Guild Wars 2

Some of the growing pains this game is experiencing (A large portion I would say) stem from the decision to make the majority of the game world gated by character levels.

That is, by asking players to progress through 80 levels to reach “end game,” Developers were forced to dedicate almost the entire game world to the the levels from 1-80, rather than making the majority of the world dedicated to max level players. Which resulted in the rather predicable complaint that there’s nothing to do at max level, yadda yadda yadda, even though in most cases players hadn’t consumed even a portion of the overall content in the game.

So now we get these efforts to herd players back into lower level zones through various sticks and carrots, and all of the issues that come with that design (dilemma over what loot should drop for a high level player in a low level zone, resentment at being “pushed out” of higher level zones by design, etc).

These issues would not exist if the game had a basic design much closer to guild wars 1, where you reached max level (20) very quickly, and then the majority of your character progression was essentially hunting for upgrades in a wide variety of equally leveled zones and/or unlocking new areas by progressing through core story zones.

The reason I bring it up is not to cry over spilled milk, but because I wonder whether ANET has really learned their lesson. There’s been some talk in the past that future expansions/paid content might involve an increase in character levels, which would again create the sorts of issues we’re seeing now, with more zones dedicated to intermediate leveling, and not for max level characters, a greater spread between max and min level characters, and more clutter in terms of level specific item drops that just replace the previous tier.

I’m curious if ANET devs have given any clues that they understand that having an expanded level cap is a core problem with the design of the game, and whether they would avoid or repeat that in the future.

They created GW2 as an mmo(unlike GW1) with more levels and loot expansion in mind. I don’t see why they would ever go backwards when they have stated that they were very limited in what they could do in the first one. I don’t see having an expanded level cap as a core problem at all. All mmos have problems throughout there whole lifespan.

Reaver.9256:

They created GW2 as an mmo(unlike GW1) with more levels and loot expansion in mind. I don’t see why they would ever go backwards when they have stated that they were very limited in what they could do in the first one. I don’t see having an expanded level cap as a core problem at all. All mmos have problems throughout there whole lifespan.

None of which addresses what I am talking about.

They’re clearly not going to go backwards and undo the existence of having 80 levels, so that’s a decision they’re simply going to have to work around and make the best they can of.

However, that sort of thinking (more levels = better) or even worse (More levels = proper MMO) is deficient, and I hope it’s something they’ve figured out by now.

The fact that certain ideas have become a convention in the MMO world doesn’t mean those are good ideas, and it’s lazy to use those ideas without having a clear reason why.

There’s a clear reason to have some levels in a game— to prevent new players from being overwhelmed by having every feature or difficult content dumped on their heads immediately after entering the game.

The model of dedicating most of the game world to leveling though is very inefficient and results in a mostly dead/empty world. This isn’t something which started with GW2 and it’s sad that they thought their world would be somehow immune to it.

Look at where virtually all of the development energy is right now: providing incentives (carrots and sticks) for players to actually go out into the majority of the world, even though the majority of the world was designed not to be experienced at max level.

How much of that energy could be going towards providing new and interesting systems of advancement or new places to explore, or simply tuning those areas better, if the design from day one had been for 25% of the world as leveling/learning areas and 75% had been for max level play?

Again though, I know the existing world can’t be changed. What concerns me is whether or not ANET has learned from this experience, or whether they will repeat it in the future, and (related) whether they’re going to fall into the same traps that other level gated games fall into, needing to reset gear and create new treadmills to facilitate a level cap increase.

They will be releasing more levels and more gear to go with those levels. Does that answer your question?

Reaver.9256:

They will be releasing more levels and more gear to go with those levels. Does that answer your question?

I don’t really want to spend the next year grinding out tier gear. It really looks like this is as bad as everyone thought it would be when they announced Ascended gear.

I just want to do what I want to do, and not have to worry about gear. If I want to grind gear, there are much better games out there for that.

I dunno what’s going on at ArenaNet, but this is just getting worse and worse.

No, this is the road most developers travel down as they become bigger. They slowly alienate a lot of their customers (by going against what they “stand” for), but it’s ok because they get rich in the process.

Chuo.4238:

Reaver.9256:

They will be releasing more levels and more gear to go with those levels. Does that answer your question?

