Guild Wars 2

broken thread

lordkrall.7241:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

I hate it when people use that lame excuse. Yes they do need to make money and they are making tons of it.
Arenanet already showed they could make money off just selling the game with out a real money store or a subscription needed. Now they are doing the same business model plus they have the real money store. They should being doing extremely better and have plenty of resources to invest in the game and not just the store. The only reason they wouldn’t be making that money now is because people are tired of spending money on a stagnant game. If they want to be stubborn and keep saying we know you really enjoyed the game at launch but that is all the content we are ever going to give you except for the LS and gemstore, then the game is going to die. The game already is getting a bad reputation on the internet. How bad does it have to get before some positive change happen here?

If the bold part is referring to Guild Wars 1 you are missing the fact that it did have a in-game store for the vast majority of its life. Which contained actual in-game advantages no less.

Are you trying to say that the store that was added years after it launched was the primary focus and that it made them more money then all the boxes sold? I remember when the store launched and all you could get was more character slots and the expansions. Then when they made it so you could have a pvp character with everything unlocked for balanced arena pvp they started selling skills in the store. I will agree that is an advantage for PVE but everything was on an even playing field for PVP. Are you saying there is not more in-game advantages in the current gemstore? Day one in Guild Wars I could not pull out my credit card and buy what ever I wanted including the best weapons in the game like I can in GW2. Trying to make Guild Wars sound pay to win when GW2 is 10x more pay to win is silly.

And what does that one thing you picked really matter out of everything I said anyways. Arenanet made tons of money with the original Guild Wars and they did not focus on the real money store. Now they are making even more money but they are putting out less content. It does show they figured out how to make more money with less work but from what I see its not sustainable. Then again maybe if they make the same amount or more money in less time maybe they don’t care if the game dies out. Especially since they have the megaservers to keep things looking populated until everything goes down to one instance each so they can milk it for every last penny they can get.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Are you trying to say that the store that was added years after it launched was the primary focus and that it made them more money then all the boxes sold? I remember when the store launched and all you could get was more character slots and the expansions. Then when they made it so you could have a pvp character with everything unlocked for balanced arena pvp they started selling skills in the store. I will agree that is an advantage for PVE but everything was on an even playing field for PVP. Are you saying there is not more in-game advantages in the current gemstore? Day one in Guild Wars I could not pull out my credit card and buy what ever I wanted including the best weapons in the game like I can in GW2. Trying to make Guild Wars sound pay to win when GW2 is 10x more pay to win is silly.

Years after? The in-game store in GW1 was released July 28, 2006 which was only a few months after Factions and only about 1,5 year after release of Prophecies, and before the release of the last campaign and the expansion.

And no, PvP in GW1 was not an even playing field. You still had to manually unlock the vast majority of skills, or you could take out your credit card and buy them all, thus bypassing the grind for either faction or in PvE-playing. A new account that just started playing had only a very basic skill-bar unlocked in PvP, not everything as you seem to imply.

How is being able to buy the best weapon in GW2 by trading gems for gold any more of an advantage than to be able to pay money to unlock the skills in GW1? You are also ignoring the fact that you could buy mercenary heroes in GW1, which basically made it possible to create AI-parties that were 100% impossible without paying.

lordkrall.7241:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Are you trying to say that the store that was added years after it launched was the primary focus and that it made them more money then all the boxes sold? I remember when the store launched and all you could get was more character slots and the expansions. Then when they made it so you could have a pvp character with everything unlocked for balanced arena pvp they started selling skills in the store. I will agree that is an advantage for PVE but everything was on an even playing field for PVP. Are you saying there is not more in-game advantages in the current gemstore? Day one in Guild Wars I could not pull out my credit card and buy what ever I wanted including the best weapons in the game like I can in GW2. Trying to make Guild Wars sound pay to win when GW2 is 10x more pay to win is silly.

Years after? The in-game store in GW1 was released July 28, 2006 which was only a few months after Factions and only about 1,5 year after release of Prophecies, and before the release of the last campaign and the expansion.

And no, PvP in GW1 was not an even playing field. You still had to manually unlock the vast majority of skills, or you could take out your credit card and buy them all, thus bypassing the grind for either faction or in PvE-playing. A new account that just started playing had only a very basic skill-bar unlocked in PvP, not everything as you seem to imply.

How is being able to buy the best weapon in GW2 by trading gems for gold any more of an advantage than to be able to pay money to unlock the skills in GW1? You are also ignoring the fact that you could buy mercenary heroes in GW1, which basically made it possible to create AI-parties that were 100% impossible without paying.

On the skill unlock thing you may have a point, but since it was released together with the PvP access kit I suspect it was implemented for those who didn’t have PvE to unlock skills as an alternative.
But I really don’t understand why the mercenaries would be an advantage. There were at least 2 but mainly 3 from every profession in heroes not counting Razah.

Scipio.3204:

On the skill unlock thing you may have a point, but since it was released together with the PvP access kit I suspect it was implemented for those who didn’t have PvE to unlock skills as an alternative.
But I really don’t understand why the mercenaries would be an advantage. There were at least 2 but mainly 3 from every profession in heroes not counting Razah.

Indeed, 3 and 4 if you counted Razah since it could change.
With the mercenary packs however you could make parties that were completely impossible to create on your own otherwise though. Such as parties full with necros or a bunch of Rits. It is more the fact that you were able to get something that actually effected actual game-play that were not naturally available by paying. We have nothing of that sort of thing in GW2.

Scipio.3204:

lordkrall.7241:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Are you trying to say that the store that was added years after it launched was the primary focus and that it made them more money then all the boxes sold? I remember when the store launched and all you could get was more character slots and the expansions. Then when they made it so you could have a pvp character with everything unlocked for balanced arena pvp they started selling skills in the store. I will agree that is an advantage for PVE but everything was on an even playing field for PVP. Are you saying there is not more in-game advantages in the current gemstore? Day one in Guild Wars I could not pull out my credit card and buy what ever I wanted including the best weapons in the game like I can in GW2. Trying to make Guild Wars sound pay to win when GW2 is 10x more pay to win is silly.

Years after? The in-game store in GW1 was released July 28, 2006 which was only a few months after Factions and only about 1,5 year after release of Prophecies, and before the release of the last campaign and the expansion.

And no, PvP in GW1 was not an even playing field. You still had to manually unlock the vast majority of skills, or you could take out your credit card and buy them all, thus bypassing the grind for either faction or in PvE-playing. A new account that just started playing had only a very basic skill-bar unlocked in PvP, not everything as you seem to imply.

How is being able to buy the best weapon in GW2 by trading gems for gold any more of an advantage than to be able to pay money to unlock the skills in GW1? You are also ignoring the fact that you could buy mercenary heroes in GW1, which basically made it possible to create AI-parties that were 100% impossible without paying.

On the skill unlock thing you may have a point, but since it was released together with the PvP access kit I suspect it was implemented for those who didn’t have PvE to unlock skills as an alternative.
But I really don’t understand why the mercenaries would be an advantage. There were at least 2 but mainly 3 from every profession in heroes not counting Razah.

The mercenaries were your own level 20 characters. I had an Necro/Ritualist mercenary party that would have 20 to 30 minions going at all times once they got started. They healed and gave the Rit weapons.They rolled over the regular PvE content.

Vayne.8563:

With an MMO you’re still putting content into the game

Anet is taking a whole new approach with the last updates, removing content and checking how it works out.

lordkrall.7241:

you were able to get something that actually effected actual game-play that were not naturally available by paying. We have nothing of that sort of thing in GW2.

I wouldn’t entirely agree on that. All kind of booster, makes leveling faster or maybe (I doubt it ever happened) you’ll get a precursor drop because you activated a MF booster you just bought.Stat boosters. If you want to fully enjoy costume brawl buy costumes. Mistfire elite skill, banker golem for starter chars with a starter ring (Also large amount of PvP glory til they removed that). And what I regret most I bought : the infinity coin. These effect gameplay too.

Astral Projections.7320:

Essence Snow.3194:

Vayne.8563:

No difference in hosting, major difference in bandwidth. It’s not as simple as what he was talking about. Not to mention, a lot of stuff is a lot more expensive today then back then. A staff of 350 in a bigger office is a lot more to maintain than a staff of 50.

