Guild Wars 2

VOLKON.1290:

So… you’re hung up on the magic find alone then? 18% total MF across all six pieces which will take months to craft… that’s the issue?

Magic Find?

Well… ok then.

I don’t give a crap about magic find. I don’t give a crap about condition damage for example either. What grinds my gears is that they randomly add new gear, which is imbalanced and simply better than other, previously existing gear, which is basically like slapping everyone who invested in gear, which is now simply outshined by the new one, directly in the face. I don’t even own a set of magic find, but even as someone who is using a normal set of armor – now there is something equal, which has magic find in addition to that.

Marijan.4175:

VOLKON.1290:

So… you’re hung up on the magic find alone then? 18% total MF across all six pieces which will take months to craft… that’s the issue?

Magic Find?

Well… ok then.

I don’t give a crap about magic find. I don’t give a crap about condition damage for example either. What grinds my gears is that they randomly add new gear, which is imbalanced and simply better than other, previously existing gear, which is basically like slapping everyone who invested in gear, which is now simply outshined by the new one, directly in the face. I don’t even own a set of magic find, but even as someone who is using a normal set of armor – now there is something equal, which has magic find in addition to that.

You complain about the stats but really care about the magic find, which you don’t actually care about because the gear’s better than pre-existing gear until you add the numbers and see that it’s give and take, but magic find.

Your argument has gone off in so many directions it sounds like the complaints are simply habitual now. No matter what set you compare it to you’ll be giving up points in areas to get points spread in other areas, plus you’ll have magic find which you don’t care about. The data, the actual numbers, are looking at your arguments with a very puzzled expression.

Marijan.4175:

VOLKON.1290:

So… you’re hung up on the magic find alone then? 18% total MF across all six pieces which will take months to craft… that’s the issue?

Magic Find?

Well… ok then.

I don’t give a crap about magic find. I don’t give a crap about condition damage for example either. What grinds my gears is that they randomly add new gear, which is imbalanced and simply better than other, previously existing gear, which is basically like slapping everyone who invested in gear, which is now simply outshined by the new one, directly in the face. I don’t even own a set of magic find, but even as someone who is using a normal set of armor – now there is something equal, which has magic find in addition to that.

anti-Cat-filler

Its actually weaker than every other armor except that it has magic find. The only thing it is better than is older magic find gear.

VOLKON.1290:

You complain about the stats but really care about the magic find, which you don’t actually care about because the gear’s better than pre-existing gear until you add the numbers and see that it’s give and take, but magic find.

Your argument has gone off in so many directions it sounds like the complaints are simply habitual now. No matter what set you compare it to you’ll be giving up points in areas to get points spread in other areas, plus you’ll have magic find which you don’t care about. The data, the actual numbers, are looking at your arguments with a very puzzled expression.

Why are you defensive about this Celestial gear? It has an usual primary attribute, it’s secondary attribute is already slightly better than usual, but then you get more attribute points as third, than other gear has combined. I don’t see how this could not be considered as imbalanced, regardless of whether you are using Magic Find currently or not.

If they want to change something about the way Magic Find works, sure, go ahead, but simply adding imbalanced gear to make people stop using the old one, which is now simply inferior and became a waste of money, still doesn’t seem to be a good way to realize that.

Marijan.4175:

VOLKON.1290:

So… you’re hung up on the magic find alone then? 18% total MF across all six pieces which will take months to craft… that’s the issue?

Magic Find?

Well… ok then.

I don’t give a crap about magic find. I don’t give a crap about condition damage for example either. What grinds my gears is that they randomly add new gear, which is imbalanced and simply better than other, previously existing gear, which is basically like slapping everyone who invested in gear, which is now simply outshined by the new one, directly in the face. I don’t even own a set of magic find, but even as someone who is using a normal set of armor – now there is something equal, which has magic find in addition to that.

