Guild Wars 2

I have a small guild and it’s kittened, thanks for nothing.
Can’t do kitten in a small guild. Thanks for stealing all my upgrades and not allowing any way to gain favor.

at least you have fun with a guild hall… no
at least you can still have fun in dungeons w/ some rewards… no
at least you can roll some wvw as a small guild.. fo now

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3uznbc/major_wvw_overhaul_colin_j_ft_e/?ref=search_posts

How small is small? We are doing fine with 5 and almost level 30.

I do sympathise as I felt exatcly the same at first. However, we have no more than 5 people left in our guild and only 2-3 who play enough to contribute. After 2 weeks, we are level 12 and not really having any major issues so far. I have since had to eat my original words of contempt against the system.

It is entirely doable, but it can feel quite the hurdle at first for a small guild.

I should say tiny, 2 man guild one mostly afk w/ the expansion. Had tons of upgrades etc, So everything I do now does not go toward anything guild related, sucks.

Easy to upgrade small guilds if the people are not greedy and lazy and donate stuff. I am in a small guild so I know.

Honestly, less than a party doesn’t really even count as a guild. But that being said, yes the amount of materials needed is rather massive, but with time even a couple of people can do it. Just because larger guilds can advance more quickly does not mean you even should be able to. Just take your time and don’t rush it.

PS. If you’re hell bent on getting stuff that large guilds now have access to, like armors or weapons, join one or don’t complain.

feels broke can’t get favor, influence etc. I dont care about rapid upgrading, just want activities i do to account for something in the guild.

You can start a guild with 1 person.
So imho you should be able to do tiny guild missions and have a tiny guild hall.
Even if the hall was just a small pub, it could have grown as your guild progress.
That’s how I would have liked ANet to design it.

PS. Yes, I know, its an MMO, social game, etc. etc. but I’m a solo player at heart and I love this game, so, its my opinion.

The reason many people are complaining is there were a lot of us in one man guilds. I had a lot of stuff unlocked and could get banners and such. Now all that is lost for no reason. They should have kept the old system of influence for small guilds and then let large guilds move over to halls which as one person I have no interest in.

Again, I sympathise you losing out on upgrades.

Do you require assistance in getting a Hall? I’m happy to help if you are EU. I’m sure plenty of others will happily help as well. With the hall, it doesn’t take long to regain those services. I know it’s not ideal, but it will be quicker than hoping for them to change the system

Pre Purchase they said small guild would not be left out.

They lied…..

It is so easy to create, lets say, 3 levels of guild halls from a small guild hall for guilds under 10 ppl, to a medium guild hall for 11 – 30 ppl and a big guild hall for guilds with more than 30 ppl that I do not understand why ANet has been so lazy about it.

My Solo guild is level 16…. i wish i knew why people still complained about this. Is it so hard to ask around for help for Gmissions?

Angelica Dream.7103:

Pre Purchase they said small guild would not be left out.

They lied…..

They did not lie.

People are just ignorant. They said many times that Guild Halls were designed with 10 people in mind. Anything less than that is no more than a party.

I I.7359:

I have a small guild and it’s kittened, thanks for nothing.
Can’t do kitten in a small guild. Thanks for stealing all my upgrades and not allowing any way to gain favor.

Key to doing this with a small guild, be patient. It will take time to get all the materials so you need so prioritize. You can’t expect to have it done overnight. In a small guild with about 5 focusing and another 5 or so off and on we are already at level 32.

On the favor side, ran some missions solo in an alt guild last night and finished 2 of the 3 missions out. I would recommend trying those on Mondays after the weekly reset and then you can run them with other guilds and combine your efforts. Example: bounty, help track and kill it. I think I saw 6 or 7 guilds tracking the same target last night. Rush/race, same thing, have yours active while others are running it and add your score into theirs.

In short small guilds will require more people dedicated to material and resource gathering than larger guilds. But guild missions are in a great state right now and there is no real price to failing them or running them multiple times as needed.

Now likewise, you will have better odds of getting ANet on board with changes if you address which issues you have and some possible solutions.

I have a small guild of 32 is people. But only 3 of us actually play the game. Others don’t rep it don’t play.
Of the three of us, the guild started at about rank 5 and we are now rank 10 just got our work station, and already almost the market.
Sure we individually spend more gold. But we are managing fine.
I’m sure me having 16 characters farming mats for it is helping too.

And thus, as I predicted, everyone forgets and forgives Arenanet for removing progress yet again.

Let’s completely ignore the fact they removed it in the first place, and be happy we can pay to re-earn abilities. And tell the people who are just realizing it that all is well.

