Guild Wars 2

So ever since Ascended stuff came out everyone’s been screaming that the game turned into a huge grind. So…… where is that grind?

On paper, Ascended stuff looks like a hugeass list of mats to put on your to-grind list but if you just look at what it actually is, it’s basically stuff you get from playing any of the major contents of the game. Comparing it to a grind is like saying every Zelda game is a grind for pieces of the Triforce/whatever else is in its place.

There is a very subtle difference between a grind and not giving it to you on a silver platter.

Besides, when was the last tone you saw half the Temples in Orr actually uncontested before this update?

But people want to play the way they want…meaning doing the absolutely minimum they can to get the absolute best pay off. What’s the point of even playing at all.

There is definitely an element of grind in the new weapons, OP, but like everything else in this game, just by playing you’ll eventually get it.

The grind is only a grind people people want stuff now.

Vayne.8563:

But people want to play the way they want…meaning doing the absolutely minimum they can to get the absolute best pay off. What’s the point of even playing at all.

There is definitely an element of grind in the new weapons, OP, but like everything else in this game, just by playing you’ll eventually get it.

The grind is only a grind people people want stuff now.

True. Grind only shows when you do everything in a hurry.

Also for the people out there, it’s “play however you want”, not “get whatever you want.”

The worst part of it is getting crafting from 400 to 500.

After that actually making a weapon is kind of easy. The 2 week time frame they gave during the live stream last week is pretty close for some one who can play but maybe not 5+ hours a day.

knives.6345:

Vayne.8563:

But people want to play the way they want…meaning doing the absolutely minimum they can to get the absolute best pay off. What’s the point of even playing at all.

There is definitely an element of grind in the new weapons, OP, but like everything else in this game, just by playing you’ll eventually get it.

The grind is only a grind people people want stuff now.

True. Grind only shows when you do everything in a hurry.

Also for the people out there, it’s “play however you want”, not “get whatever you want.”

Exactly. Take drag ores for example.

If you don’t like doing megabosses, you can get them through WvW or Temples, you can also get a good amount from invasions if people actually get to Scarlet. That’s play how you want.

Heh, i would have preferred ascended weapons to not be account bound though. Having 8 avatars means i have to “discover” i ton of exotics

One thing for sure, the Dark Matters are NOT something I’d get naturally over time as people play the game. Those you need to get out of you way to grind.

^ actually, you do. You can just buy exotics gloves using dungeon tokens (which even a casual like me has a metric ton of), and since you only need 10 of them, it’s not like you need to spam-run dungeons anyways.

stof.9341:

One thing for sure, the Dark Matters are NOT something I’d get naturally over time as people play the game. Those you need to get out of you way to grind.

You can do anything to make money, buy cheap exotics off the TP (there are plenty now) and salvage them to get the dark matter.

Vayne.8563:

stof.9341:

One thing for sure, the Dark Matters are NOT something I’d get naturally over time as people play the game. Those you need to get out of you way to grind.

You can do anything to make money, buy cheap exotics off the TP (there are plenty now) and salvage them to get the dark matter.

You can salvage those CoF and Karma lvl 80’s as well if 1.5g is too rich for your blood. Don’t forget you also get ecto and crafting materials.

Having to spend a lot of money (either in gold or mats), time to craft to 500 (some of us don’t have 400 crafting and really dislike crafting in general) and many of us come from WvW where “loot” and gold drops necessary for getting an ascended makes it… a grind. I have gotten a handful of exotics the entire time I have played WvW and that is north of 1k hours.

I am glad some players have easier access to this content because of the way they play the game, but many others are going to have to spend a considerable amount of time playing parts of the game they don’t really care for to get an item that keeps the playing field level.

I doubt this would be the same conversation if this item required a couple thousand badges to make… I mean sure WvW players would be gleeful and it woudn’t be a grind to them, but for some players it would be a grind.

I was talking about this from a PvE perspective, and I do agree that, as usual, WvW is a bit slanted off. Having said that, there are plenty of options to get the actual ascended mats in WvW.

I still think WvW should be a separate game mode like sPvP with its own rewards though.

As for parts of the process coming from areas of the game people don’t enjoy. You can’t make a process which everyone will find perfect because everyone likes different parts of the game.

Xae Isareth.1364:

So ever since Ascended stuff came out everyone’s been screaming that the game turned into a huge grind. So…… where is that grind?

