Guild Wars 2

rapthorne.7345:

Almost every single traitline got buffed like mad and some very niche, pointless and poor builds got changed around. I don’t see a problem. Most people I’ve talked to love the specialisation system, after adjusting their various builds to fit with it.

RIP thief pistol/pistol
RIP ranger traps(throwable)

so…..buff? what buff. forcing us to play “League builds” instead of our old “less effective but more fitting to our own playstyle” build?

Personally I’ve found the new system awesome. Unlike the old system where you usually had to go deep into 2 lines to make a certain set of utilities optimal, each specialization track seems to keep its utility traits localized; making it easy to run two different utility types of traited utility and still being able to invest in your weapons or class mechanics.

arenta.2953:

rapthorne.7345:

Almost every single traitline got buffed like mad and some very niche, pointless and poor builds got changed around. I don’t see a problem. Most people I’ve talked to love the specialisation system, after adjusting their various builds to fit with it.

RIP thief pistol/pistol
RIP ranger traps(throwable)

so…..buff? what buff. forcing us to play “League builds” instead of our old “less effective but more fitting to our own playstyle” build?

They screw up some build and that’s wrong, but overall we have more good option now than we use to have. They should keep improving it and fixing some of the build they broken.

Luna Leon.3480:

My opinion is that Specializations is a FAIL.

By having Trait lines and points we could have so many different builts.
e.g. (3-4-4-3-0, 6-6-2-0-0, 3-3-3-3-2 etc)

Even if many compinations were a “mistake” to use… We had the option to do it. It was OUR way of playing. And instead of giving us more… you limit us?

F-A-I-L !

Consider improving the game not downgrading it. Reason of an upgrade is not to see a new pretty city in GW.

Reason of an upgrade is not just give my Warrior a Greataxe to use.

Reason of an upgrade is to…

- Give my Warrior a Greataxe to use BUT most important,
- LET ME USE IT THE WAY I LIKE!

You had that and instead of improving it… You are KILLING it.

check: Specializations vs Trait Lines, Ricochet trait (Thief), etc. You are killing the fun of the game.

I agree with you, It’s the third time a specific build I was running becomes impossible to keep playing. THis time it’s because they’ve removed condi duration and boon duration in pvp and because it required 4 trait lines.

They should have fixed the lines, added 4 points to spend, and not force people into 3 lines. Now with an extra line you will feel really limited in choices because you won’t even be able to choose half your trait lines.

As an elementalist, the core mechanic of our class (lingering elements) was nerfed because of the boon duration removal then and rendered useless because it cant work with 5 lines anymore.

I do not dislike new system entirely because it does force me into some tough decisions. However… I hate when Anet is trying to maintain some illusions about it.

- Adept, Master, Grandmaster minor traits no longer exist. You might as well roll them all into one massive trait and you’d be none the wiser. It’s basically an illusion of having 3 traits just so it visually looks it has more. I mean no one is stupid to fall for that right?

- Adept, Master Grandmaster grand traits almost completely lost their meaning. You can swap places of all GM and Adept traits and there’d be no difference. Because you now go all the way into “tree”.

- Some very questionable trait placements, to a point of utter ridiculousness. Worst of all there’s no sign okittennowledgement or intent to rectify such issues. Most of them are left where they were with complete disregard of the fact that now you have limited number of trait lines you can choose from.

Mechanically this system isn’t bad it just feels like Anet is STILL stumbling in the dark with it. I Fear that the biggest downfall of it would be bad trait placement especially now when they made such a restrictive system with absolutely no wiggle room.

They did it for balance, pure and simple. By having specializations they can balance for more builds, making more builds viable. More builds being viable increases build variety for people that actually want to do content, like dungeons and pvp. Builds fall in and out of grace all the time, stop whining.

Personally I love how they want to open up different playstyles on our classes than us having to swap classes, and most of all have this as our progression and not gear based by releasing new tiers.. My only gripe is that the name elite specialization is very misleading, especially for those who are new, it sounds as it is a superior playstyle, or meant to be played at some ‘endgame’ over the vanilla ones.

