Guild Wars 2

UPDATE::
Documentary of an eSport Phenomenon ~
http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/deply5/shift-the-league-of-legends-phenomenon

/UPDATE
_____________________________

With the recent announcement from League of Legends..

League of Legends is the most played game in the world
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/league-legends-community-infographic

Do you think Guild Wars 2 has what it takes to be a popular eSport?

Perhaps we could pick them apart.. and see what we can use to add to Guild Wars 2 that we don’t already have?

League offers::
1. PvP balance via Profile levels and Elo.
2. Player Progression utilizing the IP/Runes.
3. Potential “challenge” of pwning teh nubs!.. or getting your own face melted.
4. Options in available champion pool, summoner spells and character builds.

Oh and mascots, need something cute n’fluffy that’s fun to play and satisfying ta KILL!

LoL = Teemo
GW2 = ???
Other expamples.. FF = Moogles, Cactuar, Tonberry, ect..

*So what is GW2 missing?.. beyond the over-examination of “class balance” ~ what could they improve upon?

//Discuss ~

UPDATE::
I’m seeing some people are confused at GW2 being an eSport…
Basically, ANet announced their intentions to become an eSport awhile back.

Can see articles here:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/08/21/guild-wars-2-paves-the-way-for-e-sports/

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/08/21/guild-wars-2-pvp-designer-talks-e-sports-spectator-mode-and-streaming/

Also consider other modes that we currently don’t have access too, for example::

Hunger Royal::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgkLIB0GgaY&feature=youtu.be

Ah and if you want to see my previous article talking about PvE in GW2 Vs. LoL ~ can check it out here:: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/links/Rewarding-Gear-Treadmill

What’s an eSport?

@Qelris
It’s a game people play “competitively” usually for money via tournaments and ranked ladders.

Also see::
StarCraft 2
DotA2
Call of Duty

Internet Sport. Like lol, halo, cs etc… And my 2 cents, it never will be an E-sport.

Well between Rytlock being the CE and DD special pet and the Charr plushy, I’d nominate him as the GW2 mascot, even though he’s not exactly small, cute and fluffy in-game.

We really don’t need to turn yet another game in to an kitten stroking competition…seriously. Go play the aforementioned LoL if that’s what you want. GW is not that game.

Yes.
Based on the fact that there is an opening for this type of game.
Most genres that have a competitive scene are lead by one or two large popular games, RTS has Starcraft 2, FPS Halo etc with a lot of smaller games following behind them.
As far as I am aware there is no 8v8, 5v5, mmo 3rd person. So GW2 has the oppurtunity to deliver. When I played SWTOR we had a forum discussion about the possibility of making ‘Huttball’ and esport.

Marxo.3829:

Well between Rytlock being the CE and DD special pet and the Charr plushy, I’d nominate him as the GW2 mascot, even though he’s not exactly small, cute and fluffy in-game.

A Quaggan would be a better choice. When a company decides to push a playable race as a mascot, it tends to lead to bitterness and favouritism. A prime example of that would be the Orcs and Humans of WoW who are often thrust into the spotlight at the expense of other playable races getting recognition and screen-time.

Garenthal.1480:

Marxo.3829:

Well between Rytlock being the CE and DD special pet and the Charr plushy, I’d nominate him as the GW2 mascot, even though he’s not exactly small, cute and fluffy in-game.

A Quaggan would be a better choice. When a company decides to push a playable race as a mascot, it tends to lead to bitterness and favouritism. A prime example of that would be the Orcs and Humans of WoW who are often thrust into the spotlight at the expense of other playable races getting recognition and screen-time.

A bit late for that, isn’t it? While I like quaggans too they just don’t have the same in-game presence nor the popularity to symbolize the game.

As for racial popularity, everyone does it anyway from WoW’s night elf chick to SWTOR’s Darth Malgus.

huttball would be awesome for an esport

They are working on GvG, let’s hope it will be competitive.
Something like Dota2 or LoL would be extremely OP.

