Guild Wars 2

Donut.6914:

This sounds pretty good for PvP but it sounds like an overlook in PvE and a disaster for WvW.

Nobody cares about WvW.

Karl McLain.5604:

The goal of this change is to make the boon non-binary

What kind of reason is that? Why do you want to make it non-binary? why is that a good thing?

and to increase the benefit of using stability-granting abilities at the most opportune time in order to absorb the most control skills possible.

uhm, thats how it already worked. If it was your concern that players didnt really have to time it correctly, why didnt you just decrease the duration then?

To which we say: Your corruptions and boon removals will clear the boon completely, unless otherwise noted.

Uh-oh, this doesnt sound good If it was your concern that you didnt have to time stability correctly, why didnt you decrease the duration then?

edit: nvm, for reasons unknown i didnt consider stability stacking from multiple sources

This is completely unrelated, but have you ever thought about giving stunbreaks some very short stability aswell? like 1 stack for 2 seconds, so that youre not stunned again immediately after?

Karl McLain.5604:

Lytalm.5673:

Hey Karl, what about skills like Line of Warding in PvP. If you cross it multiple times in a row, will you lose a Stability stack each time or will you be immune to the effect for a few seconds?

Good question! Each time you cross the threshold, an instance of Stability would be removed.

So 1 line of warding can remove stacks from unlimited amount of people? How is this balanced? This fix would be fine if Ground Targeted spells were limited to the 5 target limit, but they are Not. If 80 players cross 1 line of Warding it removes 80 stacks of stability.
There needs to be away so that the line of warding expires after removing a total number of stacks of stability instead of letting it continue to remove stack infinitely. I use Line of warding as an example but all other Ground Targetd CC’s need to be adjusted to have a Max # o f targets as well.

With such high stacks it’s still not feasible to try and bust through it.

But it’s still a nerf because it doesn’t stack in duration anymore.

5 Guardians in a party all using Stand your Ground won’t get 25seconds of Stability at once anymore (5×5sec ignoring effects of boon duration). But they’ll get 15 stacks for 5seconds.
So carefully pacing out group Stability will have to be a thing instead of blanket spamming Stability to achieve such silly long duration you basically have a blanket CC immunity for (most of) the duration of a fight.

Stability will take better coordination and thoughtfulness to use effectively. That is a good change.

Donut.6914:

This sounds pretty good for PvP but it sounds like an overlook in PvE and a disaster for WvW.

I see it as a major improvement for WvW. This shut’s down some of the overpowered gingerbread man builds out there that are impossible to catch due to fast condi removal with stability.

The other thing that makes me really excited about this, is stability is no longer a permanent immunity(which was the only boon of it’s kind pre-HoT boons). This means it can be used in many weaker skills without it becoming unbalanced.

Karl McLain.5604:

You may ask: “But what about my boon removal skills? Will they only corrupt one instance of stability now?” To which we say: Your corruptions and boon removals will clear the boon completely, unless otherwise noted.

Does corrupting Stability still result in a fear effect, and if so, for how long?

Malediktus.3740:

The stability changes sound like a recipe for disaster for WvW

The people applying CC don’t agree .

Terrahero.9358:

So carefully pacing out group Stability will have to be a thing instead of blanket spamming Stability to achieve such silly long duration you basically have a blanket CC immunity for (most of) the duration of a fight.

Stability will take better coordination and thoughtfulness to use effectively. That is a good change.

It is not feasible to blanket spam stability to achieve near permanent cc immunity. Stability right now requires superior coordination and thoughtfulness to use effectively. What this change will do is weaken stability to the point that being more coordinated and thoughtful gives almost no advantage because every cast of a line by your enemies will be able to remove more stacks of stability than granted by every cast of stand your ground by your allies.

An example: if a 25v25 zerg fight happens and team A has 2 guards per party with stand your ground giving 5 stacks per cast, team A can give themselves a maximum of 10 stacks of stability per player. If team B has just 10 line skills across their 25 players, they can negate 100% of team A’s stability just by spamming their lines.

I really have to question the wisdom of allowing a mechanic to, through spamming, counter its own counter.

Karl McLain.5604:

Nike.2631:

Does corrupting Stability still result in a fear effect, and if so, for how long?

Nothing has changed with the effect of corruption or removal. Whether 1 stack or 25, the fear duration of corruption will be the same. All stacks are removed.

Thank you. That is exactly what I wanted to know .

Karl McLain.5604:

Nike.2631:

Karl McLain.5604:

You may ask: “But what about my boon removal skills? Will they only corrupt one instance of stability now?” To which we say: Your corruptions and boon removals will clear the boon completely, unless otherwise noted.

