Small Guilds, stop complaining about GHls

Small Guilds, stop complaining about GHls

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: shadow.6174

shadow.6174

Test test… forum page wrap bug :P

Small Guilds, stop complaining about GHls

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

From a purely factual standpoint, it is though. I’ve pretty meticulously laid out why. Influence costs scaled up as you unlocked things, but earning did not. Your ability to use your upgrades depended heavily on having larger guild populations and more highly active players on a daily basis.

{snip}

These are all statements of fact, not opinion.

Ummm… No, they’re not really. Banner A cost X. Much better Banner B cost Y. Think, oh, XP banner vs Heroes banner or something. The item costs were fixed, not scaled. Those are facts. They had nothing to do with the guild size. If you’d unlocked the pre-requisites & you had the influence, you could buy them.

Whether you think that’s better or worse than the system now? That’s opinion.

If you were a small guild, and you had & you did… You can’t now. Anet took that away. You’ve got to go through a huge grind to unlock the ability to purchase those consumables now; consumables that you had access to before. Now, once you’ve done that, it might well be that the cost for the consumable is the same whether you’re small or huge; X number of Y materials. But for Banner B, which you had access to prior to HoT, you have a kittening great wall to climb over to get the access that you had already unlocked once… Hard for a small guild.

Now that I understand your point a bit better, I think nothing has really changed. Instead of the wall of “I have access to this but need X amount to make it”, we have a wall of “I need X amount to access this, and then I can make it”. That isn’t easier for a small guild, it just puts the same effort in a different, earlier place. If you see what I mean?

No, you don’t have to go through a grind to unlock them if you already had them unlocked. That’s the central point of misinformation I keep seeing.

The acquisition method is only changed for guilds that didn’t already have access to these consumables.

If you had them unlocked previously, you walk in to the guild initiative, and hand the NPC some favor, though one poster has said that NPC is temporarily disabled, that’s how I have been spending all of the excess favor we don’t use for hall upgrades because it’s actually cheaper and faster than making them via the new scribing system, and that level of cheap and easy actually can’t be obtained by new guilds who hadn’t unlocked them in the old system.

You keep repeating that and it’s not true. My guild and many other guilds like mine had +5 supplies unlocked and it’s gone now unless we get a guild hall and grind out all the upgrades to get it back. I can try talking to that temporarily disabled npc till I’m blue in the face, he won’t be giving me back my upgrade even though I had it unlocked.

So maybe instead of repeating your “upgrades aren’t lost” mantra, how about you start reading what other people are saying to you? Not every player wants banners!

Also, not every player wants to have to grind some pve maps to get the materials needed for upgrading guilds halls (silverwastes shovels, anyone?). That’s why the old influence system was superior to what we have now – you could play the content you enjoyed and were still able to upgrade your guild. Now, if you don’t like pve, you’re out of luck. And you keep acting as if the players who complain about the new system were unreasonable.

Guild halls could have been a nice addition to GW2, but instead we got a system that seems to be purely designed to be a gold and time sink.

I’ve said this multiple times:

The wvw portion of the system (and WvW adjustments since launch in general) was poorly thought out and implemented. I completely agree with you on this front. The substance of my posts (all of them) aren’t at all about wvw. They are about PvE uses of the PvE-centric system.

The requirements for the war room and arena are in fact severely out of balance with actual income adjustments for those modes. Absolutely. It would not have been at all difficult, as they are independant structures, to make them specifically dependent on their respective game modes.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

(edited by PopeUrban.2578)

Small Guilds, stop complaining about GHls

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

@PopeUrban: That argument is very tired. I could make banners two weeks ago. Now I cannot. I’m done with this as far as you’re concerned.

Yes. You can. Walk in to the guild initiative. Talk to the NPC. You now have a banner for favor.

Which NPC would that be? The Guild Requisitioner? He gives a message “This content has been temporarily disabled. Try again later.”

Then try again later?

Last two times I spoke with him he worked fine.

Complaining that the NPC is down for an adjustment is not the same as claiming “all my ability to use my old unlocks is gone forever”

And, honestly, every single post that parrots the same false assertion, that people can’t use their upgrades, has the same problem.

Sure, be upset that your access is temporarily suspended That’s a legitimate complaint and I agree with you. I’d like to know why he got temporarily disabled as I’ve used him as a source for banners while that horribly untested scribe is missing key components to actually produce banners. (Which, incidentally, is a far larger issue that actually blocks a production method for several things including tactics and decorations in addition to banners.)

However, this is just like when they temp disabled karma vendors or various other things. It’s as likely he’s being rewords to be even cheaper as it is he’s headed for the scrap heap. They didn’t go to the trouble of adding the NPC just to delete him a week later.

Using a temporary outage as a justification to rage against the entire system is just plain short sighted and silly.

What makes you think that I haven’t tried multiple times over different days? I have yet to see him working. There is a Reddit thread from 11 days ago asking why he’s disabled. The wiki previously listed the options he gives as having the disabled message. Now, the wiki simply lists nothing and he is still disabled.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Requisitioner

I have yet to see proof that banners and other previously attainable consumables are still available to a guild without needing HoT for the guildmaster. If there are non-HoT guildleaders without guild halls who have been able to access the requisitioner, I hope they post so I can figure out why I can not.

You are correct that the vendor is currently down.

However I personally used him the first two mission cycles after launch for banners. 10% XP/karma banners specifically. No, I did not personally attempt to buy one of every unlock as at that point I didn’t have the favor to burn and simply assumed it all worked just as well as the thing I did buy.

Until a red name posts that he is headed for the scrap yard, there’s no reason to assume that its anything more than a temporary outage born of some exploit. There are quite a few other things they disabled temporarily due to discovered exploits.

If your argument is, literally that this functionality doesn’t exist and never existed, I’ll say again that’s a very different thing than being upset it has been offline for an unreasonably long time.

For the record I agree with you. It has been offline for an unreasonably long time. I have excess favor piling up, I’d also like to use it like I had been previously, and I’ll be just as upset as you are if the vendor in question is in fact permanently removed.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

(edited by PopeUrban.2578)

Small Guilds, stop complaining about GHls

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

Simple reply to this thread – GW1 Guild Halls…….of course those that didn’t play GW1 won’t know what I’m talking about, but devs should. Let’s keep some integrity here.

I hear you. This was a point I argued in the CDI about guild halls, and small guilds had their concerns shot down there by the larger guilds as well.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

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Posted by: Draknar.5748

Draknar.5748

I also think it’s worth defining what we mean by large and small guilds here. It seems many people only think faceless 500+ guilds are able to get guild halls.

A guild of 20 members will have absolutely no trouble getting a guild hall. Source: helped a guild take their hall with around 20 people. There have been documented instances of guilds as small as TWO members being able to get a hall and upgrade it. Though they are clearly not the norm.

What we’re actually talking about here are guilds with typically less than 10 members being unable to capture and subsequently upgrade their guild halls.

It’s unfortunate, but its certainly not limited to only giant guilds as this thread would have everyone believe.

