So are the devs working on conditions or not?
Why would it be different… we have 3 or 4 condition builds which can out AoE DOT equal to to warrior DPS, with 1 exception… engineer… but tbh as long as you keep moving only a limited amount of the AoE burning fields will apply if you are forced to pass them.
Cleanses still work.
I guess conditions are here to stay… luckily. tweaking them might be an issue…but warrior can stack ~5-10 burning, ranger 10-15, guardian 15-20 engineer 15-25…
Things which make DoT dangerous are vulnerability (+25% dng) and might (1500 condition dmg is nice 2250 is better (firefields???)
Condition duration reducing food and runes exist…
There is quite a lot to consider… but OP? No not really, dodging and resistance could be allies as would cleaning sigils or changing condi’s to boons….
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.
Didn’t bleed need a buff, according to ANet? Don’t be surprised when they get around to it if it just shifts the focus of the conditions.
They nerfed a number of skills right off the bat to reduce conditions. They are in a pretty good place right now, though I still think burning is a little over the top. I think engineer and ele need to have their burning stacks on their skills reduced a bit and then everything would be pretty good condition wise. Maybe bring bleed up a little bit as well.
Some classes are still not great at conditions, like necro. They are good at transferring them back to the enemy, but not so great at making their own conditions. Though there are rumors of an upgrade for their condition weapons.
Burning is the only really strong condition now, bleed was even nerfed to hell
since it makes half the damage than before the condition changes so that i
equipped my sword warrior now again with berserker gear
Engi so far is the only class i found to make good use of it and its fun to play now
for me without much switching kits.
Also i found a decent build for my ranger with torch and traps.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
I think that waiting a bit is a good thing. People always cry about new stuff, but over time they get used to is so it doesn’t need as big of a nerf if at all. Best exemple is TEQ. They nerfed it a couple of time, while people were getting better at it and it end up super easy.
Until now they didn’t nerfed condition and it a lot more manageable than it used to be at the patch. Now because the game changed, but people adapted to it.
I would be in favor of nerfing a little bit burning, but only if they buff a bit bleeding. Personnally, I think that burning is ok right now. It’s only really strong on Elementalist because the profession can give a good amount while being defensive. It’s also strong on guardian, but it’s a one trick pony.
condition damage is supposed to be SUSTAINED damage not Burst the fact that players can be downed in 0.4th of a second with some comboes show how broken condition damage is currently even as an engineer with 2 skills i can slap 6-8k damage per second worth of condition damage and that is on a non grenades build
condition damage is supposed to be SUSTAINED damage not Burst the fact that players can be downed in 0.4th of a second with some comboes show how broken condition damage is currently even as an engineer with 2 skills i can slap 6-8k damage per second worth of condition damage and that is on a non grenades build
And where that rule is written? Condition Damage isn’t supposed to be anything else than condition damage and Anet can make them do whatever they want.
condition damage is supposed to be SUSTAINED damage not Burst the fact that players can be downed in 0.4th of a second with some comboes show how broken condition damage is currently even as an engineer with 2 skills i can slap 6-8k damage per second worth of condition damage and that is on a non grenades build
And where that rule is written? Condition Damage isn’t supposed to be anything else than condition damage and Anet can make them do whatever they want.
that was the whole reason condition damage was designed to ignore defense modifiers
(edited by Rezzet.3614)
I think that waiting a bit is a good thing. People always cry about new stuff, but over time they get used to is so it doesn’t need as big of a nerf if at all. Best exemple is TEQ. They nerfed it a couple of time, while people were getting better at it and it end up super easy.
Until now they didn’t nerfed condition and it a lot more manageable than it used to be at the patch. Now because the game changed, but people adapted to it.
I would be in favor of nerfing a little bit burning, but only if they buff a bit bleeding. Personnally, I think that burning is ok right now. It’s only really strong on Elementalist because the profession can give a good amount while being defensive. It’s also strong on guardian, but it’s a one trick pony.
