Guild Wars 2

Will there be any plans to support the newly announced Steam OS?

http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/

I know there’s been a lot of requests for Linux support in the past, but this seems like a great compromise. Valve has already done a lot of the work in making gaming viable on a Linux platform, so if Linux support was ever going to happen, SteamOS seems like it’d be the easiest route.

Well all of GW1 is on steam, I think its a high possiblity once everything gets settled with the OS launch, and they release the Skills Template, to make it more convient to set up a controller, even though that can still be done now.

Unlike Diablo 3 which isn’t even crossplatform, I’m sure the GW2 comunity would be Far more accepting of console players given the chance. I for one would be more than willing to buy another account for a steam console. If i could play with a friend on the TV while i play on the PC that’s next to it.

Never going to happen and Arena Net themselves have already told us all way. They have already said that they focus their development time on things that effect the largest possible percentage of the community, they focus on balancing only the most played classes and put issue that effect lesser played classes and races on the back burning until they stumble blindly into some extra time. Arena Net; by their own admission, only care about the majority.

What does that have to do with this thread? Simple; MacOS users are a gaming minority. And Linux? Don’t make me laugh. Oh sure both happen, but how often? Exactly how big of a percentage are we talking about here? Obviously not big enough.

I’m just saying, that it might not be that much work for them to tap into console players, which is a large player base. Since everyone is anticipating next gen consoles now, this is possible. Realistically It’ll probably come to past once the SteamOS proves itself, because as you said Anet would rather focus on developing their game as they should.

It’ll just be a shame, since dosen’t go directly against their plans to not support consoles at this time.

90% of us have Steam installed already, and many are looking to ditch Windows. The only reason we haven’t yet is because if it’s necessity to play games. SteamOS will change that. They’ve already contributed a lot to creating a strong gaming backbone for Linux. SteamOS adoption is set to be huge, and not just for consoles, but for existing gaming PCs as well.

I’d be eager to see ArenaNet’s opinion of it. I know in the past they’ve stated that they’d like to develop a Linux port, but it wasn’t financially viable. If SteamOS takes off like I think it will, then it might start to make financial sense.

Chances are not gonna happen in the foreseeable future.

SteamOS is linux based, GW2 engine seems to be very windows dependant for the time being. The mac version, for example, is basically a tweaked version of the windows client running trough cider (http://transgaming.com/cider), so basically it’s like releasing a linux version by making it sure it runs under wine and bundling it with the game… which is really the one way I can see GW2 running on steamOS (according to wine’s appDB GW2 does run in wine, but slower than under windows… which seems to mostly echo the OSX users experience).

i would say Steam OS will allow us to play any win XP , win 7 games.

no need for the developers to do anything.

because Steam OS will be that awesome.

My guess is no they most likely will not support Steam OS in the traditional since. The new Steam OS is based off Linux thus the reason I say there will be no support. What you will most likely be able to do is stream your GW2 from your PC to the Steam OS box you have setup.

Chance’s are that any non Linux gaming title will not natively work on a PC running Steam OS.

Like so many other’s I am eagerly awaiting the day I can ditch my Window’s for Linux/Mac setup.

You don’t get current games or their developers to change to a different OS. Instead you build the OS that brings the games to it.

Until you have a major adoption of an OS by gamers you will not get things to change.

GOSU.9574:

You don’t get current games or their developers to change to a different OS. Instead you build the OS that brings the games to it.

Until you have a major adoption of an OS by gamers you will not get things to change.

Well, that’s sort of the point. Many people have been clamoring for a Linux port, but Linux isn’t an easy OS to port games to. Because of this, Valve creates a Linux distro specifically catering to gaming. The question now is, which developers will be on board at launch, and which will be waiting until wider adoption. Steam OS looks to be a pretty big game changer though. I’d consider this bigger news than the next-gen consoles.

Of course, this would require ditching DirectX and adopting OpenGL, which is probably the major hindrance to not only this, but the native Mac client too.

inscribed.6849:

GOSU.9574:

You don’t get current games or their developers to change to a different OS. Instead you build the OS that brings the games to it.

Until you have a major adoption of an OS by gamers you will not get things to change.

Well, that’s sort of the point. Many people have been clamoring for a Linux port, but Linux isn’t an easy OS to port games to. Because of this, Valve creates a Linux distro specifically catering to gaming. The question now is, which developers will be on board at launch, and which will be waiting until wider adoption. Steam OS looks to be a pretty big game changer though. I’d consider this bigger news than the next-gen consoles.

Of course, this would require ditching DirectX and adopting OpenGL, which is probably the major hindrance to not only this, but the native Mac client too.

I am not in the loop on this OS, but if it fails to get developers of hardware to put out quality drivers, it’s not gonna make much of a dent.