Does corrupting Stability still result in a fear effect, and if so, for how long?

Nothing has changed with the effect of corruption or removal. Whether 1 stack or 25, the fear duration of corruption will be the same. All stacks are removed.

please don’t ignore my completely serious question. 95% of good pvprs in this game are freaked out that slick shoes are going to be beyond ridiculously OP after this change. ARE YOU DOING SOMETHING?

Karl McLain.5604:

Nothing has changed with the effect of corruption or removal. Whether 1 stack or 25, the fear duration of corruption will be the same. All stacks are removed.

So since Stability stacks intensity now, will Blind become a stacking-intensity condition as well? ie. Can we stack 5 stacks of blind on someone and then they have to attack five times to clear it?

But if they used a brain it might become obvious that Stability doesn’t have to be able to counter infinite skills to still be useful. In fact it might be better if one button push didn’t cancel 10-20 button pushes from other players.

Dominik.5162:

Can you please stop balancing stuff just for sPvP, things going to be ridicoulos for Melee in WvW espeacially Guardians. The amount of CC (and stacked CC) is so high Stability will be very unreliable.
Somebody needs to use a brain before implementing sh** like this.

First off, please don’t go directly insulting the developers as it’s disrespectful and rude. You have no way of knowing exactly what they’ve tested and worked with to come up with these changes.

Secondly, this change is equally for WvW and a good one at that. Right now Guardians -and Warriors- are stacking stability so heavily that it is an impossibility to CC them during fights. The “zerg blobs” that go from gate to gate to gate all consist of a heavy amount of Guards/Warriors at the front with that anti-CC “all or nothing” push of theirs. By making this change it allows for groups of players to whittle away that anti-CC and start using theirs to defend a bit more.

I’m pretty sure change is in line with the other changes they’re going to be making to have defending be more beneficial to the individual as well as the overall realm.

How will stability on transformations, such as Lich, Plague, and Tornado work? Do they just get an absurd amount of stacks?

Nike.2631:

But if they used a brain it might become obvious that Stability doesn’t have to be able to counter infinite skills to still be useful. In fact it might be better if one button push didn’t cancel 10-20 button pushes from other players.

yes because you already need at least 2 guardians to get a decent stability uptime, which wont cover you fulltime. additionaly to this you also have the corrupts (at least dont let this remove all 25 stacks???).
Reading this thread a 50 men enemy zerg might only need to place a few guardian lines to remove every stability stack the melee has (25 men guild with normally 10-12 melee). And there is a huge amount of different CC that will strip stability also.
Worst change of a skill since release imo.

Siphaed.9235:

Dominik.5162:

Can you please stop balancing stuff just for sPvP, things going to be ridicoulos for Melee in WvW espeacially Guardians. The amount of CC (and stacked CC) is so high Stability will be very unreliable.
Somebody needs to use a brain before implementing sh** like this.

First off, please don’t go directly insulting the developers as it’s disrespectful and rude. You have no way of knowing exactly what they’ve tested and worked with to come up with these changes.

*Secondly, this change is equally for WvW and a good one at that. Right now Guardians -and Warriors- are stacking stability so heavily that it is an impossibility to CC them during fights. The “zerg blobs” that go from gate to gate to gate all consist of a heavy amount of Guards/Warriors at the front with that anti-CC “all or nothing” push of theirs. By making this change it allows for groups of players to whittle away that anti-CC and start using theirs to defend a bit more. *

I’m pretty sure change is in line with the other changes they’re going to be making to have defending be more beneficial to the individual as well as the overall realm.

This is not true at all. There’s no way you can stack stability so high it will be maintained 24/7. That said, there are many ways and soon to be even more to remove boons due the introduction of the revenant and specializations. You need a pretty specific rotation already and use your stability on the right timing will you not get caught by CC, let alone the cleanses for the immobilize spam you have currently going on.

After this patch you will see lots and lots of CC stacking on 1 spot. 25 stacks of stability (which will probably require at least 5 skills, which is pretty much 60-70% of your total stability skills in your party) will be ripped off in just a matter of time.

WvW is just gonna be 1 big ranged fight where guardian and warrior will be close to useless.

The change just seems quite unneccesary.

Anyone thinking how warding effects (slick shoes, ring, line) will remove infinite stability stacks at once, I recommend the tinfoil hats be re-equipped immediately to prevent an ArenaNet conspiracy.