I don’t really want to spend the next year grinding out tier gear. It really looks like this is as bad as everyone thought it would be when they announced Ascended gear.

I just want to do what I want to do, and not have to worry about gear. If I want to grind gear, there are much better games out there for that.

I dunno what’s going on at ArenaNet, but this is just getting worse and worse.

That’s the major problem they face. You think it’s getting worse and worse while I think it’s getting better and better. They have to figure out a way to please us both.

the model is old school and, honestly, barely revolutionary; but it sure does make money

Reaver.9256:

Chuo.4238:

Reaver.9256:

They will be releasing more levels and more gear to go with those levels. Does that answer your question?

I don’t really want to spend the next year grinding out tier gear. It really looks like this is as bad as everyone thought it would be when they announced Ascended gear.

I just want to do what I want to do, and not have to worry about gear. If I want to grind gear, there are much better games out there for that.

I dunno what’s going on at ArenaNet, but this is just getting worse and worse.

That’s the major problem they face. You think it’s getting worse and worse while I think it’s getting better and better. They have to figure out a way to please us both.

They really can’t. The two models are diametrically opposed. A lot of people picked up this game because they believed what now turns out to be BS: that the game would not have a gear treadmill, that characters would reach “max power” very quickly after reaching the level cap, and any “grind” after that would be purely for the purpose of getting cool cosmetic items.

Obviously that model isn’t satisfying to those who have the more mainstream expectation of some kind of ongoing gear progression and “end game” content.

I’m not saying one group or the other is wrong; I think they’re both right to like what they like and want the developers to give them what they like, it’s just that a LOT of people would have given no notice at all to GW2 if they’d been told the truth about it.

Voxdeus.1034:

I’m not saying one group or the other is wrong; I think they’re both right to like what they like and want the developers to give them what they like, it’s just that a LOT of people would have given no notice at all to GW2 if they’d been told the truth about it.

Yes, I am one of them. I really, truly believed that this game was better than a gear grind…had I known all this then, I’d never have purchased it.

Reaver.9256:

That’s the major problem they face. You think it’s getting worse and worse while I think it’s getting better and better. They have to figure out a way to please us both.

That’s the problem though. I bought the game based on the manifesto. You obviously didn’t. If you had, you wouldn’t think it was getting “better and better”.

Chuo.4238:

Voxdeus.1034:

I’m not saying one group or the other is wrong; I think they’re both right to like what they like and want the developers to give them what they like, it’s just that a LOT of people would have given no notice at all to GW2 if they’d been told the truth about it.

Yes, I am one of them. I really, truly believed that this game was better than a gear grind…had I known all this then, I’d never have purchased it.

i would have been ok with a gear grind…
but a “farming” game ? that makes me sad.
so unepic.

Fiddlestyx.9714:

Reaver.9256:

That’s the major problem they face. You think it’s getting worse and worse while I think it’s getting better and better. They have to figure out a way to please us both.

That’s the problem though. I bought the game based on the manifesto. You obviously didn’t.

Nope I didn’t. They’ve also never lied to me. I knew vertical progression was in the day the game was announced in pc gamer years and years ago.

Growing pains, I hope, & perhaps an identity crisis. They were so strong pre-release, about being skill based, open for everyone, a positive environment. I actually got weepy (but I tend to do that) when I first saw everyone rushing to rez a downed player. Sharing loot/gathering nodes – that was such a great change. I played a little swtor, & realized – ugh! I just took someone’s kill, because I’m so used to the GW2 system now. (and trying to dodge – it’s just sad)

You can’t please everyone. You really shouldn’t try. If you try to be everything to everyone, you’ll be nothing special to anyone. There’s a niceness in this game lacking – sorely lacking – in others. Others delight in the weird cruel stuff, & I’m sure that suits a lot of people. But it didn’t suit everyone, certainly. There’s a pleasant lack of cruelty in the stories, a pleasant lack of ‘jerk as hero,’ and I don’t think our culture & world really needs much encouragement to forget just plain ‘nice’ now. So I wish Anet would remember that, maybe listen to their own pre-release video & remember what lured so many of us in. It wasn’t the pretty graphics, & it certainly wasn’t to revisit the same old mmo mechanics in a cuter setting.

