Blood & Merlot [Wine]
Solution to all the Zerk hating peeps
1 2
It’s people running Zerk-only parties that are the ones alienating people, not the other way round.
It is to be noted, however, that not all speedrunners are actual jerks. But they do by now have an horrible reputation by some very vocal bully players; which is further worsened by newer players that “want to belong” and emulate the gear, the bad attitude (which not all speedrunners have), but without the skill of the really good players. Really, there would be less “zerk hate” if they toned down their ego and talking down to people-the gear itself is particularly fine, and there’s no inherent evil in speedrunning and/or being efficient.
It’s people running Zerk-only parties that are the ones alienating people, not the other way round.
This isn’t true.
I see more posts on here saying “I don’t allow zerkers in my party! That makes me cool and hip right?” Than I see rude things like “if you don’t zerk you suck!”
There are rude people on each side of the fence. I see more rude statements coming from your side of the fence because they represent the extremists on that side and they shine brighter on my screen for that reason. The people you’re talking about likely do the same. But regardless.
as someone earlier said. The problem isn’t the gear. It’s the people who berate and bully others. They happen to be both berserkers and non berserkers. From what I see, in game there is a lot more berserker hate in map chat (probably because they’re more vocal… I’m sure there’s an equal amount of both). On the forum it’s about equal.
[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
We have a horrible reputation because months ago, we fought back.
Instead, we now just upload video resources, written guides and try to help people. Nevertheless, we still get “elitist” bile thrown at us because, well we need something to complain about so let’s use efficient players as a boogeyman.
What you see on the LFG aren’t actual speed runners, speed running and “fast pug runs” are two different things entirely.
Serah Mahariel – Death and Taxes
Those are just the roles popularized by WoW. The actual concept of “role” can be pretty diverse, to a point where Zerker can be a role – it’s a defined role within GW2. The definition of a role doesn’t have to stick with the WoW schematic – especially not as more and more popular games change the face of the MMORPG genre.
Although I wouldn’t say Zerker is justified as a role. I mean…I play the same way whether I’m using Zerker, Knight’s or Soldier’s gear. It just depends on how much Toughness and Health I want to add to my character.
That’s getting into semantics though.
Those roles were created by anet so how exactly were they popularized by wow?
What?
Sorry, what I mean to say is:
What?
DPS, Support, Control, Healing, Tanking etc. was all vastly popularized by WoW with their hard trinity. The rigidness of the concept was practically created by World of Warcraft. In GW2 you’ve got a much more integral hybrid system where roles have been redefined since the usual roles that we see in MMOs are integrated through all classes. You’ve got a little bit everything in everyone which redefines the concept of roles in GW2.
I’m not about to try to break down the game mechanics enough to say what the new definition of roles in GW2 is but it’s not just taking some of the older, popularized roles from previous MMOs and highlighting them.
There are many different kinds of roles: Buffer/Debuffer/Bunker/AoE/DoT/Trap/Lock/Disabler/Scout/DPS/Support. GW2 saw that most people didn’t like fitting themselves into a single niche so instead they just created an entirely new concept of roles in their game that kind of molds all of these together and throws out stuff that wouldn’t work so well.
(edited by Cuddy.6247)
Well, the whole problem right now is that mobs don’t possess variety in their skills, stats or AI.
Majority mobs are “zerker feed”, or more precisely “Kill with any possible build”.
Some exceptions that exist, but they only appear during world boss events: Partially Digested Husk, Tequatl and Claw of Jormag. Support and condition builds are required…
Though these 3 are pretty much immune to Control right now.
I’m a casual PvE adventurer, I enjoy combat, adventure and helping, but not farming.
I rarely do PvP or Hard PvE, unless it’s organized.
I rarely do PvP or Hard PvE, unless it’s organized.
In terms of gear, there is only 1 viable role. We don’t have gear for support (not heal) or control.
The elephant in ANet’s room is lack of communication. It looks like gear was designed in room A while traits and skills in room B. Gear fits the trinity perfect while the trait and skills does not (and game).
Is not players hating zerk but its a repressed hate to the game for such flaw in their design. Content could also help and be less carebear with zerk players. Currently the game is easy as hell with a party of full zerks.