On paper, Ascended stuff looks like a hugeass list of mats to put on your to-grind list but if you just look at what it actually is, it’s basically stuff you get from playing any of the major contents of the game. Comparing it to a grind is like saying every Zelda game is a grind for pieces of the Triforce/whatever else is in its place.

There is a very subtle difference between a grind and not giving it to you on a silver platter.

Besides, when was the last tone you saw half the Temples in Orr actually uncontested before this update?

It’s the sheer volume of repeating content that you have no interest in… in other words, nothing new…just grind.

So I gotta craft my way up to 500 for one weapon? All those resources in and inflated economy, then after all that make an ascended (since this is the only real way to get your stats) yup seems legit. Best money making method is champ farming, if that’s not a grind I don’t know what is.

Not everyone had 400 of each weapon crafting profession, 10 stacks of ectos and 10 stacks of ori, with reserve stored ancient wood logs (thanks for the skyrocket btw >>) along with lucky life time drops of 3 precursors and 5+ exotics a week. And 100g on hand when the patch went live.

Know what’s not a grind? Forking over 500 Dungeon tokens, Jumping puzzles, mini dungeons, a single 1v1 challenging fight like liadri but better.

Know what is a grind? Champ farming for 10 hours!

I’ll admit sitting at 400 crafting no it’s not a grind … If you have the resources stored or the saved gold. If not? You get shafted and only “not a grind” option you have left is… Spending RL money. Seems legit.

Oh yeah RNG is an option… /Wrath!

Daishi.6027:

So I gotta craft my way up to 500 for one weapon? All those resources in and inflated economy, then after all that make an ascended (since this is the only real way to get your stats) yup seems legit. Best money making method is champ farming, if that’s not a grind I don’t know what is.

Not everyone had 400 of each weapon crafting profession, 10 stacks of ectos and 10 stacks of ori, with reserve stored ancient wood logs (thanks for the skyrocket btw >>) along with lucky life time drops of 3 precursors and 5+ exotics a week. And 100g on hand when the patch went live.

Know what’s not a grind? Forking over 500 Dungeon tokens, Jumping puzzles, mini dungeons, a single 1v1 challenging fight like liadri but better.

Know what is a grind? Champ farming for 10 hours!

I’ll admit sitting at 400 crafting no it’s not a grind … If you have the resources stored or the saved gold. If not? You get shafted and only “not a grind” option you have left is… Spending RL money. Seems legit.

Yup, stockpiling resurces for a YEAR and now going around saying its not a grind…it just makes me smile.

I bet they didnt have enough gathered mats for 2 weapons when patch went live (noticed gathered).

A YEAR.

MikaHR.1978:

Daishi.6027:

So I gotta craft my way up to 500 for one weapon? All those resources in and inflated economy, then after all that make an ascended (since this is the only real way to get your stats) yup seems legit. Best money making method is champ farming, if that’s not a grind I don’t know what is.

Not everyone had 400 of each weapon crafting profession, 10 stacks of ectos and 10 stacks of ori, with reserve stored ancient wood logs (thanks for the skyrocket btw >>) along with lucky life time drops of 3 precursors and 5+ exotics a week. And 100g on hand when the patch went live.

Know what’s not a grind? Forking over 500 Dungeon tokens, Jumping puzzles, mini dungeons, a single 1v1 challenging fight like liadri but better.

Know what is a grind? Champ farming for 10 hours!

I’ll admit sitting at 400 crafting no it’s not a grind … If you have the resources stored or the saved gold. If not? You get shafted and only “not a grind” option you have left is… Spending RL money. Seems legit.

Yup, stockpiling resurces for a YEAR and now going around saying its not a grind…it just makes me smile.

I bet they didnt have enough gathered mats for 2 weapons when patch went live (noticed gathered).

A YEAR.

You only need to make about 8 exotics to get to 450 from 400, and in the last month ive gotten about 300 ori bars and enough ancient wood to build a house with just from exploring and salvaging all the junk I get….. From playing like 2 hours a day. And it’s very hard to complain about how it costs so much because simply, prices are decided by supply and demand and the devs have little control over what happens to them without making a lot of people rage very hard.

And regarding the best money making method being champ farming. That’s because it’s pretty much a complete exploit of the system which Anet for whatever reason has thus far refused to fix.