The 10 person and under guilds will have to try significantly harder to get theirs. But that should be incentive to recruit and expand your guild. If you don’t want to expand and want to stay with a small circle of IRL friends, then I don’t really know what to say. That’s a choice you make.

I won’t stop because I can’t stop.

It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

Drakar, the 10-man and less has been established well before now. Additionally, it’s more than just the Hall claiming that the thread (and several others) has been discussing.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

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Posted by: Lobo Dela Noche.5127

Lobo Dela Noche.5127

From a purely factual standpoint, it is though. I’ve pretty meticulously laid out why. Influence costs scaled up as you unlocked things, but earning did not. Your ability to use your upgrades depended heavily on having larger guild populations and more highly active players on a daily basis.

{snip}

These are all statements of fact, not opinion.

Ummm… No, they’re not really. Banner A cost X. Much better Banner B cost Y. Think, oh, XP banner vs Heroes banner or something. The item costs were fixed, not scaled. Those are facts. They had nothing to do with the guild size. If you’d unlocked the pre-requisites & you had the influence, you could buy them.

Whether you think that’s better or worse than the system now? That’s opinion.

If you were a small guild, and you had & you did… You can’t now. Anet took that away. You’ve got to go through a huge grind to unlock the ability to purchase those consumables now; consumables that you had access to before. Now, once you’ve done that, it might well be that the cost for the consumable is the same whether you’re small or huge; X number of Y materials. But for Banner B, which you had access to prior to HoT, you have a kittening great wall to climb over to get the access that you had already unlocked once… Hard for a small guild.

Now that I understand your point a bit better, I think nothing has really changed. Instead of the wall of “I have access to this but need X amount to make it”, we have a wall of “I need X amount to access this, and then I can make it”. That isn’t easier for a small guild, it just puts the same effort in a different, earlier place. If you see what I mean?

No, you don’t have to go through a grind to unlock them if you already had them unlocked. That’s the central point of misinformation I keep seeing.

The acquisition method is only changed for guilds that didn’t already have access to these consumables.

If you had them unlocked previously, you walk in to the guild initiative, and hand the NPC some favor, though one poster has said that NPC is temporarily disabled, that’s how I have been spending all of the excess favor we don’t use for hall upgrades because it’s actually cheaper and faster than making them via the new scribing system, and that level of cheap and easy actually can’t be obtained by new guilds who hadn’t unlocked them in the old system.

You keep repeating that and it’s not true. My guild and many other guilds like mine had +5 supplies unlocked and it’s gone now unless we get a guild hall and grind out all the upgrades to get it back. I can try talking to that temporarily disabled npc till I’m blue in the face, he won’t be giving me back my upgrade even though I had it unlocked.

So maybe instead of repeating your “upgrades aren’t lost” mantra, how about you start reading what other people are saying to you? Not every player wants banners!

Also, not every player wants to have to grind some pve maps to get the materials needed for upgrading guilds halls (silverwastes shovels, anyone?). That’s why the old influence system was superior to what we have now – you could play the content you enjoyed and were still able to upgrade your guild. Now, if you don’t like pve, you’re out of luck. And you keep acting as if the players who complain about the new system were unreasonable.

Guild halls could have been a nice addition to GW2, but instead we got a system that seems to be purely designed to be a gold and time sink.

He is being purposely daft and obtuse so that he can continue supporting anet when he knows he is wrong. I really wish we had a mute or ignore option on the forums, so we could hide certain players comments. I get very tired of being told that our opinion is wrong and we should just all be happy to play the way they tell us to.

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Posted by: Sungtaro.6493

Sungtaro.6493

Do you know what major issue with Silverwastes shovels is? You are grinding an old map with zero depth of gameplay. I am in a wvw guild. I am resigned to grinding a PvE map to get wvw upgrades.

What is particularly annoying is missing new content in PvE which at least has new scenery and some new mechanics so I can stand in a fort and do the same three events for hours on end.

Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence.

Small Guilds, stop complaining about GHls

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

From a purely factual standpoint, it is though. I’ve pretty meticulously laid out why. Influence costs scaled up as you unlocked things, but earning did not. Your ability to use your upgrades depended heavily on having larger guild populations and more highly active players on a daily basis.

{snip}

These are all statements of fact, not opinion.

Ummm… No, they’re not really. Banner A cost X. Much better Banner B cost Y. Think, oh, XP banner vs Heroes banner or something. The item costs were fixed, not scaled. Those are facts. They had nothing to do with the guild size. If you’d unlocked the pre-requisites & you had the influence, you could buy them.

Whether you think that’s better or worse than the system now? That’s opinion.

If you were a small guild, and you had & you did… You can’t now. Anet took that away. You’ve got to go through a huge grind to unlock the ability to purchase those consumables now; consumables that you had access to before. Now, once you’ve done that, it might well be that the cost for the consumable is the same whether you’re small or huge; X number of Y materials. But for Banner B, which you had access to prior to HoT, you have a kittening great wall to climb over to get the access that you had already unlocked once… Hard for a small guild.

Now that I understand your point a bit better, I think nothing has really changed. Instead of the wall of “I have access to this but need X amount to make it”, we have a wall of “I need X amount to access this, and then I can make it”. That isn’t easier for a small guild, it just puts the same effort in a different, earlier place. If you see what I mean?

No, you don’t have to go through a grind to unlock them if you already had them unlocked. That’s the central point of misinformation I keep seeing.

The acquisition method is only changed for guilds that didn’t already have access to these consumables.

If you had them unlocked previously, you walk in to the guild initiative, and hand the NPC some favor, though one poster has said that NPC is temporarily disabled, that’s how I have been spending all of the excess favor we don’t use for hall upgrades because it’s actually cheaper and faster than making them via the new scribing system, and that level of cheap and easy actually can’t be obtained by new guilds who hadn’t unlocked them in the old system.

You keep repeating that and it’s not true. My guild and many other guilds like mine had +5 supplies unlocked and it’s gone now unless we get a guild hall and grind out all the upgrades to get it back. I can try talking to that temporarily disabled npc till I’m blue in the face, he won’t be giving me back my upgrade even though I had it unlocked.

So maybe instead of repeating your “upgrades aren’t lost” mantra, how about you start reading what other people are saying to you? Not every player wants banners!

Also, not every player wants to have to grind some pve maps to get the materials needed for upgrading guilds halls (silverwastes shovels, anyone?). That’s why the old influence system was superior to what we have now – you could play the content you enjoyed and were still able to upgrade your guild. Now, if you don’t like pve, you’re out of luck. And you keep acting as if the players who complain about the new system were unreasonable.

Guild halls could have been a nice addition to GW2, but instead we got a system that seems to be purely designed to be a gold and time sink.

He is being purposely daft and obtuse so that he can continue supporting anet when he knows he is wrong. I really wish we had a mute or ignore option on the forums, so we could hide certain players comments. I get very tired of being told that our opinion is wrong and we should just all be happy to play the way they tell us to.

At no point did I state your opinion was wrong.

I said that stating your opinion as fact is wrong.