I would say that the gear was made to cater all those who enjoy trinity gameplay but with no afterthought how would that affect entire game.
Agreed on the last point with the small addendum that game is easy as hell for every gear type. It’s just easy.
That’s what you get when you remove trinity and brain wash people to think having roles is extremely horrible.
And yet I showed you three videos demonstrating that damage per second isn’t the only role and you completely dismissed them. Do I need to link more videos and explain in every single one of them the control and support aspects present?
Yes. Please link me more videos of might stacking zerkers using reflects and dodging to “prove” to me that there are other roles in this game.
Reflects are support, might stacking is support. Protection from hammer guards in FOTM is support. Dropping stability against bosses that can ragdoll you is support.
So now that we’ve got that out the way – my original point is that control exists in this game.
The difference is, you don’t have a buffbot, you don’t have a control bot, you don’t have a healer. You don’t have players who are just dedicated 100% to one thing and suck at doing anything else – you’re expected to pull your weight in all three departments.
“Just DPS” is what you do in bad groups. They don’t support each other effectively (or at all). They don’t control bosses. They just smash keys and hope everything dies. If you want to play the game to a good standard however, support and control are integral parts of boss fights.
He only sees what he wants to see. He wants to see " OP zerkers" so that’s what he’ll see in any video.
Sad but true.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
The problem is not Zerk haters hating Zerkers. The problem lies in the difference between the playstyles of the two factions.
1)Zerkers (for the large majority) view the game in a way where they are looking to beat it as fast as possible to get to the rewards. The loss of 1 or 2 minutes of time is less than the most efficient completion time of the stated goal to accept the rewards. This type of player is bent on domination of the game for maximum rewards as fast as possible.
2) Non zerker players are more interested in playing the game to play, experiment with different classes and builds that may not be as efficient or fast as zerkers, but result in a win just the same. I feel this is a more skilled and intelligent way to play, as there are more obstacles and harder gameplay, as you are not able to burn down the enemy before they are able to challenge you with their abilities.
When the zerkers stop discriminating against the non zerker for wanting to play differently, even if it does slow down the zerkers speed run design, there will be a head on collision in playstyle thinking.
Let the zerkers play their brand of gaming. I will play my style of gaming, one that takes in all the beautiful graphics, NPC interaction, enemy tactics mitigation through skilled build, skill, and combat maneuvers, and I will enjoy it.
No zerker can take the enjoyment I have in taking down a dungeon boss solo, while they lie dead on the ground telling me that my build/gear/armor is inferior. Ever.
Only one boon is affected by healing power so how exactly does it make clerics support?
And here we see the basic perversity laid bare that this game is so lacking in risk/danger that cannot be completely negated by dodging that the only question being asked of “support” is “How can you help me DPS HARDER?”
I tend to see handing out stacks of might as part of the DPS role, myself…
“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
The problem is not Zerk haters hating Zerkers. The problem lies in the difference between the playstyles of the two factions.
1)Zerkers (for the large majority) view the game in a way where they are looking to beat it as fast as possible to get to the rewards. The loss of 1 or 2 minutes of time is less than the most efficient completion time of the stated goal to accept the rewards. This type of player is bent on domination of the game for maximum rewards as fast as possible.
2) Non zerker players are more interested in playing the game to play, experiment with different classes and builds that may not be as efficient or fast as zerkers, but result in a win just the same. I feel this is a more skilled and intelligent way to play, as there are more obstacles and harder gameplay, as you are not able to burn down the enemy before they are able to challenge you with their abilities.
When the zerkers stop discriminating against the non zerker for wanting to play differently, even if it does slow down the zerkers speed run design, there will be a head on collision in playstyle thinking.
Let the zerkers play their brand of gaming. I will play my style of gaming, one that takes in all the beautiful graphics, NPC interaction, enemy tactics mitigation through skilled build, skill, and combat maneuvers, and I will enjoy it.
No zerker can take the enjoyment I have in taking down a dungeon boss solo, while they lie dead on the ground telling me that my build/gear/armor is inferior. Ever.
