Guild Wars 2

Thanks!!!

This certainly clears things up alot!

So excited!

Hey Karl, what about skills like Line of Warding in PvP. If you cross it multiple times in a row, will you lose a Stability stack each time or will you be immune to the effect for a few seconds?

Thanks for the clarification!

Isn’t 10 stacks of stability nearly impossible to tear down in a 1v1 situation, or is that intended?

With that high number of stacks, it seems like stability will retain its current effectiveness on duels, but will be generally weaker on team fighting. Not that I think this is a bad thing, just noting.

Karl, does it stack in intensity? Like say 5 engineers got around and tossed elixer at the same time? Would each get 15 for 5 seconds?

Atherakhia.4086:

Karl, does it stack in intensity? Like say 5 engineers got around and tossed elixer at the same time? Would each get 15 for 4 seconds?

Yes, it stacks in intensity. Karl has said that in his post.

Karl McLain.5604:

Lytalm.5673:

Hey Karl, what about skills like Line of Warding in PvP. If you cross it multiple times in a row, will you lose a Stability stack each time or will you be immune to the effect for a few seconds?

Good question! Each time you cross the threshold, an instance of Stability would be removed.

That’s really nice! Now there is even more of a reason to kite some one while being on a cap point as a guardian.

What are you doing about slickshoes to keep it from knocking off 10+ stacks of stability in under a second?

Similarly, in WvW where constant amounts of CC are stacked on eachother while fighting, such as lines of warding, rings of warding, earthshaker, static fields, etc. Would passing through multiple of the same skill knockdown the stability stacks immediately? E.g. two lines of warding stacked right over eachother, would you lose 2 stacks?

Karl McLain.5604:

snip

Will removing the break bar completely trigger a specific predetermined form of CC for that particular boss, or will the CC that the boss is afflicted with depend on the last CC skill to remove the “break bar”?

How will Boon Duration work?

DiogoSilva.7089:

Isn’t 10 stacks of stability nearly impossible to tear down in a 1v1 situation, or is that intended?

With that high number of stacks, it seems like stability will retain its current effectiveness on duels, but will be generally weaker on team fighting. Not that I think this is a bad thing, just noting.

I think a turret engi might be able to take 10 stacks on their own, but only if the person in question was silly enough to repeatedly stand close to the engi’s turrets when detonated.

Let me count that, let’s see…
Net Turret overcharge(1) + detonation(2)
Rocket Turret overcharge(3) + detonation(4)
Thumper Turret overcharge(5) + detonation(6)
Healing Turret detonation(7)
Supply drop (8)
Shield 4 knockback (9)
Shield 5 block (10)+ projectile (11)+ return (12)

So… if a turret engi manages to hit you with all of those effects, he can pull off as much as 11 stacks of stability and still stun you… and have absolutely nothing left for CC…

…Actually, I think I might have found a possible thing that might need tweaking, because I don’t think Static Shield has a limit to how many times it can stun a individual person per second (since it’s a 1sec stun from an effect that lasts 1 1/4 second). Someone who pops stability before using a multi-hit attack against a pistol/shield engi might find themselves without stability in frighteningly short order.

Wanze.8410:

How will Boon Duration work?

It will stay the same as it does right now ; Will increase the during of the boon.

A 10sec 5 stack Stability with 10% increase Boon duration buff will give 11sec 5 stack Stability.

Do you consider reviewing certain pve creatures that generates multiple cc per second?

Booms.2594:

What are you doing about slickshoes to keep it from knocking off 10+ stacks of stability in under a second?

I assume the little fields would work like warding lines- you walk over it, you lose 1 stack, you walk over it again, you lose another.

Granted Slick shoes doesn’t actual require you to move at all to start falling over (something that still leaves me a bit flabbergasted) …but that seems like the most sane answer.

The stability changes sound like a recipe for disaster for WvW

Foefaller.1082:

Booms.2594:

What are you doing about slickshoes to keep it from knocking off 10+ stacks of stability in under a second?

I assume the little fields would work like warding lines- you walk over it, you lose 1 stack, you walk over it again, you lose another.

Granted Slick shoes doesn’t actual require you to move at all to start falling over (something that still leaves me a bit flabbergasted) …but that seems like the most sane answer.

and theres actually like 20+ little fields that might each proc stability

Foefaller.1082:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Isn’t 10 stacks of stability nearly impossible to tear down in a 1v1 situation, or is that intended?

With that high number of stacks, it seems like stability will retain its current effectiveness on duels, but will be generally weaker on team fighting. Not that I think this is a bad thing, just noting.