What some people don’t tend to realize is that GW2 is really 2 games in one. There is the regular PvE and WvW content which attracts mmorpg players. PvE and WvW have systems which mmorpg players are familiar with and get the hang of easily.

sPvP is a different animal. Regular mmorpg players probably try it, get facerolled, and then then QQ on forums and then go back to PvE/WvW. sPvP is for the competetive gaming audience. People who have played LoL, HoN, Dota and BLC are familiar with the fact that this kind of PvP requires a great deal of practice and you can’t expect yourself to be immediately good at it.

sPvP players never have to kill a single mob in PvE (after the opening storyline instance). While regular PvE/WvW players never need to play sPvP. The progression in one does not affect the progression in the other in any way. This is why GW2 is 2 games in one.

@Geff
Perhaps.. but does that really have any weight on the topic?

In league of legends, you have 30 levels.. used to get a player adjusted to the game and balance out “who” you’re fighting (IE: How experienced they are).

Progression in this manner is assisted by IP/Runes/Champ Pool.
In that you’re not overwhelmed with “choices” from the get go and can learn the game at your own pace.

GW2 doesn’t have that.. it’s “all or nothing” zero progression.. and unless you also PvE, you’ll have no attachment to your account what so ever.

At that point, there are also no actual tie-ins from PvE to PvP.. as you said, they’re separate ~ while that’s good for the eSport, it doesn’t do anything for the longevity of the game.

In this instance, GW2 incorporated WvW ~ which IS a tie-in!

This is where you go to fight other people and ofcourse, experience the world, to an extent.

However, WvW is currently suffering from “spam combat” ~ in that your individual skill or that of your “team” is irrelevant to the outcome, as all the other side needs to counter you… are more “aoe’s”.

This means that anyone that likes sPvP wont really bother with WvW and again.. GW2 lose that tie-in.

In otherwords.. sure GW2 is “2 games in one” ~ but can that really be considered a good thing? ~ given how it’s currently handled.

Real E-Sport happens in Tribes: Ascend
Hi-Rez is also working on Smite, which looks like it’ll be an E-Sport staple as well.

GW2 has a ton of potential to be that sort of game.

Kendu Kuzal.3985:

Real E-Sport happens in Tribes: Ascend
Hi-Rez is also working on Smite, which looks like it’ll be an E-Sport staple as well.

GW2 has a ton of potential to be that sort of game.

uh… you didn’t write anything about “why or why not”.

Though, personally… I would hope that ANet would NOT follow in High-Rez’s footsteps to be honest.

Mainly because of how they treat their games..

IE: High-Rez actually abandoned Tribes Ascend for Smite.. and Smite isn’t even out of beta with the announcement that they’ll be focusing on Global Agenda 2.

I mean, they’re a small studio and their games keep being abandoned due to their in ability to care about people “cheating”.

Which hardly makes for a good eSport.

It needs to keep its viewers on twitch over 200 first. Some day it might even get there.

I didn’t say anything about A-net handling their games like Hi-Rez and Tribes: Ascend offers some of the most competitive, balanced and cheat free E-Sport tournaments ANYWHERE. Public games may not be the same boat, but I’ve played a lot of them and never encountered a cheater. Tribes: Ascend also has NOT been abandoned by any means. Their resources are thinner at Hi-Rez so some development may have been pulled back, but they still release very good patches and updates. They’ve been releasing new maps and testing new maps, balancing weapons, etc. quite frequently

The reason GW2 has potential is because of its sPvP focused balancing. E-Sport wouldn’t happen in WvWvW as it’s open to anyone. sPvP and tournaments offer an avenue to provide E-Sport because the environments are contained. There is a lot of player skill involved in the PvP of this game as opposed to several other games within the “MMORPG” genre. Dodge offers a twitch/user interaction element that is essential in battle. That aspect lets the user have more of a role in the outcomes of their battles, which makes it more skill based. There is also a lot of class building that is not present in other MMORPGs. One class can fit SEVERAL roles, and be played to fit a niche within a group that has its own tactic. This is not the case in most MMORPGs, as the roles are pretty much defined.

