So...where the elder dragons be at?

So...where the elder dragons be at?

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Posted by: Jordo.5913

Jordo.5913

So since launch, we haven’t heard a single solitary thing about the elder dragons, in any of the living story.

In the Flame and Frost…i thought for sure it was going to head in the direction of Jormag…but sadly it was just flame legion + mole people…

In dragon bash, the event seemed to remind us, “Oh yeah, there are elder dragons out there making everyones life a living hell, but lets fight sky pirates instead!”

Will the elder dragons pop up in the living story, or will they only be added in those expansions they will eventually talk about?

If they haven’t even started on an expansion, I would assume its probably at least a year til we see it, and I feel like 2 years to fight another elder dragon could be too long of a wait for people.

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Posted by: Esplen.3940

Esplen.3940

Well, I’m sure they’ll make the next dragon fight a lot more exciting.

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Posted by: Zacchary.6183

Zacchary.6183

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Posted by: Dedlaw.9130

Dedlaw.9130

They will need to add entire maps for the areas to add in the other dragons, so they will most likely only be added with expansions.

Jormag is further up in the Shiverpeaks
Primordus is underground
Kralka-whathisname is in the Crystal Desert
And “Bubbles” controls the oceans so he will most likely come with the Elona (or hopefully Cantha? Cmon devs, pretty please?) expansion.

Dedlaw – Fresh 80 Zerker Warrior
DODGE!!! – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvS6zMThiZU

(edited by Dedlaw.9130)

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Posted by: TheDaiBish.9735

TheDaiBish.9735

They’re in their caves, getting armour made for their toenails to foil us from killing them.

In all seriousness though, they’ll prolly be introduced with the LS, after they’ve figured out what works and what doesn’t.

Life is a journey.
Time is a river.
The door is ajar.

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Posted by: Kasama.8941

Kasama.8941

I also made a topic about this a long time ago. It seems that no one knows what happens to the elder dragons after they wake up and fly around for a little while. Which is very strange considering how huge they are. Considering how powerful they are, it also doesn’t make any sense that they only stay in one area, instead of moving around all over the world. Maybe they wen’t back to sleep? :/

80 Ranger | 80 Mesmer | 80 Thief | 80 Guardian | 40 Engineer
“The learned is happy, nature to explore. The fool is happy, that he knows no more.”
-Alexander Pope

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Posted by: Dedlaw.9130

Dedlaw.9130

Woops, nevermind

Dedlaw – Fresh 80 Zerker Warrior
DODGE!!! – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvS6zMThiZU

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Posted by: NinjaEd.3946

NinjaEd.3946

Let them take their time on making the next elder dragon. After zhaitain Idk if the pve community can take another slap to the face. I got all hyped to fight it and whammo, such a disspointing firework show.

“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”

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Posted by: YuiRS.8129

YuiRS.8129

They will need to add entire maps for the areas to add in the other dragons, so they will most likely only be added with expansions.

Jormag is further up in the Shiverpeaks
Primordus is underground
Kralka-whathisname is in the Crystal Desert
And “Bubbles” controls the oceans so he will most likely come with the Elona (or hopefully Cantha? Cmon devs, pretty please?) expansion.

There will be no expansions, which leads me to believe there will be no dragons.

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Posted by: Yargesh.4965

Yargesh.4965

They will need to add entire maps for the areas to add in the other dragons, so they will most likely only be added with expansions.

Jormag is further up in the Shiverpeaks
Primordus is underground
Kralka-whathisname is in the Crystal Desert
And “Bubbles” controls the oceans so he will most likely come with the Elona (or hopefully Cantha? Cmon devs, pretty please?) expansion.

There will be no expansions, which leads me to believe there will be no dragons.

True, I did not eat raspberries yesterday or today so I am stating that raspberries do not exist.

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Posted by: Nuka Cola.8520

Nuka Cola.8520

In Dark Souls 2

Fact: every Thief tells you to “l2p” when the subject is to nerf stealth.

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Posted by: killcannon.2576

killcannon.2576

They will be introduced once other MMOs launch in an attempt to retain players.

Count on it.

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Posted by: Wolfheart.1938

Wolfheart.1938

Can we make the fight against Zhaitan decent first?

