Guild Wars 2

well we loved , GVG HoH, Capes , Anet run mats/sats/dats , Hardmode , End game worlds

Lots of builds/templates/skills

all i can think of for now

GW3 will be just like this hehehehe ‘’everything that you loved in GW2’’….

Well, you see, not everyone ‘loved’ the same things. I did not care for/about some (most) of the things on your list, and I am ambivalent about whether they are ever implemented in Guild Wars 2.

Thus, rather than ‘we’, you might consider ‘I’. =)

Hardmode and capes I can agree was nice… however, you wont see hard mode in here.
Why? Because gw1 was not an MMO. It was a multiplayer game, with a lobby in each town.

They would have to change the fundamental structure of the game to implement Hardmode, the same way they did in gw1.
HOWEVER
They might implement something akin to hardmode though the living story. "if you are playing during this episode of the living story, the world looks like THIS, but if you are in That episode, the world looks like that…
I think this could happen, because if something does not happen akin to that, there wont be any replay-ability in the past seasons of the living story.

Decrypter.1785:

well we loved , GVG HoH, Capes , Anet run mats/sats/dats , Hardmode , End game worlds

Lots of builds/templates/skills

all i can think of for now

I didn’t love GvG, I didn’t love HoH, I could do without capes. Please try not to talk for everyone.

And you know, it’s a four year old line already. Can we move on?

Decrypter.1785:

well we loved , GVG HoH, Capes , Anet run mats/sats/dats , Hardmode , End game worlds

Lots of builds/templates/skills

all i can think of for now

No Hardmode – too hard with an open world like GW2.

GvG – can do it already – make an sPvP arena and 5 v 5 away.

In a living game world, there IS NO END GAME. END GAME, just means that, end of game.

HoH – well since the 6 Gods are gone from the world, there can be no HoH.

- Hard mode would work in instanced areas.

Other things they dropped from GW1…

- Eight-player parties.

- The old radar that revealed a lot more than our mini-map does now and had tiny green dots for NPC, purple for real people, and red for enemies.

- The little blue silhouette icon over people and a number next to it saying how many people are in their party. (if brought back, this could be toggled on/off
— OR, make it so you can see how many people are in the “leaders” (or top) person’s party. This also aids in finding people who are in a party or looking for a party — AND it gives the illusion that more people are in the world with you)

- Alliances (as opposed to being in 2-3 guilds)

- Auto-follow (as a support specialist, just click on your “tank” and keep hitting space. Also, if you see an enemy, hitting c-space (or in GW2’s case, c-skill 1) would automatically run your character up to it)

- Using the arrow keys to pan/tilt the camera.

- Being able to zoom out farther. Much, much farther.

- “Zooming all the way in” to first person view. (Not ideal in combat situations for some, but makes traversing vast zones more scenic and taking the most desired screenshots of GW2’s gorgeous landscape)

- Being able to observe PvP from anywhere in the game with the ‘b’ key (and not losing your place in the world)

- When attacking, auto moving in range.

- Being able to ping your build template.

- Weapon swap bar.

- Customizable HUDs.

- Repeatable missions.

- I really miss seeing rankings in GvG: #22 South Central [cent] vs. #261 Plus Hiding [og]. It really gave you that feeling of an upset if the under-ranked team came out on top. I could see something like this working for WvW on a lesser scale.

- The chk chk sound if that skill was recharging or you were out of energy.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Decrypter.1785:

well we loved , GVG HoH, Capes , Anet run mats/sats/dats , Hardmode , End game worlds

Lots of builds/templates/skills

all i can think of for now

No Hardmode – too hard with an open world like GW2.

GvG – can do it already – make an sPvP arena and 5 v 5 away.

In a living game world, there IS NO END GAME. END GAME, just means that, end of game.

HoH – well since the 6 Gods are gone from the world, there can be no HoH.

You can still have an endgame in an open world. Endgame is anything that is locked until you hit max level. It’s just content to keep people interested in the game.

There’s no way that any line such as the OP is about could be considered anything but hype, hyperbole, or both. I doubt anyone was fooled into thinking that everything they personally liked about GW would find its way into GW2. Imo, it’s more like players who fall back on lines like this one are looking to find a way to try to shame ANet into giving them what they want. Ask for what you want all you want, but leave the hyperbole unspoken, please. It’s not fooling anyone.

