Guild Wars 2

What does this even mean?

Almost all complaint posts about ascended equips have the exact same argument, that they have to have ascended to stay competitive.

But what exactly is there in this game to be competitive with?

PVE
- Not applicable at all, there are no benefits over exotic.
WvW
- Gear means nothing since most of the time its about who has the bigger group
- I guarantee almost everyone complaining about higher gear has absolutely stomped a level 10 wearing basic gear and enjoyed it
SPVP
- Not applicable

Please, enlighten me how if you dont have ascended equips you suddenly do half damage and get one-shotted because im not seeing it at all.

What gear do you wear? Whites? If not, why not? You’ll find the answer.

Columba.9730:

What gear do you wear? Whites? If not, why not? You’ll find the answer.

I fail to see how this is relevant, I wear exotics because I had nothing left to spend my money on. Sure, the extra stats are okay but I fail to see how its necessary or gamebreaking if I dont have them. I guarantee I can still be competitive in WvW wearing rares too.

Don’t know how WvW works on NA servers, but in the top EU brackets it’s not just zerg vs zerg or a karma train race. Here small groups are used as a distraction or to work behind enemy lines and therefore stats are very important.

Jrunyon.3012:

PVE
- Not applicable at all, there are no benefits over exotic.

“Competitive” might not be the correct word to describe the situation with PvE. It has more to do with content gating and the change in end game goals that leads to grouping elitism.

My primary concern with the addition of statistically superior gear is that lvl-80 gameplay is going to center around acquisition of said gear. It isn’t so much the gear itself, it’s what it does to the focus of the game. It promotes a style of play, and in-game attitudes that I would rather not be a part of.

Jrunyon.3012:

Columba.9730:

What gear do you wear? Whites? If not, why not? You’ll find the answer.

I fail to see how this is relevant, I wear exotics because I had nothing left to spend my money on. Sure, the extra stats are okay but I fail to see how its necessary or gamebreaking if I dont have them. I guarantee I can still be competitive in WvW wearing rares too.

So you are being hypocritical, since stats don’t matter. Are you saying that all exotics just HAPPEN to have the best appearance?

Clearly you don’t WvWvW much or well if you think it’s all Zerg vs Zerg.

Columba.9730:

Jrunyon.3012:

Columba.9730:

What gear do you wear? Whites? If not, why not? You’ll find the answer.

I fail to see how this is relevant, I wear exotics because I had nothing left to spend my money on. Sure, the extra stats are okay but I fail to see how its necessary or gamebreaking if I dont have them. I guarantee I can still be competitive in WvW wearing rares too.

So you are being hypocritical, since stats don’t matter. Are you saying that all exotics just HAPPEN to have the best appearance?

Clearly you don’t WvWvW much or well if you think it’s all Zerg vs Zerg.

Who said anything about zergs? Do you regularly go solo in WvW? That seems like suicide in my opinion. Also, I didnt say anything about appearance, did you even read my post at all?

Jrunyon.3012:

What does this even mean?

Almost all complaint posts about ascended equips have the exact same argument, that they have to have ascended to stay competitive.

But what exactly is there in this game to be competitive with?

PVE
- Not applicable at all, there are no benefits over exotic.
WvW
- Gear means nothing since most of the time its about who has the bigger group
- I guarantee almost everyone complaining about higher gear has absolutely stomped a level 10 wearing basic gear and enjoyed it
SPVP
- Not applicable

Please, enlighten me how if you dont have ascended equips you suddenly do half damage and get one-shotted because im not seeing it at all.

Lets see here -

PVE
- Not applicable at all, there are no benefits over exotic.

Wrong ~ The best ascended games are roughly 40% better than exotics

WvW
- Gear means nothing since most of the time its about who has the bigger group
- I guarantee almost everyone complaining about higher gear has absolutely stomped a level 10 wearing basic gear and enjoyed it

You obviously don’t spend time in WvWvW then ~ Gear is everything. Pre-Ascended, the PvP aspect of GW2 was more like Class x Skill x [Gear*] vs Class x Skill x [Gear*] and post-Ascended it will be Class x Skill x Ascended x [Gear]

*Pre-ascended most players who regularly play in WvW will be fully equipped in exotics/best sigils/runes. Now with Ascended gear, if you want to remain competitive, you’ll have to stay on the same gear level as your opponents otherwise, you risk being totally steamrolled.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Jrunyon.3012:

What does this even mean?