TrickSmartly.7391:

It needs to keep its viewers on twitch over 200 first. Some day it might even get there.

Back when Towelliee and Kungen were playing GW2 on twitch.tv ~ they had between 12,000 and 20,000 viewers between the two of them, on a daily basis.

But, both of those guys went back to WoW and are doing dailies/raids/ect… and BOTH said that GW2 just doesn’t have anything more to do than Skyrim w/co-op.

If you’re looking for what they focused on:

Toweliee did Non-stop World vs World with his guilds.. dominating every server they could, leveling almost consecutively using WvW.

Kungen played GW2 through to lv80 on his main.. doing all the dungeons, ect ~ before he left GW2, he was playing around on an alt in sPvP.

There’s also another name for GW2.. but to my knowledge he doens’t stream ~ and that’s Woodenpotato. You can find his youtube channel here:: www.youtube.com/user/WoodenPotatoes

Just to clarify, I think GW2 has the POTENTIAL to be an E-Sport type of game.. I don’t believe it is ready NOW though.

Kendu Kuzal.3985:

Just to clarify, I think GW2 has the POTENTIAL to be an E-Sport type of game.. I don’t believe it is ready NOW though.

Ah, but see that’s the point of the topic

What would you like to see “done” to help push ANet in the right direction?

Granted, all ideas need to be tempered against the GW2 philosophy ~ most easily found in their Manifesto ~ http://youtu.be/35BPhT-KI1E

GW1 was all about esports, can´t see why they shouldn´t pull it off again. What they are missing now is the framework for it like the variety of GW1 pvp, ladders and GvG, which I am sure they will introduce rather soon.

GW1 has the best esport feature among all MMORPGs, even until now.
Somehow in GW2, they decided to give up the established model entirely, start from scratch and try to mimic some sort of FPS. A decision that I can not understand.

AlexanderFaust.4518:

Kendu Kuzal.3985:

Just to clarify, I think GW2 has the POTENTIAL to be an E-Sport type of game.. I don’t believe it is ready NOW though.

Ah, but see that’s the point of the topic

What would you like to see “done” to help push ANet in the right direction?

Granted, all ideas need to be tempered against the GW2 philosophy ~ most easily found in their Manifesto ~ http://youtu.be/35BPhT-KI1E

The easiest way to turn GW2 into eSport: Copy paste what they had in GW1.

I think Algreg summed up the majority of it. Once balancing is better, and we have the elements above, GW2 will have the necessary ingredients. All the basics are there, it just needs the polishing and actual framework for ladders and GvG.

I don’t really consider GW1 as comparable to GW2 as some people would like to think though. The basic elements are the same but it isn’t anywhere near the scale or complexity of GW2. I don’t even really consider GW1 and MMORPG. It was much more linear, shorter and drove you into PvP almost exclusively.

I would call GW1 a Competitive Multiplayer Online Game with RPG elements and I would call GW2 a Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplay Game with competitive elements.

Similar, but you can see the slight difference. I think GW1 was more E-sport oriented from the start.

Kendu Kuzal.3985:

I think Algreg summed up the majority of it. Once balancing is better, and we have the elements above, GW2 will have the necessary ingredients. All the basics are there, it just needs the polishing and actual framework for ladders and GvG.

I don’t really consider GW1 as comparable to GW2 as some people would like to think though. The basic elements are the same but it isn’t anywhere near the scale or complexity of GW2. I don’t even really consider GW1 and MMORPG. It was much more linear, shorter and drove you into PvP almost exclusively.

I would call GW1 a Competitive Multiplayer Online Game with RPG elements and I would call GW2 a Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplay Game with competitive elements.

Similar, but you can see the slight difference. I think GW1 was more E-sport oriented from the start.