Xae Isareth.1364:

You only need to make about 8 exotics to get to 450 from 400

Last time I checked, you need to be 500 in the craft to make ascended weapons, not 450.

stof.9341:

Xae Isareth.1364:

You only need to make about 8 exotics to get to 450 from 400

Last time I checked, you need to be 500 in the craft to make ascended weapons, not 450.

After 450 you can just refine Ascended stuff up to 500.

Xae Isareth.1364:

After 450 you can just refine Ascended stuff up to 500.

I’m pretty sure you’ll not get to 500 by refining mats with a level 450 recipe. Not to mention that they are time gated and very limited.

Xae Isareth.1364:

So ever since Ascended stuff came out everyone’s been screaming that the game turned into a huge grind. So…… where is that grind?

On paper, Ascended stuff looks like a hugeass list of mats to put on your to-grind list but if you just look at what it actually is, it’s basically stuff you get from playing any of the major contents of the game. Comparing it to a grind is like saying every Zelda game is a grind for pieces of the Triforce/whatever else is in its place.

There is a very subtle difference between a grind and not giving it to you on a silver platter.

You have to look at the bigger picture .. not only ONE Weapon, but maybe 3 weapons and 6 pieces of armor in the next future. Oh and don’t forget people who have a lot alts and/or use more weapons and armorsets with different stats.

Beldin.5498:

Xae Isareth.1364:

So ever since Ascended stuff came out everyone’s been screaming that the game turned into a huge grind. So…… where is that grind?

On paper, Ascended stuff looks like a hugeass list of mats to put on your to-grind list but if you just look at what it actually is, it’s basically stuff you get from playing any of the major contents of the game. Comparing it to a grind is like saying every Zelda game is a grind for pieces of the Triforce/whatever else is in its place.

There is a very subtle difference between a grind and not giving it to you on a silver platter.

You have to look at the bigger picture .. not only ONE Weapon, but maybe 3 weapons and 6 pieces of armor in the next future. Oh and don’t forget people who have a lot alts and/or use more weapons and armorsets with different stats.

I am looking at the big picture. You don’t play an MMO for 2 weeks. You play it for months, maybe years. The whole idea is to give people stuff to do. You may not personally need that but a whole lot of people seem to.

Beldin.5498:

Xae Isareth.1364:

So ever since Ascended stuff came out everyone’s been screaming that the game turned into a huge grind. So…… where is that grind?

On paper, Ascended stuff looks like a hugeass list of mats to put on your to-grind list but if you just look at what it actually is, it’s basically stuff you get from playing any of the major contents of the game. Comparing it to a grind is like saying every Zelda game is a grind for pieces of the Triforce/whatever else is in its place.

There is a very subtle difference between a grind and not giving it to you on a silver platter.

You have to look at the bigger picture .. not only ONE Weapon, but maybe 3 weapons and 6 pieces of armor in the next future. Oh and don’t forget people who have a lot alts and/or use more weapons and armorsets with different stats.

I don’t really see the problem there really. Unless you want everything given to you right away, you’re basically just playing the game doing whatever you want whilst progressively getting better gear. It’s only problem if you’re someone who can’t enjoy the game unless you’re decked in BiS gear.

The only ‘problem’ is in WvW, but I can count the number if fair 1v1 fights Ive had with 1 hand, and half of those invokes either getting ambushed by a thief or getting interrupted halfway by my opponents 20 man backup zerg. And since that 5% wouldn’t matter in a huge Zerg, ad even less amongst WvW upgrades and food discrepancies, it doesn’t really matter at all.

Ascended armour is something I hope they never introduce though, although they probably will. But that’s more to do with balancing in WvW than a grind to get them.

For the people out there, it’s “play however you want”, not “get whatever you want.”

Gw2 is not L T W ( Log in TO win ).

For me ascended means that none of my characters are complete now. There is now a hole which a bit of “ocd” wants me to fill. To fill this whole it’ll take me over a year (10-80s, multiple weapon sets per). As long as they are incomplete there will be this nagging in the back of mind of whether or not how I am playing is completing my characters again. In other words it will be effecting how I am playing, not for fun, but for the sole purpose of completing my account yet again.