I think a turret engi might be able to take 10 stacks on their own, but only if the person in question was silly enough to repeatedly stand close to the engi’s turrets when detonated.

Let me count that, let’s see…
Net Turret overcharge(1) + detonation(2)
Rocket Turret overcharge(3) + detonation(4)
Thumper Turret overcharge(5) + detonation(6)
Healing Turret detonation(7)
Supply drop (8)
Shield 4 knockback (9)
Shield 5 block (10)+ projectile (11)+ return (12)

So… if a turret engi manages to hit you with all of those effects, he can pull off as much as 11 stacks of stability and still stun you… and have absolutely nothing left for CC…

…Actually, I think I might have found a possible thing that might need tweaking, because I don’t think Static Shield has a limit to how many times it can stun a individual person per second (since it’s a 1sec stun from an effect that lasts 1 1/4 second). Someone who pops stability before using a multi-hit attack against a pistol/shield engi might find themselves without stability in frighteningly short order.

I think the point is self stab is stronger and your better off boon striping it then just cc striping it. At the same time aoe stabs are weaker stabs that you can put cc out there to strip it.

Malediktus.3740:

The stability changes sound like a recipe for disaster for WvW

All new things tend to sound this way but life is changes and WvW is super stagnant it needs to be changed badly and its best to embrace it.

Karl McLain.5604:

Hello all!

A few days ago, we showed a few of the abilities and traits for our new profession, the Revenant. Along with the new profession, we were able to show a change to stability, and we mentioned that you’ll be seeing this change sooner rather than later. That ”sooner” will be upon us very shortly!

Here’s the lowdown:

Stability is moving from being a binary duration-stacking type that blocks all crowd-controls for its duration to an intensity-stacking boon that removes one stack per incoming crowd-control. The goal of this change is to make the boon non-binary and to increase the benefit of using stability-granting abilities at the most opportune time in order to absorb the most control skills possible.

Almost all profession skills and traits that previously granted stability have been looked at and will be modified to apply an appropriate number of stacks according to their purpose. For example: Dolyak Signet (whose primary function is self-stability) will gain 10 stacks of stability for 8 seconds, while Toss Elixir B (which is an area of effect ability for the engineer) will grant 3 stacks to 5 allies for 5 seconds.

You may ask: “But what about my boon removal skills? Will they only corrupt one instance of stability now?” To which we say: Your corruptions and boon removals will clear the boon completely, unless otherwise noted.

I hope that’s cleared things up a bit. Thanks for reading!

-Karl

What about channeled attacks from NPCs? For example (it was brought up in the dungeon subforums) Inquest Technicians in Arah. Sometimes you’ll have 2 of them firing at you, tossing out a daze every second. With my current Elixir B I can toss that and I’d have 4s to make my escape or otherwise maneuver myself. With the change upon the second second I’ll be stuck in their daze as if I have 2 on me I’ll have 2 dazes the first second, then 2 the second and that’ll have stripped my 3 stacks +1.

Seems like quite the negative change for that situation and such is my concern with all channeled CC attacks from Mobs. Where we previously could be safe for X duration now we might only be safe for a second or two because of the quick stripping of our stability.

I really don’t see how you can say the change is done to make them " increase the benefit of using stability-granting abilities at the most opportune time" when you’re increasing the duration but simply making them weaker within that time by capping them out on the amount of effects they can negate. It seems quite the opposite to me, making it easier to keep up as you have longer duration, but being weaker against a large spike of effects.

Jski.6180:

Malediktus.3740:

The stability changes sound like a recipe for disaster for WvW

All new things tend to sound this way but life is changes and WvW is super stagnant it needs to be changed badly and its best to embrace it.

Not sure why people don’t understand that just because WvW is super stagnant doesn’t mean any random change is good. What WvW needs change that is designed to help WvW.

This change helps the larger group vs the smaller one, whether in open field fights, or getting into a tower that’s being sieged. Considering how unbalanced WvW is, helping the larger group is not what’s needed at this point.

What about hallowed ground’s pulsing stability? Will it grant a few stacks of short duration per pulse to prevent you being multi-CC’ed while you’re standing in the field? The point of the ability is to have psuedo-permanent stability so long as you remain in the confines of the AoE.

What about abilities like stomp? They grant 1s of stability so that you don’t get CC’ed while using your counter CC. Will it just give you a high amount of stacks for 1s to ensure it’s very difficult to CC you during that time?

What about transformation states, like plague form or rampage? How many stacks will they get?

Malediktus.3740:

The stability changes sound like a recipe for disaster for WvW

I’d recipe for fun: finally no more stability trains but well timed CCs could break a zerg even when outnumbered. Great in my eyes.