It’s called advertising for a reason.

I can assure you your Macdonald humbergar don’t look like the ones in the advertisement.

There are some similarity between GW1 and GW2, and they try to sell that idea too much.

For me that statement is true. I never played GvG or HoH and I still don’t understand some peoples obsession with capes, if it didn’t keep coming up on this forum I’d probably never have thought twice about them.

For me the major selling points of GW1 were:

• It’s an MMO with no subscription or pay-to-win
• No gear treadmill
• You can change your build without having to delete and re-make the character
• To a lesser extent the art style.

And all of those are still present in GW2.

Dusty Moon.4382:

In a living game world, there IS NO END GAME. END GAME, just means that, end of game.

End Game means max level content. Not the “end of the game”.
MMO used to be about the leveling process more than max level. Being max level was pretty much the goal and in a way the end of the game. Newer MMO trivialized the leveling process because lazy casuals wanted to be powerful like the max levels but without spending the same amount of time and effort.
So now we get max level in no time but have nothing to do because the game was about leveling, but they removed that part. So the devs have to make what we know as “end game content”. Content for when we’re done leveling.

Decrypter.1785:

well we loved , GVG HoH, Capes , Anet run mats/sats/dats , Hardmode , End game worlds

Lots of builds/templates/skills

all i can think of for now

What is it with the capes? I don’t understand. I logged into GW1 the other day and saw people running around with the raggedy capes….why so much love for these things?

If you miss it so much, there is the Guild Back Banner or any of the Guild Backpacks that show the emblem and look so much better than silly capes. I mean…really now.

To me GW1 & GW2 are about as equal as the left and the right Twix, all they (GW1 & 2) share today are a wrapper (name) and a driveway (Anet). /sarcasm

Though, as you can see in this thread, what people liked in GW1 differs by a large margin. Even how they look at ‘how it is manifested in GW2’ differs. F/e taking Danikat’s points, and how view them:

1. GW1 was an expansion driven, non pay-to-win non subscription game. While the non pay to win stayed, GW2 is no longer expansion driven, but it is game-shop driven. And this becomes more and more clear through how the various features in the game are set up.

2. GW1 had no gear treadmill, there was a clear max in fairly easy to obtain maximum ‘armour, weapons, runes’ (the hardest to obtain was probably the superior rune of HP). GW2 on the other hand, has a gear treadmill build in, even though the stat increases (from exotic to ascended/legendary) are so minimal they might as well be considered negligible, the stat increase between rare and exotic is not. While one could argue that all exotic armour can be crafted, the prices for these items in-game or on the TP are so major that were there no crafting, it could almost be seen as a ‘pay-to-win’ kind of management of the economy. Also, the addition of Ascended weapons, is exactly what a gear treadmill is, adding new higher stat weapons as a way to extend gameplay beyond it’s natural life.

3. Build Changing… this is the one that I would oppose most as being in GW2, actually, the whole system seems to very much be favouring locking people into a certain build, mainly through armour & runes. And while this wouldn’t be such a problem if the game was balanced properly, and the reward system rewarded all kinds of contributions to the fight (support & CC); but fact of the matter is the game is not! This means that if you play the game as you want, is not playing the game optimally, and the way the economy is managed and thus the prices for armour & runes are, once you make ‘a wrong’ choice, you are screwed until you manage to grind enough gold (which may well be around 150G) just to change your build.

Compare that to GW1 where you could just goto a rune-seller and buy a different rune for 200silver or so (foregoing a few that cost more, mainly the HP rune at 20g or so), and change your build around entirely, if you didn’t have all sorts of runes drop on you already.

And sure, in GW2, you can swap your weapon and skills, you can even re-pick your traits easily. But that is only around 30% of your build and effectiveness, the rest comes from weapons/armour/runes. And they dictate how effective your ‘build’ will be, and with their prices, GW2 isn’t at all as flexible as GW1.