Almost all complaint posts about ascended equips have the exact same argument, that they have to have ascended to stay competitive.

But what exactly is there in this game to be competitive with?

PVE
- Not applicable at all, there are no benefits over exotic.
WvW
- Gear means nothing since most of the time its about who has the bigger group
- I guarantee almost everyone complaining about higher gear has absolutely stomped a level 10 wearing basic gear and enjoyed it
SPVP
- Not applicable

Please, enlighten me how if you dont have ascended equips you suddenly do half damage and get one-shotted because im not seeing it at all.

Lets see here -

PVE
- Not applicable at all, there are no benefits over exotic.

Wrong ~ The best ascended games are roughly 40% better than exotics

WvW
- Gear means nothing since most of the time its about who has the bigger group
- I guarantee almost everyone complaining about higher gear has absolutely stomped a level 10 wearing basic gear and enjoyed it

You obviously don’t spend time in WvWvW then ~ Gear is everything. Pre-Ascended, the PvP aspect of GW2 was more like Class x Skill x [Gear*] vs Class x Skill x [Gear*] and post-Ascended it will be Class x Skill x Ascended x [Gear]

*Pre-ascended most players who regularly play in WvW will be fully equipped in exotics/best sigils/runes. Now with Ascended gear, if you want to remain competitive, you’ll have to stay on the same gear level as your opponents otherwise, you risk being totally steamrolled.

Lol, nice misinformed ramble you have there. I dont even want to know where you pulled that 40% figure out of.

Trust me, the best ascended items are ‘roughly’ about 40% better than regular exotics.

This pic is one of the lower quality rings, look at the difference in stats. There are ascended items that have been linked that have had vendor values of 6g

Exotic Berserker Ring total stats combined 155 +6% CTD
That low end Ascended RIng total stats combined 222 + 5% CTD + Agony Resis + MF

wow it gives much more stats than i previously thought o.o

doesnt even have infusion in it too

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Trust me, the best ascended items are ‘roughly’ about 40% better than regular exotics.

This pic is one of the lower quality rings, look at the difference in stats. There are ascended items that have been linked that have had vendor values of 6g

Exotic Berserker Ring total stats combined 155 +6% CTD
That low end Ascended RIng total stats combined 222 + 5% CTD + Agony Resis + MF

You’re comparing apples to oranges. You need to look at items with similar stat distributions. If I remember correctly in WoW each additional point toward a particular stat would have a higher cost against the total stat budget of the item. I’m not sure how the system works in GW2 but I imagine it’s roughly the same.

It would help and not totally destabilize your argument if you actually compared ascended rings with berserker’s stats with their exotic equivalent.

Take that Ancient Karka Shell accessory with +25 to all stats. It’s got a lot more total stat points than an exotic berserker’s earring despite being of the same rarity, not to mention that there’s no jewel in the game that provides + to all stats at the moment.

Red Ring of Death vs an Exotic Berserker’s Ring with Exotic Jewel is much less extreme.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Trust me, the best ascended items are ‘roughly’ about 40% better than regular exotics.

This pic is one of the lower quality rings, look at the difference in stats. There are ascended items that have been linked that have had vendor values of 6g

Exotic Berserker Ring total stats combined 155 +6% CTD
That low end Ascended RIng total stats combined 222 + 5% CTD + Agony Resis + MF

Why does that ring lack a name?

tkalamba.2541:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Trust me, the best ascended items are ‘roughly’ about 40% better than regular exotics.

This pic is one of the lower quality rings, look at the difference in stats. There are ascended items that have been linked that have had vendor values of 6g

Exotic Berserker Ring total stats combined 155 +6% CTD
That low end Ascended RIng total stats combined 222 + 5% CTD + Agony Resis + MF

Why does that ring lack a name?

Because it was linked with a data-mined code.

Exotic Berserker’s Ring (Without Slot item)

+67 Power
+48 Precision
+3% Critcal Damage

Ascended Berserker’s Stat Ring (Without “Slot” item) (Crystalline Ring) (Keep in mind you can’t actually do this since their stats have their “Slot” item naturally inside of it when you get it, however they are split so you can compare them)

+71 Power
+50 Precision
+4% Critical Damage

Exotic Berserker’s Ring (With Exotic Ruby Slot item)

+92 Power
+63 Precision
+6% Critical Damage

Ascended Berserker’s Stat Ring (With “Slot” item) (Crystalline Band)

+103 Power
+68 Precision
+8% Critical Damage

So comparing the two:

+92 Power
+63 Precision
+6% Critical Damage

VS

+103 Power
+68 Precision
+8% Critical Damage

What people seem to not understand is that any divinity type item that gives bonuses to ALL stats will give more stat points by far than any other item. However they won’t give them highly to any specific stat point, thus getting lower specific returns. Thus apples to oranges.