Karl McLain.5604:

You may ask: “But what about my boon removal skills? Will they only corrupt one instance of stability now?” To which we say: Your corruptions and boon removals will clear the boon completely, unless otherwise noted.

Interesting stuff! So about the corruption bit, how will that affect Fear? As it stands now, Stability corrupts into 1s of Fear. Will it now turn into X time / stack corrupted, or remain and that 1 second, regardless of stacks?

Gaaroth.2567:

Malediktus.3740:

The stability changes sound like a recipe for disaster for WvW

I’d recipe for fun: finally no more stability trains but well timed CCs could break a zerg even when outnumbered. Great in my eyes.

Alternatively, it means zergs will be even less inviting to players running professions that won’t be granting AoE stability to the rest of the group. Besides, even if you CC a zerg, you still have to kill it, which will still be hard if you’re vastly outnumbered.

In any case, the increased vulnerabilty to CC your zerg has will also apply to the enemy zerg, so it will be interesting to see what adjustments actually end up being made.

That’s a massive buff to Engineers. Good god…
Not only does that class rely on CC the most and will now able to stunlock more effectively, but Slick Shoes will be the only CC in the game that will bust through Stability.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Gaaroth.2567:

Malediktus.3740:

The stability changes sound like a recipe for disaster for WvW

I’d recipe for fun: finally no more stability trains but well timed CCs could break a zerg even when outnumbered. Great in my eyes.

Alternatively, it means zergs will be even less inviting to players running professions that won’t be granting AoE stability to the rest of the group. Besides, even if you CC a zerg, you still have to kill it, which will still be hard if you’re vastly outnumbered.

In any case, the increased vulnerabilty to CC your zerg has will also apply to the enemy zerg, so it will be interesting to see what adjustments actually end up being made.

A lot of people lying on the ground, then hitting f4 and walking away? I mean that’s how I picture my reaction to it.

I really want to like the changes coming but this honestly worries me. It sounds like someone had an idea they liked for sPVP and ran with it without giving PVE/WvW a second thought.

I’d really like to hear a dev response to some of the concerns in this thread.

For the new defiance bar:
How will traited interrupts affect the bar?
1) Will traits that give additional effect to a control effect, such as Mesmer Halting Strike trait (Domination 2) or Necromancer Terror (Curses 9), impart a greater effect on the bar?

2) If you have a trait that activates on an interrupt, such as Mesmer Confounding Suggestions (Domination 12), will using a control effect on the bar count as an interrupt proccing such a trait to further deplete the bar?

3) Will effects from traits, sigils (and food?) that increase durations of control effects, such as Necromancer Master of Terror (Soul Reaping 9), impact the bar more?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Jski.6180:

Malediktus.3740:

The stability changes sound like a recipe for disaster for WvW

All new things tend to sound this way but life is changes and WvW is super stagnant it needs to be changed badly and its best to embrace it.

Not sure why people don’t understand that just because WvW is super stagnant doesn’t mean any random change is good. What WvW needs change that is designed to help WvW.

This change helps the larger group vs the smaller one, whether in open field fights, or getting into a tower that’s being sieged. Considering how unbalanced WvW is, helping the larger group is not what’s needed at this point.

Well ya wvw is about larger groups what else should it be about? Its far more unbalanced when one boon allows ppl to move freely though a fight with no real counter other then removing that boon. So classes with no boon removal are unable to do a thing. Try to be an staff ele dropping a stun field or a line it dose nothing most of the time vs most ppl its boring and on very long cd.

At the same time these larges groups can no longer stab and forget they now need to time out there stabs a lot better and keep at eye on charges more so then duration.

This is no random update if it was they would not changes skills at all that use stab they would just have a set number for all stab and be done with it. Aoe stabs are going to be easier to remove then single self stabs so if you need to get a few ppl in to a group the self stab is better but you can still supplemented the self stab with aoe stab.

The hammer train meta will still be a thing we may even see some new classes get into it such as d/d ele if earth armor get the high charges set up seeing how ele has 2 ways to get this stab. That and nado may be a thing now to be an aoe stab stacking removing tool.

Plexxing.2978:

For the new defiance bar:
How will traited interrupts affect the bar?
1) Will traits that give additional effect to a control effect, such as Mesmer Halting Strike trait (Domination 2) or Necromancer Terror (Curses 9), impart a greater effect on the bar?

2) If you have a trait that activates on an interrupt, such as Mesmer Confounding Suggestions (Domination 12), will using a control effect on the bar count as an interrupt proccing such a trait to further deplete the bar?