Reaver.9256:

Fiddlestyx.9714:

Reaver.9256:

That’s the major problem they face. You think it’s getting worse and worse while I think it’s getting better and better. They have to figure out a way to please us both.

That’s the problem though. I bought the game based on the manifesto. You obviously didn’t.

Nope I didn’t. They’ve also never lied to me. I knew vertical progression was in the day the game was announced in pc gamer years and years ago.

So, basically, you just wanted a newer, shinier WoW. I listened to what they said describing their vision. If you just ‘knew’ from the announcement that this wasn’t true, then you weren’t listening – you were just assuming their vision was a lie.

stobie.2134:

Reaver.9256:

Fiddlestyx.9714:

Reaver.9256:

That’s the major problem they face. You think it’s getting worse and worse while I think it’s getting better and better. They have to figure out a way to please us both.

That’s the problem though. I bought the game based on the manifesto. You obviously didn’t.

Nope I didn’t. They’ve also never lied to me. I knew vertical progression was in the day the game was announced in pc gamer years and years ago.

So, basically, you just wanted a newer, shinier WoW. I listened to what they said describing their vision. If you just ‘knew’ from the announcement that this wasn’t true, then you weren’t listening – you were just assuming their vision was a lie.

Nope I wanted GW2. I knew from what they said that they wouldn’t be following GW1 in terms of how limited it was. Also since GW1 had vertical progression it wasn’t hard to figure out that GW2 would expand on that.

vertical progression isnt the culprit for me.

camping/farming is.

i welcomed laurels, guild merits and ascended stuff in general because they cant be farmed.
infusions on the other hand :/

Avatar.1923:

vertical progression isnt the culprit for me.

camping/farming is.

i welcomed laurels, guild merits and ascended stuff in general because they cant be farmed.
infusions on the other hand :/

What doing dungeons over and over is not farming since when?

Reaver.9256:

Fiddlestyx.9714:

Reaver.9256:

That’s the major problem they face. You think it’s getting worse and worse while I think it’s getting better and better. They have to figure out a way to please us both.

That’s the problem though. I bought the game based on the manifesto. You obviously didn’t.

Nope I didn’t. They’ve also never lied to me. I knew vertical progression was in the day the game was announced in pc gamer years and years ago.

You “knew” it, even though they claimed otherwise?

A well deserved infraction.

The more these threads appear, the more disturbing it becomes. Anet is a group of people just like you and me. They play the same games we play (including the obvious affinity for guild wars 2). Point being is they’re bound to pick up on some of the issues without our opinions. The problem, of course, is that a lot of our ‘suggested issues’ are irate, arrogant and thus stupid. Anet can’t actually cater to them without sacrificing their own efforts or belittling other players.

Learn to rationalize better and have a little more respect. Arena Net is doing a fantastic job on their side…

now it’s your turn.

Blackmoon.6837:

A well deserved infraction.

The more these threads appear, the more disturbing it becomes. Anet is a group of people just like you and me. They play the same games we play (including the obvious affinity for guild wars 2). Point being is they’re bound to pick up on some of the issues without our opinions. The problem, of course, is that a lot of our ‘suggested issues’ are irate, arrogant and thus stupid. Anet can’t actually cater to them without sacrificing their own efforts or belittling other players.

Learn to rationalize better and have a little more respect. Arena Net is doing a fantastic job on their side…

now it’s your turn.

For what it’s worth, the infraction was for using “ANET” in the title, which I didn’t previously know was taboo.

The title you see now is not the original title.

If voicing a concern in a constructive and thoughtful manner ever becomes an infract-able offense, the forums will be pretty empty. Keep on dreaming though!

Voxdeus.1034:

Reaver.9256:

Fiddlestyx.9714:

Reaver.9256:

That’s the major problem they face. You think it’s getting worse and worse while I think it’s getting better and better. They have to figure out a way to please us both.

That’s the problem though. I bought the game based on the manifesto. You obviously didn’t.

Nope I didn’t. They’ve also never lied to me. I knew vertical progression was in the day the game was announced in pc gamer years and years ago.

You “knew” it, even though they claimed otherwise?

Where did they claim otherwise? Is there more than one manifesto video?

