Guild Wars 2

Instead of releasing outfits, give us full armour set skins instead, like the way things were at launch with the Phalanx and Krytan armour sets etc. This might not seem like an issue, but the entire end game of GW2 is centred around cool looking skins. Being able to mix and match different armour set pieces is half the fun, and lets people get creative with their own unique looks. If the reason is clipping, it’s honestly not that big an issue. I’d rather have my own unique look that has slight clipping issues, than being forced to have the same boring look as everyone else.

No matter how good a released outfit, I always find at least ONE part I don’t like that prevents me from purchasing it. This wouldn’t be a problem if I wasn’t forced to go all or nothing. The wardrobe system was a brilliant implementation, however it’s potential is wasted through the mass production of sub-perfect outfits.

My thief has been wearing the same T3 Human coat for years. Make sets instead of outfits, please!

Or give me a REALLY good reason as to why that’s impossible.

Nitron.6405:

Instead of releasing outfits, give us full armour set skins instead, like the way things were at launch with the Phalanx and Krytan armour sets etc. This might not seem like an issue, but the entire end game of GW2 is centred around cool looking skins. Being able to mix and match different armour set pieces is half the fun, and lets people get creative with their own unique looks. If the reason is clipping, it’s honestly not that big an issue. I’d rather have my own unique look that has slight clipping issues, than being forced to have the same boring look as everyone else.

No matter how good a released outfit, I always find at least ONE part I don’t like that prevents me from purchasing it. This wouldn’t be a problem if I wasn’t forced to go all or nothing. The wardrobe system was a brilliant implementation, however it’s potential is wasted through the mass production of sub-perfect outfits.

My thief has been wearing the same T3 Human coat for years. Make sets instead of outfits, please!

Or give me a REALLY good reason as to why that’s impossible.

Here is your answer from Anet and the source:

Armor sets are by far the most expensive reward we can make. A full set includes heavy, medium, light, times five races, times two sexes, so it’s like developing 30 sets. It takes nine months to develop. (That’s for a normal armor set — legendary is much longer.) It’s not something we can do for Living World episodes. Individual pieces are good rewards for Living World episodes; full sets are more something for expansion packs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4uqx15/out_of_the_shadows_devs_here_ask_us_anything/d5s52tj

Whoever stated that should have left out the races and sexes since those are the same for outfits. What really makes the difference is Light / Medium / Heavy and then each individual piece has to be tailored to be used with other armor besides that set.

I don’t like it either. I would at least like them to change the ratio to less outfits and more armor. But no more trenchcoats :P

I agree with OP, but as Djinn said, it will never happen. It’s sad because mix-n-matching armor pieces is one of my favorite things to do in this game. I bought 1 Outfit for low lvl alts who don’t have mix-n-match’d stuff and that’s about it. I won’t buy more because they are boring, uncreative and noobish.

They made a decision back during development to have 5 races and to have different meshes for each armor weight so that they conflict, as well as having nonmatching dye channels. Those decisions led to armor that is expensive to produce and non compatible across weights armors. Unless they revamp every armor in the game or start completely over it’s going to be full armor sets for expansions only and outfits in the gemstore.

Title

Stop Making Outfits

No.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Unless they revamp every armor in the game or start completely over it’s going to be full armor sets for expansions only and outfits in the gemstore.

Players don’t want compromise, only results.

I’m actually perfectly happy with outfits because they look good. They can be improved to add a few more custom options but it helps they are also much more time friendly to create. I think GW2 would have been much greater if they focused on ONLY outfits with options like backpieces, helms and auras being the custom options and adding more race options.

While I like mix-and-match armor, GW2 doesn’t do well in making a stark variety of pieces to mix. That is, each piece isn’t distinct enough to warrant their existance. Some gloves just look too similar to other gloves, some pants too similar to other pants, etc. To be truly effective, you need to create pieces that rely on their own aesthetic merit, not “need to make 6 pieces to complete a set”. It’s even worse when you consider that there are 3 weights. Light armor doesn’t need “shoulder” gear, for example.

Players don’t want compromise, only results.

Players can want what they want. However the results are what we have as it’s most unlikely that ANet will redo the armor or stop making outfits.

Edit: in addition all these no outfit posts are always either/or. They assume if ANet stops making outfits there will be more armor. But the outfit team is not necessarily the armor team. In fact, since armor is one of the most expensive and time consuming items they make it’s very likely to be different people. Removing outfits then won’t increase armor and in fact the loss of sales would mean less money for things such as armor.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Players don’t want compromise, only results.

Players can want what they want. However the results are what we have as it’s most unlikely that ANet will redo the armor or stop making outfits.

Edit: in addition all these no outfit posts are always either/or. They assume if ANet stops making outfits there will be more armor. But the outfit team is not necessarily the armor team. In fact, since armor is one of the most expensive and time consuming items they make it’s very likely to be different people. Removing outfits then won’t increase armor and in fact the loss of sales would mean less money for things such as armor.

Thank you. Finally someone who puts some thought into how outfits fit into arenanets process.

Less revenue/profit for arenanet net means less developement in every area. One of the downsides of having a no subscription game.

Personally I love outfits. I buy the ones I like, don’t care about the ones I don’t like and get to cycle different outfits for my less played toons making them seem fresh and shiny.

