Guild Wars 2

This forum really demonstrates the paradox that exists within the minds of some, even many, gamers.

“There’s nothing to do at 80!”
True, there is nothing to do once you get to 80… nothing to do except for running thirty three dungeon paths, running Fractals which get harder the higher you get, while still having access to every event in the game because you can go to any level area and be scaled to the content (granted, the scaling doesn’t always work particularly well in the sub-15 zones) as well as WvW. And then there’s the skins and some items to work towards…

But those skins, and Axscended items, lead to the next problem:

“OMIGAWD GRIIIIIIIIND!”
First and foremost, skins are meaningless. The only thing they do is make you look cool, and even that is debatable in some cases. You do not need a Legendary. Legendaries are meant to be hard to get. They are meant to be uncommon and are out of reach of most people by design. If you want one you have to work for it, and you have to work hard over a long period of time. That’s why they are called “Legendary” rather than “Common as Muck”.

Ascended items are in a similar position, with the exception that you actually do need them… for high level Fractals. They’re nice to have in WvW but they don’t really make a huge difference, not yet anyway. You only need to grind for them if you intend to… grind Fractals, and the only reason to grind Fractals is for an increased challenge.

Some of you seem to have forgotten what the main topics of complaint were back when the game released: “OMG Karma gear costs too much, it’s ridiculous! Lower the price!” and “OMG dungeon gear is too expensive, it’s ridiculous! Lower the cost!” Now, nobody cares about dungeon or Karma gear simply because you don’t have to do anything to get them. Run a few dungeons and you have dungeon gear. Run around doing Events and you have more Karma than you can spend. It was the same back then, but all people could see was a “grind”.

As I understand it, the first Legendary was created in the last days of September. The first one I saw was that stupid looking Longbow in early October. The person using it was a Commander (another point of contention back then: “OMG Commander costs too much! It’s ridiculous!”). I could be wrong, but I haven’t seen this person, or at the very least that character, since about November. And that brings me to my point.

Some of you, probably many of you, have been playing since September, or even August, and are still working hard to get a Legendary, equip all your characters and to get Ascended gear. But you are still here. If you could get full exotics for 2g or with 2000 Karma or by doing each dungeon path once, if it only took you a week to get a Legendary or Ascended Back, you would have left this game a long time ago. And rightfully so, because there really would have been nothing to do at 80. The forums seem to be filled with people that feel somehow entitled to instant gratification but don’t seem to understand that that will result in a dead game. Once you have all your character slots filled with charcaters decked out in Ascended and Legendary gear, there is nothing to do. For all the complaints, you are still working towards these things because they are goals put in place specifically to keep you playing the game.

People really need to take a step back and think about things. Do you want a game that keeps you occupied for long periods of time, that gives you a reason to log in on a regular basis and has long-term goals? Or do you want a game that you can finish in a week and forget?

At this point in time, finish and forget is starting to sound good, before we’re handed even more gated and exclusionary material.

So, where is the finish line please?

@OP
You make some very good and valid points, but …..

You missed something, namely the quality of the journey getting to whatever goals a player sets. This encompasses everything from game mechanics and class balance, to a real or imaginary grind.

For me, the lack of Anet attention to the former will drive me away from this game long before the latter…

I see these posts and all I see is the OP talking himself out of quitting the game.

Side note – The problem is those tasks in GW2 are meaningless and unsatisfying to achieve, as opposed to other games.

Does the OP know what a forced option is?

Do you?

Nice attempt Sokar, but you missed the fact that those who complain there is nothing to do or that there is grind approach the game with a traditional mentality.
That defeats any logic you could ever explain because those people are expecting X while playing Y.

Red Falcon.8257:

Nice attempt Sokar, but you missed the fact that those who complain there is nothing to do or that there is grind approach the game with a traditional mentality.
That defeats any logic you could ever explain because those people are expecting X while playing Y.

Couldn’t have said that better.

It’s ok to be bored in GW2.

In my opinion; GW2 is breading a very casual type of gamer. A gamer that never fails at anything. This gamer always succeeds because everything around him poses no threat. The dailies have no hard mode that challenges him to acquire superior rewards.

