Guild Wars 2

I’m totally baffled by the stealth thief class complaining about how ‘weak’ they are, how vulnerable, powerless they are, how they can’t ‘tank’ like other classes, solo, have ‘range’ and how they can’t ‘remove conditions’ like other classes.

Why is the stealth thief class is ‘playing the victim game’?
In other word, why is the stealth thief class is acting like a ‘helpless victim’’?

‘How much more ’stealth’ blood do you want in your hands’?
’How much more unreasonable deaths do you want?
’How much more lives do you want to take advantage of?
’How much more Freedom do you want?
’How much more Success do you want?
’How much more Power do you want?

What is your goal?

You already have everything; you are the only class who is rewarded with the best designs; skills, utilities, mechanics, mobilities, attributes, defense, offense and the best traits in the game; once again, not forgetting your best reward yet; Stealth.

You’re the ‘apple of the eye’ of the entire class, and the game architectural, and infrastructure.

No Class Will Ever Do What You Do.
————————

Are your Ego’s, Self-Worth and Grandiosity being threaten?

Are you your ‘Worst Enemy’?

What is your ‘pay-of’ for ‘playing the victim game’?

‘You Are- Everything’

You’ve Already Won

You’re The Victor

Why are you other classes playing the same victim game when you complain about thieves? I have acquired the knowledge in dealing with them in relation to my build, why can’t you all instead of asking for nerf? I know you are not asking for a nerf in this thread but it happens too often.

Thief is a very cheap class/profession.

You can pretty much see in every other game that classes/professions with a stealth mechanic is very, very cheap, they are not fun to go against because they are invisible.

This is pretty much World of Roguecraft all over again but with a different game.

At this rate, all of the threads you are dropping are pretty much spam. All about the same thing. I do play a theif by the way, don’t even use stealth.

Burnfall.9573:

I’m totally baffled by the stealth thief class complaining about how ‘weak’ they are, how vulnerable, powerless they are, how they can’t ‘tank’ like other classes, solo, have ‘range’ and how they can’t ‘remove conditions’ like other classes.

Why is the stealth thief class is ‘playing the victim game’?
In other word, why is the stealth thief class is acting like a ‘helpless victim’’?

‘How much more ’stealth’ blood do you want in your hands’?
’How much more unreasonable deaths do you want?
’How much more lives do you want to take advantage of?
’How much more Freedom do you want?
’How much more Success do you want?
’How much more Power do you want?

What is your goal?

You already have everything; you are the only class who is rewarded with the best designs; skills, utilities, mechanics, mobilities, attributes, defense, offense and the best traits in the game; once again, not forgetting your best reward yet; Stealth.

You’re the ‘apple of the eye’ of the entire class, and the game architectural, and infrastructure.

No Class Will Ever Do What You Do
————————

Are your Ego’s, Self-Worth and Grandiosity being threaten?

Are you your ‘Worst Enemy’?

What is your ‘pay-of’ for ‘playing the victim game’?

‘You Are- Everything’

You’ve Already Won

You’re The Victor

If they want to admit it or not , stealth is completely broken and abused and thieves are the culprit…Mesmers ability to abuse invulnerability (distortion) on a very low CD is a very close runner up..but you get to at least see (most times anyways) the real mesmer instead of being pray by any thief with half a brain ….

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Why are you other classes playing the same victim game when you complain about thieves? I have acquired the knowledge in dealing with them in relation to my build, why can’t you all instead of asking for nerf? I know you are not asking for a nerf in this thread but it happens too often.

stealth thief can do 14K damage with a backstab.
My ele has 11K health
If they would run in completely invisible they can finish me with one hit without me even knowing that they’re there. Or should people AoE around themselves constantly at all times?
Really the biggest problem is not that the damage is too big, but that stealth is cheap.

Mirta.5029:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Why are you other classes playing the same victim game when you complain about thieves? I have acquired the knowledge in dealing with them in relation to my build, why can’t you all instead of asking for nerf? I know you are not asking for a nerf in this thread but it happens too often.

stealth thief can do 14K damage with a backstab.
My ele has 11K health
If they would run in completely invisible they can finish me with one hit without me even knowing that they’re there. Or should people AoE around themselves constantly at all times?
Really the biggest problem is not that the damage is too big, but that stealth is cheap.

Problem is your ele has 11k.Any thief can try to backstab my ele, eventually i will kill him (at least most of the thiefs i have seen).

Farzo hit it right on the head.

They stole the thief class, that’s fine, but they don’t know how to balance it either, and that’s bad.

They said stealth would be a rare thing.. an escape mechanic only… and they have allowed it to become permanent, and they are afraid to nerf it?

…and what happened to fights lasting longer? ….and requiring skill?

And as long as we are remembering the old complaints about wow, and how everything old is new again, what’s up with all the dresses?

=^O.o^=

.

Mirta.5029:

stealth thief can do 14K damage with a backstab.
My ele has 11K health
If they would run in completely invisible they can finish me with one hit without me even knowing that they’re there.

Glass Canon gets one-shot.

Where is the news?

Kichwas.7152:

Mirta.5029:

stealth thief can do 14K damage with a backstab.
My ele has 11K health
If they would run in completely invisible they can finish me with one hit without me even knowing that they’re there.

Glass Canon gets one-shot.

Where is the news?

the news is that you can get shot without even seeing your opponent once.
I’m not complaining about their damage, I am complaining about the invisibility mechanic, because you don’t get a chance to defend.
Hell give thieves OP damage and speed (buff both a lot), but get rid of the stealth and I wouldn’t say a thing, because then at least I could see my opponent coming.

