Guild Wars 2

I am only playing Ascalonian Catacombs with my guardian in Nomad gear. Before the update and after down scaling I had 531 healing power, around 1060 armor and 6k+ health.
After the update and after downscaling I have 381 healing power, 919 armor and 5,2k health.

All my items are fully repaired and as level 80 without down scaling I have the same stats as before.

Did they forget to place this in the patch notes or is it a bug? (What isn’t bugged after this update….)

weird maybe they are tying to make lvl 80 characters not as OP in low level areas by scaling stat bonuses down more too

Dungeon community is aware:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Undocumented-changes-March-16-2015

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Change-of-powercap-in-AC

Edit: I recommend checking dungeon subforum a day or two after a patch lands. Many times an undocumented change has been implemented. It seems dungeon changes don’t always warrant a note.

Kinda funny how people only notice that their power is reduced.

The least Arena Net can do is say that they changed this.

Azzumy.7685:

Kinda funny how people only notice that their power is reduced.

The least Arena Net can do is say that they changed this.

Well, most people who are checking that kind of stuff are zerker build so yeah power is the first thing to pop out

And yeah… it’d be nice if they put in patch notes for stuff like that, but at this point it’s safe to assume that there are at least a few things that they leave out for dungeons each patch.

Jerus.4350:

Azzumy.7685:

Kinda funny how people only notice that their power is reduced.

The least Arena Net can do is say that they changed this.

Well, most people who are checking that kind of stuff are zerker build so yeah power is the first thing to pop out

And yeah… it’d be nice if they put in patch notes for stuff like that, but at this point it’s safe to assume that there are at least a few things that they leave out for dungeons each patch.

It’s affecting low level zones as well. At least in Queensdale I’m seeing a huge nerf. I’ve lost something like 50%+ of my total power and 25%+ crit chance.

Logged multiple characters in full berserker to check it and they are all the same way.

Honestly its not just power but every single stat, for me it was my hp which made me notice.
I main guard and in AC my hp use to be 5000ish, but since the patch my ac hp is 3226. I have been running dungeons and open world but what I am seeing more and more is people going down from 2 hits due to the new low hp.

ele and thief will probably have it worse since their hp pool is the lowest.

How does it compare to people doing the content at level? Downleveling was always supposed to keep you competitive, not superpowered; perhaps this change is meant to bring things back in line to still having to be on your toes even if you’re a geared 80.

(My guild 4-manned CM asura path today and we didn’t notice any problem in the fights. Except that running into the stables turned murderous because the riflemen noticed us even with someone still in cutscene … that was a surprise!).

This is the biggest BS change. I already die enough as an Ele. Whatever. Why do I always come to play game and be new and they start doing crap like this.

A power downgrade on low-level maps for level 80 players actually sounds like a great thing, as you can steamroll stuff pretty easily in low level areas with a downlevelled 80 character. And it’ll help with low-level area daily events too, as if people can’t slaughter enemies in seconds it’ll give more people time to tag the event.

Can’t speak to the effect on dungeons, though, as I don’t do dungeons.

Electro.4173:

A power downgrade on low-level maps for level 80 players actually sounds like a great thing, as you can steamroll stuff pretty easily in low level areas with a downlevelled 80 character. And it’ll help with low-level area daily events too, as if people can’t slaughter enemies in seconds it’ll give more people time to tag the event.

Can’t speak to the effect on dungeons, though, as I don’t do dungeons.

I don’t think this is nearly an extreme enough drop in damage to fix the event issues, and really hope they wouldn’t try this as the solution to their poorly thought out daily.

They just need to stop trying to cram everyone into the same zone and it really would be much less of a problem right there.

Pockets.3201:

I don’t think this is nearly an extreme enough drop in damage to fix the event issues, and really hope they wouldn’t try this as the solution to their poorly thought out daily.

They just need to stop trying to cram everyone into the same zone and it really would be much less of a problem right there.

