Guild Wars 2

Stop making builds.

Playing too much with numbers and not enough brainstorming play styles.

Adjusting numbers = Viability
Adjusting numbers =/= Play style

Stop giving weapons builds, start giving them play styles.

Am I right or wrong?

Build changes your playstyle

Your playstyle determines your build

They’re the same thing bud

No Walking.6349:

Build changes your playstyle

Your playstyle determines your build

They’re the same thing bud

I disagree.

I do agree that one compliments the other.

Can’t have various play styles without different builds.
Can’t have various builds without different play styles.

But ArenaNet is trying to add more/change builds in a system that already has a lot.

So you have an imbalance, too many builds, not enough play styles.

I don’t think they’re the same thing either. I have a playstyle that can use many different builds. I don’t play the game around a build…I make a build around my play style.

A lot of people have said that the professions in this game are too similar because everyone can do the same sorts of things.

Those people are looking at mechanics, not flavor. I’m pretty sure this is the type of thing the OP is talking about.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t think they’re the same thing either. I have a playstyle that can use many different builds. I don’t play the game around a build…I make a build around my play style.

A lot of people have said that the professions in this game are too similar because everyone can do the same sorts of things.

Those people are looking at mechanics, not flavor. I’m pretty sure this is the type of thing the OP is talking about.

Exactly.

Guild Wars 2 has a lot of game mechanics but not nearly enough ways to use those mechanics.

The design team is looking at it all wrong, you have plenty of mechanics to make builds with. You can number crunch all day to make balanced builds but in the end, viability doesn’t mean fun, it just mean it works.

Now if the items you are balancing is fun and you want to make it viable, that is a different story but

Jonathan Sharp

• We’re looking to improve shouts so that support via shouts is more viable.
• We increased the power of many support skills which weren’t seeing much play.
• To help Rangers support allies, we increased the ability ranger pets have to support allies.
• Venomous Aura was very difficult to use, as the radius was fairly tight. We’ve now increased that radius a bit
• We’re working on the staff in an effort to make it a stronger support weapon, and we also improved the conjure weapons so that they’re stronger for support.
• To stay in line with the support theme, we wanted to find ways the Mesmer could support allies.
• The Blood line underwent some tweaks, as it’s something that Necromancer players often feel is a lacking trait line.

It’s all about making mechanics viable.

Nothing about play styles.

As a game designer, you should look back and say, “is this fun?” instead of “is this optional?”

However, you want to make combat diverse and interesting, you must add play styles to the mix as well.

Don’t expect ‘anything’ from him or the false promises they’ve been repeating for over a year now. Balance has been an unchecked failure since launch, and many classes still only have ONE viable build.

Zegai.8256:

Don’t expect ‘anything’ from him or the false promises they’ve been repeating for over a year now. Balance has been an unchecked failure since launch, and many classes still only have ONE viable build.

I don’t know any professions that only have one viable build. Maybe they only have one viable build if you’re building for ONLY efficiency, which I think is the OP’s point.

I’m sure none of the builds I use regularly, you’d consider viable…but I still beat dungeons and fractals with them on a regular basis. I’m sure it takes me longer to run a dungeon than it takes you. I just don’t care.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t know any professions that only have one viable build. Maybe they only have one viable build if you’re building for ONLY efficiency, which I think is the OP’s point.

I’m sure none of the builds I use regularly, you’d consider viable…but I still beat dungeons and fractals with them on a regular basis. I’m sure it takes me longer to run a dungeon than it takes you. I just don’t care.

Considering you can beat dungeons and fractals with characters below lvl 80, I don’t think that’s a viable benchmark. I pvp a lot, so I’ve heard all the false hype and promises in the world from certain devs that are incapable of following through. PVE is designed to be casual and relatively easy so that anyone can pick it up and complete the content. It’s unfortunate that a majority of the game’s content drives players towards zerker gear. As far as being able to pvp on the same build you can faceroll pve content with, you’ll find your options drop drastically, moreso for certain classes. Even though hardly anyone plays it, pvp IS one of the 3 realms of gw2 gameplay. The fact that they haven’t been able to allow for more than 1-2 builds for the vast majority of classes is a disgrace.

Zegai.8256:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t know any professions that only have one viable build. Maybe they only have one viable build if you’re building for ONLY efficiency, which I think is the OP’s point.

