Guild Wars 2

I find it odd that we still can’t combine axes, sickles, and picks after all this time. It can’t be that difficult to code these simple, low hanging fruit types of things in.

Oh, and Timberline Falls near Rankor Ruins is still one of the buggiest heart quests in the game. It has been that way since Beta (I know because I reported on it). Just giving yet another heads up.

That is all.

Because they’re not stacks. You don’t have 50 axes. You have an ax that wears down and is useless when you get that number of uses. You can’t stack weapon axes. You can’t stack the axe you’re using to harvest, because it’s 1 axe, that you eventually where down.

I’ve wondered about this as well. The only reason I can see this being as it is, would be to cause harvesting tools to take up more inventory space, thereby “encouraging” players to A. buy gems to buy bigger inventory bags, or B. pay for using a waypoint to a spot where players would then buy replacement tools.

If A. is true, I find it quite scary that Anet is that desperate for money. If B. is it, it’s still kinda creepy that they are wanting players to spend silver that badly.

At the very least it would be nice to stack up to 199, so that a new stack could be combined with one that is in use.

Vayne.8563:

Because they’re not stacks. You don’t have 50 axes. You have an ax that wears down and is useless when you get that number of uses. You can’t stack weapon axes. You can’t stack the axe you’re using to harvest, because it’s 1 axe, that you eventually where down.

So the concept of sharpening the tool is beyond the realm of possibility? Let’s put a little common sense here. Thanks.

Mithion.1830:

Vayne.8563:

Because they’re not stacks. You don’t have 50 axes. You have an ax that wears down and is useless when you get that number of uses. You can’t stack weapon axes. You can’t stack the axe you’re using to harvest, because it’s 1 axe, that you eventually where down.

So the concept of sharpening the tool is beyond the realm of possibility? Let’s put a little common sense here. Thanks.

They were using common sense, they were pointing out that the particular tool is a single tool. You also didn’t say anything about sharpening in your original post xD
Besides, how can throwing two axes together make one axe that is extra sharp?

I’d like to have a gathering tool with more uses too, but they aren’t stacks ^^

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

Mithion.1830:

Vayne.8563:

Because they’re not stacks. You don’t have 50 axes. You have an ax that wears down and is useless when you get that number of uses. You can’t stack weapon axes. You can’t stack the axe you’re using to harvest, because it’s 1 axe, that you eventually where down.

So the concept of sharpening the tool is beyond the realm of possibility? Let’s put a little common sense here. Thanks.

They were using common sense, they were pointing out that the particular tool is a single tool. You also didn’t say anything about sharpening in your original post xD
Besides, how can throwing two axes together make one axe that is extra sharp?

I’d like to have a gathering tool with more uses too, but they aren’t stacks ^^

We’ll have to agree to disagree. Having 20 different piles of 24 axe, 21 axe, 15 axe, etc… of all the same type of axe is stupid. Especially if you have as many alts.

I carry around a maximum of six gathering tools for various uses. I see no reason why you would need to carry around any more than that unless going gathering for a day is your idea of having a great time.

Its not hard to come by vendors selling tools. Theyre everywhere. Worst case just go back to Lions Arch and run back to your destination. This is a non-issue really…. and to be honest a couple of silver in waypoint costs is nothing. You can get a weeks worth of travel money from one 8 minute CoF P1 run.

If you had a stack of axes, or picks, etc., how would you know how many uses each pick or axe had? I understand it would probably make little difference, but that may be why they do not stack…as the number that shows in the icon shows how many uses are left on each axe, pick, sickle; if they were stacked the number would show how many are in the stack, and you would not be able to tell how many uses were on each pick, etc.

The point of stacking gathering tools would be that the number of gathers stack together, not the number of tools.

Not a difficult concept, guys.

If you have a pick at 54 gathers, and you buy a new pick of the same type (100 gathers), stacking them would give you 154 gathers, which is what should be displayed on the icon.

Mithion.1830:

Vayne.8563:

Because they’re not stacks. You don’t have 50 axes. You have an ax that wears down and is useless when you get that number of uses. You can’t stack weapon axes. You can’t stack the axe you’re using to harvest, because it’s 1 axe, that you eventually where down.

So the concept of sharpening the tool is beyond the realm of possibility? Let’s put a little common sense here. Thanks.

The Minecraft pre-release versions would like to say hello, and hand you two Diamond Swords with only about 10% durability left. What are you supposed to do with them? Well before 10/6/11 you could only just glare and use them til they broke. After that, you could combine them and get the uses plus some extra returned. And there was much rejoicing.