Another solution would be to have multiple zones assigned in a round-robin fashion, perhaps on login. But then its no longer a simple list that’s assigned once, so may not be as server-friendly or coding friendly.

Sungak Alkandenes.1369:

Pockets.3201:

I don’t think this is nearly an extreme enough drop in damage to fix the event issues, and really hope they wouldn’t try this as the solution to their poorly thought out daily.

They just need to stop trying to cram everyone into the same zone and it really would be much less of a problem right there.

Another solution would be to have multiple zones assigned in a round-robin fashion, perhaps on login. But then its no longer a simple list that’s assigned once, so may not be as server-friendly or coding friendly.

Or maybe just have it regional, like the gathering is?

Pockets.3201:

Sungak Alkandenes.1369:

Another solution would be to have multiple zones assigned in a round-robin fashion, perhaps on login. But then its no longer a simple list that’s assigned once, so may not be as server-friendly or coding friendly.

Or maybe just have it regional, like the gathering is?

I’m not sure that’s possible, yet.

Everything we’ve experienced so far with the DE system is exclusively at the zone level, including the two LA meta event sequences. Our one ‘main’ example of event influence from launch – the Orr temples – has been broken by how the megaserver system works too. So at the moment things are tied at the zone level (instead of region) for events.

Unfortunate, really – I liked the feel of the old Orr in that respect. It gave me the same sense of ‘living to make the world better’ that I had in Eve. You don’t get that with Megaserver, though the two new maps are showing it may be possible in other ways. We’ll have to see how the expansion plays out I suppose.

Sungak Alkandenes.1369:

Pockets.3201:

Sungak Alkandenes.1369:

Another solution would be to have multiple zones assigned in a round-robin fashion, perhaps on login. But then its no longer a simple list that’s assigned once, so may not be as server-friendly or coding friendly.

Or maybe just have it regional, like the gathering is?

I’m not sure that’s possible, yet.

Everything we’ve experienced so far with the DE system is exclusively at the zone level, including the two LA meta event sequences. Our one ‘main’ example of event influence from launch – the Orr temples – has been broken by how the megaserver system works too. So at the moment things are tied at the zone level (instead of region) for events.

Unfortunate, really – I liked the feel of the old Orr in that respect. It gave me the same sense of ‘living to make the world better’ that I had in Eve. You don’t get that with Megaserver, though the two new maps are showing it may be possible in other ways. We’ll have to see how the expansion plays out I suppose.

Umm…the old dailies had regional event completion as an option on some days. They would just need to bring that back.

D’oh. Had to actually look up the history in the wiki, was so long ago.

That was either ‘Daily Events’ or the later ‘Event Mentor,’ which counted events from any source – including WvW (which is where I got a lot of my monthly Event count done in the old version – daily usually done in 20-30 minutes there, monthly about 80% done in 4 hours or so).

In that case, a ‘regional’ event set is closer to possible, with a little extra legwork on how the zones work. I certainly support the change, but we may not get something like that until after the expansion hits.

Wow, they fixed the hell out of that server crash, huh?

Yeah there’s a lot of bugs as of now but maybe they’ll fix it if it’s such a problem with the community.

Anyone else did the bosses after the patch and noticed it took a little bit longer to kill them as usual?

Yeah, I noticed a significant increase of duration of killing Maw (Svanir Champ in Wayfearer Hills). I asked in my guild and they though it was all fine. But it seems they really changed it. Additionally, before update I could kill low enemies with 1-2 GS flourishes. Now it takes 3-4 to kill them.

I did CoE yesterday as war and it seemed my dmg was lowered a bit, usually i did 18-25k with the #2 gs ability no i do 15-18k why is this happening?

Instead of making INTERESTING content they’re nerfing scaling. Wow. Just wow.
I hope it’s a bug or oversight.

My crit chance is useless now when im down scaled

I do believe this was long overdue. You all must recognize how OP level 80 characters were in lower level content, right?