Although I may have not agreed with a lot of how this game has been handle none of which has been implemented has effected me to such a degree. In one fell swoop this update added over a years worth of what I consider “grind”. I consider it grind b/c it will effect how I play, where I play, and with who I play. I almost get burnt out on it just thinking about it. Imo it’s really demoralizing.

Ofc like many others I do not want things handed to me on a silver platter. Idk why so many posters manifest concerns into “instant”…..it’s unfounded. At the same time I really think the time gating here is over the top simply due to alts and multiple weapon sets.

I’d really like to hear some feedback from the devs concerning alts. Considering the game comes with 5 they really do seem to do all they can to pigeon us into playing only 1.

Vayne.8563:

I am looking at the big picture. You don’t play an MMO for 2 weeks. You play it for months, maybe years. The whole idea is to give people stuff to do. You may not personally need that but a whole lot of people seem to.

Now you got it, that’s the only sense of ascended items…to keep the people busy.

No thanks, I’m here for a fun game not a second job.

I’d rather have seen that you could buy them from tokens you’ve earned after completion of the new revamped worlds boss encounters together with some new dungeons. Instead of this amazing boring craft war.

We should be fair and remove all grind then.
You need to grind to get rewards in dungeons. So remove the tokens.
You need to grind to get exotic weapons, remove them.
That leaves only rares which are easy to get. So why not remove all the types and just stick with common which we can all get. Since we do not want to grind.
Same with weapons, trinkets, etc..
Then why not just let everyone choice everything they want at the start of the game like PvP. Grinding is gone.
Loot is then only gold, otherwise you can get grinding since we do not want to play a lot of time to get something. Actually, you no longer need gold since you get everything at the start. We can remove that too. Same with karma, laurels and everything else.
I feel like this is an adventure platform game then and not a MMO or is that just me?
And if so are they playing the wrong genre?

Myrnar.7960:

Vayne.8563:

I am looking at the big picture. You don’t play an MMO for 2 weeks. You play it for months, maybe years. The whole idea is to give people stuff to do. You may not personally need that but a whole lot of people seem to.

Now you got it, that’s the only sense of ascended items…to keep the people busy.

No thanks, I’m here for a fun game not a second job.

Busy doesn’t have to mean a job. Television keeps people busy too…but it’s not a job. Themepark MMOs have always been nothing more than a list of things to do. Whether it’s the next level, the next quest, the next item of gear, the next achievement, it’s the nature of the game.

Sounds to me like you’re looking for a sandbox MMO.

Myrnar.7960:

Vayne.8563:

I am looking at the big picture. You don’t play an MMO for 2 weeks. You play it for months, maybe years. The whole idea is to give people stuff to do. You may not personally need that but a whole lot of people seem to.

Now you got it, that’s the only sense of ascended items…to keep the people busy.

No thanks, I’m here for a fun game not a second job.

Well, simce apart from crafting, everything you need for Ascended items are from playing content in the game, none of which are gear-gear gated. So, does that mean you just don’t like the game then?

Xae Isareth.1364:

Well, simce apart from crafting, everything you need for Ascended items are from playing content in the game, none of which are gear-gear gated. So, does that mean you just don’t like the game then?

Maybe some people don’t like pressing 1 together with 100 other people? Check how you can acquire Dragonite Ores.

At least you can press alt-tab and still got full reward.

haviz.1340:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Well, simce apart from crafting, everything you need for Ascended items are from playing content in the game, none of which are gear-gear gated. So, does that mean you just don’t like the game then?

Maybe some people don’t like pressing 1 together with 100 other people? Check how you can acquire Dragonite Ores.

At least you can press alt-tab and still got full reward.

When it comes to GW2, alt-F4 fives best rewards

MikaHR.1978:

When it comes to GW2, alt-F4 gives best rewards

I play how I want.

haviz.1340:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Well, simce apart from crafting, everything you need for Ascended items are from playing content in the game, none of which are gear-gear gated. So, does that mean you just don’t like the game then?

Maybe some people don’t like pressing 1 together with 100 other people? Check how you can acquire Dragonite Ores.

At least you can press alt-tab and still got full reward.

We know that they’re revamping the world bosses, and for Temples, spamming 1 is what makes everyone rage at you. At Lyssa yesterday that’s exactly what happened, 75% of the people just refused to stop looking at her or dodge and just kept spamming 1, the fight took 5 times longer than it should have.