I’m sure none of the builds I use regularly, you’d consider viable…but I still beat dungeons and fractals with them on a regular basis. I’m sure it takes me longer to run a dungeon than it takes you. I just don’t care.

Considering you can beat dungeons and fractals with characters below lvl 80, I don’t think that’s a viable benchmark. I pvp a lot, so I’ve heard all the false hype and promises in the world from certain devs that are incapable of following through. PVE is designed to be casual and relatively easy so that anyone can pick it up and complete the content. It’s unfortunate that a majority of the game’s content drives players towards zerker gear. As far as being able to pvp on the same build you can faceroll pve content with, you’ll find your options drop drastically, moreso for certain classes. Even though hardly anyone plays it, pvp IS one of the 3 realms of gw2 gameplay. The fact that they haven’t been able to allow for more than 1-2 builds for the vast majority of classes is a disgrace.

The Tequatl update proves this.

If you want to beat the dragon, you have to do insane damage, ONLY damage. Nothing else matters. You are fighting the time limit, not the dragon.
If you don’t have as high ranged damage as other classes, you are stuck supporting those that can achieve high ranged damage.
The only failure is the time. Nothing needs to be protected, the dragon just stands still until the timer is up.

It only enforces ranged + zerker.
Condition cap makes condition damage not viable in large fights so they don’t explore condition builds.

It doesn’t help that some weapons are perfect. They have everything you need in a fight.
You are encouraged to go high damage, as a Warrior, the Greatsword has everything you need:
-A ranged snare.
-2 Chase skills
-One Chase skill is an evade
-Powerful AoE

No one uses the burst skill with the Greatsword, so you build your traits around always having high adrenaline and never use that F1 Burst skill, it’s so weak.

So what you have is a community trained to using the same tactics.

Make the Greatswords for Warrior and Guardian a powerful, larger AoE skills but less mobile melee weapon.
Make it a less perfect weapon for any situation and you got some play style diversity. Now you cannot chase ranged players all day long with no issue. Now you must consider bringing a sword and shield.
________________________________________________
This can be said for most classes.
People keep using the perfect weapon with the most uses/damage and don’t explore other options.
You don’t need builds, you need different play styles.

Vayne.8563:

Zegai.8256:

Don’t expect ‘anything’ from him or the false promises they’ve been repeating for over a year now. Balance has been an unchecked failure since launch, and many classes still only have ONE viable build.

I don’t know any professions that only have one viable build. Maybe they only have one viable build if you’re building for ONLY efficiency, which I think is the OP’s point.

I’m sure none of the builds I use regularly, you’d consider viable…but I still beat dungeons and fractals with them on a regular basis. I’m sure it takes me longer to run a dungeon than it takes you. I just don’t care.

I had a similar argument with someone yesterday. Of course, I was arguing about efficiency, but I was trying to tell people that you can beat pretty much any dungeon with any build. That’s no indicator that you have a successful build. The game is so easy that pretty much any build will fly.

It’s only when you want efficiency that the efficient builds start meaning anything. I like efficiency. I don’t like purposefully taking bad things for the illusion of depth or complexity. Doesn’t mean I don’t think others shouldn’t. The only time it gets my knickers in a twist is when they think that, because they can beat a dungeon with it, that it’s actually good.

Yesterday I saw someone say “my condi ranger wrecks dungeons”.

Let me guess, they were a bearbow too.

I hate rangers.

The problem is you really cannot customize your “playstyle” because most of it is hard-rooted into weapons.

Look at Staff Necro that uses a condition build versus a power build, pretty much the exact same playstyle.

There should be more traits that actually CHANGED the way abilities functions instead of just adding a little proc.

For example Mesmer Torch trait that makes the abilities remove conditions, it doesn’t completely change it, but suddenly I need to think about when to use my Torch skills and save them for condition removal instead of w/e previous function they had.

Imagine if EVERY weapon ability had “alternative” versions of the same skill that worked differently which you could swap out like utilities.

Take Warrior Main-Hand Sword abilities. Let’s say the Leap #2 skill that cripples could have 2 alternatives.

Alternative 1.) No longer cripples, has 300 less range, but immobilizes for 2 seconds.

Alternative 2.) Gains 300 range, does x3 dmg, Unblockable, but cooldown now twice as long (reduced if it hits).

