Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

But Guild Wars 1 still wasnt’ DESIGNED around rewards. The rewards were THERE, but for the most part if you did a dungeon, you got a crappy gold that unless you were working for wisdom, you’d sell as an unid’ed gold.

There were rare drops in some dungeons like the bone dragon staff, and some people farmed them, but most never did. Maybe you got the rare black dye, white dye or lockpick, but most drops were crap.

People did farm, but they weren’t the majority. Most people just played the game and the drops were INCIDENTAL to the rest of it.

Just because YOU think in terms of drops doesn’t mean the game was designed for that to be the focus.

GW1 WASN’T designed around rewards, but you still needed them for gear progression. Either to replace the armor/weapons you had, or to sell in order to buy the armor you needed to move on in the game. NOT just the skins, but the stats. You’d have never left Drok’s and survived otherwise! (Henchies…no heroes, and I’m talking as the game was designed.)

marnick.4305:

I didn’t need to play chess a thousand times to unlock the queen. It’d be such a bad game if that was part of the mechanics …

Yes but the thing about chess is it requires a great deal of skill and ultimately you can actually win.

If I played chess by sitting down opposite my opponent, ramming my head as hard as I could into the table and knocking all the pieces all over the floor, then bent down, picked them all up, set them up again, smiled and then did it all over again a thousand or more times. That would be like this game.

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563:

Every other MMO I’ve played has goals. This is one of the few MMOs I’ve played that really has none. Or at least your goals are yours.

How is that a good thing? Because it’s different? That’s your argument?

How is this a bad thing? Do you need someone telling you what to do your whole life? Even in a game?

Erasculio.2914:

HiddenNick.7206:

So what is the focus in this game?! I’m trying to find this game goal and as far as I know there is none!

The goal is the same goal as in any other good game: to have fun.

People are too used to mediocre games (aka MMORPGs) these days.

I totally agree, I might like guild wars 2 but it doesnt change the fact that as a video game it sucks. it might be one of the best mmorpgs I haved, but it is still a horrible video game. Guild wars 2 is like the smartest guy in a class for kittens. It doesn’t matter you are still kittened.

silvermember.8941:

Erasculio.2914:

HiddenNick.7206:

So what is the focus in this game?! I’m trying to find this game goal and as far as I know there is none!

The goal is the same goal as in any other good game: to have fun.

People are too used to mediocre games (aka MMORPGs) these days.

I totally agree, I might like guild wars 2 but it doesnt change the fact that as a video game it sucks. it might be one of the best mmorpgs I haved, but it is still a horrible video game. Guild wars 2 is like the smartest guy in a class for kittens. It doesn’t matter you are still kittened.

Perhaps your personality and preferences are just not suited for the MMO genre. Its just like movies and books. If you don’t enjoy reading science fiction, well maybe you shouldn’t be surprised when you dislike the next science fiction book you read.

Every single person enjoys games for their own reasons and if enough of your reasons aren’t supported in a game you less likely to enjoy it.

I basically stopped playing before reaching max level because everyone said max level is just a gold grind…which is disappointing.

What I expected from GW2 was World of Warcraft but without the ridiculous logistical group requirements to see endgame content. (10-25 people). GW2 said they were going to go with 5 man as a max which was finally exciting.

Then you get into the game and the mechanics are MEH. The Dungeons are MEH. The Boss fights are MEH.

I love the world, but the character models seem to mannequin like. Movements/combat animations are pretty bad. Class abilities and overall specs are MEH.

And there is no end game. Just gold grinding.

There needs to be progression where you beat content, required to beat that content to move onto the next content and so on. Otherwise there is no point.

There is nothing wrong with progression gear and it making your character better for the next content. In fact, it gives you something to strive, achieve, especially if you see others in some armor you really like. Mindless achievements are really goals. Goals are beating XYZ dungeon, boss, etc and then moving onto the next content.

There is no progression or path to really follow. In fact, the open ended world is actually worse now then say a more linear progression.

I think GW2 should have just looked at WoW, taken all the good stuff from and then get rid of the bad stuff (which was mainly logistics).

So tired of games being so kittening easy and quick. Why do game companies reduce the leveling XP or difficulty. The JOURNEY is a big part of it and you don’t get that in GW2 or any game now.

Lastly…teleporters…bad bad idea. Makes the world pointless.

gaspara.4079:

silvermember.8941:

Erasculio.2914:

HiddenNick.7206:

So what is the focus in this game?! I’m trying to find this game goal and as far as I know there is none!

The goal is the same goal as in any other good game: to have fun.

People are too used to mediocre games (aka MMORPGs) these days.

I totally agree, I might like guild wars 2 but it doesnt change the fact that as a video game it sucks. it might be one of the best mmorpgs I haved, but it is still a horrible video game. Guild wars 2 is like the smartest guy in a class for kittens. It doesn’t matter you are still kittened.

Perhaps your personality and preferences are just not suited for the MMO genre. Its just like movies and books. If you don’t enjoy reading science fiction, well maybe you shouldn’t be surprised when you dislike the next science fiction book you read.

Every single person enjoys games for their own reasons and if enough of your reasons aren’t supported in a game you less likely to enjoy it.

Actually, you are right that my preference might are longer supported by the genre.

Or maybe the genre is so used to mediocre systems. I mean, you never see someone ask why they should continue playing skyrim, it is only an MMO where you can get away with this silly question and it is because turn video game into a job, it is no longer about fun, but work. Only in this genre where fun is no long a reason to play an MMO.

BTW I do have fun doing WvW, it still doesnt change my criticism of the genre well the PvE portions anyways.

Erasculio.2914:

HiddenNick.7206:

So what is the focus in this game?! I’m trying to find this game goal and as far as I know there is none!

The goal is the same goal as in any other good game: to have fun.

People are too used to mediocre games (aka MMORPGs) these days.

I would say that in the world of MMO’s GW2 is pretty mediocre. It’s combat is shallow and flawed, it’s reward system non-existent, it’s endgame…lol, I almost acted as if it HAD an endgame…

With the number of other MMOs that are F2P, GW2 will need to really step it up if it wants to continue to be successful. It got of to a nice start but much of that was from hype and it’s been going steadily down hill since.

I think they really need to ‘re-launch’ the game with a new redesign of classes, dungeons and other mechanics.

Ryth.6518:

I think they really need to ‘re-launch’ the game with a new redesign of classes, dungeons and other mechanics.

It makes no sense whatsoever for them to do that. And really it isn’t grounded in reality either, nobody would like losing progress. Just look at what happen wtih they rolled by 7 hours in Neverwinter nights, now imagine they do the same after 10 months.

I know reality bites.

Ryth.6518:

Then you get into the game and the mechanics are MEH. The Dungeons are MEH. The Boss fights are MEH.
I love the world, but the character models seem to mannequin like. Movements/combat animations are pretty bad. Class abilities and overall specs are MEH.

That doesn’t seem fair to me….

My problem with the game is that there is no structure here. I really don’t know what I should do to be better then others in this game. One thing that a lot of people seems to be doing is gathering gold for something… Besides that there isn’t much to do. I know that there are some activities – parts of Living Story. And that is getting much better now. But still… I don’t know what is the structure of the game. And It seems there just isn’t any.

Some of you is telling me that’s the problem with me… And I’m a just next WoW fun… Which I’m NOT! Just listen to yourself! It’s just a total absurd!

I don’t wan’t a better gear then others! Just something that I can achieve! That’s what I expect.

Like fighting shatterer. It shouldn’t be only about a slight chance of getting a precursor. That fight should be about putting me at my limits to kill that dragon! Spend an hour fighting it and only using all my skills and with the help of hundreds of other people I would be able to defeat it. And maybe I would be also required to obtain a certain item (not like better stats gear, but more like agony resistance) to be able to even fight the dragon. To get that item I would be required to travel all over the world and complete numerous events. That would give me a reason to play! No gear grind or farming here! (from my point of view) Just a goal to follow!

And there isn’t ANYTHING like it in the game! Just some scattered farms all over the place. The problem is that 99% of them sucks and none want’s to farm them so all of those places are empty.

PS. I wonder where you all explores are running… I didn’t see any of you…

HiddenNick,

I have been following this post since it started, and up until your last post I have been lost. In your other posts it seems you was just another person that wants the highest tier of weapon or armor to be better then other players.

