Guild Wars 2

Hello,

allow me to say beforehand, that I’m sorry if this kind of thread already exists. I searched for one, but didn’t find any. Furthermore I want to say that this isn’t supposed to be a “whining”-thread (only), but I simply compared the Celestial armor to other armor pieces and I got confused if they are meant to be that way.

I used the stats of the Celestial gear that is shown in this ( http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/gw2-celestial-heavy-armor-set.jpg ) screenshot to compare them to previously existing armor pieces.

I would like to compare the heavy chest piece, shown in the screenshot above, to the previously existing one with the Berserker’s prefix in this thread as example.

The Berserker’s Draconic Coat has 101 Power, 72 Precision and 5% Critical Damage. I think the most confusing difference is, that the Celestial Chest Piece has in fact not less, but more Critical Damage than the Berserker one (6%), in addition to the maximum amount of Magic Find (3%), which you would have to sacrifice 72 of your secondary stat for actually. In addition to those boni, the Celestial one has 252 stat points evenly spread among all attributes, while a normale Chest Piece, with the Soldier’s prefix for example, only has 245 spread across it’s 3 stats.

You can argue that you get more stat points overall, because you aren’t as specialized as someone else by using Celestial gear, but I don’t see any reason why Celestial gear should have more or even the same amount of Critical Damage than Berserker’s gear and a maximum amount of Magic Find in addition to that.

It basically makes any other kind of Magic Find gear a waste of money, because it has the same amount without having to sacrifice anything, since you can’t call an evenly distributed amount of stat points, which is even more than on other armor pieces overall, in addition to the most Critical damage you can get, a sacrifice.

Furthermore an evenly spread amount of stat points is not necessarily worse than specialized stats, because many attributes synergize very well with each other (Toughness, Vitality and Healing Power for example). One of the few exceptions might be in terms of dealing burst damage, if you want to sacrifice survivability for more damage, but since you have even more Critical damage on the Celestial gear anyway and additional condition damage, why would you want to sacrifice the great survivability that the combination of Vitality, Toughness and Healing power offers and the maximum amount of Magic Find, for the tiny bit of additional damage you would earn?

The actual question imo is, why Magic Find and Critical Damage aren’t only 5/8 of a secondary attribute like all other attributes on Celestial Gear and if that is intended and going to stay that way.

I don’t know if they intended to give crafting a real purpose besides speeding up the leveling process, or if they are trying to solve the problem with people who are slowing down groups by using Magic Find gear, by giving them a new armor, which is at least as good as the previously existing ones, in addition to having Magic Find, but I honestly doubt that this is a good idea, especially since it’s so expensive and might become even more expensive and more difficult to obtain after the event, so that many players won’t be able to get this gear, which is currently the best Magic Find gear by far and has the most Critical Damage you can get, in addition to well spread attribute points.

I would like to hear your opinions about this matter. Thank you in advance and please excuse my bad English.

Marijan.4175:

The actual question imo is, why Magic Find and Critical Damage aren’t only 5/8 of a secondary attribute like all other attributes on Celestial Gear and if that is intended and going to stay that way.

This is what’s bothering me as well. I realize that ArenaNet won’t split the critical damage values into things like 1.4%, but as it is, the Celestial set has a disproportionately strong focus on critical damage. Although, giving more crit damage than a comparable armor piece that has it as a dedicated secondary stat just seems flat-out wrong to me.

I’m not even sure if it’s a problem from a strength / OP perspective, it’s just that the asymmetry bothers me.

I hope it’s not an attempt to stop magic find, because if it is it is a very misguided and poor one. The only thing that’s gonna fix this Magic Find crap is making sure there is NO gear in the game that forces you to give up real stats for bonuses like Magic Find/Karma Gain/whatever.

What I hope it actually is, is a realization that their game design is leading most players down the glass cannon path…. with a minority stacking in the opposite direction. Very few people are trying to build balanced classes, it seems, so maybe a push is helpful?

Zosk.5609:

I hope it’s not an attempt to stop magic find, because if it is it is a very misguided and poor one. The only thing that’s gonna fix this Magic Find crap is making sure there is NO gear in the game that forces you to give up real stats for bonuses like Magic Find/Karma Gain/whatever.

What I hope it actually is, is a realization that their game design is leading most players down the glass cannon path…. with a minority stacking in the opposite direction. Very few people are trying to build balanced classes, it seems, so maybe a push is helpful?

