Guild Wars 2

There have been many threads on here complaining about the stage IV Hope .. yet within hours of one appearing on Reddit there’s an Anet reply saying they’ll look into it:

MattP:

I’ll start taking a look to see how we can get it changed up quickly.

https://np.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3xsxhd/the_hope_iv_collection_is_alienating_the_player/cy7u0e3?context=1000

I guess even Devs are busy

Mikewonton
(Snip) “This is the same story for everyone who has HOPE including myself, what makes this post any different from the dozens of posts on reddit and the official forums (including mine lol) that promoted you to start taking a look? The write up is essentially the same length and detail as others imo, many were posted before you announced that you’ll be making fixes to the precursor system and many more were posted afterwards.”(snip)

anet_mattp
I’ve seen this brought up a couple of times over the last week or two, but have been buried under other work. This one happened to pop up while I had some down time and was looking for a place to respond about it.

They already kinda addressed this on the forums

Gaile Gray.6029:

• Fix issues that encourage toxic play or interactions. No collectible should be gated behind failed events, or mechanics that make you upset that another player is playing a specific way. Unfortunately these things take longer to fix and test around the fixes (don’t want to break something else on accident), so the turn around will be slower

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Update-on-Legendary-Collections-More

MattP also primarily uses Reddit over the forums as that is what he’s most familiar with. He’s also posting on his own time when he could be doing other things. If your company had forums, would you really be posting on them after you left work for the day?

One of the biggest complaints that I see is that the devs are not communicating enough. We have one that is trying their best to do so but is then criticized for using something other than the GW2 forums. What if he started using the GW2 forums all of the time? What would the next complaint be then? This is not the way to foster an environment for the devs to actively communicate with the players when all that’s going to happen is that they get criticized for how they choose to communicate or have it turned against them (as has happened in the past).

What will the next complaint be? I’m willing to $*(%&ing FIND OUT. Because the prospect of future complaints doesn’t let you ignore current ones.

They have got to get this reddit thing sorted. It’s making their official boards a laughingstock.

Why must they be required to post on the GW2 forums? They use all forms of social media so there’s no reason for everything to be restricted to these forums.

“anet_mattp 1 point an hour ago
I’ve seen this brought up a couple of times over the last week or two, but have been buried under other work. This one happened to pop up while I had some down time and was looking for a place to respond about it.”

How about the game forum? ROFL.

Wth? I can imagine him thinking, “Hmm, gee.. where can I write this stuff.??”

Why? Because look at the dev tracker here. Its a wasteland. This is their own OFFICIAL outlet for information and we’re seeing VASTLY better responsiveness and communication out of house.

Do I blame the Devs over on reddit? No (other than Colin, who ought to know better). Something has gone systemically wrong at ANet that the individual Devs are not thinking “I should check my own house, first and foremost.”

Does it mean some training around the office? Almost certainly. Do they need to get less barbaric forum software? Yeah, probably. Do they need to ease off on restrictions that are driving their people to not post here? Ya think? There’s room for improvement on a whole bunch of fronts.

Ayrilana.1396:

Why must they be required to post on the GW2 forums? They use all forms of social media so there’s no reason for everything to be restricted to these forums.

Social Media is a good tool if properly utilized.

However when you already have a direct form of communication for game based issues, they should stay there (AKA the forums).

Now yes the forums are a joke, see the search feature….or the lack their of. See the numerous duplicate topics/mega merged threads and the lack of interaction due to how it’s been for the most part left to rot.

It’s perfectly fine for the devs to have more open discourse elsewhere without the fear of too much backlash, it’s not fine to ignore pressing community issues on the community forums for fear of being fired.

Pretty sure that sums up a vast majority of the problems with why people dislike the current state of both media platforms.

TexZero.7910:

It’s perfectly fine for the devs to have more open discourse elsewhere without the fear of too much backlash, it’s not fine to ignore pressing community issues on the community forums for fear of being fired.

This. But that fear is more than legitimate given past incidents and the current affairs on the forums. I mean, look at the nasty way people respond every time Gaile posts anything.

Heck, if I was an ANet developer I wouldn’t post here either.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

This. But that fear is more than legitimate given past incidents and the current affairs on the forums. I mean, look at the nasty way people respond every time Gaile posts anything.