GW1’s Battle Isle and GW2’s Mist are exactly the same thing with different names. What happens there stays there, nothing to do with the PvE part of both games. In GW1, at least PvP and PvE gears are the same. In GW2, you cant even use PvE gear in Mist and the PvP gears have different stats from their PvE conterparts.

I’m enjoying sPvP but I’m uncertain if GW2’s system is rich enough to prove satisfying esport. Seems like LoL is richer in potential, variety and whatnot.

we have to see games at the esport level, between 2 teams coordinating on teamspeak battling out.

if the presentation and camera shots are cool for the viewers, it can be nice.

the game actually requires a lot of skill..
im curious to see 2 super good players dueling.. probably will be a long fight!

GW2 has the potential to become a legit esports platform, the problem is, the window in which it has to do that is RAPIDLY closing. The organized PvP teams left Rift by about the three month mark.

But Rift isn’t that type of game, right? Trion came out and said during beta that their PvP isn’t and never will be an esports-style format. So why compare GW2 and Rift?

Because honestly, GW2 has more in common with Rift than it does games with active esports communities right now.

Granted, GW2’s structured PvP is in a better state at six weeks than Rift was at six weeks, but the features just aren’t there. And despite the address we just received, I suspect the features are ready, and that someone in a suit is holding off their release while he tries to figure out how to profit off of these features.

Ain’t gonna work. GW2 needs all the organizational/community features of League of Legends, for free, and as soon as possible. Otherwise esports isn’t happening here.

It’s not “if you build it they will come”, it’s “if you don’t build it, they will leave”.

Like I said earlier, it took about three months for organized PvP teams to start disappearing from Rift. We’re halfway there.

Cant comment on the Rift situ, but I’ve seen plenty of games where people return. Heck people even return in droves for a paid mmo, just to check out one update.

That plus the game will always have players, so there will always be organized PvP teams. If it takes off and they throw money as prize, more people will return.

I dont think its that much about time frame, I dont see any other third person mmo like this looming on the horizon, but I do think its about quality, you gotta get it right, especially balance wise

basically all we need is features to facilitate team play.
i find everything comes down to shouting in map or guild channel, and my little finger is telling me that it isnt the way it should be.

AlexanderFaust.4518:

@Geff
Perhaps.. but does that really have any weight on the topic?

In league of legends, you have 30 levels.. used to get a player adjusted to the game and balance out “who” you’re fighting (IE: How experienced they are).

Progression in this manner is assisted by IP/Runes/Champ Pool.
In that you’re not overwhelmed with “choices” from the get go and can learn the game at your own pace.

GW2 doesn’t have that.. it’s “all or nothing” zero progression.. and unless you also PvE, you’ll have no attachment to your account what so ever.

At that point, there are also no actual tie-ins from PvE to PvP.. as you said, they’re separate ~ while that’s good for the eSport, it doesn’t do anything for the longevity of the game.

In this instance, GW2 incorporated WvW ~ which IS a tie-in!

This is where you go to fight other people and ofcourse, experience the world, to an extent.

However, WvW is currently suffering from “spam combat” ~ in that your individual skill or that of your “team” is irrelevant to the outcome, as all the other side needs to counter you… are more “aoe’s”.

This means that anyone that likes sPvP wont really bother with WvW and again.. GW2 lose that tie-in.

In otherwords.. sure GW2 is “2 games in one” ~ but can that really be considered a good thing? ~ given how it’s currently handled.

I do think that having 2 games in one is a good thing. There are 2 playerbases in the world of online gaming, those who like PvE (classic mmorpg players) and those who like PvP (LoL, HoN, Dota, BLC, SMITE, FPS players). A lot of people who like PvE don’t like PvP and vice versa. Having 2 separate microcosms that cater to these two separate playerbases is a good thing.

WvW is for PvE’ers who want to do some relaxed PvP non-skill-based PvP with their PvE acquisitions (i.e. people who like unblanced “open-world PvP”).