It rips one stack of stability per instance of attempting to cross the warding effect, this means in practice, the very moment you get caught in it, simply move away and cease using stability stacks on it. These warding effects do have a short global cooldown if you examine them closely.

However, abilities that have only one stack of stability will not always counter Slick Shoes every time, like currently how the Ranger’s ‘Shared Anguish’ trait plays out. You have to employ GTFO tactics for the warding effect to not eat a second stability stack, as the warding abilities function right now.

I hope you guys don’t forget to change the Elite Inquests in Arah path 2. Stability is the only thing that defeats their multi-hit perma stun.

If this change means guild groups who fight zergs will be stunlocked because of the numerical difference, a large core of WvW players will quit the game.

Lord Kuru.3685:

If this change means guild groups who fight zergs will be stunlocked because of the numerical difference, a large core of WvW players will quit the game.

Too Late?

Naw really though it sounds like an awefull idea for WvW where getting a solid stab rotation is key to large clashes. I really can’t see how a smaller force would have much of a chance against the larger one now. If you can toss 3 guards per party you win, it’ll only strengthen the need for guards and strict meta GWEN setups.

THen yeah, PVE side… INquest Techs in Arah, the Golems in the Shield room for Thaumanova Reactor and I’m sure there are many more situations where this new stack system simply won’t hold up.

So instead of stability being OP, now Boon Removal is top dog?

Don’t get it…

Is it possible that we don’t truly have all the info needed to fully realize where stability fits into combat in the future? For WVW, which seems to be a hot button topic, we haven’t been able to get an idea of how a fully fleshed out Revenant fits into the picture. Nor do we have any idea on what the new specializations bring to the table or how the Defiance mechanic will be applied to players. We can speculate on what the stability change means for balance currently, but in all likelihood we will have to revisit our assessment as new information is released. And that might be pretty soon. So, please consider the transience of this particular concern.

Jerus.4350:

Lord Kuru.3685:

If this change means guild groups who fight zergs will be stunlocked because of the numerical difference, a large core of WvW players will quit the game.

Too Late?

Naw really though it sounds like an awefull idea for WvW where getting a solid stab rotation is key to large clashes. I really can’t see how a smaller force would have much of a chance against the larger one now. If you can toss 3 guards per party you win, it’ll only strengthen the need for guards and strict meta GWEN setups.

THen yeah, PVE side… INquest Techs in Arah, the Golems in the Shield room for Thaumanova Reactor and I’m sure there are many more situations where this new stack system simply won’t hold up.

I’d say it would make stab rotations harder to pull off, since a Stand your ground/ Indomitable Courage/Balanced Stance/etc used too early or late will end up stacking intensity with other stability skills, rather than duration, so you’re not going to have the coverage you once had. I’m not sure something that might require that level of coordination in combat will become meta, and you’ll probably find fewer groups running a vanguard like that. That might sound like a terrible thing for smaller guild groups, but you got to keep in mind that’s a blade that cuts both ways; just as that guild group/zerg might not have to skill to keep Stability up as much as possible now that it no longer stacks duration, the larger zergs are going to have to deal with that same problem as well.

Then you also have wall effects. While they might only hit a person once when walking over they have no limit to the number of people they can hit. A group or two of Necros (which would be the best, as Spectral Wall traited has the longest duration of any wall skill that applies a CC) and/or Staff Eles/Guardians could lay down several walls on top of each other, stripping several stacks of stability from an incoming zerg. Assuming the Elixir B example was the norm and you only get about 3 stacks with AoE stab skills, to get though those walls you’ll probably have to make the choice of either popping several of those skills, or popping one of your self Stability skills, which have a lot longer downtime than something like Stand your Ground. Such a thing might make defenses against larger zergs easier, if only to make them stop and wait for the walls to disappear (which, depending on the skill and traits involved, can almost be as long as a traited Balanced Stance) giving the defenders time to build/man more siege.

Chaith.8256:

Anyone thinking how warding effects (slick shoes, ring, line) will remove infinite stability stacks at once, I recommend the tinfoil hats be re-equipped immediately to prevent an ArenaNet conspiracy.

It rips one stack of stability per instance of attempting to cross the warding effect, this means in practice, the very moment you get caught in it, simply move away and cease using stability stacks on it. These warding effects do have a short global cooldown if you examine them closely.

However, abilities that have only one stack of stability will not always counter Slick Shoes every time, like currently how the Ranger’s ‘Shared Anguish’ trait plays out. You have to employ GTFO tactics for the warding effect to not eat a second stability stack, as the warding abilities function right now.

yeah im keeping my tinfoil hat on. you literally just proved yourself wrong that there ISNT an ICD on slickshoes.