Or take the #3 skill that does more dmg if below 50% health.

Alternative 1.) Does bonus dmg the more health target has instead.

Alternative 2.) Reduced power/base dmg, now applies stacks of bleeding based on target health.

Could completely change the playstyle of the weapon, and even make a power weapon become a condition weapon or vice versa.

Knote.2904:

The problem is you really cannot customize your “playstyle” because most of it is hard-rooted into weapons.

Look at Staff Necro that uses a condition build versus a power build, pretty much the exact same playstyle.

There should be more traits that actually CHANGED the way abilities functions instead of just adding a little proc.

For example Mesmer Torch trait that makes the abilities remove conditions, it doesn’t completely change it, but suddenly I need to think about when to use my Torch skills and save them for condition removal instead of w/e previous function they had.

Imagine if EVERY weapon ability had “alternative” versions of the same skill that worked differently which you could swap out like utilities.

Take Warrior Main-Hand Sword abilities. Let’s say the Leap #2 skill that cripples could have 2 alternatives.

Alternative 1.) No longer cripples, has 300 less range, but immobilizes for 2 seconds.

Alternative 2.) Gains 300 range, does x3 dmg, Unblockable, but cooldown now twice as long (reduced if it hits).

Or take the #3 skill that does more dmg if below 50% health.

Alternative 1.) Does bonus dmg the more health target has instead.

Alternative 2.) Reduced power/base dmg, now applies stacks of bleeding based on target health.

Could completely change the playstyle of the weapon, and even make a power weapon become a condition weapon or vice versa.

This.

I wish traits wouldn’t buff damage or conditions.

I wish they would change skills functionality completely.

If nearly every trait changes a skills mechanics to something new. Imagine a world of customization each character would have!

It’s interesting and adds play styles.

All it would do is make people choose the most useful alternative, it won’t create playstyles at all. For example:

Take Warrior Main-Hand Sword abilities. Let’s say the Leap #2 skill that cripples could have 2 alternatives.

Alternative 1.) No longer cripples, has 300 less range, but immobilizes for 2 seconds.

Alternative 2.) Gains 300 range, does x3 dmg, Unblockable, but cooldown now twice as long (reduced if it hits).

If you zerg around in WvW you’ll take 1 every time.

Or take the #3 skill that does more dmg if below 50% health.

Alternative 1.) Does bonus dmg the more health target has instead.

Alternative 2.) Reduced power/base dmg, now applies stacks of bleeding based on target health.

Again, 1.

It will just turn weapons in to what trait trees are like, there’s plenty of imaginary diversity, but if you want to play properly you’ll always go down certain lines and take certain traits.

colesy.8490:

All it would do is make people choose the most useful alternative, it won’t create playstyles at all. For example:

Take Warrior Main-Hand Sword abilities. Let’s say the Leap #2 skill that cripples could have 2 alternatives.

Alternative 1.) No longer cripples, has 300 less range, but immobilizes for 2 seconds.

Alternative 2.) Gains 300 range, does x3 dmg, Unblockable, but cooldown now twice as long (reduced if it hits).

If you zerg around in WvW you’ll take 1 every time.

Or take the #3 skill that does more dmg if below 50% health.

Alternative 1.) Does bonus dmg the more health target has instead.

Alternative 2.) Reduced power/base dmg, now applies stacks of bleeding based on target health.

Again, 1.

It will just turn weapons in to what trait trees are like, there’s plenty of imaginary diversity, but if you want to play properly you’ll always go down certain lines and take certain traits.

Which is more than what the current trait tree offers.

Fire Magic for Elementalist has 2 traits that does the exact same thing, word by word.

No Walking.6349:

Build changes your playstyle

Your playstyle determines your build

They’re the same thing bud

Either way both cost too much in this game to actually theory build anyway, why pay hundreds of gold to some build that may or may not work..

Also Berserker gear seems to out shine everything else anyway so whats the point..

Dante.1508:

No Walking.6349:

Build changes your playstyle

Your playstyle determines your build

They’re the same thing bud

Either way both cost too much in this game to actually theory build anyway, why pay hundreds of gold to some build that may or may not work..

Also Berserker gear seems to out shine everything else anyway so whats the point..