You’re entitled to hold whatever opinion you like, and I haven’t disputed any opinions. What I haven’t seen, however, are statements of fact to back up the presumption that, for a PvE guild, this system is worse than the old.

Saying you don’t like it is one thing. That’s an opinion. Saying it is actually worse is another. I don’t give a crap about supporting anet. They botched a large number of very important things with this expansion. The doing away with the influence system, however, is objectively not subjectively better for small guilds than the old system.

I must however clarify. Yes. This is in regards to PvE play.

I won’t go in to detail as to why as I have already expressed, several times, logical, factual, opinion-free evidence as to why.

I’m not being willfully obtuse to support arenanet. I’m stating my position as a person that runs a small guild because the old system was almost completely unusable for my guild, and the new one actually allows advancement and use of all its features.

Go ahead. Check my post history. You’ll find I have no interest in blindly supporting arenanet.

Your desire to personally attack and discredit me rather than respond to my position doesn’t make a lot of sense. I have as much right to state fact as you have to state opinion.

I get it. You liked the old system. There’s nothing wrong with that. It was passive, non-inrusive, and gave out guild benefits for free. That’s an understandable position and one of opinion.

I understand that people would rather not have to do upgrades related to halls now that halls control both the old and new upgrades. That’s also an understandable position, and one of opinion.

I also understand people are upset that the NPC that equalizes these concerns is currently disabled for whatever reason. That’s also and understandable position and one of opinion (and an opinion I share)

Influence disproportionally rewarded large guilds and penalized small ones based solely on member count and play time. The new system does not. These are not statements of opinion. These are statements of fact just as much as adding two and two equals four.

Yes. All arena and WvW upgrades need a serious look. Yes, wvw and PvP rewards need a serious look and have for a long time. Yes, silverwastes shovel costs for any guild are complete BS. No, influence was not better for small guilds of any type than the new system, no matter what sort of content was played. That isn’t an opinion. That is a fact.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

(edited by PopeUrban.2578)

Small Guilds, stop complaining about GHls

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Posted by: Auralae.7482

Auralae.7482

@PopeUrban: That argument is very tired. I could make banners two weeks ago. Now I cannot. I’m done with this as far as you’re concerned.

Yes. You can. Walk in to the guild initiative. Talk to the NPC. You now have a banner for favor.

Which NPC would that be? The Guild Requisitioner? He gives a message “This content has been temporarily disabled. Try again later.”

Then try again later?

Last two times I spoke with him he worked fine.

Complaining that the NPC is down for an adjustment is not the same as claiming “all my ability to use my old unlocks is gone forever”

And, honestly, every single post that parrots the same false assertion, that people can’t use their upgrades, has the same problem.

Sure, be upset that your access is temporarily suspended That’s a legitimate complaint and I agree with you. I’d like to know why he got temporarily disabled as I’ve used him as a source for banners while that horribly untested scribe is missing key components to actually produce banners. (Which, incidentally, is a far larger issue that actually blocks a production method for several things including tactics and decorations in addition to banners.)

However, this is just like when they temp disabled karma vendors or various other things. It’s as likely he’s being rewords to be even cheaper as it is he’s headed for the scrap heap. They didn’t go to the trouble of adding the NPC just to delete him a week later.

Using a temporary outage as a justification to rage against the entire system is just plain short sighted and silly.

What makes you think that I haven’t tried multiple times over different days? I have yet to see him working. There is a Reddit thread from 11 days ago asking why he’s disabled. The wiki previously listed the options he gives as having the disabled message. Now, the wiki simply lists nothing and he is still disabled.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Requisitioner

I have yet to see proof that banners and other previously attainable consumables are still available to a guild without needing HoT for the guildmaster. If there are non-HoT guildleaders without guild halls who have been able to access the requisitioner, I hope they post so I can figure out why I can not.

You are correct that the vendor is currently down.

However I personally used him the first two mission cycles after launch for banners. 10% XP/karma banners specifically. No, I did not personally attempt to buy one of every unlock as at that point I didn’t have the favor to burn and simply assumed it all worked just as well as the thing I did buy.

Until a red name posts that he is headed for the scrap yard, there’s no reason to assume that its anything more than a temporary outage born of some exploit. There are quite a few other things they disabled temporarily due to discovered exploits.

If your argument is, literally that this functionality doesn’t exist and never existed, I’ll say again that’s a very different thing than being upset it has been offline for an unreasonably long time.

For the record I agree with you. It has been offline for an unreasonably long time. I have excess favor piling up, I’d also like to use it like I had been previously, and I’ll be just as upset as you are if the vendor in question is in fact permanently removed.

Right, but my understanding is you own HoT, since you mentioned something about your guild hall. I said for non-HoT users. I thought my statement was pretty clear about that. I wasn’t making “an argument.” I’m asking if anyone who does not own HoT has been able to access the requisitioner to get banners. If you do not own HoT, sorry for that assumption and could you confirm whether you are HoT or non-HoT?

I’m just trying to find out if this functionality ever did work for those guildleaders who have not purchased HoT. If there’s a means for guilds to get what they previously could, such as banners and consumables, without being forced to purchase the xpac, then I have fewer issues with what Anet did with guilds.

(edited by Auralae.7482)

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

@PopeUrban: That argument is very tired. I could make banners two weeks ago. Now I cannot. I’m done with this as far as you’re concerned.

Yes. You can. Walk in to the guild initiative. Talk to the NPC. You now have a banner for favor.

Which NPC would that be? The Guild Requisitioner? He gives a message “This content has been temporarily disabled. Try again later.”

Then try again later?

Last two times I spoke with him he worked fine.

Complaining that the NPC is down for an adjustment is not the same as claiming “all my ability to use my old unlocks is gone forever”

And, honestly, every single post that parrots the same false assertion, that people can’t use their upgrades, has the same problem.

Sure, be upset that your access is temporarily suspended That’s a legitimate complaint and I agree with you. I’d like to know why he got temporarily disabled as I’ve used him as a source for banners while that horribly untested scribe is missing key components to actually produce banners. (Which, incidentally, is a far larger issue that actually blocks a production method for several things including tactics and decorations in addition to banners.)

However, this is just like when they temp disabled karma vendors or various other things. It’s as likely he’s being rewords to be even cheaper as it is he’s headed for the scrap heap. They didn’t go to the trouble of adding the NPC just to delete him a week later.

Using a temporary outage as a justification to rage against the entire system is just plain short sighted and silly.

What makes you think that I haven’t tried multiple times over different days? I have yet to see him working. There is a Reddit thread from 11 days ago asking why he’s disabled. The wiki previously listed the options he gives as having the disabled message. Now, the wiki simply lists nothing and he is still disabled.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Requisitioner

I have yet to see proof that banners and other previously attainable consumables are still available to a guild without needing HoT for the guildmaster. If there are non-HoT guildleaders without guild halls who have been able to access the requisitioner, I hope they post so I can figure out why I can not.

You are correct that the vendor is currently down.