Booms.2594:

Chaith.8256:

Anyone thinking how warding effects (slick shoes, ring, line) will remove infinite stability stacks at once, I recommend the tinfoil hats be re-equipped immediately to prevent an ArenaNet conspiracy.

It rips one stack of stability per instance of attempting to cross the warding effect, this means in practice, the very moment you get caught in it, simply move away and cease using stability stacks on it. These warding effects do have a short global cooldown if you examine them closely.

However, abilities that have only one stack of stability will not always counter Slick Shoes every time, like currently how the Ranger’s ‘Shared Anguish’ trait plays out. You have to employ GTFO tactics for the warding effect to not eat a second stability stack, as the warding abilities function right now.

yeah im keeping my tinfoil hat on. you literally just proved yourself wrong that there ISNT an ICD on slickshoes.

You’re the guy who asked what Arenanet was doing to Slick Shoes so that it won’t remove 10 stacks of stability in a second right?

Look at how it works now, have you seen Slick Shoes proc a knockdown on an enemy without stability more than 3 times? It’s not proccing 10 times a second while the person is knocked down. That would look hilarious. Just no.

I’m sure you can expend 3 stacks of stability if you pop a stability and literally run in and out of the warding effect, but proccing 10 times a second simply isn’t how it works.

Chaith.8256:

You’re the guy who asked what Arenanet was doing to Slick Shoes so that it won’t remove 10 stacks of stability in a second right?

Look at how it works now, have you seen Slick Shoes proc a knockdown on an enemy without stability more than 3 times? It’s not proccing 10 times a second while the person is knocked down. That would look hilarious. Just no.

I’m sure you can expend 3 stacks of stability if you pop a stability and literally run in and out of the warding effect, but proccing 10 times a second simply isn’t how it works.

I think you are a little confused. You are correct in saying that slick shoes cannot knock down a player that is already knocked down, which is why 3 times is the limit. But what if the game counts the knockdown, but the player isnt knocked down, so they are now eligible to eat the CC again. Thats the state you will be in if you have 10 stacks of stability, slick shoes will proc but you arent knocked down, so it can proc again, and again repeatedly.

Now as you said, the ranger trait does not reliably get you out of slick shoes, the question is, with what consistency can you escape slick shoes that is placed around you using this ranger trait? If the answer is that you cannot escape it at all, then it is potentially possible to lose several stacks of stability instantly to slick shoes.

Unless you know exactly what the pulse rate of slick shoes is, then that number sheds some light on the discussion. Without that number you cannot prove anything since we do not have the in game tools to test it yet.

Lord Kuru.3685:

If this change means guild groups who fight zergs will be stunlocked because of the numerical difference, a large core of WvW players will quit the game.

Yep, thats what I read out of it too.

Stability will work pretty much the same but now huge groups can burn through smaller groups stability simply by random AoE bombing and players facerolling the keyboard, instead of trying to do boon removal.

This is going to be bad to WvW and promote zerging even more than before.

Foefaller.1082:

Jerus.4350:

Lord Kuru.3685:

If this change means guild groups who fight zergs will be stunlocked because of the numerical difference, a large core of WvW players will quit the game.

Too Late?

Naw really though it sounds like an awefull idea for WvW where getting a solid stab rotation is key to large clashes. I really can’t see how a smaller force would have much of a chance against the larger one now. If you can toss 3 guards per party you win, it’ll only strengthen the need for guards and strict meta GWEN setups.

THen yeah, PVE side… INquest Techs in Arah, the Golems in the Shield room for Thaumanova Reactor and I’m sure there are many more situations where this new stack system simply won’t hold up.

I’d say it would make stab rotations harder to pull off, since a Stand your ground/ Indomitable Courage/Balanced Stance/etc used too early or late will end up stacking intensity with other stability skills, rather than duration, so you’re not going to have the coverage you once had. I’m not sure something that might require that level of coordination in combat will become meta, and you’ll probably find fewer groups running a vanguard like that. That might sound like a terrible thing for smaller guild groups, but you got to keep in mind that’s a blade that cuts both ways; just as that guild group/zerg might not have to skill to keep Stability up as much as possible now that it no longer stacks duration, the larger zergs are going to have to deal with that same problem as well.