No offense but what I read was “this is in my opinion the more intelligent way to play because it’s how I play.”
It’s also not 1 or 2 minutes different. It can mean the difference of 2 hours if you’re attempting the more difficult content (fractals, some arah paths I’ve encountered). For me… I can play at most 40 minutes per day. Do I run 2 TA paths or 1? That’s the choice. Berserker or not berserker. More or less dungeons. Hm.
[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
More or less dungeons. Hm.
And my beef with GW2 comes to light: I don’t even care anymore if I run half a dungeon or 5 dungeons in a day. After 20 months I’m so bored with the same crap I’ll do whatever I do and to hell with the rest.
More or less dungeons. Hm.
And my beef with GW2 comes to light: I don’t even care anymore if I run half a dungeon or 5 dungeons in a day. After 20 months I’m so bored with the same crap I’ll do whatever I do and to hell with the rest.
I’m sorry I prefer to get a little gold so I can save it for fun rewards. If I’m not getting anything or progressing my character I have no interest in doing it. Progression is important to me in all parts of my life including my fun.
[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
The problem is not Zerk haters hating Zerkers. The problem lies in the difference between the playstyles of the two factions.
1)Zerkers (for the large majority) view the game in a way where they are looking to beat it as fast as possible to get to the rewards. The loss of 1 or 2 minutes of time is less than the most efficient completion time of the stated goal to accept the rewards. This type of player is bent on domination of the game for maximum rewards as fast as possible.
2) Non zerker players are more interested in playing the game to play, experiment with different classes and builds that may not be as efficient or fast as zerkers, but result in a win just the same. I feel this is a more skilled and intelligent way to play, as there are more obstacles and harder gameplay, as you are not able to burn down the enemy before they are able to challenge you with their abilities.
When the zerkers stop discriminating against the non zerker for wanting to play differently, even if it does slow down the zerkers speed run design, there will be a head on collision in playstyle thinking.
Let the zerkers play their brand of gaming. I will play my style of gaming, one that takes in all the beautiful graphics, NPC interaction, enemy tactics mitigation through skilled build, skill, and combat maneuvers, and I will enjoy it.
No zerker can take the enjoyment I have in taking down a dungeon boss solo, while they lie dead on the ground telling me that my build/gear/armor is inferior. Ever.No offense but what I read was “this is in my opinion the more intelligent way to play because it’s how I play.”
It’s also not 1 or 2 minutes different. It can mean the difference of 2 hours if you’re attempting the more difficult content (fractals, some arah paths I’ve encountered). For me… I can play at most 40 minutes per day. Do I run 2 TA paths or 1? That’s the choice. Berserker or not berserker. More or less dungeons. Hm.
It is my opinion, that I play the way I play, because I like it that way. If you are limited in your play time and need to zerk your way to rewards, that is fine with me. That is the intelligent choice in your situation. I have been gaming since pencil and paper games debuted in the early 70’s, and the immersion is key for my enjoyment.
Without trying to be condescending, I find that most younger gamers have a desire to speed beat every game they play, and this zerker bias/zerker bashing debate is a direct result of the two types of gameplay. I like the way I play and enjoy the challenge of using a seemingly worse class/weapon/build to beat an enemy. The challenge is the game to me.
The problem is not Zerk haters hating Zerkers. The problem lies in the difference between the playstyles of the two factions.
1)Zerkers (for the large majority) view the game in a way where they are looking to beat it as fast as possible to get to the rewards. The loss of 1 or 2 minutes of time is less than the most efficient completion time of the stated goal to accept the rewards. This type of player is bent on domination of the game for maximum rewards as fast as possible.
2) Non zerker players are more interested in playing the game to play, experiment with different classes and builds that may not be as efficient or fast as zerkers, but result in a win just the same. I feel this is a more skilled and intelligent way to play, as there are more obstacles and harder gameplay, as you are not able to burn down the enemy before they are able to challenge you with their abilities.
When the zerkers stop discriminating against the non zerker for wanting to play differently, even if it does slow down the zerkers speed run design, there will be a head on collision in playstyle thinking.