I really want SteamOS to do well, i’ll probably grab a copy of it. Hopefully i won’t need to have dual boot

Why? Linux is the most horrible gaming OS, and everyone who plays videogames seriously owns or should own a Windows machine. Those with Linux gaming boxes are merely trying to square the circle. I don’t think it is in A.nets best interest to support an obscure Linux distro.

Valve being part of the joke doesn’t make it less of a joke.

marnick.4305:

Why? Linux is the most horrible gaming OS, and everyone who plays videogames seriously owns or should own a Windows machine. Those with Linux gaming boxes are merely trying to square the circle. I don’t think it is in A.nets best interest to support an obscure Linux distro.

Valve being part of the joke doesn’t make it less of a joke.

That’s not a very rational or realistic attitude. Linux is in no way a “horrible gaming OS”, it’s just one which companies don’t offer strong support for. There is nothing inherent about it that makes it bad for gaming. Indeed, inherently, it’s got more potential than Windows.

SteamOS will live and die on whether people actually adopt it, and whether Valve can convince developers that it’s worth making a SteamOS version. Essentially, if you’re going to make a Mac version of a game, it’s probably little hassle to make a SteamOS version, as OpenGL vs DirectX is the big deal here. Given we’re seeing games being developed for PC, PS4 and Xbone, it’s obviously a small leap from there to SteamOS, because they’re already supporting one non-DirectX device.

That said, it could be a giant failure – but it is not the forgone conclusion you are bizarrely insisting that it is.

As for GW2, I don’t anticipate a SteamOS version unless SteamOS gets big – which will not likely be for at least two years, probably longer. If they got up to even a 30% marketshare among PC gamers, I think then it would become a serious consideration. That’s a long way off, though. I’d expect to see console versions sooner than that.

Eurhetemec.9052:

marnick.4305:

Why? Linux is the most horrible gaming OS, and everyone who plays videogames seriously owns or should own a Windows machine. Those with Linux gaming boxes are merely trying to square the circle. I don’t think it is in A.nets best interest to support an obscure Linux distro.

Valve being part of the joke doesn’t make it less of a joke.

That’s not a very rational or realistic attitude. Linux is in no way a “horrible gaming OS”, it’s just one which companies don’t offer strong support for. There is nothing inherent about it that makes it bad for gaming. Indeed, inherently, it’s got more potential than Windows.

Windows has a huge backer forcing standards. That backer is the largest software company in the world. This means that companies like AMD and nVidia can actually build videocards supported by every serious gaming machine in the world. Furthermore, DirectX allows for relatively easy programming in a stable environment.

Compare to Linux, which is at the whim of the community. That’s a real problem, for example openGL can never, ever, gain the support of directX, simply because it’s impossible to control the community and yet that’s a requirement demanded by companies like nVidia, AMD, Intel and … Arena.net. You simply don’t know what OpenGL is going to look like in 5 years, and that’s a huge problem.

Commercial firms will never seriously back community projects like Linux. It’ll always be a joke, and this time Valve is in on it.

SteamOS will live and die on whether people actually adopt it, and whether Valve can convince developers that it’s worth making a SteamOS version. Essentially, if you’re going to make a Mac version of a game, it’s probably little hassle to make a SteamOS version, as OpenGL vs DirectX is the big deal here. Given we’re seeing games being developed for PC, PS4 and Xbone, it’s obviously a small leap from there to SteamOS, because they’re already supporting one non-DirectX device.

Quote the contrary. It’s a huge leap from stable, multi-national backed hardware and software, to a collection of individual community managed software. SteamOS can only work for as long as Valve manages to define, very strictly, what all the components have to look like, including but not limited to the Linux kernel and OpenGL itself. But doesn’t that defeat the entire idea of open-source itself? At the exact point where SteamOS becomes viable, it ceases being a Linux distro.

That said, it could be a giant failure – but it is not the forgone conclusion you are bizarrely insisting that it is.

Why do people insist on using Linux for games, instead of stuff where Linux is actually useful and superior to Windows.
It’s not bizarre to insist that Linux for games is going to do what Linux for games has always done: Fail. To assume SteamOS is going to fail as a serious gaming OS is the rational and safe choice. I wouldn’t mind if SteamOS succeeded in one way or another, but I wouldn’t bet on it either.

As for GW2, I don’t anticipate a SteamOS version unless SteamOS gets big – which will not likely be for at least two years, probably longer. If they got up to even a 30% marketshare among PC gamers, I think then it would become a serious consideration. That’s a long way off, though. I’d expect to see console versions sooner than that.

I’d be very, very surprised if SteamOS ever reached 1% marketshare amongst gamers. By that I mean, SteamOS as their main OS, not a dual boot trial and remove. It’s just another Linux distro to try and never use. Add it to the list…

marnick.4305:

Eurhetemec.9052:

marnick.4305:

Why? Linux is the most horrible gaming OS, and everyone who plays videogames seriously owns or should own a Windows machine. Those with Linux gaming boxes are merely trying to square the circle. I don’t think it is in A.nets best interest to support an obscure Linux distro.