This might be true in PvE, but adding new gear with even more Critical Damage in addition to Magic Find and balanced stats isn’t going to change anything about that, since it’s a consequence of being able to avoid damage in PvE content too easily, so that killing things quickly (which the game forces you too multiple times) is often the better choice, especially since some Vitality and Toughness is not going to change much in high level fractals, which currently seem to be the most difficult part of PvE.

In WvW however, balanced or tougher builds are common, especially in zergs, since glass cannons usually don’t last long in those fights.

If critical damage is higher on the new armour, i can see alot of people thinking of getting it.

Is this similar to the idea of ascended armour? Its a massive grind to get, since you cant buy the crystal after its been used on a skill point, so will be hard to get a full set since the AH price will be massive, not for the materials but for the lack of supply and time invested per piece.

This gear is bad for WvW,. I would be interested in this just to have some damage and also have some magic find, but overall not on my list of priorities.

Critical damage don’t help without the power and precision.

I just dont’ see any glass canon wearing it. It’s mainly for balance build, or power/condition hybrid.

iCryptik.1496:

This gear is bad for WvW,. I would be interested in this just to have some damage and also have some magic find, but overall not on my list of priorities.

Would you like to explain why it’s bad for WvW? I think how well a specific kind of gear performs in WvW is dependend on the situation, but I doubt that you could be more versatile than with this gear. You have 3 defensive attributes, which have 5/8 of the attribute points a secondary stat on previously existing gear, for example with the Soldier’s prefix, which is an absolutely valid choice in WvW. 3×5/8 = 18,75, instead of 2, but that’s not a big deal if you consider the synergy between those stats. In addition to that, you get maximum magic find (unnecessary, but can’t hurt to have if you don’t have to sacrifice anything) the highest critical damage and 3 offensive attributes, instead of just power as your primary, which should result in an increase of damage as well.

laokoko.7403:

Critical damage don’t help without the power and precision.

I just dont’ see any glass canon wearing it. It’s mainly for balance build, or power/condition hybrid.

Well, you get some power and precision and it’s easy to get enough via skills or traits, to make that critical damage pay off. Furthermore there is already gear, which has Critical Damage but no Precision (Valkyrie and Cavalier). I agree with you, but some people are using this kind of gear anyway, I guess many of them are mixing it up with something else, which will probably result in worse stats than by just using this Celestial gear instead in many cases. The only drawback I see with this kind of gear is that it has considerably less power than gear with previously existing and popular prefixes – but it’s a balanced build after all and offers a much greater survivability and Magic Find in exchange. However, the fact that this gear has the highest critical damage makes you sacrifice much less than you usually would’ve to gain that survivability (not to mention maximum Magic Find).

Wolfield.9812:

If critical damage is higher on the new armour, i can see alot of people thinking of getting it.

Is this similar to the idea of ascended armour? Its a massive grind to get, since you cant buy the crystal after its been used on a skill point, so will be hard to get a full set since the AH price will be massive, not for the materials but for the lack of supply and time invested per piece.

The items are account-bound, so you have to level up your craftsmanship in order to get them by yourself. This kind of forces players to spend money on those Crafting disciplines, which are currently barely of any use, besides speeding up the leveling process of new characters.

That picture has the helm twice, and the boots are missing… :p

Either way, I can see this being an interesting choice for some professions (engineer for example) that can benefit from a more flexible stat distribution. I can certainly see my Engi (which I mostly use for open-world these days) wearing a Medium set like that, with a mix of Soldier and Berserker trinkets to round out the set’s deficiencies.

Hmm. Does a Medium set actually exist? I’m looking at the basic recipes involved, and it looks like you’ll need 750 Quartz for a full set.

Marijan.4175:

Would you like to explain why it’s bad for WvW? I think how well a specific kind of gear performs in WvW is dependend on the situation, but I doubt that you could be more versatile than with this gear.

Builds for WvW aren’t about getting the most versatile stats, but about getting stats that strengthen the build that you are currently using to its full potential. This gear does not do that for every known build that i know of, and in essence, while being “versatile”, is more of a jack of all trades but master of known.

TL;DR – it’s just not good. You give up too much.

