Guild Wars 2

penguin.6491:

I might be one of the only person who enjoys outfits. I like having a second clothing option to what I’ve transmogged on the gear that the character is currently wearing. I don’t want to transmog constantly due to my whims. Buuuuuut I hate how so many of the outfits are similar and I totally get why people want more options between things. Yet it seems like it would be a lot of work on their part, they gotta cut corners somewhere I suppose? IDK

You are correct that outfits are a quick, easy way to change your look. However having played many other MMOs I have seen better ways.

Lord of the Rings Online has a fabulous costume system. You can have up to 7 “outfit” tabs that can save your costume looks for you. And each tab has a complete set of cosmetic gear (including weapons) with each slot being able to be toggled on and off. Best of all, every single gear slot on every single costume tab can take normal armor, no transmutation into a “skin” required. If you get a loot drop that you like you can simply add it to one of your outfit tabs at no cost.

This costume system is almost 10 years old…

Adenin.5973:

Djinn.9245:

For clarification: have you used the modeling tool that GW2 uses? Have you created armor for a MMO? I just want to know what your experience is that you are able to make the above statement with certainty.

Well I asked you this question already you did not answer it:

Do you believe that anet is the only game company in the entire world that does not use an already existing 3d modeling tool to model a 3d model?

There is no magical GW2 way of creating a 3d model. It’s a d3 modeling tool that’s used to create the model. It’s then in some way converted and prepared to whatever their engine needs.

If we have the 3d model of an outfit you can start there with creating an armor set out of it.
This is not rocket science. It’s logical and understandable for amateurs.

You can watch YT videos from experienced game developers that explain you the detailed process of how to make 3d models for certain engines. For every engine the first step ist the same:
Create a 3d model in a common modeling tool.

So is your answer “no”? You have not used GW2’s tool and so you have no idea how they create armor?

Certainly it seems like it would be an easy prospect. I myself have asked why they can’t do certain things that make sense. But there is a difference between asking why and insisting that they can do something.

Djinn.9245:

Lord of the Rings Online has a fabulous costume system.

Rift too! We can mix and match different armor weight (cloth, leather, chain, plate) and weapon types (hammer skin on a staff!) anytime and anywhere for free! Sure, there are clipping issues but we mix-n-match until we look perfect and there are tons of skins to collect in that game as well. I will never forget my favorite cloth-leather mix on my Cleric (who wears chain armor). Too bad Rift’s wardrobe and housing are the only things I like about that game… I wish we had both in GW2.

Sorry to say anet your “fix sets” are pretty boring tbh and without the old mix and match. Fashion wars 2 is dying down. I used to constantly buy transmutation gems back at first year because it was fun to mix our own armor skin, especially boring medium set that is almost all trench coat. I doubt I will throw in any money for your outfits.

Djinn.9245:

penguin.6491:

I might be one of the only person who enjoys outfits. I like having a second clothing option to what I’ve transmogged on the gear that the character is currently wearing. I don’t want to transmog constantly due to my whims. Buuuuuut I hate how so many of the outfits are similar and I totally get why people want more options between things. Yet it seems like it would be a lot of work on their part, they gotta cut corners somewhere I suppose? IDK

You are correct that outfits are a quick, easy way to change your look. However having played many other MMOs I have seen better ways.

Lord of the Rings Online has a fabulous costume system. You can have up to 7 “outfit” tabs that can save your costume looks for you. And each tab has a complete set of cosmetic gear (including weapons) with each slot being able to be toggled on and off. Best of all, every single gear slot on every single costume tab can take normal armor, no transmutation into a “skin” required. If you get a loot drop that you like you can simply add it to one of your outfit tabs at no cost.

This costume system is almost 10 years old…

Still nothing on City of Heroes. Costumes weren’t even linked to “gear” so you can have as complex or minimalist as you desire, you had multiple costume saves with more purchasable in the cash shop, you had plethora of costume transformation animations to choose from to swap to those various saved costumes, you had 100% control cosmetically of a character, i.e. the single character can be a man, a woman or a “bulk” type body by changing their costume (actually had a character whose origin was they were a pair of demons, one male, one female, that morphed into magical weapons for their counterpart to hold (if you’ve seen Souleater, think of the weapon meisters)) and you could choose custom animations and colors for your powers.

Leo G.4501:

Still nothing on City of Heroes. Costumes weren’t even linked to “gear” so you can have as complex or minimalist as you desire, you had multiple costume saves with more purchasable in the cash shop, you had plethora of costume transformation animations to choose from to swap to those various saved costumes, you had 100% control cosmetically of a character, i.e. the single character can be a man, a woman or a “bulk” type body by changing their costume (actually had a character whose origin was they were a pair of demons, one male, one female, that morphed into magical weapons for their counterpart to hold (if you’ve seen Souleater, think of the weapon meisters)) and you could choose custom animations and colors for your powers.

True. I never played CoH but Champions Online had the same thing. It was so much FUN! I wish I could choose colors for my powers in GW2! I’d sell my soul for a pink Necro.

Djinn.9245:

So is your answer “no”? You have not used GW2’s tool and so you have no idea how they create armor?

Certainly it seems like it would be an easy prospect. I myself have asked why they can’t do certain things that make sense. But there is a difference between asking why and insisting that they can do something.

Well, I at least will answer your question finally.
In case you ever asked seriously: No I am not a developer that has ever worked on GW2.