“We have never said there would be no vertical progression.”

Chris Whiteside

Reaver.9256:

stobie.2134:

Reaver.9256:

Fiddlestyx.9714:

Reaver.9256:

That’s the major problem they face. You think it’s getting worse and worse while I think it’s getting better and better. They have to figure out a way to please us both.

That’s the problem though. I bought the game based on the manifesto. You obviously didn’t.

Nope I didn’t. They’ve also never lied to me. I knew vertical progression was in the day the game was announced in pc gamer years and years ago.

So, basically, you just wanted a newer, shinier WoW. I listened to what they said describing their vision. If you just ‘knew’ from the announcement that this wasn’t true, then you weren’t listening – you were just assuming their vision was a lie.

Nope I wanted GW2. I knew from what they said that they wouldn’t be following GW1 in terms of how limited it was. Also since GW1 had vertical progression it wasn’t hard to figure out that GW2 would expand on that.

The difference here is, I was listening to what they actually said. And I listened carefully. I’d vowed to never, ever touch another mmo again, because of tedious grinds, a Lord of the Flies environment, & a system totally based on gear. I didn’t join this game without hearing directly what they planned. This was true for everyone who joined with me – no more mmos, but ‘this one says it’s different.’

Now, I’m not entirely surprised to see them turning this way. It seemed obvious that a mmo generation raised on gear over skill, and on horrific player behavior would be pushing for this ‘better & better’ game you describe. From the attitudes I’m seeing in game, some people desperately wanted gear that would set them apart – and above – other players. I’m not surprised, but I am sorry.

This has nothing to do with GW1 for me – I downloaded it on Steam when this one was in beta just to see what it was, so I had no strong impression either way. This has to do with the direction they’re taking, & if they’re going to the gear-progression, raid styled missions, or not. If they are, it’s going back to the mmo style I fled from, & I’d like to know it before I invest any more time here.

Reaver.9256:

Voxdeus.1034:

Reaver.9256:

Fiddlestyx.9714:

Reaver.9256:

That’s the major problem they face. You think it’s getting worse and worse while I think it’s getting better and better. They have to figure out a way to please us both.

That’s the problem though. I bought the game based on the manifesto. You obviously didn’t.

Nope I didn’t. They’ve also never lied to me. I knew vertical progression was in the day the game was announced in pc gamer years and years ago.

You “knew” it, even though they claimed otherwise?

Where did they claim otherwise? Is there more than one manifesto video?

“We have never said there would be no vertical progression.”

Chris Whiteside

“Any quote you see on the internet is true”

—Abraham Lincoln.

In any case, what they did say, in fact, is that characters could reach maximum stats/power level very shortly after hitting max level, and that any grind would be strictly for cosmetic items.

Whether or not Chris Whiteside or any one else now claims otherwise does not change the fact that this is what they promised and talked about on more than one occasion. I don’t want to characterize Mr Whiteside or his comments except to say that they run counter to what other people at Anet talked about.

I’m in the middle of several things right now, but I’ll track it down for you in a short while.

Voxdeus.1034:

Reaver.9256:

Voxdeus.1034:

Reaver.9256:

Fiddlestyx.9714:

Reaver.9256:

That’s the major problem they face. You think it’s getting worse and worse while I think it’s getting better and better. They have to figure out a way to please us both.

That’s the problem though. I bought the game based on the manifesto. You obviously didn’t.

Nope I didn’t. They’ve also never lied to me. I knew vertical progression was in the day the game was announced in pc gamer years and years ago.

You “knew” it, even though they claimed otherwise?

Where did they claim otherwise? Is there more than one manifesto video?

“We have never said there would be no vertical progression.”

Chris Whiteside

“Any quote you see on the internet is true”

—Abraham Lincoln.

In any case, what they did say, in fact, is that characters could reach maximum stats/power level very shortly after hitting max level, and that any grind would be strictly for cosmetic items.

Whether or not Chris Whiteside or any one else now claims otherwise does not change the fact that this is what they promised and talked about on more than one occasion. I don’t want to characterize Mr Whiteside or his comments except to say that they run counter to what other people at Anet talked about.

I’m in the middle of several things right now, but I’ll track it down for you in a short while.