Valve being part of the joke doesn’t make it less of a joke.

That’s not a very rational or realistic attitude. Linux is in no way a “horrible gaming OS”, it’s just one which companies don’t offer strong support for. There is nothing inherent about it that makes it bad for gaming. Indeed, inherently, it’s got more potential than Windows.

Windows has a huge backer forcing standards. That backer is the largest software company in the world. This means that companies like AMD and nVidia can actually build videocards supported by every serious gaming machine in the world. Furthermore, DirectX allows for relatively easy programming in a stable environment.

Compare to Linux, which is at the whim of the community. That’s a real problem, for example openGL can never, ever, gain the support of directX, simply because it’s impossible to control the community and yet that’s a requirement demanded by companies like nVidia, AMD, Intel and … Arena.net. You simply don’t know what OpenGL is going to look like in 5 years, and that’s a huge problem.

Commercial firms will never seriously back community projects like Linux. It’ll always be a joke, and this time Valve is in on it.

SteamOS will live and die on whether people actually adopt it, and whether Valve can convince developers that it’s worth making a SteamOS version. Essentially, if you’re going to make a Mac version of a game, it’s probably little hassle to make a SteamOS version, as OpenGL vs DirectX is the big deal here. Given we’re seeing games being developed for PC, PS4 and Xbone, it’s obviously a small leap from there to SteamOS, because they’re already supporting one non-DirectX device.

Quote the contrary. It’s a huge leap from stable, multi-national backed hardware and software, to a collection of individual community managed software. SteamOS can only work for as long as Valve manages to define, very strictly, what all the components have to look like, including but not limited to the Linux kernel and OpenGL itself. But doesn’t that defeat the entire idea of open-source itself? At the exact point where SteamOS becomes viable, it ceases being a Linux distro.

That said, it could be a giant failure – but it is not the forgone conclusion you are bizarrely insisting that it is.

Why do people insist on using Linux for games, instead of stuff where Linux is actually useful and superior to Windows.
It’s not bizarre to insist that Linux for games is going to do what Linux for games has always done: Fail. To assume SteamOS is going to fail as a serious gaming OS is the rational and safe choice. I wouldn’t mind if SteamOS succeeded in one way or another, but I wouldn’t bet on it either.

As for GW2, I don’t anticipate a SteamOS version unless SteamOS gets big – which will not likely be for at least two years, probably longer. If they got up to even a 30% marketshare among PC gamers, I think then it would become a serious consideration. That’s a long way off, though. I’d expect to see console versions sooner than that.

I’d be very, very surprised if SteamOS ever reached 1% marketshare amongst gamers. By that I mean, SteamOS as their main OS, not a dual boot trial and remove. It’s just another Linux distro to try and never use. Add it to the list…

Just leaving this here:

http://i.imgur.com/pFv37OM.jpg

Sounds somewhat legit, but who knows.

marnick.4305:

I’d be very, very surprised if SteamOS ever reached 1% marketshare amongst gamers. By that I mean, SteamOS as their main OS, not a dual boot trial and remove. It’s just another Linux distro to try and never use. Add it to the list…

This is really hilarious. The idea you have that because Linux is open-source, it doesn’t have standards? I mean man what? You are literally completely ignorant about Linux.

You do realize, right, that pretty much 75%+ of the servers in the world, including those used by most major stock exchanges, use Linux, right? And you seriously think Linux has no “standards” and thus “cannot be developed for in a serious way”.

Wow. That is really… a thing. I dunno what to tell you, but you are wrong. Hilariously wrong.

EDIT – Wow, if that is true about Source 2, and they manage a good PS4 port… that could have some serious consequences for multi-platform gaming in general, not just SteamOS.

This game was built years ago on an old direct x 9 architecture.
The programming alone for another OS would be atrocious.

MMOs cost alot of money to make, why put more money into something most people aren’t going to use. Ultimately left to ncsoft, not anet, in a decision like this and ncsoft will not make an investment like this because the return value is far less then the initial cost.

Gaming alone wont make or break this. I’m not a fanboy of any OS…but Windows is reigning King. People who want Linux as a main OS or even want to dual-boot Windows and another OS is a minority. Not to mention competing with the PS4 and XBone and to a lesser extent, Nintendo.
You also have Apple out there, Android seeping in via Kickstarter projects like Ouya and Nvidia trying their hand at a platform.
I know very little about OS’s workings besides Windows is bloatware (unlike the majority of MMO forum goers who are self-proclaimed experts), but its reigning king and will be catered to because of its compatibility with not only games, but pretty well every other program people want and ease of use for non-techies.
In the end sadly, it doesnt come down to how efficient it is, how good it is, or how powerful it is…..it comes down to how many people accept it as a main and convenient OS. Without market acceptance and saturation, you can forget porting any existing games to it, it wouldnt be worth the cost. And any new games would be available on Windows and Steam both, which again prevents acceptance as there’s no exclusive reason to get a Steam-only box.

marnick.4305:

That’s a real problem, for example openGL can never, ever, gain the support of directX, simply because it’s impossible to control the community … You simply don’t know what OpenGL is going to look like in 5 years, and that’s a huge problem.