But there’s a lot more complexity in getting 150 people playing together on a the same screen at the same time with better graphics. It’s just a different product. It can’t be compared.

There’s not a chance in heck that they have 350 ppl working for Anet on gw2 atm. That might have been the case during development or prior to the china release (although I think KZ took much of that burden), but atm, there’s simply no way.

I was also under the impression that Anet was fond of sub-contractors…….ie many of those that used to work on the game were only there when needed. Thus now since they are not needed, they are not there. This explains why we have minimal reflection from what once was a much larger group.

I’d wager that there’s maybe 35 employees tops at Anet actively working on the game itself atm.

From February 2014: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-14-you-thought-that-was-it-for-guild-wars-2

“As for dwindling investment, it appears to be a myth: ArenaNet had a whopping 300 people when Guild Wars 2 launched, and now… now there are 350 and counting – ArenaNet is hiring.”

1/19/2013 size of live teams
http://dulfy.net/2013/01/19/gw2-colin-johanson-mmorpg-livestream-transcript-jan-18/
“In GW1 we had a really small live team because the game wasn’t big enough to generate a consistent revenue. The gems/micro-transaction based model allow us to have a much larger live team in GW2, allowing players to see much more content on a monthly basis.
Our live team in GW2 is 15-20 times larger than the live team in GW1.”

Yes those numbers account for the launch and the China release and include subs (which most likely are not there anymore).

If you look at glassdoor and several recent ex-employees that have made comments on the matter, the actual base is nowhere near the size of those numbers (300-350).

I’m actually stunned that people think 300-350 people would be able to keep their jobs if their jobs resulted in what we’ve seen in terms of this game. That many people are capable of so much more.

Essence Snow.3194:

I’m actually stunned that people think 300-350 people would be able to keep their jobs if their jobs resulted in what we’ve seen in terms of this game. That many people are capable of so much more.

It almost seems like a bad retailer with those numbers, where all you get is a bunch of low paid employees who can’t really stick around or communicate good ideas to release anything note worthy.

Even if they have ~300 which is apparently a very large increase from GW1 where exactly is their efforts being pumped into? I’m sure many people were excited for LS 2 with the promises that were made and it was pretty good, for about a week and then I waited an extra week for my next piece of candy to chew on, rinse-> repeat. Not enough content that is worth replaying and most certainly not the kind of quality content that has seen praise in the past. They started up some good combat formulas and then ditched it for the zerg busters again.

I’ve already hit my breaking point with this game after enough frustration caused me to say some pretty nasty things to people in pvp. Between the trolls, the lack of good content and the poor company decisions all I’m gana do is check on the forums and see whats up time to time. I really see no reason to support Anet anymore with gem purchases if this is the experience I get month after month.

Simzani.4318:

From the work done since launch, we know they have :
- a LS team

We know they don’t have :
- a dungeon team
- a class design team
- a balance team
- a www/pvp team
- a bug hunting team

—snip—

Let me correct you here, they have 4(four) LS teams, that is necessary to cover the every 2 week release schedule, which can be interrupted at any time to allow said teams to work on bigger LS releases. You need overlap with different teams working on content quite a bit ahead of time.

They do have a WvW/PvP team, they also handle balance issues, that’s Chaps department.

You do not know they don’t have:

- a class design team
- a bug hunting team

Bugs are most likely handled by the team that designed and implemented a specific piece of content or event, etc.. That’s only logical to have to people that developed it to fix it, at least without proper documentation of said processes, just like in any good programming.

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

It’s just a different product. It can’t be compared.

You may be right, then let’s compare GW2 to GW2. It took ~ 5 year development. Looking at the world at release, they made:
~ 5 zone / year.
~ 6,6 dungeon path /year
~ 0,2 PvP mode /year
~ 3,8 usable weapons / year
~ 43,2 skills /year ( weapon skills not included)
~ 46 personal story instance/year
~ 22,8 armor sets/year
~ 1 race /year
etc. on average.

Probably I miscalculated some stuff, but I guess you see my point. I know this is not how it works, but I focused purely on numbers.

The reason it doesn’t work is because the game launched in a terrible state…one so bad it took two years to get to where it is now. It needed more than five years. It’s been catch up/patch up since day one.

I’m not so sure that two more development year would have helped. Magic find stat, world servers, PvP crafting, not acc bound dye/legendary, temporary content, one time only events, 3 round PvP tournaments & lack of meaningful rewards and a lot more was bad design decision and these were changed (mostly) because of player feedback. Without player feedback they would still need to change these things even if they had 2 more years to complete what they wanted. (Got a little confused english wise, not sure I made sense)
You can always improve the game , especially on a MMO. There are still a loads of things missing that people expected at launch , even some things anet advertised. Also I don’t see any sign the next two year will be different.

You’ve got to be kidding me. Do you even realize how many events were simply broken at launch. Do you really think they wanted to launch without a trading post preview, or the ability to sort by light armor type? Do you think that stuff like the fractals weren’t already in progress before launch? Do you think they really had enough time even to make Arah story mode the dungeon it might have been.

According to a dev that I knew in game, the technology of the moving platforms that allowed them to build Arah only arrived 2 weeks before the game came out.

There’s plenty of stuff that isn’t more content or awards adjustment that could have been done before launch, including a looking for group tool, that wouldn’t have required feedback from players at all.

That’s why I said “from the work they done since launch”. Only thing sure is that they merged the 4 ls teams into one. They also gave up on the bi-weeks shedule ; for this year it will be an average 1.5-2 months for each ls release.

I don’t believe there is a www/pvp or balance team. The scarce work done since launch show that it is only a 1 man work at most. There is no class design team either, there is nothing new to class.

Some bugs are still here since launch and won’t ever be addressed. They don’t even clean their 6 months work feature patch from major bugs (see bugged collections).

The only seen work done is from the ls team, the gem store team, and what I call an UI team (wardrobe, collections, that’s only UI tweaks). I don’t believe there are other teams that never show their work since launch. If these teams exists, their work never went to live game since launch. So I think they don’t exist, it would be too sad and a shame otherwise. I guess there is no engine team either (see condition max stack).

Alex.9567:

Vayne.8563:

Alex.9567:

Increased staff should result in increased productivity, if you try argue that increasing staff leads to decreased productivity then your kidding yourself, or what you might be saying is that the reason the increase in staff hasnt lead to increased productivity is because anet has bad management, which in that case id have to agree you have a valid point.

arguing inflation is pointless because its always been a factor, it was just as relevant during gw’s1

if you want to talk difference in bandwidth yes that probably is a valid point, however not to the degree that anet is so busy paying for the extra bandwidth that they cant afford to invest anything else in significant content development.

I don’t doubt they had server issues during some of the lw, again you cant argue that’s why they haven’t been able to develop content

so it leads to 1 conclusion, namely they’re milking the cash shop for all its worth before they do release significant content.

I’ll just leave this here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks's_law

Edit: For some reason when I tested it the link didn’t work for me. Just look up Brook’s Law on Wikipedia.

Edit 2: This doesn’t even count that fact that two of the head guys walked away from the game during development, in one case taking key people with him. If you don’t think that sets a company back, not sure what to tell you.

Brooks’ law might be valid in this case, then again it might not, its difficult for a player to have the insight to know, however there are other possibility’s which seem logical, I remember reading right at launch that concept artist Kekai Kotaki was calling it quits with anet, I really wondered why, it seemed like the best time to be part of that company, about a 8 month to a year later I concluded that he must have left because he realised the direction the game was headed, these other 2 head guys you speak of, I had no idea about, but again what were their reasons? we don’t know what drove them to leave, it may very well have been that they had insight on the direction the game was headed.

Terrible conclusion. He was a concept artist. Concept artist’s are often used most heavily before the game launches. It’s extremely likely he actually had less to do later on, because he probably expected new areas to be developed faster. A lot of artistic people leave jobs because their particular talents aren’t really needed for the phase the game was in. Concept artists are almost always the first to go when a game launches. That’s very common. So what exactly is your conclusion based on?

Zaklex.6308:

Simzani.4318:

From the work done since launch, we know they have :
- a LS team

We know they don’t have :
- a dungeon team
- a class design team
- a balance team
- a www/pvp team
- a bug hunting team

—snip—

Let me correct you here, they have 4(four) LS teams, that is necessary to cover the every 2 week release schedule, which can be interrupted at any time to allow said teams to work on bigger LS releases. You need overlap with different teams working on content quite a bit ahead of time.