If you can’t manage to give a good showing in your own front yard while you hold every imaginable card in terms of time to prep, inside knowledge, and an absolute stranglehold on moderation, you’re DOING IT WRONG.

Heck, if I was an ANet developer I wouldn’t post here either.

And you’d be watching opinion surrounding your livelihood fester too.

People just need to mature a little on the forums and the devs will come back. I am glad they post on reddit where not thread crying about X again makes it to front page.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

TexZero.7910:

It’s perfectly fine for the devs to have more open discourse elsewhere without the fear of too much backlash, it’s not fine to ignore pressing community issues on the community forums for fear of being fired.

This. But that fear is more than legitimate given past incidents and the current affairs on the forums. I mean, look at the nasty way people respond every time Gaile posts anything.

Heck, if I was an ANet developer I wouldn’t post here either.

You know, there might be some sorta reason why people are shooting the messenger currently. No disrespect meant toward Gaile at all she’s doing what she can given what she’s allowed.

But there is ultimately only so much she can do given the policies in place that have lead us to this spot.

Granted open communication was tried before and it worked, we’ve seen it work countless times. When it fails to work however is when the silence starts. I get that the devs are busy people, have lives etc…. But give that, they have enough time to post on reddit, i think its fair to say the same time could be invested into their forums or heck even the communication policies that are causing the issues to arise.

I mean there’s a whole community team, if they aren’t seeing these issues and pushing for changes then what is it they are doing ?

ROFL.

They avoid off. forums because people are snarky? They cannot be that precious, surely. They run a business, lol . No words…

Exxcalibur.6203:

ROFL.

They avoid off. forums because people are snarky? They cannot be that precious, surely. They run a business, lol . No words…

We can start going to the Reddit too.

Given the toxicity (as opposed to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism) that pervades these forums most of the time I can hardly blame them.
Besides, is it really THAT difficult for people to check into Reddit?
Hell, even some of the best user-created information is there. When I’m researching builds, I almost always end up on Reddit….

Artemis Noir.3804:

Given the toxicity (as opposed to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism) that pervades these forums most of the time I can hardly blame them.
Besides, is it really THAT difficult for people to check into Reddit?
Hell, even some of the best user-created information is there. When I’m researching builds, I almost always end up on Reddit….

You know that the toxicity people talk about, really didn’t exist until we had massive voids in communication stemming from the change in policy right ?

TexZero.7910:

Artemis Noir.3804:

Given the toxicity (as opposed to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism) that pervades these forums most of the time I can hardly blame them.
Besides, is it really THAT difficult for people to check into Reddit?
Hell, even some of the best user-created information is there. When I’m researching builds, I almost always end up on Reddit….

You know that the toxicity people talk about, really didn’t exist until we had massive voids in communication stemming from the change in policy right ?

Really? I have played this game since launch, and I well recall that within about a month people started with the self-entitled whining. Don’t misunderstand me, I don’t have an issue with people offering criticism on a product, this is necessary. Moreover, there are things that irk me about the game as well. However, none of that gives people license to be uncivil kitten s.

Seeing the recent glut of meeeh topics on the forums lately, I checked out reddit, just because. Thankfully, it’s not the outlaw-laden land of bannable people I thought it to be. Pleasantly surprised. I generally see a bit less of both “entitled qq babies” and “entitled hardcord kittens” out there.
Downvoting works, apparently.

But, the topics on reddit are actually pretty sparse and there’s no organization among them. I haven’t seen one decent class discussion that wasn’t very specifically about “what best pewpewpvp build”. And while I see the occasional red post there, it’s only proportionally more frequent than the official forums. In general, I don’t see that many dev responses on reddit, not enough to justify saying “zomg why only reddit”.

I’ll be honest, I’ve occasionally gotten more prompt information from the GW2 Facebook account than I have from the forums, and that’s discouraging. The forums ought to be the central location for their communication, with sufficient cross-posts to other social outlets. As it is, their chatter is scattered, and it makes it difficult to be heard by a proper portion of the player base.

Rauderi.8706:

Downvoting works, apparently.

Perhaps, but I also see a lot of undeserved neg bombing as well, simply for disagreeing with another poster.

Personally I can’t stand Reddit, simply due to the way it’s formatted.