4. The art style and technology for the art were a major improvement to GW, as well as full 3 axis gameplay.

What we lost in the next contribution…

What we lost though:

A. While I realise that from the 150/200 or so skills per profession in GW1, even with a dual profession system, only a small portion of them were actually used in the most viable builds. But due to the large amount of skills, ‘balance’ changes were almost always interesting as skills faded in or out of the meta.

Also, due to a large amount of builds usually involving 4 to 5 skills (including an elite), there was the option to gear 3 to 4 skills to your individual preference or play style. And where there were specialized builds (all 8 skills were needed), they usually involved an entirely different play style (f/e BiP builds) that were a challenge to learn and offered a nice change of pace, and were only needed in a few specific maps.

The amount of skills and the build options in GW2 are really saddening, objectively speaking there are roughly 4 builds per profession, which are cut apart and mingled together. Due to ‘balance’ choices, only 1 or 2 of them are actually viable, and within these builds there is absolute no freedom to do your own thing.

although I realize that I’m likely fairly biased, as just messing around with builds was something I liked doing on a regular basis; simply trying to find something new or interesting.

B. The reason for dumbing down the skill system was said to be done due to a lack of understanding from players, in regards to the complexity of the game. Same was said for conditions and buffs.

But I would argue that the current system in GW2 is even more complex, yet, the complexity isn’t an interesting one based upon build choices. It is complex due to the large amount stat combo’s and trying to figure out which one would benefit your build the most.

Now look at the conditions, GW1 had 10 of them, GW2 has 12. I will say that the amount of ‘Boons’, which can be compared to ‘enchantments’ in GW1, has received a considerable reduction, from 261 enchantments, down to 9 boon effects. I am sure I do not have to explain how this made the boons less interesting as a play style. The same can be said by removing the 264 Hexes that were in GW1, because ‘yes’ in a sense they can be viewed as ‘conditions’, so the reduction was there, from 274 individual hexes & conditions down to 12 conditions.

Design problem with both of them the human mind can only process about 7 different things at a time; preferably you subcategorise anything that comes above 6 (maybe even 5). So having 12 different conditions is cognitive bad design, it doesn’t make it one bit easier than having 274 different things … It would have been cognitively better to subcategorise in something like: Conditions (5-6) , Effects (5-6), Curses (5-6), Hexes (5-6). Obviously the same can be said by boons, subcategories like Boons (5-6), Enchantments (5-6).

C. While I acknowledge that the large amount of damage types in GW1 may have been confusing (fire, ice, shadow, physical, etc http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Damage_type ); doing away with them entirely made the game increasingly more boring, and to some extend less believable. Burning a Lava creature is one of the most laughable things in GW2 and somewhat of an insult to the RPG genre as a whole…

Here the same cognitive limit applies (as with conditions & boons), limiting this feature to 6 would make it easier to comprehend and process. F/e limiting them to elemental types (fire, ice, earth, water, physical) and resistance to them would have been enough to provide an interesting and believable system. Add to this Defiance and you have a system of 6…

D. Where the system in GW1 consisted of ‘7’ stats, 1 being the profession specific stat, and 6 (2x 3 – 3 for each of 2 professions) typical stats, with corresponding runes. With a corresponding restriction to the min-req. on weapons. Staying within the cognitive limit (or close to it at least).

We now have 16 different stats, where some of them are also a ‘hidden’ combination of 2 of them. Not only runes provide stats, but also the armour, and the weapons, as well as traits. Well I have already pointed out how the GW2 system is more complex in a boring sense, and more confusion than GW1. This is the how and why in my views.

! E ! And the worst part of all this is, the system above is to me what made GW1 the game GW1 was. Because you could place this system in any other plane (aka. on Mars instead of on Tyria), and in a completely different lore setting. With or without PvP, or guilds, with bigger groups or smaller, or w/e. And the game would ‘play’ the same. … so to me we lost a lot of the essence of GW1 in the design of GW2, and this is the main gripe I have with the game… plus, that where GW2 has been dumbed down in various area’s it hasn’t become cognitively easier to understand, and where the complexity at first was in the interesting part of the game (skills) it now is in the uninteresting part (stats).

So what do I like about GW2 gameplay design?