They do have a WvW/PvP team, they also handle balance issues, that’s Chaps department.

You do not know they don’t have:

- a class design team
- a bug hunting team

Bugs are most likely handled by the team that designed and implemented a specific piece of content or event, etc.. That’s only logical to have to people that developed it to fix it, at least without proper documentation of said processes, just like in any good programming.

I’m afraid you are mistaken. They used to have 4 Living Story teams, but with the advent of Season Two, those were consolidated into one team that varies in size and composition. You can read more about it over in the LS/LW sub-forum.

gem sales, duh.

and this is the problem with the B2P model: once you buy the game, the majority of Anet’s accountability to players to provide them with a fun experience is gone — their only financial incentive is to entice players to buy gems, not to create quality content per se.

Indeed, they are financially better off for the most part not created non-gem-store-related content so that non-spenders stop playing to save on bandwidth and hosting costs. Hence, bugger all effort devoted to balancing, WVW, sPVP.

At least with a subscription MMO, you can be sure that the company in question will bust their kitten to listen to players and make a serious effort to provide them with quality content they want to play.

And yet ANet continues to try to appeal to various demographics, who then come here to the forums to miss and poan about how it’s just not enough. I don’t like ANet’s offerings, particularly, but there are content offerings — and they’re consistent for the most part with what was advertised before launch.

It’s a shame we live in such an entitled society.

IndigoSundown.5419:

And yet ANet continues to try to appeal to various demographics, who then come here to the forums to miss and poan about how it’s just not enough. I don’t like ANet’s offerings, particularly, but there are content offerings — and they’re consistent for the most part with what was advertised before launch.

It’s a shame we live in such an entitled society.

A lot of it comes from not understanding the challenges associated with software development, and specifically game development, along with running a business. I’ve seen so many people who have “easy” answers that would be “easy” to implement. Or people crying about bug fixes, thinking that because they know the problem, they’ve been able to isolate the cause.

Essence Snow.3194:

Astral Projections.7320:

Essence Snow.3194:

Vayne.8563:

No difference in hosting, major difference in bandwidth. It’s not as simple as what he was talking about. Not to mention, a lot of stuff is a lot more expensive today then back then. A staff of 350 in a bigger office is a lot more to maintain than a staff of 50.

But there’s a lot more complexity in getting 150 people playing together on a the same screen at the same time with better graphics. It’s just a different product. It can’t be compared.

There’s not a chance in heck that they have 350 ppl working for Anet on gw2 atm. That might have been the case during development or prior to the china release (although I think KZ took much of that burden), but atm, there’s simply no way.

I was also under the impression that Anet was fond of sub-contractors…….ie many of those that used to work on the game were only there when needed. Thus now since they are not needed, they are not there. This explains why we have minimal reflection from what once was a much larger group.

I’d wager that there’s maybe 35 employees tops at Anet actively working on the game itself atm.

From February 2014: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-14-you-thought-that-was-it-for-guild-wars-2

“As for dwindling investment, it appears to be a myth: ArenaNet had a whopping 300 people when Guild Wars 2 launched, and now… now there are 350 and counting – ArenaNet is hiring.”

1/19/2013 size of live teams
http://dulfy.net/2013/01/19/gw2-colin-johanson-mmorpg-livestream-transcript-jan-18/
“In GW1 we had a really small live team because the game wasn’t big enough to generate a consistent revenue. The gems/micro-transaction based model allow us to have a much larger live team in GW2, allowing players to see much more content on a monthly basis.
Our live team in GW2 is 15-20 times larger than the live team in GW1.”

Yes those numbers account for the launch and the China release and include subs (which most likely are not there anymore).

If you look at glassdoor and several recent ex-employees that have made comments on the matter, the actual base is nowhere near the size of those numbers (300-350).

I’m actually stunned that people think 300-350 people would be able to keep their jobs if their jobs resulted in what we’ve seen in terms of this game. That many people are capable of so much more.

Are you saying that from 350 people or so in February 2014, they lost substantial numbers and no one has noticed or commented about it? That’s very interesting. I would have thought that would come out in some sort of business review or note of some kind if they lost that many people in about half a year.

Astral Projections.7320:

Essence Snow.3194:

Astral Projections.7320:

Essence Snow.3194:

Vayne.8563:

No difference in hosting, major difference in bandwidth. It’s not as simple as what he was talking about. Not to mention, a lot of stuff is a lot more expensive today then back then. A staff of 350 in a bigger office is a lot more to maintain than a staff of 50.

But there’s a lot more complexity in getting 150 people playing together on a the same screen at the same time with better graphics. It’s just a different product. It can’t be compared.

There’s not a chance in heck that they have 350 ppl working for Anet on gw2 atm. That might have been the case during development or prior to the china release (although I think KZ took much of that burden), but atm, there’s simply no way.

I was also under the impression that Anet was fond of sub-contractors…….ie many of those that used to work on the game were only there when needed. Thus now since they are not needed, they are not there. This explains why we have minimal reflection from what once was a much larger group.

I’d wager that there’s maybe 35 employees tops at Anet actively working on the game itself atm.

From February 2014: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-14-you-thought-that-was-it-for-guild-wars-2

“As for dwindling investment, it appears to be a myth: ArenaNet had a whopping 300 people when Guild Wars 2 launched, and now… now there are 350 and counting – ArenaNet is hiring.”

1/19/2013 size of live teams
http://dulfy.net/2013/01/19/gw2-colin-johanson-mmorpg-livestream-transcript-jan-18/
“In GW1 we had a really small live team because the game wasn’t big enough to generate a consistent revenue. The gems/micro-transaction based model allow us to have a much larger live team in GW2, allowing players to see much more content on a monthly basis.
Our live team in GW2 is 15-20 times larger than the live team in GW1.”

Yes those numbers account for the launch and the China release and include subs (which most likely are not there anymore).

If you look at glassdoor and several recent ex-employees that have made comments on the matter, the actual base is nowhere near the size of those numbers (300-350).

I’m actually stunned that people think 300-350 people would be able to keep their jobs if their jobs resulted in what we’ve seen in terms of this game. That many people are capable of so much more.

Are you saying that from 350 people or so in February 2014, they lost substantial numbers and no one has noticed or commented about it? That’s very interesting. I would have thought that would come out in some sort of business review or note of some kind if they lost that many people in about half a year.

It’s a public company. If they shed jobs to downsize, they’d by law have to inform the shareholders and it would have been in the news.

They officially say “around 300 employees” on their website.

http://www.arena.net/

This company’s focus is to make money, nothing more, nothing less. Anyone willing to argue different is lying to themselves.

To me it looks like Anet is going the way of EA games. Minimal effort for maximum profit ratio.

It seems to me corporate culture and the quick buck has taken precedence over making a quality product.

That day that the developer said that the most recent Twilight Arbor path was “to much work” to ever do something like that again. I knew that this game was going to die within 2 more years from today. It seems that the people in charge of this game are more concerned about their quarterly profits than they are about quality, which tends to happen when the publishing company and the developing company are two separate corporate entities.

This game will be made to suffer minimal effort for maximum profitability which will be the new business model as long as people are willing to throw money at this type of business model.

This game is about a year away from being free to play. Why? its because “credit card” gamers have become easy and lazy. To these gamers, to compare how long it takes them to earn a in game reward compared to how long it takes them to earn the real money required to buy that reward, and to choose the obviously quicker path, has become a actual rational thought process. This should scare the hale out of people that actually enjoy quality challenges inside games.

It is really the fault of the majority gamer community, because alot of us found it acceptable to translate game progress to the effort of real life currency, this is not a job, you are supposed to play the game to enjoy it, not to earn shiny stuff that give you in game social status. The practice of extracting real world money will not stop until gamers stop the practice.

This practice used to be impossible in Guild Wars 1 without breaking the TOS. And here we are in GW2 wondering why compelling content, precursor scavenger hunts, or expansions haven’t come out when the real money is to get players to desire highly time/effort gated digital items that are so compelling they swipe their credit cards.

It takes absolutely no effort for them to design a legendary, or any black lion item skin when compared to actual content that you pay for. So stop spending real money on them if you want real content. As of right now…. them designing black lion skins is entirely more profitable to them designing real content. Minimal effort for maximum profit.

