Guild Wars 2

Sinister trinkets such as Wynne’s Locket are not available to players who don’t have Season 2 of the Living Story unlocked. This means they must buy Season 2 (with gems) for the gear. Now players can certainly buy gems with gold, but one wonders:

Will this also be a feature of HoT?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Will this also be a feature of HoT?

What? Gear you can only have if you buy the content? What do you think?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Sinister trinkets such as Wynne’s Locket are not available to players who don’t have Season 2 of the Living Story unlocked. This means they must buy Season 2 (with gems) for the gear. Now players can certainly buy gems with gold, but one wonders:

Will this also be a feature of HoT?

What, exactly, are you referring to by “feature”? Firstly, this is not P2W. P2W explicitly gives players that spend real money an unfair advantage with stats or gear that is unobtainable to the players that don’t spend extra. The Sinister stat combo is not inherently more effective than other combos. Secondly, LWS2 was free as it was being released. It now needs to be unlocked for not a whole lot. For them not charging a monthly fee, toss some money at them to support them if you wish, or don’t if you do not. Not having a single Sinister stat combo trinket will not, in the slightest, make or break your character.

People frequently forget that all the content that “must” now be bought used to be available for free, and continues to be free, if you logged in just once for every episode.
That is not “P2W”, it is Anet giving you an option to get access to content you missed after it has been taken “out” of the game. Very few, if any, other MMOs give you this chance.

And of course HoT content and features will be tied to you buying the expansion. Its expansion specific content, anyway. Might be that some stuff will be accessible for all somehow (PvP and WvW maps will be), but that’s not even a must. One also had no access to the Nightfall and Factions campaigns in GW1 if one did not buy them. I remember there being a lot less complaining back then.

If all the stuff from HoT would be available for free for “those who didn’t buy the expansion”, why would anyone ever pay for it?

I don’t think you can play the new class. So it’s already there.

I’m not sure if you can play the specialist if you don’t own the expansion.

It take about 3 hours of dungeon running to buy an episode, so I dont’ think it’s a big deal.

If it makes you feel better, sinister stats rally aren’t worth it. You get better DPS by going zerker.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jurah%27s_Jewel

Also has the exact same stats as Wynne’s locket.
However, the locket has a defensive infusion slot, and the jewel has offensive.

In PvE, it would be more preferrable to have the offensive infusion over defensive.But for WvW, the opposite might be true. But that depends on your build, and what you are wanting to do.

I thought this was available in several NPCs?
Can’t you even buy it with bandit crests?

ReaverKane.7598:

I thought this was available in several NPCs?
Can’t you even buy it with bandit crests?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wynne%27s_Locket

You have to unlock it via seeds of truth story chapter by completing all the achievements (Which gives it as a reward for completing all the achievments). After you’ve done that, then you can buy it for laurals or 10g and 1000 bandit crests.

pdavis.8031:

ReaverKane.7598:

I thought this was available in several NPCs?
Can’t you even buy it with bandit crests?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wynne%27s_Locket

You have to unlock it via seeds of truth story chapter by completing all the achievements (Which gives it as a reward for completing all the achievments). After you’ve done that, then you can buy it for laurals or 10g and 1000 bandit crests.

Ah, my bad then. Still doesn’t really make it P2W. I certainly didn’t pay anything to get mine.
Besides 200 gems is like 30g, depending on the days, not that hard to get.

OMG I WON!
What did I win again?

ReaverKane.7598:

pdavis.8031:

ReaverKane.7598:

I thought this was available in several NPCs?
Can’t you even buy it with bandit crests?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wynne%27s_Locket

You have to unlock it via seeds of truth story chapter by completing all the achievements (Which gives it as a reward for completing all the achievments). After you’ve done that, then you can buy it for laurals or 10g and 1000 bandit crests.

Ah, my bad then. Still doesn’t really make it P2W. I certainly didn’t pay anything to get mine.
Besides 200 gems is like 30g, depending on the days, not that hard to get.