The biggest problem I have with vsing thieves is that some of my skills can’t be manually targetted. So if the thief is invisible BUT i know where he is, I can’t do anything about it. For instance, I can’t shatter my illusions in a specific AoE targetted location even tho I know the thief is right there. I think this would be a good addition to the game and this is just 1 example of what needs to be available in game.

Lafiel.9372:

The biggest problem I have with vsing thieves is that some of my skills can’t be manually targetted. So if the thief is invisible BUT i know where he is, I can’t do anything about it. For instance, I can’t shatter my illusions in a specific AoE targetted location even tho I know the thief is right there. I think this would be a good addition to the game and this is just 1 example of what needs to be available in game.

This is good point, targeting needs overall improvement (or camera in some situation)

‘How much more ’stealth’ blood do you want in your hands’? – a lot
’How much more unreasonable deaths do you want? – I don’t think I’ve died an “unreasonable death”, explain?
’How much more lives do you want to take advantage of? – I mean…being a Thief we do steal from others so…the more the merrier I guess?
’How much more Freedom do you want? – Well I live in ’Merica, so I have plenty of that freedom.
’How much more Success do you want? – I view my self as pretty successful…
’How much more Power do you want? – Power is never a bad thing…

OK, troll part of that is done.
Good Thieves, don’t have to complain about us being underpowered. Without Thief (which a lot of people want to take away from us) we would be horrible due to low Armor/HP and we would ALL be forced to run Evasion/Dodge builds to even survive, that isn’t even talking about armor.

Are we weak? No.
Without stealth? Sure!
Am I going around saying Thieves need a buff? No.
Am I going around telling people how bat-kitten insane they are for saying Thieves need to get rid of stealth? Yuuuuup.

Thieve is a well-balanced class looking out, looking in, a lot of newbies can’t figure us out and then claim that Stealth is broken (or even us that, other games fail because they do it too approach…ewh) That would be like me saying Mesmer is broken because I can’t tell Illusions apart, or Ranger is broken because they get a perm pet. Thief is Thief, we like our stealth, there are ways to remove it, leave us out of your QQ threads unless it was a close match.

I guess in conclusion I don’t know if this is a Thief Hate Thread, or if this post was made in response of Bad/Weak Thieves complaining and you complaining about them…

Burnfall.9573:

Why is the stealth thief class is ‘playing the victim game’?
In other word, why is the stealth thief class is acting like a ‘helpless victim’’?

‘How much more ’stealth’ blood do you want in your hands’?
’How much more unreasonable deaths do you want?
’How much more lives do you want to take advantage of?
’How much more Freedom do you want?
’How much more Success do you want?
’How much more Power do you want?

What is your goal?

You already have everything; you are the only class who is rewarded with the best designs; skills, utilities, mechanics, mobilities, attributes, defense, offense and the best traits in the game; once again, not forgetting your best reward yet; Stealth.

You’re the ‘apple of the eye’ of the entire class, and the game architectural, and infrastructure.

No Class Will Ever Do What You Do.
————————

Are your Ego’s, Self-Worth and Grandiosity being threaten?

Are you your ‘Worst Enemy’?

What is your ‘pay-of’ for ‘playing the victim game’?

‘You Are- Everything’

You’ve Already Won

You’re The Victor

OP, I am person that believes that stealth as a mechanic, does far and away more harm than good in any PvP environment (especially WvW); and was sorely disappointed when I learned that it was to be included in GW2.

That said, do you have any idea how your original post sounds to any educated mature adult? Please, re-read your own post out loud to yourself, and ask: do I sound like a rational adult, or do I sound like a hysterical child throwing a tantrum? Or better yet, share that piece of writing you just did with your parents or an older friend and ask them their opinion.

Mirta.5029:

stealth thief can do 14K damage with a backstab.
My ele has 11K health
If they would run in completely invisible they can finish me with one hit without me even knowing that they’re there. Or should people AoE around themselves constantly at all times?
Really the biggest problem is not that the damage is too big, but that stealth is cheap.

…don’t be out in the front lines with 11k Health, that should be a given. If you pit Glass Cannon against Glass Cannon, you are correct, a thief will win, ANET has stated that this is what the Thief is ment to do.

Stealth, has effects that give it away. It wasn’t like before culling in which a Thief could Stealth off of your screen, and then have an additional 5seconds (w/e it took for the game to see the Thief) before you could do anything. Thieves don’t have enough stealth time to cover their whole range to run up on a target that was completely unaware due to Sight and then backstab them. Show me proof that a Thief has done this to you, and I’ll say to you that I’ve been playing my Thief the wrong way and I will hunt down that person to train me.

What I mean by that, is that Smoke Fields aren’t going off, a Shadow Refuge (READ: Giant House Icon with a Field under it) isn’t visable, that you didn’t first see him, and he then 1shoted you.

BTW – I always go after Eles, the most popular builds seem to have 0 toughness Squishy food is the best!

Rogues in warcraft were a hell of a lot easier to handle then scum, I mean thieves in gw2.
Sure stun lock could get you, but a well timed trinket & pew pew, fight is balanced.
I used to fight three of the best rogues on our server (as a fire mage, foolkin or shadowpest) & did more then well enough.

Biggest screw up with thieves in gw2 is the constant stealth, silly ranges of escaping & insane damage, but also one of gw2s main huge problems is the amount of time this game takes to get you out of combat.