3) Will effects from traits, sigils (and food?) that increase durations of control effects, such as Necromancer Master of Terror (Soul Reaping 9), impact the bar more?

That comply different thing.

Plexxing.2978:

For the new defiance bar:
How will traited interrupts affect the bar?
1) Will traits that give additional effect to a control effect, such as Mesmer Halting Strike trait (Domination 2) or Necromancer Terror (Curses 9), impart a greater effect on the bar?

2) If you have a trait that activates on an interrupt, such as Mesmer Confounding Suggestions (Domination 12), will using a control effect on the bar count as an interrupt proccing such a trait to further deplete the bar?

3) Will effects from traits, sigils (and food?) that increase durations of control effects, such as Necromancer Master of Terror (Soul Reaping 9), impact the bar more?

They’ve stated in that blog post that the new defiance bar will respect the duration of the CC. So for instance, a 3s stun from skull crack will drain more than a 0.5s daze from head shot.

As for things like halting strike and terror, these do not increase the effectiveness of the control effects, so the information released in the blog post implies that they won’t have any effect on the defiance bar. But we don’t know for sure whether this will be the case yet.

I don’t think they’ve stated whether CC’s will be treated equally, or whether different types have different weights for depleting the stability bar. For instance, I’m not sure if a 3s stun would drain more than a 3s daze, even though the former is technically more powerful.

Regardless, this thread was about the stability changes for players, not the defiance changes for boss-type creatures.

Booms.2594:

Foefaller.1082:

Booms.2594:

What are you doing about slickshoes to keep it from knocking off 10+ stacks of stability in under a second?

I assume the little fields would work like warding lines- you walk over it, you lose 1 stack, you walk over it again, you lose another.

Granted Slick shoes doesn’t actual require you to move at all to start falling over (something that still leaves me a bit flabbergasted) …but that seems like the most sane answer.

and theres actually like 20+ little fields that might each proc stability

Then… don’t run over all of them? 20+ fields should only show up if they popped Super Speed, and even then, I suspect most of the time you should be able to get out of the area without having to cross more than 3-4 of them. That might not be enough if it was an AoE stability skill, but with 10 stacks, that would still leave you with at least 5, which is more than the number of CCs your average celest engi would have after blowing Slick shoes.

Of course, again I’m hoping it’s like walls, and you have to pass over them to trigger (further) stability loss. If so, then the best solution will be to simply stand still.

Foefaller.1082:

Of course, again I’m hoping it’s like walls, and you have to pass over them to trigger (further) stability loss. If so, then the best solution will be to simply stand still.

Which is silly, because this means the engineer wins if they get you to stand still.

The issue with something like slick shoes is that the engineer can run around you, and any little twitch on your part causes a loss of a stability stack.

It will also be very potent in a WvW setting. If you managed to lay it under and incoming zerg, that’s potentially tons of stability gone in an instant. I’d have to double check, but I’m pretty sure you can activate slick shoes and use elixir S to dive into a zerg, so it would just spread underneath them and then you could walk out. Is the solution for the zerg to just stand still?

But hey, maybe this is just a doom-and-gloom phase we’re going through, and slick shoes won’t actually be that problematic. The last thing I want them to do is knee-jerk nerf slick shoes.

So the opposite of Stab will still be Fear i guess… Will the Duration timeof the Stability be converted to Fear duration alone or do the Stacks also effect the corrupting?

Will skills like Line of Warding still be uncapped in terms of the number of people they can affect? That seems like it would be very unbalanced for large-scale WvW.

YuiRS.8129:

That’s a massive buff to Engineers. Good god…
Not only does that class rely on CC the most and will now able to stunlock more effectively, but Slick Shoes will be the only CC in the game that will bust through Stability.

Also Stabilized Armor is suddenly becoming a god-like adept level trait for WvW.

Also Loaf of Saffron Bread will be way way way overpowered and basically needed now for WvW especially for classes that rely on shared having Stability from other class AoE abilities.

Artaz.3819:

Also Loaf of Saffron Bread will be way way way overpowered and basically needed now for WvW especially for classes that rely on shared having Stability from other class AoE abilities.

I read this as saying “the ghetto bread might actually be valued now”.

You can’t change an anti-CC mechanic without a balance pass on some of the CC skills. Just saying.

Tbh, anyone who plays WvW knows the hammer train meta isn’t even a thing and hasn’t been for a very long time. Youd have to play on a server with very bad people to see it still exist. The actual meta for large scale combat nowadays usually revolves around what it is for GvG, and that is stupid amounts of range pressure.