As someone said before, same applies to the Karka Shell Exotic.

As you can see, Berserker’s Ring Exotic vs Crystalline Band Ascended are not hugely different. 10-11% difference overall.

EndlessDreamer.6780:

Exotic Berserker’s Ring (Without Slot item)

+67 Power
+48 Precision
+3% Critcal Damage

Ascended Berserker’s Stat Ring (Without “Slot” item) (Crystalline Ring) (Keep in mind you can’t actually do this since their stats have their “Slot” item naturally inside of it when you get it, however they are split so you can compare them)

+71 Power
+50 Precision
+4% Critical Damage

Exotic Berserker’s Ring (With Exotic Ruby Slot item)

+92 Power
+63 Precision
+6% Critical Damage

Ascended Berserker’s Stat Ring (With “Slot” item) (Crystalline Band)

+103 Power
+68 Precision
+8% Critical Damage

So comparing the two:

+92 Power
+63 Precision
+6% Critical Damage

VS

+103 Power
+68 Precision
+8% Critical Damage

What people seem to not understand is that any divinity type item that gives bonuses to ALL stats will give more stat points by far than any other item. However they won’t give them highly to any specific stat point, thus getting lower specific returns. Thus apples to oranges.

As you can see, Berserker’s Ring Exotic vs Crystalline Band Ascended are not hugely different. 10-11% difference overall.

This makes for a much better comparison. The image above is basically the Ascended version of the Ancient Karka Shell.

And for the sake of squashing arguments:

Ancient Karka Shell (Exotic) (150 Base Stats total + 3% MF and Critical)
+25 Power
+25 Precision
+25 Toughness
+25 Vitality
+3% Critical Damage
+25 Healing Power
+25 Condition Damage
+3% Magic Find
Upgrade Slot Unused

Unnamed Mystery Ascended Item (186 Total “Base” stats + 4% Condition Damage)
+31 Power
+31 Precision
+31 Toughness
+31 Vitality
+4% Critical Damage
+31 Healing Power
+31 Condition Damage
“Upgrade Slot”

19-20% difference.

Now the problem with comparing these two is that, unfortunately, there is no “All stats small amount” upgrade component for Exotics yet, so thus I removed what would be equivalent of that from the Ascended item. Yes, that removes 48 stat points. But if it did exist, it would most likely add +6 to every stat like the other one, just a bit lower, thus giving the Exotic 36 more stat points (55 if you use an exotic level jewel).

Thus, the perceived gap between ascended and Exotic is actually much lower than people think.

nachtnebel.9168:

Don’t know how WvW works on NA servers, but in the top EU brackets it’s not just zerg vs zerg or a karma train race. Here small groups are used as a distraction or to work behind enemy lines and therefore stats are very important.

WvW is still pretty imbalanced as is, no 2 groups will be on equal footing so there will always be a stats inbalance. There are more variables at play than just gear. Traits, classes, food, guild perks and whatnot all will effect the outcome of battles to the point where the stats offered by Ascended gear is almost meaningless.

Even small groups, the stats won’t play as much of a role, as the group composition, tactics, and overall skill level can still override any stat differences. Also, you throw siege into the equation, and even a level 10 character with no gear whatsoever can faceroll a fully geared level 80 with a ballista, or arrowcarts if used correctly.

Have you ever faced a force which controlled all 3 orbs before they were removed? They would have had more stats than you technically, and many players were still able to overcome those differences. The small increases of stats offered by Ascended gear will not make up for lack of skill.

The role stats play in WvW is often over exagerated.

EndlessDreamer.6780:

And for the sake of squashing arguments:

Ancient Karka Shell (Exotic) (150 Base Stats total + 3% MF and Critical)
+25 Power
+25 Precision
+25 Toughness
+25 Vitality
+3% Critical Damage
+25 Healing Power
+25 Condition Damage
+3% Magic Find
Upgrade Slot Unused

Unnamed Mystery Ascended Item (186 Total “Base” stats + 4% Condition Damage)
+31 Power
+31 Precision
+31 Toughness
+31 Vitality
+4% Critical Damage
+31 Healing Power
+31 Condition Damage
“Upgrade Slot”

19-20% difference.