But with your last post I now understand where your coming from. I agree with you. I love the game and have a lot of fun playing it, but Claw of Jormag, Shatter, and other world bosses should feel like world bosses. That way when you go to fight them you feel like you accomplish something. It should have awesome rewards for doing it and the fights should last longer then a few minutes. I wouldn’t mind chasing Claw around frostgouge some and taking him down over a little longer period of time. Now it is stand there and hit a button, no thinking required.

Your last post makes since and I can agree with you on what you said there about having a goal when doing something. I play and I do dungeon with my guildies, level alts for fun. So far I play the way I want to and haven’t tired of the game yet. It is still fun to log in for me. But other people have different opinions. But having more challenges and having a goal like you said above I do agree with.

To me to goal was to get a legendary. Which meant farm gold mostly. Now I got one. My new goal is to throw rares in the mystic forge xD

I think GW1 had its goals sorted out pretty well through its title system. GWAMM was what you we’re going for, which required stuff like vanquishing all of Tyria on hard mode (quite the task). You definitely had something to aim for when they introduced HoM.
GW2: no clear goal.

So… does a game need to have a goal? I think every game in existence has one of two goals:
1. Complete the game, or
2. Become the best.

The only exception appears to be MMO PvE: you can’t complete it because there is no finish. You can’t become the best because there are no set criteria for being the best. Is the richest person the best? The one with the fastest Lupi solo? The one with the most skill points? The one with the most legendaries? It is unclear.

So.. does a game need a goal? I suppose not…. but since most games have one it’s only natural to want one in MMO pve as well.

The same thing GW1 is about – Dressup!

Earn enough gold to dressup your toon however you want, then move onto the next. That is what GW as a whole is about.

Hjorje.9453:

I love the game and have a lot of fun playing it, but Claw of Jormag, Shatter, and other world bosses should feel like world bosses. That way when you go to fight them you feel like you accomplish something. It should have awesome rewards for doing it and the fights should last longer then a few minutes. I wouldn’t mind chasing Claw around frostgouge some and taking him down over a little longer period of time. Now it is stand there and hit a button, no thinking required.

It’s not just about the world bosses. Everything in the game should have a meaning. Problem is that you can’t compare yourself with others in PvE or WvW. I know that are things to farm out there (ranks and skins). But I don’t admire people for the fact that they spend a lot of time in the game. Do something that I can’t achieve and that’s something to be admired for.

This is what the end game should be about. This is the only thing that gw2 is lacking. And it has nothing to do with gear grind or raids!

Gw1 PvE was about few skins to get… And it wasn’t so fun as some of you want it to be. Gw2 should be better then this!

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

Vayne.8563:

But Guild Wars 1 still wasnt’ DESIGNED around rewards. The rewards were THERE, but for the most part if you did a dungeon, you got a crappy gold that unless you were working for wisdom, you’d sell as an unid’ed gold.

There were rare drops in some dungeons like the bone dragon staff, and some people farmed them, but most never did. Maybe you got the rare black dye, white dye or lockpick, but most drops were crap.

People did farm, but they weren’t the majority. Most people just played the game and the drops were INCIDENTAL to the rest of it.

Just because YOU think in terms of drops doesn’t mean the game was designed for that to be the focus.

GW1 WASN’T designed around rewards, but you still needed them for gear progression. Either to replace the armor/weapons you had, or to sell in order to buy the armor you needed to move on in the game. NOT just the skins, but the stats. You’d have never left Drok’s and survived otherwise! (Henchies…no heroes, and I’m talking as the game was designed.)

You can get max level stuff for so cheap, it’s not relevant. It wasn’t drops. Max level armor was cheap.

HiddenNick.7206:

Hjorje.9453:

I love the game and have a lot of fun playing it, but Claw of Jormag, Shatter, and other world bosses should feel like world bosses. That way when you go to fight them you feel like you accomplish something. It should have awesome rewards for doing it and the fights should last longer then a few minutes. I wouldn’t mind chasing Claw around frostgouge some and taking him down over a little longer period of time. Now it is stand there and hit a button, no thinking required.

It’s not just about the world bosses. Everything in the game should have a meaning. Problem is that you can’t compare yourself with others in PvE or WvW. I know that are things to farm out there (ranks and skins). But I don’t admire people for the fact that they spend a lot of time in the game. Do something that I can’t achieve and that’s something to be admired for.

This is what the end game should be about. This is the only thing that gw2 is lacking. And it has nothing to do with gear grind or raids!

Gw1 PvE was about few skins to get… And it wasn’t so fun as some of you want it to be. Gw2 should be better then this!

I realise I may be playing devil’s advocate here, but it is possible that not everyone is playing the game in order to be admired by other people. I mean, I agree with you, I don’t think someone must be amazing at the game because they have X armour skin, as those will just as often be received as a result of time played over something achieved, but at the same time, I personally find I don’t admire that. I don’t look at people in game and think “ooh, they have X weapon/armour – they must be totally amazing!” That’s not the appeal of GW2 for me.

I’m not in any way saying it’s not the right attitude to have, simply suggesting that perhaps the game was designed more along different lines of thinking. I like to customize my chars because I like to do that – for no other reason. If someone else likes what I’ve done and comments, that’s lovely, but it’s in no way expected.

Naturally, others love to show off what they’ve done/achieved etc. Nothing wrong with that. At all. I really mean that. But I just don’t think that’s the demographic that GW2 has specifically targeted, and there’s nothing wrong with that either. I appreciate all the things you feel are missing from this game, and completely understand why you feel this way, but think you mistake GW2 for being the sort of game that will or SHOULD cater for that.

CrossedHorse.4261:

HiddenNick.7206:

Hjorje.9453:

I love the game and have a lot of fun playing it, but Claw of Jormag, Shatter, and other world bosses should feel like world bosses. That way when you go to fight them you feel like you accomplish something. It should have awesome rewards for doing it and the fights should last longer then a few minutes. I wouldn’t mind chasing Claw around frostgouge some and taking him down over a little longer period of time. Now it is stand there and hit a button, no thinking required.

It’s not just about the world bosses. Everything in the game should have a meaning. Problem is that you can’t compare yourself with others in PvE or WvW. I know that are things to farm out there (ranks and skins). But I don’t admire people for the fact that they spend a lot of time in the game. Do something that I can’t achieve and that’s something to be admired for.

This is what the end game should be about. This is the only thing that gw2 is lacking. And it has nothing to do with gear grind or raids!

Gw1 PvE was about few skins to get… And it wasn’t so fun as some of you want it to be. Gw2 should be better then this!

I realise I may be playing devil’s advocate here, but it is possible that not everyone is playing the game in order to be admired by other people. I mean, I agree with you, I don’t think someone must be amazing at the game because they have X armour skin, as those will just as often be received as a result of time played over something achieved, but at the same time, I personally find I don’t admire that. I don’t look at people in game and think “ooh, they have X weapon/armour – they must be totally amazing!” That’s not the appeal of GW2 for me.

I’m not in any way saying it’s not the right attitude to have, simply suggesting that perhaps the game was designed more along different lines of thinking. I like to customize my chars because I like to do that – for no other reason. If someone else likes what I’ve done and comments, that’s lovely, but it’s in no way expected.

Naturally, others love to show off what they’ve done/achieved etc. Nothing wrong with that. At all. I really mean that. But I just don’t think that’s the demographic that GW2 has specifically targeted, and there’s nothing wrong with that either. I appreciate all the things you feel are missing from this game, and completely understand why you feel this way, but think you mistake GW2 for being the sort of game that will or SHOULD cater for that.

If you are ok with the lack of goals then that fact is not your problem. But if the game is about nothing it’s a major flaw of that game. There are numerous threads with people complaining about the lack of goal/achievement/reward. And that’s the thing that needs to be fixed.

HiddenNick.7206:

CrossedHorse.4261:

HiddenNick.7206:

Hjorje.9453:

I love the game and have a lot of fun playing it, but Claw of Jormag, Shatter, and other world bosses should feel like world bosses. That way when you go to fight them you feel like you accomplish something. It should have awesome rewards for doing it and the fights should last longer then a few minutes. I wouldn’t mind chasing Claw around frostgouge some and taking him down over a little longer period of time. Now it is stand there and hit a button, no thinking required.

It’s not just about the world bosses. Everything in the game should have a meaning. Problem is that you can’t compare yourself with others in PvE or WvW. I know that are things to farm out there (ranks and skins). But I don’t admire people for the fact that they spend a lot of time in the game. Do something that I can’t achieve and that’s something to be admired for.

This is what the end game should be about. This is the only thing that gw2 is lacking. And it has nothing to do with gear grind or raids!