Let the zerkers play their brand of gaming. I will play my style of gaming, one that takes in all the beautiful graphics, NPC interaction, enemy tactics mitigation through skilled build, skill, and combat maneuvers, and I will enjoy it.
No zerker can take the enjoyment I have in taking down a dungeon boss solo, while they lie dead on the ground telling me that my build/gear/armor is inferior. Ever.No offense but what I read was “this is in my opinion the more intelligent way to play because it’s how I play.”
It’s also not 1 or 2 minutes different. It can mean the difference of 2 hours if you’re attempting the more difficult content (fractals, some arah paths I’ve encountered). For me… I can play at most 40 minutes per day. Do I run 2 TA paths or 1? That’s the choice. Berserker or not berserker. More or less dungeons. Hm.
It is my opinion, that I play the way I play, because I like it that way. If you are limited in your play time and need to zerk your way to rewards, that is fine with me. That is the intelligent choice in your situation. I have been gaming since pencil and paper games debuted in the early 70’s, and the immersion is key for my enjoyment.
Without trying to be condescending, I find that most younger gamers have a desire to speed beat every game they play, and this zerker bias/zerker bashing debate is a direct result of the two types of gameplay. I like the way I play and enjoy the challenge of using a seemingly worse class/weapon/build to beat an enemy. The challenge is the game to me.
You’re trying to out mature me. Cute.
I’m a role player for many years, pencil and paper. I also role play in game. It’s the intelligent choice to play efficiently but it’s also the fun choice. I find it fun not wiping. I find it fun demolishing critters in dungeons. I find it challenging to properly time dodges and to use skills when they’re needed to support my group. The beauty of the game was that before I could do these things my soldier gear acted as my training wheels.
No berserker is going to tell you you can’t play how you want. The issue is when we ask for berserkers, we get people trying to impose their way of play on our runs. They also keep posting these threads to try and stop us from playing how we want. We don’t post similar threads. That’s a problem.
[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
(edited by Lilith Ajit.6173)
Only one boon is affected by healing power so how exactly does it make clerics support?
And here we see the basic perversity laid bare that this game is so lacking in risk/danger that cannot be completely negated by dodging that the only question being asked of “support” is “How can you help me DPS HARDER?”
I tend to see handing out stacks of might as part of the DPS role, myself…
tank holds aggro
healer heals tank/dps, gives buffs
dps’ers dps
tank and healer are designed to help the dps do more dps
I guess the tank and healer are part of the dps role.
Serah Mahariel – Death and Taxes
And here we see the basic perversity laid bare that this game is so lacking in risk/danger that cannot be completely negated by dodging that the only question being asked of “support” is “How can you help me DPS HARDER?”
I tend to see handing out stacks of might as part of the DPS role, myself…
Oh, so boons like protection and vigour increase dps but regeneration supports others.
(edited by haviz.1340)
The problem is not Zerk haters hating Zerkers. The problem lies in the difference between the playstyles of the two factions.
1)Zerkers (for the large majority) view the game in a way where they are looking to beat it as fast as possible to get to the rewards. The loss of 1 or 2 minutes of time is less than the most efficient completion time of the stated goal to accept the rewards. This type of player is bent on domination of the game for maximum rewards as fast as possible.
2) Non zerker players are more interested in playing the game to play, experiment with different classes and builds that may not be as efficient or fast as zerkers, but result in a win just the same. I feel this is a more skilled and intelligent way to play, as there are more obstacles and harder gameplay, as you are not able to burn down the enemy before they are able to challenge you with their abilities.
When the zerkers stop discriminating against the non zerker for wanting to play differently, even if it does slow down the zerkers speed run design, there will be a head on collision in playstyle thinking.
Let the zerkers play their brand of gaming. I will play my style of gaming, one that takes in all the beautiful graphics, NPC interaction, enemy tactics mitigation through skilled build, skill, and combat maneuvers, and I will enjoy it.
No zerker can take the enjoyment I have in taking down a dungeon boss solo, while they lie dead on the ground telling me that my build/gear/armor is inferior. Ever.No offense but what I read was “this is in my opinion the more intelligent way to play because it’s how I play.”
