Guild Wars 2

at this point the original specs… not all of them but the good majority of them is just outright bad compared to the elite specs that we have now and is coming….

90% of people running elite specs…

the Meta is mostly elite specs…

and it seems like the original specs are totaly forgotten with barely any changes happening to them….

any news on this ?

What do you expect? Each expansion HAS to sell for some reason, and one of the reasons is that the new elite specs it gives access to are simply better then anything you can achieve without the expansion. There is no point designing new elite specs that are worse then free classes.

Whatever new expansions has, will be better again. And everyone will run those.

And there will be even less balance between classes and specs, because of huge number of different combinations you have to deal with. With only base game you got 8 professions, with HoT you get 9 professions AND each class could use elite too. With PoF you have people who still got access to base game only, people who got HoT only, people who got PoF only and people who got both HoT and PoF. That is many times more possible ways to build and use your character, over 3 different gamemodes (PvE, PvP and WvW).

Even if someone is using the elite spec they’re also using 2 core specs. So they’re hardly forgotten or abandoned. Even if 100% of people were using elite specs they’d also be using the core specs alongside them.

And it will be the same when PoF is released because Anet have already said the new elite specs will only be able to go in the 3rd slot, so it will be one or the other, you can’t have both elite specs together.

Spec would sell anyway even if they would be equal because well they are new specs…with new gameplay…

how about buffing most of the useless Specs then ?

In fact core traitlines are not really forgotten. Barrier mechanism will be introduced with core ele traits. And there was also the mechanism of ammunition also but it is still all very vague so we will see tomorrow.

Danikat.8537:

Even if someone is using the elite spec they’re also using 2 core specs. So they’re hardly forgotten or abandoned. Even if 100% of people were using elite specs they’d also be using the core specs alongside them.

And it will be the same when PoF is released because Anet have already said the new elite specs will only be able to go in the 3rd slot, so it will be one or the other, you can’t have both elite specs together.

and ? the core specs are nothing else in this case then just some Buffer for the Elite spec that you actualy use…..

I’m okay, I think, with elite specs being slightly better than core specs since your build will still be comprised of two core specs, but there was a problem with only having one available – you were pigeonholed into a single role based on your profession, which completely goes against the game’s intended design.

I think adding a new elite spec and therefore every profession having the option of two will significantly improve this status quo for this expansion relative to HoT, as long as they don’t make the new elite specs blatantly stronger than the HoT elite specs, which I hope and expect they won’t.

Yes, core builds, except for a couple niche ones, are gone and forgotten. One person above misunderstood the presence of core trait lines meaning that core builds were still relevant—not so. Anet has chosen to simply create new fotm options, i.e., too powerful to pass up. It’s pretty much the opposite of fostering true build diversity but it’s the road Anet has taken and it looks like PoF simply continues down that path.

Zoltreez.6435:

and it seems like the original specs are totaly forgotten with barely any changes happening to them….

any news on this ?

The core specs and HoT elite specs will get a revamp and rebalance before PoF is released. We will see some nifty new things on the core specs soon, like barrier on elementalist.

FogLeg.9354:

What do you expect? Each expansion HAS to sell for some reason, and one of the reasons is that the new elite specs it gives access to are simply better then anything you can achieve without the expansion. (…snip)

While a certain degree of cynicism can be excused, I don’t agree.

The new elite specs aren’t better because they’re selling HoT (although this is subjective, I do agre that they are, overall, better) or PoF but because of their place in time.

The original specs are operating in a framework that is at best obsolescent and at worst irrelevant. They carry numerous hangovers, appendixes and design decisions based on the game at (and before) launch. While most have enjoyed substantial changes in almost every respect, the core design of each and their range of approaches are constrained by respecting these legacies and ensuring that those who enjoy or rely on them can continue to do so.

The elite specs are built on the game as it is now. This imparts a wealth of relevance by virtue of the contemporary concerns the designers are armed with when contemplating the game as it is today. All this explains why they’re better; they’re built atop the mistakes (corrected or discarded) and successes (elaborated on and shared) of the core specs.

but how do you buff core specs without simultaneously buffing the elites?
if you make core things better then the people with elite specs will simply incorporate them into their spec.

make axes and blood magic better for necros and you’ll have reapers taking blood magic and using axes.
make staff and fire tree better for eles and you’ll have weavers using staffs and the fire tree.

I think you are forgetting that eSpecs are still 2/3 core specs too.

Liewec.2896:

but how do you buff core specs without simultaneously buffing the elites?
if you make core things better then the people with elite specs will simply incorporate them into their spec.

make axes and blood magic better for necros and you’ll have reapers taking blood magic and using axes.
make staff and fire tree better for eles and you’ll have weavers using staffs and the fire tree.

The way to do it and promote true build diversity is to treat all potential specs the same. What do I mean by that? In some sense you need to anticipate what builds are present; the builds you are creating. And, what you are doing is packaging various trade-offs. Different builds offer different playstyles and counters to game mechanics and other player’s. You have elements such as direct damage and DOT damage, sustained damage and burst damage. You don’t set out to make anything more powerful, you want interesting playstyles and counters to everything, which make for interesting playstyles.

The problem here is that Anet is not trying to achieve balance, and it’s elusive regardless, but rather they are selling something new and making sure it is shiny.

dace.8019:

While a certain degree of cynicism can be excused, I don’t agree.

The new elite specs aren’t better because they’re selling HoT (although this is subjective, I do agre that they are, overall, better) or PoF but because of their place in time.

One does not exclude the other.

Sure, designers could be better at this point of game, they could have better tools and better testing environment. They could also design new specs for specific maps and specific enemies in mind, giving them more boost to overcome challenges new areas provide.

And still, please try to sell expansion to the free game that would make all the existing characters WEAKER. Just imagine all the complaints from the players who payed actual money only to discover part of the stuff they payed for, is useless. I am not even trying to say Anet is specially greedy or intentionally sneaky about this, no, this applies to every similar game. There has to be something extra for people to pay for.

As far as I would like the idea of purely cosmetic expansion where you unlock new skins because they look cool and explore new maps because it is fun thing to do, while your character does not improve at all, this would only work on pure-PvE game. Players fight each other here, and even the smallest possible increase in strength, and so the chance to win, is heavily abused.