Infact, I think that the two microcosms should be further separated by not requiring the PvPers even set foot in the world of tyria and allowing them to start their characters directly in the mists. Furthermore, marketing should be targeting the LoL, HoN, Dota, BLC, SMITE, FPS players rather than just the mmorpg players. That being said, I don’t think that sPvP is quite ready for that shift yet because of one thing that it is lacking, a ladder and matchmaking system. I agree that low skilled players should not just get stomped by higher skilled players who have played sPvP for longer and have had more practice. Devs have hinted that they are working on a ladder/matchmaking system.

I disagree on your comments about progression, sPvP does have progression. Rather than progression in the form of stat/skill improvements, you improve your personal skill level and adeptness as you play more. The Additional appearance customization options that you get from lvling up your PvP rank is just icing on the cake. This is reminiscent of the old entirely skill-based BLC, before they ruined it by adding medallions etc. that you acquire over time.

This game is the first game I’ve seen that has incorporated both a hermetic PvP world and a PvE/WvW world within the same client so that people can freely travel between the two. The separation itself is not novel, Warhammer did it with the two seperate games Warhammer: Age of Reckoning (the mmorpg) and Warhammer: Wrath of Heroes (the exclusively PvP game).

imo, as it is now the game is really fun!
pve and pvp and wvw.

but,
the gameplay…
it is a bit messy.
it really is.
visual effect maelstrom, camera position, clipping, no collision between characters etc

it doesnt really disturb me most of the time, but for an esport… that is going to be a big turn off probably.

I say stick to what they have. Make paid tourneys rated and don’t ever implenment the old boring gw1 gvg in gw2.

alcopaul, you produce garments?

Im not a very “competitive” pvp player in the sense that i would ever go to tournaments. I however do enjoy PvP in any kind of game….again…just not to the ultra competitive level.

I think the only way for spvp to take off as a e-sport would be to separate PvP and PvE stats. Thats the very basic….if they cant do that, it will never take off.

I have little faith at this point and I continue to keep my sPvP focused guild parked as I wait for ArenaNet to get their kitten together

Here’s what’s been promised

• Leaderboards

• Observe mode

• Private servers (for pay: focused on making players pay to practice according to what can be inferred from latest blog post)

Here’s what we need

• Leaderboards

• Observe mode

• More modes of play than point-capture

• At least four more official maps (a few of the ones they have now are horrible)

• Map editor

• Ranking (when I join a Tournament with 5 people who’ve never played in a Tournament and have little sPvP experience I shouldn’t face Team Paradigm. As currently implemented there is no rank pairing and these sort of scenarios are happening all the time)

• Private servers (for pay: focused on independent tournament hosting features)

• Private servers (for free:: focused on practice mode)

I don’t think they get it. They made sPvP completely sandboxed from the PvE and WvW sides of the game. There is no reason they can’t treat sPvP in GW2 like any other fun sPvP game. Team Fortress 2 would be a great game to model after in terms of features offered. I was expecting at release GW2 would have most of the sPvP features that TF2 had and even innovate beyond that. Sadly it’s a very, very long way from even
matching TF2

Esports focused game?

I don’t think it’s gonna happen or atleast be as big as they want it to be. Why not? Well I’ll just leave a famous quote from a DICE BF3 community manager.

“At that time, it was”

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Team Fortress 2 would be a great game to model after in terms of features offered. I was expecting at release GW2 would have most of the sPvP features that TF2 had and even innovate beyond that. Sadly it’s a very, very long way from even
matching TF2

Oh man, comparing Anet to Valve isn’t even remotely fair. Valve learned a long time ago that actually giving people what they want works for you and the customer.

Still, valid points all around.

Added new video documentary of League’s raise to fame and season 2 championships ~ http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/deply5/shift-the-league-of-legends-phenomenon

Do they hold competitions for roleplaying and botting..? If not then GW2 has nothing.

League is actually really unbalanced, its Tourney scene is basicly “play whats most op currently, and win” not all the champs are created equal.

As an Avid league player, I can tell you, from a pvp perspective, GW1 was much more balanced, League is a DotA style game, and sadly isnt learning much from it. DotA is still be updated and is much more balanced.