Guardian would not loose much, the problem is that DH will come and anet wont fix other possible builds (every class will suffer from it) we could have so players are gona be forced to play that spec or keep with the other that kinda works.
I rather see the output damage reduced a bit ( every one can burst each other way to fast, some classes are way to easy if someone uses macros in some situation), if i reacall fire was strong in gw1 as well, and was still mostly half of life tranfer hexes degen.
I really do think that condis are in good spot, just some classes have easy easy to kill with condis, and they should be only as pressure, the biggest problem is the output damage overall since every one is feels squishy, the easy damage with a condi+dps burst will makes any combat last 2-6seonconds, and game would be better if we had more single targeted atacks on AA.
I really feel Anet should make gw2 feel more like gw1 gvg combat scheme, less think to burst and more brain game overall.
What if Anet balanced the game for GvG 8vs8 on the new GH?
On GW1 5 man RA/TA was still balanced.
Also we need less AOE AA, every one looks like dervishes…. AA = 3 targets and AOE = 5 targets….
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
Burning is the only really strong condition now, bleed was even nerfed to hell
since it makes half the damage than before the condition changes so that i
equipped my sword warrior now again with berserker gearEngi so far is the only class i found to make good use of it and its fun to play now
for me without much switching kits.
Also i found a decent build for my ranger with torch and traps.
Bleeding wasn’t really nerf’d the SCALING with Condi Damage was changed, with 700+ Condi Damage you’ll find it does more than it used to with the same previous Condi Damage.
Burning is the only really strong condition now, bleed was even nerfed to hell
since it makes half the damage than before the condition changes so that i
equipped my sword warrior now again with berserker gearEngi so far is the only class i found to make good use of it and its fun to play now
for me without much switching kits.
Also i found a decent build for my ranger with torch and traps.Bleeding wasn’t really nerf’d the SCALING with Condi Damage was changed, with 700+ Condi Damage you’ll find it does more than it used to with the same previous Condi Damage.
Incorrect, you need 2200 CD to achieve the same damage as before the patch.
The bleed they previewed in the POI stream was not what was added in the patch. Bleed got a significant nerf between the POI and patch and the scaling went from 700 to 2200.
Burning is the only really strong condition now, bleed was even nerfed to hell
since it makes half the damage than before the condition changes so that i
equipped my sword warrior now again with berserker gearEngi so far is the only class i found to make good use of it and its fun to play now
for me without much switching kits.
Also i found a decent build for my ranger with torch and traps.Bleeding wasn’t really nerf’d the SCALING with Condi Damage was changed, with 700+ Condi Damage you’ll find it does more than it used to with the same previous Condi Damage.
Incorrect, you need 2200 CD to achieve the same damage as before the patch.
The bleed they previewed in the POI stream was not what was added in the patch. Bleed got a significant nerf between the POI and patch and the scaling went from 700 to 2200.
yeah, but wasnt that change due the vulnerability that increase damage and condi damage to?
I really do think that condis are in good spot, just some classes have easy easy to kill with condis,
Not totally. All condi build right now focus on burning. Engineer/Guardian/Ranger in PvE all focus on burning first. Guardian and Ranger use balthazar rune, while engineer is the only one that still give a good amount of other condition, while still focusing on burn. For sPvP it’s the same thing. Cele Ele focus on fire, Engineer condi focus on fire, Guardian focus on fire, Carrion Ranger focus on fire, the only that focus on bleed is Ranger condi Survival and that build isn’t one of the best. There is an imbalance right now toward burning. I would love to see more Bleeding Warrior and stuff like that.