Actually, it costs nothing.
Go to the Heart of the Mists.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Zegai.8256:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t know any professions that only have one viable build. Maybe they only have one viable build if you’re building for ONLY efficiency, which I think is the OP’s point.

I’m sure none of the builds I use regularly, you’d consider viable…but I still beat dungeons and fractals with them on a regular basis. I’m sure it takes me longer to run a dungeon than it takes you. I just don’t care.

Considering you can beat dungeons and fractals with characters below lvl 80, I don’t think that’s a viable benchmark. I pvp a lot, so I’ve heard all the false hype and promises in the world from certain devs that are incapable of following through. PVE is designed to be casual and relatively easy so that anyone can pick it up and complete the content. It’s unfortunate that a majority of the game’s content drives players towards zerker gear. As far as being able to pvp on the same build you can faceroll pve content with, you’ll find your options drop drastically, moreso for certain classes. Even though hardly anyone plays it, pvp IS one of the 3 realms of gw2 gameplay. The fact that they haven’t been able to allow for more than 1-2 builds for the vast majority of classes is a disgrace.

The Tequatl update proves this.

If you want to beat the dragon, you have to do insane damage, ONLY damage. Nothing else matters. You are fighting the time limit, not the dragon.
If you don’t have as high ranged damage as other classes, you are stuck supporting those that can achieve high ranged damage.
The only failure is the time. Nothing needs to be protected, the dragon just stands still until the timer is up.

It only enforces ranged + zerker.
Condition cap makes condition damage not viable in large fights so they don’t explore condition builds.

---

It doesn’t help that some weapons are perfect. They have everything you need in a fight.
You are encouraged to go high damage, as a Warrior, the Greatsword has everything you need:
-A ranged snare.
-2 Chase skills
-One Chase skill is an evade
-Powerful AoE

No one uses the burst skill with the Greatsword, so you build your traits around always having high adrenaline and never use that F1 Burst skill, it’s so weak.

So what you have is a community trained to using the same tactics.

Make the Greatswords for Warrior and Guardian a powerful, larger AoE skills but less mobile melee weapon.
Make it a less perfect weapon for any situation and you got some play style diversity. Now you cannot chase ranged players all day long with no issue. Now you must consider bringing a sword and shield.
________________________________________________
This can be said for most classes.
People keep using the perfect weapon with the most uses/damage and don’t explore other options.
You don’t need builds, you need different play styles.

The Teq fight proves nothing. All the way people are building for everything else doesn’t work in Tequatl. You need to have high power, but high precision and crit damage do nothing to them.

Tquatl is more about coordination. If they guys on the guns know what htey’re doing and if people protect them, you’ll have them buffing and clearing poison off the zerg, which should be stacked, and taking scales of Tequtl.

It’s a technique fight as much as a damage race. We almost beat it early and I was on my ranger. We got him down about 5% at the end.

The reason why lost was people not taking the scales off, not the damage.

I love the play style of killing absolutely everything in sight with the #1 button and the dodge button and I have always successfully built my warrior around it.

colesy.8490:

All it would do is make people choose the most useful alternative, it won’t create playstyles at all. For example:

Take Warrior Main-Hand Sword abilities. Let’s say the Leap #2 skill that cripples could have 2 alternatives.

Alternative 1.) No longer cripples, has 300 less range, but immobilizes for 2 seconds.

Alternative 2.) Gains 300 range, does x3 dmg, Unblockable, but cooldown now twice as long (reduced if it hits).

If you zerg around in WvW you’ll take 1 every time.

Or take the #3 skill that does more dmg if below 50% health.

Alternative 1.) Does bonus dmg the more health target has instead.

Alternative 2.) Reduced power/base dmg, now applies stacks of bleeding based on target health.

Again, 1.

It will just turn weapons in to what trait trees are like, there’s plenty of imaginary diversity, but if you want to play properly you’ll always go down certain lines and take certain traits.

If this is the case then why doesn’t Anet remove every trait and weapon that isn’t used so we all have the exact same character?

Because that would be boring.

Also this is where balancing actually comes into play.

No Walking.6349:

Build changes your playstyle

Your playstyle determines your build

They’re the same thing bud

Broadly speaking, the sentiment here is absolutely true. I would simply equate them by saying that playstyle follows build. The build determines the playstyles available.