Then you also have wall effects. While they might only hit a person once when walking over they have no limit to the number of people they can hit. A group or two of Necros (which would be the best, as Spectral Wall traited has the longest duration of any wall skill that applies a CC) and/or Staff Eles/Guardians could lay down several walls on top of each other, stripping several stacks of stability from an incoming zerg. Assuming the Elixir B example was the norm and you only get about 3 stacks with AoE stab skills, to get though those walls you’ll probably have to make the choice of either popping several of those skills, or popping one of your self Stability skills, which have a lot longer downtime than something like Stand your Ground. Such a thing might make defenses against larger zergs easier, if only to make them stop and wait for the walls to disappear (which, depending on the skill and traits involved, can almost be as long as a traited Balanced Stance) giving the defenders time to build/man more siege.

Question. Do you think it’s fun to have combat be mucha bout being unable to do anything and waiting till you can get back up?

The way I see it, yes it’s a blade that cuts both ways, but that isn’t a good thing. If both sides have people sitting on the ground going “GDI ARGH”

I really don’t see the idea of promoting the inability to play as a fun change.

Maybe CC needed a boost but realistically it was already quite effective as a stability check, you’d catch a lot of people who either weren’t solid on their stab rotations, got boon striped, or simply werne’t prepared.

I just really can’t see this ending well, again, it’s promoting a situation where people will be unable to perform actions very often, well unless they take every stability option, every stunbreak, and generally everything they can to counter the change. Meaning a slower less intense combat. Is that what people really want?

Dawdler.8521:

Lord Kuru.3685:

If this change means guild groups who fight zergs will be stunlocked because of the numerical difference, a large core of WvW players will quit the game.

Yep, thats what I read out of it too.

Stability will work pretty much the same but now huge groups can burn through smaller groups stability simply by random AoE bombing and players facerolling the keyboard, instead of trying to do boon removal.

This is going to be bad to WvW and promote zerging even more than before.

As if it wasn’t the same now if the huge group had a few Necros setting Well of Corruption below the smaller Zerg. That gets rid of current stability, too, and then fears them some. The real question is, will htey get redonculous amounts of stacks? If so, nothing would change much, except for not being able to run through CC like Rambo for 25 seconds + (if not stripped/corrupted), but only 5 seconds if not refreshed.

Shiki.7148:

Dawdler.8521:

Lord Kuru.3685:

If this change means guild groups who fight zergs will be stunlocked because of the numerical difference, a large core of WvW players will quit the game.

Yep, thats what I read out of it too.

Stability will work pretty much the same but now huge groups can burn through smaller groups stability simply by random AoE bombing and players facerolling the keyboard, instead of trying to do boon removal.

This is going to be bad to WvW and promote zerging even more than before.

As if it wasn’t the same now if the huge group had a few Necros setting Well of Corruption below the smaller Zerg. That gets rid of current stability, too, and then fears them some. The real question is, will htey get redonculous amounts of stacks? If so, nothing would change much, except for not being able to run through CC like Rambo for 25 seconds + (if not stripped/corrupted), but only 5 seconds if not refreshed.

Yes. Exactly. One rambo will no longer be able to survive running through CC. Before, it offered some degree of safety.

Lets say that a Thief starts a daggerstorm among 10 foes.

Before stability change, you want to hit him with boonremoval. Cant stun him otherwise, but you can of course try to overwhelm with just damage.

After stability change, just faceroll the keyboard to CC through the stability and kill him. No tactics, no thinking requiring. Just push every button available.

If you think this hurt organized groups engaging each other at equal terms or 2v2, 5v5, etc then you are badly mistaken. For those situations, stability will either run out just like today or they will have equal opportunity to burn through it.

Its only function is to kick the already disadvantaged player in the nuts. No idea why Anet want to do that, but after so many weird changes through the years I’ve stopped to ask.

Khenzy.9348:

You can’t change an anti-CC mechanic without a balance pass on some of the CC skills. Just saying.

Sure you can. You probably shouldn’t, but you can.

Chaith.8256:

Anyone thinking how warding effects (slick shoes, ring, line) will remove infinite stability stacks at once, I recommend the tinfoil hats be re-equipped immediately to prevent an ArenaNet conspiracy.

It rips one stack of stability per instance of attempting to cross the warding effect, this means in practice, the very moment you get caught in it, simply move away and cease using stability stacks on it. These warding effects do have a short global cooldown if you examine them closely.

However, abilities that have only one stack of stability will not always counter Slick Shoes every time, like currently how the Ranger’s ‘Shared Anguish’ trait plays out. You have to employ GTFO tactics for the warding effect to not eat a second stability stack, as the warding abilities function right now.

No, ring and line won’t. Slick Shoes fields can be stacked a huge number of times in a single area. Step on them once – all Stab gone and you’re dead.