“We have no first-person view because stupid people would lock into it”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”

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Posted by: killcannon.2576

killcannon.2576

Can we make the fight against Zhaitan decent first?

That would actually take effort. Ignore Zhaitan and go beat that pinata over there.

No, not that one…the other one. There ya go.

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Posted by: No Walking.6349

No Walking.6349

Who cares, TESO will come out before the next dragon does, so it’s not like any of us will still be playing GW2

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Posted by: ExTribble.7108

ExTribble.7108

They will need to add entire maps for the areas to add in the other dragons, so they will most likely only be added with expansions.

Jormag is further up in the Shiverpeaks
Primordus is underground
Kralka-whathisname is in the Crystal Desert
And “Bubbles” controls the oceans so he will most likely come with the Elona (or hopefully Cantha? Cmon devs, pretty please?) expansion.

There will be no expansions, which leads me to believe there will be no dragons.

None planned for now. Colin himself said they aren’t ruling them out. Don’t spread falsehoods because it might prove a point.

Considering the elder dragons are the only true threat to the world, we will likely not see them come quickly. Once they’re all done people will get the feeling that they’re done with the game (I sure would), so the developers will likely prolong it as long as possible without turning people off the game.

“Any lump can hack bad guys to death, but it takes skill
and style to turn them into craters and dust.” -Tonn
Number-crunching for ecto salvages – periodically updated

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Posted by: TheDaiBish.9735

TheDaiBish.9735

Who cares, TESO will come out before the next dragon does, so it’s not like any of us will still be playing GW2

Everyone except those who will still be playing GW2 because they don’t care about TESO?

Life is a journey.
Time is a river.
The door is ajar.

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Posted by: Wolfheart.1938

Wolfheart.1938

TESO smells of flop to me but go ahead and buy it on day1, I’m sure it’ll work out very well like all the other MMOs

“We have no first-person view because stupid people would lock into it”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”

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Posted by: Dedlaw.9130

Dedlaw.9130

TESO smells of flop to me but go ahead and buy it on day1, I’m sure it’ll work out very well like all the other MMOs

Yeah from what I can tell it seems like TESO is promising a lot so I’m suspecting it will be delivering a lot less than expected (sound familiar to anyone?).

Then again, I might try it for a while because I’m a sucker for the world of Tamriel

Dedlaw – Fresh 80 Zerker Warrior
DODGE!!! – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvS6zMThiZU

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Posted by: Brutal Arts.6307

Brutal Arts.6307

Who cares, TESO will come out before the next dragon does, so it’s not like any of us will still be playing GW2

That’s not how you spell Wild Star

You have gotten what you paid for, all that remains is biweekly gemshop pushing.

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Posted by: killcannon.2576

killcannon.2576

Who cares, TESO will come out before the next dragon does, so it’s not like any of us will still be playing GW2

That’s not how you spell Wild Star

Lol, good stuff

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Posted by: Esplen.3940

Esplen.3940

Who cares, TESO will come out before the next dragon does, so it’s not like any of us will still be playing GW2

That’s not how you spell Wild Star

Sorry, you spelled Guild Wars 2 wrong… both of you.

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Posted by: Widowmaker Z.4802

Widowmaker Z.4802

they will show up in the cash shop, you’ll have to buy them to fight them.

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Posted by: Brutal Arts.6307

Brutal Arts.6307

Who cares, TESO will come out before the next dragon does, so it’s not like any of us will still be playing GW2

That’s not how you spell Wild Star

Sorry, you spelled Guild Wars 2 wrong… both of you.

So you’re saying
“Who cares, Guild Wars 2 will come out before the next dragon does, so it’s not like any of us will still be playing GW2”

If you’re going to continue the lowest common denominator it has to at least make sense.

You have gotten what you paid for, all that remains is biweekly gemshop pushing.

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Posted by: Destai.9603

Destai.9603

They will need to add entire maps for the areas to add in the other dragons, so they will most likely only be added with expansions.

Jormag is further up in the Shiverpeaks
Primordus is underground
Kralka-whathisname is in the Crystal Desert
And “Bubbles” controls the oceans so he will most likely come with the Elona (or hopefully Cantha? Cmon devs, pretty please?) expansion.