If a thief stands within (whatever range) it is that this game sticks you at. (like when hit a player/wall etc then step back, you`re in combat for hours unless go out of range)

In warcraft if you weren`t hit for (a fairly) short amount of time, you were out of combat. This is how it should be in all games, but gw2….. /facepalm

But this has been like this since beta & having seen the way they snail around to things will probably never change.

Ah well, Wild Star is out soon

Tengu.4209:

BTW – I always go after Eles, the most popular builds seem to have 0 toughness Squishy food is the best!

Untill you get to that s/d that can counter you.
I used to go after rangers first (spvp) but look at them now. Guess i have to go back to killing warriors.

I’d like to see far less stealth with thieves, but more the ability survive and be better in group play. The way they are now, they are pretty much relegated to hiding in stealth and nearly 1 shotting people or whole groups. If they aren’t stealthed they are pretty much dead, so yes they do have a point there.

Tengu.4209:

…don’t be out in the front lines with 11k Health, that should be a given. If you pit Glass Cannon against Glass Cannon, you are correct, a thief will win, ANET has stated that this is what the Thief is ment to do.

full vitality/ toughness means that ele can be between 2 and 3 shot. How to do that?
1. Backstab then heartseeker spam
2. Backstab, immediately do an ability that gives you swiftness, comeback and repeat. Invisibility has a 3 sec CD shouldn’t be hard.

So yes, invisibility is simply a cheap mechanic.

DeadlySynz.3471:

I’d like to see far less stealth with thieves, but more the ability survive and be better in group play. The way they are now, they are pretty much relegated to hiding in stealth and nearly 1 shotting people or whole groups. If they aren’t stealthed they are pretty much dead, so yes they do have a point there.

OK…you guys say you want them to have more survivability, but what does that mean? I can understand 2 things…more ways to dodge attacks, or ability to survive getting hit…Thief is Medium Armor, giving us more Armor isn’t logical because we are already locked in the Medium Armor category…so I guess you mean the second one…

I see just as many QQ threads of Thieves being able to disengage and go heal, as I see Thieves being able to stealth and sneak so…pick one that you all want to complain about, quit saying we need more of one and less of the other.

Mirta.5029:

Tengu.4209:

…don’t be out in the front lines with 11k Health, that should be a given. If you pit Glass Cannon against Glass Cannon, you are correct, a thief will win, ANET has stated that this is what the Thief is ment to do.

full vitality/ toughness means that ele can be between 2 and 3 shot. How to do that?
1. Backstab then heartseeker spam
2. Backstab, immediately do an ability that gives you swiftness, comeback and repeat. Invisibility has a 3 sec CD shouldn’t be hard.

So yes, invisibility is simply a cheap mechanic.

Full soldier gear means ele is almost unkillable in zerg fights, full zerker with tanky traits, s/d means ele is almost unkillable against average wvw roamer.

Mirta.5029:

Tengu.4209:

…don’t be out in the front lines with 11k Health, that should be a given. If you pit Glass Cannon against Glass Cannon, you are correct, a thief will win, ANET has stated that this is what the Thief is ment to do.

full vitality/ toughness means that ele can be between 2 and 3 shot. How to do that?
1. Backstab then heartseeker spam
2. Backstab, immediately do an ability that gives you swiftness, comeback and repeat. Invisibility has a 3 sec CD shouldn’t be hard.

So yes, invisibility is simply a cheap mechanic.

So yes, in a 1v1, a Glass Cannon Thief ment for damage is going to win. I said this above.

Ignoring what I just said though…
So you are completely unable to get away from a Thief that stealthed and you know they are attempting to move behind you? Doesn’t Ele have the second best mobility in the game? Fire Trail, RtL, Mist Form are the major ones that I can think of atm (been awhile since I played my Ele, sorry)

You are right that trying to go up and swing a Dagger at a Thief is going to get you killed, you have to play smarter then that to kill even a newbie Thief.

Stealth isn’t the problem, the targeting system needs refinement. For some reason “target nearest enemy” ignores the thief backstabbing you and goes after the random moa ten feet away.

Mirta.5029:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Why are you other classes playing the same victim game when you complain about thieves? I have acquired the knowledge in dealing with them in relation to my build, why can’t you all instead of asking for nerf? I know you are not asking for a nerf in this thread but it happens too often.

stealth thief can do 14K damage with a backstab.
My ele has 11K health
If they would run in completely invisible they can finish me with one hit without me even knowing that they’re there. Or should people AoE around themselves constantly at all times?
Really the biggest problem is not that the damage is too big, but that stealth is cheap.

I have no sympathy for a glass cannon.

Tengu.4209:

Mirta.5029:

Tengu.4209:

…don’t be out in the front lines with 11k Health, that should be a given. If you pit Glass Cannon against Glass Cannon, you are correct, a thief will win, ANET has stated that this is what the Thief is ment to do.

full vitality/ toughness means that ele can be between 2 and 3 shot. How to do that?
1. Backstab then heartseeker spam
2. Backstab, immediately do an ability that gives you swiftness, comeback and repeat. Invisibility has a 3 sec CD shouldn’t be hard.

So yes, invisibility is simply a cheap mechanic.

So yes, in a 1v1, a Glass Cannon Thief ment for damage is going to win. I said this above.