I think different people have very different ideas of what grind means.

IMO there is very little grind in GW2 and it’s almost all optional. But that’s because to me grind specifically means having to do the same thing, usually a short boring task, over and over again to reach your goal.

Japanese RPGs are really bad for this. If you add a new character to your party they’ll probably be far below everyone else’s level and unable to survive at whatever point you’ve reached. You can’t just keep playing with them in your party because even if they’re not targeted by all the enemies they will die quickly and repeatedly just from odd hits or AoE and then they will either get no experience or (depending on the game) even loose it, so your only option to level them up is to go back to an area you’ve already completed and walk round and round in circles fighting random monsters getting nothing to show for it but tiny bits of XP and some useless loot. Sometimes for hours on end.

Or the faction titles in GW1. You could finish every quest that gives factions points, get Masters on every mission in normal and hard mode, vanquish every area and you’ll still be far short of what you need. And you can’t do most of that again. Your only option is to play a huge number of JQ/FA/AB matches and/or vanquish the same areas over and over again.

GW2 by contrast has very little that you need to grind. Even the slayer and weapon master achievements are low enough that you’re likely to get them during the course of normal play (with one or two exceptions like the Giant Slayer and possible Shield Master titles).

There is a lot of stuff you can grind if you want to do it faster. But you don’t have to, you can get it over time just by playing normally and that’s a big difference.

Doing a combination of dungeons, JPs, temple events, world bosses, WvW and whatever else gives you ascended materials isn’t grind. In fact if you’re not doing any of that you’re either focusing entirely on the Living Story or you’re not playing at all. (Or you’re playing PvP and can’t use ascended gear anyway.)

fellyn.5083:

The worst part of it is getting crafting from 400 to 500.

After that actually making a weapon is kind of easy. The 2 week time frame they gave during the live stream last week is pretty close for some one who can play but maybe not 5+ hours a day.

I think part of the grind is the new 500 pieces to make anything of the new materials. It’s more actually of those types of items, things people are calling the T7 materials, twice as much of those are needed than what are generally needed of T6 materials for legendaries. Some of us feel this isn’t fair especially since for so long we’ve been cutoff from getting the T6 materials needed for crafting anything.

There’s also the problem of events. They still are based off of DPS participation so rezzing people in harder events probably won’t happen. I know the typical mmo player they generally ignore rezzing their fellow players especially if they think that they’ll miss the op for more damage or more loot. That also needs to be cleared up or fixed by Anet and yes we have provided them with examples of how to combat that problem and yes it does still exist. People in events simply don’t rez others usually and it’s worse when people who would normally rez don’t know other players are downed.

They need a couple of things. An autogroup for events option for groups larger then 5 people in the open world. And a system that grants players a bonus to loot chances when rezzing other players. That would solve that problem instantly and this is not the first time this has been a problem it’s been going on since the launch of the game, and it was proposed then too.

There’s also a question of whether DR will affect boss chests in these events specifically with the T7 items. If it does that’s yet another problem because when people who seem to have permanent DR on across their entire account all the time go and do an event will they be cutoff from these three materials for these items, these are important questions to be answered that definitely affects the time it takes to build the materials needed.

fellyn.5083:

The worst part of it is getting crafting from 400 to 500.

After that actually making a weapon is kind of easy. The 2 week time frame they gave during the live stream last week is pretty close for some one who can play but maybe not 5+ hours a day.

Ya I agree someone just playing the game as long as it is not focused on personal story hearts or regular Dynamic events(They really need to increase the rewards of the events just out there in the world) Someone could get it easily in 2 weeks time if they play less then 5 hours a day. A month if they are really casual.

stof.9341:

One thing for sure, the Dark Matters are NOT something I’d get naturally over time as people play the game. Those you need to get out of you way to grind.

After doing a bunch of world events last night I can see why people are the most concerned about dark matter. Luckily we do not need that many of them.