Djinn.9245:

Nitron.6405:

Instead of releasing outfits, give us full armour set skins instead, like the way things were at launch with the Phalanx and Krytan armour sets etc. This might not seem like an issue, but the entire end game of GW2 is centred around cool looking skins. Being able to mix and match different armour set pieces is half the fun, and lets people get creative with their own unique looks. If the reason is clipping, it’s honestly not that big an issue. I’d rather have my own unique look that has slight clipping issues, than being forced to have the same boring look as everyone else.

No matter how good a released outfit, I always find at least ONE part I don’t like that prevents me from purchasing it. This wouldn’t be a problem if I wasn’t forced to go all or nothing. The wardrobe system was a brilliant implementation, however it’s potential is wasted through the mass production of sub-perfect outfits.

My thief has been wearing the same T3 Human coat for years. Make sets instead of outfits, please!

Or give me a REALLY good reason as to why that’s impossible.

Here is your answer from Anet and the source:

Armor sets are by far the most expensive reward we can make. A full set includes heavy, medium, light, times five races, times two sexes, so it’s like developing 30 sets. It takes nine months to develop. (That’s for a normal armor set — legendary is much longer.) It’s not something we can do for Living World episodes. Individual pieces are good rewards for Living World episodes; full sets are more something for expansion packs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4uqx15/out_of_the_shadows_devs_here_ask_us_anything/d5s52tj

Whoever stated that should have left out the races and sexes since those are the same for outfits. What really makes the difference is Light / Medium / Heavy and then each individual piece has to be tailored to be used with other armor besides that set.

I don’t like it either. I would at least like them to change the ratio to less outfits and more armor. But no more trenchcoats :P

meanwhile s2 had a full set of weapons and armor…

zealex.9410:

Djinn.9245:

Nitron.6405:

Instead of releasing outfits, give us full armour set skins instead, like the way things were at launch with the Phalanx and Krytan armour sets etc. This might not seem like an issue, but the entire end game of GW2 is centred around cool looking skins. Being able to mix and match different armour set pieces is half the fun, and lets people get creative with their own unique looks. If the reason is clipping, it’s honestly not that big an issue. I’d rather have my own unique look that has slight clipping issues, than being forced to have the same boring look as everyone else.

No matter how good a released outfit, I always find at least ONE part I don’t like that prevents me from purchasing it. This wouldn’t be a problem if I wasn’t forced to go all or nothing. The wardrobe system was a brilliant implementation, however it’s potential is wasted through the mass production of sub-perfect outfits.

My thief has been wearing the same T3 Human coat for years. Make sets instead of outfits, please!

Or give me a REALLY good reason as to why that’s impossible.

Here is your answer from Anet and the source:

Armor sets are by far the most expensive reward we can make. A full set includes heavy, medium, light, times five races, times two sexes, so it’s like developing 30 sets. It takes nine months to develop. (That’s for a normal armor set — legendary is much longer.) It’s not something we can do for Living World episodes. Individual pieces are good rewards for Living World episodes; full sets are more something for expansion packs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4uqx15/out_of_the_shadows_devs_here_ask_us_anything/d5s52tj

Whoever stated that should have left out the races and sexes since those are the same for outfits. What really makes the difference is Light / Medium / Heavy and then each individual piece has to be tailored to be used with other armor besides that set.

I don’t like it either. I would at least like them to change the ratio to less outfits and more armor. But no more trenchcoats :P

meanwhile s2 had a full set of weapons and armor…

Seasons no doubt have more resources allocated. Because that’s really what it’s about. Anet is probably correct that it takes a long time to make armor, but if that was true across the board… well I dont think GW2 was in development for 30 years to make the 5000+ armor pieces in it.

Tbh I’d rather have them focus more on balance fixes (WvW still being completely ignored) and basic playable content over outfits or armor/weapon components.

Dawdler.8521:

zealex.9410:

Djinn.9245:

Nitron.6405:

Instead of releasing outfits, give us full armour set skins instead, like the way things were at launch with the Phalanx and Krytan armour sets etc. This might not seem like an issue, but the entire end game of GW2 is centred around cool looking skins. Being able to mix and match different armour set pieces is half the fun, and lets people get creative with their own unique looks. If the reason is clipping, it’s honestly not that big an issue. I’d rather have my own unique look that has slight clipping issues, than being forced to have the same boring look as everyone else.

No matter how good a released outfit, I always find at least ONE part I don’t like that prevents me from purchasing it. This wouldn’t be a problem if I wasn’t forced to go all or nothing. The wardrobe system was a brilliant implementation, however it’s potential is wasted through the mass production of sub-perfect outfits.

My thief has been wearing the same T3 Human coat for years. Make sets instead of outfits, please!

Or give me a REALLY good reason as to why that’s impossible.

Here is your answer from Anet and the source:

Armor sets are by far the most expensive reward we can make. A full set includes heavy, medium, light, times five races, times two sexes, so it’s like developing 30 sets. It takes nine months to develop. (That’s for a normal armor set — legendary is much longer.) It’s not something we can do for Living World episodes. Individual pieces are good rewards for Living World episodes; full sets are more something for expansion packs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4uqx15/out_of_the_shadows_devs_here_ask_us_anything/d5s52tj

Whoever stated that should have left out the races and sexes since those are the same for outfits. What really makes the difference is Light / Medium / Heavy and then each individual piece has to be tailored to be used with other armor besides that set.