Gw1 PvE was about few skins to get… And it wasn’t so fun as some of you want it to be. Gw2 should be better then this!

I realise I may be playing devil’s advocate here, but it is possible that not everyone is playing the game in order to be admired by other people. I mean, I agree with you, I don’t think someone must be amazing at the game because they have X armour skin, as those will just as often be received as a result of time played over something achieved, but at the same time, I personally find I don’t admire that. I don’t look at people in game and think “ooh, they have X weapon/armour – they must be totally amazing!” That’s not the appeal of GW2 for me.

I’m not in any way saying it’s not the right attitude to have, simply suggesting that perhaps the game was designed more along different lines of thinking. I like to customize my chars because I like to do that – for no other reason. If someone else likes what I’ve done and comments, that’s lovely, but it’s in no way expected.

Naturally, others love to show off what they’ve done/achieved etc. Nothing wrong with that. At all. I really mean that. But I just don’t think that’s the demographic that GW2 has specifically targeted, and there’s nothing wrong with that either. I appreciate all the things you feel are missing from this game, and completely understand why you feel this way, but think you mistake GW2 for being the sort of game that will or SHOULD cater for that.

If you are ok with the lack of goals then that fact is not your problem. But if the game is about nothing it’s a major flaw of that game. There are numerous threads with people complaining about the lack of goal/achievement/reward. And that’s the thing that needs to be fixed.

Only if fixing it doesn’t affect the people who are enjoying it the way it is. No game can be all things to all people. What you’re actually saying is this needs to be fixed because some people don’t like it.

The problem is, if they “fix” it, they make it like every other MMO out there, which some of us don’t want.

The term fix implies broken. If 3 million people bought this game and 2.5 million people no longer play it, that leaves .5 million players. If 100,000 people don’t like it the way it is and 400,000 people do, then fixing it might well ruin the game for most people.

What you’re asking is for Anet to change the very nature of the game, which at this point MIGHT appeal to some people like you. But of course, what you’re asking for is in most other MMOs, so Anet will be facing greater competition than they are now.

But what if you’re not actually the demographic Anet is seeking. What if what they have is really what they intended, and you not liking it is not a sign of something wrong?

Just because “some” or even “many” people don’t like something, doesn’t make it bad.

Note: I should mention that Anet is going to revisit the loot system, they said so, and better drops aren’t a problem. But changing the goal structure of the game at this point very well might be.

HiddenNick.7206:

CrossedHorse.4261:

HiddenNick.7206:

Hjorje.9453:

I love the game and have a lot of fun playing it, but Claw of Jormag, Shatter, and other world bosses should feel like world bosses. That way when you go to fight them you feel like you accomplish something. It should have awesome rewards for doing it and the fights should last longer then a few minutes. I wouldn’t mind chasing Claw around frostgouge some and taking him down over a little longer period of time. Now it is stand there and hit a button, no thinking required.

It’s not just about the world bosses. Everything in the game should have a meaning. Problem is that you can’t compare yourself with others in PvE or WvW. I know that are things to farm out there (ranks and skins). But I don’t admire people for the fact that they spend a lot of time in the game. Do something that I can’t achieve and that’s something to be admired for.

This is what the end game should be about. This is the only thing that gw2 is lacking. And it has nothing to do with gear grind or raids!

Gw1 PvE was about few skins to get… And it wasn’t so fun as some of you want it to be. Gw2 should be better then this!

I realise I may be playing devil’s advocate here, but it is possible that not everyone is playing the game in order to be admired by other people. I mean, I agree with you, I don’t think someone must be amazing at the game because they have X armour skin, as those will just as often be received as a result of time played over something achieved, but at the same time, I personally find I don’t admire that. I don’t look at people in game and think “ooh, they have X weapon/armour – they must be totally amazing!” That’s not the appeal of GW2 for me.

I’m not in any way saying it’s not the right attitude to have, simply suggesting that perhaps the game was designed more along different lines of thinking. I like to customize my chars because I like to do that – for no other reason. If someone else likes what I’ve done and comments, that’s lovely, but it’s in no way expected.

Naturally, others love to show off what they’ve done/achieved etc. Nothing wrong with that. At all. I really mean that. But I just don’t think that’s the demographic that GW2 has specifically targeted, and there’s nothing wrong with that either. I appreciate all the things you feel are missing from this game, and completely understand why you feel this way, but think you mistake GW2 for being the sort of game that will or SHOULD cater for that.

If you are ok with the lack of goals then that fact is not your problem. But if the game is about nothing it’s a major flaw of that game. There are numerous threads with people complaining about the lack of goal/achievement/reward. And that’s the thing that needs to be fixed.

For every thread complaining, there are an equal number of responses saying that people are happy with it. You can’t please everyone.

I’m not saying the game doesn’t need work. A game like this always needs work. Similarly, I’m not saying I’m happy with every aspect of the game. I think the RNG element of the Mystic Forge for certain things like legendaries isn’t very well implemented, for instance.

I’m simply saying that the particular changes you are requesting seem to lie outside of the field of the demographic targeted by ANet when it comes to GW2. If vertical progression is what you want or NEED to make you enjoy the game, then you sort of missed the point of the aims of ANet when they created a game. They said right from the start that that sort of vertical progression wasn’t something they wanted to do. So if you need it then it might be worth choosing another MMO. If you enjoy the game despite this, then that’s great – but you can’t expect it from GW2 when they never claimed to have it.

Again, I see your reason for being dissatisfied. But a game can’t ever cater to every market out there as they conflict too much. Hopefully, the other aspects of GW2 are enough that you can overlook the things you feel it is missing. If not, then I wish you luck, and maybe ANet will change the game. However, I feel that at this point, you are asking them to go against the very fundamental designs they put in place when they conceived the idea of GW2 in the first place.

Vayne.8563, CrossedHorse.4261

You both seem to think that you cracked the code and know everything. This forum is about describing flaws of the game. Not about saying that it is ok for some people and tap each others back.

Problem that I’m describing is the major issue of the game. It appears that everyone knows about it but some people (like you two) are refusing to acknowledge that by saying that it is actually ok and fixing this will break the game! But what kind of game is one without a goal?

Let me put it this way: You know when depression starts? When you can’t find a purpose in your life. And that’s how the gw2 is: depressing!

PS. Would you be even bothered by the fact that there is a challenging content in the game? More or less like the one I described? I’m asking about your opinion – not a hypothetical gw2 community.

HiddenNick.7206:

Like fighting shatterer. It shouldn’t be only about a slight chance of getting a precursor. That fight should be about putting me at my limits to kill that dragon! Spend an hour fighting it and only using all my skills and with the help of hundreds of other people I would be able to defeat it. And maybe I would be also required to obtain a certain item (not like better stats gear, but more like agony resistance) to be able to even fight the dragon. To get that item I would be required to travel all over the world and complete numerous events. That would give me a reason to play! No gear grind or farming here! (from my point of view) Just a goal to follow!

I will admit, there is absolutely nothing better (challenge-wise) than defeating an impossible encounter, a boss, a dungeon whatever, using your own brain/skills. Forming the proper strategy, changing how you proceed (and failing miserably countless times) is an experience I’d love to see in the game.

However, even the hardest dungeon/raid in the hardest game out there, becomes farmable after all the tactics are discussed and the proper build and team compositions are found. Not to mention that the harder a boss encounter is, the more nerfs it will get, so even more and more players can finish it (See Skypirates subforum for nerf request for the AR dungeon). It happens in the vast majority of dungeons/raids in any game out there.

Those goals would be temporary and after a while you will be expected to know all the steps by heart and make 0 mistakes. You might be put to your limits to defeat Shatterer the first couple times, but after that it would be a brainless activity.

The Living Story could be an exception to this, if done properly. Since Living Story content can come and go quickly it won’t be as easily put to “farm” status as permanent content can.

PS: I remember the days when I put on my forum signature texts like “Proud killer of <boss name> – World/Server First” when I was (among with my guild mates) among the very first in the world to defeat a powerful boss. Perhaps something like that could be called an “achievement”?

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563, CrossedHorse.4261

You both seem to think that you cracked the code and know everything. This forum is about describing flaws of the game. Not about saying that it is ok for some people and tap each others back.

Problem that I’m describing is the major issue of the game. It appears that everyone knows about it but some people (like you two) are refusing to acknowledge that by saying that it is actually ok and fixing this will break the game! But what kind of game is one without a goal?

Let me put it this way: You know when depression starts? When you can’t find a purpose in your life. And that’s how the gw2 is: depressing!