And for the BiS for WvW argument. I am currently running around in rares and doing just fine. The gap between exotic and ascended is even less.

the problem is forcing people into content like in this case the hunt for mats or even worse the crafting in general!
maybe i don’t want to craft, what about it? maybe i don’t want to jump again…

and most of all i’m tired of all this achievement that require all this time and repeating stuff to complete it… the gauntlet was good since you had to defeat those championce only once, but after flame and frost it’s been an ever ending increase of repeat after repeat…
they added new mats, but no new way to go about it, only recicle old content like jumping puzzles and mini dungeon among the all the old world bosses… and now we repeat to craft all over again, with stellar price for the t6 mats and no buyble or sellable finished product…

Xae Isareth.1364:

We know that they’re revamping the world bosses, and for Temples, spamming 1 is what makes everyone rage at you. At Lyssa yesterday that’s exactly what happened, 75% of the people just refused to stop looking at her or dodge and just kept spamming 1, the fight took 5 times longer than it should have.

Let them rage, I don’t really care. Anet forces me to be there with their another great content update. I’d rather do some challenging stuff like fotm 80 daily but can’t due to gear gate for which I need ascended crap. I play how I want.

After revamp, it still will be 111111 spam since zerging means your contribution is miniscule.

What you don’t think is a Grind OP, many others do, everyone is different, everyone has their opinions.

Me i think its a grind, not because of a huge list of mats for a weapon (which you need to grind to get) no the grind part is having to do it 5 – 8 times per character and being forced to do each one every 2 weeks Anets way not my way…

All this for items that are going to mess the game even more..

Anet:

Fun impacts loot collection.
The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

The rarest item have unique looks. Stop.
They were taking about legendaies, but now they are on pair with ascended. Stop.
Do you have to repeat again and again a specific content to get them? Yes.
Even if you don’t like that specific content? Yes.
Are some of us interested in this form of gamplay. No.
Will we be less strong than people with an ascended set? Yes.
Is all this invalidating their last sentence that sold us this game? Yes.

In a recent interview Colin Johanson said that they were not happy that people were able to full-equip their character in 1 or 2 weeks with exotics.

So Ascended are here to be carrots.

At least Colin said that he really hopes that this is not the beginning of a treadmill.

Sometimes I wonder what people would have said if they had put ascended also in a dungeon merchant for an amount of tokens that devs consider appropriate.

So I thought: if a max stats exotic GS costs like 2g and its equivalent in dungeon’s tokens is 390 (6,5 runs) an ascended GS, that costs like 58g, should costs something like 11.310 tokens.
Well 188,5 runs, 3 at day for 2 months, just for a single item.
But the limit is set to a specific dungeon, so you can always do more thant 3 paths daily and do your JOB working on other pieces farming other dungeons.

Aaah this would be so cool, because I know for sure that people would still come here, on this forum, with their white armors swearing that there is no grind at all.

What I see most is that people want gear and achievements without doing the activities required for them. It’s not even an issue of if an achievement or piece of gear is vital to progress, it’s simple OCD combined with a sense of “attendence = effort”.

There is another thread wherein a poster felt that it was somehow a failing of Anet that events actually had objectives that could be failed if they didn’t attended to them. Somehow they felt that they should’ve been able to ignore an objective, just farm the event mob spawns, and be rewarded as if they successfully completed the event.

I can’t even argue that in terms of game design, as that seems more like a defect in cognitive rationality.

Erick Alastor.3917:

Anet:

Fun impacts loot collection.
The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

The rarest item have unique looks. Stop.
They were taking about legendaies, but now they are on pair with ascended. Stop.
Do you have to repeat again and again a specific content to get them? Yes.
Even if you don’t like that specific content? Yes.
Are some of us interested in this form of gamplay. No.
Will we be less strong than people with an ascended set? Yes.
Is all this invalidating their last sentence that sold us this game? Yes.

In a recent interview Colin Johanson said that they were not happy that people were able to full-equip their character in 1 or 2 weeks with exotics.

So Ascended are here to be carrots.

At least Colin said that he really hopes that this is not the beginning of a treadmill.

Sometimes I wonder what people would have said if they had put ascended also in a dungeon merchant for an amount of tokens that devs consider appropriate.

So I thought: if a max stats exotic GS costs like 2g and its equivalent in dungeon’s tokens is 390 (6,5 runs) an ascended GS, that costs like 58g, should costs something like 11.310 tokens.
Well 188,5 runs, 3 at day for 2 months, just for a single item.
But the limit is set to a specific dungeon, so you can always do more thant 3 paths daily and do your JOB working on other pieces farming other dungeons.

Aaah this would be so cool, because I know for sure that people would still come here, on this forum, with their white armors swearing that there is no grind at all.