Calae.1738:

It’s ok to be bored in GW2.

In my opinion; GW2 is breading a very casual type of gamer. A gamer that never fails at anything. This gamer always succeeds because everything around him poses no threat. The dailies have no hard mode that challenges him to acquire superior rewards.

Actually people do find some things challenging. See there’s two types of people. Super-uber people like yourself, and then people who don’t live, eat and breathe games. Older people, people with less time to focus on things, people who have families or lives.

So they don’t get to run through Arah path 4 very easily.

The open world, for the most part, is set up to be easy. Dungeons and fractals are more challenging. Sure some people won’t be challenged, but many people will. I find explorable mode dungeons, many of them anyway, to be challenging…still doable but challenging.

But for a lot of people, Orr is not all that easy. The temple events certainly aren’t easy anymore.

I think that they need to make a really really hard game, so all the people who want that level of challenge can all go hang out together and have a good time, and leave the casual, beautiful, fun stuff to those of us who actually play games to enjoy, or relax, or just have a good time.

Sorry bud, there is no challenge in GW2.

I’ve looked for it. Can’t find it. Even if the challenge existed somewhere it wouldn’t be rewarding enough to do it. I don’t care if the reward is cosmetic. There’s nothing in the game that makes me fail continuously and be rewarding enough for me to succeed. I succeed at everything without even trying.

Calae.1738:

Sorry bud, there is no challenge in GW2.

I’ve looked for it. Can’t find it. Even if the challenge existed somewhere it wouldn’t be rewarding enough to do it. I don’t care if the reward is cosmetic. There’s nothing in the game that makes me fail continuously and be rewarding enough for me to succeed. I succeed at everything without even trying.

Congratulations! You won the game!

Us mere mortals can only hope to follow in your footsteps one day. Have fun conquering your next challenge.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

At this point in time, finish and forget is starting to sound good, before we’re handed even more gated and exclusionary material.

So, where is the finish line please?

There is no single finish line, but you sound as if you have reached yours.

Typical themepark MMO. Lots of stuff to do to keep you interested in playing the game. None of them are inherently interesting for very long. Furthermore, the game has a very low degree of difficulty that only really gets harder when simple mechanics like “agony” or adding damage/health to mobs, like in FoTM, are introduced.

Very little in the way of cooperative team play, strategy or skill are required to play 95% of the content in this game.

What exactly is the “paradox” here? Do you mean…Misunderstanding? Misconception?

I play 1 – 2 hours per day max, and I have plenty to do with my 80’s and my alts. By the time I do the daily, which can take 20 minutes – 60 minutes depending on the mix and match I decide on. That leaves me a little time to explore, or maybe run a quick dungeon run, grind or craft. Yes, if you play 10 hours a day 7 days a week, I can see how this game gets tedious. So to those who insist on rushing through content only to find level 80 boring I am sorry that you felt you needed to level faster than I.

Harry

Daily dragon events and other events that drop rares, daily pve&pvp, monthly pve&pvp, WvW, PvP, crafting, living story, exploring…

I have plenty to do at 80

Sokar Rostau.7316:

People really need to take a step back and think about things. Do you want a game that keeps you occupied for long periods of time, that gives you a reason to log in on a regular basis and has long-term goals? Or do you want a game that you can finish in a week and forget?

I enjoy games that allow me to play with friends and offer interesting and fun gameplay. Chasing after shiny baubles with bigger numbers is neither interesting nor fun. /shrug

clay.7849:

Typical themepark MMO. Lots of stuff to do to keep you interested in playing the game. None of them are inherently interesting for very long. Furthermore, the game has a very low degree of difficulty that only really gets harder when simple mechanics like “agony” or adding damage/health to mobs, like in FoTM, are introduced.

Very little in the way of cooperative team play, strategy or skill are required to play 95% of the content in this game.

Try WvW. Might help.

< been playing since first beta, and I don’t have exotic armor yet. I’m still enjoying the game.

Like anything else, taking in the journey slowly is more rewarding overall.