Ignoring what I just said though…
So you are completely unable to get away from a Thief that stealthed and you know they are attempting to move behind you? Doesn’t Ele have the second best mobility in the game? Fire Trail, RtL, Mist Form are the major ones that I can think of atm (been awhile since I played my Ele, sorry)

You are right that trying to go up and swing a Dagger at a Thief is going to get you killed, you have to play smarter then that to kill even a newbie Thief.

fire doesn’t get you that far, you can use your bow ability or your shadowstep to get there. Mist form doesn’t really allow you to move faster and lasts 3 seconds, ride the lightning used to have the best mobility, but it got nerfed because “eles need less mobility and thieves need more”.
All I’m saying is that invisibility is cheap. No matter how you look at it it is. It’s simply cheap. The only game that I remember where invisibility wasn’t cheap was Alien versus predator – when a predator goes invisible the background that he is covering shimmers and waves slightly, plus aliens could see trough invisibility and humans could use their tracking gun to determine your position.

Clownmug.8357:

Stealth isn’t the problem, the targeting system needs refinement. For some reason “target nearest enemy” ignores the thief backstabbing you and goes after the random moa ten feet away.

I can agree that this is definitely a problem. I’ve experienced this also.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Mirta.5029:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Why are you other classes playing the same victim game when you complain about thieves? I have acquired the knowledge in dealing with them in relation to my build, why can’t you all instead of asking for nerf? I know you are not asking for a nerf in this thread but it happens too often.

stealth thief can do 14K damage with a backstab.
My ele has 11K health
If they would run in completely invisible they can finish me with one hit without me even knowing that they’re there. Or should people AoE around themselves constantly at all times?
Really the biggest problem is not that the damage is too big, but that stealth is cheap.

I have no sympathy for a glass cannon.

A new title should be “Glkittenterer”…get so many kills from people with a certain set on

Tengu.4209:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Mirta.5029:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Why are you other classes playing the same victim game when you complain about thieves? I have acquired the knowledge in dealing with them in relation to my build, why can’t you all instead of asking for nerf? I know you are not asking for a nerf in this thread but it happens too often.

stealth thief can do 14K damage with a backstab.
My ele has 11K health
If they would run in completely invisible they can finish me with one hit without me even knowing that they’re there. Or should people AoE around themselves constantly at all times?
Really the biggest problem is not that the damage is too big, but that stealth is cheap.

I have no sympathy for a glass cannon.

A new title should be “Glkittenterer”…get so many kills from people with a certain set on

Well for MF sets it would be pretty easy, then come zerkers, other gear would take some time.

Mirta.5029:

Tengu.4209:

Mirta.5029:

Tengu.4209:

…don’t be out in the front lines with 11k Health, that should be a given. If you pit Glass Cannon against Glass Cannon, you are correct, a thief will win, ANET has stated that this is what the Thief is ment to do.

full vitality/ toughness means that ele can be between 2 and 3 shot. How to do that?
1. Backstab then heartseeker spam
2. Backstab, immediately do an ability that gives you swiftness, comeback and repeat. Invisibility has a 3 sec CD shouldn’t be hard.

So yes, invisibility is simply a cheap mechanic.

So yes, in a 1v1, a Glass Cannon Thief ment for damage is going to win. I said this above.

Ignoring what I just said though…
So you are completely unable to get away from a Thief that stealthed and you know they are attempting to move behind you? Doesn’t Ele have the second best mobility in the game? Fire Trail, RtL, Mist Form are the major ones that I can think of atm (been awhile since I played my Ele, sorry)

You are right that trying to go up and swing a Dagger at a Thief is going to get you killed, you have to play smarter then that to kill even a newbie Thief.

fire doesn’t get you that far, you can use your bow ability or your shadowstep to get there. Mist form doesn’t really allow you to move faster and lasts 3 seconds, ride the lightning used to have the best mobility, but it got nerfed because “eles need less mobility and thieves need more”.
All I’m saying is that invisibility is cheap. No matter how you look at it it is. It’s simply cheap. The only game that I remember where invisibility wasn’t cheap was Alien versus predator – when a predator goes invisible the background that he is covering shimmers and waves slightly, plus aliens could see trough invisibility and humans could use their tracking gun to determine your position.

And that’s a case where invisibility becomes pointless because everyone has a counter in their backpocket…
“Oh a Thief Stealthed? Just look for his outline” “Oh, I have bad eye sight, I’ll just use this TRACKING GUN!”

This isn’t Perma Stealth like WoW, don’t act like you can’t touch us, ANET even gave you hard counters to us in WvW, you have as equal a chance of hitting us as we do hitting you. You just have to be aware of what to look for. If you fear Thieves because of the insane acts that you say we do, then just always carry around a trap and you should be fine.

Sovta.4719:

Tengu.4209:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Mirta.5029:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Why are you other classes playing the same victim game when you complain about thieves? I have acquired the knowledge in dealing with them in relation to my build, why can’t you all instead of asking for nerf? I know you are not asking for a nerf in this thread but it happens too often.

stealth thief can do 14K damage with a backstab.
My ele has 11K health
If they would run in completely invisible they can finish me with one hit without me even knowing that they’re there. Or should people AoE around themselves constantly at all times?
Really the biggest problem is not that the damage is too big, but that stealth is cheap.

I have no sympathy for a glass cannon.

A new title should be “Glkittenterer”…get so many kills from people with a certain set on

Well for MF sets it would be pretty easy, then come zerkers, other gear would take some time.

My post was censored! G-l-a-s-s_S-h-a-t-t-e-r-e-r. There.