Consider games like Diablo 2 & 3, and, well, GW1&2, where there has been a drastic reduction in build complexity. One of the thing that people miss is the variety of interesting builds and playstyles that a more complex system affords. We have seen a dramatic dumbing down of build systems over the last few years and players miss the diversity. True, sometimes there isn’t a lot of diversity in the end-game, regardless, but the absolute number of viable builds and playstyles was higher previously.

One thing of interest is Colin’s recent blog on the future where he described skill/ability progression to be a focus going forward. If this plays out anywhere near how it did in GW1, this could mean a focus that would create more interesting builds and playstyles, or what the OP is asking for. Of, course, I have no idea what to make of Anet pronouncements anymore but that’s one possible meaning.

Knote.2904:

colesy.8490:

All it would do is make people choose the most useful alternative, it won’t create playstyles at all. For example:

Take Warrior Main-Hand Sword abilities. Let’s say the Leap #2 skill that cripples could have 2 alternatives.

Alternative 1.) No longer cripples, has 300 less range, but immobilizes for 2 seconds.

Alternative 2.) Gains 300 range, does x3 dmg, Unblockable, but cooldown now twice as long (reduced if it hits).

If you zerg around in WvW you’ll take 1 every time.

Or take the #3 skill that does more dmg if below 50% health.

Alternative 1.) Does bonus dmg the more health target has instead.

Alternative 2.) Reduced power/base dmg, now applies stacks of bleeding based on target health.

Again, 1.

It will just turn weapons in to what trait trees are like, there’s plenty of imaginary diversity, but if you want to play properly you’ll always go down certain lines and take certain traits.

If this is the case then why doesn’t Anet remove every trait and weapon that isn’t used so we all have the exact same character?

Because that would be boring.

Also this is where balancing actually comes into play.

They don’t remove them because pretend diversity is better than no diversity. It’s why for example there’s food that makes you deal more damage while downed. Nobody will use it… but … diversity!

Nova Stiker.8396:

Dante.1508:

No Walking.6349:

Build changes your playstyle

Your playstyle determines your build

They’re the same thing bud

Either way both cost too much in this game to actually theory build anyway, why pay hundreds of gold to some build that may or may not work..

Also Berserker gear seems to out shine everything else anyway so whats the point..

Actually, it costs nothing.
Go to the Heart of the Mists.

Doesn’t work as the trinkets are different, and you can’t get every type.

colesy.8490:

Knote.2904:

colesy.8490:

All it would do is make people choose the most useful alternative, it won’t create playstyles at all. For example:

Take Warrior Main-Hand Sword abilities. Let’s say the Leap #2 skill that cripples could have 2 alternatives.

Alternative 1.) No longer cripples, has 300 less range, but immobilizes for 2 seconds.

Alternative 2.) Gains 300 range, does x3 dmg, Unblockable, but cooldown now twice as long (reduced if it hits).

If you zerg around in WvW you’ll take 1 every time.

Or take the #3 skill that does more dmg if below 50% health.

Alternative 1.) Does bonus dmg the more health target has instead.

Alternative 2.) Reduced power/base dmg, now applies stacks of bleeding based on target health.

Again, 1.

It will just turn weapons in to what trait trees are like, there’s plenty of imaginary diversity, but if you want to play properly you’ll always go down certain lines and take certain traits.

If this is the case then why doesn’t Anet remove every trait and weapon that isn’t used so we all have the exact same character?

Because that would be boring.

Also this is where balancing actually comes into play.

They don’t remove them because pretend diversity is better than no diversity. It’s why for example there’s food that makes you deal more damage while downed. Nobody will use it… but … diversity!

A lot of people used the food that did more damage when downed during the Queen’s Gauntlet.

Sometimes different foods are out there for different situations.

Wow.

colesy.8490:

Knote.2904:

colesy.8490:

All it would do is make people choose the most useful alternative, it won’t create playstyles at all. For example:

Take Warrior Main-Hand Sword abilities. Let’s say the Leap #2 skill that cripples could have 2 alternatives.

Alternative 1.) No longer cripples, has 300 less range, but immobilizes for 2 seconds.

Alternative 2.) Gains 300 range, does x3 dmg, Unblockable, but cooldown now twice as long (reduced if it hits).

If you zerg around in WvW you’ll take 1 every time.

Or take the #3 skill that does more dmg if below 50% health.