As someone that has never spent a dime outside of the box price. You have all been made to play as fools. Real content won’t come until you stop giving them or any game developer money for the minimal effort that is their real money game shop. STOP SWIPING YOUR CREDIT CARDS IF YOU WANT REAL CONTENT. Even if you have to pay for that content… rather have the option to pay for an expansion than to pay for this crap in game shinies.

They don’t care about making you satisfied with the product

They don’t even care about making your experience pleasurable.

The only thing they care about is what is in your wallet.

Stop using your credit card right now.

Astral Projections.7320:

Essence Snow.3194:

Astral Projections.7320:

Essence Snow.3194:

Vayne.8563:

No difference in hosting, major difference in bandwidth. It’s not as simple as what he was talking about. Not to mention, a lot of stuff is a lot more expensive today then back then. A staff of 350 in a bigger office is a lot more to maintain than a staff of 50.

But there’s a lot more complexity in getting 150 people playing together on a the same screen at the same time with better graphics. It’s just a different product. It can’t be compared.

There’s not a chance in heck that they have 350 ppl working for Anet on gw2 atm. That might have been the case during development or prior to the china release (although I think KZ took much of that burden), but atm, there’s simply no way.

I was also under the impression that Anet was fond of sub-contractors…….ie many of those that used to work on the game were only there when needed. Thus now since they are not needed, they are not there. This explains why we have minimal reflection from what once was a much larger group.

I’d wager that there’s maybe 35 employees tops at Anet actively working on the game itself atm.

From February 2014: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-14-you-thought-that-was-it-for-guild-wars-2

“As for dwindling investment, it appears to be a myth: ArenaNet had a whopping 300 people when Guild Wars 2 launched, and now… now there are 350 and counting – ArenaNet is hiring.”

1/19/2013 size of live teams
http://dulfy.net/2013/01/19/gw2-colin-johanson-mmorpg-livestream-transcript-jan-18/
“In GW1 we had a really small live team because the game wasn’t big enough to generate a consistent revenue. The gems/micro-transaction based model allow us to have a much larger live team in GW2, allowing players to see much more content on a monthly basis.
Our live team in GW2 is 15-20 times larger than the live team in GW1.”

Yes those numbers account for the launch and the China release and include subs (which most likely are not there anymore).

If you look at glassdoor and several recent ex-employees that have made comments on the matter, the actual base is nowhere near the size of those numbers (300-350).

I’m actually stunned that people think 300-350 people would be able to keep their jobs if their jobs resulted in what we’ve seen in terms of this game. That many people are capable of so much more.

Are you saying that from 350 people or so in February 2014, they lost substantial numbers and no one has noticed or commented about it? That’s very interesting. I would have thought that would come out in some sort of business review or note of some kind if they lost that many people in about half a year.

I am saying they included contract employees in that 300-350. They are no longer employed by Anet once their contracts end unless either renewed or a new contract is agreed upon.

Think of it like a builder. They might contract out all the plumbing, electrical, framing, masonry, hvac, roofing, architects, etc….At a time they might actively employ lots of people, but once each contract work is finished they are no longer employed by the builder. The builder really only has a few employees like secretary, superintendent, project manager, etc…

Essence Snow.3194:

Astral Projections.7320:

Essence Snow.3194:

Astral Projections.7320:

Essence Snow.3194:

Vayne.8563:

No difference in hosting, major difference in bandwidth. It’s not as simple as what he was talking about. Not to mention, a lot of stuff is a lot more expensive today then back then. A staff of 350 in a bigger office is a lot more to maintain than a staff of 50.

But there’s a lot more complexity in getting 150 people playing together on a the same screen at the same time with better graphics. It’s just a different product. It can’t be compared.

There’s not a chance in heck that they have 350 ppl working for Anet on gw2 atm. That might have been the case during development or prior to the china release (although I think KZ took much of that burden), but atm, there’s simply no way.

I was also under the impression that Anet was fond of sub-contractors…….ie many of those that used to work on the game were only there when needed. Thus now since they are not needed, they are not there. This explains why we have minimal reflection from what once was a much larger group.

I’d wager that there’s maybe 35 employees tops at Anet actively working on the game itself atm.

From February 2014: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-14-you-thought-that-was-it-for-guild-wars-2

“As for dwindling investment, it appears to be a myth: ArenaNet had a whopping 300 people when Guild Wars 2 launched, and now… now there are 350 and counting – ArenaNet is hiring.”

1/19/2013 size of live teams
http://dulfy.net/2013/01/19/gw2-colin-johanson-mmorpg-livestream-transcript-jan-18/
“In GW1 we had a really small live team because the game wasn’t big enough to generate a consistent revenue. The gems/micro-transaction based model allow us to have a much larger live team in GW2, allowing players to see much more content on a monthly basis.
Our live team in GW2 is 15-20 times larger than the live team in GW1.”

Yes those numbers account for the launch and the China release and include subs (which most likely are not there anymore).

If you look at glassdoor and several recent ex-employees that have made comments on the matter, the actual base is nowhere near the size of those numbers (300-350).

I’m actually stunned that people think 300-350 people would be able to keep their jobs if their jobs resulted in what we’ve seen in terms of this game. That many people are capable of so much more.

Are you saying that from 350 people or so in February 2014, they lost substantial numbers and no one has noticed or commented about it? That’s very interesting. I would have thought that would come out in some sort of business review or note of some kind if they lost that many people in about half a year.

I am saying they included contract employees in that 300-350. They are no longer employed by Anet once their contracts end unless either renewed or a new contract is agreed upon.

Do you have evidence to back this up?

Essence Snow.3194:

Astral Projections.7320:

Essence Snow.3194:

Astral Projections.7320:

Essence Snow.3194:

Vayne.8563:

No difference in hosting, major difference in bandwidth. It’s not as simple as what he was talking about. Not to mention, a lot of stuff is a lot more expensive today then back then. A staff of 350 in a bigger office is a lot more to maintain than a staff of 50.

But there’s a lot more complexity in getting 150 people playing together on a the same screen at the same time with better graphics. It’s just a different product. It can’t be compared.

There’s not a chance in heck that they have 350 ppl working for Anet on gw2 atm. That might have been the case during development or prior to the china release (although I think KZ took much of that burden), but atm, there’s simply no way.

I was also under the impression that Anet was fond of sub-contractors…….ie many of those that used to work on the game were only there when needed. Thus now since they are not needed, they are not there. This explains why we have minimal reflection from what once was a much larger group.

I’d wager that there’s maybe 35 employees tops at Anet actively working on the game itself atm.

From February 2014: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-14-you-thought-that-was-it-for-guild-wars-2

“As for dwindling investment, it appears to be a myth: ArenaNet had a whopping 300 people when Guild Wars 2 launched, and now… now there are 350 and counting – ArenaNet is hiring.”

1/19/2013 size of live teams
http://dulfy.net/2013/01/19/gw2-colin-johanson-mmorpg-livestream-transcript-jan-18/
“In GW1 we had a really small live team because the game wasn’t big enough to generate a consistent revenue. The gems/micro-transaction based model allow us to have a much larger live team in GW2, allowing players to see much more content on a monthly basis.
Our live team in GW2 is 15-20 times larger than the live team in GW1.”

Yes those numbers account for the launch and the China release and include subs (which most likely are not there anymore).

If you look at glassdoor and several recent ex-employees that have made comments on the matter, the actual base is nowhere near the size of those numbers (300-350).

I’m actually stunned that people think 300-350 people would be able to keep their jobs if their jobs resulted in what we’ve seen in terms of this game. That many people are capable of so much more.

Are you saying that from 350 people or so in February 2014, they lost substantial numbers and no one has noticed or commented about it? That’s very interesting. I would have thought that would come out in some sort of business review or note of some kind if they lost that many people in about half a year.

I am saying they included contract employees in that 300-350. They are no longer employed by Anet once their contracts end unless either renewed or a new contract is agreed upon.

Think of it like a builder. They might contract out all the plumbing, electrical, framing, masonry, hvac, roofing, architects, etc….At a time they might actively employ lots of people, but once each contract work is finished they are no longer employed by the builder. The builder really only has a few employees like secretary, superintendent, project manager, etc…

You said, “I’d wager that there’s maybe 35 employees tops at Anet actively working on the game itself atm.”