Yeah, P2W? not so much.

30g too grindy to get? $2.50 USD is how much it costs. Thats far less than a cup of coffee or a bottle of water in some places. If $2.50 is breaking the bank for you, you got bigger stuff to worry about than whether or not GW2 is P2W…..

No guys, you’re missing the point. Everything in this game is Pay 2 Win cause you had to buy the game in the first place. In order to play the game and have things with which to win you had to pay, so it’s totally P2W.

Kal Spiro.9745:

No guys, you’re missing the point. Everything in this game is Pay 2 Win cause you had to buy the game in the first place. In order to play the game and have things with which to win you had to pay, so it’s totally P2W.

OMG!!!!

You’re right!!
How could I have not seen this!? I feel like a veil has been lifted from my eyes and I can see the truth!!

Thank you for setting me on the correct path!!! I will now go forth and preach the truth of the P2W! Let all who hear bask in the revelation from above!!

If putting things behind an expansion is p2w then every game that has ever had a paid expansion is p2w. Leveling, armor, weapons, mounts, new races, new professions with their new skills, new areas, all sorts of things in games that have had expansions.

Really, people need to stop calling every aspect of mmorpgs, p2w.

Kal Spiro.9745:

No guys, you’re missing the point. Everything in this game is Pay 2 Win cause you had to buy the game in the first place. In order to play the game and have things with which to win you had to pay, so it’s totally P2W.

You get a cookie for that one buddy.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

If putting things behind an expansion is p2w then every game that has ever had a paid expansion is p2w. Leveling, armor, weapons, mounts, new races, new professions with their new skills, new areas, all sorts of things in things that have had expansions.

Really, people need to stop calling every aspect of mmorpgs, p2w.

They really, really need to learn what pay to win means. Cause GW2 don’t even come close…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sinister_Armor_Recipe_Book

Sinister recipes are available from open-world chests that anyone can just walk up to. I’m really not seeing where the P2W allegation comes in at all.

Kal Spiro.9745:

No guys, you’re missing the point. Everything in this game is Pay 2 Win cause you had to buy the game in the first place. In order to play the game and have things with which to win you had to pay, so it’s totally P2W.

You need to make this as your signature because it’s a profound truth. ^^

P2W probably not. But it sure is weird that if you want to get certain stat combo’s on ascended you need to buy that chapter of the LS, and complete the achievement.

Why these aren’t just added to the vendor for everyone puzzles me. Getting an ascended trinket for free isn’t a good enough reward?

Terrahero.9358:

P2W probably not. But it sure is weird that if you want to get certain stat combo’s on ascended you need to buy that chapter of the LS, and complete the achievement.

Why these aren’t just added to the vendor for everyone puzzles me. Getting an ascended trinket for free isn’t a good enough reward?

It is, but it gives you the option to buy more if you want to. Plus the Jewel which has the same stats is available through the vendor without having to unlock anything.

Edit: Correction. You need to complete point of no return to be able to buy it from the vendors. You don’t have to do all the achievements, just complete the episode.

pdavis.8031:

Terrahero.9358:

P2W probably not. But it sure is weird that if you want to get certain stat combo’s on ascended you need to buy that chapter of the LS, and complete the achievement.

Why these aren’t just added to the vendor for everyone puzzles me. Getting an ascended trinket for free isn’t a good enough reward?

It is, but it gives you the option to buy more if you want to. Plus the Jewel which has the same stats is available through the vendor without having to unlock anything.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jurah%27s_Jewel ?

Because that isnt sold by any vendor untill after you complete that particular chapter.

Terrahero.9358:

pdavis.8031:

Terrahero.9358:

P2W probably not. But it sure is weird that if you want to get certain stat combo’s on ascended you need to buy that chapter of the LS, and complete the achievement.

Why these aren’t just added to the vendor for everyone puzzles me. Getting an ascended trinket for free isn’t a good enough reward?