Alternative 1.) Does bonus dmg the more health target has instead.

Alternative 2.) Reduced power/base dmg, now applies stacks of bleeding based on target health.

Again, 1.

It will just turn weapons in to what trait trees are like, there’s plenty of imaginary diversity, but if you want to play properly you’ll always go down certain lines and take certain traits.

If this is the case then why doesn’t Anet remove every trait and weapon that isn’t used so we all have the exact same character?

Because that would be boring.

Also this is where balancing actually comes into play.

They don’t remove them because pretend diversity is better than no diversity. It’s why for example there’s food that makes you deal more damage while downed. Nobody will use it… but … diversity!

So then, you actually think the game would be better if there was no such thing as builds, each class was just a fixed set of like 15 abilities and that was that? Lol…

Sure would love to play that /sarcasm

It would be nice if weapons had styles or stances that you could change. Something simple like offensive, defensive, and balanced.

Balanced would be your basic weapon skills with a mix of offense and defense. Switch to an offensive stance and your defensive weapon skills are swapped with offensive skills. Switch to a defensive stance and your offensive skills are replaced with defensive skills.

That might add some depth and allow some play styles to utilize more of the weapons.

Killsmith.8169:

It would be nice if weapons had styles or stances that you could change. Something simple like offensive, defensive, and balanced.

Balanced would be your basic weapon skills with a mix of offense and defense. Switch to an offensive stance and your defensive weapon skills are swapped with offensive skills. Switch to a defensive stance and your offensive skills are replaced with defensive skills.

That might add some depth and allow some play styles to utilize more of the weapons.

I don’t think Guild Wars 2 needs more depth, it already has a lot of mechanics it just doesn’t utilize them well.

Knote.2904:

colesy.8490:

Knote.2904:

colesy.8490:

All it would do is make people choose the most useful alternative, it won’t create playstyles at all. For example:

Take Warrior Main-Hand Sword abilities. Let’s say the Leap #2 skill that cripples could have 2 alternatives.

Alternative 1.) No longer cripples, has 300 less range, but immobilizes for 2 seconds.

Alternative 2.) Gains 300 range, does x3 dmg, Unblockable, but cooldown now twice as long (reduced if it hits).

If you zerg around in WvW you’ll take 1 every time.

Or take the #3 skill that does more dmg if below 50% health.

Alternative 1.) Does bonus dmg the more health target has instead.

Alternative 2.) Reduced power/base dmg, now applies stacks of bleeding based on target health.

Again, 1.

It will just turn weapons in to what trait trees are like, there’s plenty of imaginary diversity, but if you want to play properly you’ll always go down certain lines and take certain traits.

If this is the case then why doesn’t Anet remove every trait and weapon that isn’t used so we all have the exact same character?

Because that would be boring.

Also this is where balancing actually comes into play.

They don’t remove them because pretend diversity is better than no diversity. It’s why for example there’s food that makes you deal more damage while downed. Nobody will use it… but … diversity!

So then, you actually think the game would be better if there was no such thing as builds, each class was just a fixed set of like 15 abilities and that was that? Lol…

Sure would love to play that /sarcasm

… I actually do think the game would probably be better that way. I don’t equate a variety of builds with somehow being good. You could build content around the idea that each class was different but had a fixed set of abilities and probably have it better designed as a result.

Kirschwasser.3972:

Knote.2904:

colesy.8490:

Knote.2904:

colesy.8490:

All it would do is make people choose the most useful alternative, it won’t create playstyles at all. For example:

Take Warrior Main-Hand Sword abilities. Let’s say the Leap #2 skill that cripples could have 2 alternatives.

Alternative 1.) No longer cripples, has 300 less range, but immobilizes for 2 seconds.

Alternative 2.) Gains 300 range, does x3 dmg, Unblockable, but cooldown now twice as long (reduced if it hits).

If you zerg around in WvW you’ll take 1 every time.

Or take the #3 skill that does more dmg if below 50% health.

Alternative 1.) Does bonus dmg the more health target has instead.

Alternative 2.) Reduced power/base dmg, now applies stacks of bleeding based on target health.

Again, 1.

It will just turn weapons in to what trait trees are like, there’s plenty of imaginary diversity, but if you want to play properly you’ll always go down certain lines and take certain traits.