However I personally used him the first two mission cycles after launch for banners. 10% XP/karma banners specifically. No, I did not personally attempt to buy one of every unlock as at that point I didn’t have the favor to burn and simply assumed it all worked just as well as the thing I did buy.

Until a red name posts that he is headed for the scrap yard, there’s no reason to assume that its anything more than a temporary outage born of some exploit. There are quite a few other things they disabled temporarily due to discovered exploits.

If your argument is, literally that this functionality doesn’t exist and never existed, I’ll say again that’s a very different thing than being upset it has been offline for an unreasonably long time.

For the record I agree with you. It has been offline for an unreasonably long time. I have excess favor piling up, I’d also like to use it like I had been previously, and I’ll be just as upset as you are if the vendor in question is in fact permanently removed.

Right, but my understanding is you own HoT, since you mentioned something about your guild hall. I said for non-HoT users. I thought my statement was pretty clear about that. I wasn’t making “an argument.” I’m asking if anyone who does not own HoT has been able to access the requisitioner to get banners. If you do not own HoT, sorry for that assumption and could you confirm whether you are HoT or non-HoT?

I’m just trying to find out if this functionality ever did work for those guildleaders who have not purchased HoT.

Ah, that’s something I couldn’t verify for you as I had preordered HoT, and thus never walked in to the building before HoT release.

I do know he’s present in the guild initiative, and everything in there with the notable exception of the expedition npcs (for obvious reasons) works without HoT though. I’d be interested (and kinda kittened) if the NPC they built specifically so that guilds had access to their old upgrades before getting a guild hall didn’t work for people who couldn’t actually claim one.

Be a pretty dumb NPC in that case for sure.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

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Posted by: Auralae.7482

Auralae.7482

@PopeUrban: That argument is very tired. I could make banners two weeks ago. Now I cannot. I’m done with this as far as you’re concerned.

Yes. You can. Walk in to the guild initiative. Talk to the NPC. You now have a banner for favor.

Which NPC would that be? The Guild Requisitioner? He gives a message “This content has been temporarily disabled. Try again later.”

Then try again later?

Last two times I spoke with him he worked fine.

Complaining that the NPC is down for an adjustment is not the same as claiming “all my ability to use my old unlocks is gone forever”

And, honestly, every single post that parrots the same false assertion, that people can’t use their upgrades, has the same problem.

Sure, be upset that your access is temporarily suspended That’s a legitimate complaint and I agree with you. I’d like to know why he got temporarily disabled as I’ve used him as a source for banners while that horribly untested scribe is missing key components to actually produce banners. (Which, incidentally, is a far larger issue that actually blocks a production method for several things including tactics and decorations in addition to banners.)

However, this is just like when they temp disabled karma vendors or various other things. It’s as likely he’s being rewords to be even cheaper as it is he’s headed for the scrap heap. They didn’t go to the trouble of adding the NPC just to delete him a week later.

Using a temporary outage as a justification to rage against the entire system is just plain short sighted and silly.

What makes you think that I haven’t tried multiple times over different days? I have yet to see him working. There is a Reddit thread from 11 days ago asking why he’s disabled. The wiki previously listed the options he gives as having the disabled message. Now, the wiki simply lists nothing and he is still disabled.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Requisitioner

I have yet to see proof that banners and other previously attainable consumables are still available to a guild without needing HoT for the guildmaster. If there are non-HoT guildleaders without guild halls who have been able to access the requisitioner, I hope they post so I can figure out why I can not.

You are correct that the vendor is currently down.

However I personally used him the first two mission cycles after launch for banners. 10% XP/karma banners specifically. No, I did not personally attempt to buy one of every unlock as at that point I didn’t have the favor to burn and simply assumed it all worked just as well as the thing I did buy.

Until a red name posts that he is headed for the scrap yard, there’s no reason to assume that its anything more than a temporary outage born of some exploit. There are quite a few other things they disabled temporarily due to discovered exploits.

If your argument is, literally that this functionality doesn’t exist and never existed, I’ll say again that’s a very different thing than being upset it has been offline for an unreasonably long time.

For the record I agree with you. It has been offline for an unreasonably long time. I have excess favor piling up, I’d also like to use it like I had been previously, and I’ll be just as upset as you are if the vendor in question is in fact permanently removed.

Right, but my understanding is you own HoT, since you mentioned something about your guild hall. I said for non-HoT users. I thought my statement was pretty clear about that. I wasn’t making “an argument.” I’m asking if anyone who does not own HoT has been able to access the requisitioner to get banners. If you do not own HoT, sorry for that assumption and could you confirm whether you are HoT or non-HoT?

I’m just trying to find out if this functionality ever did work for those guildleaders who have not purchased HoT.

Ah, that’s something I couldn’t verify for you as I had preordered HoT, and thus never walked in to the building before HoT release.

I do know he’s present in the guild initiative, and everything in there with the notable exception of the expedition npcs (for obvious reasons) works without HoT though. I’d be interested (and kinda kittened) if the NPC they built specifically so that guilds had access to their old upgrades before getting a guild hall didn’t work for people who couldn’t actually claim one.

Be a pretty dumb NPC in that case for sure.

Yeah. Just hoping someone would know. I mean, when he comes back up, I can work around it by passing leadership or getting the right permissions to one of my family members (3/5 of our accounts are HoT), but still annoying and I get kitteny on principle about functionality taken away and tied to an xpac.

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Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

I’m MG in my small and lovely guild and I don’t want a full and free Hall Guild. It’s not that we claim.
On GW1, I was MG in the same small guild and i remember that the hall was very expensive for us. But with the time (and gold coins!), we have bought all the ameliorations. It was possible but slowly -because we have done the choice to be small-.

On GW2, before HoT,create banners or ameliorations required points of influence. We won this points with lot of patience, account’s connexions and many activities (together or alone). But it was possible to be a small guild and to have fun like big guilds,it just took time. No problems. It was our choice for our confort.

Since HoT, the only way to gain points of favor is to play missions guild, that’s sometimes impossible for small guild by lack of online players.
So… do you suggest us to leave our small guild and joining a biggest? It’s your solution? Are you serious? Do you think the fun of this game is to have only big guilds? One model? One gameplay?

Having a guild hall is a privilege. Right. We have bought the extension for it, so we should have the right to obtain it too. No preference about the cost in gold coins, this system existed on GW1 and veterants players knew that. Small guilds must be patients to complete their hall.
But WHY it needs points of favor who can only be won on missions guild? Why only this way?

There are also small mission doable for a small group of payers. You will make slower progress (however, you said that was not a problem) because you cannot do all missions available. But you can still make progress. or what am I missing?

Well, for a start, a “small group” of players isn’t just one player alone, is it?

Previously, I could (slowly) level my bank guild, by just playing normally, on my own.

Now I can’t; simple as that.

Not only that, but I have just lost the 10K influence I had already spent on an upgrade and the other 2.5 – 3K (maybe slightly higher) influence I was on, which I intended to use to build the final bank upgrade.

It’s just gone.

Maybe some people don’t care?

Maybe some people don’t think anyone should be able to build up a guild alone, in this game?

Even though it’s a game where you can join up to 5 guilds, simultaneously.