Tengu.4209:

Sovta.4719:

Tengu.4209:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Mirta.5029:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Why are you other classes playing the same victim game when you complain about thieves? I have acquired the knowledge in dealing with them in relation to my build, why can’t you all instead of asking for nerf? I know you are not asking for a nerf in this thread but it happens too often.

stealth thief can do 14K damage with a backstab.
My ele has 11K health
If they would run in completely invisible they can finish me with one hit without me even knowing that they’re there. Or should people AoE around themselves constantly at all times?
Really the biggest problem is not that the damage is too big, but that stealth is cheap.

I have no sympathy for a glass cannon.

A new title should be “Glkittenterer”…get so many kills from people with a certain set on

Well for MF sets it would be pretty easy, then come zerkers, other gear would take some time.

My post was censored! G-l-a-s-s_S-h-a-t-t-e-r-e-r. There.

Hmmmmm, Ultimate Magic Destroyer?

Tengu.4209:

And that’s a case where invisibility becomes pointless because everyone has a counter in their backpocket…
“Oh a Thief Stealthed? Just look for his outline” “Oh, I have bad eye sight, I’ll just use this TRACKING GUN!”

This isn’t Perma Stealth like WoW, don’t act like you can’t touch us, ANET even gave you hard counters to us in WvW, you have as equal a chance of hitting us as we do hitting you. You just have to be aware of what to look for. If you fear Thieves because of the insane acts that you say we do, then just always carry around a trap and you should be fine.

Steal worked perfectly fine in that game (I loved playing as a predator).
Now for the “you need to be aware what to look for” like what? You’re COMPLETELY invisible UNLESS you have a legendary, then you leave footsteps.
“carry around a trap” so like I said – spam AoEs everywhere and pretend that they have no CD?
“ArenaNet gave you hard counters” like what? AoEs that hit 5 people at most and have CD?

My point is that stealth has no place in this game. It is simply cheap. And if they buffed thieves up in a different department and removed stealth you wouldn’t be underpowered. You would just need to use your brain to play your class like the rest of us does.
And I do have a thief and I do think that stealth is cheap, that’s why I kitten myself and use it as little as possible.

Mirta.5029:

Tengu.4209:

…don’t be out in the front lines with 11k Health, that should be a given. If you pit Glass Cannon against Glass Cannon, you are correct, a thief will win, ANET has stated that this is what the Thief is ment to do.

full vitality/ toughness means that ele can be between 2 and 3 shot. How to do that?
1. Backstab then heartseeker spam
2. Backstab, immediately do an ability that gives you swiftness, comeback and repeat. Invisibility has a 3 sec CD shouldn’t be hard.

So yes, invisibility is simply a cheap mechanic.

Here’s the problem Mirta. Anet has made it so thieves are squishy no matter how tanky you try to make them, unless you want them to do less damage then a support staff ele. I main a thief and secondary an Ele, and I can say for a fact that my ele is much more powerful. Our backstab will do 5k max without actually hitting you in the back, and that is where most of the backstab builds damage comes from, after that they’re completely vulnerable and weak. I wouldn’t have a problem removing stealth, but make it so we can have a semi survivable build with viable damage and i’ll be fine with it, otherwise you’re asking for thieves to be the weakest class by far (like they will never be played again in PvP).

What makes a good PvPer (or good anything) is being able to think outside the box. The goods will examine the situation at every possible angle, adjust accordingly and then try again.

If you are getting killed, it is more than likely your fault and not what you consider OP.

New Character Yo.6487:

Our backstab will do 5k max without actually hitting you in the back, and that is where most of the backstab builds damage comes from, after that they’re completely vulnerable and weak. I wouldn’t have a problem removing stealth, but make it so we can have a semi survivable build with viable damage and i’ll be fine with it, otherwise you’re asking for thieves to be the weakest class by far (like they will never be played again in PvP).

1. Max it can do is 14K not 5K
2. You have constant evade abilities and invisibility.
3. Power/vitality/toughness thief is still more powerful than a support ele
4. I already said that I wish that thieves would be buffed in as much departments as needed and then stealth would be removed.

Mirta.5029:

New Character Yo.6487:

Our backstab will do 5k max without actually hitting you in the back, and that is where most of the backstab builds damage comes from, after that they’re completely vulnerable and weak. I wouldn’t have a problem removing stealth, but make it so we can have a semi survivable build with viable damage and i’ll be fine with it, otherwise you’re asking for thieves to be the weakest class by far (like they will never be played again in PvP).

1. Max it can do is 14K not 5K
2. You have constant evade abilities and invisibility.
3. Power/vitality/toughness thief is still more powerful than a support ele
4. I already said that I wish that thieves would be buffed in as much departments as needed and then stealth would be removed.

I said it does max 5k when you’re not behind him hence “backstab”. If we don’t have stealth, we can’t get behind you. Constant evade is false. Backstab builds don’t have that. Not really, those thieves are virtually useless in many situations because they have no crit which is the main reason the damage for thieves is so high. And number 4 is when we come to an agreement.

Zacchary.6183:

What makes a good PvPer (or good anything) is being able to think outside the box. The goods will examine the situation at every possible angle, adjust accordingly and then try again.

If you are getting killed, it is more than likely your fault and not what you consider OP.

This.

One counter I like against stealth thieves is throwing down some Aoe’s 2 seconds after they’ve stealthed because that’s when they’ll be closest and by the time they hit me, i’ve already melted them to half hp. After that it can be pretty easy because many of them panic and spam HS lol.