The resurrection this was a non-choice in GW1, or rather, not taking a res could slow or even entirely kitten your effort. The GW2 system is far superior.

The weapons! Using the weapons the way they are makes that 50% of the skill choices have been preselected, making it simpler to make a viable build. Another is the healing skill, making it so that survivability is somewhat guaranteed. To some extend I also like the Elite Choice, for as far as supplying a choice that always works, yet at the same time it makes the choice trivial, so it no longer becomes a really interesting part of your build.

Obviously in this system I do not like how we hardly have any choice left, there are 3 ‘choice’ skills, I say ‘choice’ because due to how the traits are set up you are usually best off to pick 1 category of the 5 provided, and stick with them. And I tend to pick 2 and supplement it with 1 other skill that is just to useful to omit.

This limit to interesting choice is why I suggested adding choice skills to weapons on #2 & #4 as well as adding more skills to the utility slots. This would mean there are 5 slots to pick, which would actually be more than the true choices in GW1, where a build and a res-signet usually reduced actual true choice to about 3 to 4 skills. As well as add more choices…

Now obviously the choices would never become as interesting as those in GW1 but it would be a start to lifting GW2 to a more agreeable game system for wearing the ‘GuildWars’ name…

They took the level 20 end game and quadrupled it! Awesomesauce!

Arghore.8340:

What we lost though:

A. While I realise that from the 150/200 or so skills per profession in GW1, even with a dual profession system, only a small portion of them were actually used in the most viable builds. But due to the large amount of skills, ‘balance’ changes were almost always interesting as skills faded in or out of the meta.

Also, due to a large amount of builds usually involving 4 to 5 skills (including an elite), there was the option to gear 3 to 4 skills to your individual preference or play style. And where there were specialized builds (all 8 skills were needed), they usually involved an entirely different play style (f/e BiP builds) that were a challenge to learn and offered a nice change of pace, and were only needed in a few specific maps.

The amount of skills and the build options in GW2 are really saddening, objectively speaking there are roughly 4 builds per profession, which are cut apart and mingled together. Due to ‘balance’ choices, only 1 or 2 of them are actually viable, and within these builds there is absolute no freedom to do your own thing.

although I realize that I’m likely fairly biased, as just messing around with builds was something I liked doing on a regular basis; simply trying to find something new or interesting.

B. The reason for dumbing down the skill system was said to be done due to a lack of understanding from players, in regards to the complexity of the game. Same was said for conditions and buffs.

But I would argue that the current system in GW2 is even more complex, yet, the complexity isn’t an interesting one based upon build choices. It is complex due to the large amount stat combo’s and trying to figure out which one would benefit your build the most.

Now look at the conditions, GW1 had 10 of them, GW2 has 12. I will say that the amount of ‘Boons’, which can be compared to ‘enchantments’ in GW1, has received a considerable reduction, from 261 enchantments, down to 9 boon effects. I am sure I do not have to explain how this made the boons less interesting as a play style. The same can be said by removing the 264 Hexes that were in GW1, because ‘yes’ in a sense they can be viewed as ‘conditions’, so the reduction was there, from 274 individual hexes & conditions down to 12 conditions.

Design problem with both of them the human mind can only process about 7 different things at a time; preferably you subcategorise anything that comes above 6 (maybe even 5). So having 12 different conditions is cognitive bad design, it doesn’t make it one bit easier than having 274 different things … It would have been cognitively better to subcategorise in something like: Conditions (5-6) , Effects (5-6), Curses (5-6), Hexes (5-6). Obviously the same can be said by boons, subcategories like Boons (5-6), Enchantments (5-6).

C. While I acknowledge that the large amount of damage types in GW1 may have been confusing (fire, ice, shadow, physical, etc http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Damage_type ); doing away with them entirely made the game increasingly more boring, and to some extend less believable. Burning a Lava creature is one of the most laughable things in GW2 and somewhat of an insult to the RPG genre as a whole…

Here the same cognitive limit applies (as with conditions & boons), limiting this feature to 6 would make it easier to comprehend and process. F/e limiting them to elemental types (fire, ice, earth, water, physical) and resistance to them would have been enough to provide an interesting and believable system. Add to this Defiance and you have a system of 6…

D. Where the system in GW1 consisted of ‘7’ stats, 1 being the profession specific stat, and 6 (2x 3 – 3 for each of 2 professions) typical stats, with corresponding runes. With a corresponding restriction to the min-req. on weapons. Staying within the cognitive limit (or close to it at least).