I don’t like it either. I would at least like them to change the ratio to less outfits and more armor. But no more trenchcoats :P

meanwhile s2 had a full set of weapons and armor…

Seasons no doubt have more resources allocated. Because that’s really what it’s about. Anet is probably correct that it takes a long time to make armor, but if that was true across the board… well I dont think GW2 was in development for 30 years to make the 5000+ armor pieces in it.

Tbh I’d rather have them focus more on balance fixes (WvW still being completely ignored) and basic playable content over outfits or armor/weapon components.

well I dont think GW2 was in development for 30 years to make the 5000+ armor pieces in it.

From what I read right after launch, during the years they were working on the game they hired a lot of temporary people. The temps were let go after launch when their jobs were done. That would explain why they were able to make the armor that was available at launch.

The answer from Anet on that topic makes no sense:
What is to do for an outfit?
- adjust it for every race

What is to do if you make the same outfit just as six different armor pieces?
-adjust it for every race

SAME exact amount of work required!

They always tell us that they somehow need to adjust the split outfit to light, medium, heavy armor type. That makes no sense! Your outfit doesn’t do that either!

An elementalist can wear a super heavy looking balthasar outfit, a warrior can wear a wedding dress in battle. That argument that we need to adjust outfits, when they are converted into single armor pieces to the different armor types makes absolute no sense at all.

It’s a strange and very lame excuse and I don’t know why they refuse doing it, considering it’s the single most thing fashionwars players (probably the people that buy the most gems) want.

Anet could make so much money….

Leo G.4501:

Title

Stop Making Outfits

No.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Unless they revamp every armor in the game or start completely over it’s going to be full armor sets for expansions only and outfits in the gemstore.

Players don’t want compromise, only results.

I’m actually perfectly happy with outfits because they look good. They can be improved to add a few more custom options but it helps they are also much more time friendly to create. I think GW2 would have been much greater if they focused on ONLY outfits with options like backpieces, helms and auras being the custom options and adding more race options.

While I like mix-and-match armor, GW2 doesn’t do well in making a stark variety of pieces to mix. That is, each piece isn’t distinct enough to warrant their existance. Some gloves just look too similar to other gloves, some pants too similar to other pants, etc. To be truly effective, you need to create pieces that rely on their own aesthetic merit, not “need to make 6 pieces to complete a set”. It’s even worse when you consider that there are 3 weights. Light armor doesn’t need “shoulder” gear, for example.

Looking like every next character kills the game and the creativity it’s been partially based on. They might as well remove the wardrobe system, cultural armors and gender-based armors and all others.

If you’d rather look 50-100% like the next human or charr, then the game just depreciated that much in diversity. Customization and diversity is what drives creativity and is one of the things that draws new and old players.

And Anet’s statement that it took 9 months(?) to make all the armors at launch, I highly doubt that. It sounds much more sensible that they hired a lot of temp workers just for the creation of armors, then just dumped them shortly after. So there went a lot that potential +money, now everyone who’s tired of outfits or prefers mix and match is left with no new options.

I wonder why they say 9 months
I mean.. it can’t be that long can it?

Adenin.5973:

The answer from Anet on that topic makes no sense:
What is to do for an outfit?
- adjust it for every race

What is to do if you make the same outfit just as six different armor pieces?
-adjust it for every race

SAME exact amount of work required!

They always tell us that they somehow need to adjust the split outfit to light, medium, heavy armor type. That makes no sense! Your outfit doesn’t do that either!

An elementalist can wear a super heavy looking balthasar outfit, a warrior can wear a wedding dress in battle. That argument that we need to adjust outfits, when they are converted into single armor pieces to the different armor types makes absolute no sense at all.

It’s a strange and very lame excuse and I don’t know why they refuse doing it, considering it’s the single most thing fashionwars players (probably the people that buy the most gems) want.

Anet could make so much money….

Well if they did this then you could only mix and match the new gemstore outfit armor pieces with other new outfit gemstore armor pieces coming out in the future.

The reason for that is all the armor pieces we have up till they make this change dont share common attachment points on heavy medium and light.

So if people are happy with starting over on skin collection I bet anet could do just that.

But sadly I dont think the playerbase would agree to that.

Linken.6345:

Well if they did this then you could only mix and match the new gemstore outfit armor pieces with other new outfit gemstore armor pieces coming out in the future.

The reason for that is all the armor pieces we have up till they make this change dont share common attachment points on heavy medium and light.

So if people are happy with starting over on skin collection I bet anet could do just that.

But sadly I dont think the playerbase would agree to that.

So you are telling me that it is impossible and/or way too time consuming to take the 3d model of an already existing outfit, cut it into 6 pieces and use the already existing standard tools and procedures they used to create all the other armors in the game?
Really?

Adenin.5973:

Linken.6345:

Well if they did this then you could only mix and match the new gemstore outfit armor pieces with other new outfit gemstore armor pieces coming out in the future.

The reason for that is all the armor pieces we have up till they make this change dont share common attachment points on heavy medium and light.

So if people are happy with starting over on skin collection I bet anet could do just that.

But sadly I dont think the playerbase would agree to that.

So you are telling me that it is impossible and/or way too time consuming to take the 3d model of an already existing outfit, cut it into 6 pieces and use the already existing standard tools and procedures they used to create all the other armors in the game?
Really?

