Guild Wars 2

“On-Kill sigils (those sigils which trigger when you kill something) have received an update as well. The functionality of each sigil has changed so that killing a player is worth five stacks of a sigil in any game mode, while killing a monster only grants one stack. This type of sigil will have more strict rules applied on them, so that a player will no longer be able to gain 25 stacks and then un-equip the sigil.”

The buff to 2-handed weapon dual sigils was nice, but this nerf kinda almost negates the buff =/

So, if you weapon swap will you lose your stacks, or will that only be caused by completely unequipping the weapon?

As a staff spamming guardian in WvW, this won’t affect me much

My guess is yeah, if you swap weapons, you will lose stacks. They don’t want us using stacking sigils purely as a means to gain +250 extra stat.

edit: ‘swap’ weapons as in switching it out manually with a new weapon.

Sigil of Rage isn’t a stacking sigil, so not really an issue.

Removing the shared cooldown with other proc sigils will make it a viable option though, especially paired on a two handed weapon with something else.

All in all, great changes to sigils across the board.

Blaeys.3102:

Sigil of Rage isn’t a stacking sigil, so not really an issue.

Removing the shared cooldown with other proc sigils will make it a viable option though, especially paired on a two handed weapon with something else.

All in all, great changes to sigils across the board.

no one was talking about sigil of rage……lol (did you just get that from the title? O.o)

arenanet hast learned absolutely nothing. they are destroying their own game. exactly what i expected when the devs said in the livestream “6/6 bonus of ranger runes is doing nothing”

all they are doing with this patch is reducing options.
i mean guards or warriors can simply use a stacking sigill in the new 2-handed weapon slot. but eles and engis, thiefs, rangers and mesmer are pretty much kittened.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It took them long enough to fix this exploit. I don’t see how anyone can not see a problem with how this was. I mean an extra +250 to a stat just for having an extra weapon in your inventory? That’s totally absurd.

I’m glad they finally got around to fixing this.

i dont think you even understand what the word exploit means. other than that you have to play well to keep 25 stacks. because death = stacks are gone.

people like you need to wake up.

Meglobob.8620:

OverlordOutpost.5961:

You have two weapons, a Greatsword and a Staff.
You have Sigil of Bloodlust on your Greatsword.
You gain 25 stacks of Bloodlust using it and swap to your Staff.
You STILL have 25 stacks of bloodlust.

Now if you -completely unequip your Greatsword- for another Greatsword. You lose those 25 stacks because the sigil is no longer equipped anywhere on you.

This is how it should always have been.

^^^This is how it will work.

Anet are just ending a bug/exploit which loads of players, particularly in WvW have been using for 18 months. Essentially using 3 weapon sigils, you get the +25 stack then swap in another sigil but still keep stack, thus effectively having 3 sigils.

I suppose for those exploiters its a nerf just using 2 sigils now instead of 3…lol

it was working as intended by design. so no, it wasnt an exploit.

Ouch.. well this makes on kill sigils “useless”… a constant buff of stats vs better on swap/crit sigils what havoc is this going to make. Makes x amount of my off weapons useless for most part to me.

In oversight it makes sense but ><"

If they mean by changing the weapon out completely (as in not equipping), I can see how this will affect people. It makes sense to me, that if you’re not using a weapon that grants a certain type of bonus, you shouldn’t get the bonus.

Though it will make classes that don’t have more than 1 weapon equip (Elementalists/Engineers) slightly more annoying, as they only have one option).

Lambent.6375:

So, if you weapon swap will you lose your stacks, or will that only be caused by completely unequipping the weapon?

Pressumably it would only de-stack if you unequip the weapon, otherwise certain classes are kittened.

As I gather, dual 2h weapons will gain a extra sigil while it doesnt matter for 2h+1h and 1h+1h will loose 1 sigil. Basicly, it all become equal – 3 sigils + 1 stacker.

Stacking 5 per kill will make it alot faster to stack in WvW however, as you’ll be at full 25 stacks if 5 players engage 5 players and win the small battle, let alone everyone having 25 stacks in zerg vs zerg.

I see this as a good change.

NoTrigger.8396:

arenanet hast learned absolutely nothing. they are destroying their own game. exactly what i expected when the devs said in the livestream “6/6 bonus of ranger runes is doing nothing”

Yes, removing illogical stat-increasing exploits is completely ruining the game.

If you don’t currently have a stacking sigil on a weapon equipped in any of your weapon sets, should you really be allowed to keep that sigil’s benefits?

No. They’ve made the right move here.

KazNaka.4718:

Blaeys.3102:

Sigil of Rage isn’t a stacking sigil, so not really an issue.