YuiRS.8129:

Chaith.8256:

Anyone thinking how warding effects (slick shoes, ring, line) will remove infinite stability stacks at once, I recommend the tinfoil hats be re-equipped immediately to prevent an ArenaNet conspiracy.

It rips one stack of stability per instance of attempting to cross the warding effect, this means in practice, the very moment you get caught in it, simply move away and cease using stability stacks on it. These warding effects do have a short global cooldown if you examine them closely.

However, abilities that have only one stack of stability will not always counter Slick Shoes every time, like currently how the Ranger’s ‘Shared Anguish’ trait plays out. You have to employ GTFO tactics for the warding effect to not eat a second stability stack, as the warding abilities function right now.

No, ring and line won’t. Slick Shoes fields can be stacked a huge number of times in a single area. Step on them once – all Stab gone and you’re dead.

Here’s a fun trick to keep in mind: Slick shoes doesn’t spawn a new field until the engi completely leaves the previous field, far enough that a new field can spawn with no overlap (though they can overlap with a field that wasn’t spawned immediately before or after that field). That means with any soft CC you effectively reduce the amount of slick shoes fields an Engineer can stack in a single area.

You can test this out. Toggle walk, use slick shoes and start walking. Observe the number of fields how each of them look (which when you’re in walk/chill speed, is only 3) Then do it again, but with no walk and running back and forth zig-zaging over the fields you drop. The effects of those fields in the second attempt should be much thicker than when you’re just walking out three fields, with significant overlap with the effects.

It’s worth noting that the vast majority of Engineer builds you’ll fight using Slick shoes will only have one condi removal skill -Healing Turret- and the fact it’s also their heal skill means they aren’t going to pop it for a condition unless it’s a life-or-death scenario. That means if you can fire off a cripple/chill/immobilize when an Engineer is moving with slick shoes on, you directly reduce the number of slick shoes fields that they can spawn, and therefore the number of stability stacks that they will be able to remove with that skill.

Or, at least you will if/when each field strips one and only one stack of stability when entered.

Dear Karl,

The WvW community would like to know how many stacks from, “Stand Your Ground” and traited Virtue of Courage, please?

Svarty.8019:

Dear Karl,

The WvW community would like to know how many stacks from, “Stand Your Ground” and traited Virtue of Courage, please?

most definitely. This change will completely reshape wvw. Depending on how many stacks you guys give these 2 skills, it could be for teh worse.

I’d like to know if Anet checked all PVE-creatures and bosses.
There are enemies like raptors which hit three times with their stun? Two of them could remove 6 stacks…
In TA-Aetherpath, Spurs whirl attack: stabi can help to avoid getting pulled by it, but it hits very often. Is stabi still usefull there?
Imho: if a player uses stabi to help his teammates its good teamwork. If new stabi is not usefull enough and everyone has to dodge on his own GW2 weakens teamwork and helping out other players. Which is a bad thing imho.
Maybe Anet has to change those “many fast small hits” into fewer bigger hits, so stabi is still usefull. It would also increase the effect of aegis or blind, which is a good thing.
Sure, you can dodge it. But its a good thing to be able to help another player. Maybe because he’s too slow or he’s for the first time there. Teamwork should be able to compensate some personal misstakes – and I hope stabi will still be able to do so in the future.

Jockum.1385:

I’d like to know if Anet checked all PVE-creatures and bosses.
There are enemies like raptors which hit three times with their stun? Two of them could remove 6 stacks…
In TA-Aetherpath, Spurs whirl attack: stabi can help to avoid getting pulled by it, but it hits very often. Is stabi still usefull there?
Imho: if a player uses stabi to help his teammates its good teamwork. If new stabi is not usefull enough and everyone has to dodge on his own GW2 weakens teamwork and helping out other players. Which is a bad thing imho.
Maybe Anet has to change those “many fast small hits” into fewer bigger hits, so stabi is still usefull. It would also increase the effect of aegis or blind, which is a good thing.
Sure, you can dodge it. But its a good thing to be able to help another player. Maybe because he’s too slow or he’s for the first time there. Teamwork should be able to compensate some personal misstakes – and I hope stabi will still be able to do so in the future.

Dodge is the answer to the long hitting cc if you cant then you pay a price of losing stacks. You should never be comply safe and on your tows this is no WoW hit button receive rewards type of game. Sry pve is too easy as things stands it NEEDS to be harder and stab stacks is something needed becuse its way too auto win. So do as in the well know words of Piccolo from DBZ “Dodge!”

Stand The Wall.6987:

most definitely. This change will completely reshape wvw. Depending on how many stacks you guys give these 2 skills, it could be for teh worse.