Wait…https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3uznbc/major_wvw_overhaul_colin_j_ft_e/?ref=search_posts

WHAT THE kittyING kitty ARE YOU kittying kittenING ME.. This guy better be fake…

It’s not that it’s impossible, or even difficult. It’s that it’s different.

The new system expects you to invest in your guild. The old system just handed you stuff for free. The new one is based around permanent buff unlocks. The old one was built around constant buff upkeep.

The new one actually saves your guild money and time once you complete certain upgrades. (WP discount, Guild trader, Merchants, Banks, Harvesting nodes) The old one just cost you more money the more upgrades you got. (Constantly refreshing buffs, constantly crafting guild missions)

It will take some adjustments, but in the long run I assure you, the new system is far better and more fair for small guilds, and allows those small guilds to put in the hard work once in stead of having to toss an infinite amount of gold at influence to keep up with the same amount of benefit a large guild would get in terms of buffs or mission access for free just by earning more influence from people logging in and possibly not even playing together.

Unless you’re a WvW only guild, then it just sucks.

Didn’t cost money, costed influence which you got from playing your way with guildies instead of having to farm kitten…

Snow.2048:

Didn’t cost money, costed influence which you got from playing your way with guildies instead of having to farm kitten…

but the difference is that people didnt’ get to tell/show u that they were more important than you. thats why this system is better

Snow.2048:

Didn’t cost money, costed influence which you got from playing your way with guildies instead of having to farm kitten…

Which, as a small guild, you had no hope of getting enough of to keep up all your buffs and afford all of your guild missions each week. Especially if you failed a mission or two.

I understand some people preferred to get guild stuff for doing nothing. This is not that system. However, what this system pays out is of sufficiently greater value to make it worth it in the long run for small guilds, and is cheap enough it’s a non-issue for large guilds.

New players in an established guild save extreme amounts of money and laurels on ascended recipies from the trader, and make significant amounts of money from resonating shard trades.

BL bank items are useless to any guild with a guild hall. So are bank yaks. So are vendors. The more targeted personal buffs mean everyone can easily focus on what is important to them without logistcal headaches of deciding what buffs to run, how to que them, and so on.

The only real problems the system have are all related to the war room and scribing costs. Banners are too expensive to craft. The upgrades to unlock them are fine, but the actual scribing hosts are simply too high, Same for war room upgrades and tactics, which whould be more reasonably achievable by guilds that are most likely to prioritize that structure, those that play primarily in WvW.

It isn’t perfect, but for PvE guilds? It’s a massive improvement over the old system, and makes being in and investing in a guild actually worth it, no matter the size of the guild.

Angelica Dream.7103:

Pre Purchase they said small guild would not be left out.
They lied…..

I find your opinion to be incorrect.

In my guild we have roughly 8 or so active donators, 20 or so that complain about guild buffs but are doing no donations, and 10 or so that occasionally toss in stuff to help out.

The guild level right now is… either 34 or 35 off the top of my head.

Small guilds can get up there, it just takes being active and donating a lot towards a common goal.

The guild leveling was setup rather generically like real life. The more active people you have, the better the guild hall you can have.

I suspect if there were things like.. EQ’s “work orders”, quests that can be taken on to help the guild/guild hall out, were put into the game that would help small guilds out as much as it would large guilds. Yes, I realize the current system can be compared to that already, but it would be a way to “quest” to get items directly rather than pray on rng or prey on gold.

a 2 man guild, no so sure if that should be even considerated a guild….

Nope. I don’t feel sorry for small guilds. Every big guild either has a bank roller or have a people donating a lot. So, you either find someone that will bank roll the guild or recruit. Not that hard. Stop complaining about how your 10 people and under can’t do anything. The upgrades are there for people that want to work towards them. Sorry, you can’t just have handouts.

I agree that it seems unfair that a small guild of a handful of players has to shell out the same amount of money and materials as a 500-strong guild.

But, how on earth would A-net be able to fairly adjust the prices of a guildhall for smaller guilds?

What people have been asking for is some sort of scaling or “tiers” of GH size/requirement of materials depending on roster size.

That would mean that a small, 2-man guild could get all the finances together to unlock all GH upgrades in a short space of time. They could then max-out their roster and, hey presto, their 500-man guild avoided the huge expenditure.

What kind of system would be in place to prevent that, and how would it be designed so that it wouldn’t limit a small but actively growing guild?

As of this moment, the fairest (least exploitable) way of doing it is how it currently is. At least you can be a member of up to 5 guilds, meaning that small guilds can invite outsiders to help with guild missions. Influence no longer exists, which means in that sense larger/more active guilds don’t have an advantage over smaller ones.

Crimson Clouds.4853:

What kind of system would be in place to prevent that, and how would it be designed so that it wouldn’t limit a small but actively growing guild?