That’s an extremely ironic example.

OpenGL is a graphics standard (or API), just like DirectX, and is independent of the platform (so no, it’s not “for Linux”). Right now it’s most widely used in mobile applications (iOS/Android), and although it’s rarely used in AAA titles (Rage), it’s supported by all major graphics cards released within the last forever.

I don’t think you know what you’re talking about. So please don’t.

It’s probably going to fall onto Valve to implement Windows APIs on Linux. PS4 will have an implementation of DirectX.
Performance is already kind of iffy so this game will be terrabad if it’s running through virtualization.

This is for some future Steam console.

None of that really matters. GW2 isn’t available on steam right now. All the reasons (whatever they may be) are probably going to apply to SteamOS.

As for the whole Linux thing, some of the game engines out there already support it. Depending on how much things are handled/features used by the devs it could be very easy or somewhat difficult to put out a Linux build in addition to other platforms.

The biggest problem for those would be support. If you release for a platform you have to provide support and also do testing for those platforms.

Eurhetemec.9052:

marnick.4305:

I’d be very, very surprised if SteamOS ever reached 1% marketshare amongst gamers. By that I mean, SteamOS as their main OS, not a dual boot trial and remove. It’s just another Linux distro to try and never use. Add it to the list…

This is really hilarious. The idea you have that because Linux is open-source, it doesn’t have standards? I mean man what? You are literally completely ignorant about Linux.

You do realize, right, that pretty much 75%+ of the servers in the world, including those used by most major stock exchanges, use Linux, right? And you seriously think Linux has no “standards” and thus “cannot be developed for in a serious way”.

Wow. That is really… a thing. I dunno what to tell you, but you are wrong. Hilariously wrong.

EDIT – Wow, if that is true about Source 2, and they manage a good PS4 port… that could have some serious consequences for multi-platform gaming in general, not just SteamOS.

Did you realize I said that Linux should do what Linux is best at …. servers, certain embedded systems, extremely optimized code? I never said Linux was universally bad. But neither is it universally good. So don’t try to strawman me like that. I’ve been working with most major operating systems. Real work, not hobbying at home with the pc my parents gave me. I know when to use Linux but I also know when to use Windows.

You simply have no idea what you’re talking about. Have you even used Linux for one day in your life? Have you tried to run GW1 or GW2 on it? Tried to make something simple as a Razer Naga work? It would help if you had any experience about what you’re talking about. Sorry mate, not impressed. I was like you 10 years ago, posting away on my Windows 98 SE about the power of Linux. Ye … good times. But I moved on.
One day you’ll learn that strengths come with weaknesses, which is nothing to be ashamed off. Linux being an awesome OS for certain things means it’s bad for gaming. It’s like racing with a tractor against a Ferrari … on a freshly plowed corn field. Ferrari will lose. Strengths … weaknesses. Nothing is universally good. That’s the way it is.

But let me qualify my posts a bit.

It’s not that I don’t want an alternative. It’s just that I’m extremely skeptical. It’s not like this hasn’t been tried before 100 times. It fails every. single. time. Maybe SteamOS could be the next big thing in gaming but again … I’m extremely skeptical. It’d probably good even, but I just don’t see it happen.
The Linux fans are having a field day, because once again someone is making a Windows-killer distro. That’s like arguing about WoW killers. It’s pointless. But hey … maybe this is the one. Maybe this time, history isn’t going to repeat. Prove me wrong, I’d be happy to.

SteamOS will support a very minuscule amount of games natively. But if the streaming works as it should, I could imagine getting a lightweight SteamOS streamer in the living room.

marnick.4305:

But let me qualify my posts a bit.

It’s not that I don’t want an alternative. It’s just that I’m extremely skeptical. It’s not like this hasn’t been tried before 100 times. It fails every. single. time. Maybe SteamOS could be the next big thing in gaming but again … I’m extremely skeptical. It’d probably good even, but I just don’t see it happen.
The Linux fans are having a field day, because once again someone is making a Windows-killer distro. That’s like arguing about WoW killers. It’s pointless. But hey … maybe this is the one. Maybe this time, history isn’t going to repeat. Prove me wrong, I’d be happy to.

I’ve used Linux before. I don’t like Linux, and reading that into my posts is all on you, not from what I’ve said. It isn’t my preference, but what I am saying is that your earlier arguments were complete nonsense* and full of vitriol and hyperbole. I won’t hold that against you, though, as this qualifier makes more sense.