Hi

at first i talk only from warrior POV ^^ and my opinion is precision is overrated for gw2 warriors, i’ll explain this and the relation to celestial armor.

from others games i learned something from crit chance, some examples:

at aion u had 44% base crit and 50%-55% at 525-600 crit, wich is full buff.
D3 u have enuogh at 47%non buff, 57% full buff
at gw1 warrior usually has 14%-19% crit chance from 10-14 attrib point

that 70% or plus crit chance all ppl are wearing is for burst damage, and should be reached by skills or runes for a very short moment and IMO dont worth for a heavy armored melee DPS (yes for ranged or light armored melee), note for melee clases u cant do ur DPS all the time.

my personal conclusion after playing other games at heavy armored melee bersek spec for sustained DPS is: u only need 50% crit chance, after that go for atack speed, base damage, ""crit damage"" OR ""surviability"", here comes the celestial stats on scene

If that celestial MF set can reach that breakpoint of crit chance, i think is good for overall PVE (leveling and event MF farming), but u can go better surviability+damage by other specs to do dungeons because MF dont work at chests and seems u kill more mobs at event farming than dungeons, and MF is better used when kill a big number of mobs.

time will tell, and when i have enough gold to get all the sets i want on my warrior my opinion may change.

bye and sorry for my crappy english ;P

The celestial armor will probably be replacing my zerk armor/magic find rune set.

Marijan.4175:

You can argue that you get more stat points overall, because you aren’t as specialized as someone else by using Celestial gear, but I don’t see any reason why Celestial gear should have more or even the same amount of Critical Damage than Berserker’s gear and a maximum amount of Magic Find in addition to that.

This is indeed strange, though at least in the case of crit damage is of no big consequence (higher crit damage is meaningless with severely reduced power and crit chance). High MF value, though, is a problem, as it makes celestial gear an ideal MF set – better than the already existing specialized MF sets. Which is ridiculous.

(goes to make a celestial set for farming)

As an ele, I absolutely love the extra crit damage. With our permafury crit damage is worth much more, and having mf at the same time is icing on the cake. I take back everything I said against the method for obtaining it… I will gladly grind for a month to get this gear.

The only use I’d have for this set is the magic find stat so that farming wouldn’t be as torturous as it is with normal MF gear.

Apart from that, it’s trash. Seems I’ll just keep spamming full zerker until anything better comes out.

Oh kitten Well…

The only ppl who can even capitalize on it are hybrid classes anyway, your LH support Ele’s, . ….and Crit Guardian; a contradiction in terms that for some reason can solo dungeons but only b/c they’ve gotten the least nerfs of any class since this game started … hence why it’s still my “Main”. But that doesn’t mean I’m gonna waste this many resources to build a suit that will probably be 1-upped by Ascended Gear in less than a year anyway…

I don’t even have Armor Smithing! Ain’t nobody got time for dat!

colesy.8490:

The only use I’d have for this set is the magic find stat so that farming wouldn’t be as torturous as it is with normal MF gear.

Apart from that, it’s trash. Seems I’ll just keep spamming full zerker until anything better comes out.

Well, it simply makes many other Prefixes useless, regardless of the situation, Explorer’s, Wayfarer’s and Traveler’s for example, because the new Celestial Gear is simply better, since it doesn’t sacrifice anything for the maximum amount of Magic Find.

Cavalier’s and Valkyrie’s might be worse as well, since Celestial gear has more Critical Damage and some precision. Yes, less power, but some condition damage and by far more survivability + magic find. Sure, in this case it might be depended on the situation and character, but it still doesn’t seem to be a good idea to me at all, to add a new prefix, which simply makes at least 3 previously existing prefixes completely useless and is most likely better than a few others in many situations as well, like the ones mentioned above and Soldier’s gear as another example.

Of course it’s not going to replace Berserker’s gear in higher fractals of the mists (although you might encounter guys, who are using this simply for the sake of magic find), since defensive stats are barely of any use in there and you want to deal as much damage as quickly as possible – and it would be outrageous if Celestial gear could do this too.

So basically we have another set of armor that may or may not be more or less ideal for what you might or might not be doing at the current time or in the near future.

VOLKON.1290:

So basically we have another set of armor that may or may not be more or less ideal for what you might or might not be doing at the current time or in the near future.

No, we have a new prefix that simply outshines previously existing ones, at least 3 of them completely and other ones in many situations as well, as I already mentioned.

Marijan.4175:

VOLKON.1290:

So basically we have another set of armor that may or may not be more or less ideal for what you might or might not be doing at the current time or in the near future.

No, we have a new prefix that simply outshines previously existing ones, at least 3 of them completely and other ones in many situations as well, as I already mentioned.

It’s celestial. It’s supposed to be shiny.

(Sorry… could resist.)

If you want to convince people that it’s all that big of a deal (it likely isn’t), then provide some real numbers. How much of an increase in damage do you get, for example, when comparing the different sets? (There are formulae out there to use to calculate damage and all that.) For example, people raged for a bit about ascended items. Yet it turns out, berserker to berserker equivalent (including crit) to be about a 7% damage increase in a perfect mitigation-free situation without any dodging or other forms of avoidance. Reality-wise it’s dramatically less than that.

