Guild Wars 2

I’m sure my tone on this post is going to come across as a bit irritated but for the life of me I can’t fathom why the devs would make long drawn out chapters in stories with many sections and not give players save points at those sections.

There are many reasons why a player would need to drop out of the game for various reasons; let’s saying family issues, sleep, work, power outages, etc. The reason isn’t important as life happens. Of course dropping out of a long drawn out chapter in Guild Wars 2 HoT will force the player to have to redo the entire chapter again rather than picking up where they left off.

I wonder if the devs were inspired by the report of someone who has a game console that they had powered up for decades because they didn’t want to loose their place. I wonder if in a dev meeting someone said it would be funny to step the players back to the ’80s and make the players repeat as much of a long drawn out storyline as they could possibly get away with.

Not everyone has the time, stamina or general wherewithal to complete an entire chapter at one sitting. It would be nice if someone at ANet would step up and fix this (hopefully just a) oversight and allow players to complete sections and pick up where they left off. They could do this in the story panel or as symbolic save tokens in the inventory.

Are they that long? I don’t recall any Episodes being overly long; maybe the last one, but mainly because it’s a bit more difficult or often bugged? Of course, it’s been several months since I’ve played most of them.

Maybe it’s difficult to put ‘save’ places in the Episodes, maybe not; I really have no idea.

What stories missions do you feel are too long. IMO the length isn’t too bad with most ranging from 10 to maybe 20 minutes.

I guess the title refers to how you basically had to start over again and again and… just to make it a little bit further every time in the game in the 80s (games that eventually no one would finish). It’s the feeling I have when I play some GW2 content (and I kinda enjoy it – nostalgia…), namely: SAB, adventures, some PS master achievements, and some JP, but the base story missions ain’t one of them.

What makes you say they take too long? Do you fail way too often and have to start over? What makes you fail?

simplesimon.2084:

What stories missions do you feel are too long. IMO the length isn’t too bad with most ranging from 10 to maybe 20 minutes.

The final chapter of HoT is fairly long. Once you are at the Enter the chasm you have to finish it out. Length of the story depends on players skills, character builds and weapons. Not everyone is capable of rushing through a story in a short time. Everyone is different. I don’t consider myself a great player but decent enough. I did the story to take out Zhaitan alone. When I got to the defeat Mordremoth end stage I had to break out of the game. That really needs a marker to restore the player to that point because the sections previous to it are somewhat lengthy. Of course the location isn’t really important because as I previously mentioned not everyone has the same abilities. I’m better than some, worse than others. I know people who play the game but getting to that are would be daunting at best. If ANet wants people to play the stories they need to accommodate players who can’t do it all at once or even at the same skill level. I’m sure there are plenty of older players or even disabled players who would have problems at completing any of the chapters at one go. Section saves are needed.

You where incredibly vague in you OP and not very much clearer on the second post. I do believe the final story could be tagged just before the fight with Mordy. There is a lot of territory in that final and due to issues with bugs (not sure if fixed), unusual mechanics and just plain not knowing what to do you can get frustrated more than you should by winding up at the very beginning instead of at Mordy.

I think a reconnect feature may work better than a save point. I’ve gotten disconnected multiple times trying to finish the final chapter in the PS, the Arah story mode while solo. And even if I don’t disconnect, that takes a minimum of an hour to finish. Disconnecting five minutes from the end is a real morale killer.

What games did you play in the 80’s with save points? At best we got save codes. When you started a game back then, you where in it till you finished it, or ran out of lives.

Yargesh.4965:

You where incredibly vague in you OP and not very much clearer on the second post. I do believe the final story could be tagged just before the fight with Mordy. There is a lot of territory in that final and due to issues with bugs (not sure if fixed), unusual mechanics and just plain not knowing what to do you can get frustrated more than you should by winding up at the very beginning instead of at Mordy.

I think you are running into a bug?

There is a checkpoint before the Mordremoth fight. I know this because on my first character the updraft gliding thing wasn’t working so it took around 5 tries to figure out a way to get around that.

BrotherBelial.3094:

What games did you play in the 80’s with save points? At best we got save codes. When you started a game back then, you where in it till you finished it, or ran out of lives.