Now the problem with comparing these two is that, unfortunately, there is no “All stats small amount” upgrade component for Exotics yet, so thus I removed what would be equivalent of that from the Ascended item. Yes, that removes 48 stat points. But if it did exist, it would most likely add +6 to every stat like the other one, just a bit lower, thus giving the Exotic 36 more stat points (55 if you use an exotic level jewel).

Thus, the perceived gap between ascended and Exotic is actually much lower than people think.

You should probably also break it down for a total stats pool.

With the 3 possible slots, being 2 rings and a back piece, what would the increase be to a total stat pool of a character? I’m willing to bet roughly 3% increase over a character geared in full exotics.

Demarc.4906:

tkalamba.2541:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Trust me, the best ascended items are ‘roughly’ about 40% better than regular exotics.

This pic is one of the lower quality rings, look at the difference in stats. There are ascended items that have been linked that have had vendor values of 6g

Exotic Berserker Ring total stats combined 155 +6% CTD
That low end Ascended RIng total stats combined 222 + 5% CTD + Agony Resis + MF

Why does that ring lack a name?

Because it was linked with a data-mined code.

Makes sense, thanks. Any reason why the data mined items still don’t show the names? Is it because technically they aren’t available? or are names pulled from some other data?

Epistemic.8013:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Trust me, the best ascended items are ‘roughly’ about 40% better than regular exotics.

This pic is one of the lower quality rings, look at the difference in stats. There are ascended items that have been linked that have had vendor values of 6g

Exotic Berserker Ring total stats combined 155 +6% CTD
That low end Ascended RIng total stats combined 222 + 5% CTD + Agony Resis + MF

You’re comparing apples to oranges. You need to look at items with similar stat distributions. If I remember correctly in WoW each additional point toward a particular stat would have a higher cost against the total stat budget of the item. I’m not sure how the system works in GW2 but I imagine it’s roughly the same.

You imagined wrong. In GW2 all items with 3 stats have 1 Major stat and 2 Minor stats. The # example precision or power is always the same only the Major one has slightly more. For example an exotic chest has 101 Major stats 72 minor stats regardless of what stat it is (crit damage% and MF% are the only exceptions but they are roughly equally balanced point per point also to that formula.) Basically I wouldn’t be telling people they are comparing apples and oranges if I were you. And I think ascended are speculated at close to a 40% increase in stats (including armor as toughness also?) so this whole topic makes it seem like the OP needs to research more.

One of the achievements of GW2 is making the stats and their effects on your damage very transparent and not require intense math whatsoever to calculate benefits. A good portion of everything stat wise in the game can be calculated with simple formula.

That’s easy enough actually.

If we’re not looking at the wonder item that is scaring the bejeezus out of everyone…

Ascended Back Items Provide (Not counting Crit damage or MF)
+56 Main Stat
+35 Secondary Stat
+35 Tertiary Stat

Ascended Rings Provide (Again, not counting crit damage or MF cause percentages can bite me)
+103 Main Stat
+68 Secondary Stat
+68 Tertiary Stat

So two rings and a back item can give you 604 Stat points. Which is impressive.
Exotics I am assuming are going to be using the highest given slot item that matches its main stat set like ascended do for simplicity’s sake.

Exotics back items provide (Going off of level 80 guild backpack, cause ghost eater’s hide has lower stats? I dunno. Easier to get backpacks anyway.)
+45 Main (20 + 25)
+29 Secondary (14 + 15)
+29 Tertiary (14 + 15)

Exotic Rings Provide
+92 Main (67 + 25)
+63 Secondary (48 + 15)
+63 Tertiary (48 + 15)

539 Stat points in total.

A total of, between 3 items, 65 points of stat difference.

There is an 10-11% difference between fully geared out Ascended and Exotics currently, with a margin of error depending on your back item because Arenanet is REALLY WEIRD WITH BACK ITEMS. What is up with Ghost eater’s hide? Unless they are more averaged…

Oh well.

10-11% total distribution difference in stat points. 65 points. 3% more critical, 65 more condition damage, 65 more power, etc, is what it would amount to if you put a single stat value to it.

Stego.3148:

Epistemic.8013:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Trust me, the best ascended items are ‘roughly’ about 40% better than regular exotics.