It’s also not 1 or 2 minutes different. It can mean the difference of 2 hours if you’re attempting the more difficult content (fractals, some arah paths I’ve encountered). For me… I can play at most 40 minutes per day. Do I run 2 TA paths or 1? That’s the choice. Berserker or not berserker. More or less dungeons. Hm.
It is my opinion, that I play the way I play, because I like it that way. If you are limited in your play time and need to zerk your way to rewards, that is fine with me. That is the intelligent choice in your situation. I have been gaming since pencil and paper games debuted in the early 70’s, and the immersion is key for my enjoyment.
Without trying to be condescending, I find that most younger gamers have a desire to speed beat every game they play, and this zerker bias/zerker bashing debate is a direct result of the two types of gameplay. I like the way I play and enjoy the challenge of using a seemingly worse class/weapon/build to beat an enemy. The challenge is the game to me.You’re trying to out mature me. Cute.
I’m a role player for many years, pencil and paper. I also role play in game. I’m a wife and a home owner and an engineer. It’s the intelligent choice to play efficiently but it’s also the fun choice. I find it fun not wiping. I find it fun demolishing critters in dungeons. I find it challenging to properly time dodges and to use skills when they’re needed to support my group. The beauty of the game was that before I could do these things my soldier gear acted as my training wheels.
No berserker is going to tell you you can’t play how you want. The issue is when we ask for berserkers, we get people trying to impose their way of play on our runs. They also keep posting these threads to try and stop us from playing how we want. We don’t post similar threads. That’s a problem.
My train of thought is not an attack on your maturity.
I find it more challenging and enjoyable to try to kill an enemy with a hobble on myself, rather than demolish them instantly, although on a bad day I will zerk and demolish them to vent frustration, I do find that enjoyable too to be honest.
The back and forth between zerkers is like the current Dem vs Repub battle of two extreme points of view. Until, as in real life, the two sides learn to compromise, there will never be a common ground where all can live together and enjoy the game. That is the real immersion breaker for me.
I’ll have to agree on that one. It’s usually the anti-zerker crowd that makes these kind of posts every single day of the week. Most of them are filled with uneducated claims that stir up drama instead of promoting a constructive debate.
In the end, the best way to enjoy the game is to group up with like minded players just like it happens in real life. If a zerker player joins your party and tries to impose his/her playstile, just kick them and move on. Zerker parties also get their fair share of non-zerkers with crappy builds expecting to be carried, in addition to all this boring and repetitive posts in the forum.
Finally, this guy below nailed it:
Not a good idea. As soon as developers create a need for any specific build, then that puts the nail in the coffin of all those groups where people bring what they want.
The real solution is for people to give up on the idea that it’s their right to have access to every group, with the convenience of the LFG tool. Exclusion is and always will be a people issue, so it cannot be solved with a gameplay solution. Gameplay solutions will only transfer the specifics of the exclusion.
(edited by anabasis.7346)
Not a good idea. As soon as developers create a need for any specific build, then that puts the nail in the coffin of all those groups where people bring what they want.
Not sure if serious…………………………
How is “bring zerker or gtfo” bringing what you want ?
Just because it is convenient for young kids not to have creativity needed
doesn’t mean other people are not allowed to have fun.And thank goodness A-Net figured out.
Keep the zerkers out of the game is like a relief.
Zerker can stay in PvP or WvW. I couldn’t care less because people can’t be kicked out.
But finally we descent people who just want an awesome time with epic storys and actually roles in a roleplay game get what we well deserve.
Beside that i guess i don’t have to mention who of the comunity would be able to spend money at the gem store. Daddys wallet isn’t always available.
You’re mistaking ease of access via LFG PuGging for requirements. Zerker is not required by the game, only by a subset of the players. I see a lot of LFG listings for “all welcome” that fill immediately. Every guild run I’ve ever been in has been “bring what you want.”
Make a “healer,” “tank,” “buff-bot,” etc. required — which is what was suggested by the OP — and what happens to all those groups? They become “Need 1 tank, healer, etc.” groups just like the meta groups will be. This limits all those “anything goes” groups as well as PuG meta or real meta groups.