Now. As for your real-world logic? Tools are not just about sharpening, it’s about metal fatigue and wear which is not immediately apparent to the layperson. A knife can be sharpened for a long time, but severe nicks in the edge can’t be dealt with so easily. Nor can you really repair a crack in it, or corrosion.

Hammer heads can sometimes snap in half around the post, and you cannot just patch the two halves together and get a brand new hammer. It’s not even safe to use a hammer like that anyway.

interpol.2397:

The point of stacking gathering tools would be that the number of gathers stack together, not the number of tools.

Not a difficult concept, guys.

If you have a pick at 54 gathers, and you buy a new pick of the same type (100 gathers), stacking them would give you 154 gathers, which is what should be displayed on the icon.

That would require them to set it so you can “overcharge” one tool, which can run into a lot of potential troubles if the item type is not set to allow that. And there would have to be an upper limit, where people would still be saying

“. . . why can’t I have more than 999 uses? I can use a real axe more than that, why not this fictional one?”

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

interpol.2397:

The point of stacking gathering tools would be that the number of gathers stack together, not the number of tools.

Not a difficult concept, guys.

If you have a pick at 54 gathers, and you buy a new pick of the same type (100 gathers), stacking them would give you 154 gathers, which is what should be displayed on the icon.

That would require them to set it so you can “overcharge” one tool, which can run into a lot of potential troubles if the item type is not set to allow that. And there would have to be an upper limit, where people would still be saying

“. . . why can’t I have more than 999 uses? I can use a real axe more than that, why not this fictional one?”

That can be argued into infinity, honestly. It could also be argued in the other direction. A real axe might break after 1 use if the quality is bad, why not have a chance of it breaking after a single use?

Personally, I’m not for stacking, I’m just trying to clarify how the stacks should logically work. I’m more for infinite-use tools that charge a per-gather cost equivalent to what that cost is now when we buy them.
I never calculated, but let’s say if a mithril sickle costs 200c (idr real price) and has 50 gathers, an Infinite Mithril Sickle would take out 4c each time you gathered – if you don’t have money, then you cannot gather.

interpol.2397:

Personally, I’m not for stacking, I’m just trying to clarify how the stacks should logically work. I’m more for infinite-use tools that charge a per-gather cost equivalent to what that cost is now when we buy them.
I never calculated, but let’s say if a mithril sickle costs 200c (idr real price) and has 50 gathers, an Infinite Mithril Sickle would take out 4c each time you gathered – if you don’t have money, then you cannot gather.

I’m going to ask you to excuse me but this is an idea which feels inherently wrong to impose on the players.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I’m going to ask you to excuse me but this is an idea which feels inherently wrong to impose on the players.

That’s fine, but I really don’t see what the issue would be. The price for gathering would be exactly the same, and if someone doesn’t want to gather at all, they just don’t go to the nodes. I can’t understand what the “imposition” is. It would actually be more convenient.
No one is obligated to gather.

I should also add, I have zero issue with the current system – I just believe it would be more convenient to never worry about a tool running out of gathers. One could argue that it would make gathering more “mindless”, I guess.

Or you could just buy the 250 use tools from event vendors and not worry about it at all…

interpol.2397:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I’m going to ask you to excuse me but this is an idea which feels inherently wrong to impose on the players.

That’s fine, but I really don’t see what the issue would be. The price for gathering would be exactly the same, and if someone doesn’t want to gather at all, they just don’t go to the nodes. I can’t understand what the “imposition” is. It would actually be more convenient.
No one is obligated to gather.

I should also add, I have zero issue with the current system – I just believe it would be more convenient to never worry about a tool running out of gathers. One could argue that it would make gathering more “mindless”, I guess.

I’ll explain in four steps.

- Gathering Tools cost an increasing amount of money for the rarer materials, and instead of a one-time fee you have a continuous surcharge every time you use it.

- You cannot use it if your pockets don’t have any coin in it.

- You can buy Gems and turn them into coin.

- Forum touts this as proof the game is “Pay To Win”.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I’ll explain in four steps.

- Gathering Tools cost an increasing amount of money for the rarer materials, and instead of a one-time fee you have a continuous surcharge every time you use it.

- You cannot use it if your pockets don’t have any coin in it.

- You can buy Gems and turn them into coin.

- Forum touts this as proof the game is “Pay To Win”.