Mirta.5029:

Tengu.4209:

And that’s a case where invisibility becomes pointless because everyone has a counter in their backpocket…
“Oh a Thief Stealthed? Just look for his outline” “Oh, I have bad eye sight, I’ll just use this TRACKING GUN!”

This isn’t Perma Stealth like WoW, don’t act like you can’t touch us, ANET even gave you hard counters to us in WvW, you have as equal a chance of hitting us as we do hitting you. You just have to be aware of what to look for. If you fear Thieves because of the insane acts that you say we do, then just always carry around a trap and you should be fine.

Steal worked perfectly fine in that game (I loved playing as a predator).
Now for the “you need to be aware what to look for” like what? You’re COMPLETELY invisible UNLESS you have a legendary, then you leave footsteps.
“carry around a trap” so like I said – spam AoEs everywhere and pretend that they have no CD?
“ArenaNet gave you hard counters” like what? AoEs that hit 5 people at most and have CD?

My point is that stealth has no place in this game. It is simply cheap. And if they buffed thieves up in a different department and removed stealth you wouldn’t be underpowered. You would just need to use your brain to play your class like the rest of us does.
And I do have a thief and I do think that stealth is cheap, that’s why I kitten myself and use it as little as possible.

1. AvP – I skipped that game, sorry if I sounded all knowing but it sounds like each “race” had a counter to it, along with the obvious “the background is moving so they are there” theme

2. Signs of a stealthed Thief – Smoke Fields and the giant AoE House Field (Shadow Refuge) are huuuuge give aways that a Thief is not only there, but also stealthed. We don’t get enough stealth time to become stealthed, and sneak up on someone who we couldn’t see and then backstab them, we simply don’t get enough stealth time to do that. We would have to restealth at some point, and when we would, we have the 3s debuff, or you’d see a Smoke field come up.

3. Trap – No, I didn’t mean AoE, I ment what I said, a Trap, the new WvW Stealth removing 30s Trap that is MADE for people who say Stealth is OP. It hardly takes any time to set up. And you shouldn’t be just throwing AoEs anywhere. Look at Number 2 and based on what you see, you should have an idea of where the Thief is. Place AoEs there. Placing AoEs out in random areas in the hopes of 1 of them hitting us doesn’t do anything.

4. Hard Counters = Trap above, Immobilizing AoEs (See number 2 and number 3 for placement) and Fear causing effects which remove us from our stealth granting fields.

5. Stealth being cheap – How is it cheap? Because you don’t know where we are? most of us act within reason and using the clues (number 2/3) you should know what we are doing.

Is it cheap because you can’t see us? Well you can see where we have been and guess where we are going.

You can still hit us, which is something that WoW wouldn’t allow.

We aren’t gods when we stealth, we still take AoEs one at a time, just like you.

6. Buff in other department – What buff do you want Thieves to get? I see equally as many “Stealth is cheap” as “Thieves run away too much”. A popular build which uses Dodge/Evade/Vig has a dodge roll which is almost 100% foul proof. I’ve seen a good thief hold off a group of 4 players in a PvP match at a point. People complain of that build like you wouldn’t believe, and it uses 0 stealth. So you want all of us to have to be forced to build like that? No damage, all evade? Our Shadow Step is good, but its still on a cooldown. Thieves are squishy in armor and vit and can’t be buffed due to Armor categories.

Mirta.5029:

You would just need to use your brain to play your class like the rest of us does.
And I do have a thief and I do think that stealth is cheap, that’s why I kitten myself and use it as little as possible.

There are plenty of Thieves that have no brain and suck at the class, I actually consider Thief to be the class that you need a brain to even kill people, HS spam has been figured out how to be beat, Smoke is the only thing current “cheap” and I’m pretty sure that will be beat soon aswell.

Thief isn’t god mode, I promise. Stealth isn’t that great, maybe if you used it more you’d know the weakness to it…

Also you are still comparing glass cannon to glass cannon, staph. Thief shall win.

Mirta.5029:

Kichwas.7152:

Mirta.5029:

stealth thief can do 14K damage with a backstab.
My ele has 11K health
If they would run in completely invisible they can finish me with one hit without me even knowing that they’re there.

Glass Canon gets one-shot.

Where is the news?

the news is that you can get shot without even seeing your opponent once.
I’m not complaining about their damage, I am complaining about the invisibility mechanic, because you don’t get a chance to defend.

This can’t happen to any of my toons. Even my elementalist.

No glass canons. No matter how tough the hit, it takes 3 hits to get me at a minimum. So that thief hits, I heal, and then since he was also a glass canon to hit you that hard, I have good odds of staying up and doing enough to take him down.

I’ve fought thieves before – no worse than any others. Just a different gimmick.

Tengu.4209:

DeadlySynz.3471:

I’d like to see far less stealth with thieves, but more the ability survive and be better in group play. The way they are now, they are pretty much relegated to hiding in stealth and nearly 1 shotting people or whole groups. If they aren’t stealthed they are pretty much dead, so yes they do have a point there.

OK…you guys say you want them to have more survivability, but what does that mean? I can understand 2 things…more ways to dodge attacks, or ability to survive getting hit…Thief is Medium Armor, giving us more Armor isn’t logical because we are already locked in the Medium Armor category…so I guess you mean the second one…

I see just as many QQ threads of Thieves being able to disengage and go heal, as I see Thieves being able to stealth and sneak so…pick one that you all want to complain about, quit saying we need more of one and less of the other.