Iruwen.3164:

clay.7849:

Typical themepark MMO. Lots of stuff to do to keep you interested in playing the game. None of them are inherently interesting for very long. Furthermore, the game has a very low degree of difficulty that only really gets harder when simple mechanics like “agony” or adding damage/health to mobs, like in FoTM, are introduced.

Very little in the way of cooperative team play, strategy or skill are required to play 95% of the content in this game.

Try WvW. Might help.

I did. Dropping AoE on zergs and watching bags rain overhead is fun, but not challenging.

WvW pretty much comes down to who has the best coverage and the most people playing. I agree that commanders probably have a much better time with the strategy thing, but that leaves out 99% of the rest of the people.

PvP doesn’t really even have that much team synergy. Its basically cap, hold, win.

I agree with the op, but as Red. Falcon said above, its impossible to ask this from people who approach the game differently. You could spend hours debating and talking rationally, but there will always be people who won’t listen or does not think you’re right and that they are absolutely right instead.

roachsrealm.9284:

< been playing since first beta, and I don’t have exotic armor yet. I’m still enjoying the game.

Like anything else, taking in the journey slowly is more rewarding overall.

I totally agree with you.
- When WoW introduced new expansions, there were always those who maxed the new level cap within the first few days, whereas I think it is more prudent to enjoy the game rather than rushing it.

I don’t feel like I absolutely have to rush to lvl 80 with any of my characters to accommodate those who are already there, and I find it stupid that people expect me to have read up on tactics on the Explorable Mode of dungeons and that I know every path there.
- This is why I play GW2 with a couple of friends. We play in our own pace and it is incredibly fun to do. There are a lot of things to do with your friends, and both Guild Wars 1 and 2 are all the more fun when playing together with others.

Take it slow and enjoy the ride. Rushing is not how any MMO was meant to be played, yet if you did you may experience how no MMO can accommodate to that (look at how easy WoW has become to accommodate this issue) since the incredible amount of new content that would have to be created is simply not possible for the dev team, especially if you are able to complete it all within a few days anyway.

kenshinakh.3672:

I agree with the op, but as Red. Falcon said above, its impossible to ask this from people who approach the game differently. You could spend hours debating and talking rationally, but there will always be people who won’t listen or does not think you’re right and that they are absolutely right instead.

That post kinda made me smile, lol. It’s primarly saying “I must be right because it’s me who is saying this. Stupid people who think the same of themselves.”

Shootsfoot.9276:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

At this point in time, finish and forget is starting to sound good, before we’re handed even more gated and exclusionary material.

So, where is the finish line please?

There is no single finish line, but you sound as if you have reached yours.

So just for good measure let’s add time managed content and constant nerfs on drops. How in the world does anyone think these things are acceptable?

Calae.1738:

Sorry bud, there is no challenge in GW2.

I’ve looked for it. Can’t find it. Even if the challenge existed somewhere it wouldn’t be rewarding enough to do it. I don’t care if the reward is cosmetic. There’s nothing in the game that makes me fail continuously and be rewarding enough for me to succeed. I succeed at everything without even trying.

And yet you still log in, at least to the forums regularly. If it’s that much of a bore to you, why not just move on? Hanging around here for the purpose of just hanging around is only going to turn you into a forum-troll eventually.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Calae.1738:

Sorry bud, there is no challenge in GW2.

I’ve looked for it. Can’t find it. Even if the challenge existed somewhere it wouldn’t be rewarding enough to do it. I don’t care if the reward is cosmetic. There’s nothing in the game that makes me fail continuously and be rewarding enough for me to succeed. I succeed at everything without even trying.

And yet you still log in, at least to the forums regularly. If it’s that much of a bore to you, why not just move on? Hanging around here for the purpose of just hanging around is only going to turn you into a forum-troll eventually.

Just an advice for Calae.1738 : wait for Arch Age and next sandbox mmo’s.

Sadly there no back lash for thoughts who do not think on these forums. These are the same ppl who will post only bad things about the game and NEVER say thank you for things fixed. I am not sure if a down vote system world work the up vote system not doing all that great as is (get enofe ppl who think one way and you will get the max up vote regardless if its a good point or not).