Yes it seems it is or dont you think anet would have done it by now if it wasent?

Linken.6345:

Yes it seems it is or dont you think anet would have done it by now if it wasent?

Okay, I can live with that answer. You actually don’t know it, you assume that Anet acts reasonably and answered honestly, it’s therefore not possible.

I don’t assume that the answer we were given was honest. The outfits have to be created in a 3d model tool. There is literally no reason why they can’t take that data and make a normal armor set out of it. Like they did with every other armor in the game.

- Clipping is no excuse.
- Attachment problems make no sense.
- ‘Distinguishable -Armor -Type’ argument is at this point in time no more valid
- Too time consuming, can’t be an excuse when 80-90% of the work is already done

What is the reason? I already said I don’t know it.

Leo G.4501:

Title

Stop Making Outfits

No.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Unless they revamp every armor in the game or start completely over it’s going to be full armor sets for expansions only and outfits in the gemstore.

Players don’t want compromise, only results.

I’m actually perfectly happy with outfits because they look good. They can be improved to add a few more custom options but it helps they are also much more time friendly to create. I think GW2 would have been much greater if they focused on ONLY outfits with options like backpieces, helms and auras being the custom options and adding more race options.

While I like mix-and-match armor, GW2 doesn’t do well in making a stark variety of pieces to mix. That is, each piece isn’t distinct enough to warrant their existance. Some gloves just look too similar to other gloves, some pants too similar to other pants, etc. To be truly effective, you need to create pieces that rely on their own aesthetic merit, not “need to make 6 pieces to complete a set”. It’s even worse when you consider that there are 3 weights. Light armor doesn’t need “shoulder” gear, for example.

Completely disagree, hate this idea. /not signed

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Players don’t want compromise, only results.

Players can want what they want. However the results are what we have as it’s most unlikely that ANet will redo the armor or stop making outfits.

Edit: in addition all these no outfit posts are always either/or. They assume if ANet stops making outfits there will be more armor. But the outfit team is not necessarily the armor team. In fact, since armor is one of the most expensive and time consuming items they make it’s very likely to be different people. Removing outfits then won’t increase armor and in fact the loss of sales would mean less money for things such as armor.

While you might be right, making any type of clothing for characters is just as likely to all be done by the same people. Hard to say.

That said, if they stopped making Outfits altogether so they could make more armor, and you are correct, those devs would likely be moved to making armor…

And while all this is currently hypothetical, Anet has changed major policies in the past. They decided not to make the rest of the HoT Legendaries and then changed their mind again. We can keep hoping for more armor.

zealex.9410:

Djinn.9245:

Nitron.6405:

Instead of releasing outfits, give us full armour set skins instead, like the way things were at launch with the Phalanx and Krytan armour sets etc. This might not seem like an issue, but the entire end game of GW2 is centred around cool looking skins. Being able to mix and match different armour set pieces is half the fun, and lets people get creative with their own unique looks. If the reason is clipping, it’s honestly not that big an issue. I’d rather have my own unique look that has slight clipping issues, than being forced to have the same boring look as everyone else.

No matter how good a released outfit, I always find at least ONE part I don’t like that prevents me from purchasing it. This wouldn’t be a problem if I wasn’t forced to go all or nothing. The wardrobe system was a brilliant implementation, however it’s potential is wasted through the mass production of sub-perfect outfits.

My thief has been wearing the same T3 Human coat for years. Make sets instead of outfits, please!

Or give me a REALLY good reason as to why that’s impossible.

Here is your answer from Anet and the source:

Armor sets are by far the most expensive reward we can make. A full set includes heavy, medium, light, times five races, times two sexes, so it’s like developing 30 sets. It takes nine months to develop. (That’s for a normal armor set — legendary is much longer.) It’s not something we can do for Living World episodes. Individual pieces are good rewards for Living World episodes; full sets are more something for expansion packs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4uqx15/out_of_the_shadows_devs_here_ask_us_anything/d5s52tj

Whoever stated that should have left out the races and sexes since those are the same for outfits. What really makes the difference is Light / Medium / Heavy and then each individual piece has to be tailored to be used with other armor besides that set.

I don’t like it either. I would at least like them to change the ratio to less outfits and more armor. But no more trenchcoats :P

meanwhile s2 had a full set of weapons and armor…

Living World season 2 was July 2014. This answer was in 2016.

Adenin.5973:

The answer from Anet on that topic makes no sense:
What is to do for an outfit?
- adjust it for every race

What is to do if you make the same outfit just as six different armor pieces?
-adjust it for every race

SAME exact amount of work required!

They always tell us that they somehow need to adjust the split outfit to light, medium, heavy armor type. That makes no sense! Your outfit doesn’t do that either!

They are talking about the way the develop Outfits and Armor now, not a hypothetical way that you think they could do it. There is also the work on each individual piece for each weight, sex, and race.

Linken.6345:

Adenin.5973:

Linken.6345:

Well if they did this then you could only mix and match the new gemstore outfit armor pieces with other new outfit gemstore armor pieces coming out in the future.

The reason for that is all the armor pieces we have up till they make this change dont share common attachment points on heavy medium and light.

So if people are happy with starting over on skin collection I bet anet could do just that.

But sadly I dont think the playerbase would agree to that.