By creating content that requires certain builds, ANet would kill ease of access for all those non-meta groups. No more “two ‘DPS’ bearbows, juggernaut engineer, condition mesmer and celestial Ele” groups. They won’t have the builds that are now required by game design. These groups are currently able to do dungeons — and so are a myriad of other non-optimal, but still viable, build combinations.
I see from your post that you want dedicated roles in groups. Ask for dedicated roles all you like. However, don’t delude yourself into thinking that you’re championing the people who want to play as they like, because you’re not.
Not a good idea. As soon as developers create a need for any specific build, then that puts the nail in the coffin of all those groups where people bring what they want.
Not sure if serious…………………………
How is “bring zerker or gtfo” bringing what you want ?
Just because it is convenient for young kids not to have creativity needed
doesn’t mean other people are not allowed to have fun.And thank goodness A-Net figured out.
Keep the zerkers out of the game is like a relief.
Zerker can stay in PvP or WvW. I couldn’t care less because people can’t be kicked out.
But finally we descent people who just want an awesome time with epic storys and actually roles in a roleplay game get what we well deserve.
Beside that i guess i don’t have to mention who of the comunity would be able to spend money at the gem store. Daddys wallet isn’t always available.You’re mistaking ease of access via LFG PuGging for requirements. Zerker is not required by the game, only by a subset of the players. I see a lot of LFG listings for “all welcome” that fill immediately. Every guild run I’ve ever been in has been “bring what you want.”
Make a “healer,” “tank,” “buff-bot,” etc. required — which is what was suggested by the OP — and what happens to all those groups? They become “Need 1 tank, healer, etc.” groups just like the meta groups will be. This limits all those “anything goes” groups as well as PuG meta or real meta groups.
By creating content that requires certain builds, ANet would kill ease of access for all those non-meta groups. No more “two ‘DPS’ bearbows, juggernaut engineer, condition mesmer and celestial Ele” groups. They won’t have the builds that are now required by game design. These groups are currently able to do dungeons — and so are a myriad of other non-optimal, but still viable, build combinations.
I see from your post that you want dedicated roles in groups. Ask for dedicated roles all you like. However, don’t delude yourself into thinking that you’re championing the people who want to play as they like, because you’re not.
Unbelievably true and eloquently stated. Thank you. Refreshing read.
[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
Zerker parties also get their fair share of non-zerkers with crappy builds expecting to be carried, in addition to all this boring and repetitive posts in the forum.
Not all nonzerker builds are crappy, they are just not the extreme in efficiency. Not all nonzerkers need to be carried. I have carried 4 zerkers in a dungeon while running a non zerker build. As an arbiter, it was amusing to listen to the dead zerkers berate me because I was using non zerker gear. Utterly immature argument in my opinion. They were more efficient thasn me, but they were dead and I was not. I killed the Boss alone as they lay dead at his feet.
Try not to be so fixated on your build/playstyle being the end all of everything. There are other ways of doing things even if they are not as efficient as yours. There is nothing wrong with that. The attitude of both sides of the coin is a battle that will not end until both decide to relent that their style of play is not the best way to play for everybody, because; to each his own, we all play like we want.
And here we see the basic perversity laid bare that this game is so lacking in risk/danger that cannot be completely negated by dodging that the only question being asked of “support” is “How can you help me DPS HARDER?”
I tend to see handing out stacks of might as part of the DPS role, myself…
Oh, so boons like protection and vigour increase dps but regeneration supports others.
Yes, Protection and Aegis are defensive and handing them out contributes to the team’s ability to absorb mistakes. I’m not sure where to put vigor since dodging everything is pretty much a universal requirement – it’s the game’s core demand held above any “role” really. The point made earlier is that those boons don’t scale with any stat, which makes it impossible to gear for them – and if you can’t gear for them we’re back to zerker uber alles. For those boons that do scale, your options are…
“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
“we decided to remove Monk. We saw a lot of players LF monk…LF monk..this looked like players waiting to have fun, but not having fun…”
See what I did there?..making dungeosn that now requires non zerker set up= LF monk, LF monk,.LF non zerker..LF non zerker..