I just tend to read the other post ppl have put on these forums to see if they are a good poster or if they are a bad poster and i tend to replay base off of that. Some times its worth quoting the poster from another thread to prove a point but it takes a lot of time. So we end up its a lot easier to make pointless post with no back up to that view then trying to think and reason out there view point.
(Its harder to think well so ppl just play the lowest denominator)

joric.1042:

Daily dragon events and other events that drop rares

And this is not grind mentality?!? Why don’t you do events in less populated zones? Oh yea, they don’t give you daily carrot.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Shootsfoot.9276:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

At this point in time, finish and forget is starting to sound good, before we’re handed even more gated and exclusionary material.

So, where is the finish line please?

There is no single finish line, but you sound as if you have reached yours.

So just for good measure let’s add time managed content and constant nerfs on drops. How in the world does anyone think these things are acceptable?

Because those that think it’s acceptable realize this is an MMO and the economy has to be managed with loot nerfs/buffs and the “time managed content” in this game is nowhere near required, but purely optional.

I love this game because WvW is active and an infinite skill ceiling, the amount of ways you can build classes/groups is miraculous to me compared to every other mmo, always an outnumbered fight to find if you want a challenge..

Fractals 40+ is the first MMO pve content I don’t get bored with, all of WoW’s instances and other games just become boring and routine, I actually have to concentrate and adapt my gear/build as it goes on, it’s very challenging and doesn’t take up my whole night and has great rewards(cool fractal skins, they drop alot at 40+).

Really excited about the next fractal type instance or the culling patch coming up… no subscription, no real need for gold it’s just fun money for cosmetics.. best online game ever for me.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Calae.1738:

Sorry bud, there is no challenge in GW2.

I’ve looked for it. Can’t find it. Even if the challenge existed somewhere it wouldn’t be rewarding enough to do it. I don’t care if the reward is cosmetic. There’s nothing in the game that makes me fail continuously and be rewarding enough for me to succeed. I succeed at everything without even trying.

And yet you still log in, at least to the forums regularly. If it’s that much of a bore to you, why not just move on? Hanging around here for the purpose of just hanging around is only going to turn you into a forum-troll eventually.

That’ll depend on how far the developers want to take this game. The fact that I’m still around means I still support the game. That’s not going to last long I think; 2013 is going to be an interesting year for the MMO genre.

Sovta.4719:

joric.1042:

Daily dragon events and other events that drop rares

And this is not grind mentality?!? Why don’t you do events in less populated zones? Oh yea, they don’t give you daily carrot.

I was just naming some examples, I do plenty of events in other areas less populated.

Sokar Rostau.7316:

snip

First off lets get a few things straight. There are 33 UNREWARDING dungeon paths. Doing more and more challenging Fractals? UNREWARDING. Going back and doing lower level zones? UNREWARDING. WvW is probably the most unrewarding thing in the game and if you’re having a bad night it’s actually punishing. Are you starting to get the picture? People want content to do that has a decent risk/time vs reward and there are so incredibly few in the game. The recent world boss loot just shows how badly people are starved for a decent reward when they flock for a RARE.

Now as for the grinding, yeah the game is heavily grind orientated and for the exact reason above, poor risk/time vs reward. Everything in this game gives you a small piece of a reward instead of an actual reward. Do a dungeon and get 60 tokens that get you 1/5th a pair of pants, while in other MMO’s the loot might be random but the reward is always there every run. By the way it isn’t a few dungeon runs to get gear, it’s 33+, it is still a grind and if you don’t remember the tokens per run were increased because before it was 90+ runs. I can honestly say that in all the MMO’s I’ve played I’ve never had to run a single dungeon 33+ times to get all the loot I wanted. The reason you don’t see people complain about the grind much anymore is because they no longer play.

If I could get full exotics for 2g, karma set for 2k, etc; I’d actually have multiple sets of gear and I’d have my other 6 alt level 80’s geared as well. I’d actually try some weird specs and so would a lot of people. The game currently so constricting that people don’t want to try weird gear specs because that’s a lot of time to get the gear needed and if it’s bad then they are out a bunch of time/money. That is also a huge balance issue, but that’s another thread. I would also have done all the dungeon paths because currently they are a giant waste of time.