I really do think that condis are in good spot, just some classes have easy easy to kill with condis,
Not totally. All condi build right now focus on burning. Engineer/Guardian/Ranger in PvE all focus on burning first. Guardian and Ranger use balthazar rune, while engineer is the only one that still give a good amount of other condition, while still focusing on burn. For sPvP it’s the same thing. Cele Ele focus on fire, Engineer condi focus on fire, Guardian focus on fire, Carrion Ranger focus on fire, the only that focus on bleed is Ranger condi Survival and that build isn’t one of the best. There is an imbalance right now toward burning. I would love to see more Bleeding Warrior and stuff like that.
indeed, i can understand that (i have been playing condi engi but basicly i use fire, and other condis to avoid fire to get cleaned in first place), on GW1 we had alot of condi gameplay, pressure, bursts etc and that was required team work not just one class doing all that with 1 or 2 condis, in that ideology yes burns is over the top atm.
Conditions should be to support dps and pressure not expect do kill, we could see more conditions in play if game was designed towards that.
Burning is the only really strong condition now, bleed was even nerfed to hell
since it makes half the damage than before the condition changes so that i
equipped my sword warrior now again with berserker gearEngi so far is the only class i found to make good use of it and its fun to play now
for me without much switching kits.
Also i found a decent build for my ranger with torch and traps.Bleeding wasn’t really nerf’d the SCALING with Condi Damage was changed, with 700+ Condi Damage you’ll find it does more than it used to with the same previous Condi Damage.
Incorrect, you need 2200 CD to achieve the same damage as before the patch.
The bleed they previewed in the POI stream was not what was added in the patch. Bleed got a significant nerf between the POI and patch and the scaling went from 700 to 2200.
yeah, but wasnt that change due the vulnerability that increase damage and condi damage to?
I think that might’ve been before hand, but even with the vulnerability added in your conditions won’t do that much more. They need to nerf burning and give a portion of that damage to bleeds. Even if they buffed it to 10% of your condition damage, that would be a great help. Poison I think is fine as it is because of the fact it hinders enemy healing.
I could support a 10-15% reduction in burning with a 10-15% increase in bleeding to compensate. At the same time I’d adjust guardian a bit to be able to combat that nerf with proper traiting as they don’t have access to bleeds.
Right now bleed is pretty weak, burn is pretty darn strong. Not a surprise that the burning professions are the main condi professions.
Ranger/Engi would probably sit right about where they are as they do plenty bleed and burning, it’d just shift some numbers. Guard would lose some ground so like I said give them something in their traiting to make up the loss. Warrior/Necro would be helped for sure with this change. The other professions I haven’t looked at much so no clue But I believe mesmer stacks a lot of bleed as well and would be helped by this.
condition damage is supposed to be SUSTAINED damage not Burst the fact that players can be downed in 0.4th of a second with some comboes show how broken condition damage is currently even as an engineer with 2 skills i can slap 6-8k damage per second worth of condition damage and that is on a non grenades build
While I agree about the nature of DoT, do keep the following in mind:
- 6-8k/s would translate into 3+ seconds worth of TTL, that’s assuming the enemy isn’t running zerker. Even if, 1,5~2,0s and they ought to not do anything but stand there and take it.
- GW2 has way too many counters to it’s DoTs. Cleanse is ubiquoutous, and that is significantly hurting the idea of over-time damage.
- Combat as a whole is breakneck pace. DD downs you in 4-5 seconds, too. Any form of group combat kills someone the moment they assist-train them. DoTs needing 18 seconds to do their full damage would never get to as combat ends before that.
So imagine for a moment a “proper DoT” world. Burning would deal, say, 15k damage (+50% compared to a direct damage attack) over 18 seconds, but there wouldn’t be any cleanses beyond something on a comparatively high cooldown. 10 seconds or so, and it’ll remove one application of a DoT.
And combat would take 15-30 seconds to kill someone to make these DoTs usable.