Easy, you have tiers based on guild size.

Example, lets say a guild that is 10 and under is a T1 size. 11 to 20? T2, etc.

Each guild buff (lets just say buff A) has some bonus value. However, you also have a buff value associated to guild size. Buff A_T1, A_T2, etc. The value of buff A (given to players) doesn’t change per guild size, you just have the same buff per tier of guild size.

So if you have Guild size T1, and buff A_T1, congrats, you can use your buff. But if your guild goes to size T2, but you only have buff A_T1, oops. Guild size is greater than buff size, buff size can no longer be used until your buff size is larger.

But the turn around on this… This means more lines of code, more time to debug, more time to QA…. It is more complicated. Honestly, for cost value gained, what was implemented is the most efficient. It also fits ANET’s MO when it comes to coding. Code it once and forget it exists.

OneYenShort.3189:

Crimson Clouds.4853:

What kind of system would be in place to prevent that, and how would it be designed so that it wouldn’t limit a small but actively growing guild?

Easy, you have tiers based on guild size.

Ok, it admittedly took me longer than it should’ve to understand your explanation. (It’s getting late and there was a lot to think about! Even so, I still may have misunderstood so feel free to jump on me about that :P )

I get that the tier system would work for buffs, but how would it work for physical unlocks like the arena, tavern, workshop and mine?

Would it mean that a small guild could unlock it, grow in size and then not be able to access previously unlocked elements (they’d have to pay extra to re-unlock it)?

For some things I could understand that scaling down material costs would be easy. 1000 carrots? Make that 100 carrots, or 250. But low quantity, high cost items would be difficult to reduce/divide.

Do you think it would be confusing or misleading for growing guilds to unlock something, for it to be relocked again? Do you think it could breed a “kick” culture, where if a guild is just a couple above roster tier size, they’ll be happier to kick than to pay more to re-upgrade?

Even so, your solution still could be improved upon. I’m in a guild with 30 max. active players… more than 2/3rds of the guild aren’t regular players but are still “part of the guild” because they’re friends and old guildies who still belong. Would that mean that guilds with a high number of inactives get penalised? It certainly would put guild leaders in a tricky position: do they kick seldom-seen players in order to save money on the upgrades?

Missed my point. Not doing nothing for guild support, doing what you want for the support.

Also, you could keep enough important buffs [highly guild dependent) up (even in wvw) with minimal effort, so that point is just ignorant bs. (10k+ With 6 man is doable)
Yes commendations are easier now, etc etc but that is not what I’ saying

1. They reset progress, repackaged and sold it.
2. They limited options when it comes to developing a guild, turning a work together to earn points into a gold grind.

It could be the best reskin in the world, but it still is a paid reskin that deleted the original so you have to pay or gtfo. Hope you guys enjoy next xpac in which they remove an even larger portion of the core/HoT and resell it (its been getting steadily worse if you pay attention). You all deserve it.

Crimson Clouds.4853:

Ok, it admittedly took me longer than it should’ve to understand your explanation. (It’s getting late and there was a lot to think about! Even so, I still may have misunderstood so feel free to jump on me about that :P )

What I gave was a bare bones idea of what could be done so obviously it wouldn’t fit everything. No need to jump on anyone for hypothetical stuff.

Crimson Clouds.4853:

I get that the tier system would work for buffs, but how would it work for physical unlocks like the arena, tavern, workshop and mine?

Given what is currently coded, yeah… They’d have to lock it down. Now as you noted it would be scaled cost to get from kitten T2 where in Tmax would be our current cost.

Crimson Clouds.4853:

Do you think it would be confusing or misleading for growing guilds to unlock something, for it to be relocked again? Do you think it could breed a “kick” culture, where if a guild is just a couple above roster tier size, they’ll be happier to kick than to pay more to re-upgrade?

Everything is confusing until it gets understood or explained. That is why people make guides.
As for a kicking culture…. Yeah it could. Lets face it, humans will kick others for the smallest of reasons. But with a scaled method, it should be easy enough for the larger guild to get enough resources to move to the next tier if they work together.

Heck a kicking culture already exists. Both the previous and current method of guilds encourages 100% rep even though we can split time. This is already grounds for kicking in some guilds.

Am I an advocate for a change to how guilds currently lack scaling? Not really. I’m an advocate of if it isn’t broke don’t fix it. I also enjoy the discussions of theoretical changes that could be done to accommodate more players. The model currently generically mimics real life. While that can be a pain and depressing for a video game, it is what it is. The GH is full of niceties not must haves.

3 person guild with lvl 20 guild hall here, also nothing like paying for something twice+ to just get back what we already unlocked in core game regardless size of guild. huge fail by the dev’s