More abilities to dodge/block attacks, bigger HP pool, better AoE capabilities. Then on the contrary less stealth.. IE: Add a cool down to stealth of a minimum of 10-15 seconds so they can’t vanish in and out of battle at will resetting the fight as much as they need to before they get it right. Nor should they be able to vanish and stomp people while they are downed either. The amount of QQ’ing I see regarding that alone should warrant Anet to raise some eyebrows on the issue.

Tengu.4209:

1. AvP – I skipped that game, sorry if I sounded all knowing but it sounds like each “race” had a counter to it, along with the obvious “the background is moving so they are there” theme

2. Signs of a stealthed Thief – Smoke Fields and the giant AoE House Field (Shadow Refuge) are huuuuge give aways that a Thief is not only there, but also stealthed. We don’t get enough stealth time to become stealthed, and sneak up on someone who we couldn’t see and then backstab them, we simply don’t get enough stealth time to do that. We would have to restealth at some point, and when we would, we have the 3s debuff, or you’d see a Smoke field come up.

3. Trap – No, I didn’t mean AoE, I ment what I said, a Trap, the new WvW Stealth removing 30s Trap that is MADE for people who say Stealth is OP. It hardly takes any time to set up. And you shouldn’t be just throwing AoEs anywhere. Look at Number 2 and based on what you see, you should have an idea of where the Thief is. Place AoEs there. Placing AoEs out in random areas in the hopes of 1 of them hitting us doesn’t do anything.

4. Hard Counters = Trap above, Immobilizing AoEs (See number 2 and number 3 for placement) and Fear causing effects which remove us from our stealth granting fields.

5. Stealth being cheap – How is it cheap? Because you don’t know where we are? most of us act within reason and using the clues (number 2/3) you should know what we are doing.

Is it cheap because you can’t see us? Well you can see where we have been and guess where we are going.

You can still hit us, which is something that WoW wouldn’t allow.

We aren’t gods when we stealth, we still take AoEs one at a time, just like you.

6. Buff in other department – What buff do you want Thieves to get? I see equally as many “Stealth is cheap” as “Thieves run away too much”. A popular build which uses Dodge/Evade/Vig has a dodge roll which is almost 100% foul proof. I’ve seen a good thief hold off a group of 4 players in a PvP match at a point. People complain of that build like you wouldn’t believe, and it uses 0 stealth. So you want all of us to have to be forced to build like that? No damage, all evade? Our Shadow Step is good, but its still on a cooldown. Thieves are squishy in armor and vit and can’t be buffed due to Armor categories.

1. It had counters but you needed to be skilled to use them. Surprisingly enough seeing the background move can be really kitten hard. The same as aliens hiding in the dark – they’re not invisible, but good luck noticing them.
2. Use your healing ability – stealth with no signs of it
3. Can you use it in Spvp too?
4. You have to know that a thief is around to counter it with an aoe
5. We can’t target you, half of the abilities will auto-target a critter in the distance and will miss any thief. It’s cheap because it doesn’t allow you to counter your opponent because you can’t see it. PvP is always better without invisibility.
6. Damage and survivability. You can always replace invisibility with something like a frenzy buff and buff their survivability up. There. Solved.

Mirta.5029

1. It had counters but you needed to be skilled to use them. Surprisingly enough seeing the background move can be really kitten hard. The same as aliens hiding in the dark – they’re not invisible, but good luck noticing them.
2. Use your healing ability – stealth with no signs of it
3. Can you use it in Spvp too?
4. You have to know that a thief is around to counter it with an aoe
5. We can’t target you, half of the abilities will auto-target a critter in the distance and will miss any thief. It’s cheap because it doesn’t allow you to counter your opponent because you can’t see it. PvP is always better without invisibility.

2. Our healing ability gives us…what? 5s of Stealth? People also don’t use that as an opener, why waste the healing when you will need it later? Kinda invalid to name that here, you are right it doesn’t have a “Thief was here!” sign, but any thief that uses that just to extend stealth wastes the healing and you have an advantage.

3. Nope, but a Stealthing Thief you don’t have to worry about in PvP, you have to worry about the dodging ones. In PvP the makitten maller and you have more people per area then in WvW where a lot of people complain about getting killed by a roaming Thief. Thief is actually a underpopulated class in PvP right now because Stealth hasn’t been that useful in it.

4. If an object is in your way, then yes, you are correct, you won’t see the Thief coming unless you saw him before and knew. But the same goes for the Thief, we don’t stealth to move around each and every corner just to surprise some guy. By that respect we all also don’t always carry D/D on us just to abuse Backstab’s high damage.

5. With projectiles, you are correct, most likely it will target something else and go off some wonky way. However I had in mind Sword Slashes/AoEs that you have more control over, sorry if you were focusing on projectiles, I ment the Sword/AoE stuff.

6. A lot of people already complain about how we survive too well with the dodge build, giving us more survivability isn’t the answer because of how wide it can be taken. We arnt the devs though, but if you want your point made you’d have to be pinpoint with that. As for damage…I do believe you said the damage was already too high on us dealing a 14k backstab so I dunno about that one.

I wonder what they will end up doing about stealth. I’m fairly certain that they won’t touch stealth in itself, but more than likely they are going to add a couple of hard counters to at least a couple of classes.

My guess is they may buff some ranger pets to auto-detect stealth, as it seems only fitting some pets should be able to do so given their heightened senses..