We now have 16 different stats, where some of them are also a ‘hidden’ combination of 2 of them. Not only runes provide stats, but also the armour, and the weapons, as well as traits. Well I have already pointed out how the GW2 system is more complex in a boring sense, and more confusion than GW1. This is the how and why in my views.

I agree with everything you said here. Really succinct synopsis on the differences between the games.

Well kitten , someone’s a year late to the party.

I suppose we’ll never reach the point where people stop bringing up pre-release stuff.

Vayne.8563:

Decrypter.1785:

well we loved , GVG HoH, Capes , Anet run mats/sats/dats , Hardmode , End game worlds

Lots of builds/templates/skills

all i can think of for now

I didn’t love GvG, I didn’t love HoH, I could do without capes. Please try not to talk for everyone.

And you know, it’s a four year old line already. Can we move on?

Isn’t Arenanet the one that spoke for everyone? Maybe they are to blame and not the customer base that interprets it exactly as they said it. Sounds like they are making very bold statements that wouldn’t be true for everyone.

Fernling.1729:

Vayne.8563:

Decrypter.1785:

well we loved , GVG HoH, Capes , Anet run mats/sats/dats , Hardmode , End game worlds

Lots of builds/templates/skills

all i can think of for now

I didn’t love GvG, I didn’t love HoH, I could do without capes. Please try not to talk for everyone.

And you know, it’s a four year old line already. Can we move on?

Isn’t Arenanet the one that spoke for everyone? Maybe they are to blame and not the customer base that interprets it exactly as they said it. Sounds like they are making very bold statements that wouldn’t be true for everyone.

Lots of companies make “bold statements” that should never be interpreted as anything but hyperbole. Consumers are indeed at fault for being gullible. Or, that’s what I’d say if these questions were genuine. As it is, people use ANet’s statements to try to get the company to change the game to exactly the way they want. That’s as cynical, if not more so, than a company trying to sell a product. If you’d rather I believe that consumers are idiots, well, I can to some degree. But come on, a general statement about GW2 appealing to GW players? If anything, it’s an invitation to look further. If someone bought the game based on that statement alone, they deserve what they got.

Well, Arghore wins the forumz.
+ over 1 million and a bag of cookies

moiraine.2753:

GW3 will be just like this hehehehe ‘’everything that you loved in GW2’’….

It’ll be accurate this time, because there’s not much.

The thing I miss most about GW1 was the awesome, unparalleled in any game level of build and gameplay depth.

Something that this game sorely lacks. And no, before someone says it: adjusting stats through gear choices is not depth, and neither is dodge-rolling.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Fernling.1729:

Vayne.8563:

Decrypter.1785:

well we loved , GVG HoH, Capes , Anet run mats/sats/dats , Hardmode , End game worlds

Lots of builds/templates/skills

all i can think of for now

I didn’t love GvG, I didn’t love HoH, I could do without capes. Please try not to talk for everyone.

And you know, it’s a four year old line already. Can we move on?

Isn’t Arenanet the one that spoke for everyone? Maybe they are to blame and not the customer base that interprets it exactly as they said it. Sounds like they are making very bold statements that wouldn’t be true for everyone.

Lots of companies make “bold statements” that should never be interpreted as anything but hyperbole. Consumers are indeed at fault for being gullible. Or, that’s what I’d say if these questions were genuine. As it is, people use ANet’s statements to try to get the company to change the game to exactly the way they want. That’s as cynical, if not more so, than a company trying to sell a product. If you’d rather I believe that consumers are idiots, well, I can to some degree. But come on, a general statement about GW2 appealing to GW players? If anything, it’s an invitation to look further. If someone bought the game based on that statement alone, they deserve what they got.

+ over 2 million and two bags of cookies. You’re the real winner.

It’s ok if the things said above went over your head. No one needs 2 bags of rotten cookies, much less a locust swarm counting 2m.
;)