Can someone post the exact stat numbers for every piece of celestial? I want to figure out the exact differences between it and other sets. Currently my ele has full berserkers. My base crit chance is 50% and crit damage is 110%. This is pretty (fun) overkill, but I’m just wondering if more survivability would be better, considering celestial has the same crit damage as berserkers and magic find (or so I’ve heard).

Celestial Draconic Coat
45 power
45 precision
45 toughness
45 vitality
6% critical damage
45 healing
45 condition damage
3% magic find

Bersekrer heavy armor
101 power
72 precision
5% critical damage

Explorer heavy armor
72 power
72 precision
3% magic find

Xenon.4537:

Can someone post the exact stat numbers for every piece of celestial? I want to figure out the exact differences between it and other sets. Currently my ele has full berserkers. My base crit chance is 50% and crit damage is 110%. This is pretty (fun) overkill, but I’m just wondering if more survivability would be better, considering celestial has the same crit damage as berserkers and magic find (or so I’ve heard).

I think this is the list you’re looking for…

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/gw2-celestial-light-armor-set.jpg

It has more Crit % than berserker.

Zoldyck.6241:

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/gw2-celestial-light-armor-set.jpg

It has more Crit % than berserker.

Thank you! This is exactly what I wanted. For some reason I couldn’t find it on the wiki or anything.

VOLKON.1290:

If you want to convince people that it’s all that big of a deal (it likely isn’t), then provide some real numbers. How much of an increase in damage do you get, for example, when comparing the different sets? (There are formulae out there to use to calculate damage and all that.) For example, people raged for a bit about ascended items. Yet it turns out, berserker to berserker equivalent (including crit) to be about a 7% damage increase in a perfect mitigation-free situation without any dodging or other forms of avoidance. Reality-wise it’s dramatically less than that.

So, stats like +6% Critical Damage aren’t real numbers anymore? You don’t need to calculate anything to see that maximum Magic Find + 1 Secondary and +1 Primary attribute is considerably worse than maximum Magic Find, + 5/8 of the Secondary Attribute * 6 + the highest Critical Damage obtainable. This already makes is simply better than 3 previously existing prefixes.

Xenon.4537:

Can someone post the exact stat numbers for every piece of celestial? I want to figure out the exact differences between it and other sets. Currently my ele has full berserkers. My base crit chance is 50% and crit damage is 110%. This is pretty (fun) overkill, but I’m just wondering if more survivability would be better, considering celestial has the same crit damage as berserkers and magic find (or so I’ve heard).

I would appreciate if you could actually read my post, although it turned out to be kind of long. I provided a link to a screenshot of Celestial heavy armor already. It doesn’t only have the same Critical Damage as Berserker’s gear, but partially even more, in addition to the maximum amount of magic find, which is basically what this whole thread is about.

Marijan.4175:

I would appreciate if you could actually read my post, although it turned out to be kind of long. I provided a link to a screenshot of Celestial heavy armor already.

Sorry, I’ve been known to overlook the most obvious things. X.x

Also its 9AM here and I’m not officially awake until like 2pm. You are pretty much talking to a zombie.

Hmm… this is interesting.

Might make a good MF set. The old MF set might have to be retired. Though, probably too pricey just for a MF set.

Marijan.4175:

VOLKON.1290:

If you want to convince people that it’s all that big of a deal (it likely isn’t), then provide some real numbers. How much of an increase in damage do you get, for example, when comparing the different sets? (There are formulae out there to use to calculate damage and all that.) For example, people raged for a bit about ascended items. Yet it turns out, berserker to berserker equivalent (including crit) to be about a 7% damage increase in a perfect mitigation-free situation without any dodging or other forms of avoidance. Reality-wise it’s dramatically less than that.

So, stats like +6% Critical Damage aren’t real numbers anymore? You don’t need to calculate anything to see that maximum Magic Find + 1 Secondary and +1 Primary attribute is considerably worse than maximum Magic Find, + 5/8 of the Secondary Attribute * 6 + the highest Critical Damage obtainable. This already makes is simply better than 3 previously existing prefixes.

Not without context, no. 6% of what? If damage overall is lowered due to less power, etc. then you have an additional 1% of a smaller number overall, meaning the total could very well be less. Here’s the skinny. Critical hits have a base damage multiplier of 150% to the base damage of the attack, right? Adding additional crit damage means, in this case, you’re going from 155% damage on a crit to 156% damage on a crit. However if the base damage is lower, you’re still looking at a lower overall value of damage after adding in the crit bonus.

laokoko.7403:

Critical damage don’t help without the power and precision.

