Guild Wars 2

Don’t quote what other people said as if no one here has read that.

I’m asking YOU Celesica.

Is arenanet executing their vision of the game by reversing their stance on gear tiers?

If this IS their vision, why have they never told us about it during 5 years of blogs and community info, during a frenzy of sales leading up to; and immediately after launch?

If this is NOT their vision of the game, why are they doing it?

Seriously, quoting Chris’ comment about how they’re creating the first steps of a gear treadmill while specifically saying they’re not calling it a gear treadmill is not adding anything. We’ve all read his “we’re doing what we said we wouldn’t but we don’t want it to feel crappy and we’re calling it something else” comment.

What do YOU say?

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Loumy.7841:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Ryan.6951:

You have no idea how many copies I’ve purchased for friends and family. $60 isn’t even close. Nowhere near.

You obviously didn’t read the post. It’s not about thoughts on ascended gear. That’s what you get for replying before reading though.

Ah, you are right it’s slightly different. But regardless, it’s an incomplete game imho. They laid out the tiers
exotic —-—> legendary
exotic —-—> ascended —-——-> legendary

Tier list hasn’t grown, it just has more depth. Updates are completing this game. If they were finished, they’d have an expansion out already. You paid $60 (per game) which is like any other game, I hope you at least got your money’s worth along with whoever else you bought the game for. Maybe in the future, when they complete the game and know how it’s all laid out, you’ll be less disappointed.

There was no difference between Exotics and Legendaries up until this patch. So no, they’re not adding depth, they’re adding a gap.

They are moving legendaries up to the level of ascended stats and there is more depth. Because you can get exotics easier than ascended, and ascended easier than legendaries. That’s depth.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

exotic —-—> legendary
exotic —-—> ascended —-——-> legendary
exotic —-—> ascended —-——-> divine —-—> legendary
exotic —-—> ascended —--> divine —-—> super duper —-> legendary

Additional tiers are additional tiers, even if legendary is still the very top. It doesn’t add depth or complexity. It just adds more tiers that have to be passed through in order to reach a maximized character.
I’d rather see added depth or complexity in enemy AI, rather than equipment shuffling shenanigans. Or just new content.

Furthermore, I’d say that this belittles Legendaries. Exotics are relatively simple to obtain, but legendaries require a ton of time and effort to produce something visually stunning. Going beyond the distance, so to speak. But if the step from ascended to legendary about as difficult as rare to exotic…. Suddenly, legendaries seem like less of a big deal.

I agree with OP, so many of the game decisions here even before ascended gear – i have “Tolerated” and continued on to play gw2. Comparing to gw1 this game has been dumbed down to fit the button mashing crowd in order to lure in more customers.
Many strategic elements of combat has been removed or forgotten.

With the new ascended gear it’s sort of a shock that tops off all these concerns. I do not like it, ill probably tolerate it, but ill probably not spend a single dime again on this company.

The problem as i see it is the trust from players that arenanet has earned from gw1 has been steadily chipping away, and i think that will be a problem for them in the long run. I personally cannot trust anet anymore so i will be treating them as i will with every other gaming company; not a company that i look up to.

You know what, those questions to Celesica apply to everyone.

Is arenanet executing their vision of the game by reversing their stance on gear tiers?

If this IS their vision, why have they never told us about it during 5 years of blogs and community info, during a frenzy of sales leading up to; and immediately after launch?

If you think this is their vision, do you feel betrayed or supportive that no mention of this has ever been made before?

If this is NOT their vision of the game, why are they doing it?

If you think this is NOT the vision they have for the game, how much confidence do you have in the leadership moving forward if they caved after only 3 months on such a major issue?

Is arenanet executing their vision of the game by reversing their stance on gear tiers?

They are currently executing their vision of their game as of now, but with regards to the Ascended and Infusion stuff, they already said their goal isn’t to create a gear treadmill but a proper progression for players. We’re not sure yet if it’ll be an endless grind for better gears. What if when people play the new content, they’ll be able to get those new gear in just weeks, and then in a month everyone has it? What if not? Well, we don’t know yet because it’s not there yet, right? How can we know the amount of time to dedicate just to get this new gear? Afaik, GW2 is all about choosing how you want to progress and spend your time. How can we know that they are uber better gears than exotics? We still can’t verify this if we haven’t tested them yet.

If this IS their vision, why have they never told us about it during 5 years of blogs and community info, during a frenzy of sales leading up to; and immediately after launch?

I’m sorry I can’t answer this because I don’t know why, too? Lol. But there were reasons why they did this for sure. You might want to go back to Linsey’s blog post.

If this is NOT their vision of the game, why are they doing it?

For the game? For us? For the reasons they have stated why they did this?

The only mistake I’ve seen that ANet did about this whole thing is how they delivered the message. Linsey haven’t stated that in the future, Ascended can be acquired from other PvE and WvW aspects of the game, while Chris did that assurance. But before I’d assume and jump into conclusions and call them names or whatsoever, I’d have to play this new content first before I’ll judge, and see how the community grows/declines using these new stuff.

Thanks Cele, let me see if I can summarize your views.