It is, but it gives you the option to buy more if you want to. Plus the Jewel which has the same stats is available through the vendor without having to unlock anything.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jurah%27s_Jewel ?

Because that isnt sold by any vendor untill after you complete that particular chapter.

Edited my post.

I don’t think that it is strange to lock rewards behind completing content. Almost every aspect of the game does that. Want dungeon tokens? Run dungeons, or PvP. Want karma? Do events and PvE dailies. Want gold? Do activities in game that give you gold (or use your credit card). Want a legendary? Do map completion. The list goes on. Want a specific reward that is granted from doing specific content? Do that content.

But dungeons arent the only way to get, f.e. Berserkers gear. And neither do dungeons require seperate purchase through gems in order to play them.

The convert to gems argument i find troubling because people can get a big variance in how much they end up “paying” because you are depending on a variable market.
And 30g isnt exactly peanuts, it’s not difficult, but it can be quite time consuming. Especially for newer players, who are likely the one’s that missed out on the free unlock and don’t have as much experience.

That effort and time spend to acquire 30g just to then get the oppertunity to grind more to unlock the stat combination you want. A grind within a grind.
Fact it’s currently 30g44s for 200gems, this already shows that prices can go up quickly. Last i checked (<2weeks ago) 25g would’ve gotten you those 200gems.

Lol If you really want it you can get it by just doing the Sw events if I’m right, ttey are available from the vendor for 10 gold and 1000 crests. So you should be able to get them.

And unless you really want to run glass condi you will have little or no use for it otherwise. and if you do not know I’d suggest you craft the easy available exotics first OR try for the rampagers sets. They are 10 % less effective in conditiuon dmg but give the same power.

Terrahero.9358:

But dungeons arent the only way to get, f.e. Berserkers gear. And neither do dungeons require seperate purchase through gems in order to play them.

The convert to gems argument i find troubling because people can get a big variance in how much they end up “paying” because you are depending on a variable market.
And 30g isnt exactly peanuts, it’s not difficult, but it can be quite time consuming. Especially for newer players, who are likely the one’s that missed out on the free unlock and don’t have as much experience.

That effort and time spend to acquire 30g just to then get the oppertunity to grind more to unlock the stat combination you want. A grind within a grind.
Fact it’s currently 30g44s for 200gems, this already shows that prices can go up quickly. Last i checked (<2weeks ago) 25g would’ve gotten you those 200gems.

I never said anything about specific gear stats. There certainly other ways to get Beserker gear. But dungeon tokens are used for more than just beserker gear. Legendaries for one. And yes, dungeons don’t require you to buy something in order to get it.

Converting gems may not be the best the best option, but it certainly is an option. Plus the more people convert gems to gold, the price goes down, and everyone wins. Also gems can be purchased for cash at the standard unchanging rate of $1.25 for 100 gems.

But my point is specific rewards require doing specific content. Whether that is dungeons, map completion, WvW, PvP, events, dailies, etc. If you want the rewards for doing the specific content, do the specific content. Just because some of it is locked behind having to buy some DLC, doesn’t somehow make it unfair or P2W (not that you are syaing its P2W, but generally speaking) Those things are rewards for buying the DLC.

Should players have access to everything, including DLC content and the rewards associated with it, without having to buy it? Or log in the game during a certain time period? Other games do this all the time. Limited time sales, or free time windows, etc. But no one whines about that. But GW2 does it and the sky is falling, because it’s unfair.

An example of that is Borderlands 2. There is a chest that gives you uber awesome gear that you can open with special keys. (think BLTC chests and keys.) The keys don’t drop in-game, and the only way to get them is to buy them with cash. Now occassionally they would do a promotion on twitter to get a free key. Is that fair to people who don’t have twitter? Or follow them? Or check their twitter in the 2 hours it’s available?

I guess you do need to buy the GAME to get dungeon tokens and open the content?

Hmm? Or Am I wrong?