If you observe the open field fights of T1 and T2 where people are a bit more familiar with the current meta of fighitng, you’ll see that melee are actually the ones who have a hard time. It really depends but this change could completely eliminate melee in total. I mean a lot of fights now really just come down to who has more ranged pressure anyway.

The more I hear about this the more this sounds like a straight nerf to stability, without anything else changing to support that. This has me VERY worried.

I agree, making Stability more skillful is a good thing, and this change is probably the best for pre-made PvP where teams almost always have good stability uptime when it matters.

However, unless other control skills are reworked around this (which I am still hoping they will be), this will be a complete disaster in WvW and random Q PvP.

Both of those modes are already often “pop your stability at the right time or die horribly to the stun/knockdown/knockback/fear chain.” A straight nerf to Stability will only make this even worse.

For WvW, the Warrior Hammer train at the front of a Zerg with support from the other classes is already way too effective. Adding limited uses on stability only makes this AOE Stun spam on a 10s CD even better. This isn’t even considering a zerg tossing out a whole bunch of “soft” CCs first to strip stacks away as the range closes to make sure the Hammers can lay into the enemy with reduced stability stacks.

Crowd control is fun, I agree! Disabling effects and conditions add tactical depth and options to a fight. Outright lockdown however is incredibly banal to play as or against. There’s a balance to walk here, and last I checked GW2 wasn’t lacking for lockdown as is and certainly doesn’t need more of it.

EDIT – In response to SkylightMoon, I agree. Ranged pressure and DPS are big things in a Zerg, especially in an open field. But WvW is a lot more than open field fights, and things like keep assaults force close ranged fighting, or a smart commander can use terrain to do the same. I also think Hammer stun AOE is more of an example than the -only concern-. There are plenty of ranged CCs out there too.

And finally, I do believe ANet is trying to balance the game for all modes and servers, not just T1 WvW and pre-made PvP.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Tbh, anyone who plays WvW knows the hammer train meta isn’t even a thing and hasn’t been for a very long time. Youd have to play on a server with very bad people to see it still exist. The actual meta for large scale combat nowadays usually revolves around what it is for GvG, and that is stupid amounts of range pressure.

If you observe the open field fights of T1 and T2 where people are a bit more familiar with the current meta of fighitng, you’ll see that melee are actually the ones who have a hard time. It really depends but this change could completely eliminate melee in total. I mean a lot of fights now really just come down to who has more ranged pressure anyway.

True but Lightning Field + Spectral Wall + Line of Warding + Power Lock + etc. are part of day to day zerging in WvW. And if the changes are dramatic, Hammer training will be back in full swing (pun intended).

Sidenote, AoE Mesmer lock = wow (!) potential

Is was mentioned on the blog about the new Defiant system that Blind was considered a crowd control for that.

Will Stability also be changed so that Blind removes stacks? I hope not.

Hopefully fear will stack 1s per one stack of stability 10 stacks of stability + corrupt boon = aaaah, run away to the nearest cliff! (to encourage proper timing of stability )

Yamsandjams.3267:

Artaz.3819:

Also Loaf of Saffron Bread will be way way way overpowered and basically needed now for WvW especially for classes that rely on shared having Stability from other class AoE abilities.

I read this as saying “the ghetto bread might actually be valued now”.

Fair enough. If Stability boon sharing is nerfed (which it sure looks like it based on the example given here), Loaf of Saffron Bread will get a lot of use though.

Auesis.7301:

Is was mentioned on the blog about the new Defiant system that Blind was considered a crowd control for that.

Will Stability also be changed so that Blind removes stacks? I hope not.

I interpreted it as Defiant mechanics affects “monsters” and Stability mechanics affects player characters. Monster Defiant mechanics is just more generic and applies to Blind as well.

Bugabuga.9721:

Hopefully fear will stack 1s per one stack of stability 10 stacks of stability + corrupt boon = aaaah, run away to the nearest cliff! (to encourage proper timing of stability )

Nothing said indicates that intensity of Stability stacking equates to more Fear duration. It’s really no different than other stacking boons like Might that are converted to one stack (not multiple stacks) of Weakness.

But it would be good to know…

So it’s pseudo-defiance.

Neat.

Right, I can understand this change for PvP scenarios, and to reduce easy-mode in a lot of PvE content – but could some enemies have their crowd control capabilities looked at as well? Raptor/moa shrieks, anything with a knockdown charge attack and pretty much every Mordrem enemy in the Silverwastes are, as they stand, capable of removing a helluva lot of stacks of the new Stability.

now if u corrupt stability it will become fear, what will happen with the change? same as now, or just clean?

This sounds pretty good for PvP but it sounds like an overlook in PvE and a disaster for WvW.