Skepticism is fine and makes sense. I too am skeptical re: SteamOS. But it has a chance. It won’t be soon and it won’t be some killer blow, but it could be that in four-five years, it’s actually a big deal. It’s a real “let’s wait and see” deal. No-one with remotely this oomph has tried anything like this before.

Microsoft are faltering on every front – Windows 8 is mediocre at best, not a real improvement from 7 at all, mobile market share is tiny, GFWL is being retired and was an unmitigated disaster for PC gaming, and so on, and even the Xbone is looking like it’s going to be marginally inferior to machine $100 cheaper than it (and I’m no Sony fan). I think if there was an ever a chance… this is it.

• = For example “bad for gaming”. No, if anything, the inherent setup of Linux and much, much lower load on the system (of any sensible setup) is inherently better for gaming – what Linux is missing is serious support for gaming. Valve are capable of changing that. If the rumours about Source2 are true, then they are already a lot of the way there, potentially. Or not! We’ll see. But spitting at it is just silly.

marnick.4305:

There’s just too many incompatible distros to support compared to exactly 1 Windows. With the backing of Valve, this could be avoided, but at the cost of Linux being Linux. We’ll have to wait and see.

Three Windows right now, actually – Vista, 7 and 8 are currently being support, and are not all running the same DirectX (even though they could, if MS wasn’t trying to use it push people to upgrade).

I agree though – SteamOS would not be “the real” Linux. It would be SteamOS, for better and worse.

I Think SteamOS could be the real deal for gaming on Linux. Because with SteamOS we get a “closed” System designed for gaming with a big backer behind it. And additionally Steam brings tons of games in one Platform.
Yes, right now only few support Linux. I Think some will get ported but most will not. But I think a there will be also better Wine Support for those other games (probably Wine is build in SteamOS already ?)

And saying, that Linux should be used the way it was designed for is a bit odd, because Linux is only the Kernel, the rest of the Distro defines what it can do and what it can’t do.

PS: Saying SteamOS will become a “closed” System, it is a two-edged sword. On one hand, no one will release a game for those thousands of combinations of Software available. So having one System is a good move. BUT Linux meant to be free, in the way of modifying it. And to me that seems to be a bad move for linux too.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i would say Steam OS will allow us to play any win XP , win 7 games.

no need for the developers to do anything.

because Steam OS will be that awesome.

I’ve heard that it has already cured several diseases and that you can actually divide by zero on Steam OS.

Eurhetemec.9052:

marnick.4305:

But let me qualify my posts a bit.

It’s not that I don’t want an alternative. It’s just that I’m extremely skeptical. It’s not like this hasn’t been tried before 100 times. It fails every. single. time. Maybe SteamOS could be the next big thing in gaming but again … I’m extremely skeptical. It’d probably good even, but I just don’t see it happen.
The Linux fans are having a field day, because once again someone is making a Windows-killer distro. That’s like arguing about WoW killers. It’s pointless. But hey … maybe this is the one. Maybe this time, history isn’t going to repeat. Prove me wrong, I’d be happy to.

I’ve used Linux before. I don’t like Linux, and reading that into my posts is all on you, not from what I’ve said. It isn’t my preference, but what I am saying is that your earlier arguments were complete nonsense* and full of vitriol and hyperbole. I won’t hold that against you, though, as this qualifier makes more sense.

I merely stated the facts for Linux as a gaming OS. If those facts sound like vitriol and hyperbole, maybe that says more about Linux for gaming than me. I didn’t say anything which wasn’t true. There’s simply not much positive to say. After almost 30 years of Linux, it’s still an infantile OS when it comes to gaming. That’s the blunt truth and I’m not going to sugar coat it.

Skepticism is fine and makes sense. I too am skeptical re: SteamOS. But it has a chance. It won’t be soon and it won’t be some killer blow, but it could be that in four-five years, it’s actually a big deal. It’s a real “let’s wait and see” deal. No-one with remotely this oomph has tried anything like this before.

Most who do this make a console, and that’s exactly what many expect to be Valve’s end game.

Microsoft are faltering on every front – Windows 8 is mediocre at best, not a real improvement from 7 at all, mobile market share is tiny, GFWL is being retired and was an unmitigated disaster for PC gaming, and so on, and even the Xbone is looking like it’s going to be marginally inferior to machine $100 cheaper than it (and I’m no Sony fan). I think if there was an ever a chance… this is it.

Don’t forget that even if there’s a tiny chance, SteamOS is still going against the largest corporation in IT. I have been using Windows 8 for almost a year now (dev preview) and I don’t agree with the hyperbole in your post. It’s a huge improvement over Windows 7, but not that apparent at first. There’s a learning curve, agreed, but after that Windows 8 is vastly superior.