PS. Would you be even bothered by the fact that there is a challenging content in the game? More or less like the one I described? I’m asking about your opinion – not a hypothetical gw2 community.

Man, if you find GW2 depressing, then I would 100% say to find a different game. I don’t know who would subject themselves to depression just for the heck of it. I, personally, don’t find GW2 depressing at all. I’ve enjoyed it since the beginning. I accept the game for its flaws, but the “no goal” thing isn’t really obvious to me.

I really don’t see how it is any different from the other MMOs I’ve played: UO, AC, WoW, CoX, AoC, Aion, Lineage2, Rift, etc. I find I am doing the same things in this game that I did in those games (minus the WoW style “?” and “!” questing system). No joke, I really don’t feel like GW2 has less of a goal than any of those other games.

What are the goals in those other games? Beat the dungeon boss? Then what? Wait for patch to kill next dungeon boss? Is that what you consider a goal? Maybe get max stat gear? Then what? Wait until the patch and get the new max stat gear? Are these the goals you are talking about? PvP has no goal if you don’t consider ranking a goal, so that obviously wouldn’t be one of your goals. I’m honestly curious.

Draknar.5748:

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563, CrossedHorse.4261

You both seem to think that you cracked the code and know everything. This forum is about describing flaws of the game. Not about saying that it is ok for some people and tap each others back.

Problem that I’m describing is the major issue of the game. It appears that everyone knows about it but some people (like you two) are refusing to acknowledge that by saying that it is actually ok and fixing this will break the game! But what kind of game is one without a goal?

Let me put it this way: You know when depression starts? When you can’t find a purpose in your life. And that’s how the gw2 is: depressing!

PS. Would you be even bothered by the fact that there is a challenging content in the game? More or less like the one I described? I’m asking about your opinion – not a hypothetical gw2 community.

Man, if you find GW2 depressing, then I would 100% say to find a different game. I don’t know who would subject themselves to depression just for the heck of it. I, personally, don’t find GW2 depressing at all. I’ve enjoyed it since the beginning. I accept the game for its flaws, but the “no goal” thing isn’t really obvious to me.

I really don’t see how it is any different from the other MMOs I’ve played: UO, AC, WoW, CoX, AoC, Aion, Lineage2, Rift, etc. I find I am doing the same things in this game that I did in those games (minus the WoW style “?” and “!” questing system). No joke, I really don’t feel like GW2 has less of a goal than any of those other games.

What are the goals in those other games? Beat the dungeon boss? Then what? Wait for patch to kill next dungeon boss? Is that what you consider a goal? Maybe get max stat gear? Then what? Wait until the patch and get the new max stat gear? Are these the goals you are talking about? PvP has no goal if you don’t consider ranking a goal, so that obviously wouldn’t be one of your goals. I’m honestly curious.

You people are becoming so boring… Are you copy pasting all those posts from each other?

“WoW sucks… Leave gw2 if you don’t like it… Raids suck… Because they suck… I enjoy traveling through Tyria… Gear grinder! Gear grinder! Buuuuurrrrnnn him!”

If your so curious then read through ALL my posts in this thread.

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563, CrossedHorse.4261

You both seem to think that you cracked the code and know everything. This forum is about describing flaws of the game. Not about saying that it is ok for some people and tap each others back.

Problem that I’m describing is the major issue of the game. It appears that everyone knows about it but some people (like you two) are refusing to acknowledge that by saying that it is actually ok and fixing this will break the game! But what kind of game is one without a goal?

Let me put it this way: You know when depression starts? When you can’t find a purpose in your life. And that’s how the gw2 is: depressing!

PS. Would you be even bothered by the fact that there is a challenging content in the game? More or less like the one I described? I’m asking about your opinion – not a hypothetical gw2 community.

I MIGHT be bothered by more challenging content depending on exactly how that content was implemented.

There are a whole lot of people who love achievements in this game. Some of them want to get every achievement. It’ll keep them busy for ages. But then you make some content that has something someone simply can’t get…for whatever reason.

Though I managed to do the Christmas jumping puzzle, I didn’t finish the Halloween one. It’s the only Halloween achievement I don’t have. I hope it comes back next year so I can try again.

I probably wouldn’t mind permanent hard content, but I hate temporary hard content. It takes longer for some of us to work up to it, learn it, do it, master it, and two weeks isn’t enough. I’m not going to sit and practice one dungeon for two weeks, because it’s going away.

So I don’t think that hard content would work within the framework of the living story.

But I didn’t mind DOA or the Underworld existing in Guild Wars 1. What I did mind was the type of community those places foster. The sort of, having this build or hit the highway community.

Everything comes with a price. Even difficult content.

Vayne.8563:

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

Vayne.8563:

But Guild Wars 1 still wasnt’ DESIGNED around rewards. The rewards were THERE, but for the most part if you did a dungeon, you got a crappy gold that unless you were working for wisdom, you’d sell as an unid’ed gold.

There were rare drops in some dungeons like the bone dragon staff, and some people farmed them, but most never did. Maybe you got the rare black dye, white dye or lockpick, but most drops were crap.

People did farm, but they weren’t the majority. Most people just played the game and the drops were INCIDENTAL to the rest of it.

Just because YOU think in terms of drops doesn’t mean the game was designed for that to be the focus.

GW1 WASN’T designed around rewards, but you still needed them for gear progression. Either to replace the armor/weapons you had, or to sell in order to buy the armor you needed to move on in the game. NOT just the skins, but the stats. You’d have never left Drok’s and survived otherwise! (Henchies…no heroes, and I’m talking as the game was designed.)

You can get max level stuff for so cheap, it’s not relevant. It wasn’t drops. Max level armor was cheap.

Yes, max armor WAS cheap….but you still needed gold to buy it. Since tiered armor/weapons were designed into the game, you were required to buy them. And I don’t think you had the necessary gold to BUY a set if you were buying skills along the way…ANOTHER reason gold was required.

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

Vayne.8563:

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

Vayne.8563:

But Guild Wars 1 still wasnt’ DESIGNED around rewards. The rewards were THERE, but for the most part if you did a dungeon, you got a crappy gold that unless you were working for wisdom, you’d sell as an unid’ed gold.

There were rare drops in some dungeons like the bone dragon staff, and some people farmed them, but most never did. Maybe you got the rare black dye, white dye or lockpick, but most drops were crap.

People did farm, but they weren’t the majority. Most people just played the game and the drops were INCIDENTAL to the rest of it.

Just because YOU think in terms of drops doesn’t mean the game was designed for that to be the focus.

GW1 WASN’T designed around rewards, but you still needed them for gear progression. Either to replace the armor/weapons you had, or to sell in order to buy the armor you needed to move on in the game. NOT just the skins, but the stats. You’d have never left Drok’s and survived otherwise! (Henchies…no heroes, and I’m talking as the game was designed.)

You can get max level stuff for so cheap, it’s not relevant. It wasn’t drops. Max level armor was cheap.

Yes, max armor WAS cheap….but you still needed gold to buy it. Since tiered armor/weapons were designed into the game, you were required to buy them. And I don’t think you had the necessary gold to BUY a set if you were buying skills along the way…ANOTHER reason gold was required.

But you’re forgetting collectors along the way which would allow you to upgrade your armor for free, without gold. If I’m remembering correctly there were armor collectors, weren’t there?

So you could farm for gold to get your skills, and at the same time gather the items you need to trade with the collectors.

Vayne.8563:

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

Vayne.8563:

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

Vayne.8563:

But Guild Wars 1 still wasnt’ DESIGNED around rewards. The rewards were THERE, but for the most part if you did a dungeon, you got a crappy gold that unless you were working for wisdom, you’d sell as an unid’ed gold.

There were rare drops in some dungeons like the bone dragon staff, and some people farmed them, but most never did. Maybe you got the rare black dye, white dye or lockpick, but most drops were crap.

People did farm, but they weren’t the majority. Most people just played the game and the drops were INCIDENTAL to the rest of it.

Just because YOU think in terms of drops doesn’t mean the game was designed for that to be the focus.

GW1 WASN’T designed around rewards, but you still needed them for gear progression. Either to replace the armor/weapons you had, or to sell in order to buy the armor you needed to move on in the game. NOT just the skins, but the stats. You’d have never left Drok’s and survived otherwise! (Henchies…no heroes, and I’m talking as the game was designed.)

You can get max level stuff for so cheap, it’s not relevant. It wasn’t drops. Max level armor was cheap.