Another major issue this game suffered from is skins. People will go after skins because they look cool, the problem GW2 has is that so few skins look good or different. Why does everyone go after CoF gear besides it being easy? The gear that looks different. All the other gear looks terrible or doesn’t look different enough when compared to something you can buy on the TP for 1-2g. ArenaNet desperately needs to hire more armor designers and increase the armor/weapon skins in the game. Legendaries are proof that people will go after skins, but instead they abandon skin progression and go for ascended stat progression.

I think you need to ask yourself whether you want a game that is unrewarding but lasts long time if you’re willing to grind for those rewards or play a game that is decently rewarding but only lasts a few months. I’d rather play a game that rewards my playtime than one where I’m trying to piece together a reward. At least if things are rewarding I can come back anytime and have fun, if you quit GW2 now you’re stuck behind time gates if you want ascended.

You’re looking at this from the perspective of a hardcore(or near) gamer. Try looking at it from a casual perspective because that’s who this game was marketed to before launch, where it takes easily a month just to get exotic gear, you don’t always log in everyday, and reward is weeks/months away.

Distaste.4801:

Sokar Rostau.7316:

snip

First off lets get a few things straight. There are 33 UNREWARDING dungeon paths. Doing more and more challenging Fractals? UNREWARDING. Going back and doing lower level zones? UNREWARDING. WvW is probably the most unrewarding thing in the game and if you’re having a bad night it’s actually punishing. Are you starting to get the picture? People want content to do that has a decent risk/time vs reward and there are so incredibly few in the game. The recent world boss loot just shows how badly people are starved for a decent reward when they flock for a RARE.

Now as for the grinding, yeah the game is heavily grind orientated and for the exact reason above, poor risk/time vs reward. Everything in this game gives you a small piece of a reward instead of an actual reward. Do a dungeon and get 60 tokens that get you 1/5th a pair of pants, while in other MMO’s the loot might be random but the reward is always there every run. By the way it isn’t a few dungeon runs to get gear, it’s 33+, it is still a grind and if you don’t remember the tokens per run were increased because before it was 90+ runs. I can honestly say that in all the MMO’s I’ve played I’ve never had to run a single dungeon 33+ times to get all the loot I wanted. The reason you don’t see people complain about the grind much anymore is because they no longer play.

If I could get full exotics for 2g, karma set for 2k, etc; I’d actually have multiple sets of gear and I’d have my other 6 alt level 80’s geared as well. I’d actually try some weird specs and so would a lot of people. The game currently so constricting that people don’t want to try weird gear specs because that’s a lot of time to get the gear needed and if it’s bad then they are out a bunch of time/money. That is also a huge balance issue, but that’s another thread. I would also have done all the dungeon paths because currently they are a giant waste of time.

Another major issue this game suffered from is skins. People will go after skins because they look cool, the problem GW2 has is that so few skins look good or different. Why does everyone go after CoF gear besides it being easy? The gear that looks different. All the other gear looks terrible or doesn’t look different enough when compared to something you can buy on the TP for 1-2g. ArenaNet desperately needs to hire more armor designers and increase the armor/weapon skins in the game. Legendaries are proof that people will go after skins, but instead they abandon skin progression and go for ascended stat progression.

I think you need to ask yourself whether you want a game that is unrewarding but lasts long time if you’re willing to grind for those rewards or play a game that is decently rewarding but only lasts a few months. I’d rather play a game that rewards my playtime than one where I’m trying to piece together a reward. At least if things are rewarding I can come back anytime and have fun, if you quit GW2 now you’re stuck behind time gates if you want ascended.

You’re looking at this from the perspective of a hardcore(or near) gamer. Try looking at it from a casual perspective because that’s who this game was marketed to before launch, where it takes easily a month just to get exotic gear, you don’t always log in everyday, and reward is weeks/months away.

I find GW2 to be infinitely more rewarding than games like WoW. I mean seriously, get a reward, now its obsolete, get a reward, now its obsolete. Talk about unrewarding…there’s a reason games like that are dying.

