Guild Wars 2

Berylex, have you ever killed Kol Skullcrusher?

it will probably be added down the line

in GW1 places like The Deep and Urgoz’s Warren were built to fit in more players than the normal party size.

though i dont expect they will ever go higher than something like 8 players.

Gw2 raids are really the big group events in some of the areas, I wouldn’t mind seeing more of them implemented as I like the idea of open world style raids. As for wow style raids, no don’t really want Anet wasting time on that when they can improve on what is already there. I left wow after burning out on there type of content and actually prefer that gw2 is more accessible.

Yeah I would think that at some point they would add some areas that might be for a slightly bigger group than the dungeons. Probably not right away though since a lot of people are still runing dungeons for gear and such.

Moonthrower.1406:

Berylex, have you ever killed Kol Skullcrusher?

Yes I have and I see what you mean

Raids are not needed, there are already several bosses and event chains I can think of that require more than 5 players.
The difference is that you are not locked into a set path and have someone telling you what to do all the time.
Spontaneous group co-operation is one of the things I enjoy most about this game

Btw someone up thread mentioned the Nageling giant- he has nothing on Koll

I really love the chain events, just hate when a good one is up, but no one around to help you get it done.
I think raids would be ok.

Moonthrower.1406:

Berylex, have you ever killed Kol Skullcrusher?

what about him? He is totally easy and just has tons of health. I didnt go downed or died a single time fighting him so far. And that with melee guardian.

I have a problem with raids, and I don’t think it would fit.

5 mans are the perfect combination of challenge being conquered by teamwork. The problem with “raids” designed for 15+ people is that these encounters were based around one solid, always true, fact. Tank/Healer

One, two, maybe three tanks would hold the attention of the giant instanced dragon, while two or three other healers would heal them. This is not true in this game.

Aristio.2784:

I have a problem with raids, and I don’t think it would fit.

5 mans are the perfect combination of challenge being conquered by teamwork. The problem with “raids” designed for 15+ people is that these encounters were based around one solid, always true, fact. Tank/Healer

One, two, maybe three tanks would hold the attention of the giant instanced dragon, while two or three other healers would heal them. This is not true in this game.

I do agree with you on that point but disagree overall.
I’ve been giving raids / dungeons and content a LOT of thought over the past few weeks.

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I think you’d want to keep the numbers down, 8 or 10 people seems right. (25 man would seems a lot to zergy for co-ordinated mechanics imo)

Whereas fighting a single dragon with 3 tanks and 3 healers and DPS isn’t going to work you would have to adapt the raids to fit guild wars 2 system.

Some simple examples:

Boss 1:
Two platforms each with a Boss on. The raid splits into 2 teams of … 5 say and targets a boss each.
The players get a large damaging debuff from their boss which makes them have to switch bosses every now to remove it.

Boss 2:
A single large chained up dragon fights a group of 10 players.
Occasionally the dragon would summon minions in the corners of the room which extend the chains, giving the dragon his full strength.
Players must split apart and defeat the minions in each corner and activate the Interactive item to pull the chains back up.

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It’s basically about co-ordination between a large group of players.
I think they could work well if designed well.

They’d have to keep the bosses from being a complete uncontrollable mess.
The examples I gave would be stationary bosses.

As long as raids don’t lead to this game having gear progression I would welcome them.

all of orr should be instanced for a group of 15, where you have to clear all the war important quest chains and take down each temple and then add an epic battle at the end. This would make an nice raid

GW2 has a dozen or more of raids scattered all over the world.
They still need tweaking (they should be much harder), but they are there if you want.

@Kopipoki

Can I ask why you’re against Gear progression.
I am very interested to know your point of view on the matter please.
Cheers.

BlackToof.8710:

@Kopipoki

Can I ask why you’re against Gear progression.
I am very interested to know your point of view on the matter please.
Cheers.

Im personally against gear progression because A) it trivialises older content it impacts on PvP and C) its a illusion of progression since all it does is inflat content stat levels of both gear and enemies. These changes are even technically actual power story wise. Look at WoW. Is a regular snapping turtle in the jade forest so strong that it can solo a camp of alliance war veterans in Northrend?