It sounds like self stabs are going to be 10 stacks and aoe stabs are going to be 3 i am guessing persisting stabs will just be 1. So support stab going to be more of an add on support your going to still need to self support with stab to get into a fight. The gurad class is going to be in a weird places after the update with no true self stab its going to be more about blocking and being able to port into fights for them. Classes like war have a lot of self stab so they will be able to get into groups and knock ppl arone or just simply remove stab stacks for other classes to land the stuns leading to bombs. For back line casters necro are going to be the main all in bomb builds but they are going to be super week to gank and i think a new gank meta is coming and its going to be a major thing. Ele will still be ele the jack of all nado may get some good use though.

As things stands WvW is more of who acts last tends to win a fight making wvw into more of a waiting game. This stab changes may make wvw into who acts first in the ideal a stun counters a stun.

As things stands WvW is more of who acts last tends to win a fight making wvw into more of a waiting game. This stab changes may make wvw into who acts first in the ideal a stun counters a stun.

This.
Players who choose Melee classes mainly choose them to play Melee, and not to wait 5 Minutes for an opportunity to get some people down. The fast gameplay mechanics in this game is the reason why many players still play WvW.
The stability changes will completely remove this from WvW, only to get a waiting game as a result. (Just for the sake of sPvP)
The game will punish players who want to play in a Team (aka only ~3 stacks stability on SyG and such) and reward a more egoistic playstyle.
Make this change a PvE/sPvP only change, because there it actually makes sense.
I still think somebody needs to think this over before implementing the biggest skill change this game has seen in over 2 years!

I think the changes to Stability are a great idea, as long as the relevant skills are properly adjusted to account for the differences.

Count me in as a fan — if done right.

MysticHLE.7160:

I hope you guys don’t forget to change the Elite Inquests in Arah path 2. Stability is the only thing that defeats their multi-hit perma stun.

You can still likely skip them, especially with a thief around, but worst case scenario is you’ll have to clear them out and your speed run gets slightly slower.

This change would make a lot of sense to me if CC was generally underpowered, but it isn’t. In sPvP it is very powerful, as it is in WvW. In PvE is is generally not good because the bosses have defiant (and this is already changing, due to new defiant mechanic).

I really don’t get the need to nerf to stability. If some long stability skills (like lich or rampage as one maybe?) are too powerful, just nerf them. The class with the most access to stability (guardian) is not exactly wrecking spvp face. Warriors are probably the most annoying with it.

This is also NOT a straight increase to skill level or to counterplay (the reason being repeatedly given). Now n00bs who spam CC without checking to see if their opponent has stability are potentially REWARDED. It will make walls much more powerful, but with less skill involved. Put wall down, stand on it.

If you thought CC was not good enough (news to me), give out some more boon stripping and nerf some of the long stab skills. This change makes no sense to me, unless there are a ton of new balance changes in HoT.

Jski.6180:

Dodge is the answer to the long hitting cc if you cant then you pay a price of losing stacks. You should never be comply safe and on your tows this is no WoW hit button receive rewards type of game.

GW2 should be a teamplay, not a singleplayer. You can’t help other players to dodge.
(and dodging IS hitting a button…)

What should I do with teammates which get hit by Spur and keep dying?
Should I kick them out of the dungeon? At a 2/3 done dungeon?
That’s not very nice. I never tried to solo Spur and I don’t think I’m able to. I don’t think its enjoyable for players if they lay dead on the ground and have to watch the others defeating the boss. Knowing they were completly useless.

As an example: a former guildmate of me played in GW1 a melee fireele. It was a uncommon build and eles died fast getting too close to enemies. I knew he liked the build, so I used a protective enchanment for him. He could run his favourite build, was a usefull teammember, I helped him which was a good feeling. Win-Win.
In GW2 something like that is not possible. You can help a little bit, but someone who gets hit by everything and is not able to dodge will keep dying. Its not a good idea to rezz such a player, he will die again instantly. So you have to do it with 4 players. Or less. Or replace him.
Stabi is an ench which can help other players out. I hope it is still having this use in the future. I prefer to use stabi to help another player instead of having to replace him with a better player.

Imho new Stabi should still be able to help other players. But it won’t work if you get hit by 5362656 hits per second. So: Anet should check if this happens somewhere and find a solution. For example replace it with something which hits once per second so you get 3-5 seconds to dodge when you got stabi.
Aegis has the same issue – this is why aegis is not a good skill for bad groups, it favours good groups which kill enemies fast and are able to dodge = get less hits in a fight.