If you won’t take my quote seriously then why would I ever take yours? I don’t know though because I’ve read 1000000 of these progression threads and have never seen them saying the game would be strictly a horizontal game.

stobie.2134:

Reaver.9256:

Voxdeus.1034:

Reaver.9256:

Voxdeus.1034:

Reaver.9256:

Fiddlestyx.9714:

Reaver.9256:

That’s the major problem they face. You think it’s getting worse and worse while I think it’s getting better and better. They have to figure out a way to please us both.

That’s the problem though. I bought the game based on the manifesto. You obviously didn’t.

Nope I didn’t. They’ve also never lied to me. I knew vertical progression was in the day the game was announced in pc gamer years and years ago.

You “knew” it, even though they claimed otherwise?

Where did they claim otherwise? Is there more than one manifesto video?

“We have never said there would be no vertical progression.”

Chris Whiteside

“Any quote you see on the internet is true”

—Abraham Lincoln.

In any case, what they did say, in fact, is that characters could reach maximum stats/power level very shortly after hitting max level, and that any grind would be strictly for cosmetic items.

Whether or not Chris Whiteside or any one else now claims otherwise does not change the fact that this is what they promised and talked about on more than one occasion. I don’t want to characterize Mr Whiteside or his comments except to say that they run counter to what other people at Anet talked about.

I’m in the middle of several things right now, but I’ll track it down for you in a short while.

If you won’t take my quote seriously then why would I ever take yours? I don’t know though because I’ve read 1000000 of these progression threads and have never seen them saying the game would be strictly a horizontal game.

Birdemic-level number generalizations are not helping your case.

I’m sorry please go count up all the past progression threads for me and pm me the number and I’ll edit my post to show the EXACT number of threads. Thanks in advance.

Reaver.9256:

If you won’t take my quote seriously then why would I ever take yours? I don’t know though because I’ve read 1000000 of these progression threads and have never seen them saying the game would be strictly a horizontal game.

They never did say that specifically. But based on the nature of GW1, and their manifesto, they implied the hell out of it. So it’s our fault for misunderstanding them, apparently.

Caveat emptor. They’re blameless, but it’s still a dodgy way of doing business.

Reaver.9256:

Voxdeus.1034:

Reaver.9256:

Voxdeus.1034:

Reaver.9256:

Fiddlestyx.9714:

Reaver.9256:

That’s the major problem they face. You think it’s getting worse and worse while I think it’s getting better and better. They have to figure out a way to please us both.

That’s the problem though. I bought the game based on the manifesto. You obviously didn’t.

Nope I didn’t. They’ve also never lied to me. I knew vertical progression was in the day the game was announced in pc gamer years and years ago.

You “knew” it, even though they claimed otherwise?

Where did they claim otherwise? Is there more than one manifesto video?

“We have never said there would be no vertical progression.”

Chris Whiteside

“Any quote you see on the internet is true”

—Abraham Lincoln.

In any case, what they did say, in fact, is that characters could reach maximum stats/power level very shortly after hitting max level, and that any grind would be strictly for cosmetic items.

Whether or not Chris Whiteside or any one else now claims otherwise does not change the fact that this is what they promised and talked about on more than one occasion. I don’t want to characterize Mr Whiteside or his comments except to say that they run counter to what other people at Anet talked about.

I’m in the middle of several things right now, but I’ll track it down for you in a short while.

If you won’t take my quote seriously then why would I ever take yours? I don’t know though because I’ve read 1000000 of these progression threads and have never seen them saying the game would be strictly a horizontal game.

I’m accepting for the sake of argument that he said what you claim. It would be nice if you provided an actual link so that I don’t have to take your word for it, but really it doesn’t matter, because an after the fact denial doesn’t change anything if it’s not true.

Voxdeus.1034:

Reaver.9256:

Voxdeus.1034:

Reaver.9256:

Voxdeus.1034:

Reaver.9256:

Fiddlestyx.9714:

Reaver.9256:

That’s the major problem they face. You think it’s getting worse and worse while I think it’s getting better and better. They have to figure out a way to please us both.

That’s the problem though. I bought the game based on the manifesto. You obviously didn’t.

Nope I didn’t. They’ve also never lied to me. I knew vertical progression was in the day the game was announced in pc gamer years and years ago.