Removing the shared cooldown with other proc sigils will make it a viable option though, especially paired on a two handed weapon with something else.

All in all, great changes to sigils across the board.

no one was talking about sigil of rage……lol (did you just get that from the title? O.o)

I was trying – and failed – to be funny.

It amuses me how people (not you – I get the point of your post) focus on the single tiny nerf (which isnt really a nerf in the grand picture with all the huge buffs) and ignore all of the major changes that will, most likely, result in everyone being more effective.

Taking away the shared cooldowns is enough by itself to make a huge difference (with sigil of rage, by chance, being an example of that).

But, at least they put one tiny thing in there for the naysayers to use to declare the end of the world is nigh once again. It’s really nice of ArenaNet to think of them and give them a little something in the midst of everything else.

All it means is you can’t unequip a weapon after building up stacks, which frankly should have been how it worked in the first place.

I see a lot of confusion up in here. Some are getting it right though.

Basically guys, let me break it down for ya. Stacking sigils (bloodlust, etc) will definitely drop in value as you can not use it purely for the +250 stat and swap out a completely different weapon anymore.

While it does make sense, it pretty much screws over all those dungeon runners who has an extra set of weapons JUST for stacking sigil (sometimes even 2 extra weapons just to stack faster).

This change if implemented would be completely unfair to elementalists and engineers who can only have 2 sigils at a time instead of 4.

The other six professions can swap to their on kill set as enemies die to build stacks then swap back to their primary set.

Shockwave.1230:

This change if implemented would be completely unfair to elementalists and engineers who can only have 2 sigils at a time instead of 4.

The other six professions can swap to their on kill set as enemies die to build stacks then swap back to their primary set.

umm no…it would affect all classes. No matter what class, you could still swap out the weapons manually (as in un-equip, then equip primary set)

Lambent.6375:

So, if you weapon swap will you lose your stacks, or will that only be caused by completely unequipping the weapon?

This is the million dollar question we all should want answered.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Lambent.6375:

So, if you weapon swap will you lose your stacks, or will that only be caused by completely unequipping the weapon?

This is the million dollar question we all should want answered.

it’s pretty much already answered whether you choose to ignore it or not. It’s the only logical answer based on what they said. Re-read the bold parts of the quote.

1. ANet claims they want to improve the skill of the playerbase.
2. Nerf a skill-based mechanic where you are rewarded with a stacking stat modifier by keeping yourself alive

????

They specifically say UN-EQUIP not swap. So swapping weapons will be fine, but un-equipping will lose you the stacks. This makes sense to me and seems fair enough – you don’t get any benefit or increase to stats from any other piece of gear when it’s just sitting in your inventory.

You have two weapons, a Greatsword and a Staff.
You have Sigil of Bloodlust on your Greatsword.
You gain 25 stacks of Bloodlust using it and swap to your Staff.
You STILL have 25 stacks of bloodlust.

Now if you -completely unequip your Greatsword- for another Greatsword. You lose those 25 stacks because the sigil is no longer equipped anywhere on you.

This is how it should always have been.

This change was mentioned about 6 months ago, back when they also talked about 2 handed sigils in the PvP forums. It was basically a free 3rd sigil and they wanted to change that.

Would be nice if a dev clarified this, before people overreact and start claiming things as facts.

But of course, even after a clarification, people will still spread the rumor..

This is also a bit of a middle finger to Engies and Eles

It took them long enough to fix this exploit. I don’t see how anyone can not see a problem with how this was. I mean an extra +250 to a stat just for having an extra weapon in your inventory? That’s totally absurd.

I’m glad they finally got around to fixing this.

Its not a middle finger to engies and eles. Its call balance guys.

Ele and Engies have access to Attunement/Kits. So they need to give up something to balance, which is their secondary weapons with sigils.

If Ele and Engies would have access to their Attunements/kits AND to a secondary set of weapons with sigils. Then it would be unbalance.

OverlordOutpost.5961:

You have two weapons, a Greatsword and a Staff.
You have Sigil of Bloodlust on your Greatsword.
You gain 25 stacks of Bloodlust using it and swap to your Staff.
You STILL have 25 stacks of bloodlust.

Now if you -completely unequip your Greatsword- for another Greatsword. You lose those 25 stacks because the sigil is no longer equipped anywhere on you.

This is how it should always have been.

^^^This is how it will work.

Anet are just ending a bug/exploit which loads of players, particularly in WvW have been using for 18 months. Essentially using 3 weapon sigils, you get the +25 stack then swap in another sigil but still keep stack, thus effectively having 3 sigils.