Now the question is, how would thieves feel about that if Anet took that route? If a ranger had a pet out that revealed stealthed units (which you know most rangers would be using in WvW at that point). What would you guys do exactly?

DeadlySynz.3471:

I wonder what they will end up doing about stealth. I’m fairly certain that they won’t touch stealth in itself, but more than likely they are going to add a couple of hard counters to at least a couple of classes.

My guess is they may buff some ranger pets to auto-detect stealth, as it seems only fitting some pets should be able to do so given their heightened senses..

Now the question is, how would thieves feel about that if Anet took that route? If a ranger had a pet out that revealed stealthed units (which you know most rangers would be using in WvW at that point). What would you guys do exactly?

If there was a dog (AKA a build), easy or hard to get as a pet, that could pull us out of stealth or atleast show were we walked. I would be happy with that and be alright.

However if they gave each and every single build an anti-stealth opinion that took no sacrifice in the build to use, then what would be the point of Stealthing?

Rangers getting a pet to locate Stealth = Good
Every Class getting an easy to use Hard Counter to stealth = No point in stealthing.

DeadlySynz.3471:

I wonder what they will end up doing about stealth. I’m fairly certain that they won’t touch stealth in itself, but more than likely they are going to add a couple of hard counters to at least a couple of classes.

My guess is they may buff some ranger pets to auto-detect stealth, as it seems only fitting some pets should be able to do so given their heightened senses..

Now the question is, how would thieves feel about that if Anet took that route? If a ranger had a pet out that revealed stealthed units (which you know most rangers would be using in WvW at that point). What would you guys do exactly?

When that happens, thieves would just cry on forums that they’re useless now, can’t do anything, etc etc. Well if guardians can survive through boon hate, then thieves can also survive stealth hate.

lol you’re completely exaggerating here. Have you played a Thief? I will gladly be the first to admit that stealth, for the Thief, needs a solid nerf. But beyond that, the Thief is really not that good, at all.

The Thief has the lowest base health, along with medium armor. Next to no boon effects (this makes a huge difference). One viable AoE weapon. Weak condition damage options. Traps and Venom skills are a waste of utility slots. And no way to support allies outside of AoE stealth and reviving. The reason why you see so many Backstab Thieves, is not only because it can down a player fast, it’s also because it’s about the only viable build the Thief has. Before everyone realized how powerful Backstab is, the Thief was the least played profession in the game.

Penguin.5197:

DeadlySynz.3471:

I wonder what they will end up doing about stealth. I’m fairly certain that they won’t touch stealth in itself, but more than likely they are going to add a couple of hard counters to at least a couple of classes.

My guess is they may buff some ranger pets to auto-detect stealth, as it seems only fitting some pets should be able to do so given their heightened senses..

Now the question is, how would thieves feel about that if Anet took that route? If a ranger had a pet out that revealed stealthed units (which you know most rangers would be using in WvW at that point). What would you guys do exactly?

When that happens, thieves would just cry on forums that they’re useless now, can’t do anything, etc etc. Well if guardians can survive through boon hate, then thieves can also survive stealth hate.

No…Warriors have to spec into Boon Hate and make their build be about that. That is Fine.

A Ranger specing into Stealth Removal, or even having a pets ability as Stealth Removal would be fine IMO

Not every single class and every single build has boon hate.

The ceiling on thief is much higher than any other class because they have a plethora of escapism and re-stealthing, it’s easy to break away , come back , pick and prod, break away, come back , prick and prod, break away, come back until you get them low enough for the thief’s dmg increases to kick in. It’s a common strategy with great s/d and d/p thieves. This is nothing new in the game but that’s doesn’t mean it’s not overpowered and shouldn’t be looked at so I’ll bite from my personal experience with really good thieves.

A well played s/d thief can and will be able to take out any class in the game , all it takes is zerker gear and a good sense of dodging and understanding their attacks. The problem with this , it’s not likewise with ANY other class. If you’ve ever watched Triggerless or Incarnadyne play thief class, you’ll know this very easily as you probably won’t be able to kill them. They’re too good with what they get in a fight utility wise, the issue is that for most other classes, no matter how good you get with what you get utility wise in a fight, you still won’t be able to counter them due to their escapism, regen , condi removal and most importantly damage, no matter how many aoes you have. It’s plain and simple.

If you don’t understand what I’m getting at I’ll take sort of a diff angle. Thieves having the plethora of escape utility pretty much PUTS them at the bunker level as they can get back to full health going back into stealth repeatedly, it acts the same way except you’re doing it manually as opposed to it happening automatically but at the same time they’re able to equip themselves in COMPLETE zerker gear (yes, full zerker gear and jewelry) and chain up insane crit damage while still maintaining the ‘bunker effect’ due to those escapes and heals and condi removal. In turn making it the ultimate mixture for fighting people, it truly is a 1-in-all build for thieves and is also a reason why it’s the most used setups in the game FOR thieves as you can get almost 100% crit chance with >100% crit dmg.

I think that’s the biggest issue people run into, myself included.

Bad thieves are easy as hell to kill, but so is every other bad class. You can still kill just about any good player with a thief due to your ability to get out and come back repeatedly which is far superior to any class’s longevity in combat regardless of how good they are.

This is obvious and apparent and any thief shouldn’t be able to deny this. The issue is, what do we do about it? I don’t think taking stealth away is the answer, but there needs to be something put in place to fix the minor aspects that make this class setup unkillable in the right hands.