Endless Soul.5178:

Rauderi.8706:

Downvoting works, apparently.

Perhaps, but I also see a lot of undeserved neg bombing as well, simply for disagreeing with another poster.

Personally I can’t stand Reddit, simply due to the way it’s formatted.

And I’ve seen where someone has gone through and downvoted everyone, like the thread where they were saying their main char name and how they came up with it. Almost everyone on the thread had a zero point vote rather than the one point you start off with.

Nike.2631:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

This. But that fear is more than legitimate given past incidents and the current affairs on the forums. I mean, look at the nasty way people respond every time Gaile posts anything.

If you can’t manage to give a good showing in your own front yard while you hold every imaginable card in terms of time to prep, inside knowledge, and an absolute stranglehold on moderation, you’re DOING IT WRONG.

Heck, if I was an ANet developer I wouldn’t post here either.

And you’d be watching opinion surrounding your livelihood fester too.

A perfect example of why developers post on Reddit and not here.

Ayrilana.1396:

Why must they be required to post on the GW2 forums? They use all forms of social media so there’s no reason for everything to be restricted to these forums.

They don’t have to be RESTRICTED to posting here, but doing so at some point on the given topic would be nice, being that, well, this is the Guild Wars 2 forums…

I was browsing Reddit the other night and came across a really sweet thread about a guild of about 15 people that just made a legendary for their guild leader and posted the video of them presenting it to her over on Reddit. Here is the thread

It took them about a year to gather the stuff to craft it, I’m assuming a group of casual folks (heck, it’s all good, I’m way too lazy to craft one!) and they were quite proud of her reaction and their accomplishment. Spreading some holiday warm and fuzzies. I’m down with that! Upvotes all around!

However let me state that Reddit wasn’t full of the love and feels I expected after reading how the Devs prefer it there to here. The rude stuff some folks had to say just left me stunned. How sad it was it took 15 people a year to craft it, how the guild leader wasn’t even likely a female IRL.. just a bunch of rude nasty trolls. Like every other online forum can be. If the Devs want a better atmosphere here, last I checked, they had the tools to help make that happen.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s my understanding that any time an employee posts here, their response must first go through some kind of committee for approval. At least, that was the case some time ago after the SAB disaster.

If that’s still the case, Reddit might be a simple way to bypass this ‘committee’ and post without having your writing submitted for approval or disapproval.

If that’s still the case.

Siobhan.5273:

However let me state that Rddit wasn’t full of the love and feels I expected after reading how the Devs prefer it there to here. The rude stuff some folks had to say just left me stunned. How sad it was it took 15 people a year to craft it, how the guild leader wasn’t even likely a female IRL.. just a bunch of rude nasty trolls. Like every other online forum can be.

So, it’s basically just like this forum…I figured. lol

Ayrilana.1396:

Why must they be required to post on the GW2 forums? They use all forms of social media so there’s no reason for everything to be restricted to these forums.

Players do get directed here by support for help.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s my understanding that any time an employee posts here, their response must first go through some kind of committee for approval. At least, that was the case some time ago after the SAB disaster.

If that’s still the case, Reddit might be a simple way to bypass this ‘committee’ and post without having your writing submitted for approval or disapproval.

If that’s still the case.

That’s the distinct impression I’ve gotten. This forum has classes devs have to attend first before they post, and if they say something “not right” there is a chat with upper management. That’s bound to have a very dampening effect on posting. With reddit, they can log on and chat without having to attend a class or be so careful.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Siobhan.5273:

However let me state that Rddit wasn’t full of the love and feels I expected after reading how the Devs prefer it there to here. The rude stuff some folks had to say just left me stunned. How sad it was it took 15 people a year to craft it, how the guild leader wasn’t even likely a female IRL.. just a bunch of rude nasty trolls. Like every other online forum can be.

So, it’s basically just like this forum…I figured. lol

hehe! Exactly!

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s my understanding that any time an employee posts here, their response must first go through some kind of committee for approval. At least, that was the case some time ago after the SAB disaster.

If that’s still the case, Reddit might be a simple way to bypass this ‘committee’ and post without having your writing submitted for approval or disapproval.

If that’s still the case.

That makes so much sense. It’s good to have a safe space away from all that pressure and authoritarian lenses.