So, being able to do so shouldn’t (and didn’t) stop anyone joining bigger guilds, as well.

But, either way, that is the situation we are in and some of us are less than impressed.

ETA: You know what?

I’m just sick of this kitten in games, lately.

I came here from WoW, where I spent months fruitlessly trying to persuade them to reinstate things like LFR difficulty and rewards, personal loot and flying at max level.

I’m sick of being expected to beg for things we had previously and that were removed for no good reason and to the detriment of the game, as a whole.

It’s NOT OK and it is also not the job of people like me to have to try to make developers see sense, when they appear to have lost the plot entirely.

This is not why we play games.

It sucks that you lost abilities you had before. That said, we are talking about guilds here, not personal housing.

Basically you complain that you can build up your guild-hall all by yourself. Well your not supposed to, thats why it’s considered a guild-hall, not personal housing.

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Posted by: Glacial Singer.1573

Glacial Singer.1573

We all paid money for the game, and equal access to all benifits should be provided.
Just because a guild is small, is no excuse…………. Guilds Matter……….

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Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

We all paid money for the game, and equal access to all benifits should be provided.
Just because a guild is small, is no excuse…………. Guilds Matter……….

That is the same as saying all raids should be able to be done alone.

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Posted by: GreyWolf.8670

GreyWolf.8670

We all paid money for the game, and equal access to all benifits should be provided.
Just because a guild is small, is no excuse…………. Guilds Matter……….

That is the same as saying all raids should be able to be done alone.

No, it’s not at all. The argument with small guilds would be closer to “you get no experience except in raids” because that’s exactly what it is.

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Posted by: Labjax.2465

Labjax.2465

I think it’s best to give up arguing the point. Anet has made it clear that they consider a tiny group to barely even count as a group, much less a guild. They want people to zerg together, I guess.

And it’s not worth the time and energy arguing with all the people who insist that it’s fine for inexplicable reasons, when many of those same people are probably yawning in a big guild, getting benefits from the work of tons of other people.

I remember in the raiding game I used to play, every so often, you’d see one of those people who played in a hardcore-ish guild and acted like they were god’s gift to creation, but if you got in a raid with them, their skill level was incredibly mediocre. I imagine it’s much the same thing here. Lot of people who think they’re amazing because their guild has good progress, when they’re mostly being carried.

Or words to that effect.

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Posted by: JediYoda.1275

JediYoda.1275

No, influence was not better for small guilds of any type than the new system, no matter what sort of content was played. That isn’t an opinion. That is a fact.

That is opinion, not fact,

“If only ANet had some kind of forum they could use to communicate with us……”
“ANet. They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity to not mess up.”
Mod “Posts created to cause unrest with unfounded claims are not allowed” lmao

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Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

I think it’s best to give up arguing the point. Anet has made it clear that they consider a tiny group to barely even count as a group, much less a guild. They want people to zerg together, I guess.

And it’s not worth the time and energy arguing with all the people who insist that it’s fine for inexplicable reasons, when many of those same people are probably yawning in a big guild, getting benefits from the work of tons of other people.

I remember in the raiding game I used to play, every so often, you’d see one of those people who played in a hardcore-ish guild and acted like they were god’s gift to creation, but if you got in a raid with them, their skill level was incredibly mediocre. I imagine it’s much the same thing here. Lot of people who think they’re amazing because their guild has good progress, when they’re mostly being carried.

No, I for example made a suggestion that would help smaller guilds (lower required level, so smaller guilds can focus on one element). When that is done I think the system is good for bigger and for smaller guilds.

But when I see a complain then somebody basically is unable to build a hall all by himself then I think it’s taking it a little to far.

There is a big difference between big guilds (500) and small guilds imho (15). But if you than start talking about personal guilds you take it to completely other level, outside the realm of guilds.

It then has nothing to do with those in big guilds thinking they were god’s gift. Suggesting that only makes you look a little silly imho.

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Posted by: Labjax.2465

Labjax.2465

It then has nothing to do with those in big guilds thinking they were god’s gift. Suggesting that only makes you look a little silly imho.

I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Talking about size 15 or talking about size 2 doesn’t automatically change the attitude of the sort of people I was referring to. It makes no difference to them. They are interested in using the efforts of their team to lift themselves up and brag. That’s their shtick.

Or words to that effect.

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Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

It then has nothing to do with those in big guilds thinking they were god’s gift. Suggesting that only makes you look a little silly imho.

I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Talking about size 15 or talking about size 2 doesn’t automatically change the attitude of the sort of people I was referring to. It makes no difference to them. They are interested in using the efforts of their team to lift themselves up and brag. That’s their shtick.

It’s a huge difference, it’s the difference between just wanting to brag (as you put it) or just having a founded opinion about what guilds are supposed to be.

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Posted by: Labjax.2465

Labjax.2465

It’s a huge difference, it’s the difference between just wanting to brag (as you put it) or just having a founded opinion about what guilds are supposed to be.

It’s clear you’re not following what I’m saying.

It appears that what you are saying is “if someone doesn’t want smaller guilds to have as good a chance as larger ones, then they fit the example Labjax made about people who want to show off. If someone doesn’t want micro guilds to have a chance at all, then they cannot fit that example. They are just being reasonable.”

Is that about right?

If so, it’s a total distortion of what I meant. Not everyone who wants to keep GH mechanics as they are is the “brags and doesn’t put in effort anywhere near the level of self importance they have” type. People who do act like that usually do it with some consistency. They don’t suddenly lose interest in bragging and posturing because the topic shifts from (for example) smaller guilds to micro guilds, or vice-versa.

I was definitely not handing out cannon fodder to play the “subjective opinions are objective” game.

Or words to that effect.

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Posted by: Swift.1930

Swift.1930

I for one would like to see Anet add smaller halls as options for smaller guilds – and scaling services/utilities accordingly.

I still remember guild halls in GW1; they didn’t take much at all to purchase/maintain/upgrade. Certainly gold (or rather, platinum), but everyone accumulates that. Not sure why the mechanic changed so much, since it’s the same world/lore/setting. Seriously, this is Guild Wars, not just Alliance Wars or Server Wars; there should be more support for continued guild play for guilds of all sizes.

For you big-guild chaps: come on, you don’t need to act so important. Glad you’ve got a big guild. Good for you. You’re probably getting the best-optimized experience.
For you little-guild/bank-guild chaps: yeah, you’ll probably always be hamstrung by the fact that you need a few more than 1-10 people to get serious progress without being left far behind. If Anet does ignore you, you might need to look into recruiting…
For the rest of us: we ought to be urging Anet to improve gameplay for everyone. It shouldn’t be about giant complaints or about flaming people who suggest changes, it should be about constructive criticism. Glad to see that most people do include legitimate suggestions.

Been there, punned that.

Ehmry Bay Guardian

(edited by Swift.1930)

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Posted by: shadow.6174

shadow.6174

@PopeUrban: That argument is very tired. I could make banners two weeks ago. Now I cannot. I’m done with this as far as you’re concerned.