Thaddeus.4891:

arenta.2953:

rapthorne.7345:

Almost every single traitline got buffed like mad and some very niche, pointless and poor builds got changed around. I don’t see a problem. Most people I’ve talked to love the specialisation system, after adjusting their various builds to fit with it.

RIP thief pistol/pistol
RIP ranger traps(throwable)

so…..buff? what buff. forcing us to play “League builds” instead of our old “less effective but more fitting to our own playstyle” build?

They screw up some build and that’s wrong, but overall we have more good option now than we use to have. They should keep improving it and fixing some of the build they broken.

while they did give more good options

people will miss what they enjoyed.

sometimes its more fun to have a bad build thats fun to play. instead of a good build that feels like 90% of all other builds.

i miss throwing traps and having a pistol build that didn’t get me kicked from parties 100% of the time (Pistol/pistol gets me kicked from parties 100% of the time now. before rickrocket was removed, i only got kicked 30% of the time)

not to say i dislike all the changes
i’ve NEVER had this much fun on necro before!

its now my favorite class and reaper incoming makes it more appealing

The new system and addition of specs is to set a base for the future. I think they did a good job setting up a base. Sure some you may have lost some kitten, but it doesn’t mean it cant be replaced. This game, despite what a lot of people cry about, is always changing at the base. Once they have their foundation (which is what this spec reroll as all about) they add to it.

Where I think they effed up Elite Specs was calling them “Elite” and then giving them “names”, suggesting that they were indeed another profession altogether.
“I am no longer a X, I am a Y”

As others have observed, I’d also agree that the new system is good, however they really need to have each tier of trait (master, grandmaster, etc.) be able to slot a trait from that tier or any tier lower. The way things are now, you must have one adept, one master, and one grandmaster. It would be better if for example the grandmaster slot could hold a trait from any tier.

(Likewise the elite skill slot really should be able to hold a normal utility skill if the player desired to do so. If that unbalances things, what does that say about the quality of elite skills?)

Crossaber.8934:

Carighan.6758:

usernameisapain.7163:

People here saying that getting rid of “worthless options” or only having access to optimized builds is a good thing… How so!

Eh… because it means more diversity?

If you got 16000 spec combinations, of which ~9 are sensible, or you got 810 spec combinations of which 12 are sensible, you just increased actual diversity by 33%.

Now, ideally these numbers converge. The less things the devs have to balance, the more balanced the remaining ones will be. In other words, in the ideal case at some point you’ll have only 40 or 50 possible ways to build your char, but all are viable.

This is correct.

Not to mention there will be more speciality in the future, the overall build diversity will increase gradually.

It is correct but it is also at least the second or third time it has been given as a reason for changing the traits system. How many more things will they need to get rid of before it becomes manageable for the devs?

As it is each profession has 196,830 possible trait combinations and specialization adds another 196,830. This is just traits. Have the build gurus looked at all of these? See what synergies may be available with certain weapons and utility skills in an attempt to find that min/max combo that the devs missed?

No, what we get are players complaining that the setup they had been using is no longer possible, probably due to the prevention of multiple adepts as well as the pruning and merging of traits into the ones that remain. And in most cases these were builds that were copied and not discovered on their own. The so call “meta”.

Hey, the rules change. I get it, nobody likes their cheese moved but this is the life cycle of MMOs. Stuff changes, players get to respec. Fortunately by level 80 we have enough hero points to unlock every trait and skill, for free now, and we can respec, for free, at will. I’m sure we will all be able to adjust as long as we let go of the past. Those builds of old are gone. Move on already, it’s been more than a month.

I have never played with the old system, so I can’t say if it was better, but I think the current system leaves a lot to be desired.

Currently the choices look like this to me: “Do you want to be better with a certain weapon, gain a defense bonus when you reach 50% health, or inflict a status effect when you crit?”