The only real value I see in gear progression is if you want to faceroll old content. This is something personally, I dont like.

GW1 had a feeling of progression to me without stat inflation. Hopefully they can capture that in GW2.

To be honest… it would be kind-of cool to see a 10 man dungeon of two teams progressing through dungeons and helping each other by flipping switches etc to open the way for the other team etc. I could see that be interesting especially with the system of combat.

Meta Events, or Group Events are really the equivelent of ‘Raids’. They are large scale battles against massive creatures, or just really powerful ones, usually 20 or more people will flock to these events, because they are mainly just AWESOME!

But a more organised ‘raiding’ system would be quite cool

BlackToof.8710:

@Kopipoki

Can I ask why you’re against Gear progression.
I am very interested to know your point of view on the matter please.
Cheers.

I think Gear progression is a not the right way to keep people interested in a game. the game should be played because its enjoyable and fun, not because someone is afraid they are going to fall behind and not be able to participate in events. Its rather silly to me to have to put in the effort in order to get a piece of gear only for it to be rendered useless in a few months time.

It saddens me that people actually want something akin to gear progression, to me it seems like a really really lazy way for devs to prolong a game. As raids progress they only give the illusion of getting harder by requiring better gear.

Also a lvl 80 in full exotic gear is already pretty strong compared to someone that was brought up to par in WvW. I would hate for the discrepancy to get any larger as its already very noticeable.

Don’t even get me started about sPVP. The other day I read a post from someone that wanted gear progression in spvp, the very thought of that makes me cringe. Success should not be dependent on how good your gear is but on your actual ability to play your class.

@AndrewWaltfeld

See, this is what I can see happening inside a “raid.” Does anyone remember in GW1 Prophecies that one mission that required two teams to meet in the middle? I would stand behind that, and at the end have a 10 man boss that requires a lot of coordination.

I’m against gear progression as well. I was promised zero gear progression past a certain point and that’s my main draw to GW2. If I have exotics at level 80, I do not want to grind a raid to get a set of another exotics that are statistically better.

@ Lutinz + @ Kopipoki

Thanks for your feedback on that matter, It’s very useful to me.
I’ve been weighing things and I believe I am from the other camp.
I will be arguing FOR gear progression in the next week with a serious video on the matter.

I will be delving into it very deeply and taking all points into consideration.
I look forward to your opinions on my solutions.
I know it will cause some knee jerk backlash but I’m hoping people will take the time to take the points into account.

Cheers

No. Thanks for playing.

I would rather see instanced content go away all together and MMOs become, well MMOs. Though popular, raiding is no different than having a LAN-based RPG with 10-25 of your close friends. The only massive activity you do together in instanced raid focused games is go into town to show off your new shinies. Guild Wars 2 dynamic events are a good vehicle for large-scale, challenging content, that the whole server can participate in, and not just those guild that get 20 or so people together for an evening. I don’t think the challenge is there yet, but do not think this an insurmountable task. one that has been discussed in severla topics already:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/events/Do-you-think-events-should-increase-in-difficulty/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/events/We-need-Outward-Scaling-not-just-Upward/page/3#post278653

No but they are greatly needed. For a game that wants team support, raiding is the ultimate teamwork features.

Yes, because why not its like pvp if you dont like it dont do it

I’m for anything that adds more socialization and structure to fights in the game. Spontaneous group co-operation where nobody talks or coordinates anything isn’t really that fun to me. I might as well be playing a single player game with a bunch of glorified NPCs helping me.

Maybe it would make guilds more useful than just being dungeon lfg channels for those who aren’t fed up with the difficulty or the DR system or the bugs.

I don’t want raids. More PVE content sure. Not anything right out of WoW. That game epitomized poor design to me and its popularity was a given far before it ever met any kind of quality standard.

I have a hard time conceptualizing a raid without the holy trinity. At least, a raid that requires coordination and the proper use of cooldowns / abilities to survive the mechanics.

