Guild Wars 2

In all these threads about Nerfing Thieves because we’re “way too slippery; way too fast; way too stealthy; way too awesome” (okay, we are pretty awesome) is that our mechanics come along with trade-offs.

1) We have the fewest hit points in the game.
2) We have the fewest weapons in the game
3) We have no special offhand weapons/foci like the other classes

I’m not saying these things make us especially weak, compared to others, but that’s because we get compensated with strengths to offset them.

1) We _ are supposed to _ have the highest single target spike damage in the game
2) We have an initiative system which lets us be more fluid in combat
3) We have steal, which might be as cool as an offhand foci – sometimes.

(other Thieves will be able to add to these lists)

We’re not remotely the only class what has Stealth, so I’m not going there.

Nor are we the slipperiest class in the game, though we’re supposed to be.

We are different from some of the other classes in how our mechanics work – but we trade for everything we get; and what we’ve been getting is nerfed in every update because people are screaming and the devs are forgetting that we were built to be balanced against ourselves. Every time they nerf one of our benefits, our drawbacks get that much heavier with no compensation. How is that right, or fair to the players involved?

Thieves are fun to play, because we are a little different from the other classes, but we get less fun when every update comes with a nerf; and the people calling for them don’t know anything about the class. So, now at least you’ll know a little more next time you complain.

And that’s my vent for the day.

Typical theif player lies.

Thief:
Two-handed
-Shortbow
Main-hand
-Sword
-Dagger
-Pistol
Off-hand
-Dagger
-Pistol
Aquatic
-Harpoon gun
-Spear

Engineer:
Two-handed
– Rifle
Main-hand
– Pistol
Off-hand
-Pistol
– Shield
Aquatic
-Harpoon gun

suggestion: get full 8 professions and compare when they all hit level 80.
I have a thief and I would wish to replace my invisibility with something else. Call it frenzy or whatever else that would up my damage the same way invisibility does. Then at least I would be visible to other players and they would be able to counter me with far less problems.
Thieves are getting buffed in the next patch in a very unfair way – your steal will not be able to steal a full stack of boons from another player and you will be able to freely spread it to the rest of your group. Why is this allowed instead of giving thieves ability to get boons? Boons are hard to stack and normally require very specific skill uses at very specific times. Pressing 1 button to get a full stack of it doesn’t seem fair.

Don’t forget Ele…

Main hand
-Dagger
-Scepter
-Staff
Off hand
-Dagger
-Focus
Underwater
-Trident

Also just curious where was it stated theives are suppose to have the highest single target dps?

How are theives not the sliperiest class. They are easily one of if not the most mobile class.

The Elementalist gets attunements, each of which gives them a whole new weapon bar.

The Engineer gets packages, each of which gives them a whole new weapon bar.

Being rather disingenuous forgetting those.

You said “We have the fewest weapons in the game”, that’s untrue.

Also why are you classifying the off hand focus, as something cool like steal… The focus is a weapon, like ANY other; steal is a class mechanic, more like shatters for mesmers, or bursts for warriors.

Jack of Tears.9458:

The Engineer gets packages, each of which gives them a whole new weapon bar.

Being rather disingenuous forgetting those.

We’re not forgetting them because they’re not actually weapons. Nor do they come with every build as Atunements do with Elementalist. We also loose Utility Slots when we choose Kits, which prevent us from using Stun Breakers, Invulnerables, Boons, ect.

Engineers have the lowest amount of weapon choice, period.

Theifs have steal, Eles have their attunements, which should count as x4 as many weapon sets. Engineers have Kits, which should up their count even more (never played an Engineer so I’m not gonna pretend that I know their stuff :P)

Now if you want to go off just RAW weapons, then you are right, Engineers win at the sucking game, but over all Elementalists are the most flexible class to the situation, and Engineer coming up close aswell.

Lets not confuse the topic here, this isn’t about Meta-Builds, this is about over-all classes.

Thieves are fine imo. The culling update was a big enough nerf to the people that everyone was complaining about, we didn’t need the stealth change ontop of it. The mug damage change coming up will be a big deal aswell, but D/D thieves will keep Stealthing people.

Engineers doing insane amount of damage with nades is more tiresome then fighting with a stealthing Thief imo.