As far as the XBox One is concerned … we’ll have to see. It’s almost like Microsoft is trying to repeat Sony’s mistakes from last generation. Windows Mobile is another discussion entirely. Nokia 3310 ftw.

Steam OS will not be a platform that publishers other than Valve will write to.

Draco.2806:

I think you give the devs too much credit.

There’s still no Mac support (meaning no OpenGL support, which is what Linux typically uses), and the game barely even supports its Windows build (horrid performance and no 64-bit client).

That said, if they do round up the MacOS port, they can probably do Linux/SteamOS right after considering most of the hard work will be done by then.

That’s what I’m seeing. Mac OS is not that difficult to port games over to. Blizzard has done it consistantly for years, they practically GIVE you all the tools to do it right on Apple’s website and anything missing is free to the public on many other devs websites so the delay is just another example of the lack of concern for the game imo. People often talk about how successful WoW is well one of the reasons it is so successful is because they have native Mac support right from the beginning with no hiccups.

Adding this to steam would allow people to connect in ways they simply don’t offer in game right now. It would actually improve their title. Not sure what the issue is really.

tigirius.9014:

Draco.2806:

I think you give the devs too much credit.

There’s still no Mac support (meaning no OpenGL support, which is what Linux typically uses), and the game barely even supports its Windows build (horrid performance and no 64-bit client).

That said, if they do round up the MacOS port, they can probably do Linux/SteamOS right after considering most of the hard work will be done by then.

That’s what I’m seeing. Mac OS is not that difficult to port games over to. Blizzard has done it consistantly for years, they practically GIVE you all the tools to do it right on Apple’s website and anything missing is free to the public on many other devs websites so the delay is just another example of the lack of concern for the game OS imo. People often talk about how successful WoW is well one of the reasons it is so successful is because they have native Mac support right from the beginning with no hiccups.

Adding this to steam would allow people to connect in ways they simply don’t offer in game right now. It would actually improve their title. Not sure what the issue is really.

Had to fix that for truth.

I don’t think Mac support has anything at all to do with the success of WoW. Props to Blizzard for including support, but don’t give it undue credit.

marnick.4305:

Don’t forget that even if there’s a tiny chance, SteamOS is still going against the largest corporation in IT. I have been using Windows 8 for almost a year now (dev preview) and I don’t agree with the hyperbole in your post. It’s a huge improvement over Windows 7, but not that apparent at first. There’s a learning curve, agreed, but after that Windows 8 is vastly superior.

It is not “vastly superior”. Not even the most generous reviewer would agree with that, seriously. That is the worst kind of hyperbole. I’ve been using it for a while at work. It’s mediocre, and not an full “improvement” from Win 7 at all (unlike going from XP to 7, or Vista or 7 – even XP to Vista, if you ignored the bugs, which were all fixed within a year, was much more of an upgrade), merely a sidegrade or the slightest of upgrades. The performance is marginally better and that’s the only real improvement, but that comes at the cost of inferior usability for most users. It’s not a total disaster, but it’s rather pushing people away from Windows as an OS and from PCs as a device, at a time when they need to be pulled towards it, pushing them directly into the hands of MacOS (I’ve seen so many people swap to Macs, those filthy things, from PC, instead of go to Win 8 that it’s pretty sad – and all the serious PC gamers I know have stuck with 7!) and tablets – and not seriously overpriced and equally so-so (price considered) Windows tablets like Surface (as one can see from their sales).

As for Linux, no, not everything you said was true – much of it was pure opinion. Words like “terrible” and “horrible” are emotion-filled opinion, not fact. Fact would be “has poor driver support for blah blah” or similar. Separating fact and opinion is pretty key here, as your “let me qualify” seemed to indicate you knew.

marnick.4305:

As far as the XBox One is concerned … we’ll have to see. It’s almost like Microsoft is trying to repeat Sony’s mistakes from last generation. Windows Mobile is another discussion entirely. Nokia 3310 ftw.

It is indeed pretty much like that. However, Windows Mobile fits in here because it is MS’ attempts to push Windows as a mobile and tablet platform that lead to pretty much everything anyone dislikes about Win8. Had they not indulged in all that idiocy, Win8 would have solid rave reviews like Win7 did, rather than extremely defensive good reviews, and plenty of “Meh” ones.

Valve’s whole SteamOS thing is only even happening because they are (rightly) suspicious of MS’, who seemed, with the Windows Store in Win8, and the way stuff is natively restricted (which you can override, of course, but some consumers won’t), to be basically be attempting to exclude stuff like Steam (not hard-exclude yet – but that’s the next step). Which was all extremely incompetent and perverse on MS’ part. They don’t seem to understand that, without Steam, I wouldn’t even still have a gaming PC, or be buying Windows anything.

marnick.4305:

Had to fix that for truth.