Finally someone who gets it!

haviz.1340:

Xae Isareth.1364:

We know that they’re revamping the world bosses, and for Temples, spamming 1 is what makes everyone rage at you. At Lyssa yesterday that’s exactly what happened, 75% of the people just refused to stop looking at her or dodge and just kept spamming 1, the fight took 5 times longer than it should have.

Let them rage, I don’t really care. Anet forces me to be there with their another great content update. I’d rather do some challenging stuff like fotm 80 daily but can’t due to gear gate for which I need ascended crap. I play how I want.

After revamp, it still will be 111111 spam since zerging means your contribution is miniscule.

You WILL DO IT and you WILL LOVE IT.

signed: ANet

;P

Solkard.5136:

What I see most is that people want gear and achievements without doing the activities required for them. It’s not even an issue of if an achievement or piece of gear is vital to progress, it’s simple OCD combined with a sense of “attendence = effort”.

There is another thread wherein a poster felt that it was somehow a failing of Anet that events actually had objectives that could be failed if they didn’t attended to them. Somehow they felt that they should’ve been able to ignore an objective, just farm the event mob spawns, and be rewarded as if they successfully completed the event.

I can’t even argue that in terms of game design, as that seems more like a defect in cognitive rationality.

There are some that want gear without effort that is true, but there are many of us who just want that effort to be based on a cosmetic improvement versus a stat improvement as they originally stated. I do not mind working for something, but chasing BiS as a carrot is not what sold me on this game and was not what Anet stated their design philosophy to be repeatedly before launch. Those of us that feel this way, and feel that they should be held to their word, simply have very little choice but to be vocal about it so that Anet can at least see that there is dissent amongst it’s player base. The stat grinders will leave this game when the next big thing comes along and if Anet continues down this path they will have also pushed away their original core audience as well.

Erick Alastor.3917:

Anet:

Fun impacts loot collection.
The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

The rarest item have unique looks. Stop.
They were taking about legendaies, but now they are on pair with ascended. Stop.
Do you have to repeat again and again a specific content to get them? Yes.
Even if you don’t like that specific content? Yes.
Are some of us interested in this form of gamplay. No.
Will we be less strong than people with an ascended set? Yes.
Is all this invalidating their last sentence that sold us this game? Yes.

In a recent interview Colin Johanson said that they were not happy that people were able to full-equip their character in 1 or 2 weeks with exotics.

So Ascended are here to be carrots.

At least Colin said that he really hopes that this is not the beginning of a treadmill.

Sometimes I wonder what people would have said if they had put ascended also in a dungeon merchant for an amount of tokens that devs consider appropriate.

So I thought: if a max stats exotic GS costs like 2g and its equivalent in dungeon’s tokens is 390 (6,5 runs) an ascended GS, that costs like 58g, should costs something like 11.310 tokens.
Well 188,5 runs, 3 at day for 2 months, just for a single item.
But the limit is set to a specific dungeon, so you can always do more thant 3 paths daily and do your JOB working on other pieces farming other dungeons.

Aaah this would be so cool, because I know for sure that people would still come here, on this forum, with their white armors swearing that there is no grind at all.

Exactly!
Like GW1, I would like to get the best gear “stat wise” in 20 min.
Like GW1, I am ok with spending 1000 hours for gears that have unique look.

Erick Alastor.3917:

Anet:

Fun impacts loot collection.
The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

The rarest item have unique looks. Stop.
They were taking about legendaies, but now they are on pair with ascended. Stop.
Do you have to repeat again and again a specific content to get them? Yes.
Even if you don’t like that specific content? Yes.
Are some of us interested in this form of gamplay. No.
Will we be less strong than people with an ascended set? Yes.
Is all this invalidating their last sentence that sold us this game? Yes.

In a recent interview Colin Johanson said that they were not happy that people were able to full-equip their character in 1 or 2 weeks with exotics.

So Ascended are here to be carrots.

At least Colin said that he really hopes that this is not the beginning of a treadmill.

Sometimes I wonder what people would have said if they had put ascended also in a dungeon merchant for an amount of tokens that devs consider appropriate.