That said: It makes no difference at all how armors for gw2 are created. An example:

I do not need to know how exactly and in every little detail how my computer monitor is working. What I do know however is that it requires electricity and a certain voltage and I do know also that my monitor does not produce that electricity itself.
It does not matter in which of my 12 sockets my monitor is plugged in. As long as it delivers the right current and voltage my monitor will produce a frame.

It’s the same thing with the armor:
I do not know how exactly and in every detail anet exactly makes their armors or outfits.
But it does not matter, because I do know that the first thing required for them is a 3d model. We know we have a 3d model for the outfits, if they have a 3d model they can make everything from it that anet can make from a 3d model.

If I give them a 3d model of a simple sphere, they can make an armor out of it. It may will look ridiculous and will glitch through everything but from any 3d model you can make every ingame object. You can make a plant that looks like a sphere you can make an entire race that looks like a sphere. Does not matter. After creating a 3d model there maybe still months of work to do (take the example with creating a new race) but still it all starts with a simple 3d model file.

As long as we have a 3d model of an armor/outfit we can make armor out of it. There is no reason why there should be any difference at this point between a 3d concept piece of armor or of an outfit.

Leo G.4501:

Djinn.9245:

penguin.6491:

I might be one of the only person who enjoys outfits. I like having a second clothing option to what I’ve transmogged on the gear that the character is currently wearing. I don’t want to transmog constantly due to my whims. Buuuuuut I hate how so many of the outfits are similar and I totally get why people want more options between things. Yet it seems like it would be a lot of work on their part, they gotta cut corners somewhere I suppose? IDK

You are correct that outfits are a quick, easy way to change your look. However having played many other MMOs I have seen better ways.

Lord of the Rings Online has a fabulous costume system. You can have up to 7 “outfit” tabs that can save your costume looks for you. And each tab has a complete set of cosmetic gear (including weapons) with each slot being able to be toggled on and off. Best of all, every single gear slot on every single costume tab can take normal armor, no transmutation into a “skin” required. If you get a loot drop that you like you can simply add it to one of your outfit tabs at no cost.

This costume system is almost 10 years old…

Still nothing on City of Heroes. Costumes weren’t even linked to “gear” so you can have as complex or minimalist as you desire, you had multiple costume saves with more purchasable in the cash shop, you had plethora of costume transformation animations to choose from to swap to those various saved costumes, you had 100% control cosmetically of a character, i.e. the single character can be a man, a woman or a “bulk” type body by changing their costume (actually had a character whose origin was they were a pair of demons, one male, one female, that morphed into magical weapons for their counterpart to hold (if you’ve seen Souleater, think of the weapon meisters)) and you could choose custom animations and colors for your powers.

CO took the same basic system and ran with it a bit further. Each piece was selectable right vs left side. You could choose different gauntlets, for example, for the right and left hand. There were also separate pieces for shoulder, glove, boot, leg, leg accessories, arm accessories, and so on….all divorced from stats, selectable individually L or R, and with multiple full costume saves for instant changing.

I would say instead of making outfits be outfits only how about they make outfits be outfits with wardrobe pieces as well. Sortof like what they did with the wings. Some wings have backpack variants so they stand out while not in flight!

That would solve the issue!

I would like ANet to keep making outfits. However, I would be more likely to buy more outfits if ANet were to make more outfits that were less ornate than most of what comes out. The over-elaborate in both armor pieces and outfits does nothing for me.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I would like ANet to keep making outfits. However, I would be more likely to buy more outfits if ANet were to make more outfits that were less ornate than most of what comes out. The over-elaborate in both armor pieces and outfits does nothing for me.

Never hear this opinion much and I agree. Of the outfits I do have, besides the Assassin, I use Jungle Explorer, Monk and Noble Count more than the the fancy ones. And for armor, I usually aim for the least bulky/covering and most form-fitting pieces. Can I just have a loincloth and bare legs for heavy?

Can’t make a good variety of characters when the armor hasn’t hit all those special bases yet.

I really like the outfits. I own all of them. I just wish we could mix and match pieces of the outfits with other armor pieces. Not cross match outfits, just pieces of 1 outfit with armor.

Leo G.4501:

mXz.4512:

Leo G.4501:

Title

Stop Making Outfits

No.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Unless they revamp every armor in the game or start completely over it’s going to be full armor sets for expansions only and outfits in the gemstore.

Players don’t want compromise, only results.

I’m actually perfectly happy with outfits because they look good. They can be improved to add a few more custom options but it helps they are also much more time friendly to create. I think GW2 would have been much greater if they focused on ONLY outfits with options like backpieces, helms and auras being the custom options and adding more race options.

While I like mix-and-match armor, GW2 doesn’t do well in making a stark variety of pieces to mix. That is, each piece isn’t distinct enough to warrant their existance. Some gloves just look too similar to other gloves, some pants too similar to other pants, etc. To be truly effective, you need to create pieces that rely on their own aesthetic merit, not “need to make 6 pieces to complete a set”. It’s even worse when you consider that there are 3 weights. Light armor doesn’t need “shoulder” gear, for example.

Looking like every next character kills the game and the creativity it’s been partially based on. They might as well remove the wardrobe system, cultural armors and gender-based armors and all others.

If you’d rather look 50-100% like the next human or charr, then the game just depreciated that much in diversity. Customization and diversity is what drives creativity and is one of the things that draws new and old players.