This pic is one of the lower quality rings, look at the difference in stats. There are ascended items that have been linked that have had vendor values of 6g

Exotic Berserker Ring total stats combined 155 +6% CTD
That low end Ascended RIng total stats combined 222 + 5% CTD + Agony Resis + MF

You’re comparing apples to oranges. You need to look at items with similar stat distributions. If I remember correctly in WoW each additional point toward a particular stat would have a higher cost against the total stat budget of the item. I’m not sure how the system works in GW2 but I imagine it’s roughly the same.

You imagined wrong. In GW2 all items with 3 stats have 1 Major stat and 2 Minor stats. The # example precision or power is always the same only the Major one has slightly more. For example an exotic chest has 101 Major stats 72 minor stats regardless of what stat it is (crit damage% and MF% are the only exceptions but they are roughly equally balanced point per point also to that formula.) Basically I wouldn’t be telling people they are comparing apples and oranges if I were you. And I think ascended are speculated at close to a 40% increase in stats (including armor as toughness also?) so this whole topic makes it seem like the OP needs to research more.

One of the achievements of GW2 is making the stats and their effects on your damage very transparent and not require intense math whatsoever to calculate benefits. A good portion of everything stat wise in the game can be calculated with simple formula.

Except items that do not only have three stats, such as the mystery ascended item above and the karka shell and other items like that do not follow the normal stat distribution at all for GW2. In fact they give quite a few more stat points than most other items, just not focused anywhere, so it’s more useful if you have a whole build of items that focus on that.

Anyway, math is there. Check with the wiki if you want, correct me if I’m wrong, but Ascended are 10-11% better stat wise as far as my basic addition and division skills tell me.

This argument is pointless. The main problem with Ascended gear is its impact on WvW, and the people who like endless dungeon running for Ascended gear don’t WvW. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen people say Ascended won’t matter because all you do in WvW is zerg vs zerg.

EndlessDreamer.6780:

That’s easy enough actually.

If we’re not looking at the wonder item that is scaring the bejeezus out of everyone…

Ascended Back Items Provide (Not counting Crit damage or MF)
+56 Main Stat
+35 Secondary Stat
+35 Tertiary Stat

Ascended Rings Provide (Again, not counting crit damage or MF cause percentages can bite me)
+103 Main Stat
+68 Secondary Stat
+68 Tertiary Stat

So two rings and a back item can give you 604 Stat points. Which is impressive.
Exotics I am assuming are going to be using the highest given slot item that matches its main stat set like ascended do for simplicity’s sake.

Exotics back items provide (Going off of level 80 guild backpack, cause ghost eater’s hide has lower stats? I dunno. Easier to get backpacks anyway.)
+45 Main (20 + 25)
+29 Secondary (14 + 15)
+29 Tertiary (14 + 15)

Exotic Rings Provide
+92 Main (67 + 25)
+63 Secondary (48 + 15)
+63 Tertiary (48 + 15)

539 Stat points in total.

A total of, between 3 items, 65 points of stat difference.

There is an 10-11% difference between fully geared out Ascended and Exotics currently, with a margin of error depending on your back item because Arenanet is REALLY WEIRD WITH BACK ITEMS. What is up with Ghost eater’s hide? Unless they are more averaged…

Oh well.

10-11% total distribution difference in stat points. 65 points. 3% more critical, 65 more condition damage, 65 more power, etc, is what it would amount to if you put a single stat value to it.

By total stats, I meant with all gear.

So for instance, a character fully decked out in Exotic gear has the following total stats.
(completely made up stats btw.)

1809 power
1639 Precision
1561 Toughness
1089 Vitality

So now, we have the 3 ascended items, we distribute the 65 stats over the above, lets say we end up with the following

1844 power (35)
1654 Precision (15)
1576 Toughness (+15)
and 1089 Vitality.

The increase ends up being minimal, much less than 10% when applied to the total gear stat pool currently. It ends up being barely noticeable. Now, sure, when they add Armour, and weapons of the Ascended tier, the increase will be a bit higher, but we lack too much information to even look at those at the moment.

(If Ascended can’t be upgraded, how will the lack of Sigils and Runes be handled? Will Ascended miss out on all those bonuses aswell? Then making Exotic gear more favourable? We don’t know unfortunately)

Fair. I think it will be a definite trade off between pure stats from Ascended and potential utility from exotic and runes/sigils.

But we don’t know and we probably won’t know for a while. Oh such is the torturous life of having to wait and see what happens.