Yes, max armor WAS cheap….but you still needed gold to buy it. Since tiered armor/weapons were designed into the game, you were required to buy them. And I don’t think you had the necessary gold to BUY a set if you were buying skills along the way…ANOTHER reason gold was required.

But you’re forgetting collectors along the way which would allow you to upgrade your armor for free, without gold. If I’m remembering correctly there were armor collectors, weren’t there?

So you could farm for gold to get your skills, and at the same time gather the items you need to trade with the collectors.

No, I didn’t forget the collectors. They ALSO required grind in order to obtain items from THEM.

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

Vayne.8563:

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

Vayne.8563:

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

Vayne.8563:

But Guild Wars 1 still wasnt’ DESIGNED around rewards. The rewards were THERE, but for the most part if you did a dungeon, you got a crappy gold that unless you were working for wisdom, you’d sell as an unid’ed gold.

There were rare drops in some dungeons like the bone dragon staff, and some people farmed them, but most never did. Maybe you got the rare black dye, white dye or lockpick, but most drops were crap.

People did farm, but they weren’t the majority. Most people just played the game and the drops were INCIDENTAL to the rest of it.

Just because YOU think in terms of drops doesn’t mean the game was designed for that to be the focus.

GW1 WASN’T designed around rewards, but you still needed them for gear progression. Either to replace the armor/weapons you had, or to sell in order to buy the armor you needed to move on in the game. NOT just the skins, but the stats. You’d have never left Drok’s and survived otherwise! (Henchies…no heroes, and I’m talking as the game was designed.)

You can get max level stuff for so cheap, it’s not relevant. It wasn’t drops. Max level armor was cheap.

Yes, max armor WAS cheap….but you still needed gold to buy it. Since tiered armor/weapons were designed into the game, you were required to buy them. And I don’t think you had the necessary gold to BUY a set if you were buying skills along the way…ANOTHER reason gold was required.

But you’re forgetting collectors along the way which would allow you to upgrade your armor for free, without gold. If I’m remembering correctly there were armor collectors, weren’t there?

So you could farm for gold to get your skills, and at the same time gather the items you need to trade with the collectors.

No, I didn’t forget the collectors. They ALSO required grind in order to obtain items from THEM.

So Guild Wars 1 required grind, is what you’re saying.

The problem is, I didn’t grind in Guild Wars 1 either, except for titles at the very end for the HoM. Before the HoM calculator came out, I didn’t grind at all.

I got enough money by playing the game, without farming or grinding. And I do the same in Guild Wars 2.

I am fairly new to Guild Wars 2, never played Guild Wars. Wish I had now, but that ship has sailed.

Anyway, after about a month, I like so much about Guild Wars 2. The way the game has eliminated player conflicts, with individual loot and nodes spawns and such, is such a dramatic improvement. Looks great. I like the combat. It seems fairly complex; as though I have barely scratched the surface of skill and traits combinations.

But, the lack of rewards. It is starting to get to me. Like Dragonball, I love it. It is fun. But after getting it down and winning a few matches in a row, I did begin to feel the pain of no reward. What I am I doing this for? More candy, candy that I can’t really come up with a reason to have (I don’t really want the wings?

I know, y’ll are going to say it is inconsistent to kitten about something that I just admitted is fun. The sad reality is, for me at least, I guess I kind of do need to get some reward. I did like that part about WoW. Win enough Battleground matches and get the ability to buy some cool items that weren’t otherwise available.

Yes, I miss that and it bodes badly for my future with the game. But, as many have said, what else is there?

Roxian.1094:

After getting a character to max level I was saddened and stunned to realize all you had to do was have a maxed out profession to craft some exotics, browse the auction house for your other stuff you weren’t able to craft and you were done for 80% of your “gearing”.

Then iirc (it’s been a while since I quit) you had to get fractal level ten to get access to the ascended items, was only a matter of time till you had that one, if you already didn’t had it by doing those monthly/daily “achievements”.

There, you’re geared. Now what?

No other activity what so ever in this game will give you better stats. Every kittening exotic is the same. The only reason to run dungeons is to get vanity skins. Jezus kittening Christ, even the legendary doesn’t have better stats.

…

This is were I realized this game isn’t for me. I want to be challenged, be rewarded, be able to be min-max and kitten around with my gear, try out other things. A new dungeon? Cool! New gear? Ah no… No… But yay there’s a new backpack and new vanity items. That’s great for people who like that but that won’t help my dps or make my char grow, get better, push it to the limit. We don’t want all that, we want everybody to be the same and stay where we are… How does that make sense?

Oh yeah, it’s not about gear, it’s a bout skill, right? It’s about the experience?
Well… why not ALL of it? So everybody can have fun.

Not all of it because if you can obtain better gear, than much of skills goes out the window. Lower tier content becomes trivial and pvp becomes more based on what gear you have than how skilled you are.

This game has plenty of things to work towards, but it lacks something that apparently many gamers need. It doesn’t set your goals and challenges for you by having staggered and advancing rewards. It expects you to set your own goals whose rewards are mostly intrinsic. Its a much more adult game for better or worse because it does have a carrot on a stick held in front of you but instead lets you head for tha blueberry patch over there, or that mountain in the distance or even shoot for the moon.

farming

/10 characters

theenigma.3597:

Nah games USED to be about fun and entertainment, now they are just blatant money grabs masked in a mediocre game to keep you playing . Insert RNG cash shop rant here.

That’s a trend started by pay to play MMOs. WoW has been the worst game of all times, simply because it taught developers that yes, there are 12 million players willing to play through mediocre content just to grind and farm.

This is the true issue with MMORPGs. Their community is made by farmers, grinders, addicts and exploiters (who are all the same thing, in the end) interested in doing whatever mediocre content they can do in order to get a shiny reward. As long as developers will try to cater to this Skinner rat mentality, all MMOs will continue to be mediocre.

Roxian.1094:

After getting a character to max level I was saddened and stunned to realize all you had to do was have a maxed out profession to craft some exotics, browse the auction house for your other stuff you weren’t able to craft and you were done for 80% of your “gearing”.

Then iirc (it’s been a while since I quit) you had to get fractal level ten to get access to the ascended items, was only a matter of time till you had that one, if you already didn’t had it by doing those monthly/daily “achievements”.

There, you’re geared. Now what?

No other activity what so ever in this game will give you better stats. Every kittening exotic is the same. The only reason to run dungeons is to get vanity skins. Jezus kittening Christ, even the legendary doesn’t have better stats.

…

This is were I realized this game isn’t for me. I want to be challenged, be rewarded, be able to be min-max and kitten around with my gear, try out other things. A new dungeon? Cool! New gear? Ah no… No… But yay there’s a new backpack and new vanity items. That’s great for people who like that but that won’t help my dps or make my char grow, get better, push it to the limit. We don’t want all that, we want everybody to be the same and stay where we are… How does that make sense?

Oh yeah, it’s not about gear, it’s a bout skill, right? It’s about the experience?
Well… why not ALL of it? So everybody can have fun.

You’re completely out of touch with this community and this game.

Do you realize that what you’re complaining about was a selling point of this game. That even the slight upgrade to stats that ascended gear gives you caused a significant percentage of the game’s population to walk? That people are claiming that the addition of ascended gear was the equivalent of Anet lying to us?

Guild Wars 1 lasted 8 years with a much smaller gear ceiling than Guild Wars 2 has. It had only 20 levels, and it was MUCH MUCH easier to get max armor and weapons. In Guild Wars 1, you were fully geared in a much shorter amount of time and there was no way to get better stats ever on anything PERIOD.

And this was what Guild Wars 1 players wanted. It’s also why a lot of people came to this game. No stat creep. No gear creep.

In fact, Guild Wars 1’s only true expansion raised neither the character’s max level nor the gear cap.

What you’re asking for would literally destroy this game for people who waited for it for years..and you’re trying to make it sound like it’s unreasonable.

Maybe you should have done a modicum of research before you brought the game. Your post would be like me going into the WoW forums and complaining that the game has gear progression.

It’s completely against the design decisions upon which this game was sold.

Vayne.8563:

Roxian.1094:

After getting a character to max level I was saddened and stunned to realize all you had to do was have a maxed out profession to craft some exotics, browse the auction house for your other stuff you weren’t able to craft and you were done for 80% of your “gearing”.

Then iirc (it’s been a while since I quit) you had to get fractal level ten to get access to the ascended items, was only a matter of time till you had that one, if you already didn’t had it by doing those monthly/daily “achievements”.

There, you’re geared. Now what?