Yes. You can. Walk in to the guild initiative. Talk to the NPC. You now have a banner for favor.

Which NPC would that be? The Guild Requisitioner? He gives a message “This content has been temporarily disabled. Try again later.”

Then try again later?

Last two times I spoke with him he worked fine.

Complaining that the NPC is down for an adjustment is not the same as claiming “all my ability to use my old unlocks is gone forever”

And, honestly, every single post that parrots the same false assertion, that people can’t use their upgrades, has the same problem.

Sure, be upset that your access is temporarily suspended That’s a legitimate complaint and I agree with you. I’d like to know why he got temporarily disabled as I’ve used him as a source for banners while that horribly untested scribe is missing key components to actually produce banners. (Which, incidentally, is a far larger issue that actually blocks a production method for several things including tactics and decorations in addition to banners.)

However, this is just like when they temp disabled karma vendors or various other things. It’s as likely he’s being rewords to be even cheaper as it is he’s headed for the scrap heap. They didn’t go to the trouble of adding the NPC just to delete him a week later.

Using a temporary outage as a justification to rage against the entire system is just plain short sighted and silly.

What makes you think that I haven’t tried multiple times over different days? I have yet to see him working. There is a Reddit thread from 11 days ago asking why he’s disabled. The wiki previously listed the options he gives as having the disabled message. Now, the wiki simply lists nothing and he is still disabled.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Requisitioner

I have yet to see proof that banners and other previously attainable consumables are still available to a guild without needing HoT for the guildmaster. If there are non-HoT guildleaders without guild halls who have been able to access the requisitioner, I hope they post so I can figure out why I can not.

You are correct that the vendor is currently down.

However I personally used him the first two mission cycles after launch for banners. 10% XP/karma banners specifically. No, I did not personally attempt to buy one of every unlock as at that point I didn’t have the favor to burn and simply assumed it all worked just as well as the thing I did buy.

Until a red name posts that he is headed for the scrap yard, there’s no reason to assume that its anything more than a temporary outage born of some exploit. There are quite a few other things they disabled temporarily due to discovered exploits.

If your argument is, literally that this functionality doesn’t exist and never existed, I’ll say again that’s a very different thing than being upset it has been offline for an unreasonably long time.

For the record I agree with you. It has been offline for an unreasonably long time. I have excess favor piling up, I’d also like to use it like I had been previously, and I’ll be just as upset as you are if the vendor in question is in fact permanently removed.

Right, but my understanding is you own HoT, since you mentioned something about your guild hall. I said for non-HoT users. I thought my statement was pretty clear about that. I wasn’t making “an argument.” I’m asking if anyone who does not own HoT has been able to access the requisitioner to get banners. If you do not own HoT, sorry for that assumption and could you confirm whether you are HoT or non-HoT?

I’m just trying to find out if this functionality ever did work for those guildleaders who have not purchased HoT.

Ah, that’s something I couldn’t verify for you as I had preordered HoT, and thus never walked in to the building before HoT release.

I do know he’s present in the guild initiative, and everything in there with the notable exception of the expedition npcs (for obvious reasons) works without HoT though. I’d be interested (and kinda kittened) if the NPC they built specifically so that guilds had access to their old upgrades before getting a guild hall didn’t work for people who couldn’t actually claim one.

Be a pretty dumb NPC in that case for sure.

Yeah. Just hoping someone would know. I mean, when he comes back up, I can work around it by passing leadership or getting the right permissions to one of my family members (3/5 of our accounts are HoT), but still annoying and I get kitteny on principle about functionality taken away and tied to an xpac.

Maybe this would help to clarify this…

Guild Halls

  • The Guild Initiative Headquarters in Lion’s Arch is now open to guilds.
    • Have a ranking member of your guild with the Purchase Upgrades permission speak to the guild registrar to unlock your grandfathered upgrades in the new progression. You’ll also be rewarded with one or more guild hall decorations to commemorate your mastery of the old guild system.
  • Guild upgrades* *are now purchased from proprietors—special NPCs in the Guild Initiative Headquarters and in guild halls. Speak with the notary at the Guild Initiative Headquarters to start purchasing new upgrades.
    • Influence has been retired but can still be spent at certain vendors in the Guild Initiative Headquarters and in the guild hall to give a small boost to progress through the new guild system.

Although it’s mentioned under Guild Halls section it says the NPCs will be available at Lion’s Arch too. It doesn’t explain why the NPC is currently disabled but it shows that theose NPCs were supposed to be used for purchasing upgrades.

About it being available to those with HoT or not… well, I don’t see a reason for having them also at Lion’s Arch other than making it accessible for those with no Guild Halls, either due not claiming one or not being able to claim one (not owning HoT). I think it makes clear that those NPCs was supposed to be used for those not owning HoT too.

However, that patch notes aren’t clear about what requires HoT and what doesn’t. I can’t state for sure if the first time I interacted with those NPC was before I got HoT, but I can state that I could use them normally the first time I interacted with them, that was a few days after HoT came out and I didn’t pre-purchase HoT.

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Posted by: Auralae.7482

Auralae.7482

@PopeUrban: That argument is very tired. I could make banners two weeks ago. Now I cannot. I’m done with this as far as you’re concerned.

Yes. You can. Walk in to the guild initiative. Talk to the NPC. You now have a banner for favor.

Which NPC would that be? The Guild Requisitioner? He gives a message “This content has been temporarily disabled. Try again later.”

Then try again later?

Last two times I spoke with him he worked fine.

Complaining that the NPC is down for an adjustment is not the same as claiming “all my ability to use my old unlocks is gone forever”

And, honestly, every single post that parrots the same false assertion, that people can’t use their upgrades, has the same problem.

Sure, be upset that your access is temporarily suspended That’s a legitimate complaint and I agree with you. I’d like to know why he got temporarily disabled as I’ve used him as a source for banners while that horribly untested scribe is missing key components to actually produce banners. (Which, incidentally, is a far larger issue that actually blocks a production method for several things including tactics and decorations in addition to banners.)

However, this is just like when they temp disabled karma vendors or various other things. It’s as likely he’s being rewords to be even cheaper as it is he’s headed for the scrap heap. They didn’t go to the trouble of adding the NPC just to delete him a week later.

Using a temporary outage as a justification to rage against the entire system is just plain short sighted and silly.

What makes you think that I haven’t tried multiple times over different days? I have yet to see him working. There is a Reddit thread from 11 days ago asking why he’s disabled. The wiki previously listed the options he gives as having the disabled message. Now, the wiki simply lists nothing and he is still disabled.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Requisitioner

I have yet to see proof that banners and other previously attainable consumables are still available to a guild without needing HoT for the guildmaster. If there are non-HoT guildleaders without guild halls who have been able to access the requisitioner, I hope they post so I can figure out why I can not.

You are correct that the vendor is currently down.

However I personally used him the first two mission cycles after launch for banners. 10% XP/karma banners specifically. No, I did not personally attempt to buy one of every unlock as at that point I didn’t have the favor to burn and simply assumed it all worked just as well as the thing I did buy.