Defies the whole point of removing monk in the first place.
Yeah, well Anet’s intention was to remove the trinity by making a multitude of builds viable. Instead of having the game restricted to 3 roles, they wanted many many roles. But what did we end up with? One role. Zerker.
Zerker is not a role. Zerker is a gear setup. And all it does is put Damage output above Hit-Taking. There still needs to be boon-gifting(Essentially Statless – Boon Duration can’t come from gear. The 1% given from each piece of GIver gear isn’t worth the effort), debuff-applying (The damage is trivial, but the riders can be great), comb-field creation(Statless), mob control (Which only maybe needs Condition Duration, which isn’t a Gear stat, but comes from Sigils, Runes, or Traits), and leadership.
While Armor+Weapons may have limited variance in prefixes seen, weapon loadouts, utility selection, and trait selection are all incredibly diverse in PvE.
There are still support and control roles needed, with Damage not being so much a corner of the new trinity as the baseline.
(edited by Sartharina.3542)
I had an illustrative experience about this over the weekend…
We were running AC, and this one guy downed like 3 times then said “the zerk keeps dying alone…”
there IS a role for non-zerker. keeping the team going when the zerkers die. as a zerker-only player, you don’t see that, because whenever you die, your teammates are soon to follow and it’s just a wipe. throw a few non-zerkers in there, and you’d realize that you die half way through the fight.
I killed an ele in EB yesterday… I was so shocked how quickly they died that I literally ran past their body.
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I had an illustrative experience about this over the weekend…
We were running AC, and this one guy downed like 3 times then said “the zerk keeps dying alone…”
there IS a role for non-zerker. keeping the team going when the zerkers die. as a zerker-only player, you don’t see that, because whenever you die, your teammates are soon to follow and it’s just a wipe. throw a few non-zerkers in there, and you’d realize that you die half way through the fight.
I killed an ele in EB yesterday… I was so shocked how quickly they died that I literally ran past their body.
1. He was either a bad zerker, and/or you were terrible party members. Full zerker parties support each other and don’t let themselves or each other get killed.
2. Killing an Ele in PvP isn’t anything to be shocked by. Even in full PVT gear, they still crumple like tissue. Also, Zerker gear isn’t as effective in WvW or PvP because the active defenses can be countered and mitigated by superior Player Intelligence, such as by feinting the active defenses and bursting when they go down. Or whacking with walls of conditions.
Yes, Protection and Aegis are defensive and handing them out contributes to the team’s ability to absorb mistakes. I’m not sure where to put vigor since dodging everything is pretty much a universal requirement – it’s the game’s core demand held above any “role” really. The point made earlier is that those boons don’t scale with any stat, which makes it impossible to gear for them – and if you can’t gear for them we’re back to zerker uber alles. For those boons that do scale, your options are…
The ultimate objective in pve is to kill your enemy. Every support in every game like this one has one objective and it’s to make it easier. Even in trinity games, you have a healer so you can dps your enemy.
Maybe anet should change this objective to something like conquest? That way you’ll have bunkers, roamers, team support, etc. Hold objectives instead of killing your enemy.
There are more than just the 2 camps (Zerk, Non-Zerk) here…..there are also the Lazy players, Unskilled (possibly just ignorant) players and higher skilled players among both those camps…..
I do agree this issue is more about WHY you are playing and how much time you have to devote to playing. As the game stands, Zerker is just more efficient at reaching the goal but may not be challenging or fun for some players. I’ve seen discrimination in both directions (tho the non-Zerker one is almost always pure spite and unreasonable).
We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
If we go to the roots, yes; fighting in MMO is all about dealing and receiving (or not) damage. From my point of view (being playing MMOs since 1997, I’m 32 years old now) what MMOs try to do is add as more variables as possible to make it more complex and add more variety and strategy assuming this will also increase the fun factor.
GW2 had a very good idea but it was resolved poorly. We have a very basic and plain system, where only damage applied matters since damage recieved can be nullified by its mechanic. They added A LOT of variables (in terms of buffs, debuffs, combos, gear sets, etc) that in the end are not necessary; where necessary means that they are not required to complete the content, just makes it faster or slower in a game where time is not really a variable (unless you speculate with how many hours you intend to play).