Not adding changes to patch notes leaves me upset most times …. but the change discussed in this thread does not.

That makes sense. I was in Metrica with my lvl 80 thief and I was not one-shotting everything anymore, wondering why. I think that’s overall a good change, but i wish they would have announced it.

As someone who only has level 80 characters, I can only say that I think a nerf of our DPS etc in lower level zones is overdue. I see way too many level 80s casually killing everything that moves in seconds, while the people actually at the zone’s level have no time to even tag things. Too bad this is most likely a bug…

Broom.2561:

As someone who only has level 80 characters, I can only say that I think a nerf of our DPS etc in lower level zones is overdue. I see way too many level 80s casually killing everything that moves in seconds, while the people actually at the zone’s level have no time to even tag things. Too bad this is most likely a bug…

I actually worry that it is a bug too. Hope its not.

leebe.2093:

My crit chance is useless now when im down scaled

not to mention the chance on crit sigils are pretty much useless now unless u stay in highlevel areas.

helping lowies system now?

first they nerf my darn might, then they nerf the little bit of stability i got big time and make it now pretty much useless (3 stacks for 4 seconds all 30 seconds) and now they nerf even more of my kittening stats and cant even be bothered to tell me beforehand… seriosly a-net i really slowly got enough of that kitten… atleast write something in the patchnotes if you cant be bothered to tell us a week before you nerf what you nerf, why you nerf it and stuff…might be somewhat helpfull.. just sayin

Part of the perception problem is we’ve been living with overpowered 80s in downscaled areas for almost a year. It started with the Traits redesign, when the mobs were reduced to account for the lack of stats through level 30. (Yes, it was a bad idea to begin with, but I’m theorizing the rationale.)

The legion of 80s would plow through events much faster than was appropriate, so their next step was to scale the max-level characters more appropriately. I guess the crowd crowing about how “easy” the game is just got an artificial difficulty bump. /shrug

If this was an undocumented intentional change, I can’t say that I’m displeased. After all, I’ve been saying for a while now that downscaling could use a balance pass.

If it’s a bug. Lol that’s one helluva bug!

It has to be a bug.

There is no way they would alter one of the critical features of the game without making any announcement on it.

Kedarrian.2905:

It has to be a bug.

There is no way they would alter one of the critical features of the game without making any announcement on it.

Aww…. That’s just precious.
Still believing that after all this time.
You hold them to higher standards and have greater expectations than I do.

i think now is time to go, they nerf and change so many things in this game who i can’t feel i play GW2, first they nerf cond. now nerf zec, classes like necro are useless now, tief are killed with one hit of an boss in DGs.
TY Anet you can make me leave this game.

If this is a bug, I’m hoping for an expedient fix. This patch is full of assorted crud, but the downscaling issue should be made a priority.

If this is a planned change, which wasn’t announced, and then wasn’t included in patch notes, then I’m done (and no, you can’t have my stuff). A massive, across-the-board PvE nerf implemented on the sly, without a doubt just to kowtow to the tiny minority of “e-sportsmen” and “hardcore leets” is just about as dumb a move as could be made.

Now I’m all for some people wanting additional challenge, and by all means, let’s have OPTIONAL features that enable the said challenge. Tick this box to halve your HP, push that button to reduce your crit chance, select yonder option to run a level 35 dungeon at character level 30… that’s all good, as long as it is OPTIONAL.

I’m almost certain it’s a bug though, and look forward to being proven right. If the change was planned… then it is ham-fisted, dumb and ill-timed. Because while the e-sportsmen are crowing about “yawp moar challeng” and “get gud cashul”, a great many people will head for the door.

Which is a rather bad thing to happen on the eve of an expansion.

I haven’t had a chance to investigate this but if true, it’s too bad that they didn’t feel the need to communicate this with us. Not telling us thing before they are ready is one thing, not telling us things that they implement in the game that are major like this is another and it’s not cool.