As opposed to the celestial stats available in PvP? Where balance is more important than PvE? Here we have a game where people will go for a single weapon worth 500g just for the skin, but heaven forbid they introduce new armor that you can switch to for very little cost. Let’s put this back into perspective: You already bought your existing armor. Even if they didn’t implement celestial armor, you already spent your money. Having new armor doesn’t negate that. You can still keep and use your armor. Or you can use new armor. The choice is yours. You aren’t losing anything, but gaining an option.

I’m going to guess half the people here are also those people that will complain to customer service when they buy an item at the store and then a few days later it goes on sale. You need to learn what the norm is. Don’t set your expectations of what you should spend something on the absolutely minimum that you can get it for, but what it should normally cost you. It’ll save you a lot of disappointment and others a lot of time listening to complaints.

i really don’t understand this outcry with gear when math is so clearly pointing that celestial is not that good… not even in magic find armor since you can deal more damage with that and of course kill more thing faster…

Marijan.4175:

VOLKON.1290:

You complain about the stats but really care about the magic find, which you don’t actually care about because the gear’s better than pre-existing gear until you add the numbers and see that it’s give and take, but magic find.

Your argument has gone off in so many directions it sounds like the complaints are simply habitual now. No matter what set you compare it to you’ll be giving up points in areas to get points spread in other areas, plus you’ll have magic find which you don’t care about. The data, the actual numbers, are looking at your arguments with a very puzzled expression.

Why are you defensive about this Celestial gear? It has an usual primary attribute, it’s secondary attribute is already slightly better than usual, but then you get more attribute points as third, than other gear has combined. I don’t see how this could not be considered as imbalanced, regardless of whether you are using Magic Find currently or not.

If they want to change something about the way Magic Find works, sure, go ahead, but simply adding imbalanced gear to make people stop using the old one, which is now simply inferior and became a waste of money, still doesn’t seem to be a good way to realize that.

I’m not defensive about Celestial Gear.

I’m defensive about math.

VOLKON.1290:

Marijan.4175:

VOLKON.1290:

So… you’re hung up on the magic find alone then? 18% total MF across all six pieces which will take months to craft… that’s the issue?

Magic Find?

Well… ok then.

I don’t give a crap about magic find. I don’t give a crap about condition damage for example either. What grinds my gears is that they randomly add new gear, which is imbalanced and simply better than other, previously existing gear, which is basically like slapping everyone who invested in gear, which is now simply outshined by the new one, directly in the face. I don’t even own a set of magic find, but even as someone who is using a normal set of armor – now there is something equal, which has magic find in addition to that.

You complain about the stats but really care about the magic find, which you don’t actually care about because the gear’s better than pre-existing gear until you add the numbers and see that it’s give and take, but magic find.

Your argument has gone off in so many directions it sounds like the complaints are simply habitual now. No matter what set you compare it to you’ll be giving up points in areas to get points spread in other areas, plus you’ll have magic find which you don’t care about. The data, the actual numbers, are looking at your arguments with a very puzzled expression.

I think he’s hung up on the principle of the issue, and feels like Celestial is a superior magic find set. I can understand that, even though I too don’t bother with magic find. However the real problem here is context of what he considered superior; is it better to have more viable stats, or a few stats of higher values. For example he claims that Celestial is objectively better than the other magic find sets, like Explorer. However Explorer does have higher power and precision, so while it lacks the defensive ability of Celestial it still offers objectively better DPS. In this way Celestial is balanced and offers the same type of trade off, only within a new context.

Ignoring non-magic find armors for a moment, is it better to focus on a general all around stat allocation, or focus more on damage. Different builds would have different needs, and different players would have different preferences. It would be one thing if Celestial gear did have objectively better stats than the other magic find sets, but that is objectively false.

I don’t have a problem with celestial becoming the new go to MF set. The other MF sets still work the same, so it’s really not an issue to me. Those who really want to use MF no longer have to worry about carrying two sets of armor if they get celestial. (Unless celestial becomes the new thing to beat on)

Though, it would be nice if they made power/condition the dominant stat on explorer and traveler gear, while keeping the MF at 3% per piece.

Lambent.6375:

Though, it would be nice if they made power/condition the dominant stat on explorer and traveler gear, while keeping the MF at 3% per piece.