I think MMOs in general are falling behind in popularity. The instant gratification crowd (people born after 1992 typically) wants to start a game and have top level gear ASAP and when they get it they move on to another game. If the game takes too long to get that top level gear they say the game is too grindy and quit. There’s no satisfying people like this. At least not in an MMO.

Distaste.4801:

Snip

I’m a casual player. Those “unrewarding” things are things I find rewarding to me. Being casual doesn’t mean you automatically want everything easily… And the grind, it’s perspective.

Those 33 unrewarding dungeon paths: Enjoyable and interesting + their story mode is nice to do too.
WvW: Rewarding and enjoyable.
Grinding: The least amount I found so far in MMOs I enjoyed. I don’t run dungeons 33x times a day. I mix my gear between dungeons because they all offer the same gear. Gearing for one set probably takes me a week and a half with casual play, and it’s no grind because I’m relaxed and enjoying it.

If you could get full exotics so cheaply… what’s the point? My low level character has 2g already from doing events and leveling. Why should the game just hand out gear without me working for it? Since when did casual gaming become “Just hand me near-end game gear.”? lol. You’re making casual gamers look bad… and as a casual myself, I really don’t think you should say you’re the only “casual” perspective because I really don’t think that’s how casuals see the game.

In case you didn’t realize, you can work on legendaries while doing ascended. In my opinion, it’s better to progress slowly through the gear than to farm and then jump up because I find it much more fun and interesting to do so.

Fyi, if you quit GW2 now, you won’t be stuck behind a time gate. You still have to progress through it like everyone else. And the time gate is hardly large too. Anet adds more and more ways to get ascended as time goes on as shown with recent patches, so I see nothing stopping that trend.

That’s just my opinion as a “casual” player.

Pirlipat.2479:

kenshinakh.3672:

I agree with the op, but as Red. Falcon said above, its impossible to ask this from people who approach the game differently. You could spend hours debating and talking rationally, but there will always be people who won’t listen or does not think you’re right and that they are absolutely right instead.

That post kinda made me smile, lol. It’s primarly saying “I must be right because it’s me who is saying this. Stupid people who think the same of themselves.”

Lol, yeah xD. And when two people of the same mentality debate… nothing gets resolved! lol. One way to end those type of debate though is to take a middle route where you’re like "Okay, neither of us are right. It’s just opinions and let’s leave it at that. (Though secretly the one who said this first might feel like they’re the “winner”)."

Draknar.5748:

I think MMOs in general are falling behind in popularity. The instant gratification crowd (people born after 1992 typically) wants to start a game and have top level gear ASAP and when they get it they move on to another game. If the game takes too long to get that top level gear they say the game is too grindy and quit. There’s no satisfying people like this. At least not in an MMO.

MMOS falling behind in popularity?!?!?!?!?! Source
No satisfying people like this? I agree many want to rush content, but still for me it’s better to let them rush it and let ME choose my own pace then putting this new daily reward system (that makes you log in every day just for 1!!!!! piece of item) just to cover up lack of content and ideas.

Sovta.4719:

Draknar.5748:

I think MMOs in general are falling behind in popularity. The instant gratification crowd (people born after 1992 typically) wants to start a game and have top level gear ASAP and when they get it they move on to another game. If the game takes too long to get that top level gear they say the game is too grindy and quit. There’s no satisfying people like this. At least not in an MMO.

MMOS falling behind in popularity?!?!?!?!?! Source
No satisfying people like this? I agree many want to rush content, but still for me it’s better to let them rush it and let ME choose my own pace then putting this new daily reward system (that makes you log in every day just for 1!!!!! piece of item) just to cover up lack of content and ideas.

In MMOs that do that, you actually have a really huge grind. That’s because the devs have to account for the fact that since there’s no limit, gamers are free to play intensely for hours on end. To prevent your players from exhausting the game too quickly, they make the game much more grindy.

Take a look at Asian MMOs and you’ll know what I mean. Maplestory, vindictus… etc, are very very grindy because it’s needed to keep players from exhausting the game content quickly.

Yea, Asian MMOs are really loosing money, that’s why NCSoft bought Arenanet.

Sinifair.1026:

roachsrealm.9284:

< been playing since first beta, and I don’t have exotic armor yet. I’m still enjoying the game.