The expansions that may or may not happen?

I’d hope they’d add sorties with Dragon Generals and minions via the Living Story. You’d think that something would happen regularly with draconic forces, given that they’re a looming threat.

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Posted by: Sarabande.8260

Sarabande.8260

Dey be straight chillin in dey crib, yo. Funny as I don’ kno what how y’all be lunchin’ over dis game sometimes. Askin’ peeps where some dragons be at? Yo, son, you know where dey be. Stop playin,’ you ’bout to make me get all Mike Tyson up in here.

Translation:

The Elder Dragons are relaxing in their lair. It’s rather odd how you folks get over GW2, sometimes – I mean in terms of the questions you ask. You’re asking about the location of dragons, lol. Look bud, take a bit of time to check the wiki and you’ll find them. Stop being silly, you’re about to make me go crazy on these boards.

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Posted by: killcannon.2576

killcannon.2576

Dey be straight chillin in dey crib, yo. Funny as I don’ kno what how y’all be lunchin’ over dis game sometimes. Askin’ peeps where some dragons be at? Yo, son, you know where dey be. Stop playin,’ you ’bout to make me get all Mike Tyson up in here.

Translation:

The Elder Dragons are relaxing in their lair. It’s rather odd how you folks get over GW2, sometimes – I mean in terms of the questions you ask. You’re asking about the location of dragons, lol. Look bud, take a bit of time to check the wiki and you’ll find them. Stop being silly, you’re about to make me go crazy on these boards.

wow…just wow.

I hope you are joking and realize that the thread isn’t about their actual location.

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Posted by: Sarabande.8260

Sarabande.8260

Dey be straight chillin in dey crib, yo. Funny as I don’ kno what how y’all be lunchin’ over dis game sometimes. Askin’ peeps where some dragons be at? Yo, son, you know where dey be. Stop playin,’ you ’bout to make me get all Mike Tyson up in here.

Translation:

The Elder Dragons are relaxing in their lair. It’s rather odd how you folks get over GW2, sometimes – I mean in terms of the questions you ask. You’re asking about the location of dragons, lol. Look bud, take a bit of time to check the wiki and you’ll find them. Stop being silly, you’re about to make me go crazy on these boards.

wow…just wow.

I hope you are joking and realize that the thread isn’t about their actual location.

On the real, yo, just chill. What, cuz I like “dis and dat” you like “what?” Nah, young, dem dragons is chillin’ like I said. Hit up that wiki to get yourself knowledgefied. I was clear that bammas be lunchin,’ talkin’ ‘bout where some dragons be. You straight, bet – I mess with you like dat, but you trying to get all smart talking some “actual location” like we need GPS up in dis junt. What kinda people be talkin’ ‘bout “actual location” ’cept pilots that be droppin bombs on fools? Talking some “Foxtrot Alpha Charlie Tango… I got an actual location. Clear to engage? Over.” Nah, dogg, it ain’t like that – I know what’s up. Don’t be sleepin’ on me unless you wanna get snuck. I can drop some flows.

Translation:

Seriously, relax. Just because I made reference to the location of the dragons doesn’t necessarily mean I thought that’s what OP was referring to in the strictest sense. Still, on a level, the dragons are just doing their own thing, relaxing. Head on over to the wiki to learn more about the dragons. I thought I was being clear with the sarcasm, especially when I started talking about how people on the forums can be goofy, lol. You’re cool – no doubt you’re fun to be around, but you (lol) you came off like a stiff when you said “actual location” like we need to make use of GPS on these forums or in this game. It’s not common to hear people speak like that, not in this context at least. Who does that, mentions “actual location” in such a way except for maybe a fighter pilot going over orders of engagement, “Foxtrot Alpha Charlie Tango… I got an actual location. Clear to engage? Over.” No way, man, it’s not like that – I was just having a bit of fun. Still, I must warn you, don’t think that you can pull the verbal wool over my eyes, as I have a command over the language.

(edited by Sarabande.8260)

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Posted by: NinjaEd.3946

NinjaEd.3946

It would seem that posting a 2 sentence response would do some good here.

Translation:

It would seem that posting a 2 sentence response would do some good here.

“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”

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Posted by: Starscream.6498

Starscream.6498

I see someone’s having fun with Gizoogle’s textilizer.