1. How is that any different from the current system? You can use an Ori Pick to mine copper ores – that would cost more than mining it with a Copper Pick. If someone wants one of each Infinite Gather Tools to use in appropriate areas, what’s the problem?
2. Cost is the same. For one, I doubt there is anyone running with 0c at any time. And how would one be able to gather if they can’t afford tools to begin with? Per gather cost would be exactly the same as it is now, you just wouldn’t need to find a merchant if you ever ran out of tools – you can keep going.

3 and 4 are really reaching, to the point where I don’t see how it’s at all relevant. How would having Infinite Tools change the fact that you can buy gold with gems and vice versa? I never said they would be a gem store item.

interpol.2397:

1. How is that any different from the current system? You can use an Ori Pick to mine copper ores – that would cost more than mining it with a Copper Pick. If someone wants one of each Infinite Gather Tools to use in appropriate areas, what’s the problem?
2. Cost is the same. For one, I doubt there is anyone running with 0c at any time. And how would one be able to gather if they can’t afford tools to begin with? Per gather cost would be exactly the same as it is now, you just wouldn’t need to find a merchant if you ever ran out of tools – you can keep going.

3 and 4 are really reaching, to the point where I don’t see how it’s at all relevant. How would having Infinite Tools change the fact that you can buy gold with gems and vice versa? I never said they would be a gem store item.

You’re not paying attention. Those are four steps from your proposed choice to where players would become very upset. Not four distinct points to discuss on.

. . . and yes, I’ve seen this system in use once before. It really wasn’t all that good.

interpol.2397:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

interpol.2397:

The point of stacking gathering tools would be that the number of gathers stack together, not the number of tools.

Not a difficult concept, guys.

If you have a pick at 54 gathers, and you buy a new pick of the same type (100 gathers), stacking them would give you 154 gathers, which is what should be displayed on the icon.

That would require them to set it so you can “overcharge” one tool, which can run into a lot of potential troubles if the item type is not set to allow that. And there would have to be an upper limit, where people would still be saying

“. . . why can’t I have more than 999 uses? I can use a real axe more than that, why not this fictional one?”

That can be argued into infinity, honestly. It could also be argued in the other direction. A real axe might break after 1 use if the quality is bad, why not have a chance of it breaking after a single use?

Personally, I’m not for stacking, I’m just trying to clarify how the stacks should logically work. I’m more for infinite-use tools that charge a per-gather cost equivalent to what that cost is now when we buy them.
I never calculated, but let’s say if a mithril sickle costs 200c (idr real price) and has 50 gathers, an Infinite Mithril Sickle would take out 4c each time you gathered – if you don’t have money, then you cannot gather.

I see where you’re coming from, and you’re approaching the problem from the wrong angle. Many of us would agree that tools with more uses would be really nice, as having one run out of uses right as you find a rich node is extremely frustrating, and since they’re account bound you can’t just get someone to mail you a new one.

But the key detail, is that they. are. not. stacks.
Therefore, logically, they shouldn’t behave like stacks. And don’t.
So instead of asking to be able to stack the tools together as some are, it would be far more productive to ask for tools with more uses, they can scale up in price to match the same per use fee, that’s fine.
My preference though, would be to have the Ori tools simply be more efficient at gathering lower tier mats, because while they aren’t a stack, they are supposed to be far better quality tools. So they should act like it. Lower tier mats should not consume a use of an Ori tool on a 1:1 basis, now that is something that makes no sense. Optimally an Ori tool would be able to gather the first few tiers without consuming uses at all (they require like lvl 65 to be able to use anyway, it’s not like people are just going to buy them exclusively), and once you get to like tier 4 or 5 they would consume 1 use per node instead of per gather.
I mean, they’re so much higher quality that they can harvest Ancient wood and Ori nodes, yet fall apart like a cheap piece of junk when used on a copper node or green wood. Seriously makes no sense, and would make for a very nice quality of life change for the better.

And, like I said, you’re really reaching, especially with the last 2 “steps”.

Gems have always cost coins have always cost gems have always cost coins. If I buy a pick at 2s and mine with it until 0 gathers, it would cost the same as doing 100 gathers costing me 2s. There is zero difference. So, saying that Infinite Tools would lead people to claim p2w is the same as saying Finite Tools would lead to people claiming p2w.
I don’t see anyone crying out because of any BL Tools, as a matter of fact, and those are literally from the gem store.

Which game have you seen the system used in? I’d like to check it out and see what the consensus on it was.

As I said, I have no problems with the way gathering is right now. Don’t much care if they change the system, but I’d prefer Infinites.

Mithion.1830:

Vayne.8563:

Because they’re not stacks. You don’t have 50 axes. You have an ax that wears down and is useless when you get that number of uses. You can’t stack weapon axes. You can’t stack the axe you’re using to harvest, because it’s 1 axe, that you eventually where down.