Dice Dragon.4326:

League is actually really unbalanced, its Tourney scene is basicly "play whats most op currently, and win" not all the champs are created equal.

As an Avid league player, I can tell you, from a pvp perspective, GW1 was much more balanced, League is a DotA style game, and sadly isnt learning much from it. DotA is still be updated and is much more balanced.

Ask near any DotA(2) fan and they will tell you that DotA(2) takes more "skill" or is more "pro" than League of Legends.. but so what?

We’re talking about a game that’s casual friendly, is easy to learn and hard to master.

DotA(2) is hard to learn and annoying to master ~ IE: not causal friendly.
Just like HoN ~ and we all know how that worked out.

As the Documentary shows, you need a huge core player base to be successful ~ DotA(2) doesn’t have that yet due to still being in beta, so for now.. it’s apples to oranges.

This topic points to what League has that GW2 could either copy 100% or at least take into consideration when evolving the game for it’s own eSport scene.

What does League offer? ::
1. PvP balance via Profile levels and Elo.
2. Player Progression utilizing the IP/Runes.
3. Potential “challenge” of pwning teh nubs!.. or getting your own face melted.
4. Options in available champion pool, summoner spells and character builds.

Please stay on topic ~ thx

I like sPvP, but I’ve never done paid tournaments yet, only the freebie. I’m not a particularly good player, and it’s not my main focus. But I never feel like I’m getting squashed the way you would in other MMOs before you get the gear.

Being all point-capture games makes it not as much fun IMO, and means you can/should build your character around node capturing (witness the bunker-build, roamer builds, treb-repair-mesmer, and fighting mostly in tight areas). I believe it could be better if they added in capture-the-flag, king of the mountain, protect the item (not sure what the PC term is for these, my group called ’em smear the something that rhymes with smear).

They tried to get variety with one map with water, one map with NPC to kill, one map with a lot of vertical, one map with treb… but they’re all versions of the same thing.

Mostly I fear there’s too much left to finish the game that launched. Still need traits and abilities functioning, then balanced, then maybe you could have a legit competition. There’s a lot left for ANet to do.

After that, really it’s up to the players to eSport it. Gotta make it interesting enough to wanna watch, eh.

AlexanderFaust.4518:

What does League offer? ::
1. PvP balance via Profile levels and Elo.
2. Player Progression utilizing the IP/Runes.
3. Potential “challenge” of pwning teh nubs!.. or getting your own face melted.
4. Options in available champion pool, summoner spells and character builds.

Please stay on topic ~ thx

As someone who has played League since Season 1, and played GW1, AND played dota, Casual =/= good for esport Scene. Dota is an Esport as well you know, And had world championships as well.

1. This system allows for customization, but Elo? Elo is basicly a luckshoot because you can not balance a single player around a number in a TEAM game. This rating is not based on your individual skill, but rather your ability to function with randoms, this is not a good way to base your skill. Dota2 profiling has a list that shows you your skill related to other players of your skill level with the given champion, Example, My “Axe” bar is 5 out of 5 ranking, and ive lost everysingle one of my axe games. But in my games, my indivudual score is high.

For GW2, we have skills since each person is not a set hero, so we dont need profile leveling up and “Masteries”

2. This model is dumb, Several heros in league REQUIRE a decent rune page to have a chance at a good early game, this means unless you farm them, you are at a disadvantage.

“Sports are usually governed by a set of rules or customs, which serve to ensure fair competition” – Wikipedia on sports

If this is the case, how is it a fair setting that creates fair competion if I dont have what everyone else has from the start? This means there is factors based outside of my control.

For Tourneys where you have access to everything, THEN its fair, but in the normal game? if you dont have runes/masteries and face someone who does, you will be a SEVERE disadvantage. This does not create “Fair” competion.