P2W my not have been the best of terms for the OP to have used. Though we all should admit, it is a bit odd that some Trinkets and Armor are gated behind the LS. That new players have to pay gems for what we received for free. Either the LS episodes should be free or that the vendor unlocks be removed. This way new players can play content and unlock the Armor and trinkets today.

It’s been said, but to reiterate, if you just want sinister stats you can get the exotic recipe books from chests. And ascended armor and weapon books.

Full sinister is not currently an ideal set anyway. If you want a condi element to your dps build (such as medi guard, though I haven’t tried crunching the damage numbers yet) why not try ascended sinister armor and ascended berserker trinkets? Then if you need a little more condi go ascended sinister weapons, otherwise berserker weapons. Then put scholar runes in your armor and fire/air sigils in your weapons.

That way, you lose the ferocity on your armor and a bit of power, but gain a lot of condi, and still have quite a respectable amount of damage.

Not saying this build is ideal, but if you wanted a combination of condi and dos then you can do so without ascended sinister trinkets.

pdavis.8031:

Terrahero.9358:

But dungeons arent the only way to get, f.e. Berserkers gear. And neither do dungeons require seperate purchase through gems in order to play them.

The convert to gems argument i find troubling because people can get a big variance in how much they end up “paying” because you are depending on a variable market.
And 30g isnt exactly peanuts, it’s not difficult, but it can be quite time consuming. Especially for newer players, who are likely the one’s that missed out on the free unlock and don’t have as much experience.

That effort and time spend to acquire 30g just to then get the oppertunity to grind more to unlock the stat combination you want. A grind within a grind.
Fact it’s currently 30g44s for 200gems, this already shows that prices can go up quickly. Last i checked (<2weeks ago) 25g would’ve gotten you those 200gems.

I never said anything about specific gear stats. There certainly other ways to get Beserker gear. But dungeon tokens are used for more than just beserker gear. Legendaries for one. And yes, dungeons don’t require you to buy something in order to get it.

Converting gems may not be the best the best option, but it certainly is an option. Plus the more people convert gems to gold, the price goes down, and everyone wins. Also gems can be purchased for cash at the standard unchanging rate of $1.25 for 100 gems.

But my point is specific rewards require doing specific content. Whether that is dungeons, map completion, WvW, PvP, events, dailies, etc. If you want the rewards for doing the specific content, do the specific content. Just because some of it is locked behind having to buy some DLC, doesn’t somehow make it unfair or P2W (not that you are syaing its P2W, but generally speaking) Those things are rewards for buying the DLC.

Should players have access to everything, including DLC content and the rewards associated with it, without having to buy it? Or log in the game during a certain time period? Other games do this all the time. Limited time sales, or free time windows, etc. But no one whines about that. But GW2 does it and the sky is falling, because it’s unfair.

An example of that is Borderlands 2. There is a chest that gives you uber awesome gear that you can open with special keys. (think BLTC chests and keys.) The keys don’t drop in-game, and the only way to get them is to buy them with cash. Now occassionally they would do a promotion on twitter to get a free key. Is that fair to people who don’t have twitter? Or follow them? Or check their twitter in the 2 hours it’s available?

But my argument is that stat combination shouldn’t be content locked rewards. Cosmetics, titles and such, sure, none of that has any impact in the effectiveness of anyone. Unless you try to sparkle someone to death.
Stat combinations does have an impact on how your character and the build you use performs.

The argument “the stats arent good” i find highly irrelevant, it’s people choice how they want to gear. And what is and isn’t good changes all the time.

I also do not care what Borderlands does, it’s a very different game in an entirely different genre where it’s not even that relevant. Chests also do not function exactly like you said.

Terrahero.9358:

But my argument is that stat combination shouldn’t be content locked rewards. Cosmetics, titles and such, sure, none of that has any impact in the effectiveness of anyone. Unless you try to sparkle someone to death.
Stat combinations does have an impact on how your character and the build you use performs.