So the concept of sharpening the tool is beyond the realm of possibility? Let’s put a little common sense here. Thanks.

So, instead of replacing one after you use it, you have to go back all the way to town, to resharpen it? How is that better?

interpol.2397:

Gems have always cost coins have always cost gems have always cost coins. If I buy a pick at 2s and mine with it until 0 gathers, it would cost the same as doing 100 gathers costing me 2s. There is zero difference.

There is a very significant difference: when the fee is charged to the player. You might say it doesn’t matter. I might agree with you. And yet there are doubtless hundreds of people prepared to call us all crazy.

So, saying that Infinite Tools would lead people to claim p2w is the same as saying Finite Tools would lead to people claiming p2w. I don’t see anyone crying out because of any BL Tools, as a matter of fact, and those are literally from the gem store.

I may be wrong, someone check but the Black Lion tools have fewer than normal uses to balance them out. Also, you only get them via random chance from a Black Lion Chest. Which will require a key to open and there is a large chance you won’t get one. In short, you don’t see anyone crying out about them because they’re not a significant part of the game.

Your option is a significant change and a significant part of the game. It also would allow anyone to “reload” their pick with Gems. (I think instantly.) I don’t know if you were aware, but there are still a non-zero number of people who draw the line from Cash to Gems to Gold as a proof that there is a “pay to win” already inherent in the game.

Which game have you seen the system used in? I’d like to check it out and see what the consensus on it was.

It was a mobile game I tried for a time, and while I can look up my entire purchase history I cannot recall just which one it was. I tried a lot of free games with “premium currency for X” inherent in them. The way it was handled, if I recall right, was you got a limited uses per day for free, but you could pay an increasing amount of premium currency to go beyond it, starting at a low amount and picking up rapidly. And of course, you weren’t guaranteed what you needed. For reference, this would be about as often as you get a gemstone, dye, or “hidden cache” off gathering currently.

Soon as I crunched numbers realizing you’d be pretty much playing with the daily limit free for several months to get anywhere with it, and even paying you run the risk of not getting anywhere . . . well you know the rest.

Simplest answer – so they can sell you extra inventory and bank space via the gem store.

Chuo.4238:

Simplest answer – so they can sell you extra inventory and bank space via the gem store.

Better answer:

So you have a reason to spend for bags with more slots. General consensus last time the topic came up is that your starter pack (20 slots) and four 18-slot bags should be about all you ever really need. You could probably get by with four 15-slot bags if your money is tight.

Vayne.8563:

Because they’re not stacks. You don’t have 50 axes. You have an ax that wears down and is useless when you get that number of uses. You can’t stack weapon axes. You can’t stack the axe you’re using to harvest, because it’s 1 axe, that you eventually where down.

Are you arguing real-life logic in a game that lets you bank resources from anywhere in the world and has individual resource nodes?

One of the reasons I originally enjoyed GW2 was for those little touches where the game didn’t fight you for no reason, didn’t create challenge for unentertaining management, let you have fun. I don’t get that feeling so much now that I’ve struggled with a lot of the UI, but this one’s a no-brainer; gathering tools should be able to be combined to their maximum usage (e.g. two mithril mining picks, 57 and 62. You can drag one on top of the other for a 100-use pick and a 19-use pick).

There used to be this game, where you could have teleportation scrolls, or buy a teleportation tome where you could stack 25 scrolls. They were automatically added to the tome when you found them.

Must have been a very poor game because I’ve never seen it re-used since.

By the way, do you know which game I’m referring to? It’s quite old…

That would be far too convenient, must waste bag space with multiple tools.

It’s a grand total of 3 inventory spaces for my backup tools.

I don’t think people visit the merchant as often as they should to sell their junk.

ThiBash.5634:

There used to be this game, where you could have teleportation scrolls, or buy a teleportation tome where you could stack 25 scrolls. They were automatically added to the tome when you found them.

Must have been a very poor game because I’ve never seen it re-used since.

By the way, do you know which game I’m referring to? It’s quite old…

Diablo II.

A very poor game indeed…

Scumbag Mawile.6384:

Vayne.8563:

Because they’re not stacks. You don’t have 50 axes. You have an ax that wears down and is useless when you get that number of uses. You can’t stack weapon axes. You can’t stack the axe you’re using to harvest, because it’s 1 axe, that you eventually where down.

Are you arguing real-life logic in a game that lets you bank resources from anywhere in the world and has individual resource nodes?