I think raids should have to be modified to 8-12 people tops for starters> But aggro mechanics could be put in like a dmg=aggro meter on boss or boss randomly lock on for random amount of time.

Really surprised we kill Zhaitan in some dungeon with 4 other people, but it takes dozens working together outside to kill lieutenants….

GW2 will require some type of raid format greater then 5+ players. This is because GW2 drew a big crowd of PvE’ers. You have these PVX guilds forming but unfortunately you do not need a guild for PVE at the current time. World events do not require much coordination and definitely have no need for guild coordination. Your guild may receive bonus IP for doing it together but you receive alot more IP doing other things.

To keep PVE’ers and PVE guilds alive on this game, GW2 will have to implement some sort of raid format requiring 5+ players and coordination for a kill. You don’t need a tank and healer format because this game was made similar to “Monster Hunter.” Everyone is self sufficient but at the same time you can work together to defeat a target. Setting traps, blinding, slowing, taking out adds and so forth. Do not limit your mindset to just tank and aggro tables. GW2 has given itself an open window to work with.

For the sake of specifically PVE guilds, you need a raid or something that requires a guild coordination kill that requires more then 5+ people otherwise it will still be pointless to have a PVE guild of 5 people. All dungeons atm are puggable. Slow but doable.

Rather than having a gear grind being the motivation for a guild to do raids, which I agree is a bad idea for the audience this game is aimed at, perhaps a more direct motivation would be high Influence rewards for the guild. Some thought would be needed by the developers to find ways that guild Influence Points would be a desirable commodity, but one possibility might be to allow it to exchange for certain components needed for things like Legendary weapon skins, PvP seige equipment, etc. That way those things could still be gotten solo, but a guild that runs “raids” would get an alternate path.

Other possibilities are allowing for construction some kind of Guild Hall instance which members could go into for roleplay. That opens up a lot of other rewards which could be offered for Influence, from cosmetic for decorating features to additional storage, perhaps keyed to individual members, and so on. That would be typical of what the developers have tried to do in other reward systems of the game, you don’t NEED a Hall to succeed in PvE or PvP, but a well designed one could be nice to show off and provides some flexibility for guild members. This would obviously be a more major design effort to add into the game, though perhaps easier if NCSoft swipes the Superbase ideas from the City of Heroes game they are already shutting down. . .

Aristio.2784:

@AndrewWaltfeld

See, this is what I can see happening inside a “raid.” Does anyone remember in GW1 Prophecies that one mission that required two teams to meet in the middle? I would stand behind that, and at the end have a 10 man boss that requires a lot of coordination.

I’m against gear progression as well. I was promised zero gear progression past a certain point and that’s my main draw to GW2. If I have exotics at level 80, I do not want to grind a raid to get a set of another exotics that are statistically better.

agreed. I hate gear grind as well. I can see them doing interesting things with an 10 man party mechanic but to be honest that would require additional coding and development time. Even if they start now, I wouldn’t expect to see anything for at least half a year.

guild wars 2 should have raids yes

sure, why not, a raid is nothing more than a dungeon with an unusal party size. We have dungeons already (which I would consider as something like raids in the context of GW2). The more content, the better, BUT no rewards you cannot get by other styles of play. And I fear it would not satisfy many people who demand raids, as they are usually heavily relying on the traditional mmorpg roles, so I suspect “raid” is also a rephrased craving for trinity roles to some extent. But if those pitfalls are avoided, well, why not.

i’m ok with it i guess, as long as it doesn’t become the focus of the content and the game.

if i wanted that i’d play wow.

as i’m not playing that anymore i think i’d quite like guild vs guild.

bosses get boring very quickly sorry to burst most peoples bubbles about raiding being fun, but sindragosa was dire after the second time the lich king followed the same pattern regardless as did all bosses.

the sheer lack of difference from one weeks raiding to the next made it extremely boring and mind numbing.

but as long as it doesn’t get my money or become important to the game i’m all for it.