You “knew” it, even though they claimed otherwise?

Where did they claim otherwise? Is there more than one manifesto video?

“We have never said there would be no vertical progression.”

Chris Whiteside

“Any quote you see on the internet is true”

—Abraham Lincoln.

In any case, what they did say, in fact, is that characters could reach maximum stats/power level very shortly after hitting max level, and that any grind would be strictly for cosmetic items.

Whether or not Chris Whiteside or any one else now claims otherwise does not change the fact that this is what they promised and talked about on more than one occasion. I don’t want to characterize Mr Whiteside or his comments except to say that they run counter to what other people at Anet talked about.

I’m in the middle of several things right now, but I’ll track it down for you in a short while.

If you won’t take my quote seriously then why would I ever take yours? I don’t know though because I’ve read 1000000 of these progression threads and have never seen them saying the game would be strictly a horizontal game.

I’m accepting for the sake of argument that he said what you claim. It would be nice if you provided an actual link so that I don’t have to take your word for it, but really it doesn’t matter, because an after the fact denial doesn’t change anything if it’s not true.

My apologies:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-11-27-arenanet-holds-frank-reddit-debate-on-guild-wars-2-loot-grind

And developers saying, “We never said…” is hardly new, nor does it mean there hasn’t been a major shift. I remember when LOTRO introduced stat armor – which caused justifiable anger. They’d said they’d never do this – you could find videos proving this. But it doesn’t matter. “We never said,” can be followed with, “that’s not what we meant,” or, “By ‘never,’ we didn’t mean, ’never ever.”

Things change – visions change. But this is a pretty important vision change, & I think a lot of people have stayed around with the assumption that the core values remain. (like ‘the store will never offer items that compete with player crafting…’)

stobie.2134:

Reaver.9256:

stobie.2134:

Reaver.9256:

Voxdeus.1034:

Reaver.9256:

Voxdeus.1034:

Reaver.9256:

Fiddlestyx.9714:

Reaver.9256:

That’s the major problem they face. You think it’s getting worse and worse while I think it’s getting better and better. They have to figure out a way to please us both.

That’s the problem though. I bought the game based on the manifesto. You obviously didn’t.

Nope I didn’t. They’ve also never lied to me. I knew vertical progression was in the day the game was announced in pc gamer years and years ago.

You “knew” it, even though they claimed otherwise?

Where did they claim otherwise? Is there more than one manifesto video?

“We have never said there would be no vertical progression.”

Chris Whiteside

“Any quote you see on the internet is true”

—Abraham Lincoln.

In any case, what they did say, in fact, is that characters could reach maximum stats/power level very shortly after hitting max level, and that any grind would be strictly for cosmetic items.

Whether or not Chris Whiteside or any one else now claims otherwise does not change the fact that this is what they promised and talked about on more than one occasion. I don’t want to characterize Mr Whiteside or his comments except to say that they run counter to what other people at Anet talked about.

I’m in the middle of several things right now, but I’ll track it down for you in a short while.

If you won’t take my quote seriously then why would I ever take yours? I don’t know though because I’ve read 1000000 of these progression threads and have never seen them saying the game would be strictly a horizontal game.

Birdemic-level number generalizations are not helping your case.

I’m sorry please go count up all the past progression threads for me and pm me the number and I’ll edit my post to show the EXACT number of threads. Thanks in advance.

Not for a billion $$$ am I pm-ing you anything.

Ok you can just count them up and post them here then and I’ll edit my post with that number.

Voxdeus.1034:

For what it’s worth, the infraction was for using “ANET” in the title, which I didn’t previously know was taboo.

Noted and my apologies.

Voxdeus.1034:

If voicing a concern in a constructive and thoughtful manner ever becomes an infract-able offense, the forums will be pretty empty. Keep on dreaming though!

You’re right, however, your opinion is based on elements that would flip the game 180 if implemented. How arrogant and selfish of you. If you don’t like the current core elements, then go play another game or something.

My point was that these overly-proportioned opinions shouldn’t be as bold as to suggest that Arena Net needs to change their current vision of how they want Guild Wars 2 to play out.