So you are telling me that it is impossible and/or way too time consuming to take the 3d model of an already existing outfit, cut it into 6 pieces and use the already existing standard tools and procedures they used to create all the other armors in the game?
Really?

Yes it seems it is or dont you think anet would have done it by now if it wasent?

Well, I sincerely doubt they would simply convert Outfits to armor. That would be even less profitable than making new armor and have the additional effect of upsetting players who already purchased the Outfits.

Djinn.9245:

They are talking about the way the develop Outfits and Armor now, not a hypothetical way that you think they could do it. There is also the work on each individual piece for each weight, sex, and race.

What is your point?

Tell me, do we not have at this point in time outfits that are completely modeled for:
- every race
- every gender
- every combination of gender and race

Yes or no?
Do you think that anet is the only company in the entire world that does not use a 3d model tool to create a 3d model?
Do you think the armors we already have in the game are not also created in a 3d model tool?

Do you want to tell me now why you are saying that we can’t start making the already existing 3d data of the already created outfits, that are already adjusted for each and every possible combination of gender and race and make armor out of it like anet has done it so many times before?

What is your point?

I might be one of the only person who enjoys outfits. I like having a second clothing option to what I’ve transmogged on the gear that the character is currently wearing. I don’t want to transmog constantly due to my whims. Buuuuuut I hate how so many of the outfits are similar and I totally get why people want more options between things. Yet it seems like it would be a lot of work on their part, they gotta cut corners somewhere I suppose? IDK

Djinn.9245:

Well, I sincerely doubt they would simply convert Outfits to armor. That would be even less profitable than making new armor and have the additional effect of upsetting players who already purchased the Outfits.

Why would it be less profitable?
Right now so many people don’t buy outfits,
-because they don’t want to look like exact copies of everyone else that bought the same outfit.
-because they love customizing they’re different armor pieces and are always looking for an improvement with a different piece. If you buy an outfight you can change color and you have to never pay attention to it again. The fashionwar just ended.

If you allow people to buy armor sets instead of outfits people will buy 4 complete sets just to get 4 different parts. This is way more money.

You can still sell the outfits, there is no need at all to remove them. Why should you.

Why are you people so needlessly resisting the idea of adding something amazing to this game? It’s like talking to people that have never overcome any problem in their live.
Do you think people at Anet are incompetent? They’ll figure it out. They have never mentioned a specific major problem or blocker that would prevent this thing from happening.

Adenin.5973:

Djinn.9245:

They are talking about the way the develop Outfits and Armor now, not a hypothetical way that you think they could do it. There is also the work on each individual piece for each weight, sex, and race.

What is your point?

My point is that Anet’s comment is about the way they currently make armor. You said:

Adenin.5973:

The answer from Anet on that topic makes no sense:
What is to do for an outfit?
- adjust it for every race

What is to do if you make the same outfit just as six different armor pieces?

You said their comment makes no sense. It makes perfect sense for the way they currently make armor. If they were to do what you suggest, that would be a different situation.

I also am not certain what you mean by “make the same outfit jsut as six different armor pieces”? Do you mean use the current outfits or change the way they make armor so they first make an outfit and then split it?

The first option would not be a good solution for reasons I already stated. The second option might not be any faster than making the pieces separately.

Unless we’ve actually created clothing for MMOs it’s hard to know exactly how to improve the process. I would think professionals would know more than people who have no idea how it’s done.

Adenin.5973:

Djinn.9245:

Well, I sincerely doubt they would simply convert Outfits to armor. That would be even less profitable than making new armor and have the additional effect of upsetting players who already purchased the Outfits.

Why would it be less profitable?
Right now so many people don’t buy outfits,

You have zero data on how many people purchase outfits outside the anecdotal information of one person who can only be in one place in the game at one time and who is playing the game, not counting people.

It would be less profitable because a number of the people who already purchased the Outfit would not purchase the armor.

Djinn.9245:

You said their comment makes no sense. It makes perfect sense for the way they currently make armor. If they were to do what you suggest, that would be a different situation.

I also am not certain what you mean by “make the same outfit jsut as six different armor pieces”? Do you mean use the current outfits or change the way they make armor so they first make an outfit and then split it?

The first option would not be a good solution for reasons I already stated. The second option might not be any faster than making the pieces separately.

Unless we’ve actually created clothing for MMOs it’s hard to know exactly how to improve the process. I would think professionals would know more than people who have no idea how it’s done.

Look, one last try.
If you want to make any object in a game, no matter what. You have to first make an 3d model in a modeling tool.

This already happened with the outfits that are right now in the game. This needs to happen if we want to make any armor in the game.

What I am saying is: The 3d data is the starting point. It’s the same for armor and for outfits.

To make the 3d data for every race/gender is what takes the most time.
This work is already done.

Now take the 3d model of the outfit, cut it into 6 different pieces and make 6 separate 3d models out of it. Then just do what you normally do to make armor from a 3d model.

Presumably it’s not as easy as some might think. While they haven’t laid out the restrictions/problems they’ve hinted at it and said there are more considerations than what players know of.

A post discussing armor and new emotes

Regina B

GimmeSylvari

Hi ! Will there ever be any official armor design contests? Like the guild emblem creation, but for a full armor set ?

Also, seeing that the animators do such a great job in GW2, why can’t we get more emotes ? (Could even be a gemstore thing, as long as it’s not a book thingie that we have to take everywhere, but something that unlocks new emote commands instead ?)