Like anything else, taking in the journey slowly is more rewarding overall.

I totally agree with you.
- When WoW introduced new expansions, there were always those who maxed the new level cap within the first few days, whereas I think it is more prudent to enjoy the game rather than rushing it.

I don’t feel like I absolutely have to rush to lvl 80 with any of my characters to accommodate those who are already there, and I find it stupid that people expect me to have read up on tactics on the Explorable Mode of dungeons and that I know every path there.
- This is why I play GW2 with a couple of friends. We play in our own pace and it is incredibly fun to do. There are a lot of things to do with your friends, and both Guild Wars 1 and 2 are all the more fun when playing together with others.

Take it slow and enjoy the ride. Rushing is not how any MMO was meant to be played, yet if you did you may experience how no MMO can accommodate to that (look at how easy WoW has become to accommodate this issue) since the incredible amount of new content that would have to be created is simply not possible for the dev team, especially if you are able to complete it all within a few days anyway.

Not to be rude, but your argument to the OP boils down to your playing the game wrong.

It just feels really polarized with those who play the game, there are us who didnt mind the gear grind and others who do. But what i dont gather is why we cant have your cake and eat it to. Fractals are the best example and the model should be expanded upon in where there are multiple levels and vertical gear progression is within the dungeon. It allows everyone to experience it and enjoy and allow people to advance and reach challenging content (something we are lacking)

Sovta.4719:

Yea, Asian MMOs are really loosing money, that’s why NCSoft bought Arenanet.

NCSoft acquired Anet in 2002.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arenanet

Actually, asian MMOs have been on the rise for a few years already. They started in asia, and then they went global. Basically, they’re profitable enough for Asia to keep developing them. Western gamers usually don’t like them, but they’re not losing money in a sense that they’ll go out of business.

Anyways, I was pointing out that dailies are good here because it time gates things instead of using grind to control the rate at which content is played though.

disregard this post.

kenshinakh.3672:

Snip

How many hours per day/week do you play? While I don’t doubt you believe yourself casual, I think you are probably between hardcore and casual, like me. Doing 33+ runs in 10 days for a single dungeon, especially when a single run can take an hour on some of them, is well above casual. I’m not a casual by any means either, I don’t believe I’ve ever made that claim, what I’m saying is people need to look at it from the casual point of view. A gear grind is going to keep the closer to hardcore players playing but it will give more casual players the mentality of “Well I’m never going to get it so I’ll just quit playing”, I’ve already seen that with my friends.

If you quit GW2 today you are stuck behind a laurel time gate, meaning there is no way to catch up as new ascended gear is being released. Unless of course ArenaNet finally releases new non-time gate ways to get ascended, but they said they would do that months ago and it still hasn’t really happened. The gate is anything but small too, I mean you’re looking at a minimum of 2-3 months(90 dailies+2 monthlies or 80 dailies+3 monthlies). That doesn’t sound too terrible until you realize that’s just for 1 spec on 1 character. Every system that ArenaNet has added to get ascended is time gated or out of reach of a portion of the player base(need a bigger guild). There is no reason to think that any new way they make ascended available won’t be time gated as well because that was the horribly devised plan behind ascended gear. What people want is ways to obtain it through regular non-time gated means like dungeon tokens, karma, crafting, badges of honor, etc.

You’re also misunderstanding what the gear in GW2 was supposed to be about. GW2 was sold on the basis of easy to obtain max stat gear and hard to obtain skins. I absolutely want max stat gear easily obtainable so casuals and anyone else can have all the different specs they like as that is supported by the overall combat design. What needs to happen is more awesome skins that are hard to obtain, people won’t feel like they are sub par if they don’t go for them but if they want to look cool they will.

We are all different people.

The problem with mmo’s is that everyone has a different perspective on what feels like an accomplishment and what doesn’t. I’m a casual player with one main, a few alts and like to take my time. If I happen to hit the wrong key while fighting, or I dodge a few seconds to late so be it; I’m not gonna lose sleep over it. Others however find it a cakewalk if they arn’t being forced into dodging whenever they have the endurance to do so and using a strict rotation to keep up the best dps they can. It is to the former open world was designed with explorable dungeons and FoTM coming in tougher but still doable once you are familiar with the design.