On topic, tbh I don’t think we’ll be seeing them anytime soon, and they’re likely to have their own expansion if there ever will be plans for any, and if not, as mentioned, they will come along some… larger living world release. I suppose. ANet still fleshing out their tactics with this, if I’m not mistaken.

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Posted by: Ryan.2758

Ryan.2758

I am almost positive Primordus is underneath Divinty’s Reach.

Just go to the Great Collapse and talk to some of the npcs. They mention how the city was on solid rock, and that the kind of collapse in the city is normally characterized by something tunneling.

Now what is possibly big enough to tunnel a hole big enough to collapse an area the size of several football fields.

Also, if you look down, you can see some bridges etc., hinting that it could be possible later on that we explore it. And that is even touching on how cool of a plot twist it would be if humanity’s last bastion of hope were threatened by a resident elder dragon.

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

Considering the elder dragons are the only true threat to the world

Like the charr were. And the Mursaat. And the Lich. And the Titans. And Shiro. And Abaddon, and…
Somehow, i don’t think we’re gonna run out of enemies that fast.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

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Posted by: killcannon.2576

killcannon.2576

Dey be straight chillin in dey crib, yo. Funny as I don’ kno what how y’all be lunchin’ over dis game sometimes. Askin’ peeps where some dragons be at? Yo, son, you know where dey be. Stop playin,’ you ’bout to make me get all Mike Tyson up in here.

Translation:

The Elder Dragons are relaxing in their lair. It’s rather odd how you folks get over GW2, sometimes – I mean in terms of the questions you ask. You’re asking about the location of dragons, lol. Look bud, take a bit of time to check the wiki and you’ll find them. Stop being silly, you’re about to make me go crazy on these boards.

wow…just wow.

I hope you are joking and realize that the thread isn’t about their actual location.

On the real, yo, just chill. What, cuz I like “dis and dat” you like “what?” Nah, young, dem dragons is chillin’ like I said. Hit up that wiki to get yourself knowledgefied. I was clear that bammas be lunchin,’ talkin’ ‘bout where some dragons be. You straight, bet – I mess with you like dat, but you trying to get all smart talking some “actual location” like we need GPS up in dis junt. What kinda people be talkin’ ‘bout “actual location” ’cept pilots that be droppin bombs on fools? Talking some “Foxtrot Alpha Charlie Tango… I got an actual location. Clear to engage? Over.” Nah, dogg, it ain’t like that – I know what’s up. Don’t be sleepin’ on me unless you wanna get snuck. I can drop some flows.

Translation:

Seriously, relax. Just because I made reference to the location of the dragons doesn’t necessarily mean I thought that’s what OP was referring to in the strictest sense. Still, on a level, the dragons are just doing their own thing, relaxing. Head on over to the wiki to learn more about the dragons. I thought I was being clear with the sarcasm, especially when I started talking about how people on the forums can be goofy, lol. You’re cool – no doubt you’re fun to be around, but you (lol) you came off like a stiff when you said “actual location” like we need to make use of GPS on these forums or in this game. It’s not common to hear people speak like that, not in this context at least. Who does that, mentions “actual location” in such a way except for maybe a fighter pilot going over orders of engagement, “Foxtrot Alpha Charlie Tango… I got an actual location. Clear to engage? Over.” No way, man, it’s not like that – I was just having a bit of fun. Still, I must warn you, don’t think that you can pull the verbal wool over my eyes, as I have a command over the language.

Pretty much what I figured then.
Thank you for your valuable and informative addition to the topic.

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Posted by: joshc.3129

joshc.3129

“Our primary focus right now is on making the core Gw2 experience as strong and compelling as possible” – taken from Colin’s interveiw.

I guess what what Colin means by “making the core Gw2 experience as strong and compelling” is having the team push out short temp content, focusing really only on PvP/ WvW and adding in more items for the PvE crowd so the players have to grind to hell and back when they cry there’s nothing to do.

Kill stuff to unlock weapons skills, most confusing thing I ever heard of. (sarcasm)

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Posted by: Anzu.5702

Anzu.5702

Dey be straight chillin in dey crib, yo. Funny as I don’ kno what how y’all be lunchin’ over dis game sometimes. Askin’ peeps where some dragons be at? Yo, son, you know where dey be. Stop playin,’ you ’bout to make me get all Mike Tyson up in here.