Tengu.4209:

Theifs have steal, Eles have their attunements, which should count as x4 as many weapon sets. Engineers have Kits, which should up their count even more (never played an Engineer so I’m not gonna pretend that I know their stuff :P)

Now if you want to go off just RAW weapons, then you are right, Engineers win at the sucking game, but over all Elementalists are the most flexible class to the situation, and Engineer coming up close aswell.

Lets not confuse the topic here, this isn’t about Meta-Builds, this is about over-all classes.

Thieves are fine imo. The culling update was a big enough nerf to the people that everyone was complaining about, we didn’t need the stealth change ontop of it. The mug damage change coming up will be a big deal aswell, but D/D thieves will keep Stealthing people.

Engineers doing insane amount of damage with nades is more tiresome then fighting with a stealthing Thief imo.

except nades will never land on moving targets and the damage is a joke when compared to backstab and thief over all damage even thief’s cluster bomb outdamages nades

Please allow me to play the worlds smallest violin to a montage of thieves hitting for thousands of damage in a few seconds and then disengaging at will with stealth.

Thief is meant to be highest mobility and burst class in game Anet said it! Also dont forget that pistol in main hand is just usless. SB deals no damage in PvP and WvW, CnD can counter anyone, dagger autoattck deals 2x nothing and 3rd strike is good damage (so you have to hit 2x before you get the attack which accualy deals some damage)…..but bad players see thief as perma-invis-blinking-instant-killing-machine with no CDs and unlimited resources to spam other speels….

Eles have the same low hit points as you do, and even lower armor. They can’t swap weapons on the fly, even though they technically have more choices. Saying you have the lowest health in the game is not the same as saying you are tied with other professions for the lowest health in the game.

With the exception of warriors, guardians and mesmers, everyone thinks their profession is doing it tough. And I’ve even heard warriors complaining about PvP and WvW.

BadHabitZz.1856:

Thief is meant to be highest mobility and burst class in game Anet said it! Also dont forget that pistol in main hand is just usless. SB deals no damage in PvP and WvW, CnD can counter anyone, dagger autoattck deals 2x nothing and 3rd strike is good damage (so you have to hit 2x before you get the attack which accualy deals some damage)…..but bad players see thief as perma-invis-blinking-instant-killing-machine with no CDs and unlimited resources to spam other speels….

using a pistol in my main hand quite fine thank you. Pistol in main hand means that you have the easiest time stacking vulnerability out of any other class, whixh is really useful against bosses in PVE. Most weapons have their uses. If you don’t have a build for it, don’t say that it’s useless.

Thief is Tied with Elementalist and Guardian for Lowest HP in the game. They do not have the fewest weapons, (that goes to Elementalist) and what form your off hand weapons take are irrelevant. Thief is actually the only profession for whom the #3 skill varies based on which offhand is selected.

Thief is one of my favorites to play, (I have a level 80 of all professions except for Engineer). I don’t think the profession itself is over-powered, but it’s possible certain builds need to be slightly adjusted and further balance achieved by improving other professions, where appropriate. However, if you argument on why they aren’t OP’d starts with three bullet points that are misleading or untrue, you probably aren’t doing the profession any good with your post.

In general, there is a lot of buffing that needs to happen to various professions and builds through out the game and more viable build diversity for all professions should be an over-riding goal for the remainder of the year.

IMO, outside of specific sPvP tweaks, Arenanet shouldn’t be nerfing anything until they have successfully managed to boost build diversity and general playability for all the professions. One they have successfully expanded the number of fun/viable builds across the board, they may find that nerfs that mike make sense in the current meta require little or no action amidst a stronger variety of builds for all professions.

It may seem like it would be less work to just nerf the most powerful builds, rather than try to raise up a bunch more to be comparable and that may be true. The thing is, though, that many people have gravitated towards some of the top builds not because they theory-crafted for min/max or decided to copy/paste the current Flavor of the Month, but instead have arrived at their builds while working out what kind of build was fun to play for their profession. Nerfing powerful builds to bring them in line with mediocre ones is likely to also nerf fun builds to the point they are no longer very fun. Balance would be counter-productive to the game if the point of parity where one where nothing is very fun to play!

I’ve played many, many MMOs over the last 14 years and I think balancing away fun game play is probably one of the most common game killing mistakes that developers make after release. Nerfs to FotM builds tend to go overboard in most games, with developers deciding to just nerf such builds to uselessness, rather than trying to find a way to maintain the flavor, while restoring balance. I don’t think Arenanet has gone to the common extreme, but that doesn’t mean that nerfing, rather than buffing, improving and tuning, is actually preferable.