I played Final Fantasy 1 and Phantasy Star 1 on Wii Virtual Console and those have saves. They’re too hard even with them though in FF1 the wizards keep killing me while in Phantasy Star the sea monsters near the eastern cave at the beginning literally one shot me. I’d hate to see how Street Fighter 1 was if even the RPGs are like that.

I completely disagree. There are only three long instances in the personal story and even these aren’t that long (and they would be shorter if more of the cutscenes/dialogue could be skipped or fast-forwarded).

I’m not opposed to the concept. I think, however, it’s a waste of dev resources to figure out a way to save progress. If it turns out to be important, it would fit this game better to split up the longer story instances.

Agemnon.4608:

BrotherBelial.3094:

What games did you play in the 80’s with save points? At best we got save codes. When you started a game back then, you where in it till you finished it, or ran out of lives.

I played Final Fantasy 1 and Phantasy Star 1 on Wii Virtual Console and those have saves. They’re too hard even with them though in FF1 the wizards keep killing me while in Phantasy Star the sea monsters near the eastern cave at the beginning literally one shot me. I’d hate to see how Street Fighter 1 was if even the RPGs are like that.

Console cartridges were mostly read-only: there was no save (but there were cheat / save codes sometimes as Agemnon said). There were a few exception though: some games, including FF1, were shipped with a battery integrated to the cartridge that allowed game saves (pretty much like your BIOS saves data). However, it was more the exception than the rule, and most of us who were born in the late 70s / early 80s can’t even remember them.

I agree that it’s a long fight and it’s frustrating if you have to start over for some reason. But I don’t think it should be changed. Fighting Moredremoth is the climax of the entire storyline (in general gaming terms he’s the final boss). If it was quick and easy it would be extremely anti-climatic.

I understand it’s frustrating, I had to wait about 4 days after I got to that chapter before I could arrange uninterrupted time to play it (but when I did the practice I got from earlier attempts came in useful), but to me that helps make it feel special. But at the same time I don’t think it’s so extreme that most people would never be able to make time for it.

The only long story instances were the last one in VB, Rata Novus, and the final story instance. The entire HoT story line can be completed within 4 hours on any class.

That said, most games of the 80’s did not have the ability to allow the player to save whenever they wanted.

Sir Mad.1092:

Agemnon.4608:

BrotherBelial.3094:

What games did you play in the 80’s with save points? At best we got save codes. When you started a game back then, you where in it till you finished it, or ran out of lives.

I played Final Fantasy 1 and Phantasy Star 1 on Wii Virtual Console and those have saves. They’re too hard even with them though in FF1 the wizards keep killing me while in Phantasy Star the sea monsters near the eastern cave at the beginning literally one shot me. I’d hate to see how Street Fighter 1 was if even the RPGs are like that.

Console cartridges were mostly read-only: there was no save (but there were cheat / save codes sometimes as Agemnon said). There were a few exception though: some games, including FF1, were shipped with a battery integrated to the cartridge that allowed game saves (pretty much like your BIOS saves data). However, it was more the exception than the rule, and most of us who were born in the late 70s / early 80s can’t even remember them.

The only game I remember playing with save codes was Punch out on the NES. Did Alex the Kid in Miracle World on the Master System 1/2 have them as well? Or am I remembering it wrong.

Most of the games I played didn’t have save codes. The good old days for trying to finish Alterbeast, Golden Axe Streets of Rage before you ran out of lives and continues….. No that was when games took skill.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Sir Mad.1092:

Agemnon.4608:

BrotherBelial.3094:

What games did you play in the 80’s with save points? At best we got save codes. When you started a game back then, you where in it till you finished it, or ran out of lives.

I played Final Fantasy 1 and Phantasy Star 1 on Wii Virtual Console and those have saves. They’re too hard even with them though in FF1 the wizards keep killing me while in Phantasy Star the sea monsters near the eastern cave at the beginning literally one shot me. I’d hate to see how Street Fighter 1 was if even the RPGs are like that.