I just dont’ see any glass canon wearing it. It’s mainly for balance build, or power/condition hybrid.

Precisely, at this low rate of precision with full celestial, to increase dps faster, you need x% more critical chance not x% more critical damage. I’m sure the devs thought it through…this is almost, I think of it as a defensive rampager gear for ranger, engi, necro, and ele. You think its more dps than zerk due to just the crit dmg? Zerk is way more dps for sure

Anyone know the full stat list for medium armor, complete with accessories? I’d like to know the real total for this set, not just the armor.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Anyone know the full stat list for medium armor, complete with accessories? I’d like to know the real total for this set, not just the armor.

There aren’t any new accessories that I’m aware of, so use the old numbers for those.

(If there are… link please?)

VOLKON.1290:

Marijan.4175:

VOLKON.1290:

If you want to convince people that it’s all that big of a deal (it likely isn’t), then provide some real numbers. How much of an increase in damage do you get, for example, when comparing the different sets? (There are formulae out there to use to calculate damage and all that.) For example, people raged for a bit about ascended items. Yet it turns out, berserker to berserker equivalent (including crit) to be about a 7% damage increase in a perfect mitigation-free situation without any dodging or other forms of avoidance. Reality-wise it’s dramatically less than that.

So, stats like +6% Critical Damage aren’t real numbers anymore? You don’t need to calculate anything to see that maximum Magic Find + 1 Secondary and +1 Primary attribute is considerably worse than maximum Magic Find, + 5/8 of the Secondary Attribute * 6 + the highest Critical Damage obtainable. This already makes is simply better than 3 previously existing prefixes.

Not without context, no. 6% of what? If damage overall is lowered due to less power, etc. then you have an additional 1% of a smaller number overall, meaning the total could very well be less. Here’s the skinny. Critical hits have a base damage multiplier of 150% to the base damage of the attack, right? Adding additional crit damage means, in this case, you’re going from 155% damage on a crit to 156% damage on a crit. However if the base damage is lower, you’re still looking at a lower overall value of damage after adding in the crit bonus.

PREACH!!!

The new armor looks like very good general use gear. Note: I gave the boots the same stats as the shoulders since that is what the berserker armor has.
_______ pwr pre crit
Celestial 140 140 19%
Berserker 315 224 16%

So you will lose 175 power and 84 precision to gain 3% critical damage. You also gain 140 toughness, 140 vitality, 140 healing, 140 conditional damage and (everyone favorite whipping boy) 18% magic find. The armor value is the same for both.

I guess the min/maxers and theorists will need to determine if the loss of all that power and precision is offset by the gain of 3% more critical damage and the “survive ability” stats.

LyricDawnhagen.7803:

The new armor looks like very good general use gear. Note: I gave the boots the same stats as the shoulders since that is what the berserker armor has.
_______ pwr pre crit
Celestial 140 140 19%
Berserker 315 224 16%

So you will lose 175 power and 84 precision to gain 3% critical damage. You also gain 140 toughness, 140 vitality, 140 healing, 140 conditional damage and (everyone favorite whipping boy) 18% magic find. The armor value is the same for both.

I guess the min/maxers and theorists will need to determine if the loss of all that power and precision is offset by the gain of 3% more critical damage and the “survive ability” stats.

I’m an engineer, a profession built around dynamically changing our role in combat to suit what the party needs, and by far the most versatile profession (no; elementalists don’t even come close), so this new Celestial prefix is ideal for us. There are few professions that could justify a jack-of-all-trades prefix like this one, and we’re one of them, so I plan to go full Celestial as soon as possible for my general PvE play.

I want a set as well for my engineer as well. I just do not think it is the be all end all armor for all builds and roles that will replace every other stat distribution that people are worried about. It will work well for people that are not “specializing” their character but for the people that want to tweak every last point of damage (or healing or survival) out of their builds and gear, it just will not give them what they want.

well, if you are “only” wearing celestial armor and berserker everything else, the difference is going to be small. But you gain very little too.

But if you wear a full set of celestial armor/weapon/jewel, you won’t get anywhere close to berserker dps.

If people arn’t using celestial ascended jewel before, chances are they won’t go celestial armor now.

The people who most likely going to use celestial are the one using celestial ascended jewel now.