One of the reasons I originally enjoyed GW2 was for those little touches where the game didn’t fight you for no reason, didn’t create challenge for unentertaining management, let you have fun. I don’t get that feeling so much now that I’ve struggled with a lot of the UI, but this one’s a no-brainer; gathering tools should be able to be combined to their maximum usage (e.g. two mithril mining picks, 57 and 62. You can drag one on top of the other for a 100-use pick and a 19-use pick).

No, I’m saying that it says in the Guild Wars 2 Strategy guide. These aren’t individual items. they’re single items. Someone asked a question about why they can’t combine stacks and I answered them. Their question, as posed, said they have stacks of axes, but they don’t. They have a single axe that eventually wears out.

There’s no need to stack this stuff. It’s cheap enough to replace, even if you delete a dwindling stack at some point to save inventory space, which I almost never have to do.

Just buy bigger bags and play the game, instead of making spurious threads about non-issues. There are plenty of actual issues in this game…this ain’t one of them.

Vayne.8563:

Because they’re not stacks. You don’t have 50 axes. You have an ax that wears down and is useless when you get that number of uses. You can’t stack weapon axes. You can’t stack the axe you’re using to harvest, because it’s 1 axe, that you eventually where down.

Please explain food stacks then.

The Magic Wombat.5170:

Vayne.8563:

Because they’re not stacks. You don’t have 50 axes. You have an ax that wears down and is useless when you get that number of uses. You can’t stack weapon axes. You can’t stack the axe you’re using to harvest, because it’s 1 axe, that you eventually where down.

Please explain food stacks then.

You don’t equip food.

I love all this real world talk about crap in a game. Have fun fighting over what can and cant be done in the real world.

I’m going to go back to shooting fire out of my hands.

And wondering why the hell My axes don’t stack.

ThiBash.5634:

There used to be this game, where you could have teleportation scrolls, or buy a teleportation tome where you could stack 25 scrolls. They were automatically added to the tome when you found them.

Must have been a very poor game because I’ve never seen it re-used since.

By the way, do you know which game I’m referring to? It’s quite old…

Yes, and it was also full of fun acceptable breaks from reality. Like a swarm of mosquitoes or locusts dropping plate mail

penatbater.4710:

The Magic Wombat.5170:

Vayne.8563:

Because they’re not stacks. You don’t have 50 axes. You have an ax that wears down and is useless when you get that number of uses. You can’t stack weapon axes. You can’t stack the axe you’re using to harvest, because it’s 1 axe, that you eventually where down.

Please explain food stacks then.

You don’t equip food.

Again, please explain how I can take a stack of 5 plates of food, and combine it with a stack of 3 plates of food, to produce a stack of 8 plates of food, but I can’t take two stacks of copper harvesting sickles (say with 12 and 13 uses) and combine them into 1 stack with 25 uses?

“Equipping” is irreleavt. I want to stack them when they are unequipped.

And, I am merely pointing out that stating the reason why we can can’t combine stacks—because it measures uses left on a single item—doesn’t hold up when looked at with the other items that do allow stacks to combine. I cannot combine a 1-use axe with a 1-use axe to make a 2-use axe, but I can combine a 1-use pig dinner with a 1-use pig dunner to make a stack of 2 1-use pig dinners? How about I simply make a stack of 2 1-use axes?

The simple fact is the lack of being able to combine stacks has more to do with selling gems than anything else.

The Magic Wombat.5170:

Again, please explain how I can take a stack of 5 plates of food, and combine it with a stack of 3 plates of food, to produce a stack of 8 plates of food, but I can’t take two stacks of copper harvesting sickles (say with 12 and 13 uses) and combine them into 1 stack with 25 uses?

Because the database handles the two items differently. One is a counter which goes up and down showing stacks, the other is a counter which only goes down which shows remaining uses.

And, I am merely pointing out that stating the reason why we can can’t combine stacks—because it measures uses left on a single item—doesn’t hold up when looked at with the other items that do allow stacks to combine. I cannot combine a 1-use axe with a 1-use axe to make a 2-use axe, but I can combine a 1-use pig dinner with a 1-use pig dunner to make a stack of 2 1-use pig dinners? How about I simply make a stack of 2 1-use axes?

Interesting logic, and it holds up. However, that’s not how the items are written.

The simple fact is the lack of being able to combine stacks has more to do with selling gems than anything else.

People continue to go back to this as though it’s an unassailable fact. Really, it’s more about inventory management than “must get them to buy gems”. Even the Diablo 2 example above was full of inventory management issues. (Including “why does the book only have 25 pages?”)