you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
(edited by Ohoni.6057)
I’ve noticed something as my guild has been upgrading the guild hall, the second-tier upgraded buildings are worse than the first tier.
Hear me out. The second ones do look a lot cooler (on gilded, at least), but they are actually less functional than the first tier. I mean, take the tavern, for example. At the first tier, it’s a tent, placed some distance from the center of the map where you spawn in. When you upgrade it, it turns into a very fancy bar, which is placed about 50ft further back and up a flight of stairs. Getting to the vendors inside takes about 5-10s longer, not a huge deal, but kind of annoying every time.
Now of course there are real benefits to upgrading, so everyone should do it that can, and it would be a hassle for them to do anything to fix this after the fact, but I think it’s worth keeping in mind for future guild halls (which everyone assumes are in the works), and if additional buildings are added to the current maps, make sure to design with player convenience in mind.
Make it quick and easy to move from one building to another, maybe add in more updrafts, bouncing mushrooms, and Leylines to increase travel speed within the hall. And definitely, place the T2 structure first, make sure it’s very conveniently located, and then place the T1 tent, and make it less convenient. For example, if you were going to redesign the Gilded Hollow tavern, put the final tavern where the tent was, perhaps even closer, given that it has stairs, and then put the tent where the current tavern is, as far against the edge as possible, and perhaps behind the rubble pile model, so that players have to jog around that mess to reach it. That way, when people upgrade, the reaction is “whoa, so much more convenient!”
(edited by Ohoni.6057)
I don’t find this to be a design fail whatsoever. I have that exact guild hall and love the second tier tavern.
The hall’s are huge. As we upgrade, we have the freedom of decorating and customizing some things as we wish. If that little distance, which is hardly noticeable if at all, bothers you, than you have to be frustrated by the whole design.
I don’t find this to be a design fail whatsoever. I have that exact guild hall and love the second tier tavern.
Like I said, the problem isn’t with the visuals, it really does look great, the problem is with the functionality. Like if you just broke the map down into flat white boxes, the T1 buildings would be more convenient than the T2 ones, when it should be the other way around, and there’s no particular reason why it couldn’t be.
The hall’s are huge. As we upgrade, we have the freedom of decorating and customizing some things as we wish. If that little distance, which is hardly noticeable if at all, bothers you, than you have to be frustrated by the whole design.
A little bit, really. Same issues Lion’s Arch has, general inconvenience. I like that the overall maps are huge, but getting to the things you want to get to should be snap-fast.
I agree with everything Ohoni has said here
I don’t find this to be a design fail whatsoever. I have that exact guild hall and love the second tier tavern.
The hall’s are huge. As we upgrade, we have the freedom of decorating and customizing some things as we wish. If that little distance, which is hardly noticeable if at all, bothers you, than you have to be frustrated by the whole design.
But if you find the guild hall not convenient, how often will you go there? How often will guild members want to just hang out there?
I get that ANet doesn’t want guild members to live in guild halls all of the time, but they do need to strike a balance between keeping a push for players to not spend all their time in guild halls and making guild halls convenient places for guilds to hang out and have meetings and what not.
Since I haven’t been playing much since HoT launched (I’m easily distracted by various shinies), I haven’t really been to an upgraded guild hall so I can’t comment on whether the distance is too inconvenient or not.
I don’t know what GH layout looks like, but LP at least seems to have been designed by someone that didn’t give one fig about convenience when placing guild structures. Some structures are placed near waypoints, some are placed as far away from them as possible. On the other hand one waypoint seems to be placed in completely random spot, with absolutely nothing of use near. And of course there are those updrafts, arbitrarily disabled for no discernable reason.
I’d really want to see some explanations behind those design choices.
Guild hall for most : a place to enter, do stuff fast and gtho of there because it’s usually not ‘dressed up’ thanks to the rediculous cost of scribing.
For those who already have scribing high : gratz, you just invested in the most useless craft ever in a game.
I don’t think that many (less then 1%) care about the looks of the guildhall. We gather there before a Gmission and leave as soon as we’re done. it’s def. not a place to “hangout”.
And i agree about the non-functionality placement. Weird design choices. We’re used to that by now.
Dev 1: "Hey George, they want to make moving around the hall more ‘convenient’ "
Dev 2: “Like, make them smaller? Ugh”
Dev 1: “Nah they are talking about like bounce pads, jump mushroom, and gliding options”
Dev 2: “Oh, well, that might make sense..”
Dev 3: “We can build those options in as additional upgrades!”
Dev 2: “What kind of material requirements should we have to build them?”
Players: collective groan
Just you wait…
Now of course there are real benefits to upgrading,
what would those be aside from fancier looking buildings or unlocking some additional upgrades?
I don’t know what GH layout looks like, but LP at least seems to have been designed by someone that didn’t give one fig about convenience when placing guild structures. Some structures are placed near waypoints, some are placed as far away from them as possible. On the other hand one waypoint seems to be placed in completely random spot, with absolutely nothing of use near. And of course there are those updrafts, arbitrarily disabled for no discernable reason.
I’d really want to see some explanations behind those design choices.
So … the same person who designed the new LA? :P
Oh how many times I wish when we port to the GH it’s right next to the tavern!
Sure, locations could be a bit more convenient, I agree.
But as for the new LA, while I do prefer the old LA appearance, you have to admit the new LA is more convenient re: WP placements and such. There’s even jumping pads from banks to BLTP – you don’t have to run there at all!
There’s even jumping pads from banks to BLTP – you don’t have to run there at all!
NOW there are. Those are a relatively recent addition.
what would those be aside from fancier looking buildings or unlocking some additional upgrades?
Aside from those? Not much, but those are pretty decent things to unlock for at least most of the structures. I do think that if you use the things that the structure does (and also to increase the level of the guild, allowing even further unlocks), it is still worth upgrading them, I just wish that it made them more convenient to access those features, rather than less.
So … the same person who designed the new LA? :P
And the thing is, I get LA. At least a little. LA is a map designed to have 100+ people in it at all times, and there is a valid reason for them to want to keep players spread out a bit across the map, so separating the forge from the crafting stations, while inconvenient, at least makes sense. There is no need for this in Guild Halls, however, where even a large guild will likely only see a handful of members wandering around at any given time, aside from when they meet up for group events, at which point they would all be in the same place anyway.
I think that from a purely functional perspective, the ideal hall design would be to have the “log in” area as a big empty space with nothing going on there, so that people can flood the map in an area with the least going on, and to then have a “shopping mall” area that has all the functional features in a tight, convenient grouping, with fast travel options between the two areas. Then have the “flavor” district, where nothing functional happens but there’s lots of jumping and cool nooks that you can decorate or whatever. Of course the artistic design is important too, I definitely want the place to look cool, but form should coincide with function.
There’s even jumping pads from banks to BLTP – you don’t have to run there at all!
Which they added after the fact, but yeah, that’s a nice feature, and I wish the GH had more like that. What if the Gilded hall had a bouncy shroom that would launch you from the central area to the Tavern? Or even a Leyline that flowed from the central area to the Tavern, dropping you through the roof?
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