LyricDawnhagen.7803:

I want a set as well for my engineer as well. I just do not think it is the be all end all armor for all builds and roles that will replace every other stat distribution that people are worried about. It will work well for people that are not “specializing” their character but for the people that want to tweak every last point of damage (or healing or survival) out of their builds and gear, it just will not give them what they want.

That is obviously the design intent. If you want the absolute max out of your stats for this or that role then you obviously will need armor suited for that. Zerker is likely to stay the DPS king for the foreseeable future, and Celestial certainly won’t be challenging it in the least.

But for people like me who like to run hybrids and swap skills and traits around from time to time the current armor set up is a pain. I find myself stuck within a limited window of what my profession can do because of my armor. For example I currently use Knight’s armor, so a condition build is pretty much out of the question. Right now if I wanted to change to a condition build I’d need a whole new set of exotic armor. That can be expensive, as I’m sure you know. So for my playstyle one armor set that can do everything well is ideal, I don’t care if it can’t do anything “great.”

VOLKON.1290:

Not without context, no. 6% of what? If damage overall is lowered due to less power, etc. then you have an additional 1% of a smaller number overall, meaning the total could very well be less. Here’s the skinny. Critical hits have a base damage multiplier of 150% to the base damage of the attack, right? Adding additional crit damage means, in this case, you’re going from 155% damage on a crit to 156% damage on a crit. However if the base damage is lower, you’re still looking at a lower overall value of damage after adding in the crit bonus.

Nobody ever claimed that it has you are going to deal more damage than with Berserker’s gear by using Celestial, nor that it’s going to take over it’s role in PvE, which would be outrageous, as I already mentioned.

The thing is, that the even higher Critical damage in combination with the diminishing returns of Precision, which is kind of useless (less useful than increasing something else) to increase after a certain point, make you sacrifice much less offensive power than you would have to for that amount of survivability and Magic Find otherwise.

You don’t have to do any kind of math or calculation to see that this gear is better than the previously existing Magic Find armors and it’s just weird, that everything is 5/8 of a usual secondary attribute, but Magic Find (which is equal to the usual amount, which you would have to sacrifice a secondary attribute for otherwise) and Critical Damage, which is even higher than in Berserker’s gear.

… and take a look at Cavalier’s gear for example: Toughness, Power, Critical Damage. The Celestial has more Critical Damage. Instead of 101 Toughness on a chest piece for example, you get 45 Toughness, 45 Vitality and 45 Healing Power = 135 defensive stats, which synergize very well with each other. Instead of 75 Power you get only 45, but 45 Precision, which makes the Critical Damage much more valuable, and 45 Condition Damage (which can be kind of useless, but most builds apply conditions anyway, whether they are focused on condition damage or not). It’s up to you if you prefer the Celestial over the Cavalier’s gear, but the fact that the Celestial has also maximum Magic Find, in addition to it’s already at least equal stats, makes this armor imbalanced for me.

laokoko.7403:

Critical damage don’t help without the power and precision.

I just dont’ see any glass canon wearing it. It’s mainly for balance build, or power/condition hybrid.

Actually, elementalist’s arcane skills are all auto-crit and one even lets you auto-crit on regular skills too. I don’t know as much about other prof. but ele for sure can use this gear decently for basic tasks.

I originally wanted celestial to use as a stage between valk and berserker for wvw but now I think i’ll just use it to replace my masterwork magic find set and skin it for fun. After all, its basically free gear you can farm up mats for on a lowbie alt doing dailies.

Solo.9027:

laokoko.7403:

Critical damage don’t help without the power and precision.

I just dont’ see any glass canon wearing it. It’s mainly for balance build, or power/condition hybrid.

Actually, elementalist’s arcane skills are all auto-crit and one even lets you auto-crit on regular skills too. I don’t know as much about other prof. but ele for sure can use this gear decently for basic tasks.

I originally wanted celestial to use as a stage between valk and berserker for wvw but now I think i’ll just use it to replace my masterwork magic find set and skin it for fun. After all, its basically free gear you can farm up mats for on a lowbie alt doing dailies.

I did say in my other post hybrid class elemntal/guardian probably the best suitable for celestial, and power/condition hybrid.

My main point is those 3% critical damage going to do nothing. If you want dps you obviously go power/precision.

You only use celestial because you are build for balance. You don’t use it to loss a bunch of power and precision which is far more important than those 3% critical damage.

laokoko.7403:

If people arn’t using celestial ascended jewel before, chances are they won’t go celestial armor now.

The thing with the ascended gear, which would have the Celestial prefix is, that the Critical Damage of those items (Celestial Sigil for example) isn’t higher, but lower than the Critical Damage on ascended gear which attributes are similar to Berserker’s gear. Same goes for Magic Find.