If there were ~350 people working there in February and now 35 at the most, that would mean over 300 of those employees were contract workers who were let go in the last 6 months. I find it hard to believe that a company of this size and type would have had 85% or more contact/temporary workers. That sounds very unusual.

I would love to see the source where you are getting the information about staffing size and type.

Cinnamon Goddess.3869:

DeathMetal.8264:

NinjaEd.3946:

Somehow they never fail to release more item mall skins heaven forbid they add aesthetics that can be obtained from playing the game :/
…snip…

You do realize Anet could have altogether removed Gold to Gem conversion right?
By that same idea, all items in the gemstore can be bought, in your own words, “from playing the game”.

Sure, the inflation has gone up, but players who save up and play the game, always have the option to get the items they “want” (thank goodness, it’s NOT about the items we NEED) by playing the game.

Yes but can I buy everything that comes out by just playing the game as it comes out? Do keep in mind that I have a life also.

Many players want to collect everything not just a few things every now and then. If GW2 does not allow this then players will leave to other game that come closer. In the end less money for GW2. Bad business model for long term game stability.

I honestly dont know any single MMO where you can own everything. In F2P games cash shop might be the issue, in P2P games its time constraints. Owning everything would actually be bad game design anyway. what reason do you have to play if you have every possible reward a game has to offer?

scerevisiae.1972:

gem sales, duh.

and this is the problem with the B2P model: once you buy the game, the majority of Anet’s accountability to players to provide them with a fun experience is gone — their only financial incentive is to entice players to buy gems, not to create quality content per se.

Indeed, they are financially better off for the most part not created non-gem-store-related content so that non-spenders stop playing to save on bandwidth and hosting costs. Hence, bugger all effort devoted to balancing, WVW, sPVP.

At least with a subscription MMO, you can be sure that the company in question will bust their kitten to listen to players and make a serious effort to provide them with quality content they want to play.

Hmmm okey… so lets say you’re in charge of enticing people to buy gems… how would you do it?

Lots of stuff in Gem Shop and boring/No content doesnt seem an effective way to entice people to spend money really. I personally dont spend money on games I dont intend to play. Cant speak for everyone of course but I’d wager thats very common.

Not just that but P2P has an advantage over F2P there too. Firstly you pay it in advanced. So if update is boring / non existent they still get the money for as long as players are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. In F2P, if a player has doubts they can easily hold on spending money until they’re satisfied.

In both cases if they dont do a good job maintaining the game they’ll loose their revenue streams.

So no doubt both business models intensives their players to maintain their game and improve it. In the short term though If anything F2P is actually less forgiving because it gives all the power to the players. You’re unsatisfied but not ready to quit yet.. Cool you’re free to keep all your money until they get your confidence back. P2P? Power is all in the hands of the business. You’re unsatisfied but not read to quit just yet. Cool give us $15 and we’ll let you play.

Actually I would buy more from the gemstore is everything wasn’t released in it. If they released 60% of the skins in-game, I wouldn’t mind spending some golds/bucks to buy the rest. But since everything is only gemstore based, it’s not even worth the investment.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Actually I would buy more from the gemstore is everything wasn’t released in it. If they released 60% of the skins in-game, I wouldn’t mind spending some golds/bucks to buy the rest. But since everything is only gemstore based, it’s not even worth the investment.

Why do people claim skins are just released in the gemstore… granted its not 60% 40% in favor of in-game but there were a total of 5 full armor skins released in-game and 7 in the gem store. Not to mention thats not counting the truckload of weapons skins released in-game and the many single armor piece we got … 2 truckloads of back items and some loose stuff like the dragon helmet, the molten gloves, aetherized shoulders etc…

Are you people unaware of these or just exaggerate to make a point?

Astral Projections.7320:

Essence Snow.3194:

Astral Projections.7320:

Essence Snow.3194:

Astral Projections.7320:

Essence Snow.3194:

Vayne.8563:

No difference in hosting, major difference in bandwidth. It’s not as simple as what he was talking about. Not to mention, a lot of stuff is a lot more expensive today then back then. A staff of 350 in a bigger office is a lot more to maintain than a staff of 50.

But there’s a lot more complexity in getting 150 people playing together on a the same screen at the same time with better graphics. It’s just a different product. It can’t be compared.

There’s not a chance in heck that they have 350 ppl working for Anet on gw2 atm. That might have been the case during development or prior to the china release (although I think KZ took much of that burden), but atm, there’s simply no way.

I was also under the impression that Anet was fond of sub-contractors…….ie many of those that used to work on the game were only there when needed. Thus now since they are not needed, they are not there. This explains why we have minimal reflection from what once was a much larger group.

I’d wager that there’s maybe 35 employees tops at Anet actively working on the game itself atm.

From February 2014: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-14-you-thought-that-was-it-for-guild-wars-2

“As for dwindling investment, it appears to be a myth: ArenaNet had a whopping 300 people when Guild Wars 2 launched, and now… now there are 350 and counting – ArenaNet is hiring.”

1/19/2013 size of live teams
http://dulfy.net/2013/01/19/gw2-colin-johanson-mmorpg-livestream-transcript-jan-18/
“In GW1 we had a really small live team because the game wasn’t big enough to generate a consistent revenue. The gems/micro-transaction based model allow us to have a much larger live team in GW2, allowing players to see much more content on a monthly basis.
Our live team in GW2 is 15-20 times larger than the live team in GW1.”

Yes those numbers account for the launch and the China release and include subs (which most likely are not there anymore).

If you look at glassdoor and several recent ex-employees that have made comments on the matter, the actual base is nowhere near the size of those numbers (300-350).

I’m actually stunned that people think 300-350 people would be able to keep their jobs if their jobs resulted in what we’ve seen in terms of this game. That many people are capable of so much more.

Are you saying that from 350 people or so in February 2014, they lost substantial numbers and no one has noticed or commented about it? That’s very interesting. I would have thought that would come out in some sort of business review or note of some kind if they lost that many people in about half a year.

I am saying they included contract employees in that 300-350. They are no longer employed by Anet once their contracts end unless either renewed or a new contract is agreed upon.

Think of it like a builder. They might contract out all the plumbing, electrical, framing, masonry, hvac, roofing, architects, etc….At a time they might actively employ lots of people, but once each contract work is finished they are no longer employed by the builder. The builder really only has a few employees like secretary, superintendent, project manager, etc…

You said, “I’d wager that there’s maybe 35 employees tops at Anet actively working on the game itself atm.”

If there were ~350 people working there in February and now 35 at the most, that would mean over 300 of those employees were contract workers who were let go in the last 6 months. I find it hard to believe that a company of this size and type would have had 85% or more contact/temporary workers. That sounds very unusual.

I would love to see the source where you are getting the information about staffing size and type.

He has no sources cause its just a wild claim.

Anet have currently has over 20 job openings … Based on his numbers they intend to grow over 40% which no company would ever do it would be suicidal… (all your employees would be business training and caring for the new employees and nothing would get done )

Up till january of this year Anet confirmed the 350 employee number.

Linkedin has 289 people who’s profile states they work at Arenanet (obviously not every single employee has a linkedin profile)

And like I said they’re hiring more people which you dont do if you’re shrinking by 1000% per year (350 january 35 people now as claimed)

Galen Grey.4709:

Why do people claim skins are just released in the gemstore… granted its not 60% 40% in favor of in-game but there were a total of 5 full armor skins released in-game and 7 in the gem store. Not to mention thats not counting the truckload of weapons skins released in-game and the many single armor piece we got … 2 truckloads of back items and some loose stuff like the dragon helmet, the molten gloves, aetherized shoulders etc…

Are you people unaware of these or just exaggerate to make a point?

Really, 5 full armor sets? Besides the Ascended armor and the Glorious one, I seem to have lost 3 in the count (btw I don’t consider AP armor as part of the armor set, since they can only be obtained if you spend quite the amount of time doing things you might not like for the sake of getting points).

I don’t talk about simple pieces, of course there are many. I’m counting complete 6-piece armor set (and, let’s play the game, costumes too). Most of them were released in gemstore. Same for weapons: 11 sets were released in BLC. Guess what? Before people had to farm keys, now it’s longer, or they can… Buy keys with gems! As for the rest: they were temporary and now end up being out of reach for most players.