Anywho, end point being, if stats are what you want to be after, Ascended give you a boost, but it’s not super significant and definitely not so much that you become uncompetitive by not being in it currently.

EndlessDreamer.6780:

Fair. I think it will be a definite trade off between pure stats from Ascended and potential utility from exotic and runes/sigils.

But we don’t know and we probably won’t know for a while. Oh such is the torturous life of having to wait and see what happens.

Anywho, end point being, if stats are what you want to be after, Ascended give you a boost, but it’s not super significant and definitely not so much that you become uncompetitive by not being in it currently.

Definitely, Even with all 3 available slots filled, you get what 2% increase of stats over a exotic based on total allotted stats. That’s not much of an advantage at all. Especially when traits, food buffs and other stat increases give you a much higher boost.

If the noticeable difference in wearing ascended is slim to none compared to wearing exotics, what exactly was the point in introducing them at all? As far as I can see, this argument is working strongly against ascended gear. Split the community and make people leave game by introducing items of no particular importance? Sounds like a brilliant move.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Trust me, the best ascended items are ‘roughly’ about 40% better than regular exotics.

This pic is one of the lower quality rings, look at the difference in stats. There are ascended items that have been linked that have had vendor values of 6g

Exotic Berserker Ring total stats combined 155 +6% CTD
That low end Ascended RIng total stats combined 222 + 5% CTD + Agony Resis + MF

lol the new ring has 50% higher stats than does the exotic. wow. just wow. anyone else care to claim that the increases are “slight?”

Kaleidoscope.8091:

If the noticeable difference in wearing ascended is slim to none compared to wearing exotics, what exactly was the point in introducing them at all? As far as I can see, this argument is working strongly against ascended gear. Split the community and make people leave game by introducing items of no particular importance? Sounds like a brilliant move.

It’s a method to provide some sort of progression that really only benefits the very dungeon that they are mostly found in. It’s an optional progression, giving people the option to play a dungeon for new gear, that provides them with an agony resistance to further progress in difficulties that provide no new content so no one ends up missing out.

GW2 is about options, and playing anyway you wanted to. If you wanted to continue gear progression past 80, which basically stops when you get your exotics, you now can go for gear providing agony resistance that is only a factor in a single area of the game. If you don’t want to run it, then you don’t have to as 2% increase to your total stats in no way will make you less competitive in WvW. Thats all it is, an option.

Because the same difference can be seen between white and blue, blue and green, green and yellow, yellow and orange, and now orange and purple.

The differences between rares and exotics are about as low as exotics versus ascended. However, the more tiers you skip, the more pronounced the difference. Going from blues to oranges is a HUGE upgrade.

So it’s not a new phenomena. The point was to, as stated, to have a bridge in difficulty between exotics and legendaries as well as add in the agony resistance. They never said that improving stats was the huge focus. And it looks like it wasn’t.

And if people left because they felt that ascended gave people too much of an advantage stat wise, etc, then they didn’t spend the time to actually see what it was. Knee jerk I guess.

Columba.9730:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Trust me, the best ascended items are ‘roughly’ about 40% better than regular exotics.

This pic is one of the lower quality rings, look at the difference in stats. There are ascended items that have been linked that have had vendor values of 6g

Exotic Berserker Ring total stats combined 155 +6% CTD
That low end Ascended RIng total stats combined 222 + 5% CTD + Agony Resis + MF

lol the new ring has 50% higher stats than does the exotic. wow. just wow. anyone else care to claim that the increases are “slight?”

You can’t just look at the difference between 1 ring and another, and judge based on that. For an accurate reading on the true stat increase, you must compare to the total stat pool awarded to your character, and base the increase on that number. It ends up being just under a 2% increase if using all 3 available slots.

Still not convincing. If the difference is slim to none, it is slim to none also in the fractals. Would have worked just as well with no stat advantage but only an agony mechanism. Or are you saying the slim and in now way beneficial advantage are somehow necessary for the fractals? No matter how you twist and turn the numbers, it all sounds like apologetics. If there is to be any good argument for introducing stat advantage, the advantage has to be noticeable. The other way around, well it doesn’t really honor the intelligence of the players if they happily chase air, does it?

He’s comparing two different classes of rings…

/facepalm

Atleast compare the berserker ring with it’s ascended equivilent instead of pulling out a jack of all trades ring that has no equal state item I the exotic tier.