I suppose for those exploiters its a nerf just using 2 sigils now instead of 3…lol

I guess it makes sense. The buff on un-shared sigil cooldowns is nice. But now, people will have to choose bloodlust OR some other sigil. If you want +250 stat, you will have to sacrifice a sigil slot. So either lose 250 stat or a sigil slot. This is what I meant by “the nerf negates the buff”. I’m purely speaking from a past-future point of view. I’m sure new players will get the change and not really lose anything.

So….

If I were to put a stacking sigil on my underwater weapon, could I stack underwater and keep them?

Not that it’s particularly practical, just spitballing

Berengar.6951:

So….

If I were to put a stacking sigil on my underwater weapon, could I stack underwater and keep them?

Not that it’s particularly practical, just spitballing

good point. I think you can…I mean you’re not un-equipping the underwater weapon or anything…but at the same time, which dungeon has lots of underwater mobs while still being a primarily land-based dungeon?

If you Unequip your weapon it will disappear. If you use weapon switching, while having it in a weapon set/slot you won’t lose it.

I care about WvW not dungeons :P

This is a very bad change in my opinion. I’m coming from a PVE/dungeon perspective and I really don’t like it as player have even less things to do in the dungeons after this patch. Switching weapons all over the place during a run was a great part of the fun for me. This simplifies the game in a negative way. It was just an option and you take it away …

Zoid.2568:

If you Unequip your weapon it will disappear. If you use weapon switching, while having it in a weapon set/slot you won’t lose it.

you bring up another good point that I completely forgot. You could just equip the stacking weapons on a primary set, then swap to a secondary set w/o losing the stacks. You’d just lose that extra set (that you usually used for range/mobility weapons).

KazNaka.4718:

Zoid.2568:

If you Unequip your weapon it will disappear. If you use weapon switching, while having it in a weapon set/slot you won’t lose it.

you bring up another good point that I completely forgot. You could just equip the stacking weapons on a primary set, then swap to a secondary set w/o losing the stacks. You’d just lose that extra set (that you usually used for range/mobility).

Not really. I have a Warrior build and i use GS/S+SH and i use both sets to do damage and for mobility/defense.
Having two on-kills sigils active will be awesome.

Its a good change. Having any sigil persist after literally removing it from your character was a rather stupid choice to begin with. If you take it off, you shouldn’t get the benefits. Technically a “nerf” from the way its worked since launch, but it should have never worked that way to begin with and I’m kind of shocked it took them this long to fix it considering how fast they usually smash such things which give an unfair / undeserved advantage.

Elestian.6134:

If you don’t currently have a stacking sigil on a weapon equipped in any of your weapon sets, should you really be allowed to keep that sigil’s benefits?

No. They’ve made the right move here.

No they didn’t, not unless they plan changing Elementalists and Engineers.

I think most people as his had their primary go-to weapon in WvW while their secondary had the sigil that built of these stacks. I’m sure people carried additional weapons to swap out but I think most just left their “on-hit” effect sigil on their swapped weapon.

Now an elementalist who can’t equip 2 weapons, how exactly does this put them on a level playing field with say a Warriror or guardian? Warrior GS 2 sigils, sword/shield on swap with on hit effects (now they have 3 sigils).

If they are going to implement a change like this, it needs to pertain to weapon swaps as well.

Zoid.2568:

KazNaka.4718:

Zoid.2568:

If you Unequip your weapon it will disappear. If you use weapon switching, while having it in a weapon set/slot you won’t lose it.

you bring up another good point that I completely forgot. You could just equip the stacking weapons on a primary set, then swap to a secondary set w/o losing the stacks. You’d just lose that extra set (that you usually used for range/mobility).

Not really. I have a Warrior build and i use GS/S+SH and i use both sets to do damage and for mobility/defense.
Having two on-kills sigils active will be awesome.

right again _ you might as well slap the stacking sigils on your mobility weapons and swap to main combat weapons when it’s full. Couple of months of not playing has made me a bit rusty x_x

Yes, I can see now how eles and engies are screwed over by this change.

NoTrigger.8396:

arenanet hast learned absolutely nothing. they are destroying their own game.

Funny. I’d have said stagnation was destroying the game.

i mean guards or warriors can simply use a stacking sigill in the new 2-handed weapon slot. but eles and engis, thiefs, rangers and mesmer are pretty much kittened.

Really? How? Walk me through it.

it was working as intended by design. so no, it wasnt an exploit.

If that were true, why would they change it?