No other activity what so ever in this game will give you better stats. Every kittening exotic is the same. The only reason to run dungeons is to get vanity skins. Jezus kittening Christ, even the legendary doesn’t have better stats.

…

This is were I realized this game isn’t for me. I want to be challenged, be rewarded, be able to be min-max and kitten around with my gear, try out other things. A new dungeon? Cool! New gear? Ah no… No… But yay there’s a new backpack and new vanity items. That’s great for people who like that but that won’t help my dps or make my char grow, get better, push it to the limit. We don’t want all that, we want everybody to be the same and stay where we are… How does that make sense?

Oh yeah, it’s not about gear, it’s a bout skill, right? It’s about the experience?
Well… why not ALL of it? So everybody can have fun.

You’re completely out of touch with this community and this game.

Do you realize that what you’re complaining about was a selling point of this game. That even the slight upgrade to stats that ascended gear gives you caused a significant percentage of the game’s population to walk? That people are claiming that the addition of ascended gear was the equivalent of Anet lying to us?

Guild Wars 1 lasted 8 years with a much smaller gear ceiling than Guild Wars 2 has. It had only 20 levels, and it was MUCH MUCH easier to get max armor and weapons. In Guild Wars 1, you were fully geared in a much shorter amount of time and there was no way to get better stats ever on anything PERIOD.

And this was what Guild Wars 1 players wanted. It’s also why a lot of people came to this game. No stat creep. No gear creep.

In fact, Guild Wars 1’s only true expansion raised neither the character’s max level nor the gear cap.

What you’re asking for would literally destroy this game for people who waited for it for years..and you’re trying to make it sound like it’s unreasonable.

Maybe you should have done a modicum of research before you brought the game. Your post would be like me going into the WoW forums and complaining that the game has gear progression.

It’s completely against the design decisions upon which this game was sold.

Vayne you need to stop talking for the entire community! I did play Gw1 and bought this game hoping that it’s going to be different in many ways – also I know dozen of other people that feel exactly the same way. Why do you keep talking in my name when we disagree?!

We don’t need better stats on gear. But we need some kind of goals and rewards.

I know there some people that still play this game and are totally fine with it’s current state. But as you said earlier there are many that aren’t ok with it. Including me and many other players. Those still playing the game now and those that stopped. Your a type of conformist who is ok with the status quo and you persist to claim that players should be either happy about it or leave. How does that sound to you?! I think it’s insolent.

And if you think that the game is completely fine then I have a few questions for you:
- how could I ever be able to see Karka Queen if no one want’s to do that anymore? Because there is no reason to?
- if the gear grind is so bad for you. Then why it’s ok to make grind mechanics like tokens in dungeons (do the same thing 20 times and you can choose your armor).
- if the exploration is so fun for most of the people playing. Then why I see literally crowds of people entering cof and never meet anyone in that beautiful world exploring?
- do you think that it’s ok that all rewards that are put into the game are gem store based and the best way to acquire them is to farm gold?

This is the game you wanted so much?

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563:

Roxian.1094:

After getting a character to max level I was saddened and stunned to realize all you had to do was have a maxed out profession to craft some exotics, browse the auction house for your other stuff you weren’t able to craft and you were done for 80% of your “gearing”.

Then iirc (it’s been a while since I quit) you had to get fractal level ten to get access to the ascended items, was only a matter of time till you had that one, if you already didn’t had it by doing those monthly/daily “achievements”.

There, you’re geared. Now what?

No other activity what so ever in this game will give you better stats. Every kittening exotic is the same. The only reason to run dungeons is to get vanity skins. Jezus kittening Christ, even the legendary doesn’t have better stats.

…

snip

Oh yeah, it’s not about gear, it’s a bout skill, right? It’s about the experience?
Well… why not ALL of it? So everybody can have fun.

You’re completely out of touch with this community and this game.

Do you realize that what you’re complaining about was a selling point of this game. That even the slight upgrade to stats that ascended gear gives you caused a significant percentage of the game’s population to walk? That people are claiming that the addition of ascended gear was the equivalent of Anet lying to us?

Guild Wars 1 lasted 8 years with a much smaller gear ceiling than Guild Wars 2 has. It had only 20 levels, and it was MUCH MUCH easier to get max armor and weapons. In Guild Wars 1, you were fully geared in a much shorter amount of time and there was no way to get better stats ever on anything PERIOD.

And this was what Guild Wars 1 players wanted. It’s also why a lot of people came to this game. No stat creep. No gear creep.

In fact, Guild Wars 1’s only true expansion raised neither the character’s max level nor the gear cap.

What you’re asking for would literally destroy this game for people who waited for it for years..and you’re trying to make it sound like it’s unreasonable.

Maybe you should have done a modicum of research before you brought the game. Your post would be like me going into the WoW forums and complaining that the game has gear progression.

It’s completely against the design decisions upon which this game was sold.

Vayne you need to stop talking for the entire community! I did play Gw1 and bought this game hoping that it’s going to be different in many ways – also I know dozen of other people that feel exactly the same way. Why do you keep talking in my name when we disagree?!

We don’t need better stats on gear. But we need some kind of goals and rewards.

I know there some people that still play this game and are totally fine with it’s current state. But as you said earlier there are many that aren’t ok with it. Including me and many other players. Those still playing the game now and those that stopped. Your a type of conformist who is ok with the status quo and you persist to claim that players should be either happy about it or leave. How does that sound to you?! I think it’s insolent.

And if you think that the game is completely fine then I have a few questions for you:
- how could I ever be able to see Karka Queen if no one want’s to do that anymore? Because there is no reason to?
- if the gear grind is so bad for you. Then why it’s ok to make grind mechanics like tokens in dungeons (do the same thing 20 times and you can choose your armor).
- if the game is so cool for most of the people playing it. Then why I see literally crowds of people entering cof and never meet anyone in that beautiful world exploring?
- do you think that it’s ok that all rewards that are put into the game are gem store based and the best way to acquire them is to farm gold?

This is the game you wanted so much?

You misrepresent me. Obviously you don’t read my posts as carefully as you think you do.

I have never said people shouldn’t complain. I have said that people shouldn’t complain about the core game that was created as it was intended to be created.

I wouldn’t go on a WoW forum and complain about raids, gear grind or mounts, because that’s what that game is about as an intentional design decision. People who play that game want those things…or should.

And Guild Wars 2 was designed without gear grind being the most important thing in the game. Those who require gear grind to be added to the game (more than it already has) are asking the designers of the game to change a core concept of the game….and that’s not rational.

It’s like buying a chess program and asking the designers to put in more RNG.

Developers have a view what the game they’re trying to make. Why is it wrong to remind people of that?

Vayne.8563:

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563:

You’re completely out of touch with this community and this game.

Do you realize that what you’re complaining about was a selling point of this game. That even the slight upgrade to stats that ascended gear gives you caused a significant percentage of the game’s population to walk? That people are claiming that the addition of ascended gear was the equivalent of Anet lying to us?

Guild Wars 1 lasted 8 years with a much smaller gear ceiling than Guild Wars 2 has. It had only 20 levels, and it was MUCH MUCH easier to get max armor and weapons. In Guild Wars 1, you were fully geared in a much shorter amount of time and there was no way to get better stats ever on anything PERIOD.

And this was what Guild Wars 1 players wanted. It’s also why a lot of people came to this game. No stat creep. No gear creep.

In fact, Guild Wars 1’s only true expansion raised neither the character’s max level nor the gear cap.

What you’re asking for would literally destroy this game for people who waited for it for years..and you’re trying to make it sound like it’s unreasonable.

Maybe you should have done a modicum of research before you brought the game. Your post would be like me going into the WoW forums and complaining that the game has gear progression.

It’s completely against the design decisions upon which this game was sold.

Vayne you need to stop talking for the entire community! I did play Gw1 and bought this game hoping that it’s going to be different in many ways – also I know dozen of other people that feel exactly the same way. Why do you keep talking in my name when we disagree?!

We don’t need better stats on gear. But we need some kind of goals and rewards.

I know there some people that still play this game and are totally fine with it’s current state. But as you said earlier there are many that aren’t ok with it. Including me and many other players. Those still playing the game now and those that stopped. Your a type of conformist who is ok with the status quo and you persist to claim that players should be either happy about it or leave. How does that sound to you?! I think it’s insolent.