If this is the case then why doesn’t Anet remove every trait and weapon that isn’t used so we all have the exact same character?

Because that would be boring.

Also this is where balancing actually comes into play.

They don’t remove them because pretend diversity is better than no diversity. It’s why for example there’s food that makes you deal more damage while downed. Nobody will use it… but … diversity!

So then, you actually think the game would be better if there was no such thing as builds, each class was just a fixed set of like 15 abilities and that was that? Lol…

Sure would love to play that /sarcasm

… I actually do think the game would probably be better that way. I don’t equate a variety of builds with somehow being good. You could build content around the idea that each class was different but had a fixed set of abilities and probably have it better designed as a result.

Then you would need to have way more than 8 classes or your game would get boring even faster than it already does with limited build diversity, especially in PvE where anything other than glass cannon zerker builds are bunk.

Why would you need more than 8 classes? The game would become more about skill and effective tactics and less about having a build that trumps other builds.

Kirschwasser.3972:

Why would you need more than 8 classes? The game would become more about skill and effective tactics and less about having a build that trumps other builds.

How would it become more about skill and tactics? It would be the same as now just less options.

And it would get boring, very fast. If LoL and DotA had only 10 champs/heroes and only one item build per it would get boring.

Knote.2904:

Kirschwasser.3972:

Why would you need more than 8 classes? The game would become more about skill and effective tactics and less about having a build that trumps other builds.

How would it become more about skill and tactics? It would be the same as now just less options.

And it would get boring, very fast. If LoL and DotA had only 10 champs/heroes and only one item build per it would get boring.

Each champion only has 4 skills (sometimes more, rarely) but look at all the variation some skills you can use.

League of Legends keeps it interesting with a sheer amount of champions, each very different play style from the other.

Others easy, others hard.
________________________________________________
Guild Wars 2 can have a similar system because of traits.

But WAY to many traits reduce recharge, increase damage, increase defense.

Instead of a system like,

“Arcing Slice becomes Storm of Swords. Sword of Storms takes 75 adrenaline to charge. Only 1 stage.”
Sword of Storms:
Spin wildly for three seconds and you can move while doing so. Destroy incoming projectiles while spinning. Adjacent allies gain retaliation.
*Breaks Stun
*Retaliation – 3 Seconds.

Wouldn’t that be more interesting than:
Berserker’s Power – Increased damage based how much adrenaline you have built.
Stage 1: 5%
Stage 2: 10%
Stage 3: 15%

I think so.

colesy.8490:

Wow.

It’s true…during the Queen’s Gauntlet, even the ingredients used to make that food went up in price significantly on the marketplace.

Vayne.8563:

colesy.8490:

Wow.

It’s true…during the Queen’s Gauntlet, even the ingredients used to make that food went up in price significantly on the marketplace.

I doubt it.
I think people realized feeding WvW zergs trays that increase health while downed is good as a single persons death can rez of multiple enemies.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Vayne.8563:

colesy.8490:

Wow.

It’s true…during the Queen’s Gauntlet, even the ingredients used to make that food went up in price significantly on the marketplace.

I doubt it.
I think people realized feeding WvW zergs trays that increase health while downed is good as a single persons death can rez of multiple enemies.

Well, I don’t know, I can only tell you the advice I was getting from multiple sources on the matter. I don’t WvW that much so I can’t say. But I can say, with at least some authority, that a number of people I spoke to were in fact using that food.

Because there was a reasonable chance on some of the third tier bosses you were going to go down fast and rallying was important.

This
is
BUILDWARS!

No the bigger issue here affecting this, is actually Traits. There’s some good ones on some classes, but most of them come NO WHERE CLOSE to the diversity we used to have in just Gw1 Prophecies, let alone all the other chapters piled on

ilr.9675:

This
is
BUILDWARS!

No the bigger issue here affecting this, is actually Traits. There’s some good ones on some classes, but most of them come NO WHERE CLOSE to the diversity we used to have in just Gw1 Prophecies, let alone all the other chapters piled on

Guild Wars 1 diversity was okay but it’s probably because the limitations the engine ArenaNet made didn’t allow a lot of diverse stuff.

However it is much more than what Guild Wars 2 currently offers. Can you imagine in Guild Wars 1, take half of the Elementalist spells away and replace them with “You deal X more damage”