It’s like sitting down to a game of Monopoly with friends and passing “Go” and asking for your $200 and your friends are like, “Nah, we decided that you don’t get that money for passing go.”

“You could have told me that before the game started.”

“Nah. You didn’t need to know. We will be changing things during the game too without telling you. Keep playing though. It will be fun.”

I thought something changed. Yesterday on my thief in wayward foothills it actually took more attacks to kill something. I don’t mind the change becuase you can just do a burst skill and everything dies instantly before the change. I always felt bad when a lowbie attacks the same mob as me and I wreck it right in front of them. But not telling us about a big change like this bothers me.

Azhure.1857:

Kedarrian.2905:

It has to be a bug.

There is no way they would alter one of the critical features of the game without making any announcement on it.

Aww…. That’s just precious.
Still believing that after all this time.
You hold them to higher standards and have greater expectations than I do.

Yeah, i genuinely do. But if it turns out its not a bug, then that will change somewhat. Am still expecting it to be a bug.

Kedarrian.2905:

Azhure.1857:

Kedarrian.2905:

It has to be a bug.

There is no way they would alter one of the critical features of the game without making any announcement on it.

Aww…. That’s just precious.
Still believing that after all this time.
You hold them to higher standards and have greater expectations than I do.

Yeah, i genuinely do. But if it turns out its not a bug, then that will change somewhat. Am still expecting it to be a bug.

I suspect it’s not a bug but it wasn’t supposed to be included in this update. They often have several builds going at the same time. It’s easy to have something like this happen, particularly while understaffed and key people being at shows.

Vayne.8563:

Kedarrian.2905:

Azhure.1857:

Kedarrian.2905:

It has to be a bug.

There is no way they would alter one of the critical features of the game without making any announcement on it.

Aww…. That’s just precious.
Still believing that after all this time.
You hold them to higher standards and have greater expectations than I do.

Yeah, i genuinely do. But if it turns out its not a bug, then that will change somewhat. Am still expecting it to be a bug.

I suspect it’s not a bug but it wasn’t supposed to be included in this update. They often have several builds going at the same time. It’s easy to have something like this happen, particularly while understaffed and key people being at shows.

Happens almost every patch in quite a few cases.

And I like the change, and I doubt it’s a bug. It addresses teh whole “dungeons are just stack and press 1 in zerk gear and kill things before they can kill you” talk. At least now you’ll actually have to stack might and think about what you’re doing to blow up low level dungeons.

The bigger concern is one I truly think and hope is a bug, and that’s the mismatch between effect ranges and animations. Apparently for example Brie’s beam attack now hits well outside the animation, before you could be right next to the beam, let it brush your hair, and still be ok, now apparently that’s taking it tot he face. Sureshot Seamus is another what used to be about a 90degree cone iirc is now apparently 180. Pretty big changes, wouldn’t be so terrible if they’d adjust the animations, but without animations matching effects it’s pretty lame.

Rauderi.8706:

Part of the perception problem is we’ve been living with overpowered 80s in downscaled areas for almost a year. It started with the Traits redesign, when the mobs were reduced to account for the lack of stats through level 30. (Yes, it was a bad idea to begin with, but I’m theorizing the rationale.)

The legion of 80s would plow through events much faster than was appropriate, so their next step was to scale the max-level characters more appropriately. I guess the crowd crowing about how “easy” the game is just got an artificial difficulty bump. /shrug

exactly. but y not just making the eventmobs and bosses harder instead of?

Jerus.4350:

Vayne.8563:

Kedarrian.2905:

Azhure.1857:

Kedarrian.2905:

It has to be a bug.

There is no way they would alter one of the critical features of the game without making any announcement on it.

Aww…. That’s just precious.
Still believing that after all this time.
You hold them to higher standards and have greater expectations than I do.

Yeah, i genuinely do. But if it turns out its not a bug, then that will change somewhat. Am still expecting it to be a bug.