Armor is one of the most expensive things in the game to create. Armor is complicated and needs to be created with many considerations in mind, and these considerations may not be easily apparent or describable to fan armor designers. It isn’t a bad idea to run a contest like this, but it’s many orders more involved than other types of contests, which may be a better use of our limited development and marketing resources. We always have to weigh the pros and cons of any type of contest based on our marketing goals.

Resources and priority comes up with animation and emotes as well. Yes, we can technically create new emotes, but they need to be prioritized over other needs. Do new player emotes take priority over animation for creatures in (as an example) the next raid? If game directors believe that this is a good use of our limited resources, then then this would be prioritized and resources would be allocated accordingly. It would be awesome to have new player-character emotes, but we don’t have unlimited animators, and they may have other other priorities that supersede the desire for new emotes.

Djinn.9245:

You have zero data on how many people purchase outfits outside the anecdotal information of one person who can only be in one place in the game at one time and who is playing the game, not counting people.

It would be less profitable because a number of the people who already purchased the Outfit would not purchase the armor.

Telling me it’s impossible to know how many people purchase outfits. Then continues telling me what those unknown number of people will do at a future sale.

Maybe people who already bought the outfit wouldn’t buy the corresponding armor set. But where have I ever mentioned that?
I said people who did not want to buy that outfit could now be more interested in buying several outfits.

mXz.4512:

Leo G.4501:

Title

Stop Making Outfits

No.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Unless they revamp every armor in the game or start completely over it’s going to be full armor sets for expansions only and outfits in the gemstore.

Players don’t want compromise, only results.

I’m actually perfectly happy with outfits because they look good. They can be improved to add a few more custom options but it helps they are also much more time friendly to create. I think GW2 would have been much greater if they focused on ONLY outfits with options like backpieces, helms and auras being the custom options and adding more race options.

While I like mix-and-match armor, GW2 doesn’t do well in making a stark variety of pieces to mix. That is, each piece isn’t distinct enough to warrant their existance. Some gloves just look too similar to other gloves, some pants too similar to other pants, etc. To be truly effective, you need to create pieces that rely on their own aesthetic merit, not “need to make 6 pieces to complete a set”. It’s even worse when you consider that there are 3 weights. Light armor doesn’t need “shoulder” gear, for example.

Looking like every next character kills the game and the creativity it’s been partially based on. They might as well remove the wardrobe system, cultural armors and gender-based armors and all others.

If you’d rather look 50-100% like the next human or charr, then the game just depreciated that much in diversity. Customization and diversity is what drives creativity and is one of the things that draws new and old players.

And Anet’s statement that it took 9 months(?) to make all the armors at launch, I highly doubt that. It sounds much more sensible that they hired a lot of temp workers just for the creation of armors, then just dumped them shortly after. So there went a lot that potential +money, now everyone who’s tired of outfits or prefers mix and match is left with no new options.

Diversity for diversity’s sake is also a lame excuse. There’s a difference between being creative and being a special snowflake. The fact of the matter is, the system doesn’t support being creative because the system relies on you to collect skins over utilizing a system of options to create a unique and fashionable character. It divides your options by armor weight rather than what you desire for a particular look. It forces you to use limiting charges to make said changes rather than just utilizing the changes you want and it cost inventory space to store multiple looks on a given character. These factors are CREATIVE factors and they’re all stifled.

But your point falls short. I never said outfits are perfect. In fact, I said they could change some things so outfits can have better customization freedom such as dye channels for various parts of the outfit, the ability to turn parts of the outfit off (could be like helm/shoulders or something more advanced like certain textures or special sections of the outfit unique to that outfit having the option to turn it off) along with possibilities to wear other helms/back pieces and auras.

The problem is, people like you see the status quo and you don’t see the bloat. The useless parts that you cover up or ignore took time to make and for what? For diversity, a nebulous goal at the cost of actual creativity. So you can feel special because you lack actual vision?

Adenin.5973:

Do you want to tell me now why you are saying that we can’t start making the already existing 3d data of the already created outfits, that are already adjusted for each and every possible combination of gender and race and make armor out of it like anet has done it so many times before?

What is your point?

Anet’s already said, making outfits, you only have to make them fit the character model while for armor, you have to make each individual piece fit with other pieces of that armor weight and since each armor weight has different connection points, they don’t fit other armor weights the same thus the necessity to make 3 sets of armors so you don’t leave an armor weight out (that is, if you make a new Light armor set and don’t make anything for Medium or Heavy, people while complain).

Leo G.4501:

Anet’s already said, making outfits, you only have to make them fit the character model while for armor, you have to make each individual piece fit with other pieces of that armor weight and since each armor weight has different connection points, they don’t fit other armor weights the same thus the necessity to make 3 sets of armors so you don’t leave an armor weight out (that is, if you make a new Light armor set and don’t make anything for Medium or Heavy, people while complain).

Again, you start with the raw 3d data. There are no connection points at this time.

Then you make armor pieces out of the 3d model of the outfit. An outfit that already has 3d models for every race/gender combination.
Of course from this point on you have to do everything that you would have to do in order to make normal armor. I don’t understand why everyone is talking about connection point issues.

The work anet saves through already having modeled the outfits enables them to start directly at the point where they start setting connection points and that stuff up.