“However let me state that Reddit wasn’t full of the love and feels I expected after reading how the Devs prefer it there to here.”

Well it is the internet.

“The rude stuff some folks had to say just left me stunned. How sad it was it took 15 people a year to craft it, how the guild leader wasn’t even likely a female IRL”

Why would it matter if they are or not?

“just a bunch of rude nasty trolls. Like every other online forum can be.”

Meh, it comes with the territory.

So, after reading this thread and the countless others created about communication on this official gw2 forum, there seems to be quite a bit of defence for them using Reddit. So, if Reddit is the main place for the devs to post on about the game and players concerns, should we all then be:

Reporting bugs etc on Reddit and not here for example?

I think it is a waste of time posting anything here now. No point if the responses are being made elsewhere.

I mean, if I was running a business and had my own company forums, why would I be using another media to post information?

And I don’t buy any of this “why would they post here with all the griefing?” Rubbish. It’s their site for gods sake. It’s not rocket science seeing that people are concerned with this.

Maybe anet should post on this forum to ask us all to join Reddit…

Gaile Gray.6029:

(In the case of the concerns in the OP, I agree with Baconomics that we did cover the topic here, and I think we did that even before it was present on reddit.)

Not to be rude but that post baconomic link made after people complain about it on reddit and not forum.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Reddit-is-now-the-new-official-forum/first#post5826342

Thank you for post and hope for improve communication here.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I’m speaking about this one, clearly on these forums:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Update-on-Legendary-Collections-More

Yes made after complain in thread I link above which was post on reddit.

I believe, from what various Anet people have said in various ways over a various period of time (I know I know, I’m being so scholarly with my source material here) that what it boils down to is basically this:

Anet Devs (the game developers, not community managers, support employees, or forum communications people) have the option to say things on the forums or on reddit, but it comes out of their own time, is not considered part of the job (so it’s hard to justify doing it during normal work hours), and it is completely up to them where they post, if they do at all, forums or reddit (since both are “official” platforms).

And let’s face it, this forum software is crap and no one knows it better than Anet. So if you’re a tech-savvy dev who wants to say something, which are you likely go for, the ancient outdated forum or the up-to-date with ongoing updates Reddit? On top of that, some devs are probably “redditors” themselves (as in, they use the website a lot in their free time).

Edit: Gaile beat me to it and she actually knows what she’s talking about LOL. Never mind!

Gaile Gray.6029:

Posts can be made where the ArenaNet team member is comfortable posting. No one is required to post. No one is forbidden from posting. I agree with you that sometimes there is info “out there” that I’d like to see on the official forums. In cases where I’m aware of it, I’ll ask the dev if he/she could also post here, or if we could synopsize the external post to share it here. I think it works, for the most part: the team member can post wherever he/she wishes, and we’ll do our best to share info here.

So you’re the “ArenaNet Forum Communications Team Lead”, but in fact you don’t lead anything…. since every dev can do whatever they want, no ?

Gaile Gray.6029:

ArenaNet doesn’t want to adopt a “post here and only here” approach to communications. I hope you’ll understand and support the inclusiveness of our communicating as being more important than the medium on which something is said.

I disagree, the medium is very important because :
A) Not all the players know how to use Reddit, and some don’t even know what it is.
B) Some players can hardly understand English (in the French, German, or Spanish server for example)

Thank you for your response Gaile, as always it is much appreciated!

I don’t think anyone is really saying that they are against arenanet sticking to just one media to communicate on, I think it’s more that maybe responses should be done in tandem with other sites. This way, both official forum users and Reddit users can access posts and responses simultaneously.

That would be best thing to do in my personal opinion :-)

Gaile Gray.6029:

I’m speaking about this one, clearly on these forums:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Update-on-Legendary-Collections-More

This is the link to the inital post:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Update-on-Legendary-Collections-More/5826761

Let me be clearer:

The post to which I referred was made on December 4th, 16:04

The post that formed the basis of the complaint in the first post of this thread is less than 24 hours old.

My point is that our devs did address some of the concerns early on.

Edit: To clarify.

Yes but you say it was post here before reddit and was not. The complaint about it post on reddit first here.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Reddit-is-now-the-new-official-forum/

This post made before you post it here.

I do not want to argue. Try to be nice but the information you link was post on reddit first. Have a nice night.