Either we get temporary content or content that needs farming.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Galen Grey.4709:

Why do people claim skins are just released in the gemstore… granted its not 60% 40% in favor of in-game but there were a total of 5 full armor skins released in-game and 7 in the gem store. Not to mention thats not counting the truckload of weapons skins released in-game and the many single armor piece we got … 2 truckloads of back items and some loose stuff like the dragon helmet, the molten gloves, aetherized shoulders etc…

Are you people unaware of these or just exaggerate to make a point?

Really, 5 full armor sets? Besides the Ascended armor and the Glorious one, I seem to have lost 3 in the count (btw I don’t consider AP armor as part of the armor set, since they can only be obtained if you spend quite the amount of time doing things you might not like for the sake of getting points).

I don’t talk about simple pieces, of course there are many. I’m counting complete 6-piece armor set (and, let’s play the game, costumes too). Most of them were released in gemstore. Same for weapons: 11 sets were released in BLC. Guess what? Before people had to farm keys, now it’s longer, or they can… Buy keys with gems! As for the rest: they were temporary and now end up being out of reach for most players.

Either we get temporary content or content that needs farming.

Not get, got. There isn’t any more temporary content. The closest we’ve had since the end of the last living story is seasonable or recurring content, which isn’t temporary.

Anet fixed something but people continue to bring it up as if it’s still an issue. It caused some of the issues we have now, but it’s not an issue anymore. Bringing it up now feels disingenuous to me.

Vayne.8563:

Alex.9567:

Brooks’ law might be valid in this case, then again it might not, its difficult for a player to have the insight to know, however there are other possibility’s which seem logical, I remember reading right at launch that concept artist Kekai Kotaki was calling it quits with anet, I really wondered why, it seemed like the best time to be part of that company, about a 8 month to a year later I concluded that he must have left because he realised the direction the game was headed, these other 2 head guys you speak of, I had no idea about, but again what were their reasons? we don’t know what drove them to leave, it may very well have been that they had insight on the direction the game was headed.

Terrible conclusion. He was a concept artist. Concept artist’s are often used most heavily before the game launches. It’s extremely likely he actually had less to do later on, because he probably expected new areas to be developed faster. A lot of artistic people leave jobs because their particular talents aren’t really needed for the phase the game was in. Concept artists are almost always the first to go when a game launches. That’s very common. So what exactly is your conclusion based on?

my conclusion is based on – when Kekai Kotaki left anet in mid 2012, he had been with the company for 8 years, also he’s not just some random concept artist, he’s won awards for his work which is pretty much the guild wars art style we all love, so it strikes me as odd that a couple month before gw2s launch he decides to leave, also your the one who mentioned head ppl leaving, quite interesting how you forgot to respond to that part of the argument, im still curious why they left.

and what were your conclusions based on when you tried to argue Brooks’ law, inflation, bandwidth etc as a reason to justify lack of content and anet milking the cash shop? so in the very least you’ve also concluded terribly on more than one occasion, but for you to not recognise that is a strong point to concluded your arguing irrationally and its unlikely that we’ll be able to find any conclusion to agree upon.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Galen Grey.4709:

Why do people claim skins are just released in the gemstore… granted its not 60% 40% in favor of in-game but there were a total of 5 full armor skins released in-game and 7 in the gem store. Not to mention thats not counting the truckload of weapons skins released in-game and the many single armor piece we got … 2 truckloads of back items and some loose stuff like the dragon helmet, the molten gloves, aetherized shoulders etc…

Are you people unaware of these or just exaggerate to make a point?

Really, 5 full armor sets? Besides the Ascended armor and the Glorious one, I seem to have lost 3 in the count (btw I don’t consider AP armor as part of the armor set, since they can only be obtained if you spend quite the amount of time doing things you might not like for the sake of getting points).

I don’t talk about simple pieces, of course there are many. I’m counting complete 6-piece armor set (and, let’s play the game, costumes too). Most of them were released in gemstore. Same for weapons: 11 sets were released in BLC. Guess what? Before people had to farm keys, now it’s longer, or they can… Buy keys with gems! As for the rest: they were temporary and now end up being out of reach for most players.

Either we get temporary content or content that needs farming.

and here we go again…

Ohh those 2 sets dont count cause I dont like that activity…. funny though that reasoning always happens one way.. I see people discounting stuff in game because of one reason or another all the time not once did i see people discount stuff from the cash shop because say they’re not willing to pay real money.

Also as for stuff you need to do to get the AP, nearlly everything you can possibly do earns you AP. Didnt farm a single AP in my life and I got 10.5k of the stuff which is enough to get at least one of the two sets.

The 5th armor is the hero’s glorious set which you get through tournaments.

Some where temporary sure (again not an excuse to say they dont count really ) but plenty of ones that are permanently available like the amberite set, mistforged/hero set, the sunsless set, asended weapons, zenith weapon set, Guild weapons, Pact Weapons, aetherized nightmare weapon set, fractal weapons, or these loose ones:
http://dulfy.net/2013/08/06/gw2-champion-weapon-skins/

not to mention the seasonal sets like:
The SAB weapon sets, The wintersday toy weapon sets, Sovereign set.

by far we got a lot more weapon skins in-game then in gem shop especially when you consider 50% of the gem shop skins we got even dropped in game while the event was running like the dragon weapon skins, Aetherized or Sclerite.

Well farming is a different subject thats pretty complicated. Mostly it depends what you value the most… enjoying the game or the rewards it provides.
If you’re looking to get a full set of anything as soon as possible they yeah it will feel farmy for sure. If you play the content you enjoy and just enjoy when one of these drop or simply get the one you’re interested in once you earn enough doing nothing more then playing the game then it will not feel like farming at all.

Alex.9567:

Vayne.8563:

Alex.9567:

Brooks’ law might be valid in this case, then again it might not, its difficult for a player to have the insight to know, however there are other possibility’s which seem logical, I remember reading right at launch that concept artist Kekai Kotaki was calling it quits with anet, I really wondered why, it seemed like the best time to be part of that company, about a 8 month to a year later I concluded that he must have left because he realised the direction the game was headed, these other 2 head guys you speak of, I had no idea about, but again what were their reasons? we don’t know what drove them to leave, it may very well have been that they had insight on the direction the game was headed.

Terrible conclusion. He was a concept artist. Concept artist’s are often used most heavily before the game launches. It’s extremely likely he actually had less to do later on, because he probably expected new areas to be developed faster. A lot of artistic people leave jobs because their particular talents aren’t really needed for the phase the game was in. Concept artists are almost always the first to go when a game launches. That’s very common. So what exactly is your conclusion based on?

my conclusion is based on – when Kekai Kotaki left anet in mid 2012, he had been with the company for 8 years, also he’s not just some random concept artist, he’s won awards for his work which is pretty much the guild wars art style we all love, so it strikes me as odd that a couple month before gw2s launch he decides to leave, also your the one who mentioned head ppl leaving, quite interesting how you forgot to respond to that part of the argument, im still curious why they left.

and what were your conclusions based on when you tried to argue Brooks’ law, inflation, bandwidth etc as a reason to justify lack of content and anet milking the cash shop? so in the very least you’ve also concluded terribly on more than one occasion, but for you to not recognise that is a strong point to concluded your arguing irrationally and its unlikely that we’ll be able to find any conclusion to agree upon.

The average amount of time people work in jobs in the industry is probably about 8 years. If he got a better offer he’d leave. He’s never said or indicated that he left because of the direction of a company. You have no valid reason to believe that except that you have something against the direction of the company. Without evidence, your guess is a guess.

My comments with Brook’s Law was in direct response to someone who claimed that adding more people couldn’t slow down production. It’s a non-true statement. It can absolutely slow down production. It was valid and it was a response.

One person claims something easily disproved or at least contested. I contested it. You claim something with no evidence at all and I contest it. Do you see a pattern?

Or do you have some evidence for your claim other than you think it’s true?

Also something I consider very important. I dont know if people genuinely miss all the skins / rewards Arenanet put in the game over the last two years or if they exaggerate on purpose for the sake of their argument.

In either case I hope you realize how much this works against you.