…
I guess conditions are here to stay… luckily. tweaking them might be an issue…but warrior can stack ~5-10 burning, ranger 10-15, guardian 15-20 engineer 15-25…
Keep it real in case of Warrior..! What you wrote back there doesn’t reflect reality that good, neither puts Warrior’s burn potential inline with the rest…
Warrior has really hard time to stack 10 burns and when he does he can’t keep it for long. When fully traited into LB and 100% burn duration :
Bow #1 : Can apply 2 stacks for 2 secs
Bow #3 : Can apply 3 stacks, when target is at melee range, for 4secs
Bow #F1 : Can stack 4 stacks, if target stays in AoE, for a total 12secs
So, the highest stacks may stay for maybe 2secs at best and they they rapidly fall. This happens only is opponent has both his hands tied…
Was burned the other day by Engi for 5.8k/sec solely from burning for at least 3secs (before cleansing). Not to mention that condi engi has access to more powerful condis (burn, confusion). You may count how many stacks this could be… but was down to 15% health solely from burning.
People tend to complain for Burning because some Engi, Trapper Ranger or Burn Guard heavily burned them. Never seen complains about Warrior burns.
And as I said elsewhere, its not the condis. The skills that apply too many/powerful condis at a fast rate is the 1st issue to be solved…
(edited by Ilias.8647)
…
I guess conditions are here to stay… luckily. tweaking them might be an issue…but warrior can stack ~5-10 burning, ranger 10-15, guardian 15-20 engineer 15-25…Keep it real in case of Warrior..! What you wrote back there doesn’t reflect reality that good, neither puts Warrior’s burn potential inline with the rest…
Warrior has really hard time to stack 10 burns and when he does he can’t keep it for long. When fully traited into LB and 100% burn duration :
Bow #1 : Can apply 2 stacks for 2 secs
Bow #3 : Can apply 3 stacks, when target is at melee range, for 4secs
Bow #F1 : Can stack 4 stacks, if target stays in AoE, for a total 12secsSo, the highest stacks may stay for maybe 2secs at best and they they rapidly fall. This happens only is opponent has both his hands tied…
Was burned the other day by Engi for 5.8k/sec solely from burning for at least 3secs (before cleansing). Not to mention that condi engi has access to more powerful condis (burn, confusion). You may count how many stacks this could be… but was down to 15% health solely from burning.
People tend to complain for Burning because some Engi, Trapper Ranger or Burn Guard heavily burned them. Never seen complains about Warrior burns.
And as I said elsewhere, its not the condis. The skills that apply too many/powerful condis at a fast rate is the 1st issue to be solved…
You are forgetting the fire aura, from leaping into the firefield with sword 2 and cripple (guess most have immo on cripple as well you’ll lock ‘m into place in the fire field and flurry. even if they stunbroke the leap you’ll get them with flurry inside the aoe most of the times. ).
If you’re going to run LB you also be running sword main on your second set (is my best guess?). If you push after your hit (leap in) and they do try to make a stand you’ll stack more then 10 burning…
And as is warrior LB / S/? is reasonably balanced, only the bleeds (maybe the torment) could use a buff, 10 stacks is survivable but good pressure, and I agree warrior burning duration is rather short, but If I see the new elite carrying a torch I think some burning duration might be added soon… as will stacks.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.
(edited by PaxTheGreatOne.9472)
Burning is the only really strong condition now, bleed was even nerfed to hell
since it makes half the damage than before the condition changes so that i
equipped my sword warrior now again with berserker gearEngi so far is the only class i found to make good use of it and its fun to play now
for me without much switching kits.
Also i found a decent build for my ranger with torch and traps.Bleeding wasn’t really nerf’d the SCALING with Condi Damage was changed, with 700+ Condi Damage you’ll find it does more than it used to with the same previous Condi Damage.
Incorrect, you need 2200 CD to achieve the same damage as before the patch.
The bleed they previewed in the POI stream was not what was added in the patch. Bleed got a significant nerf between the POI and patch and the scaling went from 700 to 2200.
I’ve also tested again today a little bit against the train golems and when going from
zerker amulett to rampager i loose more damage on auto-attacks than what i win
from the higher bleed. And that without counting the time it needs to ramp up
the bleed stacks.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.