Yes it’s the vision but the vision changed.

No idea why they were silent.

(you’re mistaken about the wvw/pve ascension gear, chris said “eventually”, which lets hope happens sooner than wvw culling or guesting or downlevel loot or any of the "soon"s we’ve been given)

But it wasn’t a mistake to backtrack, it wasn’t a mistake to keep their customers uninformed, it wasn’t a mistake to throw away flat gear to make a teensy tiny gear grind instead; it was only a mistake to break the news like they did.

Gotcha.

Celesica.5790:

Is arenanet executing their vision of the game by reversing their stance on gear tiers?

They are currently executing their vision of their game as of now, but with regards to the Ascended and Infusion stuff, they already said their goal isn’t to create a gear treadmill but a proper progression for players. We’re not sure yet if it’ll be an endless grind for better gears. What if when people play the new content, they’ll be able to get those new gear in just weeks, and then in a month everyone has it? What if not? Well, we don’t know yet because it’s not there yet, right? How can we know the amount of time to dedicate just to get this new gear? Afaik, GW2 is all about choosing how you want to progress and spend your time. How can we know that they are uber better gears than exotics? We still can’t verify this if we haven’t tested them yet.

If this IS their vision, why have they never told us about it during 5 years of blogs and community info, during a frenzy of sales leading up to; and immediately after launch?

I’m sorry I can’t answer this because I don’t know why, too? Lol. But there were reasons why they did this for sure. You might want to go back to Linsey’s blog post.

If this is NOT their vision of the game, why are they doing it?

For the game? For us? For the reasons they have stated why they did this?

The only mistake I’ve seen that ANet did about this whole thing is how they delivered the message. Linsey haven’t stated that in the future, Ascended can be acquired from other PvE and WvW aspects of the game, while Chris did that assurance. But before I’d assume and jump into conclusions and call them names or whatsoever, I’d have to play this new content first before I’ll judge, and see how the community grows/declines using these new stuff.

I’ve played games long enough to see the warning signs & this is a big red flag. You keep taking their words at face value as if what we have just been told will now hold true. We can look back over the past 5 years & come up with dozens of quotes that appeared to be rock solid & now here we are 3 months out from release & the one of the founding principles is being changed overnight to cater to a audience that will never be satisfied.

Here is what happens when you try to appease the power creep crowd:

“OO new loots with bigger stats”
-Acquired loots-
“I can no longer enjoy this game, no endgame”

Dev response, add new shiny loots with bigger stats

“OO new loots with bigger stats”

And the cycle never ends…..

No one else even gonna try at answering those questions?

Fair enough, there’s not really any way those get answered that makes anet look good.

the problem is not the gear treadmill,
the problem is there is “nothing else aside from gear to play for”.

what if there was armies with ranks/houses/castles/fame/notoriety/etc.

right now there is legendaries and commanders.
this isnt a lot to go for.

they need to add other meaningful goals. goals that can have an impact on group play or the community, that can get your character becoming something else than a egoist looter.
by adding meaningful goals to work for, your character would develop personality, that makes him different from the others, for whatever reason.
commander is ok, then maybe war tactician with some different group ability, or priest with some different group abilities.

just feeling that aside from “getting a legendary to look better, or commander title to rule wvw” (which are both fine by me btw) there isnt much else.

need more options for endgame character to “become” something.

It will just be another day of hunting mats and gold, just to get the best stats offered in this game in order to have a balance fight with other people stats wise.

Not fun.

Is arenanet executing their vision of the game by reversing their stance on gear tiers?
There is some uncertainty on this. It comes down to if they do it more than once. Once, I can understand to add in planned mechanics that were not ready in time for launch. If that’s the case, it can be forgivable/understandable. If not, then this question urgently needs a straight-up response from Anet.

If this IS their vision, why have they never told us about it during 5 years of blogs and community info, during a frenzy of sales leading up to; and immediately after launch?
This is my biggest concern with ArenaNet and other game shops like BioWare. Vague information, “we aren’t talking about that yet,” “soon,” and the like really only frustrate their fans. Making games isn’t the smoke and mirrors it used to be. Many of us players have some idea of the process involved and are actually smart enough to understand the mechanics, reverse-engineer their formulas, and see flaws and determine fixes that they missed. If Anet came out and said, “We’re adding gear tiers because of a mandate from our parent company,” I would understand, and probably just deal with it and keep playing. At least I had been given up-front, honest information. Instead we are treated like idiots.

If this is NOT their vision of the game, why are they doing it?
The notion that they may be doing something contrary to their vision of their own game is the most troubling, and it bodes no good for the future. I would rather discover that they wanted to make endless gear progression for a good reason than they were forced to against their better judgement.

Any way you slice it, Anet needs to cowboy up and give us the whole truth on these matters.

exactly Buzz.

there isnt enough meaningful/cool things to make you character more than a “looter” farming for top gear.
if the game was really “not about gears” anet should have added different endgame rewards and mechanics to define your character. (commander is a good exemple, but there isnt enough other options!)

There were other goals, but apparently they weren’t enough for some people.