I don’t think Mac support has anything at all to do with the success of WoW. Props to Blizzard for including support, but don’t give it undue credit.

Somewhere between 6% and 10%+ of WoW players worldwide are on Macs.

Given that about 60% of WoW’s playerbase is Asian and using webcafes (which are 100% PC), we can work out that of the Western playerbase (who pays, on average, about 5x as much per “subscriber” and is more likely to buy vanity items), it maybe as high as 25% Mac.

So I think saying it has nothing to do with it all is a real “PC FOREVER MAC SUX!”-type comment, rather than a realistic one. Macs do suck, but let’s be real about this – if you can get a popular, casual game on to them, that’s a big potential audience boost.

Actually, the Mac figure for WoW player engagement is around 28% (Euhetemec has it correct.) Which matches the current domestic consumer market share for the platform… these studios and publishers wouldn’t be doing this if there wasn’t a significant opportunity there for them.

It’s foolish in 2013 to think the Mac cannot play the same games as the PC, and even more foolish to think that Mac customers aren’t eager due to the starved market.

Here’s the thing. Linux is a good starting point of you want to customize a game/media console OS. Android, ChromeOS, both examples of a customize Linux kernel at a root of a device.

SteamOS is simply laying the framework for yet another console, except one that can be built by multiple manufactures for the sole purpose of being a game/media center hooked to your TV. You can push all the OpenXX standards for devices, OpenGL 4 is as feature complete as DirectX 11, it’s just nVidia and AMD don’t devote the same amount of resources in making OpenGL drivers as robust as Dx11. OpenAL for audio and OpenCL for GPU computation (for physics) covers the bases.

The question is, if you build a competent optimized game/media OS, will developers include it in the mix of target platforms? If Valve also release libraries that can make the port as seamless as possible, sure, why not. And there’s still Wine but that’s an imperfect solution.

And no surprise, Valve is looking for Beta testers for Steam Hardware.

http://techreport.com/news/25420/valve-announces-steam-hardware-plans-seeks-beta-testers

marnick.4305:

…

My God… You should really stop talking about stuff you obviously don’t understand: you’re embarrassing yourself.

Seriously, open some computer book or just don’t talk. I’m truly sorry if my words are offending to you but it really feels like when you’re talking about grown up stuff with a friend and that a kid just trying to enter the conversation saying kids stuff.

I won’t enter the debate Windows vs. Linux vs. MacOS here and I won’t answer you since a lot of people gave you good answers already; I’m just gonna stop there and answer to the initial post:

About SteamOS and Gw2, I (sadly) don’t think it will be made any time soon. ArenatNet said that they were using a heavily modified Gw1 engine, which is relying on DirectX a lot. If they would have to port the game natively, they would have to rewrite a part of the engine using OpenGL. And I’m not even talking about other Windows API :/

I think that Arkham Creed.7358 is actually right on one point: ArenaNet cares only about the majority and if the majority of their player base is running Windows, then they won’t bother with something else.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Never going to happen and Arena Net themselves have already told us all way. They have already said that they focus their development time on things that effect the largest possible percentage of the community,

You mean like that teq update?

Seriously though I agree. I doubt they would support the steam OS. I don’t actually think many games will support it though to be fair. It seems like more of a niche than anything. The are simply more benefits with a windows setup for gaming on a pc, and that’s already fallen by a huge margin. Considering that the best games, in my opinion of course, are not even porting to pc right away I doubt it will happen.

@Marnic while I think you are probably right about them not supporting steamos, you are way way way off in some of your understanding when it comes to os/programming. I don’t think you’ve studied much about linux either.

Oh to anyone interested about playing with a controller, yes it’s entirely possible. I use a 360 for pc that I bought for AC3. Works out great, I had to make an ahk script for it though so that it recenters the mouse/hides it etc. It isn’t ideal of course, but it works. Now if GW2 were only as fun as AC3.

I’d suspect that existing games that support Open GL will have a high chance of supporting Steam OS. Games that do not likely will not. That said new as yet unreleased games, not yet married to Direct X, have a better chance of choosing open GL and thus steam OS.

After all you can run an open GL game on windows AND the other OSes, whereas a direct X game engine is Windows only(barring use of WINE). So probably no guild wars 2 on steam OS, but maybe whatever project Arena net is planning for 2015+

Valve announced that SteamOS will be completely open source, and will operate like any tradition Linux distro on desktop PCs. They are simply gearing the new GUI towards a console/TV environment, but there’s nothing stopping us from using Gnome or whatever.

Also, NVidia has announced that they will begin specifically developing drivers for Linux, which is huge news. I would expect ATI to not be too far behind either.

So now we have a Linux distro with official driver support from NVidia, and a backbone geared specifically towards gaming. Gabe Newell has said the Source engine runs much faster on SteamOS than any other platform, Windows included.