Console cartridges were mostly read-only: there was no save (but there were cheat / save codes sometimes as Agemnon said). There were a few exception though: some games, including FF1, were shipped with a battery integrated to the cartridge that allowed game saves (pretty much like your BIOS saves data). However, it was more the exception than the rule, and most of us who were born in the late 70s / early 80s can’t even remember them.

The only game I remember playing with save codes was Punch out on the NES. Did Alex the Kid in Miracle World on the Master System 1/2 have them as well? Or am I remembering it wrong.

Most of the games I played didn’t have save codes. The good old days for trying to finish Alterbeast, Golden Axe Streets of Rage before you ran out of lives and continues….. No that was when games took skill.

Mega Man X series had codes.

Anyway, back to the main topic…

I think the best way would to allow cutscenes to be skipped after the first complete play through. For most of them, there’s really no need for the cutscene to play out. Look at the Molten Boss fractal. After the cutscene, they spawn a few seconds later so what was the purpose of sitting through it?

I think non-skippable cutscenes are just to stall things until game elements get set into place.

Agemnon.4608:

I think non-skippable cutscenes are just to stall things until game elements get set into place.

Some are (as confirmed by developers); some aren’t.

“No Retreat” and “Hearts and Minds” are the major offenders, IMO. They are too large, too buggy and extremely anoying to be doing them so many times (For the achievements). Just let people try the last combat again, instead of kicking them to the very beggining every time. It is too much.

Ayrilana.1396:

The only long story instances were the last one in VB, Rata Novus, and the final story instance. The entire HoT story line can be completed within 4 hours on any class.

This is really subject to a lot of factors. Not all players have perfect dexterity. Even skilled players have problems with some things but not others. Everyone is different I personally wouldn’t assume that every player can do it in the same amount of time. Some might fly thru it in 3 hours others might take 16.

For myself I sometimes fly thru things others find difficult but some things for me are difficult that others fly thru.

Tekoneiric.6817:

Ayrilana.1396:

The only long story instances were the last one in VB, Rata Novus, and the final story instance. The entire HoT story line can be completed within 4 hours on any class.

This is really subject to a lot of factors. Not all players have perfect dexterity. Even skilled players have problems with some things but not others. Everyone is different I personally wouldn’t assume that every player can do it in the same amount of time. Some might fly thru it in 3 hours others might take 16.

For myself I sometimes fly thru things others find difficult but some things for me are difficult that others fly thru.

Players can take as much time to do a given story instance. I can take 4 hours to do the last one if I really wanted to. That doesn’t mean it necessitates to have some save points so that players can leave and then hop right back to where they left off. We didn’t have this in GW1 and havent so far.

The best way, imo, is to remove what actually slows people down in additional play throughs: cutscenes. That and dialogue. This would have made the Rata Novus mission a lot quicker as half the time is spent in cutscenes/dialogue.

jciardha.1936:

I think a reconnect feature may work better than a save point. I’ve gotten disconnected multiple times trying to finish the final chapter in the PS, the Arah story mode while solo. And even if I don’t disconnect, that takes a minimum of an hour to finish. Disconnecting five minutes from the end is a real morale killer.

This happened to me last week, I was on the final fight of the last part of the personal story, and I got disconnected because my internet went down. Had to replay the entire thing, which took close to an hour. Needless to say I was very irritated.

I am really surprised that they don’t have checkpoints or some other way to resume progress if you disconnect in the middle. Things happen, and no one likes to have to replay content.

And then there’s that moment when the thing bugs out and you just have to do everything over again.

Generally the only point i had a problem with was the egg running achievements, where, if you get hit, you have to repeat all the running and battles before it.

Astralporing.1957:

Generally the only point i had a problem with was the egg running achievements, where, if you get hit, you have to repeat all the running and battles before it.

Eh, I did that one a few days ago (last achievements I needed besides Migraine), and yes, indeed, those dialogues between the 2 fights and the run are way too long when you replay it several times for the achievement. They’re fine the first time though. There should be a retry mote or something before the run…

That being said, those achievements are not that hard. The only nightmarish achievement with no retry mote is Caithe’s LS2 episode in SW IMHO. But again, we’re talking about master achievements here, and they’re supposed to take time and to be challenging. I don’t see that being an issue with the regular version of the missions (even though I would also welcome some sort of resume option after a disconnection).