Marijan.4175:

Nobody ever claimed that it has you are going to deal more damage than with Berserker’s gear by using Celestial, nor that it’s going to take over it’s role in PvE, which would be outrageous, as I already mentioned.

The thing is, that the even higher Critical damage in combination with the diminishing returns of Precision, which is kind of useless (less useful than increasing something else) to increase after a certain point, make you sacrifice much less offensive power than you would have to for that amount of survivability and Magic Find otherwise.

You don’t have to do any kind of math or calculation to see that this gear is better than the previously existing Magic Find armors and it’s just weird, that everything is 5/8 of a usual secondary attribute, but Magic Find (which is equal to the usual amount, which you would have to sacrifice a secondary attribute for otherwise) and Critical Damage, which is even higher than in Berserker’s gear.

… and take a look at Cavalier’s gear for example: Toughness, Power, Critical Damage. The Celestial has more Critical Damage. Instead of 101 Toughness on a chest piece for example, you get 45 Toughness, 45 Vitality and 45 Healing Power = 135 defensive stats, which synergize very well with each other. Instead of 75 Power you get only 45, but 45 Precision, which makes the Critical Damage much more valuable, and 45 Condition Damage (which can be kind of useless, but most builds apply conditions anyway, whether they are focused on condition damage or not). It’s up to you if you prefer the Celestial over the Cavalier’s gear, but the fact that the Celestial has also maximum Magic Find, in addition to it’s already at least equal stats, makes this armor imbalanced for me.

You’re still hung up on pre-calculation numbers without looking to see what they actually do or mean. For example, that extra 45 precision. The amount of precision required to increase the chance to critical hit by 1% is calculated by this formula: (0.0024 × Level^2) + (0.06 × Level) + 1. So at level 80, it takes 21 points to increase the chance to crit by 1%. You basically get a critical chance increase of 2%, and sacrifice the damage you’d do with those hits. It balances out. It’s really not a big deal.

laokoko.7403:

well, if you are “only” wearing celestial armor and berserker everything else, the difference is going to be small. But you gain very little too.

But if you wear a full set of celestial armor/weapon/jewel, you won’t get anywhere close to berserker dps.

If people arn’t using celestial ascended jewel before, chances are they won’t go celestial armor now.

The people who most likely going to use celestial are the one using celestial ascended jewel now.

I used celestial juwels before patch for ele and engineer in wvw. It works best for me – I tried any stat combo. It was never like " I don’T know what to build" – it was/is best in slot for me for these two classes in wvw. And now the new armor skales even better – so yes there is definitly room for this stats. Also for “best-in-slot”.

The problem with Critical damage, is that it is not as useful if you don’t have the Power and Precision to back it up, as it multiplies damage. Thus a full Celestial set up will still not be doing even close to the sort of crits that any other gear set with +crit damage would do. Celestial has also had a higher focus on crit damage (divinity runes give +10 to all stats +2% crit damage), and the jewellery also give a healthy dose of crit damage.

However it is completely insane that the crit damage would not only be disproportionately over represented, but close or higher (wtf?) than on a crit focus gear set.

VOLKON.1290:

You’re still hung up on pre-calculation numbers without looking to see what they actually do or mean. For example, that extra 45 precision. The amount of precision required to increase the chance to critical hit by 1% is calculated by this formula: (0.0024 × Level^2) + (0.06 × Level) + 1. So at level 80, it takes 21 points to increase the chance to crit by 1%. You basically get a critical chance increase of 2%, and sacrifice the damage you’d do with those hits. It balances out. It’s really not a big deal.

I think you still didn’t get, that I’m not saying that this armor performs better than another armor in terms of dealing damage. The Critical Damage attribute is so high on Celestial gear, that you have to sacrifice (yes, sacrifice, it deals less damage than an offensive armor, as I said multiple times) much less than you usually would’ve for this amount of balanced and versatile survivability. In addition to that, it has maximum magic find. It’s basically kind of balanced gear (other armors compensate for the a bit lower attributes through specialization and synergies), but it also has the maximum amount of Magic Find, which you usually have to sacrifice a lot for to get, which simply outshines the previously existing Magic Find gear.

There is no way to deny that those 3 Prefixes are considerably worse than Celestial gear and imo being simply better than 3 other kinds of gear is reason enough to call something imbalanced.

• I just noticed, that Magic Find is usually even a primary attribute. So you can consider this armor as a usual set, which has 1 primary attribute (maximum Magic Find), 1 a bit better secondary attribute (a bit more Critical Damage than a usual secondary attribute has) and +45 * 6 as third attribute, which are alone more attribute points than other gear, without Magic Find or Critical Damage has in total.