And if you think that the game is completely fine then I have a few questions for you:
- how could I ever be able to see Karka Queen if no one want’s to do that anymore? Because there is no reason to?
- if the gear grind is so bad for you. Then why it’s ok to make grind mechanics like tokens in dungeons (do the same thing 20 times and you can choose your armor).
- if the game is so cool for most of the people playing it. Then why I see literally crowds of people entering cof and never meet anyone in that beautiful world exploring?
- do you think that it’s ok that all rewards that are put into the game are gem store based and the best way to acquire them is to farm gold?

This is the game you wanted so much?

You misrepresent me. Obviously you don’t read my posts as carefully as you think you do.

I have never said people shouldn’t complain. I have said that people shouldn’t complain about the core game that was created as it was intended to be created.

I wouldn’t go on a WoW forum and complain about raids, gear grind or mounts, because that’s what that game is about as an intentional design decision. People who play that game want those things…or should.

And Guild Wars 2 was designed without gear grind being the most important thing in the game. Those who require gear grind to be added to the game (more than it already has) are asking the designers of the game to change a core concept of the game….and that’s not rational.

It’s like buying a chess program and asking the designers to put in more RNG.

Developers have a view what the game they’re trying to make. Why is it wrong to remind people of that?

I didn’t misrepresent you because all I wrote about you is true.

You are telling people to stop complaining or leave and you call anything that you want a “core game”. But that’s just an excuse. People that say the game is boring and needs some goals are not always demanding gear grind or raids and changing the “holy core of the game”. But you appear to be always thinking this way.
Also you didn’t even try to explain yourself that you keep talking for the entire community when you don’t have a right to.

Why don’t you respond to any of my other questions? If you think that’s the “holy core of the game” is so important and perfect for the real “COMMUNITY” you keep talking about.

Also… I want to remind you one more time: I’m NOT talking in any part of any of my posts that I want gear progression, raids or mounts! So just stop referring to that!

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563:

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563:

You’re completely out of touch with this community and this game.

Do you realize that what you’re complaining about was a selling point of this game. That even the slight upgrade to stats that ascended gear gives you caused a significant percentage of the game’s population to walk? That people are claiming that the addition of ascended gear was the equivalent of Anet lying to us?

Guild Wars 1 lasted 8 years with a much smaller gear ceiling than Guild Wars 2 has. It had only 20 levels, and it was MUCH MUCH easier to get max armor and weapons. In Guild Wars 1, you were fully geared in a much shorter amount of time and there was no way to get better stats ever on anything PERIOD.

And this was what Guild Wars 1 players wanted. It’s also why a lot of people came to this game. No stat creep. No gear creep.

In fact, Guild Wars 1’s only true expansion raised neither the character’s max level nor the gear cap.

What you’re asking for would literally destroy this game for people who waited for it for years..and you’re trying to make it sound like it’s unreasonable.

Maybe you should have done a modicum of research before you brought the game. Your post would be like me going into the WoW forums and complaining that the game has gear progression.

It’s completely against the design decisions upon which this game was sold.

Vayne you need to stop talking for the entire community! I did play Gw1 and bought this game hoping that it’s going to be different in many ways – also I know dozen of other people that feel exactly the same way. Why do you keep talking in my name when we disagree?!

We don’t need better stats on gear. But we need some kind of goals and rewards.

I know there some people that still play this game and are totally fine with it’s current state. But as you said earlier there are many that aren’t ok with it. Including me and many other players. Those still playing the game now and those that stopped. Your a type of conformist who is ok with the status quo and you persist to claim that players should be either happy about it or leave. How does that sound to you?! I think it’s insolent.

And if you think that the game is completely fine then I have a few questions for you:
- how could I ever be able to see Karka Queen if no one want’s to do that anymore? Because there is no reason to?
- if the gear grind is so bad for you. Then why it’s ok to make grind mechanics like tokens in dungeons (do the same thing 20 times and you can choose your armor).
- if the game is so cool for most of the people playing it. Then why I see literally crowds of people entering cof and never meet anyone in that beautiful world exploring?
- do you think that it’s ok that all rewards that are put into the game are gem store based and the best way to acquire them is to farm gold?

This is the game you wanted so much?

You misrepresent me. Obviously you don’t read my posts as carefully as you think you do.

I have never said people shouldn’t complain. I have said that people shouldn’t complain about the core game that was created as it was intended to be created.

I wouldn’t go on a WoW forum and complain about raids, gear grind or mounts, because that’s what that game is about as an intentional design decision. People who play that game want those things…or should.

And Guild Wars 2 was designed without gear grind being the most important thing in the game. Those who require gear grind to be added to the game (more than it already has) are asking the designers of the game to change a core concept of the game….and that’s not rational.

It’s like buying a chess program and asking the designers to put in more RNG.

Developers have a view what the game they’re trying to make. Why is it wrong to remind people of that?

I didn’t misrepresent you because all I wrote about you is true.

You are telling people to stop complaining or leave and you call anything that you like “core game”. But that’s just an excuse. People that say the game is boring and needs some goals are not always demanding gear grind or raids and changing the “holy core of the game”. But you appear to be always thinking this way.
Also you didn’t even try to explain yourself that you keep talking for the entire community when you don’t have a right to.

Why don’t you respond to any of my other questions? If you think that’s the “holy core of the game” is important and perfect for the more important players (I mean true gw players like you).

Also… I want to remind you one more time: I’m NOT talking in any part of any of my posts that I want gear progression, raids or mounts! So just stop referring to that!

Show me where I told people to stop complaining and leave.

Would you like me to show you where I’ve complained about the game?

Vayne.8563:

Show me where I told people to stop complaining and leave.

One of many examples:

Vayne.8563:

If you need to accomplish something other than fun in your down time, if you need to be spoonfed go here and do this, go here and do that to keep you going, if you need to constantly test yourself to try to prove something, then you might be well playing the wrong game.

Vayne.8563:

Would you like me to show you where I’ve complained about the game?

Yes please.

Or answer my questions (that would be even nicer):

And if you think that the game is completely fine then I have a few questions for you:
- how could I ever be able to see Karka Queen if no one want’s to do that anymore? Because there is no reason to?
- if the gear grind is so bad for you. Then why it’s ok to make grind mechanics like tokens in dungeons (do the same thing 20 times and you can choose your armor).
- if the exploration is so fun for most of the people playing. Then why I see literally crowds of people entering cof and never meet anyone in that beautiful world exploring?
- do you think that it’s ok that all rewards that are put into the game are gem store based and the best way to acquire them is to farm gold?

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563:

If you need to accomplish something other than fun in your down time, if you need to be spoonfed go here and do this, go here and do that to keep you going, if you need to constantly test yourself to try to prove something, then you might be well playing the wrong game.
Show me where I told people to stop complaining and leave.

Would you like me to show you where I’ve complained about the game?

One of many examples:

Vayne.8563:

If you need to accomplish something other than fun in your down time, if you need to be spoonfed go here and do this, go here and do that to keep you going, if you need to constantly test yourself to try to prove something, then you might be well playing the wrong game.

Might well be playing the wrong game is not saying you should leave. It’s a simple statement of logic. It’s a suggestion that if someone isn’t finding what they want in a game it MIGHT be the wrong game for them.

If you can’t see a difference between these two things, I guess there’s nothing else to talk about.

HiddenNick.7206:

I mean… In most of other MMO’s it’s all about achievement. Developers gives you new ways to acquire more powerful items and then you can use those items to overcome certain challenges and receive even more powerful gear or other rewards like unique skins or mounts.

On other hand in guild wars 2… You just farm gold or look for better ways to farm gold (it’s the easiest way to earn all of the game rewards). Or participate in the new events with no particular objective. Just for doubtful fun? I mean… Are all those mini games worth playing? I have a lot more fun playing on my smartphone 1$ games.

There is not even a slight feeling of achievement here.

I think by removing the item hunt, and they probably did it with good reasons, is the main part of people leaving?
Even in relatively boring game diablo 3 there are still people playing lots because of the item hunt. And maybe that leads to elitetis behaviour but I do not care about that. There should always be better items, even by a margin that makes people go after them. Visuals on the legendaries are nice, better random stats makes them worth more.

I love dungeons, world bosses and wvw. You think way too much, enjoy what you like in the game and if you can’t – find another hobby.

Vayne.8563:

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563:

If you need to accomplish something other than fun in your down time, if you need to be spoonfed go here and do this, go here and do that to keep you going, if you need to constantly test yourself to try to prove something, then you might be well playing the wrong game.
Show me where I told people to stop complaining and leave.

Would you like me to show you where I’ve complained about the game?