The argument “the stats arent good” i find highly irrelevant, it’s people choice how they want to gear. And what is and isn’t good changes all the time.

I also do not care what Borderlands does, it’s a very different game in an entirely different genre where it’s not even that relevant. Chests also do not function exactly like you said.

But stat combinations are not locked behind paying for the LS.
You can get sinister stat recipes in Silverwastes, as well as sinister stat drops. None of which you have to pay extra for.
For the ascended amulet versions? Yes, but thats the extra incentive to buy the DLC and complete it.

The difference between sinister ascended vs sinister exotic amulets is: +21 power, +21 precision, +36 condition damage.
Which really isn’t that much. Of course you can argue that having those extra stats is important, but in the end, it’s not going to make a noticable difference. At least not a big enough one to absolutely need it and not being able to do certain content because you don’t have it. (As far as fractals are concerned, you can get all the AR you need without having an ascended trinket.)

I agree, about the “stats not good.” It’s very subjective and some people like it. So it’s not really a valid argument.

As for Borderlands. The point is, other games lock rewards behind DLC content that you have to pay for. It’s not uncommon. I used Borderlands as an example, because thats also one of my favorite games. So the illustration that it is a fairly common practice is still valid.

OP referring to expansions as P2W.

OP already lost.

Sorry but the excuse it’s a small stat difference does not fly.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/No-grind-philosophy/page/4

“We don’t think you should need to grind to get the best gear and stats in Guild Wars 2”.

So what exactly does that mean:

- The best gear/stats: This means to have statistically the best abilities in the game, you shouldn’t need to, by our definition of the word, grind. This goes for leveling and getting top gear (by our definition that’s ascended gear, legendary being an optional extra thing you can do, but don’t need to do.)

Ascended is considered by arenanet to be the top level of gear. Also note how they clearly destinguish between ascended and legendary, and how they call legendary in particular optional.

The borderlands 2 argument still does not stand because it’s first of all an entirely different genre, you cannot just compare one thing one genre does with something another genre does. By that logic we should see first-person shooter elements because Borderlands does that too.
Also, borderlands 2 alone does not constitute a common practise.

Terrahero.9358:

Sorry but the excuse it’s a small stat difference does not fly.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/No-grind-philosophy/page/4

“We don’t think you should need to grind to get the best gear and stats in Guild Wars 2”.

So what exactly does that mean:

- The best gear/stats: This means to have statistically the best abilities in the game, you shouldn’t need to, by our definition of the word, grind. This goes for leveling and getting top gear (by our definition that’s ascended gear, legendary being an optional extra thing you can do, but don’t need to do.)

Ascended is considered by arenanet to be the top level of gear. Also note how they clearly destinguish between ascended and legendary, and how they call legendary in particular optional.

The borderlands 2 argument still does not stand because it’s first of all an entirely different genre, you cannot just compare one thing one genre does with something another genre does. By that logic we should see first-person shooter elements because Borderlands does that too.
Also, borderlands 2 alone does not constitute a common practise.

Please keep the “no grind” discussion where it belongs in the appropriate thread.
(https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Grind-is-still-grind/page/6#post4885484)
This thread isn’t about grinding, it;’s about locking rewards behind paying for DLC/Content

Borderlands 2, although is a different genre, illustrates how video games in general use rewards/perks behind DLC as an incentive to buy the DLC.

Some other MMOs that have done the exact same thing are:
Everquest
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/EQ:Expansions
Each expansion brought a new element/reward only to those who bought the expansion.

WoW
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft#Expansions
Each expansion brough new elements/rewards only to those who purchased the expansions

Guild Wars 1 (arguably not an MMO)
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Eye_of_the_North
Brought elements/rewards only to those who purchased the expansion

For a longer list go to: http://blog.games.com/2013/03/14/top-10-mmorpg-expansion-packs/

Each expansion offers content/elements/rewards only for those who have purchased it. Why should it be any different for GW2? It’s already an industry standard.