I suspect it’s not a bug but it wasn’t supposed to be included in this update. They often have several builds going at the same time. It’s easy to have something like this happen, particularly while understaffed and key people being at shows.

Happens almost every patch in quite a few cases.

And I like the change, and I doubt it’s a bug. It addresses teh whole “dungeons are just stack and press 1 in zerk gear and kill things before they can kill you” talk. At least now you’ll actually have to stack might and think about what you’re doing to blow up low level dungeons.

The bigger concern is one I truly think and hope is a bug, and that’s the mismatch between effect ranges and animations. Apparently for example Brie’s beam attack now hits well outside the animation, before you could be right next to the beam, let it brush your hair, and still be ok, now apparently that’s taking it tot he face. Sureshot Seamus is another what used to be about a 90degree cone iirc is now apparently 180. Pretty big changes, wouldn’t be so terrible if they’d adjust the animations, but without animations matching effects it’s pretty lame.

why i can’t understand is “why nerfing old content” who players just do to get gold? if Anet need a more challenger DGs, make new paths like aether pirates in TA, and make the drop on this dungeons more attractive (maybe dropping ascendant gears) nerf this currents DGs only will exclude much more low lvl people who want to do DGs.
PS: the mechanic not change all play still stak and kill the mobs before die, but fragile class like tief and ele just become unplayable.
Pss: might was nerfed in the last update (35 to 30).

Kedarrian.2905:

Azhure.1857:

Kedarrian.2905:

It has to be a bug.

There is no way they would alter one of the critical features of the game without making any announcement on it.

Aww…. That’s just precious.
Still believing that after all this time.
You hold them to higher standards and have greater expectations than I do.

Yeah, i genuinely do. But if it turns out its not a bug, then that will change somewhat. Am still expecting it to be a bug.

Even if it’s not a bug, and simply got overlooked by the people that compiled the patch notes, that kitten happens. Since I started on the project I’m currently working on, something very similar has happened to us twice (and I’ve only been on the project for about 6 months now). When people get super busy, sometimes its hard to get a list from them to compile all the notes on what was completed, what’s making it into the roll out, etc. Hell, even using things like JIRA and TeamFoundation Server (which tracks all the tasks and what state they are in) things can still be missed.

hardloop von edgehoven.8512:

exactly. but y not just making the eventmobs and bosses harder instead of?

This is a downscaling issue. The power divide between a level 80 character and a lower level player that is equal to that lower zone has always been noticeable. In many cases it is so extreme that maxed characters can plow through mobs while they’re lower level counterparts can’t even get a hit in before the mobs are destroyed.

Fixing downscaling to a level that makes maxed characters more equal to the zone they’re playing in makes sense. I support it.

However if they simply made the content harder, as you suggest, lower level characters would be punished for it. How? Yes, if they were surrounded by 80s when they’re in these zones, it may mean that they can get their hits in. Maybe not. But what would happen with harder content if those maxed characters weren’t around to help? Its like demanding Plains of Ashford foes to hit like they’re from Fields of Ruin instead just because there are level 80 toons that don’t like the thought of being downscaled appropriately.

Fredjesus.7085:

Jerus.4350:

Vayne.8563:

Kedarrian.2905:

Azhure.1857:

Kedarrian.2905:

It has to be a bug.

There is no way they would alter one of the critical features of the game without making any announcement on it.

Aww…. That’s just precious.
Still believing that after all this time.
You hold them to higher standards and have greater expectations than I do.

Yeah, i genuinely do. But if it turns out its not a bug, then that will change somewhat. Am still expecting it to be a bug.

I suspect it’s not a bug but it wasn’t supposed to be included in this update. They often have several builds going at the same time. It’s easy to have something like this happen, particularly while understaffed and key people being at shows.

Happens almost every patch in quite a few cases.

And I like the change, and I doubt it’s a bug. It addresses teh whole “dungeons are just stack and press 1 in zerk gear and kill things before they can kill you” talk. At least now you’ll actually have to stack might and think about what you’re doing to blow up low level dungeons.