IMHO, we need more depth in the combat. Just hitting and dodging doesn’t seem to be enough for an MMO. Its OK and fun for other games like Assassins Creed or GTA but its not enough for an MMO. Again this is my opinion.
Zerk is the average Joe build. Don’t pat yourself in the back too hard.
Is not players hating zerk but its a repressed hate to the game for such flaw in their design. Content could also help and be less carebear with zerk players. Currently the game is easy as hell with a party of full zerks.
+1
I don’t hate “zerkers”. Its the game design itself that I take issue with, not the people that have fallen into it with little choice.
Semantics.
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The problem is not Zerk haters hating Zerkers. The problem lies in the difference between the playstyles of the two factions.
1)Zerkers (for the large majority) view the game in a way where they are looking to beat it as fast as possible to get to the rewards. The loss of 1 or 2 minutes of time is less than the most efficient completion time of the stated goal to accept the rewards. This type of player is bent on domination of the game for maximum rewards as fast as possible.
2) Non zerker players are more interested in playing the game to play, experiment with different classes and builds that may not be as efficient or fast as zerkers, but result in a win just the same. I feel this is a more skilled and intelligent way to play, as there are more obstacles and harder gameplay, as you are not able to burn down the enemy before they are able to challenge you with their abilities.
When the zerkers stop discriminating against the non zerker for wanting to play differently, even if it does slow down the zerkers speed run design, there will be a head on collision in playstyle thinking.
Let the zerkers play their brand of gaming. I will play my style of gaming, one that takes in all the beautiful graphics, NPC interaction, enemy tactics mitigation through skilled build, skill, and combat maneuvers, and I will enjoy it.
No zerker can take the enjoyment I have in taking down a dungeon boss solo, while they lie dead on the ground telling me that my build/gear/armor is inferior. Ever.
I couldn’t say it better +10
Lilith Ajit.6173:
No offense but what I read was “this is in my opinion the more intelligent way to play because it’s how I play.”
It’s also not 1 or 2 minutes different. It can mean the difference of 2 hours if you’re attempting the more difficult content (fractals, some arah paths I’ve encountered). For me… I can play at most 40 minutes per day. Do I run 2 TA paths or 1? That’s the choice. Berserker or not berserker. More or less dungeons. Hm.[/quote]
Is extremely hard for 1 person to say to another person ( you are playing the wrong game) but if you only have 40min a day to play a MMO-RPG then you are PLAYING THE WRONG GAME.
mmo-rpg is not just any game , you can call it a hobby , is something you dedicate time to it. spending 40 min on a mmo-rpg is equal to 5min you cant do much under 40min . this kind of game requires no less then 2hrs of play time and doesn’t have to be every day but when you do long in,anything less then 2hr wont get you far, so if you feel need to rush things then you should start looking for a game that meets your play time
(edited by Drakent.9605)
Lilith Ajit.6173:
No offense but what I read was “this is in my opinion the more intelligent way to play because it’s how I play.”It’s also not 1 or 2 minutes different. It can mean the difference of 2 hours if you’re attempting the more difficult content (fractals, some arah paths I’ve encountered). For me… I can play at most 40 minutes per day. Do I run 2 TA paths or 1? That’s the choice. Berserker or not berserker. More or less dungeons. Hm.
Is extremely hard for 1 person to say to another person ( you are playing the wrong game) but if you only have 40min a day to play a MMO-RPG then you are PLAYING THE WRONG GAME.
mmo-rpg is not just any game , you can call it a hobby , is something you dedicate time to it. spending 40 min on a mmo-rpg is equal to 5min you cant do much under 40min . this kind of game requires no less then 2hrs of play time and doesn’t have to be every day but when you do long in,anything less then 2hr wont get you far, so if you feel need to rush things then you should start looking for a game that meets your play time
[/quote]
Look. When I was unemployed I played it 80 hours a week. Or something. Lots. I like the game and won’t quit because you don’t think I can devote enough time to it. Please don’t tell me my favorite game isn’t for me
[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
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