There really is no end game in the conventional sense, save what YOU the player make it, and as such the true hardcore players feel let down as there is no challenge for them. Although I have empathy for these players I have seem many similar games that cater to them but very few that try to keep the casuals happy. So please don’t make this game about your challenge, some of us just like to enjoy the smell of the flowers without having to avoid the bulldozers.

Just my 2c on the legendary discussion the OP posted.

You mention that these weapons should be hard to obtain, and I quote

Sokar Rostau.7316:

Legendaries are meant to be hard to get. They are meant to be uncommon and are out of reach of most people by design. If you want one you have to work for it, and you have to work hard over a long period of time. That’s why they are called “Legendary” rather than “Common as Muck”.

There is nothing “hard” about stricking lucky when getting the precursor. Half, if not most, of the legendary journey is based on RNG/DR. The “design” is flawed and the only way to work hard is constantly sit on the jack-potty and wait to hit the precursor jackpot, or pray to Dwayna (or which ever GW2 god) that it will drop one for you.

Indeed acquiring a legendary is about putting in the hard work, but, not the kind of work that makes it special.

Oh and then there is the fact you can sell them on the TP…nice ‘sink’ ANet.

I’m off……..

/FF

Distaste.4801:

Snip.

This past week, around 1 hour due to other business needing attending. Past weeks are usually 7-8 hours average, about 1 hr/weekday and a few on weekends. I don’t actually do 33 runs in 10 days though. At most, I do 1-2 runs a day, so maybe 20 runs in 10 days. To this day, I’ve never gotten a full set from a dungeon, except for AC because I had excess tokens that built up over months. I’d like to think that I shift between casual, and casually hardcore depending on my time. In terms of “hardcore” skills, I do consider myself decently good at the games I choose to play, but I also don’t actually play a lot. So consider me “hardcore at heart but casual with time” .. if that makes any sense at all lol.

I really don’t think people quit just because of this percieved end-game grind. It’s probably the whole game overall to them, and various factors. For casuals, you can get to 80 and get decent gear in a relatively relaxing way. Getting exotics, 15 or so days with casual play (less than 30 mins per day, or combine a day for a dungeon) + use your karma for parts + use your gold and a bit of crafting. Is that long? Maybe, but I’ve been a time-restricted player for so long now, and I’m the slowest to gear out of all my friends. I know things take longer, and I don’t expect to just simply get near end-game gear in less than a week. It actually took me a month on my first character :P. 1 month wasn’t bad though. I enjoyed the game during that time, and didn’t grind for anything due to how lax I was.

Yes, you’ll be stuck behind a laurel time gate, but you should know that everyone went through the same thing as you. Why shouldn’t you take the same amount of time they did to get it? It’s not like ascended gear is only behind laurels though. When it first came out, it was only in FOTM. Then we get laurels, which offers ascended rings and necklaces, adding an additional way to obtain rings. What’s to say they won’t add another way to get ascended necklaces? It’s just a time gate for a while, and later, more ways to get those items come out as they’ve been. That’s why I’m not worry if I stop gaming for a while, and I know that ascended stats aren’t going to make my exotics suddenly outdated. Of course, if I do stop, and don’t come back until 2 years later… well, by that time I think you should be “outdated” and need to gear up. Two years is a long time (how can you expect not to)? Anyways, I just recently gotten my ascended piece, and it’s been nearly 4 months since ascended were released right? Technically, I could have gotten it earlier, but I chose not to because I didn’t want to skip content and wanted to play through at my own pace. And so I did. Doing great in WvW too in fact lol.

About the gear misunderstanding, I never came to GW2 with the idea that there will be absolutely no vertical progression. I actually felt like they’re mixing horizontal and vertical, and that gear progression will still be there, but it’ll be a lot slower than other MMOs I’ve been to. Could you point out where exactly they wanted to sell the game on that basis? I always had the impression that they were selling the game on how amazing the world and overall content was, not a single game design such as gear.

I totally agree with you on having more skins though. That’d be nice.