And Anet’s statement that it took 9 months(?) to make all the armors at launch, I highly doubt that. It sounds much more sensible that they hired a lot of temp workers just for the creation of armors, then just dumped them shortly after. So there went a lot that potential +money, now everyone who’s tired of outfits or prefers mix and match is left with no new options.

Diversity for diversity’s sake is also a lame excuse. There’s a difference between being creative and being a special snowflake. The fact of the matter is, the system doesn’t support being creative because the system relies on you to collect skins over utilizing a system of options to create a unique and fashionable character. It divides your options by armor weight rather than what you desire for a particular look. It forces you to use limiting charges to make said changes rather than just utilizing the changes you want and it cost inventory space to store multiple looks on a given character. These factors are CREATIVE factors and they’re all stifled.

But your point falls short. I never said outfits are perfect. In fact, I said they could change some things so outfits can have better customization freedom such as dye channels for various parts of the outfit, the ability to turn parts of the outfit off (could be like helm/shoulders or something more advanced like certain textures or special sections of the outfit unique to that outfit having the option to turn it off) along with possibilities to wear other helms/back pieces and auras.

The problem is, people like you see the status quo and you don’t see the bloat. The useless parts that you cover up or ignore took time to make and for what? For diversity, a nebulous goal at the cost of actual creativity. So you can feel special because you lack actual vision?

Thirsting for more options to exercise creativity does not make one a special snowflake. People who prefer or demand that certain content remain exclusive after a short period so that others cannot attain certain content are. People who want to completely shut out and limit other people from having more options are. I’d simply like them to make better use of time to implement actual armor pieces instead of a set of coveralls. The time used to spit out each outfit, they could have fashioned up a decent looking set. Instead, we got coveralls. And of course I know the whole weights, race, gender deal. But tell me, why’s it so hard now to implement “30 armors” according to how anet described it, when they’ve had so much time to get used to it all long after launch? Despite most of the dev teams getting cut shortly after.

And no it’s not a lame or weak excuse. If you showed me the game at launch featuring characters of each race that wore the exact same sets of armor, I wouldn’t have even touched the game. What outfits do is put a tuxedo on an elementalist, a thief, and a warrior. There’s zero difference apart from any disabled helm, shoulder or gloves and the dyes. Even though I’ve bought some outfits, it still isn’t the same and never will be.

I could simply turn off the game ambient music, but why do that when I could simply create a custom folder with my own selected music, insert it into the Gw2 folder and listen to them as I play? Because they’ve given us the choice for it. Outfits do nothing of the sort.

I’m very keen on detail even during character creation, each toon takes me roughly 20 to 30 mins to get everything just right, sometimes a bit longer. I just wish anet could and would invest more time making each individual piece of a set. Does it have to be all at once? No. It can certainly be spread out over time as long as it’s not a cookie cutter outfit after another. And simply turning off a shoulder piece or glove does not cut it. There’s a fair difference between one’s own distinct taste in mix-matched armor looks versus someone who wants the most expensive sets of armor such as legendary that few people out of an entire player base wants to get only to look flashy and special.

Armor variety and choice was far richer at launch than what it is now. It’s very much a drought since the last time they released a set. And 3 pieces is not a set. Smh.

Don’t we still have the armors we had a launch? If choice was rich then, and the armors are still available, why is choice now not rich?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Don’t we still have the armors we had a launch? If choice was rich then, and the armors are still available, why is choice now not rich?

/sigh

Inculpatus….

Please stop dragging logic into each and every thread you get on. It’s soooooo annoying.

/s

Oh my gosh! My bad. I am sooo sorry.

I do forget where I am, sometimes. Drawback of being ancient. =(

Regarding clipping arguments:
It should indeed be possible for the 3D model of outfits to be cut into 6 different pieces for a set.

Outfits are already available for all armour weights so the pieces could be as well. An example of when this wouldn’t work however is for something like a trench coat. For example the Outlaw Outfit’s coat wouldn’t work with all heavy and light armour skins since it would clip with a lot of the pants. Similarly, the Balthazar’s Regalia Outfit’s pants wouldn’t work with all medium chest pieces, since it would cause what I’d call “major clipping” issues. Personally I wouldn’t have a problem with these issues since I just wouldn’t equip two armour pieces that clip that badly, but I can see how some people wouldn’t like it being possible to begin with.

My solution would be to keep outfits as they are, but also add armour sets along with them (much like how you get back pieces that correspond with gliders), however although the outfit would be universal to all armour weights, the set would not, depending on “major clipping” issues. I’d just make sure to clearly state in the gem store which armour weights the set would work with, so people don’t purchase something thinking they’d get something else.

I’d imagine this solution would take far less resources than the alternative: “allow every amour weight access to every set, however prevent people from equipping certain pieces at the same time” solution.

To recap:
Solution 1 (lazy): Split outfits into 6 piece sets for all armour weights, ignoring clipping issues. Simplest implementation, laziest results.

Solution 2 (recommended): Split outfits into 6 piece sets, but only allow certain armour weights access to certain sets, depending on “major clipping” issues. More effort, cleaner results.

Solution 3 (tedious): Split outfits into 6 piece sets for all armour weights, however prevent pieces that cause major clipping issues from being equipped at the same time. I suppose for this solution you could say something like: “if trench coat is equipped, prevent pants cape being equipped, and vice versa”. I’d imagine this solution would be the most complicated to implement and probably confusing for players to deal with in-game.