At the end we will get from one outfit one armorset for every armor type. Every armorset looks the same, like it was before when you equipped an outfit on light/medium/heavy armor classes.

And if we are talking about not fitting together and clipping issues with already existing armor, then I can only say that you should look at how bad stuff is clipping already.

Let the players decide what fits and what not.

Adenin.5973:

Leo G.4501:

Anet’s already said, making outfits, you only have to make them fit the character model while for armor, you have to make each individual piece fit with other pieces of that armor weight and since each armor weight has different connection points, they don’t fit other armor weights the same thus the necessity to make 3 sets of armors so you don’t leave an armor weight out (that is, if you make a new Light armor set and don’t make anything for Medium or Heavy, people while complain).

Again, you start with the raw 3d data. There are no connection points at this time.

Then you make armor pieces out of the 3d model of the outfit. An outfit that already has 3d models for every race/gender combination.
Of course from this point on you have to do everything that you would have to do in order to make normal armor. I don’t understand why everyone is talking about connection point issues.

The work anet saves through already having modeled the outfits enables them to start directly at the point where they start setting connection points and that stuff up.

At the end we will get from one outfit one armorset for every armor type. Every armorset looks the same, like it was before when you equipped an outfit on light/medium/heavy armor classes.

And if we are talking about not fitting together and clipping issues with already existing armor, then I can only say that you should look at how bad stuff is clipping already.

Let the players decide what fits and what not.

You’re not taking into consideration how specific pieces function. You can’t just ignore how they connect because that is a critical feature of how armor is created. Pieces cast clipping masks and make parts of the character models or other armor pieces invisible. That’s not something you just ignore but designed around.

Leo G.4501:

You’re not taking into consideration how specific pieces function. You can’t just ignore how they connect because that is a critical feature of how armor is created. Pieces cast clipping masks and make parts of the character models or other armor pieces invisible. That’s not something you just ignore but designed around.

Take the 3d model and cut it for each armor type in pieces, so that they can connect to the specific connection point of the desired armor class.
This should require like 5 minutes of active work by a person that knows how to use the modeling tool, that knows where to cut.

Why is this such a huge problem suddenly?

Adenin.5973:

Leo G.4501:

You’re not taking into consideration how specific pieces function. You can’t just ignore how they connect because that is a critical feature of how armor is created. Pieces cast clipping masks and make parts of the character models or other armor pieces invisible. That’s not something you just ignore but designed around.

Take the 3d model and cut it for each armor type in pieces, so that they can connect to the specific connection point of the desired armor class.
This should require like 5 minutes of active work by a person that knows how to use the modeling tool, that knows where to cut.

Why is this such a huge problem suddenly?

“…Armor is complicated and needs to be created with many considerations in mind, and these considerations may not be easily apparent or describable….”

Then what is the complicated parts and the many considerations that the above quote referred to?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

“…Armor is complicated and needs to be created with many considerations in mind, and these considerations may not be easily apparent or describable….”

Then what is the complicated parts and the many considerations that the above quote referred to?

I have said it and I will say it again: I do not know why anet is not converting outfits to armor.

The given information does not implicate that there is any major problem. I’ve told you why the very few given reasons for why it’s not happening do not make any sense:

- 3d models are already done for every race/gender
- clipping and fitting issues are already existing with normal armors
- need for distinguishable armor types “trenchcoat argument” is no longer valid since we already have the same outfits for everyone

So in my opinion we may have official information on why it’s not happening but these given reasons are either wrong or need additional information to make sense.

To me that answer sounds like every standard answer given from a dev or company that wants to quickly answer an annoying question they get permanently asked.

Oh this is not that easy, ughh how to even start explain this to you? Maybe we look into it but our engine is not build around it, we rather spend time producing new content blah blah…
Like we never heard that before. It’s an answer that answers nothing, where they only tell things everyone already knew.

It’s the first thing you answer to your boss if he gives you an annoying task to do. Later you can surprise him how efficient and easily you mastered that difficult challenge that was never difficult to begin with. That’s of course only if you feel like doing it, otherwise you can complain about how impossible the task was to do.

But I already accepted that we won’t get all those shiny armor pieces…

It needs to happen but it won’t. Its a shame because no mix-and-match is an automatic no buy for me and I’m sure many other folks. There have been many times where I’ve liked 1 or 2 elements from an outfit but not the whole thing but didn’t buy it because you couldn’t separate out the pieces.

Money talks guys and gals.

If Anet is making outfits it’s because we are buying them.

Direct your purchases to influence future content.

I agree with OP. Making outfits into separate armor pieces will give players more freedom and variety when customizing their characters.

Tumult.2578:

Money talks guys and gals.

If Anet is making outfits it’s because we are buying them.

Direct your purchases to influence future content.

You are right, but when is the last time ANET made a new skin set? I genuinely don’t know. Its hard to vote with your wallet when there is nothing to vote for if you know what I mean.

Will.9785:

Tumult.2578:

Money talks guys and gals.

If Anet is making outfits it’s because we are buying them.

Direct your purchases to influence future content.

You are right, but when is the last time ANET made a new skin set? I genuinely don’t know. Its hard to vote with your wallet when there is nothing to vote for if you know what I mean.

So you bought all the armor skins in the gemshop already?

They do come back from time to time and if anet saw kitten we sold 40000 chaos gloves the day they came back, maybe people really like armor skins.