Until a red name posts that he is headed for the scrap yard, there’s no reason to assume that its anything more than a temporary outage born of some exploit. There are quite a few other things they disabled temporarily due to discovered exploits.

If your argument is, literally that this functionality doesn’t exist and never existed, I’ll say again that’s a very different thing than being upset it has been offline for an unreasonably long time.

For the record I agree with you. It has been offline for an unreasonably long time. I have excess favor piling up, I’d also like to use it like I had been previously, and I’ll be just as upset as you are if the vendor in question is in fact permanently removed.

Right, but my understanding is you own HoT, since you mentioned something about your guild hall. I said for non-HoT users. I thought my statement was pretty clear about that. I wasn’t making “an argument.” I’m asking if anyone who does not own HoT has been able to access the requisitioner to get banners. If you do not own HoT, sorry for that assumption and could you confirm whether you are HoT or non-HoT?

I’m just trying to find out if this functionality ever did work for those guildleaders who have not purchased HoT.

Ah, that’s something I couldn’t verify for you as I had preordered HoT, and thus never walked in to the building before HoT release.

I do know he’s present in the guild initiative, and everything in there with the notable exception of the expedition npcs (for obvious reasons) works without HoT though. I’d be interested (and kinda kittened) if the NPC they built specifically so that guilds had access to their old upgrades before getting a guild hall didn’t work for people who couldn’t actually claim one.

Be a pretty dumb NPC in that case for sure.

Yeah. Just hoping someone would know. I mean, when he comes back up, I can work around it by passing leadership or getting the right permissions to one of my family members (3/5 of our accounts are HoT), but still annoying and I get kitteny on principle about functionality taken away and tied to an xpac.

Maybe this would help to clarify this…

Guild Halls

  • The Guild Initiative Headquarters in Lion’s Arch is now open to guilds.
    • Have a ranking member of your guild with the Purchase Upgrades permission speak to the guild registrar to unlock your grandfathered upgrades in the new progression. You’ll also be rewarded with one or more guild hall decorations to commemorate your mastery of the old guild system.
  • Guild upgrades* *are now purchased from proprietors—special NPCs in the Guild Initiative Headquarters and in guild halls. Speak with the notary at the Guild Initiative Headquarters to start purchasing new upgrades.
    • Influence has been retired but can still be spent at certain vendors in the Guild Initiative Headquarters and in the guild hall to give a small boost to progress through the new guild system.

Although it’s mentioned under Guild Halls section it says the NPCs will be available at Lion’s Arch too. It doesn’t explain why the NPC is currently disabled but it shows that theose NPCs were supposed to be used for purchasing upgrades.

About it being available to those with HoT or not… well, I don’t see a reason for having them also at Lion’s Arch other than making it accessible for those with no Guild Halls, either due not claiming one or not being able to claim one (not owning HoT). I think it makes clear that those NPCs was supposed to be used for those not owning HoT too.

However, that patch notes aren’t clear about what requires HoT and what doesn’t. I can’t state for sure if the first time I interacted with those NPC was before I got HoT, but I can state that I could use them normally the first time I interacted with them, that was a few days after HoT came out and I didn’t pre-purchase HoT.

Thanks. I need to check again since this most recent patch to see if maybe things are working. Several weeks ago, I did speak to the NPC outside to unlock and set up the guild level and get entry to the hall and have checked every NPC inside multiple times.

I really hope this functionality is working now or will be working soon. I don’t see a reason why it shouldn’t be available to non-HoT users either. I’m just concerned because I haven’t seen anyone without HoT post that they were able to access back when it was working.

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Posted by: Sebi.4398

Sebi.4398

Hi

Sorry I know this is a bit of a late reply to this thread but I have read the 4 pages of comments and felt the need to reply.

A of comments on here referring to big guilds as the way forward yet people seem to be completely missing the point, as I believe do anet.

Every big guild once started out as a small guild. If you take away the ability for a small guild to become a big guild,which I am convinced this new system does for all the obvious reasons, then there will be no new big guilds created.

This of course means that as the current big guilds break up and disappear as most guilds do then there will be no new big guilds to take their place. Ultimately this means the death of guilds in gw2 with this new guild system in place.

I must admit I am staggered that anet. 1. Cannot see this obvious conclusion and 2. Implemented this system which in my view goes completely against what gw2 stands for and I might add has made it hugely successful.

You only need to look at what happened to wows sub numbers after they introduced needless grind behind gated content to know what’s in store for gw2 if this system persists in its current form.

Gw2 was about freedom to “play your way”. It needs to get back to what made it successful before it’s too late.

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Posted by: Loading.4503

Loading.4503

I didn’t read through this thread, just skimmed through it, so I’m not sure if this was brought up here or another thread, I had a suggestion for that. Maybe guild hall upgrades can be scaled with however many members for the cost, and if the guild grows, the upgrades will be closed off and you’ll have to dump in more gold/materials before its accessesable again.

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Posted by: Sarrs.4831

Sarrs.4831

You only need to look at what happened to wows sub numbers after they introduced needless grind behind gated content to know what’s in store for gw2 if this system persists in its current form.

…They went up significantly? TBC was the grindiest expansion and it experienced constant growth. Since Blizzard started adding heavy-duty catchup mechanics in late Wrath, the population growth begun to level off, and the more catchup mechanics they added, the lower sub numbers went.

I didn’t read through this thread, just skimmed through it, so I’m not sure if this was brought up here or another thread, I had a suggestion for that. Maybe guild hall upgrades can be scaled with however many members for the cost, and if the guild grows, the upgrades will be closed off and you’ll have to dump in more gold/materials before its accessesable again.

Seems like a very easy thing to exploit.

Just off the top of my head; assume the guild has the member cap of 500. Their costs are therefore massive. The GM organizes a second guild which will only ever have the smallest number of people in it (say, five). Guild members send money and resources to those five people, they build their guild hall for a fraction of the cost, and once it’s finished the entire guild transfers into the new, fully upgraded guild.

Nalhadia – Kaineng

(edited by Sarrs.4831)

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Posted by: Tigaseye.2047

Tigaseye.2047

…They went up significantly? TBC was the grindiest expansion and it experienced constant growth. Since Blizzard started adding heavy-duty catchup mechanics in late Wrath, the population growth begun to level off, and the more catchup mechanics they added, the lower sub numbers went.

He’s, clearly, talking about far more recently than TBC.

TBC was the first xpac, the game was still new and shiny and no one knew any better.

Therefore, it was going to succeed, pretty much whatever it made players do.

As opposed to late Wrath/early Cata, where the game was ageing and Cata was not really a popular xpac, in general.

In fact, it was probably the least popular WoW xpac ever produced.

Until WoD, that is…

…and much as I loved Uldum, even I can see why that was the case.

So, basically, you’re comparing apples and oranges and then jumping to (unproven) conclusions about why people stayed, or left, in each case.

The problem in games, ATM, is this trend to arbitrarily remove stuff, that people have got used to having and go back to a more primitive, punitive system.

It’s just, basic, human psychology that we expect things to be added to and for things to be made better, over time.