Bonus Solution (overkill): Split outfits into 6 piece sets for all armour weights and alter armour pieces depending on the other armour pieces they’re equipped with. This is probably the ideal result, however it wouldn’t be worth the amount of resources required to implement it.

Nitron.6405:

It should indeed be possible for the 3D model of outfits to be cut into 6 different pieces for a set.

It’s always possible to cut designs. The question is: would anyone like how it looks? Is it actually as easy to do this as you describe, or are the individual armor pieces actually more involved items? (Just as backpieces aren’t able to be dyed, while nearly-identical glider skins can be, because the objects aren’t nearly identical.)

Do you really think that ANet has never considered this as an option? Do you think that they like the fact that they coded themselves into a corner where armor takes forever to release?

They have seen suggestions like this before. The fact that they have doubled-down on outfits and haven’t followed any such suggestion implies that it’s nothing like as simple as described or that they are just too stubborn to change or too unskilled to make it happen. Whichever of those it is, the situation isn’t going to change anytime soon.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Don’t we still have the armors we had a launch? If choice was rich then, and the armors are still available, why is choice now not rich?

It’s a function of, “What have you made for us lately?” At least that’s my best guess.

Perhaps, then, that should be their lament, rather than saying there was much choice with armor at launch, and now, even though no (or nearly no) armor has been removed, there is less choice.

I mean, there is still 2000-3000 pieces of gear. In fact, there are more than there were at launch.

Nitron.6405:

Solution 2 (recommended): Split outfits into 6 piece sets, but only allow certain armour weights access to certain sets, depending on “major clipping” issues. More effort, cleaner results.

I actually think this is the best practical solution. A single designer could probably pump out at least a ‘new’ converted armor set per week.

Even if there was much work to do after cutting the outfit 3d model into pieces, the values and color patterns etc are already there from the outfits and should not be that hard to recreate for the armor set.

I hope they one day will do it that way, even if this solution severely limits the amount of ‘new’ outfit-armor sets per armor type it’s far better than what we have now.

mXz.4512:

I’d simply like them to make better use of time to implement actual armor pieces instead of a set of coveralls.

I could have agreed with you until you got to this part:

mXz.4512:

The time used to spit out each outfit, they could have fashioned up a decent looking set.

For one, you have no way of knowing that. For two, the point that you feel you’re compromising for entire sets (no clarification, so I’m assuming you mean 6 piece sets) demonstrates you don’t recognize the bloat of work you’re insisting. For three, that you haven’t acknowledged that sets aren’t needed but rather distinct pieces, because you honestly do not need a pair of pants with the same glowing aura and texture but with a slightly different shape of spike coming out the side plus an entire set of other pieces that are just a variant of “lots of glowing spikes”.

mXz.4512:

But tell me, why’s it so hard now to implement “30 armors” according to how anet described it, when they’ve had so much time to get used to it all long after launch? Despite most of the dev teams getting cut shortly after.

Because 8 of those 30 armors were variants off each other’s buttcape design with altered textures and different combos of bulging shoulders and maybe 10 of those being wholly unique.

mXz.4512:

And no it’s not a lame or weak excuse.

It is because you’re particularly biased against outfits when many of those outfits are quite unique and fashionable compared to other armor options. Just because they’re coveralls doesn’t mean you see your identical self walking around Tyria in the same thing. In fact, I find it’s rarer than you’d think.

So yeah, your excuse is lame and weak.

I could simply turn off the game ambient music, but why do that when I could simply create a custom folder with my own selected music, insert it into the Gw2 folder and listen to them as I play? Because they’ve given us the choice for it. Outfits do nothing of the sort.

Bullcrap. I’ve played other games with a similar “coveralls” customization option (talking Blade and Soul…and they can’t even dye their outfits!) and you still have extremely unique characters even if they’re wearing the same thing (they actually embraced that with unique “Clan Uniforms” that is extremely difficult to duplicate outside of your clan unless they try). And it makes sense in their lore, as Clans/Martial Arts schools tend to have matching uniforms to display what school/clan they are a part of.

The problem is YOU cannot create something unique and intriguing, not the system…because in this system you can, even with outfits. You just refuse to see the truth.

mXz.4512:

Armor variety and choice was far richer at launch than what it is now. It’s very much a drought since the last time they released a set. And 3 pieces is not a set. Smh.

And this is just plain making stuff up.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Perhaps, then, that should be their lament, rather than saying there was much choice with armor at launch, and now, even though no (or nearly no) armor has been removed, there is less choice.

I mean, there is still 2000-3000 pieces of gear. In fact, there are more than there were at launch.

You can’t really compare some standard low level armor to the looks of the outfits, that have so much more variety, so much better quality, better effects etc.

Also it does not matter how much pieces of armor there are if most pieces look boring or almost the same, if they do not fit well together.

The major argument for converting outfits into armor never was that there is now somehow less variety than at release it’s not related to this topic and does not make any sense.

There are dozens of truly amazing potential armor sets in the game right now, if they are split into single armor pieces and made available as such, there will be an ridiculous amount of new combinations of mixed and matched armors possible that truly have the potential to look absolutely awesome.

We could right now be on the brink of a devastating outbreak of a new fashionwar that could truly alter the course that fashion takes in this game!

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Don’t we still have the armors we had a launch? If choice was rich then, and the armors are still available, why is choice now not rich?