One of many examples:

Vayne.8563:

If you need to accomplish something other than fun in your down time, if you need to be spoonfed go here and do this, go here and do that to keep you going, if you need to constantly test yourself to try to prove something, then you might be well playing the wrong game.

Might well be playing the wrong game is not saying you should leave. It’s a simple statement of logic. It’s a suggestion that if someone isn’t finding what they want in a game it MIGHT be the wrong game for them.

Dude… So maybe I’ll just put it this way: what do you suggest me to do if you think that any of my suggestions can’t be considered as good for the game? Because they are pretty deal breakers to me. So? What should I do? Leave?

I’m pretty sure that’s the answer is: YES. And there you have it… Your not telling me to leave, you are just leaving me without a choice and this is what wrote about you: “your telling people to deal with the flaws of the game or leave”.

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

Sorry, Vayne, but reward systems in games have been there for centuries. In chess, you won the war.

In WvW you won the match and moved up to be the best server,
you’re ranked on achievement points,
in your own personal story you win against a dragon. Why do you think the winning in GW2, unlike in chess has to be material?

The point is, GW2 is DESIGNED TO RELY ON GEAR PROGRESSION

http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/ask-me-anything-with-studio-design-director-chris-whiteside/ ascended is the last gear tier. They’re not heading for full gear progression. If they would they would go against their own advertisements:
“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

As I stated earlier; you can’t start the game and play it all the way through with starter armor and starter weapons.

You couldn’t finish GW1 in starter armor either. You can however be okay doing content in level 80 blues.

HiddenNick.7206:

- how could I ever be able to see Karka Queen if no one want’s to do that anymore? Because there is no reason to?
- if the gear grind is so bad for you. Then why it’s ok to make grind mechanics like tokens in dungeons (do the same thing 20 times and you can choose your armor).
- if the exploration is so fun for most of the people playing. Then why I see literally crowds of people entering cof and never meet anyone in that beautiful world exploring?
- do you think that it’s ok that all rewards that are put into the game are gem store based and the best way to acquire them is to farm gold?

1. Organize a guild clear. I don’t get to see Baltazar either unless my guild does it.
2. Because it’s the least grindy system so far? 3 different paths that you can do in a day – you’ll easily be fully geared in a week.
3. People have different play styles. I always meet people in the open. Sure, some farm CoF. If that’s how they want to play then more power to them.
4. I did not run into this problem. Never did I need to buy gems with money to get anything in this game and there’s plenty of things that I couldn’t. I couldn’t buy ascended items, I couldn’t get the gloves from F and F, I couldn’t get the backpacks from Southsun, I couldn’t get the helmets and one pair of the wings from Dragon Bash, I can’t get any of the dungeon skins.

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563:

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563:

If you need to accomplish something other than fun in your down time, if you need to be spoonfed go here and do this, go here and do that to keep you going, if you need to constantly test yourself to try to prove something, then you might be well playing the wrong game.
Show me where I told people to stop complaining and leave.

Would you like me to show you where I’ve complained about the game?

One of many examples:

Vayne.8563:

If you need to accomplish something other than fun in your down time, if you need to be spoonfed go here and do this, go here and do that to keep you going, if you need to constantly test yourself to try to prove something, then you might be well playing the wrong game.

Might well be playing the wrong game is not saying you should leave. It’s a simple statement of logic. It’s a suggestion that if someone isn’t finding what they want in a game it MIGHT be the wrong game for them.

Dude… So maybe I’ll just put it this way: what do you suggest me to do if you think that any of my suggestions can’t be considered as good for the game? Because they are pretty deal breakers to me. So? What should I do? Leave?

I’m pretty sure that’s the answer is: YES. And there you have it… Your not telling me to leave, you are just leaving me without a choice and this is what wrote about you: “your telling people to deal with the flaws of the game or leave”.

I’m telling you that devs make design decisions in their game and I’m telling you that if your idea of fun doesn’t match the devs decision of fun, that doesn’t necessarily make the game bad, or make it something wrong with the game.

A whole lot of people don’t like minecraft. A whole lot of people love minecraft. It’s developed a huge following.

If you don’t like that TYPE of game, you shouldn’t e playing that TYPE of game.

So some suggestions like the reward system could be a little more generous…well yeah…that’s a decent suggestion. No problem there.

Having an LFG tool, good suggestion no problem there.

Making the game something it’s not and was never intended to be by making it about gear progression will effectively destroy this game. You don’t see it and you don’t believe it, but it doesn’t make it untrue.

I love this game, but I’ll stop playing if it becomes that. And I’m not the only person who plays like me.

Then you have a game that has to compete against dozens of other games that do the same thing.

Where is the logic in that?

HiddenNick.7206:

I mean… In most of other MMO’s it’s all about achievement. Developers gives you new ways to acquire more powerful items and then you can use those items to overcome certain challenges and receive even more powerful gear or other rewards like unique skins or mounts.

On other hand in guild wars 2… You just farm gold or look for better ways to farm gold (it’s the easiest way to earn all of the game rewards). Or participate in the new events with no particular objective. Just for doubtful fun? I mean… Are all those mini games worth playing? I have a lot more fun playing on my smartphone 1$ games.

There is not even a slight feeling of achievement here.

It’s about helping the races of an imaginary fantasy realm called Tyria get together and fight against a common enemy.

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563, CrossedHorse.4261

You both seem to think that you cracked the code and know everything. This forum is about describing flaws of the game. Not about saying that it is ok for some people and tap each others back.

Problem that I’m describing is the major issue of the game. It appears that everyone knows about it but some people (like you two) are refusing to acknowledge that by saying that it is actually ok and fixing this will break the game! But what kind of game is one without a goal?

Let me put it this way: You know when depression starts? When you can’t find a purpose in your life. And that’s how the gw2 is: depressing!

PS. Would you be even bothered by the fact that there is a challenging content in the game? More or less like the one I described? I’m asking about your opinion – not a hypothetical gw2 community.

I’m not saying this at all, and frankly think you can’t have really understood anything I’ve said if you think I’m saying that challenging content will break the game.

I also don’t think the forum is a place to just tap each other’s backs and say “job well done”. That is a condescending attitude to take, and I completely disagree with it. I have never said once that I am entirely satisfied with the game. And I’ve not even disagreed with you about what you feel is missing. But I do disagree that some of what you’ve asked for is what the direction the game should go in is, simply because of what the game was claiming to be in the first place. Your changes would go against that.

My opinion? If that challenging content didn’t add in time gates or gear progression leading to grind etc, then no, of course I don’t mind it. I never said I did. What I object to is that the “challenging content” suggestions people seem to have all involve gear progression, which excludes ANet’s designated target demographic.

CrossedHorse.4261:

What I object to is that the “challenging content” suggestions people seem to have all involve gear progression, which excludes ANet’s designated target demographic.

I never said I want gear progression. But I don’t care as much as you do.

Either way challenge does not mean gear progression. And if the only thing I get for playing are skins. Then I don’t want them to be just a time sink.

HiddenNick.7206:

CrossedHorse.4261:

What I object to is that the “challenging content” suggestions people seem to have all involve gear progression, which excludes ANet’s designated target demographic.

I never said I want gear progression. But I don’t care as much as you do.

Either way challenge does not mean gear progression. And if the only thing I get for playing are skins. Then I don’t want them to be just a time sink.

And I never disagreed with this. Not all of the posts on this thread are aimed directly at you. As the discussion evolves so do the number of comments and ideas that have to be responded to.

I don’t think skins need to be just a time sink either. I’m quite happy for the content to achieve them to be challenging. I just, as I said, don’t want it gated behind stuff that means they are immediately cut off to certain people. So time sinks are a problem for the people with less time. Why can’t they have the skins too? And people who only play solo find having content only available after completing X number of dungeon runs annoying. The skins should be available across the board … behind dungeons if you must, but ALSO available via other means. Random drops, gem store purchases. I don’t mind, provided people feel as though they aren’t being excluded because of CIRCUMSTANCES alone.

HiddenNick.7206:

I mean… In most of other MMO’s it’s all about achievement. Developers gives you new ways to acquire more powerful items and then you can use those items to overcome certain challenges and receive even more powerful gear or other rewards like unique skins or mounts.

On other hand in guild wars 2… You just farm gold or look for better ways to farm gold (it’s the easiest way to earn all of the game rewards). Or participate in the new events with no particular objective. Just for doubtful fun? I mean… Are all those mini games worth playing? I have a lot more fun playing on my smartphone 1$ games.

There is not even a slight feeling of achievement here.

Let’s be honest, it’s about,