Tangent here, but there is a Power/Condition/MF set. I do not recall the prefix, but you can get it from the CoE armour vendor in LA.

It has more crit damage than zerker? What is this I don’t even.

We have had celestial gear for a long time now… Every trinket slot already had it. I dont even know why people are surprised we got it on armor for one… and for two, just like the trinkets most builds are not going to find them terribly useful.

More crit damage is kind of worthless with lower power and precision. The damage formula basically calls for

Power >> Precision > Crit Damage.

Lokki.1092:

We have had celestial gear for a long time now… Every trinket slot already had it. I dont even know why people are surprised we got it on armor for one… and for two, just like the trinkets most builds are not going to find them terribly useful.

The previously existing Celestial gear has proper Critical Damage and Magic Find, at least the ascended gear. The newly added one has the most Critical Damage and maximum Magic Find.

But is that, functionally, a problem? Or are people getting because numbers without context?

It’s jack of all trades master of none. If you have 6+ main stats, sure go for it. But if you only need 3 or 4, you better mix and match.

A Warrior running CoF speedruns will still want Berserker because the Vitality, Toughness, Condition Damage and Healing power don’t really matter much.
Crit Damage without high Power and Precision does less.

A bunker Guardian will still rather run Cleric, because the only damage dealing Condition Guardians have is Burning.
In addition Cleric has higher Power, Healing Power and Toughness.
Vitality usually doesn’t play very well with Healing Power anyway.

A Hybrid Necromancer will like the Power, the Precision, the Condition damage and the added Vitality and Toughness don’t hurt either!
The Healing power only really has a big impact on a few things.
Overall I think it’ll be decent for the Necromancer, but I doubt it’ll be very popular.
Well… it might be.

However I think that the real winner here is the Elementalist:
They use Power, Bleeding, Burning and Healing and also really enjoy extra survivability.

The magic find I really wonder about…
I wonder if it’ll get removed eventually.

I’ve done some calculations, and this is what I found to be the stats of a full berserker set compared to a full celestial set (both have exotic weapons and armor, and ascended trinkets):

Berserker:
Power: 1008
Precision: 693
Crit dmg: 64

Celestial:
All stats: 453
Crit dmg: 58
Magic find: 44

As you can see, the berserker set still has more crit dmg, because zerker trinkets scale insanely good. This means celestial has:
-555 less power
-240 less precision (or 11-12% less crit chance)
-6% less crit dmg

-453 more toughness, vitality, condition damage and healing power
-44% more magic find

I don’t know what this means for hybrid builds yet, but it might be interesting to mix celestial armor/weapons with berserker trinkets to gain most from both sets.

Astralporing.1957:

Marijan.4175:

You can argue that you get more stat points overall, because you aren’t as specialized as someone else by using Celestial gear, but I don’t see any reason why Celestial gear should have more or even the same amount of Critical Damage than Berserker’s gear and a maximum amount of Magic Find in addition to that.

This is indeed strange, though at least in the case of crit damage is of no big consequence (higher crit damage is meaningless with severely reduced power and crit chance). High MF value, though, is a problem, as it makes celestial gear an ideal MF set – better than the already existing specialized MF sets. Which is ridiculous.

(goes to make a celestial set for farming)

You’ve just given me a reason for making one, thanks for that :-).

I looked the stats over and they don’t impress me even as a survival build Engi main.

Of course we are all just talking theory here but has anyone actually compared any 2 of these sets out in the field? That is celestial vs say berserker for damage or celestial vs knights for survival etc. Pick a vet any vet and time which kills the fastest, see which takes the most damage or has the most hp left over at the end of the fight – not hard to do really. Just use the same char/build of course and just switch the armour.

Someone do that then come back here and put the results on the table and we can be done with all the theories. :P

Wait a min it’s 5 days to make 1 piece so we will have to wait some time to even do that by which everyone would have forgotton this post and be trolling whatever other post is the highlight of the day, oh well…. :P

Just looks like another choice to me. Although this seems to obsolete explorer’s.