Will.9785:

Tumult.2578:

Money talks guys and gals.

If Anet is making outfits it’s because we are buying them.

Direct your purchases to influence future content.

You are right, but when is the last time ANET made a new skin set? I genuinely don’t know. Its hard to vote with your wallet when there is nothing to vote for if you know what I mean.

That’s a particular issue with the wardrobe system: people think we need whole sets when what you need are distinct pieces with unique themes. Sure, make a “theme set of skins” but you don’t need 6 pieces for a complete theme.

Adenin.5973:

Djinn.9245:

You said their comment makes no sense. It makes perfect sense for the way they currently make armor. If they were to do what you suggest, that would be a different situation.

I also am not certain what you mean by “make the same outfit jsut as six different armor pieces”? Do you mean use the current outfits or change the way they make armor so they first make an outfit and then split it?

The first option would not be a good solution for reasons I already stated. The second option might not be any faster than making the pieces separately.

Unless we’ve actually created clothing for MMOs it’s hard to know exactly how to improve the process. I would think professionals would know more than people who have no idea how it’s done.

Look, one last try.
If you want to make any object in a game, no matter what. You have to first make an 3d model in a modeling tool.

This already happened with the outfits that are right now in the game. This needs to happen if we want to make any armor in the game.

What I am saying is: The 3d data is the starting point. It’s the same for armor and for outfits.

Is it? I don’t know how you would know that for a fact unless you have worked on GW2. It could be that creating an outfit and creating armor is a different process.

Adenin.5973:

Djinn.9245:

You have zero data on how many people purchase outfits outside the anecdotal information of one person who can only be in one place in the game at one time and who is playing the game, not counting people.

It would be less profitable because a number of the people who already purchased the Outfit would not purchase the armor.

Telling me it’s impossible to know how many people purchase outfits. Then continues telling me what those unknown number of people will do at a future sale.

I said “a number” of those people, I didn’t say what all of them would do.

Adenin.5973:

Maybe people who already bought the outfit wouldn’t buy the corresponding armor set. But where have I ever mentioned that?

Who said you did mention that? I offered it as one reason why Anet could lose money creating armor out of outfits.

This is not the first (nor the last) “no outfit” or “more armor sets” thread. ANet (and your fellow players) have seen all the arguments already. If it was profitable to make more sets, they would; if it were as easy to make armor as outfits, they would. They keep releasing new outfits & re-releasing old ones, while limiting armor sets to major game updates — that should tell us everything we need to know about the realities of the economics, design, & testing of skins.

In the end, it boils down to these extremes:

• You believe ANet knows what they are doing, in which case, there are good reasons why it takes them so long to produce new armor sets (e.g. each piece must be tested against every other piece in the game, for each race/gender) versus outfits (e.g. each piece stands on its own).
• You believe that they don’t understand how it could be simpler, in which case, posting in this thread will fall on deaf ears (erm, maybe blind eyes, if pedantry is in the way of the metaphor). And even if they were receptive, they wouldn’t understand.

Adenin.5973:

Leo G.4501:

You’re not taking into consideration how specific pieces function. You can’t just ignore how they connect because that is a critical feature of how armor is created. Pieces cast clipping masks and make parts of the character models or other armor pieces invisible. That’s not something you just ignore but designed around.

Take the 3d model and cut it for each armor type in pieces, so that they can connect to the specific connection point of the desired armor class.
This should require like 5 minutes of active work by a person that knows how to use the modeling tool, that knows where to cut.

Why is this such a huge problem suddenly?

For clarification: have you used the modeling tool that GW2 uses? Have you created armor for a MMO? I just want to know what your experience is that you are able to make the above statement with certainty.

Will.9785:

Tumult.2578:

Money talks guys and gals.

If Anet is making outfits it’s because we are buying them.

Direct your purchases to influence future content.

You are right, but when is the last time ANET made a new skin set? I genuinely don’t know. Its hard to vote with your wallet when there is nothing to vote for if you know what I mean.

I have purchased almost every armor set and only purchased 1 outfit. That is how you vote with your wallet.

People who have purchased a bunch of armor but also purchased a bunch of outfits are sending the wrong message if they prefer armor.

Djinn.9245:

For clarification: have you used the modeling tool that GW2 uses? Have you created armor for a MMO? I just want to know what your experience is that you are able to make the above statement with certainty.

Well I asked you this question already you did not answer it:

Do you believe that anet is the only game company in the entire world that does not use an already existing 3d modeling tool to model a 3d model?

There is no magical GW2 way of creating a 3d model. It’s a d3 modeling tool that’s used to create the model. It’s then in some way converted and prepared to whatever their engine needs.

If we have the 3d model of an outfit you can start there with creating an armor set out of it.
This is not rocket science. It’s logical and understandable for amateurs.

You can watch YT videos from experienced game developers that explain you the detailed process of how to make 3d models for certain engines. For every engine the first step ist the same:
Create a 3d model in a common modeling tool.

Adenin.5973:

Clipping is no excuse.

Yeah and 98% of the Outfits clip on my female Sylvari anyway, especially with weapons, legs and arms, during idle animations and in combat (long buttcapes clip into the ground). At least my current mix-n-match has no clipping at all, I can’t do that with Outfits thanks to their bulky, overcomplicated and restricted design.