This decision to add another tier of gear that has a statistical advantage has made me look at their mmo-manifesto again. I realize that the haters were right. ArenaNet didn’t really deliver on any of the promises in that video.

Did the personal story in GW2 make me feel like a hero? No. Were there any villagers that remember me? Nope. Did I log in to a map and dynamic events made it look completely different? Nope. Is there always something new going on in the game world? Not really. It’s the same events on a loop.

Maybe, maybe they delivered some fun combat and their art style is beautiful. I’ll give them that.

Now they are actually taking away something they did deliver? They are adding in a grind for a stat advantage— something they claimed over and over was a problem in other mmos and that it didn’t make them fun.

I keep thinking that it’s just the beginning and that they still have time to actually deliver on what they said— but I’m starting to lose faith.

give characters some “epic destinies” to grind for;

commander is one.

but it needs more.
more choices to grind for.
choices that can make your character different, not on a gear level, but on a gameplay level.
ranks/armies would be good too.
why there cant be a server king/queen ?
why cant there be royal guards ?
something. these titles could grant you boosts on wvw but also deboost if you were to get killed.

need to create a sense of community with different roles.
like EvE.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

2 things:

1. You could have probably gone to an amusement park for 1 day for $60 and be happier than paying $60 for 3 months worth of gameplay? Eh.

2. There is a thread for this kind of post: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Thoughts-on-Ascended-Gear-Merged-threads/page/162#post729913

2 things:

1) This is 2012 and amusement parks cost a lot more than $60 a day.

2) People can post wherever and whenever and about whatever they like. You don’t need to forum police. The mods can close or move this if needed. You don’t like what people say too bad. But I bet you are fine with multiple threads of people praising the game right?

Never.6014:

stuff

Thanks…. I really wanted to know if I was completely off base. These are the exact things I was thinking.

If this is their plan and vision and manifesto made real then that’s troubling. If this isn’t part of the plan… equally troubling. I honestly cannot think up a scenario where this is a rational well thought out non-reactionary measure taken with the goals of the manifesto and the respect of the players considered. I’m trying.

So dramatic! For 60 this is awesome entertainment. There is no monthly fee. So whatever you get is gravy. Calm down dire straits people

Kromsin.6359:

So dramatic! For 60 this is awesome entertainment. There is no monthly fee. So whatever you get is gravy. Calm down dire straits people

Oh, so since you only paid $60 and don’t actually support arenanet going forward… but you feel like your opinion of “everyone else should be happy with whatever they get” is reasonable.

Tell us more please.

Ryan.6951:

Never.6014:

stuff

Thanks…. I really wanted to know if I was completely off base. These are the exact things I was thinking.

If this is their plan and vision and manifesto made real then that’s troubling. If this isn’t part of the plan… equally troubling. I honestly cannot think up a scenario where this is a rational well thought out non-reactionary measure taken with the goals of the manifesto and the respect of the players considered. I’m trying.

Here’s the best case scenario as I see it:
Games always seem to take longer than allotted to develop. Crunch time is coming with Pandaland and other reasons, so they decide to release what’s done and save some unfinished content and mechanics for later. Infusions, the actual top tier of gear, and progressively difficult dungeons would be that content.

So they release the game in an interim stage. Functional, but incomplete. Now they have finished those three things, which all sort of need to go together for them to work. They add the final tier of gear, and introduce their progressive difficulty design. They’ve had some time to fine-tune it based on player feedback and internal statistics, so it may have changed in small ways. In the end, we get Ascended items, which were planned all along, and progressively more difficult and rewarding dungeons.

Even with this, the problem remains: they just aren’t being up-front with us. Keeping the loyalty of a playerbase is a challenging thing, but it’s simple. Tell the truth and tell it often and tell it in detail. If you do that, the players will genuinely love you and your game if it is the kind of game that interests them. Do anything less, and they’ll see right through it and your credibility is irreparably damaged.

1. You could have probably gone to an amusement park for 1 day for $60 and be happier than paying $60 for 3 months worth of gameplay? Eh.

How does this even apply?

A big selling point for GW2 was there will be no gear tiers – you get to the top and you’re done and can have fun experiencing cool content instead of running in place on a gear treadmill.

Then they boost legendaries to be stronger than exotics when they originally said they would only differ by having cooler appearances.

And now they’re adding an intermediate tier.

Clearly, they did not stick to what they said they were going to do and it’s ok for people to be upset about this since it’s somewhat of a major point. Many people were jazzed for GW2 because of major paradigm shifts (away from formula MMOs) like this.

So there we go, data mine the patch and sure enough….

It’s the same tired old power creep system that we were sold on giving up.

Even Colin J. said in another thread that Legendary weapons won’t be gear-improved until ascended weapons come out “far in the future” so they intend to drag out the gear grind over a long period of time…. (Though OOPS, they were upgraded, so…)

Well people who are bored without gear tiers sure won’t be sucked in to long drawn out gear tiers instead of none. This literally solves no problems of “bridging gaps” while insulting and maddening some of us.

So again… arenanet. Are you executing your vision of the game with this?

Tell us now. We deserve that much.