The problem is that the answer is almost always obvious. If you use that weapon, then you will pick the weapon. If you have synergies running off that status effect you will pick that effect, if you have neither you will pick the defense. This exact same choice probably crops up 3 or 4 different places in your masteries.

A much better set of choices would be:

“Which one of these weapons do you want to be better with?”
“Which one of these defensive effects do you want to gain at 50% health?”
“Which one of these status effects do you want to inflict on crits?”

Hmm…

While I don’t mind the specialization system (either way is fine to me); I’m a bit curious on what build variety has been lost. Can anyone compose some builds that were possible in the old system but not new one? I can think of a few.

The discussion is fine and all, but I think some specific examples should be thrown out. Don’t include traits that have been removed, because that’s not an inherent problem with the trait system but rather trait selection which is a separate issue.

ArchonWing.9480:

Hmm…

While I don’t mind the specialization system (either way is fine to me); I’m a bit curious on what build variety has been lost. Can anyone compose some builds that were possible in the old system but not new one? I can think of a few.

The discussion is fine and all, but I think some specific examples should be thrown out. Don’t include traits that have been removed, because that’s not an inherent problem with the trait system but rather trait selection which is a separate issue.

throwable ranger traps

bouncing thief pistol (also pistol/pistol needs a buff….SINCE LAUNCH)

other than those 2….meh
i like hte new necro

arenta.2953:

rapthorne.7345:

Almost every single traitline got buffed like mad and some very niche, pointless and poor builds got changed around. I don’t see a problem. Most people I’ve talked to love the specialisation system, after adjusting their various builds to fit with it.

RIP thief pistol/pistol
RIP ranger traps(throwable)

so…..buff? what buff. forcing us to play “League builds” instead of our old “less effective but more fitting to our own playstyle” build?

Just for curiosity… How about ppl using “less effective” builds and crying on forums because ppl kick/avoid them?

P.S.
I don’t use meta builds as i don’t use clown builds, just to be clear: I use personal builds with suggestions from my guildes usually.

ErolQuest.7209:

arenta.2953:

rapthorne.7345:

Almost every single traitline got buffed like mad and some very niche, pointless and poor builds got changed around. I don’t see a problem. Most people I’ve talked to love the specialisation system, after adjusting their various builds to fit with it.

RIP thief pistol/pistol
RIP ranger traps(throwable)

so…..buff? what buff. forcing us to play “League builds” instead of our old “less effective but more fitting to our own playstyle” build?

Just for curiosity… How about ppl using “less effective” builds and crying on forums because ppl kick/avoid them?

P.S.
I don’t use meta builds as i don’t use clown builds, just to be clear: I use personal builds with suggestions from my guildes usually.

eh i didn’t cry. though i probably should have.

back when i only got kicked 30% of time i’d just jump to next group

but now. they see 2 pistols and its kick time…and i’ve abandoned the class entirely.

I think specializations are actually bringing more people back to the game that took breaks.

i think theis change was needed and will bring a new spark to the game

Zev.3407:

I think specializations are actually bringing more people back to the game that took breaks.

i think theis change was needed and will bring a new spark to the game

I would have to disagree. People who leave the game don’t come back for something like this – especially since the trait system was not one of the major reason people left it to begin with.
Heck, the awful party search system had more to do with me leaving the game for a year than the trait system did.
When I came back, this change was more of a “what the whaaat” moment, since I didn’t even hear about it as a major game update; I came back to check out the new LS, and here was my character….needing to be respecced yet again for this new system. Funny, because the tedium of having to redo my builds constantly was a major factor to me leaving the game.
I have no idea why this was a priority! (something something new weapons something something HoT). If anything, it’s made the Hero panel even more of a ridiculous mess.