Aren’t there the same maps available now as there were at launch? So why would there be an issue if Anet hardly ever released a new map? (IMO outfits = single hearts or sometimes dynamic events compared to actual armor sets.)

Djinn.9245:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Don’t we still have the armors we had a launch? If choice was rich then, and the armors are still available, why is choice now not rich?

Aren’t there the same maps available now as there were at launch? So why would there be an issue if Anet hardly ever released a new map? (IMO outfits = single hearts or sometimes dynamic events compared to actual armor sets.)

The post being responded to said “Armor variety and choice was far richer at launch than what it is now.”

If there were the same maps at launch as now then variety and choice would be the same, not less.

In addition, the post being responded too was incorrect about both armor variety and choice as not only is there the original armors from launch but there are the gemstore armors, expansion map armors, WvW armors, PvP armors, Legendary armors as well as a number of individual armor pieces and backpacks; gemstore, map and crafted.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

In addition, the post being responded too was incorrect about both armor variety and choice as not only is there the original armors from launch but there are the gemstore armors, expansion map armors, WvW armors, PvP armors, Legendary armors as well as a number of individual armor pieces and backpacks; gemstore, map and crafted.

Did we even have visible back items at release? My memory wants to say that stuff like holiday event back items were the first step into the realm of backpiece skins but I could be just forgetting something important.

This is truly sad, yes. I feel extra pain when I look at sentinel outfit, its body piece along with leg part is so nice and so great. That hauberk with tabard mhmm... but then there are those silly looking bird shoulders, gauntlets and that helmet that has this nice shadow effect on the face, but another bird is slapped onto it. Alright, overall it is good, but it looks terrible on my character and all I want is that breastplate with leggings. I’d even pay up and smack those gems just to get these two armor parts.

Leo G.4501:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

In addition, the post being responded too was incorrect about both armor variety and choice as not only is there the original armors from launch but there are the gemstore armors, expansion map armors, WvW armors, PvP armors, Legendary armors as well as a number of individual armor pieces and backpacks; gemstore, map and crafted.

Did we even have visible back items at release? My memory wants to say that stuff like holiday event back items were the first step into the realm of backpiece skins but I could be just forgetting something important.

I don’t think so. The first visible backpieces I remember were the Mad Memoirs backpiece with the first Halloween and the Toymaker’s Bag with Wintersday.

Adenin.5973:

Well, I at least will answer your question finally.
In case you ever asked seriously: No I am not a developer that has ever worked on GW2.

So all your suggestions are based in blank theory without any practical experience versus official developer responses that pintpoint the actual problems.

That alone takes a big chunk of credibility out of them.

Adenin.5973:

That said: It makes no difference at all how armors for gw2 are created. An example:

I do not need to know how exactly and in every little detail how my computer monitor is working. What I do know however is that it requires electricity and a certain voltage and I do know also that my monitor does not produce that electricity itself.
It does not matter in which of my 12 sockets my monitor is plugged in. As long as it delivers the right current and voltage my monitor will produce a frame.

True, the difference being you are not on some tech forum telling the engineers how to improve their monitor while they are telling you it can’t be done that way. That’s the part you are ommiting in this example.

There is a difference between understanding the basics and actually improving on them.

This is exactly what you are doing here, you understand a fraction of the basic work in theory, then extrapolating your own arguments and explaining how stuff should work when even the official developer responses have pointed to the problems you are ignoring.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Leo G.4501:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

In addition, the post being responded too was incorrect about both armor variety and choice as not only is there the original armors from launch but there are the gemstore armors, expansion map armors, WvW armors, PvP armors, Legendary armors as well as a number of individual armor pieces and backpacks; gemstore, map and crafted.

Did we even have visible back items at release? My memory wants to say that stuff like holiday event back items were the first step into the realm of backpiece skins but I could be just forgetting something important.

I don’t think so. The first visible backpieces I remember were the Mad Memoirs backpiece with the first Halloween and the Toymaker’s Bag with Wintersday.

We had hobo sacks from the beginning, with engineers having an accident choice of backs (in addition to various environmental weapons, that produced a back skin of some sort).

There weren’t all that many backpacks available in the first place, mostly the ones that dropped in a couple of the dungeons (and those all used the ‘spineguard’ skin model, which is invisible).

i would stay stop making ugly oufits :|

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Perhaps, then, that should be their lament, rather than saying there was much choice with armor at launch, and now, even though no (or nearly no) armor has been removed, there is less choice.

I mean, there is still 2000-3000 pieces of gear. In fact, there are more than there were at launch.

i look at it as sets instead of pieces and keep them per weight class, so i think the 2000-3000 part is exaggerating it quite a bit.
if we could literally use all of them regardless of profession then yes, right now it’s barely hitting a 100.

There are 70+ armor sets per weight with only 7 per weight from the gem shop. This doesn’t include the extra helms, shoulders, gloves and boots available. So far there’s been 50 outfits.

The “true” issue is players wanting parts of outfits to mix and match and refusing to take ANet’s word that the work involved breaking up an outfit into parts isn’t trivial.

Considering they sell outfits for 700 gems and armor sets for 800 gems, it should be obvious if the manpower is so much less between the two why they are favoring outfits.