So you’r forcing more blobbing into WvW.. Greeaaaaat!!!

Anet youre realy starting to kitten people off.
Can you atleast bother to test how the major skill change in WvW will affect the gameplay? Have some testing weeks the same way you tested with no white swords and PPK being completely active?
It realy feels like most of the people in anet who make these change dont know nothing about WvW.

Now i command regulary in WvW and allready i can see what scenarios this will bring in:

Pushing through a chokehold (tunnel, narrow path etc) will result in the attacking group being punished hard by the people who are choking the chokehold. For example in Stonemist it will give a massive bonus to the people who are defending the lord room from a blob that wants to push in. Now give some upper hand numbers to the defending group, throw some extra arrowcarts into it and you will be guaranteed that who ever wants to push in, massive amount of players will get killed on the attacking side if they make a push.
Its allready hard enough to push through chokeholds with the current stability skill mechanic when it comes to having equal or lower numbers then the enemy blob.

Also this change in the mechanic will support the “the bigger the blob, the more it will destroy” meta even more. Meaning many raids with lower numbers will be punished simply cause they do not have the numbers. This will not affect gold tier servers too much but silver and lower tiers will feel the upcoming pain.
I can understand that this change in sPvP or in PVE makes sense but when it comes to WvW, it will be utterly ridicilous.

Current ways to counter stability- chill, immobilize and if youre fast then throw in the early confusion before enemy player activates stability.

I realy realy hope that somebody from Anet reads this next part- If you want this change not to make WvW people angry then figure out a way to solve the “pushing through chokehold without getting shred to pieces in the first 5 seconds cause of the stability change” problem.

I would be realy dissapointed if this change would be implanted blindly before testing anything out. Afterall stability is THE skill in WvW.

Edit: Im kinda feeling that the importance of guardians will rise in WvW due to Judges Intervention (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Judge%27s_Intervention) if this change takes place. Afterall this is the only heavy class with teleport and since stability will be made useless in chokeholds, then it feels like the only way to push anywhere is via teleportation or by portaling (good luck finding active mesmers in silver tier blobs).

RoseofGilead.8907:

X T D.6458:

Heres a question for anet…

Have any of you used stability?

Have any of you been immobilized?

Now tell me which of these need to be freaking nerfed

Thanks for once again proving you have no clue towards balancing, and dont give a crap about wvw.

Why would immobilize need a nerf?

Immobilize has 2 broken problems:
1. Being Immobilized when in mid-air means you cannot use most skills while in mid-air, or drop whatever bundle you are carrying(cannot drop bundle in mid-air) until Immobilized is over. This acts just like free Stun, for very very long durations, and the duration stacks. So if you get Immobilized while you are leaping, you are dead meat.

2. Being Immobilized when you are at the surface of water, where you have no skill, no stunbreaker, no condition removal(except passive ones from trait or sigil). You cannot do anything except wait for death at this point.

The first situation applies in all game modes. The second only applies in WvW and PvE.

For WvW and PvE,
The biggest question is what are they going to do about Stand Your Ground and Hallowed Ground, which are the 2 most important skills for group Stability.

bugs: is a feature, not a bug
nerfs: is a feature not a nerf
stupidity: is a feature not stupidity

Who complained about Stability being OP please stand up and be counted.

This should make things interesting in WvW. Although I see some sentiment that the bigger the blob the better the survivability of the masses, but I see it as which ever side has more necros and mesmers will come out on top. Two zergs meet and whoever can lay down the heaviest boon stripping and corruption fields will win out. Engineers will definitely see more use in WvW and will pull the meta away from the GWEN we’ve been seeing for the last couple years.

I would expect that open field engagements won’t be a quick burst of action and one side breaks the other. Zergs would have to be very careful about how they engage and hoard their stability stacks and boon corruption fields. I could also see more skilful play with Lightning fields (Static field, Tornado, Elixir X) with Leap finishers to get the Daze
to strip stab stacks.

Ele drops a static field on a few enemy players, they pop stabs, warrs switch to swords and Savage Leap, Rangers could switch to GS and Swoop, etc.

I can kinda understand the worries for wvw but I think players will adapt and rather than seeing even bigger zerg fests, we may see less in fact.

Since this topic has red posts I’m hoping this will get noticed. Currently if I hit a defiant mob with a cc attack and I have lightning rod traited, I proc lightning rod even though I didn’t actually inflict cc on the mob. It appears that the new stability stacks are going to be functionally identical to the current defiant stacks, so I’m worried that this may have been overlooked. If it has, lightning rod eles will become hilariously overpowered in WvW.