The message you’re trying to send is we want less stuff in the cash shop but more stuff in the game… fair message but at the same you’re ruining your own argument by stating that you’re totally unaware of all the skins they added in-game or if you’re aware you discount them because for whatever reason apply to you.

Think about what that actually means.

1. You care about the stuff thats in gem store… you want it, if you didnt obviously it wouldnt be an issue and you wouldnt care enough to post in forum about it.

2. Any effort Anet does to add stuff to the game is rendered meaningless because those rewards are either ignored, not valued as much as the gem shop stuff or even has such low value people arent even aware they were added while they’re totally aware of every single set that is added to the gemshop.

So really what incentive Anet have to follow such suggestions! Loose money off something people want to do something people ignore or dont care anything about.

If adding skins to the game would get them good will, happy players, more player retention, etc.. they may be persuaded to give up some of the revenue for the good of the game. no matter what people state they did this quite a few times already (wardrobe, account wallet, gathering tools account bound, dyes account bound etc..) but with every single time I pointed out what skins they added to the game the response every single time included oh but that doesnt count because reasons, ohh but thats too farmy to get, etc.. Seriously what incentive is that giving to Anet ?

creating weapon/armor skins takes time and money. If they’re put into gem shop its fine, they’re getting money out of it. if they put them in game the return they get is player involvement with the game so it will never be just a matter of going to an npc and asking for whichever one you want and here you can have it. It will take effort to get so that Anets return instead of money will be player involvement with playing the game.

Hope this all gives you something to think about. Inflating a problem in the hope of forcing action by making it seems worst then it is can actually backfire badly and result in the opposite outcome you desire.

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

And yet ANet continues to try to appeal to various demographics, who then come here to the forums to miss and poan about how it’s just not enough. I don’t like ANet’s offerings, particularly, but there are content offerings — and they’re consistent for the most part with what was advertised before launch.

It’s a shame we live in such an entitled society.

A lot of it comes from not understanding the challenges associated with software development, and specifically game development, along with running a business. I’ve seen so many people who have “easy” answers that would be “easy” to implement. Or people crying about bug fixes, thinking that because they know the problem, they’ve been able to isolate the cause.

If that is true then they’ve been digging themselves in this whole for over a year now because there are elements in the game already in play that are solutions to numerous problems but they stick to what they feel is best and try improving it for some odd reason. If you already have the wrench, why not use it?

Some people are suggesting changes as if they can be done with the flip of the switch but you know, when those suggestions have been around for months and they get positive feedback for being healthy for the game and also rational yet there is zero response from anet on a lot of those topics. They cannot get to every thread that is a known fact because there are just soo many but they sure do ignore a large portion and have very few responses towards anything the people are saying. You’d think the larger the crowd the more likely for a response but that is clearly not the case here. No efforts are being made to please those people, not even an up to date red post letting them know they are still looking into it or throw some ideas at the board (forum post) and see what most people like and why.

NinjaEd.3946:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

And yet ANet continues to try to appeal to various demographics, who then come here to the forums to miss and poan about how it’s just not enough. I don’t like ANet’s offerings, particularly, but there are content offerings — and they’re consistent for the most part with what was advertised before launch.

It’s a shame we live in such an entitled society.

A lot of it comes from not understanding the challenges associated with software development, and specifically game development, along with running a business. I’ve seen so many people who have “easy” answers that would be “easy” to implement. Or people crying about bug fixes, thinking that because they know the problem, they’ve been able to isolate the cause.

If that is true then they’ve been digging themselves in this whole for over a year now because there are elements in the game already in play that are solutions to numerous problems but they stick to what they feel is best and try improving it for some odd reason. If you already have the wrench, why not use it?

Some people are suggesting changes as if they can be done with the flip of the switch but you know, when those suggestions have been around for months and they get positive feedback for being healthy for the game and also rational yet there is zero response from anet on a lot of those topics. They cannot get to every thread that is a known fact because there are just soo many but they sure do ignore a large portion and have very few responses towards anything the people are saying.

It is never that simple. Some obvious solutions to a problem do more harm then good.

Let me illustrate.. There are for example a lot of different rewards in game and some of them take a huge effort to get and thus a lot of people feel they’re just too grindy to get and make the game boring. The amount of work that people consider grindy various from person to person but an obvious solution would be make them all free. Got to an npc and choose the legendary you want, or all of them if you’re so inclined. Go to another NPC and get all your chars geared in the ascended gear of your choice etc.. Simple solution that eliminate grind completely. Awesome… not so much because now you have a different problem. 1 week and I finished gearing up all my chars just the way I want it. But now what do I play the game for?

An Extreme example for sure but every suggestion ever has similar connotations that game designers need to be aware of.

Add new zones… sure but what about player fragementation
Add many new dungeons… but what about players who dont do dungeons and play in the open world.
etc…

Simply speaking players tend to focus on what bothers them and many times they provide excellent solutions for that problem and how it effects them but an MMO is not a single player game. While that change maybe positive to the individual Arenanet need to consider the whole of the community + the longevity of the Game itself.

Vayne.8563:

Alex.9567:

my conclusion is based on – when Kekai Kotaki left anet in mid 2012, he had been with the company for 8 years, also he’s not just some random concept artist, he’s won awards for his work which is pretty much the guild wars art style we all love, so it strikes me as odd that a couple month before gw2s launch he decides to leave, also your the one who mentioned head ppl leaving, quite interesting how you forgot to respond to that part of the argument, im still curious why they left.

and what were your conclusions based on when you tried to argue Brooks’ law, inflation, bandwidth etc as a reason to justify lack of content and anet milking the cash shop? so in the very least you’ve also concluded terribly on more than one occasion, but for you to not recognise that is a strong point to concluded your arguing irrationally and its unlikely that we’ll be able to find any conclusion to agree upon.

The average amount of time people work in jobs in the industry is probably about 8 years. If he got a better offer he’d leave. He’s never said or indicated that he left because of the direction of a company. You have no valid reason to believe that except that you have something against the direction of the company. Without evidence, your guess is a guess.

My comments with Brook’s Law was in direct response to someone who claimed that adding more people couldn’t slow down production. It’s a non-true statement. It can absolutely slow down production. It was valid and it was a response.

One person claims something easily disproved or at least contested. I contested it. You claim something with no evidence at all and I contest it. Do you see a pattern?

Or do you have some evidence for your claim other than you think it’s true?

your assertion to brooks law is no more substantial then me drawing a conclusion about anets business practices based on 2 years of gws2, in fact me drawing conclusions from their business practices after 2 years is far more convicting than quoting brooks law, then you say I have something against the direction of the company as if I haven’t made it plainly clearly what and why, you speak of evidence when we’re both obviously speculating conclusions on possibility’s, that’s why I believe youre irrational because you count what you’ve said as evidence when its in fact at the very most just as speculative as the conclusions I’ve made, so yes I do see a pattern, one in which your have a strong subjective bias towards your own opinion.

Alex.9567:

Vayne.8563:

Alex.9567:

my conclusion is based on – when Kekai Kotaki left anet in mid 2012, he had been with the company for 8 years, also he’s not just some random concept artist, he’s won awards for his work which is pretty much the guild wars art style we all love, so it strikes me as odd that a couple month before gw2s launch he decides to leave, also your the one who mentioned head ppl leaving, quite interesting how you forgot to respond to that part of the argument, im still curious why they left.

and what were your conclusions based on when you tried to argue Brooks’ law, inflation, bandwidth etc as a reason to justify lack of content and anet milking the cash shop? so in the very least you’ve also concluded terribly on more than one occasion, but for you to not recognise that is a strong point to concluded your arguing irrationally and its unlikely that we’ll be able to find any conclusion to agree upon.

The average amount of time people work in jobs in the industry is probably about 8 years. If he got a better offer he’d leave. He’s never said or indicated that he left because of the direction of a company. You have no valid reason to believe that except that you have something against the direction of the company. Without evidence, your guess is a guess.

My comments with Brook’s Law was in direct response to someone who claimed that adding more people couldn’t slow down production. It’s a non-true statement. It can absolutely slow down production. It was valid and it was a response.

One person claims something easily disproved or at least contested. I contested it. You claim something with no evidence at all and I contest it. Do you see a pattern?