I would like more armor sets that are race based. I also would like better outfits. No more “fantastical” outfits. They look cheap & make no sense.
I’d love more steampunk outfits; bustles, stockings, cropped jackets, corsets & fancy mens wear.
I hate the way the design team animates glowing objects. It has a weird lighting & is stiff. Am I wearing cardboard or silk? Sorry anet, I can’t tell with over half of your outfits.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Leo G.4501:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

In addition, the post being responded too was incorrect about both armor variety and choice as not only is there the original armors from launch but there are the gemstore armors, expansion map armors, WvW armors, PvP armors, Legendary armors as well as a number of individual armor pieces and backpacks; gemstore, map and crafted.

Did we even have visible back items at release? My memory wants to say that stuff like holiday event back items were the first step into the realm of backpiece skins but I could be just forgetting something important.

I don’t think so. The first visible backpieces I remember were the Mad Memoirs backpiece with the first Halloween and the Toymaker’s Bag with Wintersday.

We had hobo sacks from the beginning, with engineers having an accident choice of backs (in addition to various environmental weapons, that produced a back skin of some sort).

There weren’t all that many backpacks available in the first place, mostly the ones that dropped in a couple of the dungeons (and those all used the ‘spineguard’ skin model, which is invisible).

I remember the engineer hobo sacks. However they were a manifestation of a skill like the auras that elementalists have around their wrist, not a backpack that could be toggled on and off on the UI. I don’t recall any visible gear related backpieces from the UI. Those, as I remember, started with Mad Memoirs, which is what I think that other person is asking about.

One of the character creation options for engineers is a back item.

Adenin.5973:

Anet created a 3d model which was created in a 3d modeling software and is therefore yet not connected in any way to a game or an armor type or anything else, it is at this point in time just a 3DS file for example. You could use this to make now an armor in Skyrim or a new car in GTA or whatever you want.

You have a laughably basic understanding of how software works. Every 3d modeling software isn’t compatible with other 3d modeling software and thus utilize the same file extensions and store information in the same format within those files. Hell, even different versions of a same software isn’t compatible with older versions unless someone scripts it to be such.

Your basic argument is “it uses 3d models so it must be completely malleable to do anything every other 3d model that ever existed can do” and this is not true. Mind you, I’m not saying it’s impossible, I’m saying it’s not inherently true. The creators of armor in an MMO might be great at utilizing tools given and be great artists, but some of them just might lack the programming expertise to bridge gaps in the code of the tools they use.

We know the input, then there is a black box and we know the output.

Do you know the output? Do you REALLY know the output besides the pixels on your screen?

Hyper Cutter.9376:

One of the character creation options for engineers is a back item.

That’s right. I had forgotten about that. Unless there’s another, that was the only visible backpiece at launch. From this humble beginning came all the later backpieces in the game, and then even later the Glider wings.

So be sure to thank an engineer the next time you are doing a jumping puzzle with a max size Norn with giant wings.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

So be sure to thank an engineer the next time you are doing a jumping puzzle with a max size Norn with giant wings.

LOL.

So its all the engies’ fault. Almost as bad as Charr they are.

Leo G.4501:

You have a laughably basic understanding of how software works. Every 3d modeling software isn’t compatible with other 3d modeling software and thus utilize the same file extensions and store information in the same format within those files. Hell, even different versions of a same software isn’t compatible with older versions unless someone scripts it to be such.

Your basic argument is “it uses 3d models so it must be completely malleable to do anything every other 3d model that ever existed can do” and this is not true. Mind you, I’m not saying it’s impossible, I’m saying it’s not inherently true. The creators of armor in an MMO might be great at utilizing tools given and be great artists, but some of them just might lack the programming expertise to bridge gaps in the code of the tools they use.

Do you think that a 3d model from an outfit is so unbelievably different from an armor that they somehow use a completely different 3d modeling tool?

Do you think they use 7 different 3d modeling tools from seven different companies, one for head, shoulders, chest…. and one for outfits, maybe even an extra one to create a tree?

And you are telling me that my argument is laughable?
I actually have a little experience with these things and even if I am not a game programmer I am a programmer my self. I also understand certain basic principles in this industry.

There is not a single reason why you wouldn’t use the same 3d modeling software for an armor as well as for an outfit.

So please enlighten me, you seem to be quite familiar with this topic. What is the exact reason why a 3d modeling software can handle a chest piece but not an outfit? Which both are at this point in time just a 3d model, no matter with what 3d modeling software you built them. Tell me with my basic understanding of how software works, I just can’t get behind it.

It’s quite frankly the craziest argument I have heard in this thread.

Adenin.5973:

Do you think that a 3d model from an outfit is so unbelievably different from an armor that they somehow use a completely different 3d modeling tool?

Do you think they use 7 different 3d modeling tools from seven different companies, one for head, shoulders, chest…. and one for outfits, maybe even an extra one to create a tree?

You have a habit of putting words in people’s mouths. You said:

" You could use this to make now an armor in Skyrim or a new car in GTA or whatever you want."

…as if a 3d model’s data is just malleable to become whatever you want it to be meshed on. While some software does allow that, that doesn’t mean ever software that creates and edits 3d models can or should.

I actually have a little experience with these things and even if I am not a game programmer I am a programmer my self. I also understand certain basic principles in this industry.

If you had experience, you’d exhibit a microbial amount of knowledge that projects as complicated at games have systems of software in place that can make a change as simple as an audio timing edit a multi-day task to accomplish. The least you could do is acknowledge that what you propose isn’t some simple “cut it a certain way” approach because you have no actual 1st or 2nd hand knowledge of how their systems of software is engineered and maintained.