3. GW2 has this lol, any pvp has this tbh.

4. We have traits, skills, weapons and TEAM SET UP, aka if you want X number of X proffession, or want a more deverse line up, etc. But this is where both games are botched, not ALL choices are equal. I can tell you, even in the dota scene where more things are balanced then league, there is still a pool of “elite” heros that are just plain better.

Same with professions, some are just not strong enough right now. But tbh, no competetive game is without this. Fighting games have some fighters better then otehrs, just the way it is.

Either way, im confused at what you want, Do you want GW2 to be league? League is not a good choice to compare GW to, because League is an entirely diffrent game type that mixes RTS elements with fighting game elements etc.

As a matter of fact, id say GW is BETTER at being ready for a pro scence because it does not have things in its pvp that require you to farm previously, I can walk into pvp in this game and be on equal footing gear wise, where as if im a fresh 30 in LoL, I will be unable to contend with people who have more heros then I do and more runes then I do, which means I have a limited choice.

Also, once again, being popular does not really mean that the game is “Ready” or a “good” esport. It just means its popular and people wanna watch.

Lacross is no less balanced then Basket ball, but basket ball is more mainstream and thus is watched more. Does not mean its a better sport.

@Dice
As someone that’s played League since beta, GW2 and DotA(2)
I can say that Casual = Good for eSports scene, due to player base and learning curve.

1. Elo is up for debate.. but the Profile “level up” is for balancing “who vs. who” (in terms of how many matches you’ve played) ~ in that by the time you’re lv30, you’ll have fought nubs all the way to “try hards” in an acceptable order and be ready for most things that come your way ~ whether that’s RANKED or not.

IE: it’s a safeguard to make sure you’re more likely to face people of your own skill level.
#it also makes you feel like you have an investment in your account via time spent to level up.

2. IP/Runes mean that you have to learn to play the game at a disadvantage and improve through trial and error ~ this is further supporting the motivation to keep playing so the game gets easier (saving up to buy proper rune pages) it also makes you feel like you have an investment in your account (more likely you’ll stay).

3. True ~ you don’t know if you’re gonna have an easy match or a hard match.. you may even think that every game offers this ~ fact is, if the rest of the game doesn’t work well, and you’re pub stomping 99% of the people you face or are getting your own face melted 99% of the time, then you’ll lose interest. (this is facilitated by your game working ).

4. League has over 100 champions that can each be built as a tank, healer, dps.. they also have innate abilities to carry games based on building your team around one champ or going as a “comp” via poke, initiate or turtle.

Meanwhile, Guild Wars 2 is limited to maybe 2-3 viable builds per class.

I don’t have a solution to this and is why this topic was created ~ to point to League and reference mechanics that could help GW2 improve it’s eSports scene.

This could be as simple as making a MOBA mode, or a Hunger Royal match type or any other number of things.. but at the end of the day, if we don’t at least offer our 2 cents, then we’ll end up with more stale gameplay mechs than we already have.

the game already getting a horrible reputation worldwide as botwars 2, theres no way this goes much anywhere as an E-Sport until they clean up the other aspects of the game IE BOTTING

@Zelot
More and more I’m seeing GW2 fade for the worst.. but for now, I’ll remain optimistic about it’s future and ignore some of their more recent “problems” / bad design choices.

Nyaochan.1756:

We really don’t need to turn yet another game in to an kitten stroking competition…seriously. Go play the aforementioned LoL if that’s what you want. GW is not that game.

read the post, the very developpers of this game stated this as their intention.
go tell them they are wrong, not the OP.

The main reason why they are somewhat backing of from that claim, is that they aren’t ready, not because they don’t want it anymore.

This game rode into town on a gold lined hype wagon meticulously purchased by anet’s marketing team. Expectations were high and promises abound, and while player’s initial feelings of the game were enthusiastic, many of them switched their tune as the game began to lose its luster and the cracks began to show. The streamers fell back to their old games. The forum chatter faded and exuberance was replaced by disappointment as many mmo players realized that they were hoodwinked one more time.

Short answer : no.

Visual effects are way too messy in gw2. Spectators couldn’t understand the information.