Or do you have some evidence for your claim other than you think it’s true?

your assertion to brooks law is no more substantial then me drawing a conclusion about anets business practices based on 2 years of gws2, in fact me drawing conclusions from their business practices after 2 years is far more convicting than quoting brooks law, then you say I have something against the direction of the company as if I haven’t made it plainly clearly what and why, you speak of evidence when we’re both obviously speculating conclusions on possibility’s, that’s why I believe youre irrational because you count what you’ve said as evidence when its in fact at the very most just as speculative as the conclusions I’ve made, so yes I do see a pattern, one in which your have a strong subjective bias towards your own opinion.

You obviously can’t tell the difference between refuting a statement to show it’s not necessarily 100% accurate, or making a statement.

I didn’t instigate anything. I didn’t make a statement. I RESPONDED to a statement. That changes the entire dynamic.

If I came into these forums and said, straight out, that adding more people won’t slow down the production of a program, you’d have every right to be saying what you’re saying….but I didn’t do that at all.

I was replying to someone who was making a claim. That is it say, I was showing the POSSIBILITY that what that person was saying, and stating with great certainty, was possibly not as certain as they were claiming. The same about Kekai. I never EVER claimed to know why he left Anet.

I’m simply pointing out possibilities, because someone else claimed to know why.

If you have no evidence, don’t make claims. If you do make claims with no evidence, don’t expect people to just accept what you say. I’m within my right to RESPOND with alternate reasons why this might happen.

If you have evidence, by all means present it. I don’t think you do.

I don’t have evidence either. It’s why I RESPOND to statements like yours rather than MAKING them.

NinjaEd.3946:

If they can dish out gem store updates this frequently why aren’t there bug fixes this frequently?

I’m certain that the art team responsible for the new weapon skins cannot fix bugs or release new content, new dungeons or new story.

Vayne.8563:

You’ve got to be kidding me. Do you even realize how many events were simply broken at launch. Do you really think they wanted to launch without a trading post preview, or the ability to sort by light armor type? Do you think that stuff like the fractals weren’t already in progress before launch? Do you think they really had enough time even to make Arah story mode the dungeon it might have been.

According to a dev that I knew in game, the technology of the moving platforms that allowed them to build Arah only arrived 2 weeks before the game came out.

There’s plenty of stuff that isn’t more content or awards adjustment that could have been done before launch, including a looking for group tool, that wouldn’t have required feedback from players at all.

Bugs happen at launch no matter how much they work on an MMO. The question is how much time it’s going to take to fix them. On TP thing, no I don’t think that they had in mind “Let’s launch TP without armor filters” ,but maybe they didn’t think about it. On fractal, If I remember correctly, the Consortium launched expedition to the mists, which means they wanted to release it with southsun cove & the first “Living story” experience. On the arah thing, I guess you can say the last batte is rushed, but it is still rushed after 2 years.

I’m not saying everything was added due to player feedback, but a loads of things, yes. I’m not so sure anet wanted to launch with an ingame LFG tool. Wardrobe was asked many times, long before it’s launch. WvWers wanted progression. Dungeon people wanted reward buff. PvPers wanted new mode (I guess I can say it now it’s coming) NPE great example too, it was created due new player staying ratio wasn’t that good.
GvGers wanted arena. Guild folks wanted activities. List goes on and on ….

Alex.9567:

your assertion to brooks law is no more substantial then me drawing a conclusion about anets business practices based on 2 years of gws2, in fact me drawing conclusions from their business practices after 2 years is far more convicting than quoting brooks law, then you say I have something against the direction of the company as if I haven’t made it plainly clearly what and why, you speak of evidence when we’re both obviously speculating conclusions on possibility’s, that’s why I believe youre irrational because you count what you’ve said as evidence when its in fact at the very most just as speculative as the conclusions I’ve made, so yes I do see a pattern, one in which your have a strong subjective bias towards your own opinion.

Without knowing any facts its all just idle speculation.

Like for example there is also Daniel Dociu he too won awards and he too together with Kekai essentially created the Look and Feel of GW2 art Direction. He’s been with the company for 10 years and so far hasnt quit. What does that tell us? Nothing more and Nothing less then what Kekai leaving does. IE Nothing

Without specifics nothing can be inferred either way.

Maybe Kekai left because he had issues with the company, maybe he left because he felt he contributed all that he had in regards to the Guild wars art style and it was time for something new. Maybe he left cause he could get more money else where. Who knows!

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

You’ve got to be kidding me. Do you even realize how many events were simply broken at launch. Do you really think they wanted to launch without a trading post preview, or the ability to sort by light armor type? Do you think that stuff like the fractals weren’t already in progress before launch? Do you think they really had enough time even to make Arah story mode the dungeon it might have been.

According to a dev that I knew in game, the technology of the moving platforms that allowed them to build Arah only arrived 2 weeks before the game came out.

There’s plenty of stuff that isn’t more content or awards adjustment that could have been done before launch, including a looking for group tool, that wouldn’t have required feedback from players at all.

Bugs happen at launch no matter how much they work on an MMO. The question is how much time it’s going to take to fix them. On TP thing, no I don’t think that they had in mind “Let’s launch TP without armor filters” ,but maybe they didn’t think about it. On fractal, If I remember correctly, the Consortium launched expedition to the mists, which means they wanted to release it with southsun cove & the first “Living story” experience. On the arah thing, I guess you can say the last batte is rushed, but it is still rushed after 2 years.

I’m not saying everything was added due to player feedback, but a loads of things, yes. I’m not so sure anet wanted to launch with an ingame LFG tool. Wardrobe was asked many times, long before it’s launch. WvWers wanted progression. Dungeon people wanted reward buff. PvPers wanted new mode (I guess I can say it now it’s coming) NPE great example too, it was created due new player staying ratio wasn’t that good.
GvGers wanted arena. Guild folks wanted activities. List goes on and on ….

We’re not talking about a couple of bugs. If you got to Orr relatively fast, you’d know more than half the events in Orr were bugged. This wasn’t just some casual statement. The game wasn’t ready to be launched, and if you think it was…you’re entitled to that opinion.

In my opinion they launched early because they were pressured to launch by other considerations. It’s okay if you don’t believe it…plenty of people however do.

Vayne.8563:

We’re not talking about a couple of bugs. If you got to Orr relatively fast, you’d know more than half the events in Orr were bugged. This wasn’t just some casual statement. The game wasn’t ready to be launched, and if you think it was…you’re entitled to that opinion.

In my opinion they launched early because they were pressured to launch by other considerations. It’s okay if you don’t believe it…plenty of people however do.

If they even considered to launch while they still had to work two years, I doubt they considered the missing things as a priority.
Also I’m as much entitled to my opinion , as much as you to think the last two years was lacking because early launch. It’s just an opinion. If I ask the same thing two years later your answer still going to be the same?

Vayne.8563:

There isn’t any more temporary content. The closest we’ve had since the end of the last living story is seasonable or recurring content, which isn’t temporary.

With the September patch, content that had been here from launch turned out to be more ‘temporary content’. As in, poof! Gone.

Essence Snow.3194:

snip

i commend this person for having a basic understanding of how companies function in reality behind the mandatory facade.. and the advocates can beat their drum against the speculation as much as they want, but if that’s the case arena net has a rather large work force who are ok with a ‘learning as we go’ production standard

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

There isn’t any more temporary content. The closest we’ve had since the end of the last living story is seasonable or recurring content, which isn’t temporary.

With the September patch, content that had been here from launch turned out to be more ‘temporary content’. As in, poof! Gone.

They’ve got new mousepads in their offices

http://www.forexfactory.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1511978&stc=1&d=1411064786

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

There isn’t any more temporary content. The closest we’ve had since the end of the last living story is seasonable or recurring content, which isn’t temporary.

With the September patch, content that had been here from launch turned out to be more ‘temporary content’. As in, poof! Gone.

Give me a break. The heart changes aren’t what people were referring to as temporary content. They were changed, but they’re still in the game as hearts.

It’s funny how people ignore a new zone when they want to say Anet added nothing, but they’re happy to try to point to a change in early hearts as temporary content. This is about as disingenuous as it gets.

Vayne, large chunks of content from the hearts and early events have been removed and replaced with spamming F or just blown to hell altogether, right? So, seemingly permanent content has been deemed not as permanent as we thought it to be, yes? Mistakes have been made, yes?

Right, I’ve completely forgot. Personal story too!