Leo G.4501:

You have a habit of putting words in people’s mouths. You said:

" You could use this to make now an armor in Skyrim or a new car in GTA or whatever you want."

…as if a 3d model’s data is just malleable to become whatever you want it to be meshed on. While some software does allow that, that doesn’t mean ever software that creates and edits 3d models can or should.

So are you telling me right now that Skyrim or GTA 3d models can’t be created in or converted to 3DS? Because this is exactly what I said with that example.
They can.

Leo G.4501:

If you had experience, you’d exhibit a microbial amount of knowledge that projects as complicated at games have systems of software in place that can make a change as simple as an audio timing edit a multi-day task to accomplish. The least you could do is acknowledge that what you propose isn’t some simple “cut it a certain way” approach because you have no actual 1st or 2nd hand knowledge of how their systems of software is engineered and maintained.

Again, are you telling me right now that:
- Anet did not use any 3d modeling software at all?
- Anet is incapable of taking 3d data from one model to create a different game asset?

Another question: Do you think they made the Tequatl boss, the Tequatl mini, the little statue of Tequatl on the reward chest, do you think they always recreated Tequatl from scratch? Or did they just use their, hmmmm…. 3d modeling software, click on import, Tequatl.FILEEXTENSION and then do whatever they needed with it?

Do you think when they made Brahams shoulder piece available as a standalone armor piece, yes you know, that shoulder piece that was initially only part of the Braham outfit a few weeks earlier, do you think they recreated that from scratch?

No one does that! Your argument is insane.

Actually, the Devs expressly stated they could not use the World Boss model to make others as they had different rigs.

They have also said they use proprietary software they have created themselves for their particular engine, which nobody else uses.

Do remember, Outfits are a 4th armor weight, and can not be mixed/matched with the other 3 armor weights.

You can use Google, Wayback Machine, and/or other sources to find these interviews/videos/statements.

Good luck.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Actually, the Devs expressly stated they could not use the World Boss model to make others as they had different rigs.

They have also said they use proprietary software they have created themselves for their particular engine, which nobody else uses.

Do remember, Outfits are a 4th armor weight, and can not be mixed/matched with the other 3 armor weights.

You can use Google, Wayback Machine, and/or other sources to find these interviews/videos/statements.

Good luck.

We are talking about different things here.
I am talking about the static 3d mesh of an object. Rigging, setting up a skeleton and bones, the animation etc are steps that only come after you have created the static 3d mesh.

You are already talking about that “black box”. I am talking about the input we know of. Which is, to clarify it once more, the static 3d mesh of the outfit.

A static 3d mesh has no armor weight or anything else yet, these things are at this point completely irrelevant.

I’m sure the Devs will read your feedback, and give it all the consideration it deserves.

Good luck.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I’m sure the Devs will read your feedback, and give it all the consideration it deserves.

Good luck.

Actually, I think the Devs will read the feedback and be totally astonished that in spite of all their training, their years of working in this and other MMOs and having access to trade magazines and advice from other Devs, that somehow they completely missed how easy it is to make armor using the tools described in this thread. Once the Devs use the information revealed here I confidently expect that from now on a full set of armor will be made each month and all outfits will be converted to armor also.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Actually, I think the Devs will read the feedback and be totally astonished that in spite of all their training, their years of working in this and other MMOs and having access to trade magazines and advice from other Devs, that somehow they completely missed how easy it is to make armor using the tools described in this thread. Once the Devs use the information revealed here I confidently expect that from now on a full set of armor will be made each month and all outfits will be converted to armor also.

No one has ever said it would be easy to make an armor set.

All I am saying is use the work that is already done for the outfit to make an armor set.

I do not know how much work there is to do after you have an already completed static 3d mesh for an armor. I said that numerous times now. But I do know that it takes a considerable amount of time to make that static 3d mesh.

Especially if you have to adjust that 3d mesh for every race/gender combination in the game. But we of course know that these 3d meshes already exist for the outfits.

And then people start with things like rigging, different armor types etc which have nothing at all to do with a static 3d mesh.

Like making an armor out of an static 3d mesh was never done before in this game.

Also you can right now google for GW2 3D models and find numerous models that were imported, exported, converted etc from the gw2 data, 3d models that now use common filextensions like .obj .3ds .ply. .stl, really everything you want. There is even a program called "3D ripper DX " where you can make an 3D ingame “screenshot” of gw2 and then cut out your character, so you get the 3d model of it that way and then you can do whatever you want, even print it out with an 3d printer.
(I would not recommend using third party software)

But people in this thread are acting like there is some sort of forbidden magic involved with a simple static 3d mesh.

If some amateurs can do that I am sure that some devs at anet can do it as well.

I also said that I do not believe that the answer that was given, “it’s too hard to do” was correct. We already know that half of the reasosn were wrong when we were told that armor sets in comparison to outfits need to be made for every race/gender.

I do not believe that we would get the same answer if the question would be about using the existing 3d mesh as starting point to create armorsets. They would probably tell us about different, non technical but gameplay related issues, like an inbalance of choice in armorsets etc

Adenin.5973:

I do not know how much work there is to do after you have an already completed static 3d mesh for an armor. I said that numerous times now. But I do know that it takes a considerable amount of time to make that static 3d mesh.

Especially if you have to adjust that 3d mesh for every race/gender combination in the game. But we of course know that these 3d meshes already exist for the outfits.