Will it kill the game for me? Nah, it’s not that major of an annoyance. It does, however, add a few more drops to that bucket.

i personally think you are somewhat right – temporarily – i really like the idea about specializations BUT what will be very important, is that they add new specializations as fast as possible to every class….so that you get back the variety and the different builds…i know this is going to be difficult also for balancing reasons but they should have known this from the beginning…
imo they should aim for at least 3 specializations per class – asap, within a year or so…yeah thats tough but well…

arenta.2953:

ErolQuest.7209:

arenta.2953:

rapthorne.7345:

Almost every single traitline got buffed like mad and some very niche, pointless and poor builds got changed around. I don’t see a problem. Most people I’ve talked to love the specialisation system, after adjusting their various builds to fit with it.

RIP thief pistol/pistol
RIP ranger traps(throwable)

so…..buff? what buff. forcing us to play “League builds” instead of our old “less effective but more fitting to our own playstyle” build?

Just for curiosity… How about ppl using “less effective” builds and crying on forums because ppl kick/avoid them?

P.S.
I don’t use meta builds as i don’t use clown builds, just to be clear: I use personal builds with suggestions from my guildes usually.

eh i didn’t cry. though i probably should have.

back when i only got kicked 30% of time i’d just jump to next group

but now. they see 2 pistols and its kick time…and i’ve abandoned the class entirely.

Pistol-pistol thief has never been good at anything. I’ve tried to make it work as well as those “clown meta” builds using daggers or sword-pistol but it just did not work. At some point you have to realize that a build sucks and that you should only use it in open world where nobody cares.

You aren’t being forced into the specialization, if you don’t put it as a spec option, you aren’t it (correct me if wrong).

So say for warrior, you take arms, defense, and “dragon slayer” (calling it now, also to still mock ‘dragon hunter’). Then you spec how you do now.

Is this system good? Yeah, I think it is. Is it great? Eh…it’s not on level of path of exiles character creation, but implementing something like that in gw2 would destroy pvp and wvw balance.

arenta.2953:

ErolQuest.7209:

arenta.2953:

rapthorne.7345:

Almost every single traitline got buffed like mad and some very niche, pointless and poor builds got changed around. I don’t see a problem. Most people I’ve talked to love the specialisation system, after adjusting their various builds to fit with it.

RIP thief pistol/pistol
RIP ranger traps(throwable)

so…..buff? what buff. forcing us to play “League builds” instead of our old “less effective but more fitting to our own playstyle” build?

Just for curiosity… How about ppl using “less effective” builds and crying on forums because ppl kick/avoid them?

P.S.
I don’t use meta builds as i don’t use clown builds, just to be clear: I use personal builds with suggestions from my guildes usually.

eh i didn’t cry. though i probably should have.

back when i only got kicked 30% of time i’d just jump to next group

but now. they see 2 pistols and its kick time…and i’ve abandoned the class entirely.

Thanks for yuor honesty :P
Recently, I changed my build to better help my guildes on higher fractals ^^

I dont really understand why we are still arguing about this. The new specializations killed a few sub-par builds like ricochet thief (which was bad before, and awful/impossible now) and trap-throwing ranger are now gone.

HOWEVER, every single class is stronger than they were. There are now multiple “viable” builds for each class instead of just one. Almost all classes are now viable in the current “end-game” PVE content… aka dungeons/fractals. PvP and WvW builds are in almost constant flux with each week bringing out a new strong build with a counter coming up shortly thereafter, which will keep players interested in these modes playing the game and challenged.

Also, would like to add that trap ranger is now actually much stronger than before, however this is mostly due to the condi changes rather than the specializations.

Divorcing the stats from the trait lines opened up so many more opportunities on almost every class. Many traits used to be hidden behind an AWFUL stat choice that made it completely useless.

They moved these choices to your armor. So now you can make all new stat combos with your armor. Which had many people complaining “now i have to get more armor”. To which I reply…. OH NO you have to actually play the game, HEAVEN FORBID!!! Most people at this point have already played the same content a thousand times for no reason. Now you actually have a reason to farm for more stuff.