For the record, the best constructive critique would incorporate how the artist can go about improvement WITHOUT corrupting their vision – that’s what these exacerbated ‘suggestions’ always fail on.

Until these time gates are taken down…I will never recommend GW2 to anyone again.

I loved this game until now. I thought additional means of attaining ascended gear meant making it easier for each piece. Instead, each piece is locked behind it’s own time gate.

Such promise so easily torn asunder.

Voxdeus.1034:

These issues would not exist if the game had a basic design much closer to guild wars 1, where you reached max level (20) very quickly, and then the majority of your character progression was essentially hunting for upgrades in a wide variety of equally leveled zones and/or unlocking new areas by progressing through core story zones.

The reason I bring it up is not to cry over spilled milk, but because I wonder whether ANET has really learned their lesson.

I agree with the point about being closer to GW1. As for learning their lesson this patch shows they aren’t, the same mistakes have been made throughout the games life to date.

Voxdeus.1034:

…
I’m curious if ANET devs have given any clues that they understand that having an expanded level cap is a core problem with the design of the game, and whether they would avoid or repeat that in the future.

Nice OP. I am curious as well but not getting my hopes up.
By the sound of interviews etc. it seems like the “new” Anet stick to their beliefs (or “learned nothing”.)

At least with this game it is simple… WTS: New expansion, levels up to 85 included = LoL… Good luck all, better games for me out there no matter how nice GW2 is…

I should backtrack a bit about the gear thing. I really don’t mind the Ascended level stuff. I noticed early on here that opening a huge chest to get a blue scepter isn’t all that fun. I mean, I like loot – it’s like opening a package on a holiday. I don’t want this game to go the total-gear, all time, of other mmos, but getting stuff is fun. Having new gear to work for is fun. We did hotw a bunch of times for what I considered pretty armor, with just 4 of us, and we’d never have done that without the lure of loot. So that’s ok. I think the whole Guild Mission thing has just set me looking to find fault everywhere. Just – don’t go too far down the road to a gear-based game.

I like the way it is right now, ascended items im not particulary bothered about, ill get them in due course (since fractals iv gained enough rings to gear a few toons, however iv held off on the amulet to grab gear boxes to salvage ectos for mystic weapons and quiver). The stat increase overall isnt that much and i will get them throughout my journey for a legendary, it makes sense as exotics are so easy to aquire.

I also like the 1-80 range of levels. Even though carrots have had to be invented for people to go into lower level areas I doubt anet is done carrot making, or at least making ways to get the carrot. To rely on the daily thing is stupid, after all that only fills out max and lowest level zones. If they keep filling zones with living story arcs and other interesting events or activities i can see the areas outgrowing those pains.

HOWEVER. I would NEVER like to see a increase in the level cap so it makes me highly nervous to have seen statements like ‘we havnt rules it out’.
The OP is right, the game needs alot of max level maps and activities. I was personally hoping that even though this year wont include too much of it, down the line the world expansions and new zones would all be level 80 as well, rather than a new level range for players to mega rage at the fact they need to gear up again. The only way to play this slight alienation (granted between some of the extreme examples of the community) is to offer new gear after ascended, as purely horizontal (different stat combinations) and more functional (love utility infusions, could add ways to slot more in etc).
New cosmetic items all round aswell. You could keep adding them in and there will be players who seek the new ones everytime. Skins seem like they work well with different specific content. Why not add skin types in for explorer challenges like jumping puzzles?? Anet have seem to have forgot that they can use skins to distract the hungry for new loot type of player.

I have to agree with the OP. IMO, GW2 would have been better if the max level was 30, and all post-Lion’s Arch zones were designed to be played at max level. This would have created an innate incentive for players to spread out across the world, instead of bunching up in Orr and Frostgorge until ANet had to push them out.

Of course this cannot be changed now, but I am sure ANet is always evaluating how to make GW2 as good as possible. Honestly, maintaining the level cap at 80 should be on the table, as it would simultaneously help assuage the anti-gear grind crowd and increase the density of high-level zones in the world (which would be a good thing IMO).

I’m sure someone is ready to quote ANet stating that they would “absolutely” raise the level cap, but ANet has shown that they are willing to reevaluate and adjust their previous design direction. IMO, raising the level cap would be a big detriment given the current state of the game.