And then people start with things like rigging, different armor types etc which have nothing at all to do with a static 3d mesh.

Just a longshot guess here, but I’m assuming the armor the devs create was specifically designed (as well as retouched and altered after testing) to be modular for a specific armor weight. That has everything to do with rigging and things. Creating a 3d asset isn’t likely the majority of the work and you cannot divorce that aspect (the fitting and testing with other armor pieces, changes to accommodate a more polished look, designing the pieces to fit right in the first place so less changes would be necessary) of armor creation from the entire process.

Adenin.5973:

Also you can right now google for GW2 3D models and find numerous models that were imported, exported, converted etc from the gw2 data, 3d models that now use common filextensions like .obj .3ds .ply. .stl, really everything you want. There is even a program called "3D ripper DX " where you can make an 3D ingame “screenshot” of gw2 and then cut out your character, so you get the 3d model of it that way and then you can do whatever you want, even print it out with an 3d printer.
(I would not recommend using third party software)

But people in this thread are acting like there is some sort of forbidden magic involved with a simple static 3d mesh.

I’ve seen some of the 3d printed stuff from games and it’s cool and all, but hardly polished and requires an artist’s touch to fully realize the model. I don’t think people in the thread are acting like there’s forbidden magic involved, just work, and the creation of the 3d model just might not possibly be (and I’m guessing here) that difficult to do. But you seem to think that it is 65-80% of the work. I’m going to guess that making the 3d model is about 25% of the work.

Adenin.5973:

I also said that I do not believe that the answer that was given, “it’s too hard to do” was correct. We already know that half of the reasosn were wrong when we were told that armor sets in comparison to outfits need to be made for every race/gender.

Right, I don’t believe the “too hard to do” answer either because it’s not too hard, it just might not be cost effective or even smart to do because of the amount of work involved. That doesn’t mean it’s too hard…

Leo G.4501:

Adenin.5973:

I also said that I do not believe that the answer that was given, “it’s too hard to do” was correct. We already know that half of the reasosn were wrong when we were told that armor sets in comparison to outfits need to be made for every race/gender.

Right, I don’t believe the “too hard to do” answer either because it’s not too hard, it just might not be cost effective or even smart to do because of the amount of work involved. That doesn’t mean it’s too hard…

Which is why they’ve never said it was “too hard;” they’ve only said it wasn’t cost effective.

Adenin.5973:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Actually, I think the Devs will read the feedback and be totally astonished that in spite of all their training, their years of working in this and other MMOs and having access to trade magazines and advice from other Devs, that somehow they completely missed how easy it is to make armor using the tools described in this thread. Once the Devs use the information revealed here I confidently expect that from now on a full set of armor will be made each month and all outfits will be converted to armor also.

No one has ever said it would be easy to make an armor set.

All I am saying is use the work that is already done for the outfit to make an armor set.

I do not know how much work there is to do after you have an already completed static 3d mesh for an armor. I said that numerous times now. But I do know that it takes a considerable amount of time to make that static 3d mesh.

Especially if you have to adjust that 3d mesh for every race/gender combination in the game. But we of course know that these 3d meshes already exist for the outfits.

And then people start with things like rigging, different armor types etc which have nothing at all to do with a static 3d mesh.

Like making an armor out of an static 3d mesh was never done before in this game.

Also you can right now google for GW2 3D models and find numerous models that were imported, exported, converted etc from the gw2 data, 3d models that now use common filextensions like .obj .3ds .ply. .stl, really everything you want. There is even a program called "3D ripper DX " where you can make an 3D ingame “screenshot” of gw2 and then cut out your character, so you get the 3d model of it that way and then you can do whatever you want, even print it out with an 3d printer.
(I would not recommend using third party software)

But people in this thread are acting like there is some sort of forbidden magic involved with a simple static 3d mesh.

If some amateurs can do that I am sure that some devs at anet can do it as well.

I also said that I do not believe that the answer that was given, “it’s too hard to do” was correct. We already know that half of the reasosn were wrong when we were told that armor sets in comparison to outfits need to be made for every race/gender.

I do not believe that we would get the same answer if the question would be about using the existing 3d mesh as starting point to create armorsets. They would probably tell us about different, non technical but gameplay related issues, like an inbalance of choice in armorsets etc

“No one has ever said it would be easy to make an armor set.”

Actually someone did

“I actually think this is the best practical solution. A single designer could probably pump out at least a ‘new’ converted armor set per week."

Currently a full set of armor takes 9 months. An outfit, much less. They put out a new outfit every few months.

So if they can create an outfit in a few months and convert it to armor a week later then that’s far faster than 9 months, and therefore easy to create armor.

“I also said that I do not believe that the answer that was given, “it’s too hard to do” was correct. We already know that half of the reasosn were wrong when we were told that armor sets in comparison to outfits need to be made for every race/gender".

….We were told but you don’t believe them, the reasons stated were wrong…..

Basically you’re calling them liars or incompetent when you say that the reasons given as to why it takes so long are incorrect. You, who don’t work for the game and probably have never worked for any MMO, know better than the hundreds of Devs who have worked on the game and have decades of experience amongst them on how to do their job.

As Ms Gray said

" With all due respect, unless you’re a developer for GW2 you are not qualified to make a statement about the time needed, difficulty involved, or feasibility of such a feature."

And I’ll believe her before I’ll believe some anonymous poster on whether or not ANet knows what they are doing or the truth as to the stated difficulties in making content or items.