So I thought: if a max stats exotic GS costs like 2g and its equivalent in dungeon’s tokens is 390 (6,5 runs) an ascended GS, that costs like 58g, should costs something like 11.310 tokens.
Well 188,5 runs, 3 at day for 2 months, just for a single item.
But the limit is set to a specific dungeon, so you can always do more thant 3 paths daily and do your JOB working on other pieces farming other dungeons.

Aaah this would be so cool, because I know for sure that people would still come here, on this forum, with their white armors swearing that there is no grind at all.

Nah, its not a grind if you have been grinding for past year and now have resources for 1 weapon.

So if you play how you want, in a years time you could make 2-3. And armors/sigils/runes/infusions will quite soon hit you.

Now, yes, if you organize your play around ANets schedule (yes, ANets schedule) you might be over sooner.

If someone has 12000 dungeon tokens from grinding dungeon in a past year, walking to a vendor is pretty much a breeze. What they conveniently forget is that for a second, and every next weapon, you will nee another 12000. Then armor will hit, 12000 tokens for every armor piece, then sigils/runes/infusions, each another 12000 tokens…

Prognosis: not good.

Vayne.8563:

But people want to play the way they want…meaning doing the absolutely minimum they can to get the absolute best pay off. What’s the point of even playing at all.

Nonsense.

“Playing the way you want” refers to if you don’t like a certain area or game mode, and you can play somewhere else and still get payoff elsewhere, assuming similar difficulty. Obviously killing ambient creatures all day shouldn’t be rewarded, but it’s not so black and white.

People only do the absolute minimum they want for something that isn’t fun. If the content involved was absolutely engaging, then the gameplay itself is the payoff. And even if they did, people play this game for many reasons, such as killing free time. To some of us, there’s a distinction between exploring the game’s content and having donkeys chase carrots. And guess which of these tends to get the “minimum effort done”.

Also, there are many degrees between unattainable and having it handed to you. Obviously such distinctions are arbitrary and are often based to individual situations.

Of course, I play WvW of which the payoff is pretty much a non-factor but that’s what I want to do. Have you considered that in-game rewards aren’t balanced across the many aspects of it, and this doesn’t apply to everyone?

Vayne.8563:

But people want to play the way they want…meaning doing the absolutely minimum they can to get the absolute best pay off. What’s the point of even playing at all.

Here, have it.

knives.6345:

True. Grind only shows when you do everything in a hurry.

Also for the people out there, it’s “play however you want”, not “get whatever you want.”

But it was. Or close to it at launch.

Don’t know if you played then but used to be weather crafting, Champ farming, Event farming, Dungeon farming, WvW or just plain ole playing the trading post game you could get max gear in (almost) every stat in (nearly) every slot. As the game when ton from launch those missing parts were added into the different parts of the game…

Then ascended came. suddenly you cannot be a full time crafter and get all your gear. Suddenly you cannot be full time dungeon runner and get your sets. This really changed the feel of the game from “play however you want” to “play however you want but you cannot get all your gear anymore unless you play how we want you to play”

I’m not saying it was good or bad. but it was a huge change from pre ascended to ascended… Then they fixed it. You can get all your trinkets in multiple ways now. the people rejoiced. Play how you want is back… Well Ascended weapons again spit in the face of that. You have to do XYZ to get them again.

As someone with an utterly “take it or leave it” approach to Ascended Gear (I would love a game with GW2’s scope that didn’t even employ levels or armor stats, for the record), I must admit that there’s a bit of subtle brilliance in introducing the materials needed to craft ascended gear into almost every area of existing content in the game, including those previously considered to be the most lacking in any meaningful rewards. And rather than enabling you to do something new that you weren’t able to do without it, your Ascended weapons will actually wind up coming as an additional reward for doing the content you enjoy and will continue to do with one in hand.

Put another way: if you’re not in an absolute rush to get it as quickly as humanly possible, you will literally acquire all the material components necessary for your weapons over time just by playing the game as you would even if ascended weapons didn’t exist. Ultimately, the true irony is that getting your crafting profession to 500 is by far the most onerous part of getting the weapons… but that only has to be done once.

It’s been pretty nice to see how this has revitalized content areas that were more or less constantly unpopular, as well as upped the populations present at those that had more recently been abandoned. When the in-game LFG comes in 12 days, I think we might really see some cool stuff. I know I’ll be taking random people to see Zho’Qafa Catacombs and the Flame Temple Tombs when I’m bored.