start whit 3h per day play sometimes 4.5 on weekends its extreamly easy ikittennow what u doing and im new to gw 2 its SUPER easy trust me
Easy isn’t the word I would use for max stat gear availability.
Agreed. A better word would be ‘quick’. Grinding doesn’t make something hard to acquire, it just makes it take ages. I wish the idea that making players repeat something they did perfectly the first time makes it harder would just die. The only thing it increases is boredom.
As it stands, some exotic stats were a bit to slow to acquire for my tastes. Not enough to complain about, but they could have been better. Ascended gear is much worse.
I think no. That said, there should be gear that is certainly adequate for all content that is easy to get, which is currently true. Gearing yourself up in exotics is a fairly short task. With exotics you’re geared to do all the content in the game, heck I’ve been running FotM up to level 13 in all rare armor.
I like having a long term goal like ascended gear. That said, I understand the complaints about it in WvW and think there needs to be a challenging but reasonable means of acquiring it through WvW.
Easy isn’t the word I would use for max stat gear availability. Max stat gear should be available by several methods, as it the current case with exotics. As long as max stat gear is available via event rewards, crafting, random drops, and/or the TP, I have no problem with it taking some effort to obtain. What I would object to is max stat gear only being available via one route, like dungeon running, or cash.
I agree with this. It should take some effort to obtain, but i want to be able to choose how i put in that effort.
It is just a question to the public. I am not going to take sides here.
I am interested in your opinions.
define easy?
for me easy is repeat dungeon x amount of times and you get it. theres nothing difficult about doing the same dungeon 50 times , its just borrrinnng .
while killing a hard mob solo or having to craft something with very rare mats can be called difficult.
easy and difficult are subjective terms.
only “hardcore” will whine about difficult simply meaning they have to devote their lifes to repetative mundane tasks. Where to me the only difficulty i have with that is finding the will to persist rather than go play another game out of pure boredom.
if everyone have the same gear, everyone is equal and noone will complain! simple point here, if you cant win without a unfair advantage only those will leave
Should? There should be games where max gear is very difficult to obtain and which have an endless, ever-increasing power-creep for those that want to play such games.
There should also be games where max gear is relatively easy to get and there is no power creep for those that want to play such games.
One MMOG cannot serve both sets of customers. GW2 was supposed to serve the latter. There are literally scores of MMOGs that serve the former.
When i purchased this game i was under the impression that i was getting a pvp based game where stats on my gear was never going to be the focus of play.
if i thought i was purchasing another pve treadmill then i would say no otherwise whats the point, however that is not how this game was sold to me.
PvP sets are still as they ever were. There is a big focus on build, but all the gear and respecs are free.