There is no way to consider this balanced, seriously.

Marijan.4175:

VOLKON.1290:

You’re still hung up on pre-calculation numbers without looking to see what they actually do or mean. For example, that extra 45 precision. The amount of precision required to increase the chance to critical hit by 1% is calculated by this formula: (0.0024 × Level^2) + (0.06 × Level) + 1. So at level 80, it takes 21 points to increase the chance to crit by 1%. You basically get a critical chance increase of 2%, and sacrifice the damage you’d do with those hits. It balances out. It’s really not a big deal.

I think you still didn’t get, that I’m not saying that this armor performs better than another armor in terms of dealing damage. The Critical Damage attribute is so high on Celestial gear, that you have to sacrifice (yes, sacrifice, it deals less damage than an offensive armor, as I said multiple times) much less than you usually would’ve for this amount of balanced and versatile survivability. In addition to that, it has maximum magic find. It’s basically kind of balanced gear (other armors compensate for the a bit lower attributes through specialization and synergies), but it also has the maximum amount of Magic Find, which you usually have to sacrifice a lot for to get, which simply outshines the previously existing Magic Find gear.

There is no way to deny that those 3 Prefixes are considerably worse than Celestial gear and imo being simply better than 3 other kinds of gear is reason enough to call something imbalanced.

So… you’re hung up on the magic find alone then? 18% total MF across all six pieces which will take months to craft… that’s the issue?

Magic Find?

Well… ok then.

Aren’t they trying to find ways to allow players to stack magic find without gimping their stats anyways? It makes no sense to be complaining about this.. It’s either you keep your current set and ignore that there’s a new set out, or you say to yourself “Hey, now I can get the same magic find without losing as many stats.” You didn’t lose anything, so quit complaining.

Marijan.4175:

VOLKON.1290:

You’re still hung up on pre-calculation numbers without looking to see what they actually do or mean. For example, that extra 45 precision. The amount of precision required to increase the chance to critical hit by 1% is calculated by this formula: (0.0024 × Level^2) + (0.06 × Level) + 1. So at level 80, it takes 21 points to increase the chance to crit by 1%. You basically get a critical chance increase of 2%, and sacrifice the damage you’d do with those hits. It balances out. It’s really not a big deal.

I think you still didn’t get, that I’m not saying that this armor performs better than another armor in terms of dealing damage. The Critical Damage attribute is so high on Celestial gear, that you have to sacrifice (yes, sacrifice, it deals less damage than an offensive armor, as I said multiple times) much less than you usually would’ve for this amount of balanced and versatile survivability. In addition to that, it has maximum magic find. It’s basically kind of balanced gear (other armors compensate for the a bit lower attributes through specialization and synergies), but it also has the maximum amount of Magic Find, which you usually have to sacrifice a lot for to get, which simply outshines the previously existing Magic Find gear.

There is no way to deny that those 3 Prefixes are considerably worse than Celestial gear and imo being simply better than 3 other kinds of gear is reason enough to call something imbalanced.

• I just noticed, that Magic Find is usually even a primary attribute. So you can consider this armor as a usual set, which has 1 primary attribute (maximum Magic Find), 1 a bit better secondary attribute (a bit more Critical Damage than a usual secondary attribute has) and +45 * 6 as third attribute, which are alone more attribute points than other gear, without Magic Find or Critical Damage has in total.

There is no way to consider this balanced, seriously.

Arena Net did say that they were going to start making changes to magic find and how it is balanced alongside other stats. Looks like this is the first example of what they’re doing, along with account based magic find from achievements (hey, wait a second, that was actually my idea…..I’ll see if I can find the thread I made). My advice; completely forget how magic find worked previously and ignore those other armor sets; they are outdated with the current balance goal of the game and are completely irrelevant.

Edit: My old thread that suggests, among other things, having progressive magic find, gold find, XP, and karma buffs tied to achievements.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Post-level-80-character-progression/first#post2157854

i don’t know what you summed up, but not considering the trinket a full set of armor give you only 125 all stats agains 252 on main stat in other armor sets…

so berserker have less critical damage but more power and precision… celestial have more critical damage but less power and precision… so what your common sense suggest?

also i tryed celestial trinkets in pvp and it’s not better than dedicated bunker gear… so no, i don’t think it will unbalance wvwvw… and wvwvw is already unbalanced around numbers of people in zergs as it is, the problem is not the stats on your armor!