I think most developers would be wise to begin using OpenGL over DirectX, since DirectX only gets you Windows and XBox, while OpenGL gets you Windows, SteamOS/Linux, Mac, PS3/4, Nintendo, Android, etc. Hopefully the SteamOS release includes some tools for porting from DirectX to OpenGL much easier.

inscribed.6849:

Valve announced that SteamOS will be completely open source, and will operate like any tradition Linux distro on desktop PCs. They are simply gearing the new GUI towards a console/TV environment, but there’s nothing stopping us from using Gnome or whatever.

Also, NVidia has announced that they will begin specifically developing drivers for Linux, which is huge news. I would expect ATI to not be too far behind either.

So now we have a Linux distro with official driver support from NVidia, and a backbone geared specifically towards gaming. Gabe Newell has said the Source engine runs much faster on SteamOS than any other platform, Windows included.

I think most developers would be wise to begin using OpenGL over DirectX, since DirectX only gets you Windows and XBox, while OpenGL gets you Windows, SteamOS/Linux, Mac, PS3/4, Nintendo, Android, etc. Hopefully the SteamOS release includes some tools for porting from DirectX to OpenGL much easier.

Uh the driver thing seem a bit weird. So what the heck has NVidia been doing before? The oldest nvidia driver for linux I have sitting around is from March 2009.

As for being a wise developer. Using something like unreal engine which supports all those platforms seems even wiser.

Well, you’re mixing a few terms there. OpenGL and DirectX are APIs that the Unreal engine can use. The Unreal engine being available on all of those platforms is due to the fact that it can use either OpenGL or DirectX APIs.

As far as NVidia’s drivers on Linux prior to this, Linux has been largely ignored by NVidia, and drivers that have made it over have usually suffered from bugs and a severe lack of optimization. Now that NVidia has announced they are prioritizing Linux driver support, that means we can expect to see current, optimized drivers.

inscribed.6849:

Well, you’re mixing a few terms there. OpenGL and DirectX are APIs that the Unreal engine can use. The Unreal engine being available on all of those platforms is due to the fact that it can use either OpenGL or DirectX APIs.

As far as NVidia’s drivers on Linux prior to this, Linux has been largely ignored by NVidia, and drivers that have made it over have usually suffered from bugs and a severe lack of optimization. Now that NVidia has announced they are prioritizing Linux driver support, that means we can expect to see current, optimized drivers.

I was expecting Unreal and similar to be providing more of an abstraction which could generate code for both DirectX and OpenGL, a bit like how Cg can be compiled to DirectX or OpenGL shaders.

Why can’t any developers please just tell if there are any plans on making a Linux client or Steam OS client?

If there is any possibility that there will be a Linux version later through Steam, I will keep Windows and do the grinding stuff meanwhile. But if I delete Windows today and if the game make it to Linux within a year, it will be daunting to get back, since it will put me way back to where I would have my toons, and I would probably not bother getting back to the game, unless they remove the grinding stuff anyway.

RoterFuchs.9216:

GOSU.9574:

and the ONE failing Linux had was hardware manufacturers did NOT make quality drivers for Linux.

And you seriously think Valve did not consider that? What if they actually have hardware manufacturers on their side, willing to provide quality drivers?

Yes, yes, i’m sure that Valve has a much better influence on hardware producers than any other firm that tried exactly that before them. Like, for example, Sun/Oracle…

They are making an operating system designed for the living room like operating systems on the other consoles. Other manufactures will build these consoles based on Steam OS. When these consoles is build, the manufactures will not add hardware that is not supported in Linux. This hardware will probably be available for anyone that wants to make their own computer as well.

And there might be specific GPUs that is recommended for Steam OS, but the chain effect might be that nVidia and AMD will add more focus to their full range of GPUs. It seems already that AMD and nVidia have started focusing on better driver support for Linux in general. Since Steam OS is installable on any PC, and also, games that works on Steam OS will work in Steam Linux client, there might be a bigger mix of OSs in the computer gaming community.

There are many factors for why GPU providers would want to reach out to other platforms, Valve being an important one. Valve is a gaming company, they will probably have more influence that Sun/Oracle considering optimizing graphical performance is very important in video gaming. And Valve has probably not decided this over night without watching the Linux community on Steam, as well as being in contact with nVidia and AMD. They are also releasing a new solution for GPU providers to sell their products to the console market in a new way.

But the fact that nVidia has lost a very huge deal to AMD in China because of the lack of documentation and open driver support (they have now released a lot of documentation recently btw), and both Linus and many in the Linux community’s anger towards nVidia, as well as every other console in the Wii U, PS4 Xbox One generation got a deal with AMD, at least nVidia probably see a big reasons to get into this market.

So, I do believe the driver support from GPU providers will change drastically for Linux over the coming year.

I would love it if GW2 could run on Steam OS. But even if it could be streamed out of a normal Steam install to another machine I will be happy.