Translation:

The Elder Dragons are relaxing in their lair. It’s rather odd how you folks get over GW2, sometimes – I mean in terms of the questions you ask. You’re asking about the location of dragons, lol. Look bud, take a bit of time to check the wiki and you’ll find them. Stop being silly, you’re about to make me go crazy on these boards.

wow…just wow.

I hope you are joking and realize that the thread isn’t about their actual location.

On the real, yo, just chill. What, cuz I like “dis and dat” you like “what?” Nah, young, dem dragons is chillin’ like I said. Hit up that wiki to get yourself knowledgefied. I was clear that bammas be lunchin,’ talkin’ ‘bout where some dragons be. You straight, bet – I mess with you like dat, but you trying to get all smart talking some “actual location” like we need GPS up in dis junt. What kinda people be talkin’ ‘bout “actual location” ’cept pilots that be droppin bombs on fools? Talking some “Foxtrot Alpha Charlie Tango… I got an actual location. Clear to engage? Over.” Nah, dogg, it ain’t like that – I know what’s up. Don’t be sleepin’ on me unless you wanna get snuck. I can drop some flows.

Translation:

Seriously, relax. Just because I made reference to the location of the dragons doesn’t necessarily mean I thought that’s what OP was referring to in the strictest sense. Still, on a level, the dragons are just doing their own thing, relaxing. Head on over to the wiki to learn more about the dragons. I thought I was being clear with the sarcasm, especially when I started talking about how people on the forums can be goofy, lol. You’re cool – no doubt you’re fun to be around, but you (lol) you came off like a stiff when you said “actual location” like we need to make use of GPS on these forums or in this game. It’s not common to hear people speak like that, not in this context at least. Who does that, mentions “actual location” in such a way except for maybe a fighter pilot going over orders of engagement, “Foxtrot Alpha Charlie Tango… I got an actual location. Clear to engage? Over.” No way, man, it’s not like that – I was just having a bit of fun. Still, I must warn you, don’t think that you can pull the verbal wool over my eyes, as I have a command over the language.

Why am I not surprised you play a thief

Xarvacious: Guardian | Xarvo: Engineer | Achiles Augustus: Warrior
[HIRE]
TC

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Posted by: Sarabande.8260

Sarabande.8260

Dey be straight chillin in dey crib, yo. Funny as I don’ kno what how y’all be lunchin’ over dis game sometimes. Askin’ peeps where some dragons be at? Yo, son, you know where dey be. Stop playin,’ you ’bout to make me get all Mike Tyson up in here.

Translation:

The Elder Dragons are relaxing in their lair. It’s rather odd how you folks get over GW2, sometimes – I mean in terms of the questions you ask. You’re asking about the location of dragons, lol. Look bud, take a bit of time to check the wiki and you’ll find them. Stop being silly, you’re about to make me go crazy on these boards.

wow…just wow.

I hope you are joking and realize that the thread isn’t about their actual location.

On the real, yo, just chill. What, cuz I like “dis and dat” you like “what?” Nah, young, dem dragons is chillin’ like I said. Hit up that wiki to get yourself knowledgefied. I was clear that bammas be lunchin,’ talkin’ ‘bout where some dragons be. You straight, bet – I mess with you like dat, but you trying to get all smart talking some “actual location” like we need GPS up in dis junt. What kinda people be talkin’ ‘bout “actual location” ’cept pilots that be droppin bombs on fools? Talking some “Foxtrot Alpha Charlie Tango… I got an actual location. Clear to engage? Over.” Nah, dogg, it ain’t like that – I know what’s up. Don’t be sleepin’ on me unless you wanna get snuck. I can drop some flows.