Not for things to be removed and made worse, again.

Even if we were satisfied with the older thing(s), at the time, as we had never experienced the improvements.

That’s not to say that you can’t, say, carefully streamline things, that were clumsily designed in the first place and/or have become overbloated over time.

Like, for example, 10 years worth of added (and never pruned) abilities, or only-one-right-answer, red herring-filled, talent trees.

But, to just remove things at random, especially good things and drive people back into the dark ages of a game (or of gaming, in general) is never going to be popular with the average person.

As human nature is to gradually evolve, not to devolve.

“Turns out when people play the game, they don’t admire your feet at all.” sephiroth

(edited by Tigaseye.2047)

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Posted by: Auralae.7482

Auralae.7482

Since this thread was bumped, I will go ahead and confirm that guild requisitioner is working again and can be accessed by guild leaders who do not have HoT.

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

Since this thread was bumped, I will go ahead and confirm that guild requisitioner is working again and can be accessed by guild leaders who do not have HoT.

Great to hear!

We’ve sort of moved past the need for him, but I’m happy to know that he’s up and running again so people can use their pre-HoT upgrades before they do the new GH upgrades.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

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Posted by: shadow.6174

shadow.6174

Gw2 was about freedom to “play your way”. It needs to get back to what made it successful before it’s too late.

I couldn’t agree more… on past months (maybe more than a year) the most of the changes seems to be against that. I believe since that September Feature Pack (yeah I look mainly at you NPE…) things began to slowly go to the opposite direction.

The problem in games, ATM, is this trend to arbitrarily remove stuff, that people have got used to having and go back to a more primitive, punitive system.

It’s just, basic, human psychology that we expect things to be added to and for things to be made better, over time.

Not for things to be removed and made worse, again.

Even if we were satisfied with the older thing(s), at the time, as we had never experienced the improvements.

That’s not to say that you can’t, say, carefully streamline things, that were clumsily designed in the first place and/or have become overbloated over time.

Like, for example, 10 years worth of added (and never pruned) abilities, or only-one-right-answer, red herring-filled, talent trees.

But, to just remove things at random, especially good things and drive people back into the dark ages of a game (or of gaming, in general) is never going to be popular with the average person.

As human nature is to gradually evolve, not to devolve.

NPE? :P I also can’t agree more with the above. And you know what? It’s a trend not around games only, I have seen several software companies out there doing the same by locking out features previously available saying it was for “streamline’s sake”.

(edited by shadow.6174)

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Posted by: Shukriyya.7629

Shukriyya.7629

I didn’t read through this thread, just skimmed through it, so I’m not sure if this was brought up here or another thread, I had a suggestion for that. Maybe guild hall upgrades can be scaled with however many members for the cost, and if the guild grows, the upgrades will be closed off and you’ll have to dump in more gold/materials before its accessesable again.

Seems like a very easy thing to exploit.

Just off the top of my head; assume the guild has the member cap of 500. Their costs are therefore massive. The GM organizes a second guild which will only ever have the smallest number of people in it (say, five). Guild members send money and resources to those five people, they build their guild hall for a fraction of the cost, and once it’s finished the entire guild transfers into the new, fully upgraded guild.

How would this be easy to exploit when, as the poster stated, if the guild grows, the upgrades will be closed off and you’ll have to dump in more gold/materials before its accessesable again? Do you think big guilds want cheap halls without any functions?

RoF

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Posted by: SkyShroud.2865

SkyShroud.2865

thread digger……

try this
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/GW2-is-No-Longer-a-Refuge

whatever you guys are continuing arguing, it is already debated in that thread.

Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com

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Posted by: shadow.6174

shadow.6174

thread digger……

try this
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/GW2-is-No-Longer-a-Refuge

whatever you guys are continuing arguing, it is already debated in that thread.

Well, just this thread started first :P

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Posted by: Iason Evan.3806

Iason Evan.3806

I wonder how Chris Whiteside would have handled Guilds.

Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall

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Posted by: MadRabbit.3179

MadRabbit.3179

I get it Guild Halls are ridiculously expensive and almost impossible for small guilds to obtain and upgrade.

That was the point from the very start. People knew it was gonna be expensive so why all the complaining?

Guild halls are suppose to be meant mainly for large guilds. Why? Incentive.
Let’s be honest in a large guild, if a person gets kicked not many people are gonna care. If its a higher up or an officer there may be some drama but people get over it. If its someone of the lower ranks the people kicking and many of the other members wouldn’t really care. This is the downside of a large guild who don’t have the emotional/personal incentive of a small guild.

Smaller guilds are a tightly knit unit that have grown strong bonds as they have grown attached to the other members as there only a few so its easy to know everyone and be friends with them. And you could have a fully upgraded guild too if you pulled enough money which was not hard to earn pre-HoT. So why join a large guild when you can be a small guild with your close friends? Benefits from the large guilds.

Large Guilds have numbers and vast amount of resources to back up their large numbers/presence. With the old guild system the incentive of repping and earning influence for large guilds meant 24 hour buffs like exp, karma, harvesting, wvw upgrades, etc. But even small guilds could accomplish this feat pretty easily if they earned enough and farmed things and did events together which they most likely did as they would do everything together.

With the new guild system the only way to keep members from constantly leaving (or at least to constantly recruit to fill those that left) is the guild hall and its various upgrades. So of course large guild will get those upgrades and flesh out their guild hall easier and faster than the small guilds.

If you really want a fully upgraded guild hall and those buffs and stuff, merge into a big guild. If you don’t like them or how they conduct things, leave. Otherwise don’t complain about a system that was clearly intended from the very beginning to benefit to large guilds hold their communities together. Guild Halls are suppose to represent the effort of hundreds of players and their dedication to the guild as a whole.

tl;dr GH meant for large guilds not for small guilds

Only problem is this continue bullkitten, since if they wanted to design it for both types of guilds. They could have.

It could be tied directly into completing guild missions and then scaled so it took 9 months to complete.

But, they didn’t, since their agenda in HoT is less about the enjoyment of their game by their player base, but rather fixing their own broken economy via numerous insane economic dumps that penalize players.

Rehabilitated Elementalist. Now, trolling the Thief forums with my math.

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Posted by: Mez Koo.9510

Mez Koo.9510

I actually like our guild hall for small guild. We each actually feel like we are helping upgrade it instead of most large guilds where the rich leaders are the only ones really upgrading it.

I guess it’s a problem if its a small casual guild, our guild isn’t really rich but we do have the means to gather the materials, we might not get everything but it’s about going step by step.

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Posted by: QTwo.6824

QTwo.6824

They could have as MadRabbit says, but they did not. It seems that they are pushing for people to work together in ever larger groups with HoT and the total WvW workover just to provide fodder for their ESport aspirations while putting consideration for smaller groups and solo players on the back burner. While playing in HoT recently, there was a small guild advertising for and offering payment for extra players to come help them with getting a guild hall. For my part when they put some things guild related out of reach that were paid for using cash to gems to guild related purchases, at that point I stopped spending.