Kaleidoscope.8091:

Still not convincing. If the difference is slim to none, it is slim to none also in the fractals. Would have worked just as well with no stat advantage but only an agony mechanism. Or are you saying the slim and in now way beneficial advantage are somehow necessary for the fractals? No matter how you twist and turn the numbers, it all sounds like apologetics. If there is to be any good argument for introducing stat advantage, the advantage has to be noticeable. The other way around, well it doesn’t really honor the intelligence of the players if they happily chase air, does it?

I dunno. By your argument, Exotics are useless as well. They are a very unnoticably small difference between rares, which have only a small advantage over greens, which have a small advantage over blues, etc. I guess I’d rather have small increments personally than huge leaps like in other games where if you don’t have that tier, you’re just royally screwed stat wise.

But I gues we’ll have to agree to disagree on that part.

And no one said ascended gear was necessary for fractals. I run it in whites from time to time for shiggles. The only thing is the agony mechanic, and you can dodge agony inducers as well as running 10+ FoTM not exactly being super necessary for anything but getting ascended.

I can definitely agree: I don’t get the hype over Ascended armor. It’s something to do if you’re bored, something to aim for, but it’s not necessary except for optional content. But I can see why they put it in. It’s something to do.

tkalamba.2541:

Columba.9730:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Trust me, the best ascended items are ‘roughly’ about 40% better than regular exotics.

This pic is one of the lower quality rings, look at the difference in stats. There are ascended items that have been linked that have had vendor values of 6g

Exotic Berserker Ring total stats combined 155 +6% CTD
That low end Ascended RIng total stats combined 222 + 5% CTD + Agony Resis + MF

lol the new ring has 50% higher stats than does the exotic. wow. just wow. anyone else care to claim that the increases are “slight?”

You can’t just look at the difference between 1 ring and another, and judge based on that. For an accurate reading on the true stat increase, you must compare to the total stat pool awarded to your character, and base the increase on that number. It ends up being just under a 2% increase if using all 3 available slots.

My point stands. the new items have 50% higher stats than do exotics. case closed. Your argument is like saying that a 10% Return on INvestment can only be measured by how my wealth i have, independent of the investment. it’s illogical. the right way to compare this is item vs. item, not throwing in a bunch of base stats nonsense. my statement is factually correct.

Columba.9730:

tkalamba.2541:

Columba.9730:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Trust me, the best ascended items are ‘roughly’ about 40% better than regular exotics.

This pic is one of the lower quality rings, look at the difference in stats. There are ascended items that have been linked that have had vendor values of 6g

Exotic Berserker Ring total stats combined 155 +6% CTD
That low end Ascended RIng total stats combined 222 + 5% CTD + Agony Resis + MF

lol the new ring has 50% higher stats than does the exotic. wow. just wow. anyone else care to claim that the increases are “slight?”

You can’t just look at the difference between 1 ring and another, and judge based on that. For an accurate reading on the true stat increase, you must compare to the total stat pool awarded to your character, and base the increase on that number. It ends up being just under a 2% increase if using all 3 available slots.

My point stands. the new items have 50% higher stats than do exotics. case closed. Your argument is like saying that a 10% Return on INvestment can only be measured by how my wealth i have, independent of the investment. it’s illogical. the right way to compare this is item vs. item, not throwing in a bunch of base stats nonsense. my statement is factually correct.

No. They don’t. You’re comparing a Berserker’s stat set Ring to a Divinity stat set Ring.

I have three posts above all showing the comparison between two Berserker stat set rings.

If you’re not going to even look at the clear evidence and math posted, please stop quoting numbers that are, in fact, wrong.

If you compare an exotic three stat item to the Karka shell, you get the same 50% imbalance due to the fact that Divinity based stat set ups focus on having lower points put in a lot more places. You don’t get nearly as much focus but you get more points overall.

So what you’re doing is overinflating a difference that is to be expected. Of course a divinity based stat item is supposed to have a lot more points. It’s what the stat set does. That is not, however, a fair representation of all exotic vs ascended.

More excuses to defend the gear grind. My point stands, regardless of all the reflexive defenses of gear grinding.

a 20% increase is still a massive one.

They say they will continue to release new pieces.

This means a complete set with 20% more effectiveness WILL be part of this game if they are not convinced otherwise.

20% more effective stat is essentially a whole new 20 trait points invested in whatever line you choose.

that is HUGE. It is not at all insignificant.

plasmacutter.2709:

a 20% increase is still a massive one.

They say they will continue to release new pieces.