Translation:

Seriously, relax. Just because I made reference to the location of the dragons doesn’t necessarily mean I thought that’s what OP was referring to in the strictest sense. Still, on a level, the dragons are just doing their own thing, relaxing. Head on over to the wiki to learn more about the dragons. I thought I was being clear with the sarcasm, especially when I started talking about how people on the forums can be goofy, lol. You’re cool – no doubt you’re fun to be around, but you (lol) you came off like a stiff when you said “actual location” like we need to make use of GPS on these forums or in this game. It’s not common to hear people speak like that, not in this context at least. Who does that, mentions “actual location” in such a way except for maybe a fighter pilot going over orders of engagement, “Foxtrot Alpha Charlie Tango… I got an actual location. Clear to engage? Over.” No way, man, it’s not like that – I was just having a bit of fun. Still, I must warn you, don’t think that you can pull the verbal wool over my eyes, as I have a command over the language.

Why am I not surprised you play a thief

Why aren’t you, exactly?

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Posted by: Celestina.2894

Celestina.2894

They will need to add entire maps for the areas to add in the other dragons, so they will most likely only be added with expansions.

Jormag is further up in the Shiverpeaks
Primordus is underground
Kralka-whathisname is in the Crystal Desert
And “Bubbles” controls the oceans so he will most likely come with the Elona (or hopefully Cantha? Cmon devs, pretty please?) expansion.

There will be no expansions, which leads me to believe there will be no dragons.

Honest question, do you people read what you type and actually think your logic through?

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Posted by: Sarabande.8260

Sarabande.8260

Awww, I sorry to have offended anyone.

/tissues

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Posted by: Combustable.9470

Combustable.9470

This is a major thing in my ongoing interest in gw2, I discovered Wooden Potatoes and all his interesting theories and suddenly all this temporary, living world content that springs up out of nowhere lore wise isn’t as appealing. What happened to the ongoing dragon threat that this game seemingly was about? its like the Dev team has just said “too much work, lets make another minigame” and moved on. I want to interact with this already established lore rather than meeting some other upstart villain with little to no established lore grounding them.

Rant over.

…still love GW2, just would really like a major epic story to enjoy

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Posted by: Melchior.2135

Melchior.2135

I see someone’s having fun with Gizoogle’s textilizer.

!!!

How did I not know that this is a thing? My life is now complete.

On topic… it’s been a year, and the Elder Dragons storyline is frozen in time at the moment of Zhaitan’s anti-climatic demise. It seems to me that our reactions to Trahearne, the Pact, etc. were so underwhelming that they’ve abandoned that ship. The fact that their substitute is just a big excruciatingly slow buildup to a new Mary Sue Tree Elf shows that they haven’t actually learned anything about storytelling though.

If they pick back up the Elder Dragons Storyline, I expect it to be grudgingly, years from now, on a shoestring budget. Enjoy your “Living” Story!

Former Guild Wars 2 fan. RIP, ArenaNet’s integrity.

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Posted by: eisberg.2379

eisberg.2379

For all we know everything that has been happening since Flame and Frost has been planned by an Elder Dragon, perhaps Scarlet herself is actually an avatar of an Elder Dragon, or she serves the dragon. Personally I hope this is where the story is going.

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Posted by: ZudetGambeous.9573

ZudetGambeous.9573

For all we know everything that has been happening since Flame and Frost has been planned by an Elder Dragon, perhaps Scarlet herself is actually an avatar of an Elder Dragon, or she serves the dragon. Personally I hope this is where the story is going.

If that is what is happening then based on the current pace of the story we will find out that fact in 2025, and fight the next dragon in 2050.

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Posted by: Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217

Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217

For all we know everything that has been happening since Flame and Frost has been planned by an Elder Dragon, perhaps Scarlet herself is actually an avatar of an Elder Dragon, or she serves the dragon. Personally I hope this is where the story is going.

since we got a story about Scarlet’s birth, and Sylvari aren’t affected by Elder Dragons’ magic, I wouldn’t hold your breath.

So...where the elder dragons be at?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: eisberg.2379

eisberg.2379

For all we know everything that has been happening since Flame and Frost has been planned by an Elder Dragon, perhaps Scarlet herself is actually an avatar of an Elder Dragon, or she serves the dragon. Personally I hope this is where the story is going.

since we got a story about Scarlet’s birth, and Sylvari aren’t affected by Elder Dragons’ magic, I wouldn’t hold your breath.

Ok, that would take care of the avatar part of my theory. But does Scarlet have free will? Can she choose to serve an Elder Dragon? I would say that her serving an Elder Dragon is very much on the table.