Ele’s and Engi’s may have kits which people think “may” make up for it, but lets get real here…

There is still push-back to this day in WvW about how OP it is to stack Power/Cond, and Vitality stacks from killing guards. Even a little more outrage now that they can’t be removed on downed state (though I like that change). It seems a lot of people agree that having such buffs is somewhat over-powering.

If this is the case, then allowing only 4 classes to attain these buffs without having to give up anything significant in return does not put the other 2 on a level playing field. One of those classes is dreadfully hurting for vitality.

good. on kill sigils are getting nerfed. it was a lame mechanic to put in the first place.

Nike.2631:

Really? How? Walk me through it.

For eles&engies: they have 2 slots for sigils, others have 4. As a warrior, for instance, you can get force, energy, battle and bloodlust, as an ele just force and bloodlust.

If that were true, why would they change it?

So every change they made was fixing exploits? :o

Omg, you guys are ridiculous. Saying it requires skill to kill AI? Give me a break. You know you went out and killed the UP monsters until you got 25 stacks and then changed weapons or w/e and started abusing it. That crap needed to get changed. Obviously the people saying that are the ones who were doing it. I play Ele btw.

I am kinda dissapointed with the changes they showed and the only reason I’m dissapointed is because they told us everything that they showed today several months ago. I was expecting something new. The Ele changes are the same ones they said on the stream, they could’ve given a few different ones. W/e, hopefully they enlighten us on the stream here in a little over an hour.

Nike.2631:

Really? How? Walk me through it.

haviz.1340:

For eles&engies: they have 2 slots for sigils, others have 4.

DUH. Now read the statement I was responding to and COUNT THE PROFESSIONS BEING LISTED. Do you see two, or do you see FIVE?

Nonsense argument is nonsense.

If that were true, why would they change it?

So every change they made was fixing exploits? :o

No, but some of them were.

I think the better question is for someone to explain how exactly the extra kits or attunements makes up for loss in sigils.

I’ll comment on the elementalist as I don’t play an engineer (yet). If this change didn’t go through, I would carry an extra weapon for bloodlust stacks, while my main weapon would have sigil of fire and probably the sigil of force.

If the change goes through, I’ll probably carry sigil of fire and force on my main weapon. I now come across a warrior who may now be stacking both power and toughness, while their remaining 2 slots are carrying say sigil of fire and force (for arguments sake).

Where is exactly in any of the elementalists attunement options does this combat the above? If we were already at a significant advantage in the game’s current state because we can in fact keep on stacks while changing weapons, would people not have said so? I don’t remember reading anywhere that Elementalists were OP and needed nerfs, so obviously keeping stacks after changing weapons hasn’t been a problem. I do however read quite frequently that Warriors and Guardians are OP, and are also your go-to meta for WvW. How is this helping build diversity, let alone encouraging players to play other classes?

DeadlySynz.3471:

Ele’s and Engi’s may have kits which people think “may” make up for it, but lets get real here…

There is still push-back to this day in WvW about how OP it is to stack Power/Cond, and Vitality stacks from killing guards. Even a little more outrage now that they can’t be removed on downed state (though I like that change). It seems a lot of people agree that having such buffs is somewhat over-powering.

If this is the case, then allowing only 4 classes to attain these buffs without having to give up anything significant in return does not put the other 2 on a level playing field. One of those classes is dreadfully hurting for vitality.

Yes, but Eles can swap attunements(therefore on-swap-sigils) way more often than any other class.

It comes down to whether the on-swap sigils have a cooldown or not anymore(previously had 9 seconds cooldown). If they dont, then Eles can get a lot of stacks of might from sigil of battle, or a lot of endurance from sigil of energy. I would say that if there is no cooldowns, eles would definitely have a different kind of advantage(more procs of the same sigil, less variety in sigils).

If the cooldowns still exist though, then we need a new system. For example, Eles can have 2 weapon slots just like everyone else and also swap weapons, but only to the same weapon. Eles could have a staff in each weapon slot(or scepter/dagger in each weapon slots respectively, etc) and each of the staff can have different stats, sigils and infusions(basically just like equipping a greatsword in both weapon sets of a guardian). That way they dont get extra skills, but get all the other benefits of sigils.

NoTrigger.8396:

i mean guards or warriors can simply use a stacking sigill in the new 2-handed weapon slot. but eles and engis, thiefs, rangers and mesmer are pretty much kittened.

Engies and Eles are understandable, but how are the other professions kittened? Even if they use single handed weapons, they still get two sigils a weapon set.

That has caught my attention too with the post.

What I would like to know is: If engineers use kits, would swapping out to that kit remove your stacks every time?

I would certainly hope not, and would only remove if I actually swapped out my actual weapon. (pistol/rifle/shield)