Fiontar.4695:

Thief is Tied with Elementalist and Guardian for Lowest HP in the game.
<snip>

+1

I forgot that posts like above exists on the internets anymore

Jack of Tears.9458:

We’re not remotely the only class what has Stealth, so I’m not going there.

but thief is the only class who can consistently keep stealthing until he/she gets bored

Nor are we the slipperiest class in the game, though we’re supposed to be.

actually, thief is. Join a battle from stealth, spike your victim to death, stealth and flee unpunished. Out of initiative? roll for initiative, rinse and repeat.
I am still undecided, between warrior and thief, which one is the most roflstomping class: they are both so easy it’s painful, I remember how much I struggled to level at first when I rolled my very first character in gw2 (Elementalist).
Everything else is a piece of cake to level and to succeed with, really.

Jack of Tears.9458:

In all these threads about Nerfing Thieves because we’re “way too slippery; way too fast; way too stealthy; way too awesome” (okay, we are pretty awesome) is that our mechanics come along with trade-offs.

1) We have the fewest hit points in the game.
2) We have the fewest weapons in the game
3) We have no special offhand weapons/foci like the other classes

I’m not saying these things make us especially weak, compared to others, but that’s because we get compensated with strengths to offset them.

1) We _ are supposed to _ have the highest single target spike damage in the game
2) We have an initiative system which lets us be more fluid in combat
3) We have steal, which might be as cool as an offhand foci – sometimes.

(other Thieves will be able to add to these lists)

We’re not remotely the only class what has Stealth, so I’m not going there.

Nor are we the slipperiest class in the game, though we’re supposed to be.

We are different from some of the other classes in how our mechanics work – but we trade for everything we get; and what we’ve been getting is nerfed in every update because people are screaming and the devs are forgetting that we were built to be balanced against ourselves. Every time they nerf one of our benefits, our drawbacks get that much heavier with no compensation. How is that right, or fair to the players involved?

Thieves are fun to play, because we are a little different from the other classes, but we get less fun when every update comes with a nerf; and the people calling for them don’t know anything about the class. So, now at least you’ll know a little more next time you complain.

And that’s my vent for the day.

Nerf thieves.

First off, i wish they just remove the world stealth and call it invisibility. Sorry, but if i see someone running towards me and then ‘stealths’, i should still see them running towards me.
And you’re right, they have the highest burst and are the slippiest class, which is a horrible combination. Invisiblity is the next best thing to invulnerability. Your oppenent can’t see you, can’t target you. All he can do is swing wildly hoping for that glimmer of hope to hit, only for a thief to shadow step, bow 5, or their blinfing powder activates.

They made theives have too much control in fights. The ability to do spike damage, disappear, and spike again has always been stupid. At least in WoW, if a rogue got close, you had a chance to react with their stealth sound, or even seeing them.

You can have your spike damage, you can keep being slippery, but when you have the second best defensive ability in the game, its op.

I love how OP states the false (both engis and eles have less weapon choices) and then disingenously forgets that they trade their kits/attunements with the ability to swap weapons…

Also worth noticing the nice choice of words regarding health pools, making it look like it’s not possible for other classes to have the same hp pool (guardians and eles both do).

I also have trouble understanding what “special offhand weapons/foci” are. What is a Guardian’s special offhand weapon?

I don’t have a problem with thieves but complaining that you don’t have “special offhands” is one of the most pointless complaints I’ve seen on here.

It doesn’t matter whether the offhand is called x, or y, or z. You get your 2 abilities on them regardless. Do you really like focus skins or something?

raptor.1064:

Typical theif player lies.

Thief:
Two-handed
-Shortbow
Main-hand
-Sword
-Dagger
-Pistol
Off-hand
-Dagger
-Pistol
Aquatic
-Harpoon gun
-Spear

Engineer:
Two-handed
– Rifle
Main-hand
– Pistol
Off-hand
-Pistol
– Shield
Aquatic
-Harpoon gun

/thread me thinks. As an Engi I think thieves are fine as they are. They can stealth all they want but they cant escape AoE from my grenades.

Sorry to sound pedant, but I wanted to let OP know I’m still waiting to understand what “special offhands/foci” are