The bigger concern is one I truly think and hope is a bug, and that’s the mismatch between effect ranges and animations. Apparently for example Brie’s beam attack now hits well outside the animation, before you could be right next to the beam, let it brush your hair, and still be ok, now apparently that’s taking it tot he face. Sureshot Seamus is another what used to be about a 90degree cone iirc is now apparently 180. Pretty big changes, wouldn’t be so terrible if they’d adjust the animations, but without animations matching effects it’s pretty lame.

why i can’t understand is “why nerfing old content” who players just do to get gold? if Anet need a more challenger DGs, make new paths like aether pirates in TA, and make the drop on this dungeons more attractive (maybe dropping ascendant gears) nerf this currents DGs only will exclude much more low lvl people who want to do DGs.
PS: the mechanic not change all play still stak and kill the mobs before die, but fragile class like tief and ele just become unplayable.
Pss: might was nerfed in the last update (35 to 30).

I guarantee you Ele/Thieves are still rocking AC just fine (pretty sure some were soloing still). You’ll just have to you know… dodge and use your defenses.

That’s exactly the point of the change as I see it.

I mean if people want to go with 4X war + guard for it, sure, do whatever you want to make it easier, but again that’s exactly the point of the change, to make it content where you have to take defenses into account again and it sounds like it’s done that.

I made a new level 5 necro equipped it with lvl 5 power equipment (helm only the lvl 0 mask without stats and no shoulder, no jewelry beside the +2 to all ring) and placed her at the same place as my lvl 80 full ascended (wup wup armor/jewelry and coal forge spire). Tried a screenshoot, but that is broken as well (full black), so here are the stats manually:

lvl 80 vs 5
77 vs 81 power
71 vs 56 though
63 vs 56 vita
69 vs 56 prec
9 vs 2 fero
14 vs 2 cond
12 vs 2 heal
————-
0 vs 0 life force
167 vs 141 armor
770 vs 700 health
12% vs 5% crit chance (in a lvl 80 area the lvl 80 has 40%)
158% vs 151% crit dam
40% vs 0% cond dura
45% vs 0% boon dura

Damage on a river drake is
20 vs 20 direct dam
17 vs 13 cond dam per sec
crits did not happen

700g for ascended stuff instead of 10s for blue stuff and leveling to 80 vs be at 5 really paid off, same direct damage, but 4 more condi damage per second, yeah. I wonder how a lvl 80 in exo or even only rare would perform

I think it is a bug. I made https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Huge-change-in-downscaling here in this forum section and a moderator moved it to bug reports.

Azhure.1857:

hardloop von edgehoven.8512:

exactly. but y not just making the eventmobs and bosses harder instead of?

This is a downscaling issue. The power divide between a level 80 character and a lower level player that is equal to that lower zone has always been noticeable. In many cases it is so extreme that maxed characters can plow through mobs while they’re lower level counterparts can’t even get a hit in before the mobs are destroyed.

Fixing downscaling to a level that makes maxed characters more equal to the zone they’re playing in makes sense. I support it.

However if they simply made the content harder, as you suggest, lower level characters would be punished for it. How? Yes, if they were surrounded by 80s when they’re in these zones, it may mean that they can get their hits in. Maybe not. But what would happen with harder content if those maxed characters weren’t around to help? Its like demanding Plains of Ashford foes to hit like they’re from Fields of Ruin instead just because there are level 80 toons that don’t like the thought of being downscaled appropriately.

dynamic content system.
plus i never saw any worldboss event without 80s around. not a single one. the worst case was a bunch of 80s in the maw who managed to get owned by the boss, more than one and half a year ago.
at least they could make the preevent mobs a lot harder.

although your arguments are discussable.

Sooooo, we aren’t tiny Gods any more stat wise.

Seems to be back to normal with last patch.

Yea! Godlings again!