This means a complete set with 20% more effectiveness WILL be part of this game if they are not convinced otherwise.

20% more effective stat is essentially a whole new 20 trait points invested in whatever line you choose.

that is HUGE. It is not at all insignificant.

Agreed, don’t listen to the pro-grind propaganda. The new gear, as shown by the posts here are 20-50% higher on the ascended gear. Don’t be fooled by the pro-grind crowd.

You are actually giving disservice to the argument by trying to manipulate the comparison – especially when you don’t have to do that. The 10-20% difference is huge enough already. I know that i did notice difference after upgrading from rares to exotic set. I fully expect the difference to be bigger this time (due to the compound effect of stat increase at the high end – especially where critical chance is concerned). And that’s even before considering the effect that higher rarity infusions will have (or the possibility of ascended strength built-in runes for armor).

It’s actually funny seeing as the people that want to keep ascended gear in game soo much are doing everything they can to persuade everyone else that ascended eq doesn’t matter.

Didn’t read OP too busy stomping 1v2s with my full exotics.

Adding those 11 points on all three pieces will increase in-game normal direct or condition damage on a typical character by about 1.25%

To the OP: Its not the “competitive” part people are focused on as much as the “staying” part (re: your thread title).

i.e. if you log off and come back in 6 months, that would mean probably 2 content patches would have passed, meaning an additional 4-6 pieces of ascended gear (with accompanying infusions) would be “live” in game. Thus you and you full exotics would be unable to “compete” alongside an ascended kitted character in terms of how deep you could get inside fractal dungeons and by that time the aggregate of bonuses over exotic gear would have begun to unbalance PvP. Hence you were not able to “stay competitive” by staying in your exotics.

P.S. please stop with these poorly constructed, half baked arguments.

Columba.9730:

plasmacutter.2709:

a 20% increase is still a massive one.

They say they will continue to release new pieces.

This means a complete set with 20% more effectiveness WILL be part of this game if they are not convinced otherwise.

20% more effective stat is essentially a whole new 20 trait points invested in whatever line you choose.

that is HUGE. It is not at all insignificant.

Agreed, don’t listen to the pro-grind propaganda. The new gear, as shown by the posts here are 20-50% higher on the ascended gear. Don’t be fooled by the pro-grind crowd.

The gear is 20-50% higher, perhaps. The overall affect on the stat pool however.

My Ranger has 1846 power currently. He gains +30 upgrading to the Vine of the Pale Tree should he get it .The total stat increase is 1.625135428% when carried to 10 significant digits.

. . . please, explain more how the stats are 20% more effective, higher, or whatever.

fled.4691:

To the OP: Its not the “competitive” part people are focused on as much as the “staying” part (re: your thread title).

i.e. if you log off and come back in 6 months, that would mean probably 2 content patches would have passed, meaning an additional 4-6 pieces of ascended gear (with accompanying infusions) would be “live” in game. Thus you and you full exotics would be unable to “compete” alongside an ascended kitted character in terms of how deep you could get inside fractal dungeons and by that time the aggregate of bonuses over exotic gear would have begun to unbalance PvP. Hence you were not able to “stay competitive” by staying in your exotics.

P.S. please stop with these poorly constructed, half baked arguments.

Stay competitive — what’s half-baked here?

As I pointed out, this content update, assuming you do the work and get all 3 items upgraded, will garner you about 1.25% damage increase.

We haven’t seen the next content update yet, of course, but if it’s similar in scale…

How will these couple percent in dps unbalance pvp or make you not stay competitive?

The math clearly shows that the stats on these items are 20-50% higher than those on exotics. don’t buy the propaganda that says that these differences are trivial. The gear grinders will throw all sorts of other nonsense in to confuse the issue.

Columba.9730:

The math clearly shows that the stats on these items are 20-50% higher than those on exotics. don’t buy the propaganda that says that these differences are trivial. The gear grinders will throw all sorts of other nonsense in to confuse the issue.

And you are clearly trolling. And if youre actually serious then I think you should probably just uninstall the game, the community is better off without you.

You seem to have largely missed the point. Grinding to stay competitive is only one detrimental effect of the introduction of vertical progression in the game. The issue is vertical progression itself as a concept. GW2 was represented as being a game about horizontal progression not vertical progression. To quote the manifesto: “It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.” Notice any logical problem there with the introduction of Ascended gear and vertical progression. Again, it has nothing to do with degree, rather it is about direction. The direction was clearly defined in the manifesto.